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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: duncan on October 21, 2017, 08:05:52 pm

Title: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: duncan on October 21, 2017, 08:05:52 pm
Brad Gobright and Jim Reynolds have broken the record for climbing The Nose with a time of 2:19. Previous record was 2:23 (Alex Honnold and Hans Florine, 2012).

Gobright and Reynolds have had multiple runs up The Nose this Autumn and were chipping away at the time.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Fultonius on October 21, 2017, 08:08:38 pm
Good effort and all that, but I can't help think speed records are pushing climbing to bad places. My thoughts are with Quinn Brett, who's not in a good place right now.

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Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: ashtond6 on October 22, 2017, 09:49:58 pm
I am puzzled as to how people manage these records when the Nose is full of slower climbers. I know they reckon on a lot of passing but, even so, that must surely eat up time? And there must always be sections when bolts/ cam placements vital for a fast time are already in use?

You just pull on them! If someone else's gear is already in them...
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: remus on October 22, 2017, 10:48:52 pm
I am puzzled as to how people manage these records when the Nose is full of slower climbers. I know they reckon on a lot of passing but, even so, that must surely eat up time? And there must always be sections when bolts/ cam placements vital for a fast time are already in use?

Id always assumed that timing your ascent was a pretty big part of getting a fast time. I guess you aim to go early in the morning, while everyone is still in their ledges rather than stuck mid pitch.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: duncan on October 23, 2017, 02:01:55 pm
This was Gobright and Reynolds 11th run this autumn so they will be well know to most people on the route. Most folk are happy to stop, let the faster team though, enjoying the spectacle from a trackside seat. A team moving this fast and efficiently, averaging less than 5 minutes a pitch, shouldn't delay the slower party more than a few seconds.

It's a much more of an issue for a slow single push team, who might take more than an hour over a complex pitch, encountering a big wall style party. Passing might considerably delay both teams so timing the ascent is then an important consideration.

Fultonious, I know what you mean about Quinn Brett. It's overt competition increasing the risk that we feel uncomfortable with. This happen more subtly in many aspects of climbing but it's starkly obvious here.

Tom Evans' report (http://elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-102117-new-nose-record).
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: duncan on May 30, 2018, 06:44:40 pm
To no great surprise, Alex Honnold and Tommy Caldwell have succeeded in breaking the record again, now about 2 hours and 10  mins. (source: everywhere).
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Will Hunt on May 30, 2018, 06:52:25 pm
Fucking hell, 9 mins off. When are we going to see sub 2 hours? And what risks are going to have to be taken?!
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: teestub on May 30, 2018, 10:18:05 pm
Whilst obviously impressive itself in a sort of time trial geeky way, hopefully this is Honnold and Caldwell training for something audacious.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: remus on June 05, 2018, 08:59:40 am
Sounds like they've gotten it down to 2hrs1min50secs, and with a rope jam that "probably cost us a couple of minutes".
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: tomtom on June 05, 2018, 09:03:28 am
Weren’t the two people who died there this week trying speed climbing (ie moving together)?

*starts safety debate/controversy*
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: cheque on June 05, 2018, 09:15:08 am
Weren’t the two people who died there this week trying speed climbing (ie moving together)?

I don’t think “trying” is the right term, they were apparently very experienced.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: teestub on June 05, 2018, 09:23:21 am
Tom, that's a dick post. From the coverage, 2 very experienced climbers died and what lead to the incident is currently unknown.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: tomtom on June 05, 2018, 09:38:09 am
Tom, that's a dick post. From the coverage, 2 very experienced climbers died and what lead to the incident is currently unknown.

A quick post more than a dick post I'd suggest... but point above taken. Just what I'd read in the Guardian. Trying should probably be replaced by doing..
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: duncan on June 05, 2018, 10:52:18 am
It’s too early to draw conclusions about the Freeblast accident since the details reported so far are unclear and, in some details, contradictory.

What is known is the the two pitches below Mammoth ledge where it happened are mostly VS in difficulty with, perhaps, a move of UK5a.  Linking the two pitches with a little simul.-climbing is a very common practice and hardly constitutes “speed climbing”. That’s not assuming this is what they were actually doing.

The known uncertainties have hasn’t stopped many people, some of whom should know a lot better, from immediately making the link to the ultra-fast ascents of The Nose. In this respect, tomtom has some very exalted company.

Whatever the final conclusions, it’s a desperately tragic accident to two people with young families.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: tomtom on June 05, 2018, 12:53:03 pm
Fair enough. I am wrong - posted in haste, sorry...
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: BrutusTheBear on June 05, 2018, 06:51:33 pm
Fair enough. I am wrong - posted in haste, sorry...
For reading the Grauniad?  :P
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: duncan on June 06, 2018, 03:52:12 pm
Fair enough. I am wrong - posted in haste, sorry...
For reading the Grauniad?  :P

Tom, this wasn’t meant as a dig at you. Many others have made this link.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Sidehaas on June 06, 2018, 05:25:46 pm
Just seen a friend - of-a-friend suggest on Facebook they've just done it again in ~1:58...
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: kelvin on June 06, 2018, 05:30:34 pm
I saw that but also another report of under two hours!
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: andy popp on June 06, 2018, 05:57:50 pm
https://twitter.com/bigUPclimbing/status/1004391391223537665
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: petejh on June 06, 2018, 07:49:48 pm
I can't be the only person who feels almost unmoved by the speed ascent craze. It's not that it isn't an impressive display of skill and calculated risk-taking, course it is. I'm just left thinking 'so what?', every time.

I'm also wondering if/when the fashion will hit these shores and which route it'll be - in our UK mini-way. Right Wall sub 2mins?  ::)
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: andy popp on June 06, 2018, 07:58:17 pm
I doesn't interest me that much either. That said it interests me a lot more than dry tooling does - I can't even think of that as a branch of climbing (sorry Pete, I think you do some, don't you?)
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Doylo on June 06, 2018, 08:21:26 pm
Not that arsed but I reckon the film will be a good watch.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: petejh on June 06, 2018, 08:33:20 pm
AP. Yeah I do lot each autumn, as training for winter mixed and because it's fun climbing in its own right and good for getting out and climbing on shitty weather days. It's funny lots of people criticise or at least 'don't get it'. I guess if they did it they might like it and see the point. Just like if I started speed-climbing the nose I'd probably like it and see 'the point'. BTW in my eyes anyone who says 'they can't see DT as a branch of climbing' marks themselves out as lacking something in imagination and open-mindedness.

I just wonder why the activity - racing up the exact same set of holds that you raced up last week/month/year in a slightly longer time - is publicised so much. Actually no, I don't wonder that. People sell jackets, shoes and hardware off it. But is the fad of racing up the same route over and over and over like it's a racing track moving climbing in a valuable direction? I'd say perhaps not, long term.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: teestub on June 06, 2018, 08:48:12 pm
Agree with Doyle that film should be great. As i previously noted hopefully Tommy and Alex have a bigger goal in mind. And I guess for those two being the Yosemite ‘locals’ they probably have some personal interest in claiming the record which is obviously a big deal amongst the El Capitan crowd.

What I find interesting about dry tooling is that it essentially got too easy with the equipment so they had to add in some rules to make it interesting again.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Oldmanmatt on June 06, 2018, 09:05:49 pm
AP. Yeah I do lot each autumn, as training for winter mixed and because it's fun climbing in its own right and good for getting out and climbing on shitty weather days. It's funny lots of people criticise or at least 'don't get it'. I guess if they did it they might like it and see the point. Just like if I started speed-climbing the nose I'd probably like it and see 'the point'. BTW in my eyes anyone who says 'they can't see DT as a branch of climbing' marks themselves out as lacking something in imagination and open-mindedness.

I just wonder why the activity - racing up the exact same set of holds that you raced up last week/month/year in a slightly longer time - is publicised so much. Actually no, I don't wonder that. People sell jackets, shoes and hardware off it. But is the fad of racing up the same route over and over and over like it's a racing track moving climbing in a valuable direction? I'd say perhaps not, long term.

Surely it’s all the same underlying motivation?

“Because I want to see if I can”

And, honestly, saying that any form of climbing is “not realy climbing” is like saying “Jazz isn’t really music”.

I mean, Jazz is akin to fingernails on a Blackboard to me but logic (irritatingly) insists I recognise it as music (but not that noise produced by “Boy Bands”, there I draw the line).


Edit:
Actually, what’s the difference between “climbing the same holds again and again” to get faster and the same statement applied to our pet projects? I know it certainly seems bizarre to my non climbing friends that I spend hours on the same silly lump of Granite each week. In fact I suspect those same friends would be far more sympathetic to the speed attempts, which look a lot more like a climbing Velodrome/Athletic Track endeavour.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: PipeSmoke on June 06, 2018, 09:11:28 pm
Speed climbing the nose is just a display of mastery and competition amongst many other things. It’s pushed human development on since forever. I personally have no reference point for how impressive it undoubtedly is but can’t hold it against anyone for giving it a go
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: smellyfox on June 06, 2018, 09:40:33 pm
It took me 2hrs to gear up and frig my way up the first pitch. To say this is impressive is an understatement. Wow!  :jaw:
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: moose on June 06, 2018, 09:59:17 pm
Speed climbing the nose is just a display of mastery and competition amongst many other things. It’s pushed human development on since forever. I personally have no reference point for how impressive it undoubtedly is but can’t hold it against anyone for giving it a go

I was chatting to my secretary a couple of weeks ago about non-work stuff, and I remarked that I was pretty content, as I had already achieved my goal for the year.  I briefly explained the RP process for sport routes, Googled a photo or two of the crag, and she seemed happy for me and moderately impressed (I appear such a shambling mess, she was probably surprised I get there unaided, let alone climb there).  Then she asked "what next", and I told her I was probably going to spend the next year or two failing to climb the route 2 meters to the right... and I felt all her appreciation just melt away!
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: petejh on June 06, 2018, 10:34:47 pm
Have you considered going back to the same route and seeing if you can climb it quicker..?
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: rosmat on June 06, 2018, 11:17:05 pm
AP. Yeah I do lot each autumn, as training for winter mixed and because it's fun climbing in its own right and good for getting out and climbing on shitty weather days. It's funny lots of people criticise or at least 'don't get it'. I guess if they did it they might like it and see the point. Just like if I started speed-climbing the nose I'd probably like it and see 'the point'. BTW in my eyes anyone who says 'they can't see DT as a branch of climbing' marks themselves out as lacking something in imagination and open-mindedness.

I just wonder why the activity - racing up the exact same set of holds that you raced up last week/month/year in a slightly longer time - is publicised so much........ But is the fad of racing up the same route over and over and over like it's a racing track moving climbing in a valuable direction? I'd say perhaps not, long term.

‘Cos it the most famous route in the world?

‘Cos it mind blowing to think it’s possible?

Don’t think it matters a jot if it’s moving climbing in a valuable direction? Why should it?
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: andy popp on June 07, 2018, 12:34:47 am
BTW in my eyes anyone who says 'they can't see DT as a branch of climbing' marks themselves out as lacking something in imagination and open-mindedness.

To be honest, my comment was at least semi-tongue in cheek. Yes, I have zero interest in it but, obviously, my opinion makes not one difference to dry tooling's status as one of the games climbers play. Given the range of styles of climbing I've engaged in over the years, I don't think I'm particularly lacking in imagination and open-mindedness.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: shark on June 07, 2018, 07:14:54 am
They did it. Astounding. On instagram:

patagonia_climbAfter climbing the Nose in its entirety 12 times over the course of three weeks leading up to this morning, @tommycaldwell and @alexhonnold clocked in at 1:58:07.
“Moving that fast feels like flow state a little bit. It commands all of you.”
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: remus on June 07, 2018, 07:38:25 am
Fuck me, that's outrageous.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: SA Chris on June 07, 2018, 10:01:23 am
Live and let live. Speed attempts seem to be limited to The Nose, comp routes and not a lot of other things, apart from a few Alpine routes and enchainments.

I hold no desire to do it, but as a (moderately competitive) runner and cyclist i can see the appeal in doing the "same thing only faster".

It's an amazing achievement, whether participating in it appeals to you personally or not.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: petejh on June 07, 2018, 11:29:57 am
Just to be clear, I'm not questioning the outrageous level of skill, talent and boldness needed to race up the nose. I'm questioning why 'the climbing media' consider it to be of such significance.

With just about all other climbing achievements that push the limits, there's transferability to the rest of the climbing world. A hard first ascent or enchainment in Patagonia is relatable to alpine-climbers around the world trying routes in their own mountains; Ondra and Megos are inspiring to sport climbers everywhere pushing their grades on their own crags. To pick the most maligned game - Jeff Mercier doing hard dry-tooling is inspiring and relatable to mixed climbers and dry-toolers worldwide trying their own routes. Every other genre of climbing is played out elsewhere and the rules of the game are broadly similar. A hard French 8c trad first ascent in New Zealand is relatable to someone playing the same game in Canada, Austria or Wales. 
This is a very localised game, involving a very small number of Yosemite locals and blow-ins, on one route, repeated ad nauseam. Someone more cynical than me might say it's typically insular of the US.
I can't see how the rest of the climbing world will remain interested unless there's a take-up of the idea of speed-ascents around the climbing world. A Verdon Gorge route for the French. A route in Switzerland, a quirky little UK version, a Spanish one, etc. Unless that happens I predict a rapid loss of public interest by just about everyone outside the western US. And if the idea of speed ascents becomes fashionable then that to me seems a pretty stupid direction for climbing to go in. Even stupider than dry-tooling! 
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Will Hunt on June 07, 2018, 11:38:19 am
a quirky little UK version

The quirky little UK versions are, off the top of my head: the Cuillin Ridge Traverse (with winter/greater traverse/super Cuillin variations); and the Staffordshire Nose.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: teestub on June 07, 2018, 11:45:10 am
Well if nothing else, when it is reported, it gives people something new to moan about for a short while.

I think the increased interest at the moment is probably directly related to those taking part, and now Caldwell has the hardest climb in the park and this record, the narrative for the movie writes itself.

I don't think it's hard to grasp that this is a 'thing' in the climbing world, much like the Eiger Nordwand record or on a wider playing field the Bob Graham or the Paddy Buckley. It's the most famous climb on the best trad crag in the world. Challenges such as this gather legend and stories around them.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: SA Chris on June 07, 2018, 11:54:48 am
the Cuillin Ridge Traverse

Good comparison. Otherwise lots of examples of people doing 100 routes in a day, Caff's 100 Extremes in a day etc Lakes Classic Rock routes in a day, etc.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: petejh on June 07, 2018, 12:17:27 pm
Yeah I suppose if I wasn't stuck at home with a throat infection I wouldn't be arsed to pass comment. Not moaning. Still seems to me a locally significant 'thing', at the extreme end of a spectrum of esoteric climbing games. A bit like the others mentioned, but they don't garner worldwide media attention despite requiring similar levels of mastery.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: SA Chris on June 07, 2018, 12:21:32 pm
I think the media profile is caused by Alex Honnold Profile + Yosemite  / El Cap + something punters can almost relate to. Bit like Dawn Wall hubbub.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: duncan on June 07, 2018, 01:48:29 pm
That’s a relief, we can all relax. I think this record will stick for a bit. 

This is a very localised game, involving a very small number of Yosemite locals and blow-ins, on one route, repeated ad nauseam. Someone more cynical than me might say it's typically insular of the US.

There is a decent case for saying The Nose is the best-known rock climb in the world (what is the competition?). It doesn’t yet have the notoriety of classic mountaineering challenges like North Face of The Eiger but it’s catching up. It attracts folk from all over the world, we’d have to ask Tom Evans what proportion of ascentionists are un-American but I’d guess more than half. The Nose speed record has been held by French (probably), Swiss, British, Canadian, German, Japanese and even Coloradan climbers, so I think it is reasonable to say it has more than local interest. I’ll let you tell Alexander Huber he’s a “blow in”!

The fascination is really only about one route. The time for aid-soloing Zodiac was recently improved by Dave Allfrey to 10 hours or so (such a shame it’s not still Russ Mitrovich’s bonkers ropeless ascent). This has raised barely a ripple of interest, which is exactly as it should be. 

As to whether speed climbing is more or less contrived than dry-tooling, my 8 year old son totally gets speed climbing...
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Fiend on June 07, 2018, 02:10:19 pm
I quite like Pete's perspective on this. I have little against the activity (unlike, say, the horror of winter climbing), but it leaves me totally disinterested.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Danny on June 08, 2018, 12:07:08 am
I agree with Pete entirely. Especially considering the credentials of these two climbers. Compared to all the other stuff they've done I think "meh" is my prevailing feeling. Although some of the photos with big loops of slack are wild.
Title: Re: The Nose speed Record broken
Post by: Johnny Brown on June 08, 2018, 09:54:00 pm
I give you PETER FUCKING CROFT: 

Quote
Then, in 1992, Croft and Florine teamed up to establish a time of 4:22, yet another record and one that would stand for nine years.

“When I got a speed record with Hans,” Croft recounts, “we get to the top and he is flipping out because we beat the record. And I’m like, ‘OK great, it’s early, let’s go do something else—we got tons of time,’ and he looked at me like I was speaking a different language. He wanted to go to the deli.”

So, according to Croft, Florine headed for the deli while he went off to climb by himself, free-soloing the Steck-Salathe on the Sentinel, Northeast Buttress on Higher Cathedral, and East Buttress on Middle Cathedral.

“I had a great day,” he says.

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Great piece: https://www.climbing.com/news/in-depth-the-evolution-of-the-nose-speed-record/
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