UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => shootin' the shit => Topic started by: lagerstarfish on July 27, 2014, 11:35:44 am
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Anyone here get synesthesia?
Anyone ever met any climbers who experience synesthesia?
I was wondering what sort of sensations are produced from the specialised vocabulary that climbers use to communicate about their hobby. And how different moves, types of holds or even getting pumped or scared might be experienced.
Any responses involving politics or economics will be met with a blue-green iron fist
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Can you define it please Lagers? - I had a look at Wackypedia and the definitions and examples seemed a little vague...
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I've never had such an experience without having first had a bucket load of drugs, so may not explain this properly
it's where people experience things as/with different (additional?) sensations to what us norms experience
eg. experiencing words/sounds as having their own colours - or possibly taste - or as a tactile sensation
that sort of thing
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Have you ever seen graphic representations of Finite Element Analysis?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/27/ypy6ema7.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/27/e8a2y3a6.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/27/ajymate2.jpg)
I wouldn't admit to ever seeing the world like that. But I know many engineers, who in drunken/Un-guarded moments have admitted such.
I've always suspected that Synesthesia lead to this development anyway. I'd also guess that is more common than admitted. Think of artists that see the world as light and shadow. Or Monet's swathes of colour...
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I was a synesthete until a week before my maths GCSE exam, and my cousin still is. Became instantly better at maths as soon as the synesthaesia stopped. I saw colours associated with words (but they didn't interfere with vision), and at a young age, became quite upset when "Monday" was on a blue piece of paper because "Monday is red".
'Fraid I can't remember the colours associated with climbing as I didn't do som much at that age. Crimp may have been light blue...
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Isn't what you are describing Schizophrenia :w00t:
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Synaesthesia is the subjective experience of swapped sense sensations eg colours having a taste. Baudelaire had a it (Les Correspondances) and it's a recurrent facet of his methodology in his symboliste Les Fleurs du Mal (although it's also very much hand in hand with altered states of awareness from decadent and substance infused living). It's not schizophrenia though, don't think you could accurately describe it as hallucinatory.
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I wasn't really being serious.
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I was a synesthete until a week before my maths GCSE exam, and my cousin still is. Became instantly better at maths as soon as the synesthaesia stopped. I saw colours associated with words (but they didn't interfere with vision), and at a young age, became quite upset when "Monday" was on a blue piece of paper because "Monday is red".
'Fraid I can't remember the colours associated with climbing as I didn't do som much at that age. Crimp may have been light blue...
has your cousin done any climbing? I'd be interested to know what grade numbers/letters combos seem like - is 7A a different colour to 7B.
when I hear "crimp" my fingers hurt, but this may be a learned response
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I was a synesthete until a week before my maths GCSE exam, and my cousin still is. Became instantly better at maths as soon as the synesthaesia stopped. I saw colours associated with words (but they didn't interfere with vision), and at a young age, became quite upset when "Monday" was on a blue piece of paper because "Monday is red".
'Fraid I can't remember the colours associated with climbing as I didn't do som much at that age. Crimp may have been light blue...
has your cousin done any climbing? I'd be interested to know what grade numbers/letters combos seem like - is 7A a different colour to 7B.
when I hear "crimp" my fingers hurt, but this may be a learned response
Surely it's hard to determine whether the entire syndrome is learnt or innate?
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the bit about me and "crimp" was a trivial quip and not really anything to do with synesthesia
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I know, I meant we all exhibit some aspects of this phenomena.
The majority of the population exhibit symptoms of Epilepsy (tics and twitches) from time to time and Petite Mal might be far more common than diagnosis figure may suggest.
I think the major difference between the very common association of colour to certain sounds (we all sing the Blues), emotions and colours, emotions and sounds, simile and metaphor and true Synesthesia is degree?
I don't know if there are common markers between sufferers absent in the "general" population, but I really do see "forces" (actually more subtle than that, more feel) and associate colours with them. I can't tell what is learnt (strategies I have developed, to aide understanding) and what is innate.
I don't recall ever experiencing anything whilst climbing, except when placing gear/rigging belays.
I figure it's quite common, but rarely discussed. If it's viewed as weird or a "defect", then fewer people will admit it. If it is merely a viable learning/observation/survival strategy, which we have evolved to either learn or inherit; then it should be easier to discuss. Does anyone have negative experience of this? I suppose the improvement in Mathematical ability on shedding the behaviour, shows a negative implication to it. Though it also suggests a learnt behaviour, which can be unlearnt?
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I dunno, you're saying it can be conceptual and associative,I always thought synaesthesia was the actual experience of sensory input as completely different phenomena eg visual sounds, or some words would create a specific tangible taste- and consistently. I read an account of someone who used to map his walk to school by the flavours of the street names not by their visual forms, he didn't even know the words but navigated by taste itself.
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I dunno, you're saying it can be conceptual and associative,I always thought synaesthesia was the actual experience of sensory input as completely different phenomena eg visual sounds, or some words would create a specific tangible taste- and consistently. I read an account of someone who used to map his walk to school by the flavours of the street names not by their visual forms, he didn't even know the words but navigated by taste itself.
You're probably right.
Hadn't really thought about it much in years, but a quick trawl through Google seems to give no clear definition. There seem to be some extreme examples though, as well as many people reporting milder versions.
If it is something which exists along a scale, though, it would be difficult to pinpoint the transition from Normal to Synesthete.
Still, idle speculation and not much help to Largers.
The idea that mention of a grade might result in such a response, implies a contextual aspect?
Can you tell us why you asked Lagers?
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Synesthetic language is often used in poetry. Perhaps just spend some time thinking like a poet? What seems strange to me is that you're asking your questions as if there is some absolute answer. It's hugely individual - one synesthete might perceive 7A as scary and black, another as happy and yellow.
I'm not a synesthete (if that's a meaningful classification), but for me 'crimp' would be red or purple.
Why the holy hell are you asking?
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Whenever I see the words poo or shit they smell of Peak Limestone ;)
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Can you tell us why you asked Lagers?
to identify the mutants so we can eliminate them before they take over the world Mainly because I'm always interested in sensations/experiences that people have that I will never be able to experience directly myself.
Everytime I hear someone talking about it on Radio 4, I find it very interesting that they can explain in some detail what happens using words that I understand, but ultimately I know I just won't experience it myself.
Many climbers have motivations and world models that are different to the majority of the communities they live in - I empathise with many climbers on this level. Also, in climbing cultures we use our own variations within language to describe things that aren't easy to explain to those not used to that type of language or the experiences being discussed.
So I thought that I might be able to better understand the synesthetic experience a little better if I could find a climber to talk to me about it - a bit like I trust/relate to reviews on this forum more than reviews that Go Ogle throws up.
also, the only two synesthetes that I do get to chat to have both psychotic disorders and problematic drug and alcohol use
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and for Psychomansam - striving to get a bit closer to "what is it like to be a bat?"
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At the wall I hear people speaking about climbing the blues, greens and reds and "doing it rainbow". Is this what you are talking about?
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Synesthetic language is often used in poetry. Perhaps just spend some time thinking like a poet?
I suppose the improvement in Mathematical ability on shedding the behaviour, shows a negative implication to it. Though it also suggests a learnt behaviour, which can be unlearnt?
- Two sides of the coin. I was particularly good at poetic writing before it stopped (for the English exam :p), and then better at (although still not fantastic at) maths afterwards.
has your cousin done any climbing? I'd be interested to know what grade numbers/letters combos seem like - is 7A a different colour to 7B.
-Sadly not, no help there
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The above post should have quotes all over it, but I got confused about who'd said what :p
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The above post should have quotes all over it, but I got confused about who'd said what :p
My solicitors will be in touch shortly with their demands (get on it Sloper). Perhaps we could avoid the legal fees by meeting with an independent consultant? Mind you, Lagers' fees are through the F'ing roof these days as well.
I know the OP is a pillar of the UKB community, but can I throw my hat in for a log?
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I think this is an interesting subject...
Climbing is one sport where you do have a very close relationship with the media used... the feel of the rock, its temperature, moisture levels.. the 'conditions' are more apparent and important than in many other sports... An intimate relationship with rock I dare to say... (I am being serious..)
So whilst I've not been able to offer a sensible answer - I am interested if people have synesthetic reactions when climbing..
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My solicitors will be in touch shortly with their demands (get on it Sloper). Perhaps we could avoid the legal fees by meeting with an independent consultant? Mind you, Lagers' fees are through the F'ing roof these days as well.
Shit. Not again.
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My solicitors will be in touch shortly with their demands (get on it Sloper). Perhaps we could avoid the legal fees by meeting with an independent consultant? Mind you, Lagers' fees are through the F'ing roof these days as well.
Shit. Not again.
how does that feel?
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My solicitors will be in touch shortly with their demands (get on it Sloper). Perhaps we could avoid the legal fees by meeting with an independent consultant? Mind you, Lagers' fees are through the F'ing roof these days as well.
Shit. Not again.
how does that feel?
salty
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I'm always interested in this subject. It's fascinating... I sometimes wonder whether I have a slight disposition towards it on the hearing/feeling boundary. When I hear some sounds I see and feel shapes that are very real and have quite interesting reactions to some that are difficult to describe in words, not quite purely mental and not quite physical but are pretty consistent in terms of how I feel/think. :-[
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Yoof - did it just suddenly stop out of the blue (no pun intended) or did something happen to make it stop?
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My folks and I were watching a TV programme about this a few years ago, before I'd ever heard of it or realised that not everyone experiences the world like this. I looked at my dad and said 'Wednesday is green' he said 'Wednesday is blue' and my Mum looked like she had just found herself in a room with two complete mutters!
As I have got older I don't notice it as much however I'm not sure if that's because of the fact that I no longer need the colours to interpret how I feel about something. I feel sure it is not LA learned behaviour though.
I am a very visual person and do still associate colours with things and I tend to think in shapes, textures and even temperature. Because so many of these things ate already present in climbing it's possibly not quite so pronounced.
Having said that, 6s are green, 7s are purple (getting darker the higher the number) and 8s are black.
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The thread title reminded me of this:
Masterchef Synesthesia - Swede Mason (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfeyUGZt8nk#ws)
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Having said that, 6s are green, 7s are purple (getting darker the higher the number) and 8s are black.
Nah, 6s are normally red....
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/25/60449456_0299f09de4.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/6kPw1)
Fontainebleau (30/09/2005) (https://flic.kr/p/6kPw1) by slack---line (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
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I've not finished it yet but his is well worth reading on the subject of seeing numbers and other things as colours and shapes..... the guy is amazing:
http://www.danieltammet.net/blue-day.php (http://www.danieltammet.net/blue-day.php)
lagers I have a copy if you want to borrow it some time.
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My folks and I were watching a TV programme about this a few years ago, before I'd ever heard of it or realised that not everyone experiences the world like this. I looked at my dad and said 'Wednesday is green' he said 'Wednesday is blue' and my Mum looked like she had just found herself in a room with two complete mutters!
As I have got older I don't notice it as much however I'm not sure if that's because of the fact that I no longer need the colours to interpret how I feel about something. I feel sure it is not LA learned behaviour though.
I am a very visual person and do still associate colours with things and I tend to think in shapes, textures and even temperature. Because so many of these things ate already present in climbing it's possibly not quite so pronounced.
Having said that, 6s are green, 7s are purple (getting darker the higher the number) and 8s are black.
As I said before, I can't really guess at the learnt/innate split. My mother was an Artist, mainly painting commissioned landscapes and I spent a fair amount of time dragged around various galleries where she was exhibiting. So I was raised with conversation about things like this as a common thing amongst her and her fellow exhibitors (oddly contrasted by my father, being an Engineer turned Copper and slightly more "grounded" ;) ).
So it was quite late in my teens before I realised it was an " unusual" way to talk about the world.
Personally, my hypothesis, is that we all experience it; to varying degrees.
The omnipresence of cultural and linguistic reference, globally, of textural/colour/sound correlations; would seem to suggest that humans perceive the world "holistically" . Black has a texture, when you think of it, as well as a colour. The red mist descends, the blues overcome us, we see things through rose tinted vision, the lovers words were as smooth as silk and smiles glint.
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I've not finished it yet but his is well worth reading on the subject of seeing numbers and other things as colours and shapes..... the guy is amazing:
http://www.danieltammet.net/blue-day.php (http://www.danieltammet.net/blue-day.php)
lagers I have a copy if you want to borrow it some time.
I recall watching a documentary about him a few years ago...
The Boy With The Incredible Brain - Documentary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z22H89rIMHk#ws)
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It's a fascinating subject - t'other half studied it quite a bit as part of her psychology degree.
Regarding poetry & synaesthesia - at one point it became fashionable to be a synaesthete and so many poets/writers adapted the style.
For phrases like the "seeing red", "the green monster", "got the blues" - whilst we all say it/know what it means, does anyone actually feel these colours? Generally not - they're just good metaphors as opposed to synaesthetic feelings.
Anger = Hot = Red
Sad = Cold = Blue
Of note, most people with synaesthesia don't experience the same colours/tastes/smells regarding a word (as someone posted above - "Wednesday is blue" / "Wednesday is green" ) so you wouldn't get (m)any universal statements.
It can be a very strong emotion too - some people can't eat foods because their name evokes such a strong smell or un-pleasant colour.
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For phrases like the "seeing red", "the green monster", "got the blues" - whilst we all say it/know what it means, does anyone actually feel these colours? Generally not - they're just good metaphors as opposed to synaesthetic feelings.
Then you have grammatically correct but non-sensical sentences such as Noam Chomsky's famous Colourless green ideas sleep furiously (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorless_green_ideas_sleep_furiously) (Steve Pinker's The Language Instinct is a very accessible popular science book on the structure of language).
some people can't eat foods because their name evokes such a strong smell or un-pleasant colour.
lagers is already familiar with that... Hákarl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl)
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I remember listening to an interview with a guy who gets taste sensations associated with words and had difficulty dealing with people whose names produced unpleasant tastes
this obviously had an interesting effect on his choice of partners
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this guy
http://blog.wellcome.ac.uk/2011/05/26/the-man-who-can-taste-sounds/ (http://blog.wellcome.ac.uk/2011/05/26/the-man-who-can-taste-sounds/)
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I can't imagine why some people would discriminate against people with this condition. It's like being one of the bloody X-Men!