UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: cheque on January 24, 2011, 05:29:20 pm
-
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1388483/david-lama-and-cerro-torre-again (http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1388483/david-lama-and-cerro-torre-again) :(
-
Complete :wank:
It has come out today that Lama and crew plan to climb to the top of Cerro Torre following Maestri's bolt line, then rappel from the top and rappel-bolt the best line for free climbing. Lama claims that this is the only way in which he will be able to complete the project within the next 5 years. He also says he can take the sh#t storm that is sure to ensue.
Does he not understand that the reason there is a shitstorm is because his tactics are totally against the spirit of that region. Someone needs to show him this picture:
(http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/Garibotti_traverse_004_200.jpg)
He's ruining the route. I'm amazed that Red Bull haven't seen the shitstorm and pulled out. Does he not see the logic that this isn't an improvement on the original aid ascent.
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
Very surprised that Mammut haven't dropped him.
-
A little more indepth on Colin Haley's Blog (http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011/01/cerro-torre-david-lama-and-redbull.html)
Maybe we should organise some sort of mass email to Red Bull, and Mammut, suggesting that his plans are a complete disgrace, and that they should force him to rethink them?
-
What a weapons grade weapon.
-
For years Mammut have worked to be a respected brand. The recent farce of their proteam visit, the ensuing much ridiculed
film collection of clips and their significant sponsorship of David Lama's apparent lack of awareness or climbing skill looks like a potential marketing disaster. At least here in the UK.
Personally I feel his actions are a disgrace and will bedevil him for the rest of his career. At least he's being honest about being an egotistical vandal and not wrapping it up in some pathetic pseudoexcuse of minimising impact. I'd rather he'd stayed at home and learned to be a better climber though.
Maybe Mammut and Red Bull should sponsor a lunch and a chat with Reinhold Messner for him and their sponsorship execs?
-
Link to a petition created by supertopo:
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_david_lamas_sponsors_to_stop_their_support_of_his_bolting_actions_on_cerro_torre (http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_david_lamas_sponsors_to_stop_their_support_of_his_bolting_actions_on_cerro_torre)
-
This whole thing is such a crock from a climbing point of view, I can only surmise that RB are paying him A LOT to make this film. Why else would he be acting like such an arrogant prick?
-
Almost tempted enough to start buying Red Bull so I can stop buying it in protest.
Cunts. No other word for it.
-
Presumably he really wants to keep his Red Bull sponsorship (I guess it pays far better than climbing gear companies) and so he has a bit of a dilemma: back down on the Cerro Torre nonsense and probably lose credibility with them or see the thing through to the bitter end and hope that it somehow unexpectedly works out OK for him.
He admitted wrong doing in his last statement on the matter yet he's going down the same path? Regardless of sponsership I'm struggling to see this as Red Bull pulling all of the strings. He's well aware of whats going on and of the general opinion about the matter. Saying things like "I can take it" smacks of arogance and ignorance combined.
Whilst the Mammut pro team climbed some big name routes (a lot of) during their UK trip, they all failed to note the shift in local ethics and attempt to improve on the best style already achieved (to the best of my knowledge). Plus they left a mess, even if they did pay someone to clean it up for them.
There seems to be a pattern to me.
-
I am not very up on alpine climbing so heres my questions.
Am I right in thinking the arguement was always whether the bolts should be removed?
At a talk given by kevin thaw over the summer he was asked (by ken wilson I think) if he would be willing to remove the bolts on the compressor route and said he would if he was asked. He did say he would gauge the opinion of the climbing community first.
Do you need a permit to climb/film in patagoina? If so would it be a more worthwhile to approach the people giving the permits out to try and revoke his permits.
-
When I went (a few years back now) there was no permit system in the Fitz Roy region. Things have changed though, as they shut the high climbers' camps a few years back. I suspect if there is one it won't be rigidly enforced, Chalten is a small town now and there are a good few paths up into the hills.
Paine is very different, being in a different country n'all. The park has gates where everyone is signed in and out, I think climbing permits were $600 or so. Though this season you've had the added hassle of being held hostage by a general strike over gas prices.
-
The fastest way to get Red Bull out of the climbing world would be for all the climbing media to stop handling imagery with Red Bull logos, regardless of source.
I'm pretty sure RB are playing to the climbing public, pictures of their sponsored athletes covered in logos aren't for our benefit but to be used in marketing campaigns outwith climbing, after all they don't advertise directly in climbing mags.
Last time the Lama controversy was in full spate I was amazed by the coincidence of pious critical articles about Lama being followed a day or two later by a news item on the Pou brothers' latest exploits with numerous photos of them spattered with the sickly-taurine drink's brand.
I don't know if you've seen the latest Climb mag but there is an interview with the Pous and they are pretty critical of Lama's last enterprise on Cerro Torre.
-
I imagine something like this is going on. Red Bull has a big marketing department, full of the sort of people you'd find in similar departments at Unilever, CocaCola, P&G, Daigeo, Nestle, etc. They have a "strategy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull#Advertising), which is to sponsor "edgy" sports, to differentiate themselves from Unilever, CocaCola, P&G, Diageo, Nestle, etc. They'll stick with that strategy until it stops working or the head of marketing changes or the CEO changes or ... (people familiar with the weirdness of large companies will know the drill).
This is what strikes me as odd, the people holding the purse strings are probably unaware of Cerro Torre so Lama himself must be behind the idea. Its probably easier to sell them (and the general public) an idea based around the Himalaya or unexplored Tupis in S. America or something in Africa than this so they shouldn't care where or what his chosen project is. By coincidence I am, at this moment, sat in the marketing department in Switzerland of one of those mentioned companies, maybe I should ask them if they are aware of the difference between rap bolting and groud up trad climbing!
-
I don't know if you've seen the latest Climb mag but there is an interview with the Pous and they are pretty critical of Lama's last enterprise on Cerro Torre.
Was goignto mention that - they don't seem impressed, but sadly not unimpressed enough to resign from Red Bull.
-
Why else would he be acting like such an arrogant prick?
Because that is who he is?
-
Why else would he be acting like such an arrogant prick?
I think its more likely he simply doesn't appreciate much about ethics as far as bolts are concerned. There are plenty of climbers in Europe for who roped climbing means bolted protection, end of. I can imagine in his little world the voices of dissent are coming from a bizarre bunch of old-fashioned idealists who probably don't even climb anymore. A kind of multi-national cabal of Ken Wilsons and JCMs. Ethics can seem pretty arbitrary unless you get thoroughly steeped in them at the right time of life.
-
Does my suggested configuration of said department seem correct?
I can't really comment as I work in IT so I'm only just coming out of my dazed and confused state at seeing so many women in an office and marvelling at the range of teas and coffees available in the oh so trendy coffee bar (there's another one on the floor below themed as an English pub but when I went down there and tried to start a fight, vomited on a table and threw at glass at someone who looked at me funny they asked me to leave so its not as authentic as they probably think).
-
This is what strikes me as odd, the people holding the purse strings are probably unaware of Cerro Torre so Lama
This blog post by Will Gadd gives a bit of insight into why/how it happened last year:
http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2010/07/lama-red-bull-cerro-torre.html (http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2010/07/lama-red-bull-cerro-torre.html)
-
Here’s Susie (http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=8934628&authType=OUT_OF_NETWORK&authToken=0aec&locale=en_US&srchid=ccc830f5-461c-4197-90c4-9b63b85b0fd2-1&srchindex=35&srchtotal=510&pvs=ps&pohelp=&goback=%2Ecps_1296040739865_1%2Efps_brand_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*51_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_4_R_true_CC%2CN%2CG%2CI%2CPC%2CED%2CL%2CFG%2CTE%2CFA%2CSE%2CP%2CCS%2CF%2CDR_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_165686_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2) – Brand manager for RedBull UK
And Jennifer (http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=67113725&authType=OUT_OF_NETWORK&authToken=7dZo&locale=en_US&srchid=ccc830f5-461c-4197-90c4-9b63b85b0fd2-2&srchindex=57&srchtotal=510&pvs=ps&pohelp=&goback=%2Ecps_1296040739865_1%2Efps_brand_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*51_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_6_R_true_CC%2CN%2CG%2CI%2CPC%2CED%2CL%2CFG%2CTE%2CFA%2CSE%2CP%2CCS%2CF%2CDR_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_165686_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2) – Brand Manager for Red Bull
-
Its interesting but not unsurprising that the Pous aren't happy about all this. A petition from 500 climbers isn't really going to feature as a blip on the Red Bull radar but two of their best "extreme" athletes resigning would not go unnoticed in the company. But why should the Pous pay for Lama's misdeeds.
-
I think its more likely he simply doesn't appreciate much about ethics as far as bolts are concerned. There are plenty of climbers in Europe for who roped climbing means bolted protection, end of.
My experience of Austrian sportclimbing was very different to most other places (all?). I've never seen crags with as many in-situ draws (not on Maillons either). All petzl spirits.
The routes were marked with badges that ranged from a small pebble with the name/grade on it to full shrines that involved things as elaborate as a stopped pocketwatch, small hip-flask sized Whisky bottle and a cocktail stirrer from a male strip joint! Personally I thought a lot of these were an absolute mess.
Certainly their ethics differ from our own by a vast amount even in the relatively small scope of what is 'Sportclimbing'.
-
A petition from 500 climbers isn't really going to feature as a blip on the Red Bull radar but two of their best "extreme" athletes resigning would not go unnoticed in the company.
I would have thought it would be the other way round. There are plenty of other climbers they could sponsor. If the Pou's resigned over this I imagine head office would just think it was some flouncing spat between them and Lama. Whereas a big petition from their target market might actually make them think they had a problem.
-
Are climbers the target market though?
Mentioned above is the fact that images/film is likely used to woo the general (non-climbing) public.
I always thought the target market was those who neck vodka & redbull when out on the lash/in nightclubs (although I doubt whether this demographic would be interested/bothered/swayed by lavish advertising campaigns).
-
It's more "branding" than "advertising".
-
Yes - RB sponsor 'extreme' athletes and other sports to develop brand associations which are then marketed to the consumer. If you look at the LinkedIn pages, Brand and Marketing are two separate functions with their own VP's and budgets.
-
A petition from 500 climbers isn't really going to feature as a blip on the Red Bull radar but two of their best "extreme" athletes resigning would not go unnoticed in the company.
I would have thought it would be the other way round. There are plenty of other climbers they could sponsor. If the Pou's resigned over this I imagine head office would just think it was some flouncing spat between them and Lama. Whereas a big petition from their target market might actually make them think they had a problem.
Both would be good.
A petition might bring this to the wider media, and it would be helped if some high profile climbers distanced themselves from the brand. It would certainly be ironic if the sponsored/famous climbers dropped the brand!
Someone like Ed Douglas would write an article about it and it would be more likely to get picked up by other media. Then a whole lot of publicity about how "fake" the RB ethos is, could potentially be harmful.
Just need someone to animate a the little "Red Bull gives you wings" character getting flamed Icarus stylee.
I can see it going viral :P
-
Statement from Mammut
http://www.mammut.ch/en/260111_david_lama_patagonia.html (http://www.mammut.ch/en/260111_david_lama_patagonia.html)
-
Very weak. A poor attempt to pass it off as nothing.
-
Read the last line. it's an admission the mountain WILL be damaged, just not 'for no reason!'.
So that's all right then.
David Lama has our full support. We have come to know him in our long-term engagement as a sponsor and any actions that he has taken when climbing have never been hasty decisions which have compromised the ethics of mountain sports. It is obvious that he will only put a bolt in when it is absolutely necessary from a safety point of view. As far as possible David will work along the existing route and use the bolts that are already there to secure himself. There is no way that the mountain will be damaged and drilled for no reason!
Mammut statement
-
So are people saying it shouldn't be bolted, or that it should only be bolted ground up?
-
People are saying that a) there are too already too many bolts in Cerro Torre, and b) any new routes should be done ground-up.
If he did a free route ground-up but added the odd bolt I don't think anyone would be too bothered. Whereas if he manages to place a load of bolts by ab, and then can't free it due to weather (not unlikely) he'll get crucified.
-
What if he sparsely and intelligently bolts a line from ab up the headwall and suceeds in freeing it? How long would the controversy last? Especially if it becomes a classic difficult route. I really have no idea about the ethical mores if these sort of situations, but its all quite interesting.
-
What if he sparsely and intelligently bolts a line from ab up the headwall and suceeds in freeing it? How long would the controversy last?
Any quality judgements will only be made by Lama himself, at least in the short to medium term. The top of Cerro Torre is not a hospitable place; there are probably only three or four days a year when any climbers make it up there. And when they do, they will be rather more preoccupied with getting to the top and back down again before they get wiped out by a storm. Even if he does it and makes a film that makes it look amazing, I doubt he will be lauded for it except by his sponsors.
You have to remember that current climbing in Patagonia is dominated by american climbing culture, and in the US the key ethical debate is not sport vs trad, its ground-up vs rap-bolts. Most of their big trad routes have bolts, what matters to them is how they get there.
There are some other examples in the area - Royal Flush on nearby Fitz Roy was heavily bolted by a german team led by Kurt Albert in the nineties. Their idea was to create an 'accessible' hard free route up the mountain, but subsequent ascents have all poured scorn on its bolted cracklines.
-
What if he sparsely and intelligently bolts a line from ab up the headwall and suceeds in freeing it? How long would the controversy last? Especially if it becomes a classic difficult route. I really have no idea about the ethical mores if these sort of situations, but its all quite interesting.
Ground-up climbing has always been the ethical paragon for US climbers. [urlhttp://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=178001&msg=179556#msg179556]Background.[/url] In the 80s, John Bachar infamously got punched to the dirt in Camp 4 over just this issue. I'm guessing US (in particular) Alpinists still feel pretty strongly about the issue.
A loose local analogy might be the creation of a sport-route in Parliament House Cave at Gogarth, a venue which, like Cerro Torre, has had bolting controversies in the past. Surely an high-standard free route would be hailed as a great achievement and a huge improvement over the present partially bolted aid-lines? My guess is that it wouldn’t last a week.
That is the ethical background, there are other angles. Because of what Lama’s crew did last year they have to be cleaner than clean from now on and they have not been. Nor is he suitably penitent. His statements suggest he knows there is going to trouble but he doesn’t care. This alone will put a lot of people’s noses out of joint.
The sorry history of Maestri and the Compressor Route (http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/825943/Cerro-Torre-the-lie-and-the-desecration) is another factor that makes people super-sensitive about bolting on this mountain.
Finally, and far more importantly in my view, there is the involvement of Red Bull. They have no interest in the long-term health of climbing in the way that Lama’s climbing equipment sponsors such as Mammut have. Mammut have offered an explanation of sorts, nothing from Red Bull. Red Bull don’t know or don’t care what the fuss is about. They have a history of setting-up media-friendly stunts, reports of trashing the local environment, losing access to sensitive venues as a result and then moving on to the next photogenic location. I think they have no place in climbing.
-
Apologies for my lack of any constructive and intellegent comments.
But, the lad is obviously a little naive (?) but at the same time a complete cunt, needs to show some fucking respect, and needs putting on his arse.
-
In the 80s, John Bachar infamously got punched to the dirt in Camp 4 over just this issue. I'm guessing US (in particular) Alpinists still feel pretty strongly about the issue.
Here's the history:
Things came to a head in 1988 when Bachar discovered that a ground-up project of his on Cottage Dome had been rappel bolted, and that Kauk's car was in the parking lot. In retaliation he chopped a route on Arch Rock that had been rap bolted by Kauk and Mark Chapman.
An angry Kauk and Chapman confronted Bachar in the Camp 4 parking lot. Kauk says he walked up to Bachar and said, "What gives you the right to take someone's route out?"
Chapman then stepped up and told Bachar that he would "kick your ass" if he ever chopped his bolts again. Bachar replied that there was no point in waiting and to, "Go ahead and punch me."
"I was shocked," says Chapman, "and when he said it again a switch just went off and I hit him."
-
With a temper like that no wonder he shot Lennon.
-
Why else would he be acting like such an arrogant prick?
Because that is who he is?
It occurs to me that it must be hard for an ambitious sport climbing wunderkid like Lama who, where it not for Ondra, would be one of the very best if not the best. Lama is 20 now. Usually its not until much later in their career that climbers have to go and slog out in the mountains to make a name for themselves.
-
My heart bleeds
-
Apologies for my lack of any constructive and intellegent comments.
But, the lad is obviously a little naive
I'm less convinced of this now. I read an article yesterday that was with one of his current guides (I think?) which stated the rap-bolting was entirely his own idea. Teaming that up with the "I can take it" comment I don't get a picture of some Naive misguided sport climber.
-
Maybe he's trying to cultivate a rebel bad boy maverick image. Hardly convincing when you don't need to shave yet.
-
My heart bleeds
I was speculating on his motivations for planning to do something that is obviously wrong not exonarating his intended action
-
The whole thing is ridiculous, but I have to say the Americans only have themselves to blame for continuing with their dodgy ground up bolting ethic. When is it OK to drill a hole? When you are very scared? Or just a little bit scared? If there's an RP but you'd prefer the security of a bolt, is it OK to put a bolt in, so long as it's 'on lead'?
Colin Haley shoots himself in the foot big style with this statement
It is reasonable, however, that Lama is bringing the bolt kit, because on the headwall they will likely attempt a different line than the blank rock Maestri bolted, and the line they attempt will likely be terrain on which any climber would use bolts
-
I'm not sure its fair to say that bolting on lead doesn't make any sense. It mightn't make any sense to us but we don't have any crags as big as El Cap in our country so our ethics have evolved differently to theirs.
-
OK, it doesn't make any sense to me. Believe me, I've seen some pretty shocking ground up bolting on alpine rock in the States. Lots of rivet holes made so that the next bolt can be placed whilst the ground up purist stands in his aiders. I think the whole 'ethic' is, let's say, very dubious.
-
I remember reading about the ground up bolting ethic in the states as a kid. It didn't make any sense to me then and nothing's changed.
-
I remember reading about the ground up bolting ethic in the states as a kid. It didn't make any sense to me then and nothing's changed.
:agree:
The whole idea of bolting on a big mountain is, to my feeling, anathema. As a young boy 'On Ice and Snow and Rock' inspired me. As a young man it was Messner. For me alpinism is about moving quickly and lightly over technical terrain. It's also about making use of what the mountain offers, if you get to a blank section, go around it; sooner or later someone better than you will come along. And leave as little trace of your passing as humanly possible.
Sadly this kind of ethic appears to hold no relevance for the brusson Lama; the surly appearing little brat from the No Comment DVD appears to have grown only in height. His actions bring disgrace on him, his sponsors and our community in general.
-
OK, it doesn't make any sense to me. Believe me, I've seen some pretty shocking ground up bolting on alpine rock in the States. Lots of rivet holes made so that the next bolt can be placed whilst the ground up purist stands in his aiders. I think the whole 'ethic' is, let's say, very dubious.
It's the same ethic that spawned the Bachar-Yerian - a route you described as an all-time highlight.
Bad and good climbing ethics are mostly matters of context and opinion rather than absolutes. To see them as absolutes is hidebound and lacking imagination and quite frankly a bit disrepectful of equally passionate climbers who happen not to share your ethics. Decrying ground-up bolting (bad) whilst at the same time accepting a whole plethora of contrivances that also help you climb a piece of rock as OK (abseil inspection, chalk, sticky rubber, expansion devices, training whatever) has only been arrived as a matter of cultural context and how the game has evolved. This particular divergence between UK and US trad ethics has been mostly influenced by the type of cliffs they have compared to ours.
-
:agree:
Any bolting on trad ground is a concession to sanity but where do you draw the line on what is acceptable? Without the ground up bolting ethic there wouldn't be a Bachar-Yerian or a Southern Belle or any of the other routes that are iconic but which my specific knowledge won't stretch to naming.
Thinking about it, ground up bolting on Llanberis slate would probably make more sense than bolting on abseil and retaining an element of danger.
-
If you'd like to read the following link...
....and if you see fit, sign the petition.
At the time of me posting this there are 921 signatures, mainly from the US, but also from elsewhere round the world. You guys on this site are not daft, so thats why I've bothered to register on UKB and hopefully get you guys on board:
http://bit.ly/foXVJd (http://bit.ly/foXVJd)
or
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_david_lamas_sponsors_to_stop_their_support_of_his_bolting_actions_on_cerro_torre (http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_david_lamas_sponsors_to_stop_their_support_of_his_bolting_actions_on_cerro_torre)
Cheers!
-
I thought I saw Lama on the way up to Burbage North. Turns out it was just an alpaca (http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/business/looking_ahead_to_the_new_year_1_2890729)
(http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/webimage/alpmay1_1_2890725!image/2437420620.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/2437420620.jpg)
-
OK, it doesn't make any sense to me. Believe me, I've seen some pretty shocking ground up bolting on alpine rock in the States. Lots of rivet holes made so that the next bolt can be placed whilst the ground up purist stands in his aiders. I think the whole 'ethic' is, let's say, very dubious.
It's the same ethic that spawned the Bachar-Yerian - a route you described as an all-time highlight.
True. That route is a good example of where bolts were placed very sparingly and the nature of the rock means that their existence has little visible impact. The style in which it was done was commendable. But possibly it's a rare exception, which is why it always gets wheeled out as an example. There are very few routes in the States like it outside of areas such as Tuolumne and maybe places like The Needles, South Dakota? What seems to be more common is that bolts go in (on lead) where there might be a runout section between features, but where it could be climbed without at a not much higher grade. The route is still brought down to 'your level' and you are still drilling holes in the rock and hammering in metal. I put up a new route in Squamish in this style, but if I'd used my ethics (rather than the locals), I would have had a quick look on a rope from above and probably not needed to put the bolt in. Instead, there was lots of faffing tensioning off RPs and working the moves on tension, hanging on gear, before then redpointing the pitch. At the worst end of the scale, rivets are used as intermediate aid to place the next bolt, before the pitch is redpointed. That just doesn't make sense to me. It would be 'better' to rap bolt those lines and place fewer bolts. Less damage to the rock, less of an eyesore. Outside of the context of the US, Americans take their ground up bolting ethic to big walls and the mountains and feel justified in bringing a bolting kit along. I personally think that's a shame and using the ground up bolting ethic to justify it, not very progressive.
-
Decrying ground-up bolting (bad) whilst at the same time accepting a whole plethora of contrivances that also help you climb a piece of rock as OK (abseil inspection, chalk, sticky rubber, expansion devices, training whatever) has only been arrived as a matter of cultural context and how the game has evolved.
I can see what you're getting at Simon but in the above statement you are comparing something that irreparably changes the rock and route to things that don't.
Once you've drilled the rock the damage is done whether the bolt gets chopped or not. Abseil insection, sticky rubber, chalk, removable gear, training etc. doesn't leave a trace on the rock.
To me, that makes a fundamental difference.
-
Tom makes a good point I think, though the number of bolts in Squamish suggest to me the ground-up ethic is not strictly adhered to.
I think the problem is not the precise style Lama is attempting, but the fact he hasn't set his sights high enough. The climbing community are pretty cynical of big money expeditions like this, and for good reason. The best way to counteract the criticism is to make sure you are doing something they can only applaud. You can go right back to the sixties and the first National Geographic feature on big walling. Most of the Yosemite community thought it was a terrible idea, and some even set out to sabotage the ascent. But the climbers turned the tables by leaving their hammers behind and making the first clean ascent of a big wall. Suddenly all that press had a positve effect in moving ethics forward.
-
The ground-up style is not exclusively american. It is the prevalent style wherever it make sense: on bigger cliffs in Norway, Spain, and Italy for example.
Really, it is hard to better Colin's latest blog post. (Even if I strongly disagree with him on rap-bolting on El Cap.)
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011/01/clarifications-about-cerro-torre-david.html (http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011/01/clarifications-about-cerro-torre-david.html)
-
If you'd like to read the following link...
....and if you see fit, sign the petition.
At the time of me posting this there are 921 signatures, mainly from the US, but also from elsewhere round the world. You guys on this site are not daft, so thats why I've bothered to register on UKB and hopefully get you guys on board:
http://bit.ly/foXVJd (http://bit.ly/foXVJd)
or
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_david_lamas_sponsors_to_stop_their_support_of_his_bolting_actions_on_cerro_torre (http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_david_lamas_sponsors_to_stop_their_support_of_his_bolting_actions_on_cerro_torre)
Cheers!
The problem with this I discovered is that I have to give quite a lot of personal information to a website I really know very little about. Consequently I backed off half way through signing the petition.
I'll mail Mammut UK directly instead. Red Bull I'd consider a waste of time as I don't believe they'd have any interest in my views.
-
I believe you can give the wrong details and yet still sign it.
-
From http://www.david-lama.com/ (http://www.david-lama.com/)
Soweit wie möglich möchte ich mich ja an die Kompressorroute halten, vom Einrichten aus dem Abseilsitz werde ich allerdings absehen. Sollten also fürs Freiklettern Abweichungen notwendig sein, so müsste ich diese von unten angehen und einrichten; ein zeitaufwändiges Unterfangen für die knappen patagonischen „Schön“wetterfenster.
(My boldface)
Which I think (my German is horribly bad) can be translated to something like:
"I would like to stay on the Compressor-route as much as possible, I will certainly abstain from equipping [the route] on rappel. If deviation from the route is necessary for free climbing I will try this ground-up; a time consuming process for the short Patagonian good-weather window."
-
colin haleys last post:
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011/01/david-lama-and-cerro-torre-good-news.html (http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011/01/david-lama-and-cerro-torre-good-news.html)
good stuff
-
Here's an image to help put it all in context. Might be a bit chilly on the fingers :-[
(http://www.brasovia.com/images/UnderCompressor.jpg)
From http://www.brasovia.com/events/patagonia/index.html (http://www.brasovia.com/events/patagonia/index.html)
-
Wow. That's a turnaround. Good result.
-
:great:
-
??? :shrug: story/linky :please:
EDIT : Found it myself...
Rock & Ice : Lama abandons rap bolting plans (http://rockandice.com/news/1334-lama-has-abandoned-his-rap-bolting-plans-on-cerro-torre)
-
Slackers, jwi linked to DL's blog (the horses mouth, as it were), and I linked to colin haleys (which has been the best summary of the situation I've found and by someone out there), not sure what more you want from us.
-
Slackers, jwi linked to DL's blog (the horses mouth, as it were), and I linked to colin haleys (which has been the best summary of the situation I've found and by someone out there), not sure what more you want from us.
I'd only read T_B, Will & csurfleet's posts, had glanced at yours thinking it was the same link to Colin Haley's post made further back in the thread :oops:
-
"I would like to stay on the Compressor-route as much as possible, I will certainly abstain from equipping [the route] on rappel. If deviation from the route is necessary for free climbing I will try this ground-up; a time consuming process for the short Patagonian good-weather window."
It's a good start, well done Lama. Even better would be ruling out bolts altogether, but a good start.
-
Last time the Lama controversy was in full spate I was amazed by the coincidence of pious critical articles about Lama being followed a day or two later by a news item on the Pou brothers' latest exploits with numerous photos of them spattered with the sickly-taurine drink's brand.
Interestingly, and despite the obvious branding in the picture, there is no mention of Red Bullshit as the Pou's sponsors (http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=60238). Whether this is because they no longer are or it is an author/editorial decision I've no idea.
-
All sorts of good stuff been happening in Patagonia in the last week or so:
http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/slew_of_fas_in_patagonia/ (http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/slew_of_fas_in_patagonia/)
As for the SE ridge of Cerro Torre, it has seen the closest attempt yet to (aid) climb it without using Maestri’s bolts:
According to:
http://www.pataclimb.com (http://www.pataclimb.com)
“In February of 2011 Canadians Chris Geisler and Jason Kruk came very close to pulling off a complete "fair means" ascent of the SE ridge of Cerro Torre, reaching a point 40 meters below of the top of the headwall without using any of Maestri's bolts for progression. They followed the Salvaterra-Mabboni and Wharton-Smith lines to the headwall, then climbed the first headwall pitch right over the bolts but without using them (free at 5+), to then move right for a pitch (they aided some but estimated it would go free at 6c), later crossing left of the bolted line to reach an obvious ledge one pitch below the compressor. From here they climbed left to a point level with the compressor but about 40 meters left of it. In the early morning, after having climbed through the night and in very high winds Geisler finished his lead by traversing back right following a thin seam, to eventually make a pendulum that took him to the third bolt down from the compressor. From that point they retreat. In the darkness Geisler failed to notice features further left that likely would have allowed him to climb a completetly independent fair means line to the top. On that last pitch, which required 8 hours, Geisler placed a single bolt climbing left and one while traversing right back to the compressor. Hats off for such a great effort!!”
And it seems that Lama has reached the top of Cerro Torre, although it isn’t clear on his blog whether this was a free ascent or not (from the fact he says it was ice covered, I suspect this was an aided ascent of the Compressor Route?):
According to:
http://www.david-lama.com/en.html (http://www.david-lama.com/en.html)
“At our second try this year, my partner Peter Ortner and I finally succeeded to climb the top of the Cerro Torre. Starting from the shoulder we got up to the ice-covered peak after 10 hours of technical climbing. At about 10.00 p.m. and catching the last evening light we lastly reached the top. Our Cerro Torre-marathon (El Chalten shoulder – Cerro Torre – shoulder El Chalten) lasted all in all 46 hours.”
If it wasn't a free ascent, it will be interesting to see if he sticks to his free climbing plans now he has actually seen the thing up close...
-
Just read Jason Kruk's blog and it seems to confirm what I'd guessed:
"David Lama was on the Torre aid climbing up the bolts so we were being buzzed all day long by a helicopter film crew."
Much more detail at:
http://blog.jasonkruk.net/ (http://blog.jasonkruk.net/)
-
Red Bull I'd consider a waste of time as I don't believe they'd have any interest in my views.
The Red Bull related part of this programe:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011llvt/Secrets_of_the_Superbrands_Food/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011llvt/Secrets_of_the_Superbrands_Food/)
would seem to back up that opinion.