the shizzle => news => Topic started by: Michael1991 on February 09, 2015, 04:29:09 pm
Title: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Michael1991 on February 09, 2015, 04:29:09 pm
Hi
Me and my business partner are really wanting to open up a climbing wall for our local community up here in the north east of England as we have to travel over 10 miles for our nearest wall. We are at the market research stage now and just wanted to get some feedback from you guys, so if you could leave a comment that would be awesome.
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? how many times a week do you climb?
any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: slackline on February 09, 2015, 04:44:19 pm
Use Google Forms (http://www.google.co.uk/forms/about/) to design a survey covering this and more questions. Its a lot easier to then summarise and make sense of the responses than trawling threw posts here.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Sloper on February 09, 2015, 04:51:06 pm
I've no idea about Google forms, I suppose they're some horrid lefty thing ;)
But I'd say ignoring the general market research
1. bouldering walls are a lot faster and cheaper to build (and probably cheaper to insure) 2. bouldering walls can accommodate a >n of paying punters per square foot of floor space, 3. use good holds, good setters and change problems say every 6 weeks. 4. grade everything 4+ 5. make use of your slack times for mums & dads climbing and creche, school groups and so on, have a good cafe (lots of profit opportunities) 6. be realistic about the start up costs.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: tim palmer on February 09, 2015, 05:14:51 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: tomtom on February 09, 2015, 05:24:02 pm
If he's not already messaged you - have a word/dm with oldmanmatt - as he did just this a couple of years back.. I suspect he has a load of really useful advice..
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Sloper on February 09, 2015, 06:01:54 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Will Hunt on February 09, 2015, 08:25:55 pm
Look into what recently happened to The Barn in Crossflatts and make sure you understand the limitations of your lease.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 09, 2015, 08:40:14 pm
I've no idea about Google forms, I suppose they're some horrid lefty thing ;)
But I'd say ignoring the general market research
1. bouldering walls are a lot faster and cheaper to build (and probably cheaper to insure) 2. bouldering walls can accommodate a >n of paying punters per square foot of floor space, 3. use good holds, good setters and change problems say every 6 weeks. 4. grade everything 4+ 5. make use of your slack times for mums & dads climbing and creche, school groups and so on, have a good cafe (lots of profit opportunities) 6. be realistic about the start up costs.
Unfortunately, insuring a Bouldering wall is not cheaper. It tends to be pretty similar. Statistically, you get more injuries at a bouldering wall. Check out the BMC wall managers guide for those stats.
Slopers synopsis is not far off the mark.
We're now entering our third year in Purgatory...
PM me for anything specific and I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Sloper on February 09, 2015, 08:52:38 pm
I'd suggest that the injuries at bouldering walls, if more frequent are much smaller than lead walls are less serious?
In terms of indemnity insurance, I'm responsible for our indemnity insurance (we pay hundreds of k per year) engagement in the right way with the right broker can save you 20-40%, the mutuals are often very poor value and the other thing to consider is who's your claims handler: you don't want someone who pays out because 'its cheaper than fighting' as this will ass fuck you and your renewal premium.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 09, 2015, 08:57:29 pm
Oh yeah, the 10 mile distance is not great.
Unless you are in a large city and you have enough clientele to justify/support multiple walls and even then we're starting to see walls failing.
Remember, a whole bunch of potential customers will probably be just as close to the other wall as they are to you. We have certainly had, umm, issues(?), with certain other walls who are considerably more than 10 miles away and way over 45 mins drive (without traffic).
In truth, though, we took no business away from other walls. We developed our own community.
We do it all for climbers, but you will need the schools/scout groups/Navigators et al.
And birthday parties.
You learn to fix that smile.
Sometimes it really hurts.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: sjw on February 09, 2015, 09:41:40 pm
Out of interest, where in the North East? We regularly travel 35 miles to a climbing wall even though there are a few within a 10 mile radius, simply because it's very good. Personally I'd rather sit in a car for 45 mins to climb on well set problems with a good variety of holds in a nice environment (+good coffee) than, well, the alternatives.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Michael1991 on February 09, 2015, 09:48:31 pm
Cheers for the feedback people, we are focusing on bouldering, and ill definitely look into getting a proper questionnaire together.
sjw - we are looking to try and open it at a local town near where i live called Peterlee, but at the moment we dont have a definite site.
Ill keep people up to date thanks again, and Oldmanmatt i think we will have a couple of questions invading your Pm box over the week if that's cool :)
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: abarro81 on February 09, 2015, 09:58:50 pm
How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? 15min drive, but then I live in Sheffield Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No. I would climb at different walls only if I were somewhere for another reason (e.g. work, seeing family) and it fitted in well. how many times a week do you climb? 5. Usually 2 out 3 in.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: sjw on February 09, 2015, 10:02:20 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: psychomansam on February 10, 2015, 05:29:51 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: tim palmer on February 10, 2015, 06:09:04 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: webbo on February 10, 2015, 06:23:56 pm
I wonder whether Peterlee needs a bouldering centre when Durham is only 14 miles away or is more a case of "let's open a climbing wall that looks a cool way of making a living" :-\
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: benj_d on February 10, 2015, 07:11:58 pm
Peterlee isn't exactly an accessible place. Chester le street would be great, right on the a1. Also, where I live :2thumbsup:
I guess what people have already said is good advice, for me bouldering works best for indoors, need good setters, regular changing, good other facilities such as a quality cafe, climbing space needs to be big enough and angles to vary a lot.
I guess personally I would travel up to 15 miles if it's good. I regularly used climb North East which sadly seems to have come to an end. I use climb newcastle a fair bit. Sometimes durham climbing centre but I think it could be better. Never really climb at either of the sunderland walls, byker church wall or Newton aycliffe.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Sasquatch on February 10, 2015, 07:18:58 pm
RE: Slab vs. steep.
Having gone through periods of both, it depnds on the route setting. Generally I find people follow quality, and if the steep problems are quality, they'll get traffic, if the slabs are quality, they'll get traffic.
Speaking of setting, quality of setting and setting management would be the #1 thing that makes me stick with a gym/be motivated to go/etc.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: a dense loner on February 10, 2015, 10:10:03 pm
I would be willing to travel a minutes walk as long as I could drive there
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: sammo on February 14, 2015, 04:01:57 pm
Without wanting to put you off, I'd say Northeast England is one of the few areas in the UK that's approaching saturation point as far as indoor walls are concerned. I know of at least one excellent facility in the area that's already struggling due to lack of custom.
I haven't lived in the area for years, but if you're based in Peterlee I reckon the following are all within a ~20 mile radius:
Climb Newcastle
The Newcastle Climbing Centre
The Berghaus Wall (Newcastle)
The Sunderland Wall
The Sunderland Climbing Centre
The Durham Climbing Centre
Climb North East (Ferryhill)
Rock Antics (Newton Aycliffe)
The Darlington Dolphin Centre ( :badidea: )
That's a lot of competition (but best of luck if you do decide to go for it).
Northeast Scotland, on the other hand...
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 14, 2015, 06:21:32 pm
Both the residents of that region said they'd rather climb outdoors, but one of the sheep seemed keen...
;D Point taken!
But Aberdeen has a long tradition of climbing, a population of ~220,000 and only 1 "proper" wall (which is good, but has limited bouldering). The nearest alternatives are Dundee (~1 hr), Inverness (2+ hrs) and I reckon the nearest decent bouldering wall is TCA in Glasgow (~3 hrs).
Aberdeen is the only wall I've seen recently operating a one-in-one-out system with people queuing in reception to get in. Having said that, warehouse space is probably prohibitively expensive due to the oil industry, so perhaps still not a great idea.
No shortage of keen "sheep" though!
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: ducko on February 14, 2015, 11:14:47 pm
I travel further than I have to, to climb indoors. The reasons are: Good problems Good atmosphere Good variety in grades/style of problem
Get those two right and imo you'll do well
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Grubes on February 15, 2015, 08:27:18 am
My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.
I usually drive about 20miles away to the depot because I prefer it. I also travel to the works on occassion which takes almost an hour each way.
I would rather travel to a good wall than settle for a close one 10miles is not that far really.
The question you need to ask is what can you do better than everyone else to make people travel to your wall
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: mrjonathanr on February 15, 2015, 09:40:52 am
My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.
I usually drive about 20miles away to the depot because I prefer it. I also travel to the works on occassion which takes almost an hour each way.
I would rather travel to a good wall than settle for a close one 10miles is not that far really.
The question you need to ask is what can you do better than everyone else to make people travel to your wall
Ok.
But why?
What are the other walls doing wrong?
Have you tried talking to the management about it?
As a wall owner, I know that getting feed back is like getting blood from a stone. You tend to hear it third hand, "So and So told thingy that wotsisname said the last Purple set was shite and there was a kid in the building and it really pissed them off and...."
Email the management.
If they have any sense they'll listen to their customers.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 15, 2015, 10:08:15 am
Actually, as an addendum and word of warning to prospective wall developers everywhere...
There are as many opinions on how a wall should be run as there are people who use walls.
You will never make everyone happy.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: moose on February 15, 2015, 11:06:05 am
Actually, as an addendum and word of warning to prospective wall developers everywhere... There are as many opinions on how a wall should be run as there are people who use walls. You will never make everyone happy.
True - personally, for me it's mainly about the climbing - my preference is for steep and crimpy. My ideal bouldering wall would just be a massive series of 20-55 degree boards, set with overlapping circuits of problems in overlapping grade ranges, with a rolling programme of regular resets (each circuit replaced monthly at the minimum). I don't care about plush changing rooms, availability of coffee filtered through civet cat's bowels, or a choice of gluten-free snack-foods. Though a friendly atmosphere, good lighting, and somewhere comfortable and warm to chill during rest breaks is nice. Problem with appeasing someone like me though is that you would go bankrupt - no kids parties, beginners, or any non-misers with a love of treating themselves would ever come!
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: i.munro on February 15, 2015, 01:50:46 pm
My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.
Basically the same deal here. Two new-ish walls within 20 mins of my home and two others within an hour. Currently doing an hour and a half each way round-trip twice a week.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: GraemeA on February 15, 2015, 05:04:28 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that
Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: SA Chris on February 15, 2015, 09:24:48 pm
Both the residents of that region said they'd rather climb outdoors, but one of the sheep seemed keen...
;D Point taken!
But Aberdeen has a long tradition of climbing, a population of ~220,000 and only 1 "proper" wall (which is good, but has limited bouldering). The nearest alternatives are Dundee (~1 hr), Inverness (2+ hrs) and I reckon the nearest decent bouldering wall is TCA in Glasgow (~3 hrs).
Aberdeen is the only wall I've seen recently operating a one-in-one-out system with people queuing in reception to get in. Having said that, warehouse space is probably prohibitively expensive due to the oil industry, so perhaps still not a great idea.
No shortage of keen "sheep" though!
At the current oil price, it may be going for a song soon! But I agree I think Aberdeen could do with a bouldering centre
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Jim on February 15, 2015, 10:21:07 pm
My nearest wall is 1mile from my house and never go there My next nearest wall is 2miles from where I work 5 from where I live I rarely go there.
I usually drive about 20miles away to the depot because I prefer it. I also travel to the works on occassion which takes almost an hour each way.
I would rather travel to a good wall than settle for a close one 10miles is not that far really.
The question you need to ask is what can you do better than everyone else to make people travel to your wall
Wow I wish I had the spare time to make those sort of choices.
Lukily I am equidistant between 2 climbing walls, Stockport & roperace and choose to go to stockport for a number of reasons: 1 its cheaper (for bouldering) 2 I prefer it for bouldering and 3 I know people who climb at Stockport however I do go to roperace very occasionally for a change. At the moment I'm trying to get back into climbing and so am making an extra special effort to try and go once a week.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Grubes on February 16, 2015, 07:31:58 am
Hi Matt The nearest one is a sports centre. They have little interest in the climbing and the building is about to shut. They approached the uni club I some times help out with to bring them back to using that wall. The uni club committee arranged to attend a meeting to discuss the issues on why they changed the wall they attend and the guy at the sports centre. When they arrived the guy they arranged to see had gone home already. The same thing happened the next year so fuck um. The new sports centre opens in april I will try the new wall but depending on how it is run depends on whether I will keep attending (the fact one of the best pubs in the town is next door and the other two best pubs are 5 min walk away might help). I have no plans to approach them again is the wall is shit.
The other close one I wont name. I like the place and have been to a lot and still go occasionally. It is set up aimed very much at beginners. I just don't like the feel of the place and it has too much stuff in a small area even though they have lots of space. The wall is doing well at what it is aimed for but I prefer to go else where so I do.
Have you tried talking to the management about it?
As a wall owner, I know that getting feed back is like getting blood from a stone. You tend to hear it third hand, "So and So told thingy that wotsisname said the last Purple set was shite and there was a kid in the building and it really pissed them off and...."
Email the management.
If they have any sense they'll listen to their customers.
I live in an area with an abundance of walls so I have plenty of choice. If I am not happy with one place I will just go to another wall because it is very easy to do so.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: tomtom on February 16, 2015, 07:55:33 am
Actually, as an addendum and word of warning to prospective wall developers everywhere...
There are as many opinions on how a wall should be run as there are people who use walls.
You will never make everyone happy.
I give feedback.. Normally when its something really easy/obvious that can be changed to make things much better. (ie theres not much point in suggesting they spend £200k on a new cafe etc..!)...
E.G. at Logport wall I have commented (unfavourably) when they moved to using tags to mark problems (rather than groups of colours) ~ I was not alone and this changed.. I've also said when I think there is a good - or a bad set. I think thats probably important for them to feedback to the setters..
At Hull wall I have (in the past) attempted to give feedback to the owner ~ but, in radio parlance, found he was generally set to transmit rather than receive.... I don't go there very often now (unsurprisingly..)
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: smellyfox on February 16, 2015, 09:21:03 pm
Both the residents of that region said they'd rather climb outdoors, but one of the sheep seemed keen...
;D Point taken!
But Aberdeen has a long tradition of climbing, a population of ~220,000 and only 1 "proper" wall (which is good, but has limited bouldering). The nearest alternatives are Dundee (~1 hr), Inverness (2+ hrs) and I reckon the nearest decent bouldering wall is TCA in Glasgow (~3 hrs).
Aberdeen is the only wall I've seen recently operating a one-in-one-out system with people queuing in reception to get in. Having said that, warehouse space is probably prohibitively expensive due to the oil industry, so perhaps still not a great idea.
No shortage of keen "sheep" though!
At the current oil price, it may be going for a song soon! But I agree I think Aberdeen could do with a bouldering centre
What's wrong with the beach leasure centre Chris? :P
:wall: (this emoticon is probably appropriate to answer my own question)
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: tim palmer on February 17, 2015, 04:59:49 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that
Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert
Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: a dense loner on February 17, 2015, 05:49:07 pm
Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 17, 2015, 05:52:01 pm
There are loads. Plenty of people who never climb outside. People who don't see much difference. People who are just starting. Plenty who just need to climb, but can't get outdoors until the weekend/they find a lift/the weather cooperates. People who can't climb outdoors because their disability makes it to dangerous and they need an acre of mat to land on. And on. And on. And that's not counting the Scout/school/ A N Other group..
The training climbers probably account for less than 15% of wall users.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: slackline on February 17, 2015, 05:56:19 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that
Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert
Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?
Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: Sloper on February 17, 2015, 06:20:36 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that
Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert
Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?
Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?
Some Giza could probably do that
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: ben on February 17, 2015, 06:54:19 pm
:off: nice stripes..
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: SA Chris on February 18, 2015, 08:56:45 am
There are loads. Plenty of people who never climb outside. People who don't see much difference. People who are just starting. Plenty who just need to climb, but can't get outdoors until the weekend/they find a lift/the weather cooperates. People who can't climb outdoors because their disability makes it to dangerous and they need an acre of mat to land on. And on. And on. And that's not counting the Scout/school/ A N Other group..
The training climbers probably account for less than 15% of wall users.
But to me almost all of those categories are training, whether it be for general fitness or to keep your eye in for the occasional weekend day when it isn't pissing it down.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: rich d on February 18, 2015, 12:17:58 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that
Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert
Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?
Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?
Some Giza could probably do that
First art deco thread on UKB.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: tomtom on February 18, 2015, 12:32:41 pm
Just a few things we would like to know; How far would you travel to try out a new wall ? depends how good the wall is Do you go on trips around the country trying out different places? No, but if I am in an area for reasons other than climbing I might make an effort to go to a wall if I have heard it is particularly good (well set problems is the most important thing) how many times a week do you climb? indoors twice, outdoors once-twice any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, we really want to make this happen, thanks for reading :)
From a customers point of view I think the most important thing, and I am kind of paraphrasing Sloper here, is make the wall as nice a place to be as possible (nice cafe, reasonably warm in areas, carpeted matting), that way non-climbers will be attracted in and you will generate new, loyal punters which I imagine is how you will have a viable long term proposition.
Obviously well set problems, regularly changed is essential for regular climbers, I would also suggest making the wall predominantly steep as a nice steep wall is better for training plus your occasional punter will enjoy it from the fitness point of view, but I am might be in the minority there.
Steep isn't very good for groups and vertical / blans are really good for technical problems
I am aware of why climbing walls might have slabs in them but I don't think the kind of technique developed by slab climbing indoors is useful and from the walls I frequent slabs are the least climbed on walls. I am referring only to bouldering to walls here.
I disagree steep bouldering walls are not good for groups, most of the groups (adults and kids) I see at walls seem to prefer climbing on the steep walls.
I am not saying I think there is no place for slabs but, as an example off the top of my head, having a huge central area of the wall being occupied by off vertical climbing is not a good thing.
I'm pretty sure the main slab is the most used bit of the Works by both average punters and by groups. You frequently can't even get on it.
I was not thinking of the works actually but I could see why you would think that
Slabs and vert are essential for all types of climbers other than those who are only training. But it is harder to set good stuff on slabs or vert
Who are the climbers who are climbing indoors for a reason other than training?
Can someone merge the entire thread into one big quote?
Some Giza could probably do that
First art deco thread on UKB.
Title: Re: Possible New Indoor Climbing Wall
Post by: fatneck on February 18, 2015, 12:37:11 pm