UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: shark on February 10, 2011, 08:56:56 am
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Before Duncan gets excited this with reference to your elbows going up when pumped rather than the offwidth technique. What is going on here physiologically ? Is it a stabilising muscle that is exhausted (in which case can it be trained) or is it more directly caused by a forearm pump ?
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AFAIK it is your body bringing in other muscles to support the ones that have become tired.
I THINK it brings in the rear delts predominantly to compensate for tired forearms. Think of it as the shoulder trying to take some of the weight on behalf of your forearms. That's where the 'winging' comes from i think - your shoulder engages and rises up which pushes your upper arm up and out.
Note the amount of 'thinks' in this post. This is just my musings sat on the sofa.
It involves muscles so it's got to be trainable.
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Just to confuse things further, doesn't it afflict boulderers too? Check out Doyle halfway through the lower video posted recently:
http://doylosblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/craftnant-circuit.html (http://doylosblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/craftnant-circuit.html)
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it was very well explained is some book i had...probably "one move too many".
bend your wrist backwards : your fingers tend to bend a little, isn't it?
That's because when you extend your wrist, you lenghten the path of your finger flexor's tendons. To balance this action and keep the same lenght, the tendons shorten their path at the fingers, bending them.
that is the reason why, when pumped, you raise your elbows : in a desperate attempt to extend your wrist as much as possible and help your finger flexors.
btw you normally do this by using your wrist extesors (ie you do it without even knowing every time you crimp), but when you're dead pumped either they are pumped as well as the flexors, or they are not effective enough
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Am I correct in thinking it only happens when boning-down on crimps?
Certainly can't recall any time I've seen it happen on slopers/openhanded stuff? :shrug:
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Interesting thread. As soon as I read the first post, I realised that this is something I do but had no real conciousness of it before. Is it a problem, do you think, with possible injury potential, or just a sign to rest for a while?
As for the slopers aspect - I think I only do it on edges, but is that because of biomechanics or because if your elbows go out on a sloper, you alter your COG and would fall off?
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it was very well explained is some book i had...probably "one move too many".
bend your wrist backwards : your fingers tend to bend a little, isn't it?
That's because when you extend your wrist, you lenghten the path of your finger flexor's tendons. To balance this action and keep the same lenght, the tendons shorten their path at the fingers, bending them.
that is the reason why, when pumped, you raise your elbows : in a desperate attempt to extend your wrist as much as possible and help your finger flexors.
btw you normally do this by using your wrist extesors (ie you do it without even knowing every time you crimp), but when you're dead pumped either they are pumped as well as the flexors, or they are not effective enough
I think it might be related to muscles being stronger in their mid-range than when closer to fully shortened. Crimping puts the finger flexors into a relatively shortened position. By extending the wrists you are effectively lengthening the finger flexors (further right on the length-tension curve below) allowing them to generate more tension. Holding slopers puts the finger flexors into a lengthened position already, so there is less to be gained by extending the wrist.
This might be a further reason for open-handing more.
Possibly...
(http://www.sonostics.com/Portals/85581/images/LengthTensionMuscle.png)
(Is that OK Simon?)
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its probably due to doing too many overhead squats.
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:lol:
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That's because when you extend your wrist, you lenghten the path of your finger flexor's tendons. To balance this action and keep the same lenght, the tendons shorten their path at the fingers, bending them.
that is the reason why, when pumped, you raise your elbows : in a desperate attempt to extend your wrist as much as possible and help your finger flexors.
btw you normally do this by using your wrist extesors (ie you do it without even knowing every time you crimp), but when you're dead pumped either they are pumped as well as the flexors, or they are not effective enough
That makes sense - once I read it a couple of times. Presumably that also explain the comment I read by Julian Saunders that open handed work helps your endurance.
(Is that OK Simon?)
I have put it through the offwidth filter and its come up clean :thumbsup:
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I think it might be related to muscles being stronger in their mid-range than when closer to fully shortened....
makes sense!
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Ring their necks and put them in a casserole, that'll stop them winging.