UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: north_country_boy on June 03, 2009, 10:40:57 pm
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Anyone wanting to try Mecca at the Tor..... :o HOLD FIRE as the starting blocks have become dangerously loose, and are currently awaiting inspection by Sheffields team of expert civil engineers (aka Ste Mac & Keith Sharpholds)........before
Please avoid trying it until they have been removed and reattached, or secured in their current position, so this test piece isn't ruined forever...
Sorry if this pisses on anyones redpoint bonfire, but i'm sure you'll understand the importance more than anyone!! Cheers
I'll post up any news on tomorrows inspection by the above mentioned asap....
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That's ruined Teds regular Saturday morning jaunt! ;)
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Raven Tor is falling down!
Oh no!
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there looked to be mr reeve working on this last night, so all may well be fixed by now.
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there looked to be mr reeve working on this last night, so all may well be fixed by now.
Nope. Last night was the start of what may be a long process of stabilisation.......
The rock beneath the lose blocks is not in a good way, and the best course of action hasn't been decided yet....
Most of the blocks have are in safe hands at the moment, and Paul has gaffer taped over the area.
I'll try find out what the outcome of Ste & Keiths visit is tonight...
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If there is large scale looseness the best bet may be to pin the whole thing together with a few long resined in rods
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Yeah thats been mentioned Jon, however it seems that the blocks themselves are ok, but the shelf they all sit on/rock below is like cheese.....
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Perhaps they should bolt a giant cream cracker underneath it
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More likly to be an oatcake if left to Keith ;)
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Weekend plans cancelled, awaiting updates with interest.
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Well, I suppose that clears up my Mecca/Groove dilemma.
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I've got the photo's of the blocks as they were dismantled; however the email address i was given to send them too has come back with a failed delivery notice as their mailbox is full.
Admittedly i wasn't sending a compressed version, but i assume you'd want maximum detail.
Anyone else involved want to supply an email address i can send the photos to?
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I've got the photo's of the blocks as they were dismantled; however the email address i was given to send them too has come back with a failed delivery notice as their mailbox is full.
Admittedly i wasn't sending a compressed version, but i assume you'd want maximum detail.
Anyone else involved want to supply an email address i can send the photos to?
You could just host them on Imageshack (http://imageshack.us/) for free and Embed them here (http://ukbouldering.com/wiki/index.php/HowTo_Embed_Pictures_to_UKBouldering).
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Anyone else involved want to supply an email address i can send the photos to?
Hi Ally, you could send them to me and I will pass them on to the team.
My address is youngerthanhelooks@tor.crimp
Cheers
Ted
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Safely received the pics cheers Ally. God only knows how that block is still in place!
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You should have 4 emails with 8 photos by now.
You can remove your email address from the forum now and try and avoid the spam robots.....
Thanks,
Ally
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Only a mod can delete, no worries. See you out there!
Cheers
Ted
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I'll delete the post when you post the pics up :P
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My address is youngerthanhelooks@tor.crimp
..is that REALLY your email address Ted?!
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Genius.
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:lol: Haha flattery will get you everywhere!
Cheers for removing the address. I will post a few choice pics when i get home. i bet you can hardly contain yourselves! :)
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Actually I must be half asleep. It wasn't actually a compliment, you bastards! I got that the wrong way round! Maybe no mecca pics will be forthcoming now! :devangel:
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you should know better than to expect flattery on here ted!
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Just read on the other channel that people have considered renting a scaffold tower to assist with this repair job. Is this true? If so I have a Boss aluminium tower that I'm happy to be used if it would help.
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Thanks for the offer Nik, I will pass this onto the Repair Committee although i did hear talk of similar towers being available in Sheffield. For anyone interested in photos of the block, check out Keith's blog via the UKclimbing report.
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Here's the link to Keith's blog.
http://blog.keithsharplesphotography.co.uk/blog/_archives/2009/6/7/4214099.html (http://blog.keithsharplesphotography.co.uk/blog/_archives/2009/6/7/4214099.html)
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Now that’s a big job to repair something so big & complicated, I hope the skills are up to it. Sounds like we need to get together a few more of the most experienced sikas in the business. Personally I’d like to see:
Keith
Zippy
John Hart
And John W to make sure the resultant mess doesn’t look as bad some of the aforementioned’s sikatrocities.
If these boys can’t fix it no one can! Remember though that Tom Proctor employed a scaffolding pole and araldite to glue in the large Tom’s roof flake with the good crimp on it. Mecca just needs a bigger pole.
If it’s irreparable I’m sure Ste Mac will reclimb all his variants in a session at a couple of grades harder than the originals so all will not be lost if you climb 8c+ or harder. However this could signal retirement time for Keith & Paul so I’m sure they’ll pull out all the stops.
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Making a nice job of sika is easy. You just need a disposable brush. Step 1: apply sika generously, and stick all the bits back together.
Step 2: the boring/creative bit. Wait till the sika has virtually set, but is still malleable, then use the brush to brush off the excess, and blend into the rock. Step 3, leave to fully set.
This gets rid of the pallet knife marks and general messy bodgyness that comes from trying to mold sticky stuff with the consistency of wet mortar.
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Now that’s a big job to repair something so big & complicated, I hope the skills are up to it. Sounds like we need to get together a few more of the most experienced sikas in the business. Personally I’d like to see:
(http://jknujknu1.googlepages.com/sikachick.jpg)
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Can anyone tell me about sika?
More precisely, is it available in small amounts or does it have to be in bulk? Also, the sika website lists a lot of different products. Which is the one that has been used for rock repair and / or sticking to walls? And lastly, can I buy some in Sheffield?
Its not for use on real rock.
Cheers, Si.
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Cheapest place to buy is probably on ebay and you can normally get it by the tube.
If you are looking to bond holds to another type of wall it depends on the surface (and holds) to what would be the best stuff to use. Epoxy may well be your friend
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I was out there last night. the blocks have now been removed and lying on ground at base of route. The main block is massive and looks really hard to stick back on given the surface of the remaining rock. In addition are many other smaller bits and potentially we have the worlds most complex jigsaw puzzle on our hands. In hindsight (a wonderful thing) I do wonder if the blocks should have remained and the repairing solution to be insitu, ie to stabalise as best the area. I'd have thought it would have been safer to drill some metal reinforment holes right through the blocks and into the backing rock than it is now and would have led to less disruption. I am also concerned about the potential for any body to have ago, and I would advocate rather like Andy Harris that the job be picked up and co-ordinated by an experienced few. Looking at it I am sure mecca is not lost, it looks climable without the blocks but way harder of course. I hope though that a repair is attempted before we just declare it a new open project although I am sure some would advocate that direction of travel.
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The block is off. I took it off yesterday before it fell off. It took almost no effort and was caught and lowered in a cunningly made net. It now sits at the bottom of the crag ready for its future, which may be back at the start of the route, or more likely thrown into the nettles!
There are 2 large bits, and a lot of little ones. Sticking back on the jumble of pieces will be a jigsaw beyond most peoples ability. Gluing the block on before taking it off was not an option due to the amount of mud around the crack and smaller bits in between the big pieces. I don't think a satisfactory bond would have been made, especially considering the size.
It's beyond my ability to fix it, but the bits are there for someone to try if they wish. I am certain it can be climbed without, but needs a while for the scar to dry (very wet brown mud behind the block). There are good solid holds left. Though I have not done the new section I think it looks to be slightly harder, but possibly without changing the grade. Certainly won't go up to above F8c.
ste mcclure
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(http://www.alljigsawpuzzles.co.uk/shopping/jig/sm_imposs_beans.jpg)
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if the remaining rock is stable and it doesn't turn it into a crap 9a+ then there'd certainly be a case for leaving it as it is. i can't imagine those first few moves with the blocks in being a major contributor to the character of the route (this from someone who's never been on it).
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I don't remember anyone gluing the Chimes block back on. Is it not now considered a (regional) classic 8a+?
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I tend to agree that it's a more elegant solution to climb what's left rather than embark on a difficult and messy repair. That said I don't mind much either way and think the decision is one to be made by those most affected, i.e. people trying it now or wanting to get on it in future.
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For one, I don't mind if it gets a bit harder, but I'm more concerned by whether it's any good in it's current state. My vote would be to leave it for a little while, and if the new climbing turns out to be shite, attempt a repair.
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That sounds like the most sensible option.
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I've not seen the damage, but given that some quite big bits have dropped off I would recommend that no-one tries to fix it. Given the wet rock behind the section that has come off, any gluing activity will probably not work as a long term solution and the glued on bits will just come off again. Also given that its a big block thats come off, if you wanted to reattach it you would really have to bolt and glue it back on which is a big and pretty complicated job if it isn't going to look horrible.
Its not really like gluing the sidepull back on Superman (its off again, by the way) or sticking the jug back on the top of the Ace - its a big area of unstable rock at the bottom of a route, and trying to fix it with a pot of glue and some threaded bar is both unlikely to work and a massive load of work.
Its a damn shame that its Mecca thats falling to bits , but British limestone is not the most solid of rocks and bits regularly drop off. I think we should just let it be and try and reclimb it in its new state once its dried out again. If its harder than before, well, thats just the way it is. Or I could just rebuild the original start with some nice flourescent pink bolt-ons and then its sorted......
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I think we should just let it be and try and reclimb it in its new state once its dried out again. If its harder than before, well, thats just the way it is.
Well said Percy I'm sure you'll be down there real soon, I mean your hardly away from the place. real shame all the time you've put into working it. 8b+ 8c, I guess it all the same to you anyway.
Pink jugs though now there's a thought. red tube. Just one thing if anyone has bought some sika and some threaded bar, be a shame for it to go to waste, maybes it would work on the tree?
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I hope though that a repair is attempted before we just declare it a new open project although I am sure some would advocate that direction of travel.
Open project, aka a mildly diverting warm up for Steve.
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I was working Mecca.
Has anyone got any route recommendations of similar grade and quality, in that sort of area?
How much harder is Make It Funky?
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How about adding a bolt on/couple of bolt on holds (for heel toe?) to retain the grade at F8b+? More secure than gluing shattered rock. :devangel:
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I suggest gluing on a load of straws. For people to clutch at.
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I suggest gluing on a load of straws. For people to clutch at.
nearly as good as the bonjoy cracker quip ;D
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Well said Percy I'm sure you'll be down there real soon, I mean your hardly away from the place. real shame all the time you've put into working it. 8b+ 8c, I guess it all the same to you anyway.
You're not wrong. I'm gutted after all that effort....
My mistake - working stuff happens during the week. In my free time I prefer to go climbing. Working in your free-time? Not my bag!
Anyway, given my current magnificent (-ly shite) form, you wouldn't want me down there - I just clutter the place up hanging on bolts and causing queues
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Whilst we are on the topic of glue, it seems people are obsessed with Sika. It is being used as a generic term, like Hoover is for upright vacuum cleaners. See www.screwfix.com/cats/A236072/Sealants-Adhesives/Resin-Fixings (http://www.screwfix.com/cats/A236072/Sealants-Adhesives/Resin-Fixings).
It can also be found in Wicks or large B&Q's.
Use the mixer nozzle to get in deep cracks or mix by hand for small jobs.
This stuff is a cheaper version of what we use to fix bolts.
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Ok.... as it stands, or more aptly, as it lays below the Crag....
Steve has vacated to the South of France for a couple of weeks, and his opinion was that it would be climbable without a significant change in grade without the blocks, however this hasn't been attempted....
There are currently mixed emotions regarding whether they go back on from people who are currently trying the route, and until its been tried in its current state no decision can really be made regarding what to do next..... :agree:
Its been suggested the people with a vested interest get together sometime soon and try it, then devise a plan.... (i.e. Keith, Paul, Ted, Rob, Simon, Stu.....possibly others???)
Hopefully this will happen asap and if the decision is that the blocks aren't replaced then the following will be become compulsory attire for the next 30 days....
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aM31HJ641dJT/340x.jpg) Amen
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Ok.... as it stands, or more aptly, as it lays below the Crag....
Steve has vacated to the South of France for a couple of weeks, and his opinion was that it would be climbable without a significant change in grade without the blocks, however this hasn't been attempted....
Steve repeated Mecca, and then did it again with the Mecca extension, yesterday. He was of the opinion that while it was a bit harder it didn't change the grade.
Having seen how many pieces the block is in, and how little contact it actually made with the rest of the crag (most of it appeared to be mud), I see little chance of it being successfully repaired.
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Its been suggested the people with a vested interest get together sometime soon and try it, then devise a plan.... (i.e. Keith, Paul, Ted, Rob, Simon, Stu.....possibly others???)
the problem with just taking the opinions of those with a vested interest is that, almost by deffinition, you're unlikely going to get a balanced view. Those with a real vested interest are anyone who might want to try the route in the future, in years to come, and future generations. They who we owe it to to get this right, not just todays players. It might be heartbreaking to see your redpoint slide off into oblivion but they might have to just take one for the team. I'd also be wary of putting too much bias taking the opinion of someone who's, say for example, the wadfather of british sport climbing and has done the route countless of times and thus guessing if its 8b+ or 8c is in effect trying to estimate if he had to use 8.3% or 8.4% of his potential maximum output.
I think klemmow was on it last night too, although i wasn't particularly paying attention.
this discussion is probably academic though having seen the state of the block. you'd have more luck trying to reassamble air france flight 447.
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Wise words mate.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2q0q1pu.jpg)
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shit i really need to get some bachman turner overdrive on my phone.
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I think klemmow was on it last night too
He was on Make it Funky but gently caressing the Mecca block whilst it was on the floor
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He did also try the start of Mecca. He mentioned these moves would now be the crux. It looked hard.
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I'm in a speculative mood.
I've yet to see the bits but i'm already of the opinion that the old Mecca is dead. It's seems too big / complex a job likely to result in a sika abomination that would ultimately be unsafe.
Other routes have lost big holds and become harder (Chimes, Lockless etc). It's just a shame if said route was at your limit.
Whilst I've not seen the new climbing my guess would be that if it's missing 4 big jugs and a bomber footlock it will be sig. harder. Can't for a moment believe it's not 8c. Sounds like harder climbing into the original RH crimp and i imagine a v.hard move off this to the next crimp. Then it should be identical.
Originally the start into these 2 crimps probably weighed in at around Font 7a/+. My guess would be 7b-c?
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I can't help but think those looking for a F8c project in the Peak, who don't fancy the razorblade and mono on Make it Funky, are rubbing their hands together with glee.
I feel for those people close to redpoint success, but in the grand scheme of things...
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I'd also be wary of putting too much bias taking the opinion of someone who's, say for example, the wadfather of british sport climbing and has done the route countless of times and thus guessing if its 8b+ or 8c is in effect trying to estimate if he had to use 8.3% or 8.4% of his potential maximum output.
this discussion is probably academic though having seen the state of the block. you'd have more luck trying to reassamble air france flight 447.
I totally agree with that, however the people with a current vested interest and long standing knowledge of the route are best placed to know how much difference the loss of teh blocks will make.
I personally agree with Andy, i can't believe it won't make a very significant differance to the grade given that it will add potentially two hard moves, onto an already stiff 8b+....
But as you say its all academic if the blocks can't realistically go back on.......
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I do love the difference in opinion between Christian and Steve.
Hopefully I can get out there tomorrow and have a look. From my own point of view, I kind of hope it has gone up to 8c... :whistle:
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Looks like those that cant wait are alraedy rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect. If someone does the moves this weekend my guess is the blocks will never be glued back on. I await with interest from the sidelines of Weedkiller Chimes.
8c!! now thats very tempting, might even have to start doing some proper training again!!
Simon
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Steve repeated Mecca, and then did it again with the Mecca extension, yesterday.
of course he did. flipping heck.
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Seems like its all going back on.
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Any updates on this expected 'going back on'?
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Any updates on this expected 'going back on'?
Certainly looked 'in the process of' last Friday. Looking pretty neat so far. Though has the block been taken away, as doesn't seem much left on the floor to put back on?
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No change then.
Keith took the blocks away in his car.
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Almost done, the main blocks are on and the others will go on this weekend i suspect. Then its just teh process of finishing the surrounding area......watch this space, needless to say anyone wanting top try it....Hold fire until the reconstruction crew have finished.....Cheers
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Almost done, the main blocks are on and the others will go on this weekend i suspect. Then its just teh process of finishing the surrounding area......watch this non-space, needless to say anyone wanting top try it....Hold fire until the reconstruction crew have finished.....Cheers
:P
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Is it actually climbable yet?
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The holds are back in place, but there are some big gaps left to fill in I think. Looks a good job
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Is it actually climbable yet?
Not quite, unfortunately Mr Sharples has been completing an equally impressive restoration of his front bedroom window lintels!!
I believe Kristian was heading there over the weekend to do some more.....
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Seeing as it seems to have passed unmentioned....
Props to Pig :bow:
Despite those who said it wasn't possible Kris has meticulously restored the hold using £60 of glue and using up quite a number of evenings - probably the equivalent effort of rebolting and cleaning 10 routes.
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Good effort Kris! I'm sure it'll be a pro job.
....probably the equivalent effort of rebolting and cleaning 10 routes.
Unless Kris spent 10 long evenings fixing the route then I think that's rather an exaggeration. Ask Kris how long it took him to rebolt the Tor.
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I've told you a million times not to underexaggerate. You ask when you see him too - it did his swede in.
(Equivalent effort is not the same as time spent)