UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => shootin' the shit => two wheel spiel => Topic started by: Jim Franklin on February 04, 2010, 01:36:15 pm
-
Gents, so you do not think this has been forgotten about now the dust has settled. I have now had confirmation from several interested parties, including South Yorks Police, Peak District Authority and other groups that they will be meeting me on 12th February.
We are meeting at about 09:30hrs where Houndkirk Road and Hathersage Road meet near to the outdoor activity centre.
If anyone would like to come along to represent the members here and the wider bouldering community we would welcome you, but please do remember that this is a meeting to resolve issues and look for ways forward for ALL. The priority has to be the Moor and working within the framework of the organisations that have put in so much work and effort over the last 5 years or so. This is not about personal or group agendas and I simply ask that all that attend do so with a cool head. Please remember that South Yorks Police will be present for the same reason as everyone else, but I am sure that if someone is disruptive etc they will take appropriate action.
Please gentlemen, lets keep this civil and mature, everyone actually has the same end game here, we are just approaching it from different angles.
-
I'll be there Jim. Know couple of the SY police who've been involved and probably the PDNPA rep too. I'll be good, I promise..........
-
Hmm, its a Friday, so I'll be working then :(
-
I'll be there Jim. Know couple of the SY police who've been involved and probably the PDNPA rep too. I'll be good, I promise..........
That will be good John...and good behaviour too... :bounce:
-
why have you organised this meet for when 99% of the forum are at work
-
friday is a 12 hour day for me..
having said that those that can attend know my stance & I'm happy they represent me.
keep us all informed...
plz keep the place open for mtb.... plz.... [ my first ever ride, my eldest son's & the 2nd... huge emotional value for me.. for a scraggy desecrated moor]
-
john i dont have the same "endgame" as franklin at all.ban the fuckin 4 by 4 out of the peak off road for good is my "endgame"
-
why have you organised this meet for when 99% of the forum are at work
Simple really, Most of those who will be attending this meet are public officials who are paid 9-5 Monday to Friday and as nothing can be resolved without the input of the Park Authority, the Police and numerous other Local Authority Agencies we need to meet when it's convenient to the majority.
I will be there on the Saturday, but as you freely admit that your "end game" is to ban 4x4's then there is no common ground we would find and meeting you would be like pissing in the wind...It would simply waste your time and my time and I think you would agree we both have better things to do than waste time.
This thread is not the place for a discussion on the merits or not of using a 4x4, so perhaps you would be so kind as to pm your thoughts and justifications to me so that they may go into the report; if your reasoning is justified and can be supported by evidence.
Jim
-
The attendance of the police is substantially irrelevant as what we're talking about is a change in the classification of the road.
Frankly I'd be amazed if you get a pc to attend for what is essentially a walk in the hills esp when there's already an operation underway and no evidence of infringement ongoing.
If you're talking about people getting 'done' by the Police, do grow up.
-
Well, being an utter slacker, I'm going. So, pm your thoughts to me or, if you can't be arsed, I'll just form an opinion based on this thread.
Fear not FD - mbing on Houndkirk is NOT in danger. It's a special place for me too.
Sloper - that's the thing about Tim Cross Tom, he really cares about this shit, so if he or one of his team can make it, they will. And as for infringement, all the signs on the summit and some on the gates have been torn down and the tracks in the snow on wednesday clearly showed that an early morning 4x4er had been trialling over the summit. Oh yeah, it's still going on.........
And Jim, good behaviour doesn't mean I'm not going to be just a tinsy bit pissed off! This is far from the first meeting I've had on Houndkirk Moor to address this thorny litttle issue and I'm getting a bit frustrated by the utter lack of progress...............
-
The attendance of the police is substantially irrelevant as what we're talking about is a change in the classification of the road.
Frankly I'd be amazed if you get a pc to attend for what is essentially a walk in the hills esp when there's already an operation underway and no evidence of infringement ongoing.
If you're talking about people getting 'done' by the Police, do grow up.
Tim Cross from South Yorks Police has stated that he WILL be attending as this is not just about a "walk in the hills". This is about resolving long standing issues due to some thoughtless and ignorant butt wipes who happen to own 4x4's who simply refuse to obey the law and common decency, plus a lot of misconceptions about the different user groups from other user groups.
My agenda is simple...find a way to protect the Moor and to allow as much practical access for all the interested groups as is both practical and enforceable.
Make no mistake, as much as I would not want any user group banned from this area, if the ONLY way to prevent this illegal use and the destruction of the Moor then I would support a total ban of either motor vehicles or anything that does not involve walking..That would be a blooming disaster and should be avoided at all costs, but ultimately the Moor is what is important.
I think the Police from both Sth Yorks and Derbyshire have shown that, as far as they are able, they have taken the actions necessary to eliminate illegal drivers on the Moor over the last 5-10 years, but they cannot do this truly successfully without the input of the public at large. This is also true of the Peaks Authority and the County Council. The simple solution for all would be a ban on all but foot traffic, but they have repeatedly refused to go down this route due to the impact it would have on so many and they too want people to enjoy this beautiful location.
I have no desire to argue with anyone and all I ask is that people who are open minded enough to make a positive impact on what I am trying to do will take part and help, I do not expect us to agree on everything, that is life, but we all have the same end game..protect the Moor and in the process the ability of people to enjoy it by whatever method rocks their respective boat.
I know John will be there on Friday and I expect him to be vociferous in his opinion, I would not want or expect anything less, so if anyone else wishes to be there on Friday please do make your way there.
-
Like Jim says......So, if anyone can't make it friday and would like me to act as their proxy, let me know on this thread or by pm..............
-
You can be the proxy proxy for all 9-5ers word.
-
I'm afraid I'll be in Scotland so won't be able to make it. I hope some progress can be made though - good luck.
If things go well, can I suggest something similar for the Long Causeway? I'd certainly make myself available for that.
My views on both are simple - motorised recreation is not compatible with moorland of such wildlife value, nor in landscape of such national value, nor with the right of others to quiet enjoyment of the countryside.
I trust you'll represent me right John.
-
I'll be there. It will be good to meet you: Jim and John both.
-
I'll be there. It will be good to meet you: Jim and John both.
Wear your UKB T-shirt Joe, otherwise a sniper might get you..................
-
I'll be there. It will be good to meet you: Jim and John both.
Wear your UKB T-shirt Joe, otherwise a sniper might get you..................
I'll be the one in the muddy Landy Disco (shurley shome mishtake).
-
What happens if someone wants to come who's name doesn't start with J?
-
What happens if someone wants to come who's name doesn't start with J?
What do you reckon Joe? Are D's allowed??
-
I'll be doing a job of work on friday. Just spitballing theoretically.
-
Then, purely theoretically Dave, you're more than welcome to join us............................ ;D
-
Gents...sadly I cannot attend the moor tomorrow. My 1 year old daughter has been diagnosed with pneumonia today after being ill for several weeks. I need to be here with my partner and children as a result.
I have emailed all those that were to attend to let them know and pm'ed John so he is aware.
I will liaise with all those who were to attend and arrange another day in the next few weeks, hopefully with enough lead time to allow a few more to attend..i know that some wanted to but work interfered.
Please accept my apologies, but I am sure you will understand that my family has to come first.
Jim
-
Sorry to hear about that hope she gets better soon.
Why can't it go ahead anyway? Obviously you won't be able to do the Roni Size for your user-group, but the authorities who are to police the area will be there and something useful/productive could still be achieved :shrug:
-
Being a fuckwit I didn't read Jim's e-mail so I turned up. It was still worthwhile with the National Park guys giving me a very Real World perspective on the 4x4 issue and the Houndskirk's suitability as a 4x4 venue for responsible users.
Really sorry to hear about your kid Jim hope she perks up soon and will look forward to meeting you when you can re-arrange.
-
;D Good to see you up there Joe! I'm kinda glad we didn't have a full meeting - I'd've ended up hypothermic! And it was wet across Blacka, oh yes.....................
-
and did you realise you're quite tall for your name...................? ;)
-
Yeah I thought it might be. Still bloody good effort biking to the meeting. Maybe do a carshare for the next one?
-
Yeah I thought it might be. Still bloody good effort biking to the meeting. Maybe do a carshare for the next one?
Car share? I'll give you a backy maybe.............
-
Just as quick update, I've been in contact with a few MP's regarding this issue and they appear to be more than receptive.
A few more voices supporting the ban of all 4x4 on national park BOAT etc might well push things past the tipping point.
Remember there's an election coming, let's make that lobby work for us.
-
Yeah good idea.... Will probably do the same and point out how dependent they were on the good will of 4x4 owners in all the recent snow and bad weather and the impact that could have on their budgets and popularity when people get stranded if 4x4 owners decide not to help in future........
-
cartman
-
Yeah good idea.... Will probably do the same and point out how dependent they were on the good will of 4x4 owners in all the recent snow and bad weather and the impact that could have on their budgets and popularity when people get stranded if 4x4 owners decide not to help in future........
If you need some help with basic grammar, explanation as to how the PDNPA, PPJPA and related bodies relate, lobbying and so on please do let me know, rates start from £500 per day.
:wank: :wave:
-
Yeah good idea.... Will probably do the same and point out how dependent they were on the good will of 4x4 owners in all the recent snow and bad weather and the impact that could have on their budgets and popularity when people get stranded if 4x4 owners decide not to help in future........
If you need some help with basic grammar, explanation as to how the PDNPA, PPJPA and related bodies relate, lobbying and so on please do let me know, rates start from £500 per day.
:wank: :wave:
You want to be careful there Sloper - you'll get a repetitive strain injury doing that all the time. I bet that hand motion is very effective when in court too.
Funnily enough basic grammar isn't a problem for me and I certainly don't need any explanations from you. As for your rates, they are substantially lower than mine my friend....(not that its relevant). Maybe that's why I drive a 4x4 and you ride a bike.
If you recall your original post was about talking to MPs. As a general rule I have always found politicians will agree with the person talking to them as they think that by doing so they will have won an extra vote. Whether they have any intention to carry out what was discussed with you is of course another matter.
-
Oh yes, the country wouldn't have been able to cope without 4x4 owners. The fleet of X5's doing the rounds each morning in the snow was a sight to behold. :P
-
Yeah good idea.... Will probably do the same and point out how dependent they were on the good will of 4x4 owners in all the recent snow and bad weather and the impact that could have on their budgets and popularity when people get stranded if 4x4 owners decide not to help in future........
If you need some help with basic grammar, explanation as to how the PDNPA, PPJPA and related bodies relate, lobbying and so on please do let me know, rates start from £500 per day.
:wank: :wave:
You want to <should> be careful there Sloper<[color=];[/color]> - you'll get a repetitive strain injury doing that all the time. I bet that <[color=]that[/color]> hand motion is <[color=]also[/color]> very effective when in court too.
Funnily enough basic grammar isn't a problem for me and I certainly don't need any explanations <[color=]an explanation[/color]> from you. As for your rates, they are substantially lower than mine my friend <[color=]friend's[/color]>....(not that its relevant). Maybe that's why I drive a 4x4 and you ride a bike.
If you recall your original post was about talking to MPs. As a general rule I have always found politicians will agree with the person talking to them<[color=],[/color]> as they think that by doing so they will have won an extra vote. Whether they have any intention to carry out <[color=]through[/color]>what was discussed with you is<,> of course another matter.
Corrected for grammar. Ohhh and for the record I don't ride a bike.
Childish I know but what the hell.
-
Yeah good idea.... Will probably do the same and point out how dependent they were on the good will of 4x4 owners in all the recent snow and bad weather and the impact that could have on their budgets and popularity when people get stranded if 4x4 owners decide not to help in future........
If you need some help with basic grammar, explanation as to how the PDNPA, PPJPA and related bodies relate, lobbying and so on please do let me know, rates start from £500 per day.
:wank: :wave:
You want to should be careful there Sloper ; - you'll get a repetitive strain injury doing that all the time. I bet that that hand motion is also very effective when in court too.
Funnily enough basic grammar isn't a problem for me and I certainly don't need any explanations an explanation from you. As for your rates, they are substantially lower than mine my friend friend's....(not that its relevant). Maybe that's why I drive a 4x4 and you ride a bike.
If you recall your original post was about talking to MPs. As a general rule I have always found politicians will agree with the person talking to them, as they think that by doing so they will have won an extra vote. Whether they have any intention to carry out through what was discussed with you is, of course another matter.
Corrected for grammar. Ohhh and for the record I don't ride a bike.
Childish I know but what the hell.
Corrected for BBcode, although I think you've misinterpreted nomorespam2009@live.co.uk as he is implying that his fees for correcting grammar are greater than yours.
-
Not as high as my fees for correcting grammar.......
Austin Powers - 100 billion dollars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY#)
That's why you drive a 4 x 4 and I fly around in my Learjet drinking Cristal out of diamond encrusted John Calleija glasses and lighting my Butera Vintage Select cigars with £50 notes.
Beat that!
-
...although I think you've misinterpreted nomorespam2009@live.co.uk as he is implying that his fees for correcting grammar are greater than yours.
Upon second reading though, you may well have corrected it as such to suggest that nomorespam2009@live.co.uk's friends would be more suited to correct grammar than. :-\
-
Funnily enough basic grammar isn't a problem for me and I certainly don't need any explanations an explanation from you. As for your rates, they are substantially lower than mine my friend friend's....(not that its relevant). Maybe that's why I drive a 4x4 and you ride a bike.
Corrected for grammar. Ohhh and for the record I don't ride a bike.
Childish I know but what the hell.
Corrected for BBcode, although I think you've misinterpreted nomorespam2009@live.co.uk as he is implying that his fees for correcting grammar are greater than yours.
I am severely disappointed that both Sloper and Slack---speller missed that itinerant "its". What is the world coming to? I'm so annoyed I am tempted to punter you both :rtfm: Grrrrr etc
-
<hangs head in shame>, but please excuse me, my 'pedantry 101' course was such a long, long, time ago.
Anyway, after a bit of work I might go onto LRO.com to update them.
If anyone wants the password for Sloper send me a 'pm'.
-
And how dare anyone suggest my dear friend and drinking partner sloper would ride a velocipede! Good god, far too proletarian! Let's face it he only drinks with me because he thinks he can turn me to the dark side........
....funnily enough though, I'm beginning to find those Cameroon posters strangely persuasive......
Oh, and nomorespam, if that's what we have to call you, do you have any idea how snobby you sounded in your post? If not, seek help....
-
You are turning to the dark side, you just don't quite realise that inside the tired out trot there's a thrusting young tory ready to burst out and embrace the power of capitalism.
-
Did anyone see the Observer piece on the most romantic places in Britain on Sunday.
Nick Clegg (Sheffield MP) choose Stanage Edge which he apparently walks along with his wife.
If this guy enjoys the beauty of the peak district surly he's one to get onboard as I 'm sure
a troop of 4x4's bounding along the causeway or Houndkirk wouldn't add to his walks ?
-
Yeah good idea.... Will probably do the same and point out how dependent they were on the good will of 4x4 owners in all the recent snow and bad weather and the impact that could have on their budgets and popularity when people get stranded if 4x4 owners decide not to help in future........
I own a 4x4 (I actually need one for work) and offered to make deliveries during the bad weather.
Are you seriously saying you would let people stay in difficulty, when you had the opportunity and means to help just because someone took your ball away? I do hope you're not representative of 4x4 owners in general, childish and selfish is a pretty miserable way to go through life.
-
its such a great argument isn't it;
we helped the old dear next door get her shopping when it was snowing so that must give us automatic permission to go and tear up the countryside
-
You are turning to the dark side, you just don't quite realise that inside the tired out trot there's a thrusting young tory ready to burst out and embrace the power of capitalism.
Thrusting?! Young?! Suggesting there's a tory molecule in my body somehow doesn't sound so ludicrous after that!
-
I once helped out on a mountain rescue. Does that give me a right to roam?
(http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/djreps/HFQhkh3BVk7id5am5nSVokYj3qvemj2J5yfhysHGsLw9W9v06P53mi0s1RMH/68Kano_feat_Craig_David.jpg)
-
its such a great argument isn't it;
we helped the old dear next door get her shopping when it was snowing so that must give us automatic permission to go and tear up the countryside
You are bang on the money there Jim. :agree:
-
Did anyone see the Observer piece on the most romantic places in Britain on Sunday.
Nick Clegg (Sheffield MP) choose Stanage Edge which he apparently walks along with his wife.
If this guy enjoys the beauty of the peak district surly he's one to get onboard as I 'm sure
a troop of 4x4's bounding along the causeway or Houndkirk wouldn't add to his walks ?
yeah and if he can't see the communication mast which is clearly visible in the distance he needs his eyes testing.
Having said that I think he's a decent sort (in a one nation tory but not tory kind of way) on board and will be dropping words int he right ears.
-
Just sent Mr Clegg an email via his website lets see what he's got to say.
I'm just lovin those targeted google ads at the bottom of the page any one for a 4x4 ?
-
hehe I am loving this thread, but heck there is no chance that the remaining limited access to the moor will be removed lol... more so, the original issue was with illegal use of the moor away from the road, there is nothing illegal happening on the road.
If the road is badly maintained... who is responsible for that? the people we pay our road tax to?
does anyone think that making something that is already illegal, equally illegal will actually achieve anything.. it only means that the only remaining opposition out on the moor will be mountainbikers and people with stupid hats on.
-
So the council should maintain the road to what condition? A hardtop accessible to all? Or would that not be fun enough. Ultimately these things come down to cost - maintaining a track solely for the fun of a few isn't too high on the HA's agenda. If the use isn't sustainable (and it isn't) you'll either get a hardtop or lose access.
-
:agree:
-
haha you cant be serious lol, not ever going to happen. And with regard to allocation of funds to one particular usergroup, the forestry commission was happy to eliminate all walkers from whole forests to create bike parks with nice north shore, berms and clean tabletops. Its happened before and will happen again.
I would say the walker in the forest with a dog to shredding trails (on a bike) ratio is enough evidence.
-
Are you from Scunthorpe, lol?
-
haha you cant be serious lol, not ever going to happen. And with regard to allocation of funds to one particular usergroup, the forestry commission was happy to eliminate all walkers from whole forests to create bike parks with nice north shore, berms and clean tabletops. Its happened before and will happen again.
I would say the walker in the forest with a dog to shredding trails (on a bike) ratio is enough evidence.
What the fuck are you on about................
-
having a problem reading JB's post? what the fuck are you on about? lol.
Scunthorp for the win! haha
-
why lol all the time?
are you krusty the clown? do you have uncontrolled hysteria?
please stop writing fucking lol!
-
hehe ok.. : ) shall do. Simple things and all that. anyone got anything to add that is actually ON TOPIC?
-
the sCUNThorpe chap is trying to make a comparison with national park moorland and continuous cover coniferous forestry. and being a cunt.
-
killer vocabulary there man, ahh I see what you were trying to do... very nice!, awesome show of wit.. I bet you play a lot of sega and resemble a tree dont ya : )
-
Actually lol it was more of a lol red tips reference lol. The fact that Scunthorpe contains an appropriate swearword is purely coincidental.
I didn't expect burned to get it. I don't expect him to get anything. A basic grasp of the English language would be asking a lot but I don't really care.
Have you seen the standard of fitness of the skeleton bob birds? Amazing. BYE!
-
Yes I have. Tight, like prom night.
-
Good work Face.
-
well seeing as the word cunt was used twice I thought it was worth commenting on? (retaliating)
-
:off: everyone finished assassinating personalities ? : )
-
Sure.
I've been out of the country for a while and was just wandering what's happened to that knobhead Jim Franklin recently?
-
Up at Stanage today, very disappointed to see a party of five vehicles, four landrovers and one discovery, travelling UP the long Causeway in clear defiance of the voluntary one-way agreement.
Perhaps a Landrover user group? Hopefully one of the 4x4ers watching this can take this opportunity to remind their friends and club members of the agreement.
And for the record, they were clearly audible from the Plantation, whereas traffic on the road a similar distance away was not. Perhaps that's because cars don't generally travel in groups, and have no need to rev their engines to pass obstacles.
-
Nice one Johnny, thanks for the info!, I will put out the feelers, did you by any chance get any reg numbers?, was it 4 defenders and one disco?
often the cars are easy to ID because of the way they look, roofrack, lights, winch and so on. Is there any extra info you can give us to help us shame these morons.
As for Jim the "knobhead" his 1 year old kid is in hospital very sick the last time I heard... read previous posts and stop trolling please mate : )
-
well up early today to take the dogs out training, and while checking my email I was sent this link!.
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=47113&sid=c6bb782807ff427e3b47f2b6343ffb80 (http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=47113&sid=c6bb782807ff427e3b47f2b6343ffb80)
I aint a member on there, and I dont know the guys, but if it makes even one person in here think that we are taking responsibility for our actions, then it was worth the post
-
Four land-rovers, I think all short wheel base, and one discovery. It was about 5:00, sun had just set, they had their lights on. I'm afraid I wasn't close enough to get numbers or details, I will try to in the future.
As for your link, I applaud you guys getting involved and doing some work. It would be nicer though if it hadn't been necessary - its sole purpose is to keep 4x4s on the track where they should be anyway. Sorry if that sounds negative but its about keeping the track open for yourselves isn't it? If it was adding/ repairing something for the wider community I'd be more impressed.
-
burned your a cock
-
Sad to report another negative experience with 4x4s today. A party of no less than NINE (http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=490) vehicles, heading up the track up the Porter Clough on the outskirts of Sheffield. For whatever reason they were stuck, for some time, just below the field known locally as 'Jacob's Ladder' and were blocking the narrow track for a good thirty yards, leaving walkers, cyclists and skiers (snow here today) to struggle past through the brambles and mud of the verge. Cyclists had to dismount, skiers to take skis off. All the while the owners sat inside listening to the radio with engines idling, filling the lane with diesel fumes. Nice one guys!
-
Keep personal insults out of the debate please.
-
Particulalry when grammatically incorrect.
About 15 of the front bottoms heading over towards houndkirk tor early this morning. I do hope they got stuck.
-
heheh hairich, well constructed post!, I am sure we are all impressed by your contribution!
hmm, I have to admit, that its a bit disturbing the lane should be so busy both days this weekend, and blocking the lane so that other users had to leave the trail and wander off onto the moor among the bushes is obviously not showing any sort of forethought for others and only contributes to the lane becoming wider.
I honestly didnt think it was this bad, but two posts in as many days leads me to think otherwise though : ( - I am kinna stuck as to what I should think now, on one hand I dont want us to loose the trail, but on the other I realize how crappy the situation is for everyone except the guy sitting there with his heaters on full blast. I am sure all the other riders in here will remember a similar situation when all the walkers were all over us for trail blazing and building our own stuff off trail, there is just this overwhelming sense of irresponsibility conflicting with selfishness, and it doesn't feel good. Whats even worse in a way is that it seems there are people out there driving that are just numb to any of that and as a result we are all suffering at present and the future recourse as well : (
sloper, you work in legal council right? what would be the best way to work towards pushing this through, as I can imagine that trying to push something on a "voluntary" basis isnt going to be popular among the rednecks among us.
I can only think that we should all lobby for times of the month/year where there should be a ban as suggested by you guys earlier.
-
respect for listening. If you can inform the majority of the user group then you can perhaps be in a situation where the 4 by 4 users keep some access... it would seem this form of outdoor activity is under great pressure from all other user groups.. the 4 by 4 user group have laid great faith in their over representation for the peak user group survey from that undertaken some 18 months ago (where they utilised their numbers to swamo the response). I feel complacency and instances of abuse have changed the cultural and political perspective rather rapidly.
In summery I agree with your last post, either embrace a legal enforcement, and get some access, or totally lose the hill for your pleasure.
again, brave post..
-
Hard day with the knife? It looks as you've developed slopersyndrome v a v the typing. :oops:
Burned, I presume you mean lose, counsel etc but if you repost in English my confusion will be resolved.
Personally I'm doing everything that I can to get all 4x4 banned from all BOAT other than for access etc in all national parks, AONB etc; not that I have any chance of this; it must be a pure co-incidence that the day the report of the contracting out of SAR helicopter services I posted on here, engaged the machine and the Tories released a press release setting out their opposition until greater consideration had been given to the scheme etc. :read:
ooooohhhhh look at my access beetches
-
Sloper - wow.. the spelling was rather shocking, I didnt read over it before posting, you were totally on the mark though.
I wouldn't be too disheartened, I feel that I have as much of a shot changing things as you probably feel that you do right now, almost like showing up in haiti with a dustpan and brush... at the end of the day if it is lost, it kind of feels like we brought it on ourselves, and that is at least some consolation for me personally, had it been taken away for no reason it would have felt a bit crap.
I mailed some other drivers to see what they thought, and because of the hostile (although I know it was only sarcasm and jabbing an elbow) posts made in here to the 4x4 guys, they all just flamed me. Maybe I should bail on my roadtrip through mongolia early and hope its sorted when I get back haha (no LOL there : )
-
Burned, its good to know some of you are listening at least. For the record, I haven't got any problem with green-laning in principle, my beef is purely derived from bitter experience. I'm sure there are lanes more suitable than the ones I frequent, but on the ones I do there are problems. Perhaps its a difference in frequency of use? I'm up at Stanage most weeks, whereas I guess the average 4x4er would only cross the Causeway 2 or 3 times a year? Then on to the next site, not realising half an hour behind is another convoy, and another... we see them all.
Just to clear up, yesterday's experience was in Porter Clough, which is not up on the moors, it's in a valley leading down to Sheffield just outside the National Park. In principle its a far better site for the activity - not on a SSSI, not in an NP, not clearly visible amidst one of the UK's most iconic vistas. But the selfish behaviour of the driver's concerned still had a negative impact on other users. If folk feela need to go out in convoys of nine vehicles I think they should be sticking to pay-and-play sites, not narrow lanes popular with other users.
-
I'm really pleased to see the debate on here is finally shaping up to a "what can WE do" rather than a "Who shall we blame one". Well done Burned for carrying on Jim's reasoned, pro-greenlaning stance.
Do we have a revised date for the Houndskirk meeting, with a rep from one of the 4x4 groups? If so post here or PM me I would like to go if I can.
-
Hi Joe, had a message from Jim yesterday. His little 'un is on the mend thankfully and he's aiming to reschedule shortly. So, Joe, riding or driving??????
-
Depends on when and weather. But keep in touch and decide later.
-
Limiting access seems a good compromise - i.e. drier times of year (whenever they are!), or just only opening up to motor vehicles some weekends. Could we just have a lockable gate with a side gate for pedestrian/ mtb access - and people apply for the key? Or it only gets opened every so often?
Not thought this through - more thinking out loud.
-
Well done John and Joe for your liberal viewpoints, unfortunately I spend my working week being overly political so really can't be arsed with taking the same stance here.
4x4's have made a right mess of the top of Houndkirk. 4x4 users can't be trusted to park in a line 6 long along a public by-way leaving sufficient room for the public to pass, as witnessed by Johnny Brown. 4x4 users seem to think that holding a selective meeting with the people they wish to meet with is an objective approach, witness Jim Franklin's inability to answer my PM's even before I started getting stroppy with him.
I'm sorry folks but this has been going on for years. The 4x4 users have demonstrated a total lack of interest in the issues or ability to police themselves and a bit of sweet talking on here by one or two no doubt eminently sensible members of their community does nothing to convince me of the ability of the rest of the 4x4 community to even consider other user groups' opinions let alone take account of them.
If anyone needs some photos of yesterday's debacle by the "yorks-lincs4x4response.org" in Porter Clough, then PM me and I'll post them.
-
witness Jim Franklin's inability to answer my PM's even before I started getting stroppy with him.
I'm not taking any sides, but many people assume that a sent message, whether its via email or through the messaging board hear means that its been received and read, which simply is not the case. Sometimes emails don't reach the intended recipient and get lost in the ether. Some people may not even be aware of how to read their personal messages here (and may have had the email that was sent to them automatically filtered into trash). I think there are just too many unknown variables to account for before assuming that you're being ignored.
If anyone needs some photos of yesterday's debacle by the "yorks-lincs4x4response.org" in Porter Clough, then PM me and I'll post them.
HowTo Embed Pictures to UKBouldering (http://ukbouldering.com/wiki/index.php/HowTo_Embed_Pictures_to_UKBouldering) (if you can be bothered).
-
awesome feedback, get the photos up here for us all to have a look at. Once the evidence is there, it cannot be denied by any of the guilty parties, and I am interested to see who they are!.
Great news that jims little one is on the mend, pneumonia doesnt joke around with the kids.
Hope you all had a sweet weekend, two more weeks and I leave for my adventure!. Work has never been less appealing than it is now haha.
-
Been over Houndkirk today - the summit is a fucking disgrace. Looks as though it's been the playground of choice this weekend. Ground conditions are exactly what you'd expect, filthy, so the damage is pretty extreme. Time for the 4x4 fraternity to put their house in order. No more excuses - they should be patroling the summit and 're-educating' those who obviously can't read the signs or just don't care how much mess they make. :wall:
-
I too have been over this weekend and notice that there are now four sets of tracks dropping off the Moor, not the two there was until recently. I have no evidence of the increase from 2 to 4 except for my appaling memory, but it's getting worse and, as you say John, there were 'fresh' tracks up there.
They're a bunch of useless cunts as far as I'm concerned. I may have expressed that point previously but can't remember.
Anyway, as promised, here's some pics of some useless cunts unable to get up the perfectly legal bit of Jacob's Ladder in Mayfield Valley. Knobheads.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4401372333_dbf54238f9_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2687/4402137690_e5516edb91_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4012/4402137492_a88c0381e1_o.jpg)
-
For what its worth I reported two vehicles on that weekend for driving off piste on Houndkirk. Both were white and black Defender 90s and the drivers were not bothered about things like legality and were not part of any organised enthusiast group (I tried talking to them first).
-
Good effort. How did you report them? Did you go direct to Tim Cross? Last time I spoke to him he was seriously talking about impounding vehicles, so he's the man to talk to - tim.cross@southyorks.pnn.police.uk
-
Did you take photos? Can you post them up?