UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => shootin' the shit => Topic started by: Paul B on February 28, 2014, 01:02:51 pm
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I've just returned from a short ski trip to St. Anton (for anyone in short driving distance of Manc aiport, Monarch + Austrian public transport works really well for not too many FAs, we left early AM and were skiing by early PM) which I enjoyed.
However, I've been going skiing since I was really young (with family and school), usually twice a year until recent years and resort skiing has started to feel a little tame / repetitive. Because of the aforementioned, a lot of that skiing has been on-piste or at best easily accessible couloirs / 'slack country' close to pisted / patrolled runs and powder experience has been highly limited (Utah being the main exception as well as an education).
How do you progress from one to the other? It's worth noting that in climbing, my knowledge of snow conditions or anything wintery is non existent (something I'd like to change for a few routes). Is it just a case of visiting somewhere more difficult with someone who is already competent?
I'm sure as ever UKB will be a pool of knowledge :tumble:
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Next time your in St Anton, save up and book on with these guys, 1 - 5 days.
http://www.pistetopowder.com/our-courses.php (http://www.pistetopowder.com/our-courses.php)
I only did a couple of guided days with them but well worth it, not only do they know the best places (and least tracked out) they are highly knowledgeable. If you did a 5 day course you'd progress a lot.
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Never mind all that, what I want to know is how you manage to afford to be constantly on holiday you bastard P-Ben. :furious:
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Never mind all that, what I want to know is how you manage to afford to be constantly on holiday you bastard P-Ben. :furious:
I'm declining to answer this.
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http://www.jagged-globe.co.uk/ski/offpiste.html (http://www.jagged-globe.co.uk/ski/offpiste.html)
Next winter's programme will be published in May. This year we had Off Piste into weeks in Cham and 3 Valleys, but the programme changes every year.
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Frankly I find the whole avalanche business terrifying. The level of real risk in rock climbing is, I think, very controllable with suitable experience and gear; whereas I totally lack the experience with backcountry snow and I have the impression that even if one has the experience, gear etc, the chance of being randomly wiped out are massively higher than they are on, say, Gogarth.
Nevertheless, snowboarding in powder is a whole lot of fun.
I'm in the fortunate position of having a few mates who are experienced ski tourers who I can go out with and have faith in their ability to keep the level of risk to a minimum. If you haven't, then you need to be extremely careful.
I can recommend Peter Bacher at Rock'n'Snow (http://www.rocknsnow.at/site/startseite.html?L=1) in Zillertal. Did a powder technique course with him in Mayrhofen a couple of years ago and found it excellent, even though I was by far the weakest in the group and totally wasted at the end.
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If you want to venture off piste your options are starting from most risky to least risky;
1) Just do what looks good, and hope for the best, you only live once
2) Read some books / watch some DVDs, buy some kit and go for it. Lots of resorts have "off piste" guidebooks for suggested itineraries.
3) See if you can find a mate who is experienced enough and happy to take you out for a few tours.
4) Hire a guide and put your life into their hands
5) Go on a course and get some instruction and learn a lot of the useful stuff you need to know, then step out on your own.
6) Don't go off piste
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options 4 & 5 (as above), obviously, cost a lot of money?
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Depends how you do it. Going to Alps to do is going to more money than Glenmore Lodge or PYB for example.
http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/ski-touring-courses/ (http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/ski-touring-courses/)
But whatever way its not cheap compared to doing nothing at all.
I did this http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cat-32-ski-touring/course-252-avalanche-navigation-for-skiers/ (http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cat-32-ski-touring/course-252-avalanche-navigation-for-skiers/)
at GL earlier in the year and it was excellent.
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at GL earlier in the year and it was excellent.
Perhaps I'm a snob but I'm really sceptical of Scotland; my earliest memories of skiing involved being there and absolutely hating every minute of it, other Euro venues on the other hand were glorious...
I am relying on: inability to ride snow steep enough to slide, plus not going out much.
As you well know I'm fairly risk averse on the whole, I can't see this turning into a desire to do really outrageous things, simply something more challenging than the OP.
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I'm not sure but what I have noticed is there's a significant difference in my experience to how European and American/Ca resorts deal with trees.
A lot of St. Anton's supposedly harder marked routes were supposedly 'ski tracks', patrolled but not groomed. In reality they were often groomed and were just thinner than your average piste. The off-piste stuff was in severe need of extra snow (you'd have never guess that 20cm dropped just a day or so before we arrived).
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Slightly off-topic, but had a german friend visiting for a few days recently, specifically for backcountry ski-ing ... he was talking about how popular it has now become in Europe. Which is not surprising given: 1. you almost never see a glimpse of a ski resort in the cool-kids' ski and snowboard movies these days 2. the gear guys get to sell a whole lot more stuff 3. after spending time in untracked powder, a well-groomed ski resort seems about as exciting as a trip to a shopping mall. I have been wondering where this is all going, especially as I live done the road from one of the world's biggest resorts. Do resorts respond by grooming less terrain? ... but if they do, will on-piste risk rise unacceptably. Whistler has enough off-piste within the resort for people to die in-bounds ... for example, in a tree well earlier this year and from an avalanche a few years ago. Here in Squamish we have a gondola opening soon which has the overt aim of enabling backcountry access in winter ... there will be no "resort" up there, just a lodge. (Though it will make its big money from the tourist bus tours in summer.)
Read this week's Pique - interesting article/rant on the necessity to open up more terrain in the squampton/whistler area without the obligatory resort/lifestyle guff that is prevalent in whistler.
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at GL earlier in the year and it was excellent.
Perhaps I'm a snob but I'm really sceptical of Scotland; my earliest memories of skiing involved being there and absolutely hating every minute of it, other Euro venues on the other hand were glorious...
So you want to do it cheap, but want fantastic snow as well? Maaaargret?
Snow has been great here the last few years, but the terrain will naver match the Alps. But I'm not suggesting you spend a week up here, you can easily fly, train or drive it up here two do a couple of one or two days courses where you feel you need to improve? Be that touring technique, or navigating in Avalanche terrain.
Then you don't need to waste time on a trip in Europe learning stuff.
A lot of Avalanche safety is now based on the widely accepted Werner Munter 3 x 3 Reduction Method , including this http://sais.gov.uk/be-avalanche-aware.asp (http://sais.gov.uk/be-avalanche-aware.asp) It's worth reading up on this from hundreds of online resources, as well as using the "AviRisk" App to assist with your decision making.
Habrich, when we were in Whistler we did the free Avalanche Awareness course, on a crap weather day (I think it was a Saturday). We were the only people who turned up so we basically had a free instructor / guide for the day. This was the same year of the aforementioned death, and he took us to the site of that avalanche and we had a look at what had happened, when and why.
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At the risk of causing unlucky Alf further harm, after many ski trips to the Alps I would say the chance of you getting to stand at the top of a virgin slope worrying about avalanches is basically nil. In any decent alpine resort any safe terrain will be tracked out by 10am following a dump, which never happens on the one week every five years I'm there anyway. If you are prepared to hike you won't know where to go, so will need a guide anyway. 'Off piste' for the average punter means cutting between pistes on three-week old snow trying to find more than one turn between cutting across others tracks. Avalanche danger=nil. Watch out for cliffs, streams and trees though.
IMHO Scotland is far more dangerous for avalanches due to the wind moving the snow about, and constant temperature changes.
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And the occasional downpour soaking the snowpack before freezing it solid!
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Like all things, experience comes with:
1. Time
2. Education
3. Close calls (aka "learning experiences")
So, how much of 1 do you have, how much are you willing to spend on 2 and how many of 3 are you willing to endure?
Personally, in your case I'd read up a lot, get a shovel, probe and transceiver and learn how to use them and get a guide for a couple of mornings next time you're out. Get the guide to teach you and explain their decisions, as well as showing you the local spots. If you're back in St Anton, Piste to Powder are an excellent organisation. I skied in Greenland with Graham and Franz and can highly recommend them (despite Graham being a Geordie).
Most of my knowledge has come from self-directed learning (there are a million and one resources out there to learn about snow), peer to peer teaching form more experienced friends, some very fortunate free teaching from guides and a lot of experience. Despite all this, I know I will still make mistakes, experts still do (see the guide and clients killed at the start of the season in St Anton) so i defiantly will. However, the rewards for me greatly out weight the risks in my eyes and skiing steep powder slopes is pure joy.
With the shovel, probe and transceiver, when I say learn how to use them I mean really learn how to use them. I've never been caught in an avalanche but have had to find someone. It's really stressful (pretty high up in the most stressful experiences in my life list), the clock is ticking and it's a lot harder than mincing around in the transceiver park. Climbing up and down a steep slope of avalanche debris is tiring; every minute counts so being able to search on automatic whilst also being confident that you know how to probe and the best way to shovel (this also makes a difference) really helps.
If you want, I can dig out some link to online resources and papers when I have a moment (i.e. not on a coffee break at work!)
Oh, and ignore JB, My wife and I have managed virgin powder on the last 4 trips (out of 5). This year we’re taking the 11 month old daughter so I’m having to reign back my ambitions!
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Powderguide-Managing-Avalanche-Tobias-Kurzeder/dp/0972482733 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Powderguide-Managing-Avalanche-Tobias-Kurzeder/dp/0972482733)
Is IMO a really good book on the subject.
One of the things I learned in the course was to start seeing the mountain in traffic light colours as per the avalanche forecast, and choosing your runs accordingly, rather than just seeing "off piste = danger" for the entire mountain.
I've also managed to find amazing "side country" powder on just about every ski trip I've been on, even if it sometimes involves a 10 min walk up to get over the back of a bowl or ridge line. It helps being able to get away from the more popular destination resorts.
And general concensus is do not trust the Snog (that's the Scandanavian O with a line through it) "Avalanche Buddy" in place of a transceiver. It's had warnings issued regards unreliability. Get a decent transceiver, the most up to date one you can afford. And always carry a decent shovel and probe, don't just carry a transceiver so you can be rescued if you get buried, but not have the tools to help someone else out if you need to.
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options 4 & 5 (as above), obviously, cost a lot of money?
A 1 day group avalanche awareness course (with a certified ski guide) would be around €75 and that will make a massive difference. Terrain reading (where dodgy snow is likely to build, where the "terrain traps" are) how to ski safely in groups, how to react if someone is caught (group management, transceiver search, probing, digging etc.).
That said, backcountry skiing/snowboarding is definitely more dangerous than climbing. A guy I skied with twice early this season just died on Mont Buet due to taking a 600m slide down the North Face when a cornice collapsed. even though him and my friend Lorne were 5 metres back form the edge.
I am amazed every time I see another go-pro video of people in the backcountry with no equipment (and therefore no knowledge). That £300 would have been better spent on a transceiver, shovel and probe and another £70 for some basic knowledge is not a huge outlay.
Sorry for the facebook post but tracked != safe : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152004932425095&set=a.473599760094.255652.613425094&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152004932425095&set=a.473599760094.255652.613425094&type=1&theater)
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+ 1 for powderguide, and for getting the proper kit (and knowing how to use it!)
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https://www.thebmc.co.uk/vallee-blanche-crevasse-danger-rescue-video (https://www.thebmc.co.uk/vallee-blanche-crevasse-danger-rescue-video)
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A 1 day group avalanche awareness course (with a certified ski guide) would be around €75 and that will make a massive difference. Terrain reading (where dodgy snow is likely to build, where the "terrain traps" are) how to ski safely in groups, how to react if someone is caught (group management, transceiver search, probing, digging etc.).
That said, backcountry skiing/snowboarding is definitely more dangerous than climbing. A guy I skied with twice early this season just died on Mont Buet due to taking a 600m slide down the North Face when a cornice collapsed. even though him and my friend Lorne were 5 metres back form the edge.
Thanks for all of the advice. The more I look into it the more horror stories I come across.
Two things I noticed with resort skiing (since it'd been a few years) was the prevalence of helmets (it seemed like it was now the exception TO be wearing one) and GoPros!
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When I was working in Colorado I did a lot of tree skiing, where not wearing one is plain daft, verging on suicidal, and just got used to it. Now I feel naked (and cold headed!) without one. But yes, there has been a groundswell of helment use over the last 5 years or so. When you exampine the hazards it makes you wonder why it was ever the norm to go without one.
And go-pros do seem de rigeur, even in Scottish ski areas. Hopefully a lot of it is for personal record, or else there is some very very dull footage ciculating on the internet from folk who can barely link two turns. I guess the same can be said of my go-pro surfing footage!
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+ 1 for powderguide, and for getting the proper kit (and knowing how to use it!)
Proper kit means a modern transciever and a metal shovel btw. Avalanche debris is often hard; I watched my son trying to dig in hard snow with a mate's plastic shovel the other day and it was an eye-opener. Not funny. At all. Metal shovel. Are we clear on this? Good.
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The value of going on a proper backcountry course can't be underestimated. whilst doing guided off piste helps, from experience a good few guides are more interested in doing just that, i.e. guiding. mind you, i have used a few in the past who have also been really good at talking through local conditions and refreshing your memory on terrain traps and the like (one particularly good one was in Serre Chevalier but can't remember his name).
On a personal note there is nothing like practice and experience in terms of becoming familiar with off piste riding or skiing, the problem is finding enough time living in the UK. Even simple things like doing transceiver searches on the day you arrive in resort or as a refresher on an afternoon if you are feeling a bit spent. Better still, bury a transceiver in a pack with a beer or two and use at as a bit of a social amongst a few of you.
I can also recommend incredibly highly a course I went on in Canada with a bloke by the name of Steve Kjuit, who is the lead guide for Island Lake Lodge, so can't really come with better credentials than that. It was a three day classroom and on the hill course, so great mix of theory and field work, slope stability tests, route picking up as well as down, kit prep and maintenance, the full works. Just a bit of a long way to go and not sure he does the courses any more. That said, there has been a lot about the Avalanche Academy in Chamonix of late (http://www.avalancheacademy.com (http://www.avalancheacademy.com)) who look like a good option nearer by.
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Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?
I have the potential opportunity to do this soon (i.e. in the next month) but it'd need to cater to both our needs (and that's if we don't go climbing instead, $$$ certainly suggests that's what we SHOULD do).
Thanks etc.
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could drop Avalanche Academy an email and see if they have any courses running after the one this weekend? May well be doing some later in March and April given their access to high altitude terrain. Chamonix always works well for me, you could maybe stop in Les Houches if the OH needs gentler terrain lessons.
Also some good resources to check out here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=93697 (http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=93697)
I'll have a think if there is anywhere else that comes to mind too
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Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?
I have the potential opportunity to do this soon (i.e. in the next month) but it'd need to cater to both our needs (and that's if we don't go climbing instead, $$$ certainly suggests that's what we SHOULD do).
Thanks etc.
Whistler, obviously - good for both those things.
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Bad for the bank balance though!
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Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?
Most, if not all that I've been to. Every resort has a ski school, so no problems for Nat. You just need to check the off-piste, I would imagine you'd be able to do a day tour with some tuition thrown in anywhere.
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Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?
Most, if not all that I've been to. Every resort has a ski school, so no problems for Nat. You just need to check the off-piste, I would imagine you'd be able to do a day tour with some tuition thrown in anywhere.
Thats a reasonable approach and will give you the most flexibility for sure, just be conscious that you may end up with a guide who just wants to get some mileage in. A proper backcountry avalanche course actually doesn't contain a huge amount of backcountry riding, at least not as much as you might first expect. A lot of time can be spent learning some basic snow science, then looking at route choice, digging and analysing snow pits and doing stability tests etc. This inevitably eats in to downhill time. Thats not to say guides won't do any of this stuff, but I'd go for formal lessons if that is what you are really after.
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Are there any resorts where I'd likely to be able to do a back-country course whilst Nat can be getting (basic) tuition elsewhere?
Most, if not all that I've been to. Every resort has a ski school, so no problems for Nat. You just need to check the off-piste, I would imagine you'd be able to do a day tour with some tuition thrown in anywhere.
That's a reasonable approach and will give you the most flexibility for sure, just be conscious that you may end up with a guide who just wants to get some mileage in. A proper backcountry avalanche course actually doesn't contain a huge amount of backcountry riding, at least not as much as you might first expect. A lot of time can be spent learning some basic snow science, then looking at route choice, digging and analysing snow pits and doing stability tests etc. This inevitably eats in to downhill time. Thats not to say guides won't do any of this stuff, but I'd go for formal lessons if that is what you are really after.
Personally I would avoid any course (unless I wanted to become an avalanche forecaster) that puts too much emphasis on digging snow pits, snow-pack analysis etc. No one I know does this on their typical day out. I dug one the other day because I knew we were planning on continuing up the same angle of snow for 300m to get to a climb and it had snowed a bit recently, but in 3 seasons I've never seen or heard of anyone doing one before skiing. You could easily pick up most of this from books and by going to the the Avalanche Academy free lecture which runs every Tuesday (iirc)
Now, what I feel is important in an avalanche awareness course is practical, useful and quick methods of assessing the snowpack visually and tying this in with the day's avalanche forecast. I.e. how to spot wind loaded slopes, testing small "prone" slopes to see how they react. Tìm Blakemore (an associate of the Avalanche Academy in Chamonix) did a course just like this for us 2 winters ago. If you have time for a 2 or more day course then snow pack assessment might be useful but the first and most important thing is to know how to spot bad slopes, check how they are, ski them safely (group management etc.) and, if worst comes to worst, find a victim and get them out.
If you end up in Cham this season, gimme a shout and I can run you through the basics and/or just show you some fun spots. Chamonix is shit for learning, but my 63 yr old mum had a fun week on the baby slopes, so it is possible.
Alison Culshaw runs a great off-piste clinic clicky here (http://www.offpiste.org.uk/about/)
P.S. if you do choose the "go out with a guide" option. You are paying them, they should do exactly what you ask unless you are in a group session and then, obviously, it will be a bit more "structured".
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Proper kit means a modern transciever and a metal shovel btw. Avalanche debris is often hard; I watched my son trying to dig in hard snow with a mate's plastic shovel the other day and it was an eye-opener. Not funny. At all. Metal shovel. Are we clear on this? Good.
If touring with a mate who has a plastic shovel, all you have to do is swap for your metal shovel in the car park at the start of the trip. Next time they will probably have a metal one too...
Avalanche debris can be like concrete. If you've never skied or walked over one then it's worth having a kick of the stuff a snow plough chucks at the side of the road - moving snow melts then refreezes in lumps that a plastic blade is not going to cut though well.
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Agree with that Fultonius, its all about getting the balance I think though (though my interest in snow science is based on an earth science degree and with some focus on alpine environments so i quite like the detail). Pits are useful as you say if you're on a similar aspect or as a good means of getting a feel for the snowpack in an area at the start of the week (though the internet has made that a whole lot easier). Agree about reading slopes and loading features too, and simple stability tests even with a ski pole really help too, thats what i was kind of getting at (not very well), and trying to recommend avoiding doing a quick 10 minute transceiver search followed by laps off piste (which don't help you learn). Like i said in an earlier post, the longer the course i think the better, gives a chance not to rush things and cover a lot of the subjects in depth (like the course I did in Fernie some years back).
The Chamonix avalanche academy free lectures sound like a good starting point too.
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Alison Culshaw runs a great off-piste clinic clicky here (http://www.offpiste.org.uk/about/)
Definitely the best ski tuition I've had.
The ski performance for mountaineers course is amazing value, it didn't feel like a group lesson - more like being taught individually as part of a group. Failing that then a couple of 1/2 day private lessons are far more valuable than any ESF 'follow me in a big group for the week' tuition.
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If you end up in Cham this season, gimme a shout and I can run you through the basics and/or just show you some fun spots. Chamonix is shit for learning, but my 63 yr old mum had a fun week on the baby slopes, so it is possible.
Thanks although I think it's unlikely that Cham will be our chosen destination. We're still trying to decide where or not skiing or climbing is the way to go.
:devangel:
Currently Alpe D'Huez and Serre Chevalier have some interesting offers on. For the former I found these guys:
http://stance-snow.com/index.htm (http://stance-snow.com/index.htm) (music autoplay).
who seem to be well reviewed.
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I must admit to getting mildly irked every time fresh snow gets automatically called powder, especially here in Scotland.
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I think you and Nat's next trip should be to Niseko, Paul. The right kind of expensive for dual-income young professionals like you two, a moderately interesting cultural tick and for the rest of your life you can annoy people when out ski-ing by saying "they wouldn't really call this powder in Hokkaido".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Funny, I freind of mine just went with his missus for a "trip of a lifetime" and were based in Niseko. They said it gets tracked out faster than Grands Montets (i.e. tracked out at 09:30...) and is rammed full of Aussi-douchebags. They had a much better time at the smaller, less known resorts. Horses for courses I suppose...
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We've booked Alpe D'Huez for the week of the 22nd after the deal we found was reduced further.
I've arranged to be on a course with http://stance-snow.com/ (http://stance-snow.com/) whilst Nat is in Ski School etc. which should be interesting!
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22nd of March? We were just over in Les Deux Alpes and the snow base is good. If you get fresh snow (which is forecast for later in the week) then you should have a great time. Not far to go to La Grave if you fancy a day with a guide at a resort with no pistes! We had a day there earlier this week and, while the snow was totally tracked out, it was still a cool place to ski.
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22nd of March? We were just over in Les Deux Alpes and the snow base is good.
Yup and that's what I like to hear! The 22nd seems like a good week for deals if anyone is looking, the weeks either side are considerably more money! I'm not sure I'll get away with a day trip to La Grave unfortunately.
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I've not been to Alpe D'Huez, but as far as I'm aware there should be plenty to keep you occupied for the week.
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If the stuff off the back of the glacier is open (which it should be) there'll be loads to keep you busy. There's a shabby climbing wall in the sports centre, but don't expect much.
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Looks like there's 40cm or so forecast for Sat (when we arrive)... I'm not going to be putting my climbing boots in, the chalet is fully catered and I intend to eat (and drink) my way to good value for money (which on any ski holiday is a challenge).
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Seriously don't expect much, a bit of traversing? Although it may well have had an upgrade since i was there (in 1989!)
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There is a nice large outdoor pool in the middle of Alpe D'Huez too but don't bother packing shorts, for some reason its speedos only :shrug:
Only spent a week there but from memory its a nice enough resort, big enough to keep you busy. not much tree line skiing though from memory so if the weather gets stuck in its a bit of a white out. And my only other abiding memory was the icy tunnel at the top near the glacier, not much fun on a snowboard
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It turned out the reason this past week was so cheap was that it was European Gay Ski Week, not that it bothered me (in fact if it saves me money I'll seek out Gay ski week next week).
We got back yesterday after perhaps the best week of skiing I've ever had. We arrived to find it snowing (heavily) which continued for two days and although that meant poor visibility (and a difficult start for Nat), it meant that come Tues (when I'd booked for my backcountry day) the snow was magnificent.
As the snow was so good and the guide/instructor (from Stance (http://stance-snow.com/)) clearly didn't want to waste the conditions (they hadn't had snow for a while and the weather had been quite warm) the introduction which covered the transceivers was more than brief.
There was me and three others, two of which were told they couldn't continue after the first section we skied (I was quite shocked that they went solely on a verbal statement of ability, no short section of piste, nothing).
After that we spent a lot of time around the Alpette/Vaujinay area following some of the lines shown here (G to start with):
http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Isere-Drome/Alpe-D-Huez-Grandes-Rousses-Off-Piste (http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Isere-Drome/Alpe-D-Huez-Grandes-Rousses-Off-Piste)
Fantastic. The hire shop were happy to swap my piste ski's (http://www.rossignol.com/PT/PT/radical-9sl-slantnose-ti-ibox_RA2BN01_product_alpine-men-skis.html) for something more suited (http://www.rossignol.com/US/US/soul-7_RACQI01_product_alpine-men-skis-freeride.html). This (obviously) made a huge difference and the feeling of moving fast on fresh powder was amazing.
I'm fairly certain that it's the best money (a whopping 55E) I've spent on skiing, ever. Now, I wouldn't venture out on my own/with friends with my still limited knowledge but the advice on technique made a HUGE difference (coming from mainly skiing pistes) on all types of snow. Also, I'm pretty certain that it's something I now want to pursue. I regret not booking more than one session as they were full for the rest of the week.
Nat also had a great time and progressed really well (it helped that she got a cracking ESF instructor which is always a lottery). On the last day I spent the afternoon taking Nat down all of the blacks that didn't feature moguls (i.e. Tunnel), which she skied comfortably, I didn't even feel the need to babysit.
Thanks for all of the input/advice on this thread.
My leg gave me quite a lot of issues with the hire boots for the first morning so I'll hopefully soon be able to invest in some myself...
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the feeling of moving fast on fresh powder was amazing.
Powder skiing and boarding is dangerously addictive ;D
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Are there any sites (that people can point me to) online or heaven forbid, a book which has information about the off-piste potential in areas/resorts?
On another note, I wonder when I'll first see someone climbing with a counterbalanced pole + GoPro attached to their helmet (there were many of these in France).
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http://pistehors.com/ (http://pistehors.com/)
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Closer to home
http://www.steepscotland.info/index/ (http://www.steepscotland.info/index/)
Gully skiing season is in full swing!
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Closer to home
http://www.steepscotland.info/index/ (http://www.steepscotland.info/index/)
Gully skiing season is in full swing!
Their twitter feed has some stunning shots. I've got the remainder of the week spare?
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This week? It's not that nice weather up here this week unfortunately, have a look at MWIS.
None of the Tweeted pics are that recent unfortunately, go onto the British Backcountry page on FB for more info, back corries at Nevis are in good shape, as are Cairngorm Gullies. Loads of other stuff too, but you will need to walk or bike a bit to get to snow line.
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http://www.editionsvamos.com/index.php?option=com_phpshop&page=shop.browse&category_id=070d66c1b6f2c16fbb1ba245d7aa6815&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=8 (http://www.editionsvamos.com/index.php?option=com_phpshop&page=shop.browse&category_id=070d66c1b6f2c16fbb1ba245d7aa6815&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=8)
Vamos have printed loads of guides covering most major French resort areas but are unfortunately mostly out of print. You can pick up in resort or on eBay mind. They give a general idea of the more obvious routes, just don't expect locals secret knowledge in them.
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not so much a guide (though it does contain trips for each mountain range covered) but a really nice book about the history of north american ski mountaineering;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wild-Snow-American-Alpine-Series/dp/0930410815/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396386438&sr=8-1&keywords=wild+snow (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wild-Snow-American-Alpine-Series/dp/0930410815/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396386438&sr=8-1&keywords=wild+snow)
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I thought I'd update this thread having just returned from St. Anton at the weekend.
Next time your in St Anton, save up and book on with these guys, 1 - 5 days.
http://www.pistetopowder.com/our-courses.php (http://www.pistetopowder.com/our-courses.php)
I did just that for 2 days whilst I was away. Being disorganised helped me this time as a week or so before they had no spaces but randomly emailing them when on a chair lift (from the base of Stuben) watching people smash through a load of trees paid off and I ended up with a whole day with P2P after 2 days of fresh snowfall (115E) and another day later in the week (where we walked quite a bit to find better snow).
I also lucked out by getting my hire shops mixed up. I meant to book with Fauner who I used last year but instead ended up with Alber. Alber also have Alber freeride and the guys in there were very happy to spend time chatting about various skis and swapping them out for me simply becaused I'd paid and I might as well.
I ended up with a set of Rossignol Super 7s on the first day off-piste and I was completely blown away by how good they were not only off piste but on as well. Ok, they weren't perfect but compared to the Atomics I had later on in the week they were much much better. Later on in the week the snow was less good so I opted for the Soul 7s and once again I was blown away (but not quite as much). This made me realise just how much ski tech has come on since the first pair of 'fat' skis I tried (Salomon Pocket Rockets) some time ago. They flapped around like mad at any kind of speed and that issue seems to be long gone. Allegedily the S7 series suit a lighter rider.
P2P were great (I had Buckhard both days, what a name!). However, like it has been said here, given it was an open group it was more of a follow-me type day(s) rather than learning about the snow/group management/tranceiver usage. Last years day with Stance seemed to have helped a tonne with my techinque and I realised just how spoilt I've been over the years with the hours of tuition I've recieved.
Once again it confirmed that for me, I need to do this to maintain interest in skiing. The first few days were speant on-piste and I was worryingly bored.
I'm now going to order the book recommended on page 1 and next time aim to do more of an avalannche awareness/snow knowledge type day/course. Also, I once again failed to make to the free tranceiver course, this needs rectifying.
Nat is also enjoying it (a lot actually) and progressing well. She's now pretty confident on-piste but needs to learn how to go about moving faster in general and then we can consider seeing if she too fancies learning off-piste too. I'd image the best plan for this is to go to the USA/Canada.
Ta for all of the beta.
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Glad you had a good trip, with the state of the snowpack at the moment having a guide was probably the way to go!
I've got a pair of Soul 7s, the ultimate punter ski! Very easy to ski though floppy in crud or at any kind of real pace.
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I'm now going to order the book recommended on page 1 and next time aim to do more of an avalannche awareness/snow knowledge type day/course. Also, I once again failed to make to the free tranceiver course, this needs rectifying.
Paul, you could do much worse than to read this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Avalanche-Essentials-System-Safety-Survival/dp/1594857172 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Avalanche-Essentials-System-Safety-Survival/dp/1594857172)
It's a lighter weight more focused version of his more well known book "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain". It's very good. :thumbsup:
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Glad you had a good trip, with the state of the snowpack at the moment having a guide was probably the way to go!
I've got a pair of Soul 7s, the ultimate punter ski! Very easy to ski though floppy in crud or at any kind of real pace.
I couldn't tell if the reason I preferred the Supers was down to the ski or the improved conditions the day I had them, either way both were very enjoyable.
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It's always hard to tell unless you're out skiing all the time. The Supers have more ommph off piste as they are wider and a bit stiffer but are less playful on the piste. I would imagine they would have given you more confidence when going for it as they'd be more stable.
My Souls are set up as a touring ski as I don't do enough anymore to warrant more than one set so I need (well, want, I don't actually need skis anymore) something for every occasion.
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What's the wisdom these days regarding kit? It cost me 220E / week / person to hire skis and boots. Now I know there's maintenance and transport but at those prices your own equipment is looking like a fairly favourable option?
Boots are a definite purchase. My right shin is pretty fussy after I broke it and is a little sore still from the past week.
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What's the wisdom these days regarding kit? It cost me 220E / week / person to hire skis and boots. Now I know there's maintenance and transport but at those prices your own equipment is looking like a fairly favourable option?
Boots are a definite purchase. My right shin is pretty fussy after I broke it and is a little sore still from the past week.
I recon - if you go every year its borderline buy/rent... if you go less frequently rent - more buy....
+ves of buying are you have your comfy kit that you are used to/works - but it gets old/knackered/broken/untrendy etc.. if you break it or lose it ££ or insurance etc..
+ves of renting are you get new season kit (never had old shonky ski hire stuff - always this season), you can often chop and change kit during the hire (ie for me try different length/stiffness boards) if something doesnt work/or for curiosity, if you break/lose etc.. something its just your deposit that disappears - but it can cost a bit (yours seemed a bit pricey Paul) and you may not get the boots (especially) that you've worn in etc.. blah blah..
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PS - I am a punter who goes on average every 30 months... but used to go annually with a mate who bought his own kit (largely spend in the attic) and I've always rented..
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yours seemed a bit pricey Paul) and you may not get the boots (especially) that you've worn in etc.. blah blah..
Tell me about it. I did a lot of digging around even contacting the people I used last year and they basically all said they were the same price and they'd do no further discount. I got an intersport 50% of voucher sat in the departure lounge. :wall:
Interestingly I used a comparison website for insurance this time (cover seemed good, cost was relatively low) as Snowcard seemed expensive and The BMC were 50% more than Snowcard.
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I think the most difficult part is the boots. Rental boots are always going to be fairly wide and comfy, so unless you have a lucky foot shape that fits a typical rental boot, you're going to be slopping around too much. You probably won't really notice for the first three or so days of your holiday.
So - "buy boots" but then, ahhh, you need to get them fitted. If you're serious on buying boots the best thing to do is set aside one holiday as your "let's get the boots to fit" holiday. Book an appointment with a good bootfitter and be prepared to be in 2 or 3 times during the week to them just right. Then you're sorted for the next 5 years! You could try and get some fitted in the UK, but it's hard to know which bits are too tight or loose when not skiing them.
Skis / bindings - that's the easy bit as when you know what you like you can search around and get a good deal on the likes of Sport Conrad - my mate just bought an Atomic Automatic 102 after skiing them for a week for about £300 (he's a mid level holiday punter so they suited him well).
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I want to be able to tour and head out in the Peak/up to Scotland - that's my excuse for my indulgence so I'm sticking with it!
For alpine kit:
Boots - Buy, always. Boot technology doesn't change and your boots will last, you can even get new liners if required. Having your own set of decent well fitting boots makes the world of difference to your skiing.
Ski - Rent. You can swap skis to suit conditions and can always get "the next best thing".
Arlberg is always espensive to rent but the booze is cheaper than, say, France. You just have to drink enough to make the steep hire prices seem worth it!
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If you drive over - you can always rent in the UK? or places other than the resort?
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I've got a pair of Soul 7s, the ultimate punter ski!
No more Beta Rides?
If you are more inclined towards off piste / touring stuff it's worth looking at a touring boot / set up. Bit more expense initially, but cheaper in the long run if you eventually end up going down that route anyway.
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I've got a pair of Soul 7s, the ultimate punter ski!
No more Beta Rides?
If you are more inclined towards off piste / touring stuff it's worth looking at a touring boot / set up. Bit more expense initially, but cheaper in the long run if you eventually end up going down that route anyway.
Agree here, been on a touring set up virtually all season (broke my piste ski in Dec) and I can't tell much difference on piste (binding and boot wise) Got Scarpa Freedom SL which are at the heavy end of touring boots but perform really well (you can get an Alpine sole as well the Tech one for an extra £30) they have a great walk mode and have toured in them a bunch and they are fine if a little heavy then (my whole touring set up is on the heavy side!) Got the Tyrollia frame touring bindings which are pretty good - not felt the same issue with lean as on the Fritshi bindings and the whole transition into tour/ski mode is really simple.
Demoed a few diff skis this year and would recommend going with something you have tried and like, huge difference in how things feel and ski (although if you are feeling flush I demoed the dps Wailer 112 in the new touring construction which was amazing - ski really well for such a light ski but they are ££££)
Enjoy
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I've got a pair of Soul 7s, the ultimate punter ski!
No more Beta Rides?
Still in the loft but gathering dust. Souls and Markers now........
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I need to shop for some new skis soon, my 12 year old skis are exactly the same colour as my 12 week old touring boots, looks like it was deliberate ;)
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Does anybody on here have 1st hand experience of any guiding outfits in Les Arcs? I failed to book in time to get on one of Alison Culshaws' courses this year.
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My brother's sister in law lives there, I can see if she recommends anyone.
For when?
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25/3 for a week (conditions allowing obv.). I'm only after a day or so.
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PM sent