UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => get involved: access, environment, BMC => Topic started by: groovedog on January 29, 2013, 09:51:29 pm
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found this on the other channel, haven't seen it myself but doesn't sound good.... fontainebleau madman?
"I imagine very few people have been in the Cratcliffe area recently, which presumably masked the activities of some maniac... Walking round today, I saw the following: Left Arete at Cratcliffe Top Boulders hacked all the way up its top two thirds, holds under Razor Roof bashed off, Scopp knocked about and at Robin Hood's, assorted chippings on problems which I can't immediately identify from the BMC guide. All in all a lot of irreparable damage, which is tragic."
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=536650 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=536650)
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Fucking Pointless.
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http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=536650 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=536650)
Anyone know anything more?
edit: apologies, missed the thread here: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,21522.msg393358.html#new (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,21522.msg393358.html#new)
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I'll try to pop by with camera tomorrow.
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:'( Not again! Why always here?
Scopp knocked about
Don't understand.
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found this on the other channel, haven't seen it myself but doesn't sound good.... fontainebleau madman?
"I imagine very few people have been in the Cratcliffe area recently, which presumably masked the activities of some maniac... Walking round today, I saw the following: Left Arete at Cratcliffe Top Boulders hacked all the way up its top two thirds, holds under Razor Roof bashed off, Scopp knocked about and at Robin Hood's, assorted chippings on problems which I can't immediately identify from the BMC guide. All in all a lot of irreparable damage, which is tragic."
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=536650 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=536650)
Sounds shit. Also sounds like one of us has done this :shrug:
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"us"? :shrug:
Not sure anyone on this forum would do such a thing. :-\
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Probably most likely random chav knobheads or a landowner with a grudge against climbers?
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"us"? :shrug:
Not sure anyone on this forum would do such a thing. :-\
us - 'the climbing fraternity' .........
Chipping the holds off something like Razor Roof doesn't sound like chavs
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Chipping holds off of known problems doesn't sound like the action of anyone from the "climbing fraternity".
However, I could envisage random knobheads/bored wankers wandering around and seeing rocks with chalk/clean patches and thinking they'd make for good target practice.
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What do u mean? Someone standing upright and easily knocking off holds above their heads in a cave sounds like a climber?
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What do u mean? Someone standing upright and easily knocking off holds above their heads in a cave sounds like a climber?
Fair comment, your probably right, although there is precedent in font with a disillusioned bonker climber.
From the description that multiple problems, from ribs to roof's had been done it sounded like someone who knew about routes had done it, especially as we've just had the weather perfect for some bored ignorant people with axes.
Upon reflection I agree with you, it would be extremely unlikely
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A climber with a grudge would surely smashed in a more methodically malicious way
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It's absolutely mindless behaviour, it must be some climbers who have done it though, it's not exactly a spot where you would find chavs hanging about. Very sad :(
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Seem to have the same discussion every time this happens. Was/wasn’t it a climber. Like I say, I think not. The damage suggests it might be someone who doesn’t like climbers, but can’t tell one prob/hold from the next i.e a none-climber. Ultimately though, what difference does it make?
Time has shown that for all the weeping and gnashing of teeth we can’t stop this and we never find the culprits. This will keep happening on a random basis every now and then, and not for lack of ‘education’ on the matter. Is it perhaps time we starting talking about how best to mend damage? It worked on Hairless Heart. They may not be perfect restorations but at least it wont be another set of open scars. Also maybe climbers are the best people to make a habit of routinely filling stupid graffiti on the crag more generally?
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A climber with a grudge would surely smash crucial holds off classics (like the font loon did) e.g. they target T-Crack, Jerry's Trav or Jerry's arete.
Shhhhhh! Don't give them any ideas! ;)
It's absolutely mindless behaviour, it must be some climbers who have done it though, it's not exactly a spot where you would find chavs hanging about. Very sad :(
I'm sure you've been there before?!? :whistle: ;) :-*
(seem to remember you spent an hour filling a carrier bag with mind altering fungi....)
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Is it possible as mentioned above that bits of rock covered with chalk on them were targeted? No reason it can't be some non-climbing chavvy vandals; they have cars (usually shit ones, but still) and legs just like anyone else and seem to like fucking up remote places just as much as urban ones.
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In the same vein as the recent traps being set for mountain bikers could this not be the work of disgruntled walker/s, tired of guffawing apes ruining their piece of peace?
Ultimately though, what difference does it make?
Time has shown that for all the weeping and gnashing of teeth we can’t stop this and we never find the culprits.
true dat
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I haven't seen the damage but from comments on here and the other channel it does sound deliberate. Such a shame that people with a grudge take out their frustrations on, not just an inanimate object, but also on the kids of the future who miss out on a right good diversion from the shit life throws at you.
On a personal level im totally gutted as razor roof was still on the to do list, got distracted by five finger exercise last time i was there; so all i can say is :wank:
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Is Razor roof now totally unclimbable or just mega hard???? Either way...... BASTARDS!!!!!!!! Great route ruined!!!
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Haven't seen it but the OP say holds under the roof damaged. In which case it will probably have minor effect on the grade as this is the easy bit and there are various holds to choose from.
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I took some photos earlier, posted on my blog here (http://wiltreasure.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/cratcliffe-and-robin-hoods-stride.html).
Razor Roof looked like it would climb at the same grade. The damage has left a real mess at both venues and the newly exposed rock is incredibly crumbly.
I don't know how you'd go about repairing the aretes that have been damaged, but if there's a good way to stabilise the surface of the rock that would go some way to mitigating the damage.
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Is it possible as mentioned above that bits of rock covered with chalk on them were targeted?
There's some truth in that, although obviously caked things i.e. T Crack and Jerry's Traverse were unaffected and lots of relatively unchalked stuff was.
I wonder what effect the existing chips have on Joe public's perception of climbers?
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That's far worse than I was imagining it was going to be!, absolutely fucking disgusting.
They need shooting! :furious:
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I took some photos earlier, posted on my blog here (http://wiltreasure.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/cratcliffe-and-robin-hoods-stride.html).
Razor Roof looked like it would climb at the same grade. The damage has left a real mess at both venues and the newly exposed rock is incredibly crumbly.
I don't know how you'd go about repairing the aretes that have been damaged, but if there's a good way to stabilise the surface of the rock that would go some way to mitigating the damage.
Thanks for posting.
As someone said earlier it doesn;t change who did it, but actually looking at the areas and holds they've done, I still don't see it being chav, or aggrieved walker. its more likely to be some kind of idiot who has some kind of climbing awareness.
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Jesus that's bad. Looking at the circular nature of the impacts, looks like its been done with a hammer with a rounded ball type head (ball pein the right name?)
I'd suspect its not someone who could climb much (as none of the marks are that high up - ie reachable from the ground) suggesting a non climber...but clearly targeted at spoiling climbs, as they are directed at holds (that look like they were mostly chalked).
Crazy stuff. Why would someone do that? Those fresh scars need stabilising before getting any worse or getting covered with fresh chalk.. Arsehole(s) did this..
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Well done for taking the pics btw. Good effort.
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Thanks for those photo's Wil. Can we have permission to show them at the next Peak area meeting? Of course someone was bashing Joes Slab at Froggatt not so long back as well.
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I took some photos earlier, posted on my blog here (http://wiltreasure.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/cratcliffe-and-robin-hoods-stride.html).
Razor Roof looked like it would climb at the same grade. The damage has left a real mess at both venues and the newly exposed rock is incredibly crumbly.
I don't know how you'd go about repairing the aretes that have been damaged, but if there's a good way to stabilise the surface of the rock that would go some way to mitigating the damage.
Your blog mentions the prob left of Kaluza Klien. Do you mean the slab (Dry Wit) or the arete of the next block (Grizzly Arete)?
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Thanks for those photo's Wil. Can we have permission to show them at the next Peak area meeting? Of course someone was bashing Joes Slab at Froggatt not so long back as well.
Yes no problem. I'll probably be there as well.
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Your blog mentions the prob left of Kaluza Klien. Do you mean the slab (Dry Wit) or the arete of the next block (Grizzly Arete)?
Looking my my guide it would be The Growler, or next to the Growler. The left end of that wall with a big hueco undercut which was damaged. It wouldn't affect the problem here I don't think as the chip was on the outside rather than in the undercut.
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:furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:
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fucking disgrace
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from the pics does this make the problem 'RZA Roof' unclimable then? looks like a crimp smashed off
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from the pics does this make the problem 'RZA Roof' unclimable then?
Is that the one which traverses into the finish of Razor Roof? If so...I'd hesitate to say unclimbable, but it would be significantly harder at least. :(
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from the pics does this make the problem 'RZA Roof' unclimable then? looks like a crimp smashed off
Thankfully my beta is unaffected. Small blessings etc. Not sure about the reverse one, could have lost a foothold.
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:furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:
:agree:
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Wow, those pictures are really shocking. Clearly someone targeting climbers, but with very little knowledge of what they are about. I daresay we could work out their approx height if we wanted...
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Doesn't this look like more "i've bought these shiny new axes & I'm going to try them" ?
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Doesn't this look like more "i've bought these shiny new axes & I'm going to try them" ?
By smashing the shit out of a gently sloping arete? Its some twat with a hammer..
The Arete is the worst one for me.. never mind the climbing it just makes the rock look so ugly and hurt.. - scarred - defaced.
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Doesn't this look like more "i've bought these shiny new axes & I'm going to try them" ?
In a word, no.
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I bow to your expertise
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:'(
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guessing the land owner has been informed... dont want them thinking its climbers wrecking the place.
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guessing the land owner has been informed... dont want them thinking its climbers wrecking the place.
good point
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It is in progress...
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longshot but would putting up a sign saying 'dont smash up the rock' at the entrance to sites like this be of any use... cos that could help protect against random people with no idea doing damage.... bit of education as people enter on how to treat the area respectully. i know this wouldnt stop mallicious damage...
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I can't see such a sign dissuading someone with a grudge against climbers as appears plausible in this case. Infact it might give such people ideas...
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:agree: Surely part of the reason crags like RHS get chipped is because the existing damage highlights the chippability. A sign mentioning the possibility can only add to this suggestion.
It makes me think of when councils replace smashed bus shelters/ school windows etc. with an opaque alternative. It's often just as easily shatterable but it gets smashed less often because its appearance doesn't so easily call to mind that option.
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i did say that it wouldnt work on mallicious people and maybe it would give people ideas... i was thinking of educating people who just turn up for a walk and see a rock on the floor and think 'throwing this is a good idea'. thats obviously not what has happened in this scenario though... the other option is do nothing...
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Dropped in for a quick look today. Was with little one so couldn't do much stabilising but I did manage to tidy up some of them and seal a couple (crimp on Razor Roof and sloper/crimp on RHS hard slab).
It looks like all the probs on Razor Roof will be made harder by this chipping. Gaining the holds over the lip on the left arete prob and RR itself will be harder, RZA roof might have to use a different sequence and might now be a bit contrived. I'd guess at everything going up a grade.
The chipping near Kaluza is on The Kid. A mess but don't think it will change the prob much. Though the undercut looks a bit less stable than it was and might fall off one day.
Didn't spot any chips other than the ones already found by others, but didn't check everything.
It may well be totally unrelated but I noticed that some of the wall next to the stile near Razor Roof has fallen down (looks pretty recent). Maybe the farmer saw this, attributed it to climbers and decided to get his own back. :shrug:
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Maybe the farmer saw this, attributed it to climbers and decided to get his own back. :shrug:
Must admit a farmer who's maybe had enough of folk damaging walls, gates, paths, disturbing livestock, etc., did cross my mind as a possible cuplrit. Otherwise, an older local who can remember it as a nice quiet spot before all the climbers came and ruined it.. Obviously nothing to base these guesses on though.
Most of the boulders you'd come across on a random stroll around the area but The Kid and especially the Cave take a bit of getting to so the fact someone's gone out of their way to damage these suggests to me it's action against climbers.
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Dropped in for a quick look today. Was with little one so couldn't do much stabilising but I did manage to tidy up some of them and seal a couple (crimp on Razor Roof and sloper/crimp on RHS hard slab).
It looks like all the probs on Razor Roof will be made harder by this chipping. Gaining the holds over the lip on the left arete prob and RR itself will be harder, RZA roof might have to use a different sequence and might now be a bit contrived. I'd guess at everything going up a grade.
The chipping near Kaluza is on The Kid. A mess but don't think it will change the prob much. Though the undercut looks a bit less stable than it was and might fall off one day.
Didn't spot any chips other than the ones already found by others, but didn't check everything.
It may well be totally unrelated but I noticed that some of the wall next to the stile near Razor Roof has fallen down (looks pretty recent). Maybe the farmer saw this, attributed it to climbers and decided to get his own back. :shrug:
hang on then, whats actually been damaged on the RR block - I thought it was that hold under the roof (near RR and the left arete) that only umpalumpas use, and one of the crimps over on the right side?
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From the pics it looks like the good crimp just underneath the roof on Razor Roof has been chipped off, it wouldn't make a difference to anyone of average height upwards but for shorter than that it was pretty useful, it was also important for setting up on the left arete problem.
Got to say I'm really gutted about all this, been climbing at the stride and cratcliffe for years, it's such a shame, the pics of that arete are heartbreaking!!!
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Got to say I'm really gutted about all this, been climbing at the stride and cratcliffe for years, it's such a shame, the pics of that arete are heartbreaking!!!
yeah - thinking about it more, I just don't get the arete destruction. Chalky holds under a roof/in a cave are obviously going to annoy climbers, but probably dont dent the overall aesthetic so much. So, if I could see that happening to piss off climbers.
Mullahing the shit out of that lovely clean arete - right out in the open - leaves a horrible scar that surely no one with any sort of love for the countryside would want to see (that includes farmers, walkers, landowners etc..).
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Mullahing the shit out of that lovely clean arete - right out in the open - leaves a horrible scar that surely no one with any sort of love for the countryside would want to see (that includes farmers, walkers, landowners etc..).
Its very hard to understand isn't it? I can't see how anyone who could do that could have any level of respect for the countryside whatsoever. Just a really nasty piece of vandalism.
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Dropped in for a quick look today. Was with little one so couldn't do much stabilising but I did manage to tidy up some of them and seal a couple (crimp on Razor Roof and sloper/crimp on RHS hard slab).
It looks like all the probs on Razor Roof will be made harder by this chipping. Gaining the holds over the lip on the left arete prob and RR itself will be harder, RZA roof might have to use a different sequence and might now be a bit contrived. I'd guess at everything going up a grade.
The chipping near Kaluza is on The Kid. A mess but don't think it will change the prob much. Though the undercut looks a bit less stable than it was and might fall off one day.
Didn't spot any chips other than the ones already found by others, but didn't check everything.
It may well be totally unrelated but I noticed that some of the wall next to the stile near Razor Roof has fallen down (looks pretty recent). Maybe the farmer saw this, attributed it to climbers and decided to get his own back. :shrug:
hang on then, whats actually been damaged on the RR block - I thought it was that hold under the roof (near RR and the left arete) that only umpalumpas use, and one of the crimps over on the right side?
On RR two damaged handholds and some minor damage to a foothold. It's ages since it did RR or the arete but I think the two handholds where key holds on it. Looked harder to me but I could be wrong.
The main crimp on RZA roof chipped off. What's left might be useable but I think another sequence will probably now be easier.
All very horrible. What's worse is the feeling whoever did it could turn up and do the same tomorrow.
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Makes you wonder how it's possible at such a popular place. Middle of the night? While pissing it down?
Horrible.
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Exactly, the wrong time of year - not exactly a warm summers evening when you might expect some pissed up yoofs to be aimlessly wandering around etc..
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What's worse is the feeling whoever did it could turn up and do the same tomorrow...
...at another world class gritstone bouldering venue :ohmy:
:wank:
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I just can't begin to get my head round this one at all. The damage seems too severe to have been done by climbers but why would anyone bother with the time and effort to do this otherwise, I can only imagine it's youths or scallwags or hooligans or worse all three working together.
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You're forgetting about hoodlums, tearaways, and punk kids.
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I get the horrible feeling that whoever did this is sitting at home reading forums such as this and feeling content that they've got exactly the reaction they were looking for.
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Had a look yesterday before watching the rugby at a mates house in Matlock. As well as the areas described on the hanging arete forming the right of Diamond slab. A few people had been checking for other damage but hadn't found anything other than these as yet. Aside from the rock damage, part of the wooden fence is broken next to the approach stile to middle cratcliffe from below.
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whats the time spacing between this and the damage to joe's slab? Maybe we all need to be a bit extra vigilant over the coming weeks, this looks to be escalating :-\
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Reclimbed the things on Razor Roof today. I don't think the chips make any difference to RR for my height but I think short folk will find it harder. The left arete is unchanged. RZA Roof is a bit harder, worth 7b now I think.
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:o :'(