UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: mowern on October 26, 2007, 11:16:17 am
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Rockfax Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide now only £5 from RocknRun and direct from Rockfax.
Just thought some on here might like to know this.
Unfortunately I have no need for 2 copies.
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Isn´t a new Yorkshireguide supposed to be published sometimes soon?
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Thats probably pretty likely, I guess. Am probably guilty of a hasty post there I reckon.
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Isn´t a new Yorkshireguide supposed to be published sometimes soon?
AFAIK there's a new guide in the offing, written by Steve Dunning.
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Is there any approximate date of release?
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Before the end of the year. Which year I'm not sure ???
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soon, i am told, by the end of november...wait and buy that rather than an out of date one!
so...rock and run/rockfax are selling all copies of old one off i assume.
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No they're brand new ones at a fiver, get 'em while they're hot! ;)
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Incidentally, I have a few PDF sample pages which look good and yes it is in Font grades.
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and yes it is in Font grades.
Praise the Lord!
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its true, gradewise yorkshire is being dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century ;) nice one steve.
looking forward to the guide. yorkshire deserves it - i mean for fucks same some of the problems are good enough to be in the peak. lets get startled yeah.
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No they're brand new ones at a fiver, get 'em while they're hot! ;)
brand new old stock. nice way with words there greg ;)
can you post up the sample pages???
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I'm was worried about the excellent looking new guide luring more people up from the peak, but then that driving thread last month assured me this would not be the case - think of the extra mileage ;D
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don't worry, cofe's new wheels are so fuel efficient it practically churns out fivers as you bomb up the M1, like being given a lift in a cash machine.
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Not much room for mats though homes
(http://www.marimonrad.no/works/photography/comissioned_work/M_MAGAZINE_2004-06/Uk2006/uk_green_car_2.jpg)
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(http://www.marimonrad.no/works/photography/comissioned_work/M_MAGAZINE_2004-06/Uk2006/uk_green_car_2.jpg)
Crikes!!! Wouldn't you be better off on a bike?
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It should be out by the end of the month :please:
There will be a gurt big pile of them half way down Pateley Bridge high street, so you can get one on the way to Brimham. :great:
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Why the F... in Font grades, yorkshiregrit.com has used v grades happily for years. Why change now!
Guppy :spank:
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Because everywhere in Europe uses font grades? And climbing in yorkshire is much more akin to that in font than it is in Hueco?
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Why the F... in Font grades, yorkshiregrit.com has used v grades happily for years. Why change now!
Because V grades are wank. You should be celebrating.
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Because V grades are wank. You should be celebrating.
Stop beating around the bush. Say what you mean... ;)
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Why the F... in Font grades, yorkshiregrit.com has used v grades happily for years. Why change now!
I see that more and more Font grades have been popping up on the Yorkshiregrit site in recent months, probably because V8 in Yorkshire can mean anything from 7a to 7b+, so isn't really a very useful indicator of how easy/tricky you're likely to find a given problem (as we've all discussed about a million times on about a thousand other threads).
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basically most places now use font grades. especially the areas that count. i.e. the peak and wales (even if they're disguised as faux-V). not to mention the rest of europe, a continent of which we are part. why should yorkshire be different? If you want to continue being able to do a yorkshire V8 and not know whether its 7a+ or 7b+ then that seems odd to me.
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not to mention the rest of europe, a continent of which we are part. why should yorkshire be different?
you live in sheffield and need to ask this question.
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probably because V8 in Yorkshire can mean anything from 7a to 7b+, so isn't really a very useful indicator of how easy/tricky you're likely to find a given problem (as we've all discussed about a million times on about a thousand other threads).
To be fair - and yes I advocate the use of Font grades (like you cared ;)) - that's not because there is anything wrong with the grading system, it's because it's been misused. I could grade a Font7a, Font7b in much the same way, thus it's my fault not the system.
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Thanks for the picture Sypeland. I was presented with two of those sometime ago... firmer than rugby balls. Sadly I saw her last week in Presto pushing a pram and they were tucked in her socks. :( But I suppose its a bit like doing Childsplay before the footholds turned into ledges. :thumbsup:
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As William Burroughs said about Spare Ass Annie, "I don't know what he said, but it was funny."
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any news on the release date for the new guide? Last I heard was the end of November but there doesn't seem to be any hype and it's nearing december now
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Last I heard there were some previews doing the rounds for potential advertisers. Once they've got those back it'll need finishing off, print times then usually run to 3 weeks at least... be amazed to see it before 2008 basically.
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I saw Steve yesterday, if it all goes to plan (it's in the hands of the printers now) the guide will be out on the 13th January. I hope to have them on line soon so people can forward order them for dispatch on that day. (or the 14th as the 13th is a Sunday!) :great:
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Is it still on course for a January release[It was going to be a christmas pressent!!]...read somewhere there was a website...total climbing but dont seem to be up and running?
Guppy
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I believe it's at the printers! After that the binders then the shops :bounce: :dance1: :bounce: :dance1: :bounce:
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ru and jon barton should know more. cofe should have the inside knowledge here as well. any insights?
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I presume you mean about printing? Depends where it's being done, if it needs shipping from China, whether their machine breaks down, whether their favourite customer rings up and persuades them to put their urgent Xmas job on first, if they work weekends, etc etc.
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no i didn't mean that. had a look at the previews on t'internet. it's exactly the same as the peak bouldering guide so presumed you guys must have had something to do with it
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anyone got a link to the previews?
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I presume you mean about printing? Depends where it's being done, if it needs shipping from China, whether their machine breaks down, whether their favourite customer rings up and persuades them to put their urgent Xmas job on first, if they work weekends, etc etc.
I got the impression from Steve ( I might be wrong) that it was being bound and I assume printed in Nottingham.
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The books are to be bound the week beginning 14th of January. The guides are being printed in the UK and we shall have them in stock shortly afterwards. More details can be found at www.total-climbing.com
Cheers Steve D.
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Looks amazing Ste, good work, can't wait!
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Sample of Slipstones here:
https://secure.mmm.co.uk/sei/s/1284/f108.pdf
Looks good :great:
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Also
Looks good
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"Village of Colwling...."
Shurely shome mishtake?
Looks nice, but where are the grades?
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exactly what I was thinking
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nice one for posting the pdf's dylan!
weird tho... some problems have grades, some don't... matts roof doesn't get a grade, buffy does.. handy andys does, andy brown's doesn't... etc etc..
must be some reason for this I cant suss..
was really psyched for the arrival of this.. not so sure now... my dreams of 'the end of print' meets 'bouldering on yorkshire grit vol 3' seem to have been dashed.. oh well
still, looks good though..
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I notice page numbers are missing too so I assume these are demo pages which are incomplete. I see Dreamland has gone down to 7a, and Micro Corner is 6c (gulp).
Have to buy it of course :great:
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I assume these are demo pages which are incomplete.
hopefully...
noticed play dead hasn't been included on the egg.. not to sure about the ethics of asking people to fork out twenty quid and then refer to a website to see some of the 'variations' that exist..
still, looks good though..
beginning to change my mind about this..
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Quick note: Those PDF's are of uncomplete material, they were merely put online to show the layout/style of the guide. It is therefore unfair to judge detail (grades, description, spelling etc.) as this is not from the fully completed and proofread version of the guide, just to show general aesthetics.
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Yeah, Greg. I was just going to say that very point. Although, if Steve's reading this, maybe it would be a good idea to replace the draft versions with one of his final versions, even if it's on his website or something. It's worth having them up in their full, finished glory.
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The PDFs that appeared on here earlier this week were as Greg says, incomplete (early copies that were used to gain feedback). But for those of you who are interested in seeing a glimpse of the finished product then check out UKC (Articles: Preview- Yorkshire Gritstone Vol 1)now!
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is there any value in getting stuff on here too?
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With contributions from the likes of Alex Messenger and John Coefield, the pictures epitomize what bouldering on grit is all about; crisp winter days, blue skies and having a laugh with your mates!
Boom!
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I bet Alex is made up.
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No, unfortunately he's real. I've seen him.
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i'm depressed that its taken 5 hours and 23 minutes for someone to make that wisecrack. sharpen up guys, please.
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Hi
Big thanks to all of you who pre-ordered our guide. The books are now in stock and ready to be dispatched.
www.total-climbing.com
Cheers
Steve D
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First I shall buy this.
Second, the new 7s & 8s.
Because Yorkshire Grit is more important.
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For anyone wanting a copy en route to Brimham, Whitehouses or Slipstones I have a pile in the shop.
On the High Street in pateley Bridge. :great:
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Outstanding effort boys. Am well pleased :thumbsup:
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Sypeland: I ain't buying nothin' from you 'til you get your old Avatar back.
OK, that's a lie. I'll be ordering soon. Looking forward to it.
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Anyone who's got one care to give an opinion on it? All you dared hope for?
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I've got a (borrowed) copy but don't know anything about Yorkshire. Looks nice though.
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Anyone who's got one care to give an opinion on it? All you dared hope for?
I think its ok.. features most of the main problems.. but there's a lot missing imho .. obviously they decided to leave eliminates out, but still, some quality lines of all grades that should be in, aren't.. visually I think its ok.. though not a patch on Ru Davis' guide.. biggest plus for me is the use of font grades and some of the stuff that was overgraded in the last guide has been sorted..
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I like it. A few silly typos and one big grade error, but some wonderful photos. Its great having pretty much all the hard stuff, with font grades, in a guide at last. Like Ru's guide, its sometimes pretty sparse under 7a and no doubt it'll get stick for that but for the serious boulderer it more than works and focuses upon the stuff that I want to go and try. The lines are well described and although there isn't much added info beyond what you need to find the crag and then the problems, it has a nice feel to it. I've been poring over it since I got in Saturday night and found the parcel and I'm even more utterly psyched to go climbing than usual (which is fairly hard to achieve to be honest).
Other than the one obvious grade error (go search) the grades generally tie in with my thoughts and those of my mates, so that's good after years of the Al C-D guide's randomness. As someone who isn't local to the crags (although I climb a lot in the Widdop/Earl area) it appears to be pretty comprehensive, but I can imagine locals feeling that there is stuff missing. Looking forward to the next volume.
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Got my copy this weekend.... far too many problems missing and I don't see pictures been the best way of showing where some problems go.
Grades seem OK however. need it to stop raining to really test it
Guppy :-\
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one big grade error
Interested to know what?
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Buy it and see.
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dave's favourite V10?
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There are 2 many shots of some guy blowing a trumpet, although the trumpet has been photoshoped out
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Interested to know what?
It's to do with warm canines and cheese...
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Dog Brie?
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Hot Tooth Village People
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Oooh, so close... ::) ;)
Hot Tooth Village People
Incisive Chris.
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When it's hot my dog likes to eat fromage, but I reckon it's bad for him so I just feed him on normal dog food with plenty of water.
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Nah, not a hope Simon. Waaaay off the mark there... ;)
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what problem is it on the cover of vol 2?
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No idea.
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No idea.
Where's that?
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Well, if you must know, i initially thought it was Cypher, but doesn't look right, plus Slipstones are in vol 1. Then i thought it was at Simon Seat, but can't remember name, then realised that's bollocks too. So i edited the lot away, but didn't bargain for smart comments.
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McNab at Lord's Seat
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but didn't bargain for smart comments.
Who said anything smart? Not I.
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http://www.yorkshiregrit.com/photo.html?id=lords__wall_front_1
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looks excellent.
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It is - worth the walk.
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After having a decent look today, I think its fairly disappointing (the guide)
lots of stuff missing, photo topo's not any better (sometimes worse) than previous guide and I recon a lot of the lower grade stuff (6's) is well sandbagged.
my 3.5pence worth.
It does look the business tho
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It is - worth the walk.
Lords seat is a fantastic place and worth the walk/trudge. Lots to do at most grades and if you get bored (which you won't) there is Simons seat. Apparently Hen arete over at Hen Stones is a great problem and worth seeking out.
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(http://www.theleedswall.co.uk/ymc/images/sharphaw/henarete.jpg)
Hen arête.
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that looks good too. can you toast both seats in a day then? is it worth waiting a month or two before visiting?
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You can visit both in a day for sure, but you'll be back!
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It's a long day out from Sheff what with the drive and walk. Worth making a weekend of. There are some good campsites and great pubs in the area.
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The best highball/short route project I've ever seen also resides at Simon's Seat...
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There are 2 many shots of some guy blowing a trumpet, although the trumpet has been photoshoped out
You mean this fellow?
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2249/2213872491_b2808094e7_o.jpg)
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Nice orange t-shirt. Suits the overall look.
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Nice wig. Suits the overall look.
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He's at it again!
(http://www.zen59200.zen.co.uk/Adam/Galleries/cofehourglass.jpg)
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Shit, most of us use a toilet ::)
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simons and lords are both shit,in fact all of yorkshire is.you'd be much better off staying in the peak. :whistle:
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and yet again, louis armstrong on the case:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/Dave/other/johnWG.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/Dave/Peak/johnmono01.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/Dave/Peak/johnpogles01.jpg)
thats only a fraction of his repertoire though - hows about a touch of Blue Steel?
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/Dave/Peak/johnhump.jpg)
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and yet again, louis armstrong on the case:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/Dave/other/johnWG.jpg)
You've gotta love Kim's "suckling pig" spotter look.
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he's my bitch.
i am both hurt and offended by those pics. that said, i'm still unable to not suck my face into my mouth when climbing for some reason.
dave's bottom pic is whiskey galore at brimham, one of best probs on grit i reckon.
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dave's bottom pic is whiskey galore at brimham, one of best probs on grit i reckon.
Whats the problem in the pic above it? the third down? ...looks awesome!!
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i am both hurt and offended by those pics.
I'm sorry but I just nearly pissed myself at that torrent of puffed cheeks. Not at you really, more at the way that your mates just threw those photos at the forum. Quality.
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3rd one down - Pogles Wood at Gardoms?
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(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/Dave/Peak/johnmono01.jpg)
Is this Monomantel at Cocking Tor? You manage it/do owt else in the vicinity?
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3rd one down - Pogles Wood at Gardoms?
was about to say the same.
Damn!!! you lot are well good at photoshopping all those trumpets out
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Is this Monomantel at Cocking Tor? You manage it/do owt else in the vicinity?
seem to remember i was almost getting top. hard to get a foot up to pop again, and not much top to hang. don't think anyone else did it.
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Here's another fellow not quite reaching the top.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/430576005_f8e4121004.jpg)
Can't remember now if I lanked it or got a foot up
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i was getting right foot up there and trying to go again, with varying degrees of staticism and dynamism. can't see fuckholds which doesn't help. there's also a false top and then a real top too. some good probs around there i reckon.
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Have another one
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2196/2214441123_7bec9b1ab1.jpg)
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sorry, just to get back on track, everybody i've spoke to said the new guide is shit
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Amazing - have you actually managed to see a copy to form your own opinion? I think I already know the answer.....
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Stoppit with the photos of Peak stuff! Jeez, :off: or what?
I had a quick perusal of the guide, I don't think it can be called shit in any way, shape or form (unless you're a peakophile)...
I am disappointed by the ru-guide style landscapeness. It's just not that good, I don't think, what's wrong with portrait? Too oldskool?
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Interested to know what?
It's to do with warm canines and cheese...
I thought it did look a bit fishy. I know the other method to mine is harder but not that hard. Oh well, that's my first 7c+ out of the window ;)
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Stoppit with the photos of Peak stuff! Jeez, :off: or what?
we did veer somewhat. here's a pic of yorks to help realign the thread:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/John/climbing/BarryKingsize_JC.jpg?t=1201211090)
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we did veer somewhat. here's a pic of yorks to help realign the thread:
Quality snap Cofe - and even more quality in your new avatar.
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That's a brilliant photo of a brilliant problem- The second set of beta I've seen though, is the undercut that Rachel Whatsername uses in the Quest any good? Need to get on this, almost worth the walk-in alone.
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Stoppit with the photos of Peak stuff! Jeez, :off: or what?
we did veer somewhat. here's a pic of yorks to help realign the thread:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/John/climbing/BarryKingsize_JC.jpg?t=1201211090)
This is a great photo but the sky looks photoshopped, is it?
Also, the guide is not shit, it just looks like it would have benefited from another few weeks on the proofreading circuit.
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that high hold in the groove (undercut?) has apparently got subtley worse recently so when we were there no-one used it with the RH to static it. youths with a cavalier attitude to limb-preservation may want to do it like avid in that photo and fully dyno, but everyone else was getting feet higher (i used a high outside edge of LF) to kind of pull-lurch for the top.
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This is a great photo but the sky looks photoshopped, is it?
get a grip man. ::)
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Also, the guide is not shit, it just looks like it would have benefited from another few weeks on the proofreading circuit.
I counted 12 typos on page 245, and two missing problems. Fat punters roof is most certainly not a problem of outstanding quality and I'd like to have seen an action photo of Whitehouses too - I've got some good ones in my collection as has YG. On the previous page the typos continue, the grid reference is wrong and the road marked on the map as The Raikes is actually for local access only - Let's not annoy the locals.
Having said all this, Yorkshire grit did need a new bouldering book - I'm just not sure that this photo-topo format reveals its true quality.
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ok i havent had time to read this thread, but looking at a review on cocktalk it appears that neither volume covers bridestones?! is this correct? this would seem reason enough not to buy it imho.
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bridestones was left out for erosion issues.
i'm actually surprised bank's problem start to the left arete at whitehouses was left out, looked pretty good to me.
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yep, bridestones wasn't included because the rock is suffering from too much traffic.. fair enough I guess.. though to then stick a photo of someone doing horror arete within the first few pages seems a bit contradictory..
on the whole and having had more time to check the guide out I really do think its crap...
so many problems missing, not convinced by the layout, no index, no graded list.. could go on....
yorkshire really needed a new guide.. but not this one..
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bridestones was left out for erosion issues.
i'm actually surprised bank's problem start to the left arete at whitehouses was left out, looked pretty good to me.
Yeah I noticed that one. Cone Head Bobstar is not in either, looks like they missed some of the "problems without images" on Yorkshirgrit.com.
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yep, bridestones wasn't included because the rock is suffering from too much traffic.. fair enough I guess.. though to then stick a photo of someone doing horror arete within the first few pages seems a bit contradictory..
on the whole and having had more time to check the guide out I really do think its crap...
so many problems missing, not convinced by the layout, no index, no graded list.. could go on....
yorkshire really needed a new guide.. but not this one..
Whilst I agree regarding the index and graded list, the layout is pretty much the same as Ru's guide which most people on here seem to like.
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Graded lists are for train spotters and people who largely care for the difficuly aspect of bouldering; they're something I can give or take.
An Index of problems ordered alphabetically giving a page ref for it's place in the book is perhaps the most useful part of any guide.
The NWB guide was ruined by the lack of this very useful feature. I'd rather lose photo's/disclaimer/helicopter notes than an index.
How do you plead? By that I mean why-oh-why was it ommitted?
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the thing about the layout for me is that having used so many photos per page the amount of space left to write up the problems seems pretty minimal.. I think ru's guide mixes illustration and photos far more effectively..
also I think the lack of information is pretty glaring throughout and doesn't acknowledge a lot of tradition.. especially with regard to eliminates.. the back of the calf being a good example.. like houdini I'd rather a few photos were missing and more info was included.. no two squirrels / drey at caley is a bit of a shocker.. as for me these are two of the best problems at the crag.. but then even bob's bastard was left out..
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Guidebook writers must strike a finer balance between pics and text - what are you making here? A photo album? There's is probably a market for that; perhaps they should've published both?
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er.. when I say eliminates.. I meant 'face diagrams', if that makes any sense, akin to the minus ten wall diagram in the new peak guide... I'd have liked a few of those..
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back off topic, i dug out the original of the barry kingsize photo:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/John/climbing/BarryKingsizeMoon_JC.jpg?t=1201268713)
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Nice one Cofe :lol:
My copy dropped through the letterbox this morning. The first thing that struck me is the lines on the topo are not curves, but a series of straicht lines. I don't like the look of that very much, curves are far neater.
I'll have a proper look and post more later.
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nice one keith, that must be one hell of a studio strobe you used to light that.
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This is a great photo but the sky looks photoshopped, is it?
get a grip man. ::)
Why would I want one? There's no cable cars round our way. http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/gripman
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touchet. ;)
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There's no way I'm touchin' it, Gaylord!
Oh! You mean touche?
(sorry ;))
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My copy dropped through the letterbox this morning. The first thing that struck me is the lines on the topo are not curves, but a series of straicht lines. I don't like the look of that very much, curves are far neater.
I'll have a proper look and post more later.
I hopefully packed it so it didn't get damaged :)
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yorkshire really needed a new guide.. but not this one..
I think this sums it up nicely
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There's no way I'm touchin' it, Gaylord!
Oh! You mean touche?
(sorry ;))
pedant ;D
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I hopefully packed it so it didn't get damaged :)
Yeah, it's fine thanks. I could have done with some of those hand warmers yesterday too :lol:
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pedant ;D
Si si, muchos pedantos Senor Gringo.
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I've found quite a few typos so far. Plus lots of grades that don't match the general consensus on YorkshireGrit. Is that groove right of Splashdown (Widdop) really 6c? I find it harder than the wall left of Splashdown.
But it looks neat.
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I don't have a Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide. Am I better off buying the old one, or the new one?
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I would be tempted to say go for the old one plus use Jon's site to supplement it and get more accurate grades. The new guide is nice etc but it's 20 quid and you can get the old one cheapo.
But remember I'm coming from the aspect of already having the old guide etc etc.
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I must admit that I'm disappointed by the new guide too; both in terms of its basic planning and layout, and by its execution. The timeline is as pointless a waste of paper as I have ever seen, possibly only included for the sake of a weak joke about Thatcherism. That it is included rather than a problem index seems bizarre, especially given the otherwise slavish devotion to the style of Ru's guide. And, whilst I accept that any selective guide cannot by definition include everything, there do seem to be some perverse omissions. For instance, the absence of a proper eliminates diagram for the Calf at Ilkley seems particularly strange given its place in Yorkshire climbing history and its status as pretty much the only weatherproof venue in the county. It just seems such a missed opportunity, I suspect I am not alone in the number of drizzly days spent under those 30 degrees of desperation, with old YGB guide in hand, trying to link numbered holds and muttering "surely that's a misprint?". Similarly, but to a lesser extent, the lack of Crucifix (Almscliff) and Clingen Face (Woodhouse) eliminates is a bit of a surprise.
I admit my opinions on the above, and matters such as the crags included (West Vale rather than Crookrise etc) can be discounted as subjective matters of personal style. However, what is definitely less open to a differing interpretation is the tremendously inept execution. An preliminary scan has revealed several examples of problem descriptions and topo lines being mixed up / missing, e.g. on the Seventh Wave at Widdop, or with Rageh Omar / Under Rumsfeild (sic) at Whitehouses. The lines on the topos are ugly and look like they have been clumsily drawn on with the free drawing package in Word. The number and frequency of spelling mistakes is utterly appalling and frankly insulting to the purchaser. Reading the guide in a bad mood induced a mental sensation akin to reading a beloved novel rendered into teenage "txt spk" whilst listening to someone scratch a nail down a blackboard. For pity's sake how difficult would it have been to get a few friends to proof read the initial drafts? It is not as though most of the mistakes would have required any specialist knowledge to identify, just a remedial ability to read English and perhaps match numbers in the descriptions to those in the diagrams. Perhaps too much time was spent agonising about the grades of barely climbed "test-pieces" and too little spent performing basic duties to the reader. Far more professionalism is on display in the free topos at Lakesbloc, yorkshiregrit, and in some posts to these forums (e.g. the Churnet thread, some Woodhouse Scar stuff I recently received). I feel more sad than angry though, a lot of hard work has obviously gone into it, the are some nice photos and I look forward to using it to plan future days out, but the overall impression has been poisoned by avoidable clumsiness.
Hey ho.. the guide has done something though. Lots of photos of problems, even if the material around them is suspect, has finally got me feeling a post-Christmas inclination to leave my Leeds Wall comfort zone, brave the hideous weather, and do some cranking. Worth it for that I guess, especially if I get a few good days at crags I have not yet visited (Scout Crag, Dove Stones etc). Although when I do venture out, chances are that most often it'll be with my tattered old YGB guide, held together with Duck Tape and covered in annotations from the yorkshiregrit site.
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What an excellent review that was moose and what a balanced gentleman you appear to be.
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I must admit that I'm disappointed by the new guide too; both in terms of its basic planning and layout, and by its execution. The timeline is as pointless a waste of paper as I have ever seen, possibly only included for the sake of a weak joke about Thatcherism. That it is included rather than a problem index seems bizarre, especially given the otherwise slavish devotion to the style of Ru's guide. And, whilst I accept that any selective guide cannot by definition include everything, there do seem to be some perverse omissions. For instance, the absence of a proper eliminates diagram for the Calf at Ilkley seems particularly strange given its place in Yorkshire climbing history and its status as pretty much the only weatherproof venue in the county. It just seems such a missed opportunity, I suspect I am not alone in the number of drizzly days spent under those 30 degrees of desperation, with old YGB guide in hand, trying to link numbered holds and muttering "surely that's a misprint?". Similarly, but to a lesser extent, the lack of Crucifix (Almscliff) and Clingen Face (Woodhouse) eliminates is a bit of a surprise.
I admit my opinions on the above, and matters such as the crags included (West Vale rather than Crookrise etc) can be discounted as subjective matters of personal style. However, what is definitely less open to a differing interpretation is the tremendously inept execution. An preliminary scan has revealed several examples of problem descriptions and topo lines being mixed up / missing, e.g. on the Seventh Wave at Widdop, or with Rageh Omar / Under Rumsfeild (sic) at Whitehouses. The lines on the topos are ugly and look like they have been clumsily drawn on with the free drawing package in Word. The number and frequency of spelling mistakes is utterly appalling and frankly insulting to the purchaser. Reading the guide in a bad mood induced a mental sensation akin to reading a beloved novel rendered into teenage "txt spk" whilst listening to someone scratch a nail down a blackboard. For pity's sake how difficult would it have been to get a few friends to proof read the initial drafts? It is not as though most of the mistakes would have required any specialist knowledge to identify, just a remedial ability to read English and perhaps match numbers in the descriptions to those in the diagrams. Perhaps too much time was spent agonising about the grades of barely climbed "test-pieces" and too little spent performing basic duties to the reader. Far more professionalism is on display in the free topos at Lakesbloc, yorkshiregrit, and in some posts to these forums (e.g. the Churnet thread, some Woodhouse Scar stuff I recently received). I feel more sad than angry though, a lot of hard work has obviously gone into it, the are some nice photos and I look forward to using it to plan future days out, but the overall impression has been poisoned by avoidable clumsiness.
Hey ho.. the guide has done something though. Lots of photos of problems, even if the material around them is suspect, has finally got me feeling a post-Christmas inclination to leave my Leeds Wall comfort zone, brave the hideous weather, and do some cranking. Worth it for that I guess, especially if I get a few good days at crags I have not yet visited (Scout Crag, Dove Stones etc). Although when I do venture out, chances are that most often it'll be with my tattered old YGB guide, held together with Duck Tape and covered in annotations from the yorkshiregrit site.
soooooo should I buy it??
:-[
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Well Jackusie, why not peruse it and decide for yourself?
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i'm actually surprised bank's problem start to the left arete at whitehouses was left out, looked pretty good to me.
Hell yeah!
I'll pay you later
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I also note quite a few of the topo numbers are different from the number of the problems described.
Moose- West Vale is good, mainly for the all weather overhanging face. This has loads of eliminates which are very good. These have been omitted in the new guide.
Crookrise will be in the next part.
The cynical part of me thinks it's been released in 2 parts just to milk 40 quid out of us. Although I may not be buying part 2 unless it is very different.
Guide writing ain't easy, so all credit to the boys for the effort. But when you have sites like YG.com, the bar has been raised high and any guide has to be polished. And you can't polish a turd.
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I believe that the eventual plan re the eliminates on the Calf, Eggy face etc is to have them as topos on the Total-Climbing web sites and there are footnotes in the guide to suggest this to be the case.
I think that one of the reasons that the guide is so selective is because Steve was very concious about price point. He wanted to keep it at the £20 mark. Obviously the more that went into it the more the price would escalate, and he will have been restricted to a budget.
Vol 2 should retail at around the £15 mark (may be less may be more). So we're looking at around £35 for both volumes. Given that there are so many venues in Yorkshire (just look at the list on yorkshiregrit) how much would you be prepared to pay for a comprehensive guide? £50!
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Aye, Big F, but it isn't a comprehensive guide. Why not just use YG and donate 30 quid to Jon? You would get up to date info, a consensus on grades with explanatory comments, useful vids/ photos.
We (should that be I?) still have a preference for a book. There's something about having a physical book rather than scraps of paper.
Why does the Lakes Rockfax sell when Greg's guides are better?
Personally I don't think price should override quality/completeness. If you go that route, market it as a selected guide.
These are all early criticisms. When I've tried it at places I don't know I'll have a better idea as to functionality.
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Oh, and I noticed in the intro that Bridestones is being omitted to rest it, but a PDF will be along later? Am I misreading or is this self defeating?
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Oh, and I noticed in the intro that Bridestones is being omitted to rest it, but a PDF will be along later? Am I misreading or is this self defeating?
To be fare it says;
Due to the vast number of bouldering areas it was not practical to include every crag, however total-climbing has many of the omitted crags as free pdf downloads.........We decided it was best to "rest" Bridestones and include some new venues to help take the strain.
I interpret that as saying there won't be a Bridestones pdf?
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Fare?Fair?
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Fair.
Fair enough. I know the place anyway. Let's keep it for future generations. :lol:
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Fair enough. I know the place anyway. Let's keep it for future generations. :lol:
Who will all wonder where that splendid looking arête is on page 15!
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Exactly. Most excellent problemo, which I'd probably hunt out if I saw the photo but didn't know where it was.
But photos and mentions of it being excluded maybe don't help the "keeping it quiet" aspect :lol:
We have concentrated on the bad points of this guide, which is maybe unfair. It has good points to it too.
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We have concentrated on the bad points of this guide, which is maybe unfair. It has good points to it too.
Having not bought it yet, the good points are....
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It looks good.
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sorry i don't know, or care to know, how to group two quotes together. can somebody tell me ;)
when i pointed out that everybody i spoke to said the new guide was shit, i got this reply
Amazing - have you actually managed to see a copy to form your own opinion? I think I already know the answer.....
i hadn't actually seen a copy, which may have gone some way to me saying "everybody i spoke to said the new guide was shit", which strangely enough wasn't my own opinion since i had heard this off others. if it was my own opinion i would have said the new guide is shit, which i didn't. however i read the new guide yesterday. the new guide is shit
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sorry i don't know, or care to know, how to group two quotes together. can somebody tell me ;)
When writing your reply you scroll down, and find the reply you want to quote. Click "Insert Quote". You're father, or mother has a brother called Robert.
i hadn't actually seen a copy, which may have gone some way to me saying "everybody i spoke to said the new guide was shit", which strangely enough wasn't my own opinion since i had heard this off others. if it was my own opinion i would have said the new guide is shit, which i didn't. however i read the new guide yesterday. the new guide is shit
Nicely put. A very delicate response there.
By the way, [pedant] you would
don't... care to know, how to group two quotes together
and yet you ask
can somebody tell me
And I was getting the impression you don't mess your words
[/pedant]
And I'm fully expecting some -ve karma for that one!
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can somebody tell me
it seems however (for whatever reason, maybe to make your point actually make sense?) that you decided NOT to quote the joking/winking smiley from that post!
(our clique is once again almost complete, all we need now is Saltbeef to join in and attack!)
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"The lines on the topos are ugly and look like they have been clumsily drawn on with the free drawing package in Word. The number and frequency of spelling mistakes is utterly appalling and frankly insulting to the purchaser. Reading the guide in a bad mood induced a mental sensation akin to reading a beloved novel rendered into teenage "txt spk" whilst listening to someone scratch a nail down a blackboard.
just a remedial ability to read English and perhaps match numbers in the descriptions
too little spent performing basic duties to the reader
Lots of photos of problems, even if the material around them is suspect
pointless a waste of paper
some perverse omissions"
Those are brave words. Does me Mr Moose climb as boldly as he writes?
Does he have a real name?
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Sorry for the tpyo above, I hope I haven't upset Mr Moss. Moose. Sorry.
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Those are brave words. Does me Mr Moose climb as boldly as he writes?
Does he have a real name?
And this is relevant because....?????...??
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I believe it is relevent because I believe he would not dare to write that review if he actually had to identify himself...!
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"The lines on the topos are ugly and look like they have been clumsily drawn on with the free drawing package in Word. The number and frequency of spelling mistakes is utterly appalling and frankly insulting to the purchaser. Reading the guide in a bad mood induced a mental sensation akin to reading a beloved novel rendered into teenage "txt spk" whilst listening to someone scratch a nail down a blackboard.
just a remedial ability to read English and perhaps match numbers in the descriptions
too little spent performing basic duties to the reader
Lots of photos of problems, even if the material around them is suspect
pointless a waste of paper
some perverse omissions"
Those are brave words. Does me Mr Moose climb as boldly as he writes?
Does he have a real name?
Whether or not you agree with Mr. Moose's general view that the guide isn't great, you can't be questioning the accuracy of the general facts he has stated or the eloquence of his response? Are you saying that there aren't the mistakes and (subjective) omissions he has pointed out?
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I believe it is relevent because I believe he would not dare to write that review if he actually had to identify himself...!
why, are you going to hunt him down slash his tyres then or something?
if he's bought a guide then it strikes me he's entitled to an opinion. i don't think people need to disclose their name, address and NI number to have an opinion. (I assume "1000.dave" is not whats written on your birth certificate).
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Wouldn't the guide be better served by an eloquently put together defence of the book, countering the specific criticisms raised by Moose, rather than questioning the guy's 'bravery' with what sound like thinly veilled threats.
Besides, Moose is a regular user of the forum, has never made a point of hiding his identity and could hardly be classed as anonymous.
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I don't believe its fair or reasonable in anyway. I think the guide is excellent, a huge improvement on any of the old guides by any standards. I also think that if you're going to post such a detailed and considered response you owe it to the authors to present a reasonable balanced opinion. It doesn't come across as a flippant rant or a joke in anyway! And ... it's much easier to do if you're protected by being anonymous. Although Moose could yet put me to shame, prove me wrong entirely and print his name on the forum.
Yours sincerely
Lord Lucan
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Hey, if he feels threatened maybe he has a guilty conscience! It wasn't meant as a threat, but it definately says speaks volume s that that's how it is being interpreted!
Yours
Mr Big
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Okay, If Moose reprints his review with his real name next to it I will admit he is the big man and I will graciously concede defeat :P
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...it definately says speaks volume s that that's how it is being interpreted!
No it speaks volumes that thats how you are interpreting it.
I also think that if you're going to post such a detailed and considered response you owe it to the authors to present a reasonable balanced opinion.
And yours is where?
Fine you like the book, someone else doesn't. Neither of you have revealed your true identity (although I'd imagine there are more users on this forum who know Moose than you).
Why do you have a bee in your bonnet about it? If your that bothered by criticism then why don't you write a repost to Moose's giving the guide the praise you feel it deserves (although I doubt thats going to remove any typos from it, which as was pointed out shouldn't have been allowed past the QC).
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Hey, if he feels threatened maybe he has a guilty conscience!
I've no idea if Moose feels threatened, it was my opinion of how your post could be read. Why would he lack 'bravery' unless there was some implied negative consequence to handing out his id?
It wasn't meant as a threat, but it definately says speaks volume s that that's how it is being interpreted!
I don't understand what you mean by speaks volumes. What do you think it says?
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No, it speaks volumes about how you are interpretting it, times infinity plus one. :kiss2: I think like you're a bit overly sensative. It'll wear off as you get more experienced.
You've read my opinion, its a great guide, I think it needed more gurning though.
C'mon you moose you big chicken! C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon C'mon .
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(http://www.giftedchicken.co.uk/extarordinary_chickens_calendar.jpg)
I hope thats post a picture of a BIG CHICKEN!
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You've read my opinion, its a great guide, I think it needed more gurning though.
Okay, you've said your opinion, but what makes it a great guide for you?
Moose doesn't like it and rather than being flippant (which you've acknowledged he wasn't) he's given his reasons as to why he has formed that opinion. As Greg C has questioned, do you refute the errors that have been noted? If not then I really don't see what your problem is with his review, and I won't until you can provide a more eloquent break down of why you think its great.
Why on earth are you accusing him of being a chicken? He's written his honest opinion of the guide. (Some) People on here know him. Your true identity is? Your homepage is? Your point is?
And ... it's much easier to do if you're protected by being anonymous. Although Moose could yet put me to shame, prove me wrong entirely and print his name on the forum.
Whether his name is printed in the forum or not, what difference does it make? Are you going to go to the electoral register, find his address, stalk him for three months and then kidnap him and hold him in a dark cave until he repents his sins for disliking a guide you like? It won't make one iota of difference whether you know his real name (or other people's yours).
I hope thats post a picture of a BIG CHICKEN!
You could always use the "Preview" button to check.
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Definately overly sensative :bounce:
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Its a bit cutting you saying I've not disclosed my identity - there is an illuatration of me doing rockattrocity on the homepage of this very website! :dance1:
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'drawing' is easier to spell
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Call it over sensitive if you want. I still think you would be doing the guide and it's writers more of a favour by trying to sell it's virtues. I wrote my original comment because like dave I help moderate UKB and people are entitled to register under pretty much any name they want and post up there opinions, so long as they are reasonable, therefore I thought your challenge to Moose was unfair and beside the point (the point being, is this a good book).
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Its a bit cutting you saying I've not disclosed my identity - there is an illuatration of me doing rockattrocity on the homepage of this very website! :dance1:
Sorry theres no picture credits and I didn't recognise you (http://www.ukbouldering.com/).
I look forward your balanced review of the guide.
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Fair? posting that review anonymously?! Seriously? You actually think this is reasonable!? I'm astonished!
The guide is excellent, contains all the best boulder problems in the area, its full of lots of great photo's. Any typing mistakes or omissions are de minimis and can be forgive by the sheer volume of quality hard work that has gone into making both volumes. Its better than any previous Yorkshire bouldering guide ten times over. I can add weight to my opinion because I've climbed lots of those problems and I did quite of few of those as first ascents.
I also have to say that I am totally ashamed that the picture of me on the front of this website represents all these sad fools who could not be any more negative and overly critical if they tried. Perhaps the time has come for the website to change its logo. Please can it be replaced? I am no longer happy for that picture of me to be used and I do not wish to be associated with this website or many of its more pathetic users.
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Its a bit cutting you saying I've not disclosed my identity - there is an illuatration of me doing rockattrocity on the homepage of this very website! :dance1:
oh yeh. http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6512.msg92550.html#msg92550
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David Buchanan
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If anyone wants to take this up with me personally when I'm out bouldering, I'd be happy to.
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Can you tell us why it's a Groove and not a Ramp, then? :lol:
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I believe though that we have not yet seen the bigger picture on the new guide, once we get volume 2 and the web site is up and running the whole thing will be one resource, I think at the moment we have only seen one third of what TC has to offer.
Combine that with Yorkshiregrit and we have some of the best documentation in the world.
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No Greg, but they could print your picture on the homepage instead. :boohoo:
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*Big sigh*
I was liking the guide review bit, not so keen on the dummy spitting. What were you saying about other people being over sensitive?
I'll pass on your request to Bubba re the picture if you really want it changing.
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No, I think its time i spat the dummy. I really don't like a lot of what gets written on here and I would like to draw a line in the sand. I am being a bit overly dramatic but I feel very strongly about this, enough is enough. I've devoted a huge amount of my energy and time to bouldering, climbing and training over the last sixteen years and I don't want to look back and think that I was contributing to something I feel so strongly against. It means more to me personally than a few idle posts on a website.
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That's a yes. Please put one of your more enthusiastic members on your homepage.
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just bought a copy of the new guide book, pictures are good, its simple and easy to understand, its better than the last guide and I would recommend it to anyone. :great:
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Those are brave words. Does me Mr Moose climb as boldly as he writes?
It would appear Mr. Buchanan is attempting to give the impression that he's a big boy now . . . It's a shame that he has failed to accept or even meet 1/2 way any of the valid criticisms levelled at this book.
We write and talk in the English language - please have some respect for it - and appreciate that words in print spelled incorrectly can - for some people - be an affront. The appearance of typo's is unforgivable in any book, nevermind this one. Their appearance or not is a question of time dedicated specifically to eradicating them - clearly - not enough time has been spent on this.
The quote above is deeply regrettable (and one I would be utterly ashamed to make) and has nothing to do with the new guide or any of the criticisms of the book; alas it marks Mr. Buchanan out as a petty and insulting bitch. I'd be more than happy to repeat these words mano-a-mano (please don't make the mistake of wrongfully assuming that this statement contains a subtext offering the threat of violence: that's ludicrous).
Everyone appreciates the work that goes into making any book - alas, some writers or groups dedicate more to this than others.
Personally - I would have been more than happy to proof-read the entire text and correct any general spelling error: I would have done this gratis - as I am not working now (and need not fit it in around my dayjob). Many in Yorkshire would have done this also, of that I am 110% certain.
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No Greg, but they could print your picture on the homepage instead. :boohoo:
If you're referring to me, I post using my real name - thus.
I believe GCW's real name is Giant Crop Wrangler
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Ahem - I beg to differ and must most verily inform Lord Greg of the C that GCW is an acronym of Genital Crevice Wriggler :spank:
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Dave I have no idea why you are so hung up about this whole thing. Well I do, may be good mates with Steve and thus understandably defensive of this guide, but to try to imply some people's feedback is less valid than your own is bizarre (the old lines about not knowing people's names is the same shit Mick Ryan used to pull on UKC when people had a pop at rockfax, and it didn't wash then either). If you think you've got to be climbing 8a+ and doing first ascents to comment on a guide then frankly that's an appalling attitude to have. The way you're carrying on is like saying you've got to be Christophe Lamoune or Olivier Lebreton to review a font guide.
In many ways you're actually one of the least qualified people to comment on the guide. Afterall, you're local, you know here most of the stuff is, you know almost all the problems and you've probably climbed most of em, so you need the guide less than a causal visitor from outside. You can afford to be less critical. If you don't want to hear the forthright type of feedback you will get on here then fair enough, there's millions of other websites you could be reading. I would hope you could read it and see it from other people's perspectives though.
At the end of the day people are paying money for a product and are entitled to an opinion. I'm sure Steve appreciates this which he's not on here whingeing about it, he's just selling guides and letting people vote with their feet and wallets, and it can't be that bad if people are buying it. And if people don't give their opinions then how can things ever improve for future guides, upcoming volumes, websites, guide reprints etc? All this feedback Steve can take onboard and build upon.
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I believe GCW's real name is Giant Crop Wrangler
;) What are you on, Gregory?
GCW is an acronym of Genital Crevice Wriggler
I expect nothing less from you, Hoody. I ain't telling you what it stands for now >:(
Dave B: As a guide I think it's fine for an overview, if it weren't for the errors. Spelling errors, wrong grades, incorrectly numbered topos. Stop me if I'm wrong. Now, one or two can be accepted but the sheer number of errors suggests this hasn't been proof read. If I bought any book and it was filled with spelling errors I'd be pissed. Why is this different? It isn't.
Secondly, it's been touted as the definitive guide. I disagree with that- there's lots of stuff missing. Why should I buy a book, then have to look up the rest of the crags online? A definitive guide should be just that.
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Fine if i'm an appaulling bitch so be it. You won't want my image on your homepage then. Here's a new one which I think is much more appropriate (http://www.giftedchicken.co.uk/extarordinary_chickens_calendar.jpg)
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I feel sorry for Steve - who has all this to look forward to when he returns to Blighty. As it stands, he needs a new scullery maid - as his current bitch can't take the heat of the kitchen.
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Fine if i'm an appaulling bitch so be it.
Appulling bitch...
(http://www.pulldoggies.com/images/gatorpull3.JPG)
:-\
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Sheet! Ah lurve me a lady in gingham . . .
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Sorry Dave, your comments aren't helping your arument. When you are childish, accusatory, confrontational etc it's like the playground. If anything people are more likely to ignore what you have to say. I'm genuinely interested to hear your opinion, but not if it contains loads of "nah nha-na-nah-na" shit.
Love from Greg Chapman's Wench. :-*
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I've lost track here. Who is calling who a chicken? Who is calling who a bitch? Who wants some? Who's who? Who's in charge?
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You won't want my image on your homepage then.
Your image? I didn't realise you'd bought the rights from dobbin. I doubt anyones losing sleep over that loss though. (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=8558.msg) ::)
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Sir!
How dare you! Madam Buchanan is my hero, not only as he is responsible for pushing world bouldering standards to new and lofty heights but his behaviour under duress is a credit to Britain and a worthy lesson to us all!
I demand a duel to the death! Let no-one critisize her awesomeness in all things! You unwholesome swine!
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You won't want my image on your homepage then.
[pedant]
If its you in the picture then someone else took the picture and the copyright lies with them no?
[/pedant]
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Unless you have taken out a copyright on your own image? Many divas do this.
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Blimey. The only logical explanation I can see here for why Mr B has chucked his toys out of the pram in such a dramatic and undignified manner is that it was him who proof read the guide and that Moose was therefore directly insulting him by pointing out the number of errors it contains. I say this is logical based on A: His reaction and B: The number of spelling mistakes in his posts. :-\
If in doubt, post a picture of a chicken. Twice.
Jesus. ::)
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I hope that photo gets taken down a.s.a.p
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6512.0.html (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6512.0.html)
:whistle:
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Christ almighty... I have a job interview... log back on...and ooh what a palaver.....
For those who are interested (seemingly a congregation of one), my name is Luke, I live in Selby, and am frequently to be found performing an approximation to bouldering at the Leeds Wall. If you see me, say hello, my avatar is a distressingly accurate likeness (although I am more placid than Mr Keown - don't bother bringing the heavy mob).
I appreciate that the new guide represents a lot of hard work and self-sacrifice. However, I do stand by most of my critisisms, although I admit that the phrasing was perhaps a little harsh. Sorry, but I was in a bad mood - a previous job interview - travelling the length of the country to have a bunch of very clever people criticise you for several hours does that ("man hands on misery to man, it deepens like a coastal shelf...").
So, I still stand by my opinion that the new guide is disappointing, perhaps especially given the amount of time and work that has done into it. I do like the photos, and the crag / problem coverage seems fine (the decision to leave out the Bridies is brave and responsible), but the execution has left a sour aftertaste. I find it hard to reconcile this seeming lack of care / courtesy to the reader with my favourable impression of Steve Dunning's decency and dedication to the project. Especially as many of the faults should have been readily identified and remedied; presumably the writers had any number of friends willing to check the proofs (or were they all too busy arguing over the grade of Hot Dog Fromage)?
Perhaps I just expected too much: the old YGB guide was a favourite (I still feel the clarity of its maps and the detail of its topos make it superior to the new Peak guide in certain respects) and in these days of digital photography, and with access to the peerless resource of the yorkshiregrit database, my hopes for the new one were perhaps ludicrous. Possibly nothing short of a guide that shouted useful beta and moved your mat underneath you would have truly satisfied... although a problem index and less missing lines and glaring typos would have been a nice start.
But, all things considered, the new guide is still the best available for the area: the faults are generally trivial and although annoying are no barrier to a good day out (I just get very irked by sloppiness). In fact I recently baptised my copy with a trip to Brimham where I climbed on several butresses I had never attempted to find before. The new guide's use of photographs meant that I could yomp over the moors secure in the knowledge that I would recognise the problems when I saw them (always a concern with Brimham). That I guess is the most important test of a guide. Although it could be argued that it is a just a base-line advantage of the photographic format (like arguing that Titanic is a great film because the ship sinks in a more impressive fashion than the radio version).
Sorry to take up so much room again with what is just one person's subjective opinion. Next time I have an opinion on anything I feel to be of interest to the bouldering community I shall keep it to myself. Or perhaps just post something along the lines of "I h8 gyde, the wordz and nmbers are gash" rather than bothering to clearly explain and elucidate my misgivings. Incidentally, practically everyone I met at Brimham had a copy.......
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Jesus. ::)
Yes? - my child.
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Blimey. The only logical explanation I can see here for why Mr B has chucked his toys out of the pram in such a dramatic and undignified manner is that it was him who proof read the guide and that Moose was therefore directly insulting him by pointing out the number of errors it contains. I say this is logical based on A: His reaction and B: The number of spelling mistakes in his posts. :-\
That may be one mighty big nail you are hitting the head of there.
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And if I may paraphrase Herr Popp: What an edifying spectacle this has been . . .
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One of the most realistic and constructive review threads has now been totally brutalised. Anally. Thanks for that. >:(
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I counted 12 typos on page 245, and two missing problems. Fat punters roof is most certainly not a problem of outstanding quality and I'd like to have seen an action photo of Whitehouses too - I've got some good ones in my collection as has YG. On the previous page the typos continue, the grid reference is wrong and the road marked on the map as The Raikes is actually for local access only - Let's not annoy the locals.
Having said all this, Yorkshire grit did need a new bouldering book - I'm just not sure that this photo-topo format reveals its true quality.
I make no excuses for my opinion Mr B - I have met Steve, respect and like Steve, and take my white hat off to him for tackling the hardest of jobs for guidebook writers. I do however hope that he spells my name correctly for the second guide. I reckon that Dvae Sutcliffe (page 169), Andy Swan (page 13), John Syret (page 9) and Jerry Moffat (page 12/13) [sic,sic,sic,sic] would also be pleading for a more thorough proofread. I have offered this service previously on this forum and repeat that offer again so that future guides can have the quality feedback you seem to demand.
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Fair? posting that review anonymously?! Seriously? You actually think this is reasonable!? I'm astonished!
His/her username was no more anonymous than yours. If you don't like a bad review of something you like then really it's just tough - welcome to the internet where people tend to disagree with each other.
I also have to say that I am totally ashamed that the picture of me on the front of this website represents all these sad fools who could not be any more negative and overly critical if they tried.
Awww. Poor you. That photo doesn't represent anything of the sort. I just grabbed one of Dobbin's pics and did 20 seconds photoshop on it - i had no idea that it was you, whoever you are. Of course you say that you're Dave Buchanan but really there's no way of you proving it.
Perhaps the time has come for the website to change its logo. Please can it be replaced? I am no longer happy for that picture of me to be used and I do not wish to be associated with this website or many of its more pathetic users.
Errrm ok, whatever. I'm not sure you actually have any rights in that area but since you've acted like such a fool on this topic I'll get rid of it anyway so we're not associated with you :)
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can I just say..
went to widdop today..
directions, in 'the new guide' were shite..
did FOB in a session,
and.
thanks Moose for the beta..
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Surely you mean Fight On The Black?
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ha ha! yes, how stupid of me...
is ten thousand dave gonna be on my case?
hmmm..
ironically I climbed with Jerry yesterday.. @ woodhouse no less..
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Would that be Jerry Moffat or Jerry Peal?
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Ironically, I had this argument with someone earlier today..
metaphorically, it was which is better... sash windows or upvc? ie wood ones...
a life statement?????
jerry p or jerry m?
Im a little bit pissed
always jp.
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oh shit..
it was one thousand dave..
i live in fear
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No, that's just a typo. It's supposed to be Ten thousand Dave.
But we all live in fear nonetheless. :o
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Check out Jan 28th
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/ (http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/)
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Would that be Jerry Moffat or Jerry Peal?
mac said no whilst trying to answer
clearly..
jp
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I think my main complaint with it is, that for something of its size, it should contain at least double the information. I don't want a part 2. I don't want a fucking downloadable pdf to have to print out with my printer that I don't own. I want to buy a yorkshire bouldering gritstone guidebook, with all the good gritstone bouldering in yorkshire, in one volume, with accurate grades and that's been proof read by someone without cataracts. Is it really that much to ask?
The reality is I'm going to pay £35 for a 2 part, incomplete, inaccurate, guide
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(http://www.ukbouldering.com/media/images/logo01.jpg)
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I think my main complaint with it is, that for something of its size, it should contain at least double the information. I don't want a part 2. I don't want a fucking downloadable pdf to have to print out with my printer that I don't own. I want to buy a yorkshire bouldering gritstone guidebook, with all the good gritstone bouldering in yorkshire, in one volume, with accurate grades and that's been proof read by someone without cataracts. Is it really that much to ask?
The reality is I'm going to pay £35 for a 2 part, incomplete, inaccurate, guide
word.
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Check out Jan 28th
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/ (http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/)
same old mick eh. just goes to show a leper can't change its spots.
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(http://www.ukbouldering.com/media/images/logo01.jpg)
my my, is this a photo of dave 'internet tough guy' buchannn
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Opinions about Steve Dunning's new guidebook to Yorkshire Gritstone Bouldering that we previewed at UKClimbing.com (link) are creating a lot of noise at the bouldering forum, UKBouldering.com.
So far the guide has generally been well received and has sold over 800 copies since publication.
The controversy starts at page 8 of a thread entitled "Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guide" when someone going under the name Moose writes a critical review. Some agree and some disagree, one poster going under the name of 1000.dave says that the guide is "better than any previous Yorkshire bouldering guide ten times over," but then says that he is leaving the forum for good.
You can take a look at the argument yourself, (link), but as usual always take what is written with a pinch of salt. Better to judge Yorkshire Gritstone Bouldering yourself by nipping down to your local climbing shop and having a look at a copy.
Nice one Mick. If it's all to be taken with a pinch of salt, "as usual", is it really "news"? Or is UKC desperate for more shit to stir stories?
Pick up a p-p-p-p-p-punter point.
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But of course everything on UKB has to be taken with a "pinch of salt". Unlike the insightful, informative discussions over on UKC.............
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=282853
:wank:
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My £2.00
1. Reviews in this thread have been very useful. Although sometimes harsh I don't think any of them have been trending into flaming territory - the criticisms have been about aspects of the guidebook. And I think they should be answered as such.
2. 1000000.dave - I went to Ceuse with him a couple of years back, and I found him to be a cool guy, good to climb with, fun, excitable and good banter. Had a good laugh with him, Cookie and Ted. It's a pity he's reacted like this and turned this thread into such a battle, but I guess some people don't do the internet very well.
3. mick ryan is still a cunt. Mick when you read this to gloatingly check how much you've interfered: Stop fucking around sticking your spanner in the works and trying to inflame the situation even more with these bullshit non-news items, and instead how about posting the Scottish new routing article I sent to you fucking months ago.
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mick ryan is still a cunt
Is this the new UKB T-shirt slogan?
Somehow I don't think your article will make it past the shredder now Fiend :lol:
I would agree though- Offhand, I can't recall anything unfair (until page 8 ) being stated here. There hasn't been any slagging, it's been a case of being disappointed the guide isn't all it could be. All criticism has been constructive.
Also, I'm sure we all appreciate the effort that has gone into this guide.
We seem to be going in circles now.
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i glanced at the guide last week.i was disapointed in that there was a lot of mistakes.things like traverses being described the wrong way round plus some places seem to have been graded either from memory or just looking at the topo.
if you have the old guide and look at johns site,you won't get much out of the new guide.however a big plus is that this guide makes me a better climber than i thought i was.
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mick ryan is still a cunt
Is this the new UKB T-shirt slogan?
I'd wear it. it would go nicely with my "the pope is catholic" shirt.
I was in tesco the other day and i thought i saw mick's name written on a loaf of bread - but when i had a closer look i discovered it actually just said "thick cut".
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3. mick ryan is still a cunt.
becomes, "is mick ryan a cunt?"
and the reverse of the t-shirt follows with nibile's exclamation.
job done...
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Simple and brilliant.
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You don't want to soil "Yes yes fucking yes" really....it is a phrase - nay, a lifestyle - that transcends all this nonsense.
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Nice one Big Frank, adding to the UKC shit pot. Reply for our favourite cunt:
People will make their own mind up about the guide. Collectively, here and on UKB, is a review of the guide. Far better than getting someone with a vested interest or an axe to grind to write a review.
"I think to form an opinion it's better to buy it and read it in detail"
I agree Francis. I would add that it would be also better to use it in the field by someone who is not familiar with the areas.
Yes, Moose is an excellent writer.
"Better to judge Yorkshire Gritstone Bouldering yourself by nipping down to your local climbing shop and having a look at a copy."
Maybe it will be your shop. I hope so.
Also, whose idea was this?
PREVIEW: The New Yorkshire Grit Bouldering Guidebook
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=763
It would be mine.
That article has been viewed 1,690 times. Steve got a lot of sales from that article and link. He told me so when I spoke to him last week.
I think I will review the guide myself for UKC.
My qualifications. I started Rockfax. I have published seven USA guides. I'm the co-author of Bishop Bouldering (author of the Bishop Bouldering Survival Kit that sold 8,000 copies) and co-author of Islands In The Sky, the guidebook to Las Vegas and Nevada limestone.
I'm in Yorkshire now.
By the way I'm smiling.
Must crack on lots of work to do. Have fun.
All the best,
Mick
Smug git. Another p-p-p-p-p-puntering, Mick?
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god I wrote some toss last night.. I really should apologise and would like to take the opportunity to do so, here and now..
in my defence I should add I was intoxicated by a mixture of cheap ale and the buzz of sending such a cool problem..
when I set off for widdop yesterday (never climbed there, but visited once) I thought I'd take the new guide.. give it a go, try and believe in it etc etc..
got to hebden checked the map only to find minimal directions and no road numbers.. I swear I nearly threw the fucking thing out of the window..
I feel for Steve as the guide is getting a slating and its clear a lot of work has gone into it.. but for reasons that have been outlined plenty of times before, I dont rate it
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did you find widdop then?
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eventually... more by luck than anything else.. turned right at heptonstall and kept going! amazing crag though and a top day for me!
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and...what did you get done???
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oh yeah, ive not had a look at this guide, but i hear that the guy on the advert inside the cover is a sexy mo fo...
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and...what did you get done???
red edge right and left
four square
splashdown
fight on black
:)
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Pool traverse and direct are very worthwhile, as is the wall left of Splashdown. I need to go back for FO(t)B. Always got the break easily but was too stretched to sort my feet.
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and...what did you get done???
red edge right and left
four square
splashdown
fight on black
:)
nice one. good day out! ditto, short crimpy wall round the corner from splash down is good stuff.
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Pool traverse and direct are very worthwhile, as is the wall left of Splashdown. I need to go back for FO(t)B. Always got the break easily but was too stretched to sort my feet.
I cannot for one moment believe that you were stretched when you got the break! That is just too unfeasible to put into words - it's pretty much job done by then. Go back immediately and get it done, I assure you the top is fine.
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I plan to go when I recover from my battering. I meant I was stretched when I got the break with my feet still on the ground :lol:
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Kinda half tempted to do a little charity work for Mr. Buchanan, buy the guide, read every syllable, post every last spelling typo (not grade errors, as we could argue about that all day) here in this thread. Could come in useful for the next printing, and save him working his fingers to the bone - again.
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It'd take you a looong time to document all the errors Hoodini.
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But I'm selfless that way :ang:
I'd also enjoy proving a point, really - how hard can it be to spot a typo?
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Having had 15 mins to read through this lot, bloody hell there's a few angry peeps out there, you can tell we're not getting enough coz of the weather cannt you?? ;)
after flicking through the guide in question (for 30 mins) I'm basically in the Jim camp. it's a fine effort, but even I (sheff based) can see some omissions.(I found the caley bit very hard to read, much harder to find the blocks than the last guide - and i do know the area well).
It's the omissions that are the worst bit really, the documentation of the sport should be a comprehensive as possible IMO. if directions are indeed not accurate then that's just a travisty - it's fundemental reason for the existance of the guide.
I'm also keen for there to be an index.
If a font guide can get all the major areas in 1 volume then surely so can yorkshire grit :shrug:
I can see it's a bit like Ru's guide, which although no essay did have some delightful little bits of prose and superb little amusing scripts. I cant find such in this guide.
I am in favour of the font grades, I'll never get to wayco and grit being a fine grained rock with usually short problems lends itself to the grade system we are most used to abroad (taking it read that most of us when abroad will have spent more time at font than anywhere else)
Seems too many pics, not enough block drawings and no real feel for the history by way of prose.
There again, it a photo guide! perhaps just not my cup of tea then. I'll carry on with the old one.
I usually climb at the bridestones anyways if i'm in yorkshire, so I doubt I'll see anyone there for years. Hmmm.... now there's a bonus!!!
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Oh yeah, sorry for not mentioning this before
Mick Ryan is a right fucking twat
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My god, what a storm in a tea cup.
My 2p worth, I've only had a flick through the guide but feel many of the substantive criticisms re typo's etc are well founded and the guide is 95+% of the way tow being excellent, it's a shame that the errors undermine the sterling effort that got it so close to being 'a winner'. Perhaps the errors can be corrected for part 2 and the second edition?
As for the comments by 1110.dave on here, boy, if you ever need a flaming just let me know and I'll give you some private tutition.
As for the comments on Cockfax, I think a strongly worded 'cease and desist letter' would be well in order, either that or we (i.e. anyone who's able to make it) ask Mick to justify his comments face to face down at the Works tomorrow.
It's a shame I'm banned from Cocktalk as otherwise I'd tell MR what a cvnt he's being and get banned!
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Sloper: I sent a message to the "Report Abuse" address:
Posting guidelines:
"Please don't use rude, abusive or politically offensive language - Messages which contain excessive and pointless swearing, or insults aimed at other people, or politically offensive language will be removed."
Mick Ryan has gone a bit far here. Making sweeping generalisations about UKBouldering users as well as spreading unfair comments (eg about Bubba) is unreasonable. I would not expect this kind of childish behaviour from somebody who is supposedly an adult.
I would hope the offending comments are removed, or a retraction made publically.
Mick's reply:
Funny Gareth. You be down the Works tomorrow. Mick
I did reply:
No, I never go to the Works.
Do you not think this is getting a bit silly though?
Your site, your call.
Regards.
GCW
I'm awaiting a reply.
This guy Ryan is a bully, and he doesn't listen to sense.
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Hmmm . . . I've not long finished reading the UKC thread too. The Stig impressed me most.
I didn't think it so bad, certainly nowhere as bad as what's been seen on this thread. 1000.dave couldn't have let his team down more if he tried; many-a-time I thought of offering him a new Spear & Jackson, as his own was worn down to the handle.
The real winner is Moose - who took it all in his stride and even went as far as to offer a 2nd articulate and unbiased review. What a star! You can tell he cares for Yorks.
I wouldn't punter Mick any more - pointless - he really doesn't care. I recommend ignoring him; everyone hates being ignored especially those that fish for attention. They leave of their own accord, they always do.
*reads GCWs post* On second thoughts - lets blind him in both eyes and hack his legs off, daft twit. ;D
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I can see why a lot of forums have some members only sections, it stops a load of people (who don't really care enough to register) from diving in, it would probably stop that type of "News" item as well.
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i hear that the guy on the advert inside the cover is a sexy mo fo...
Nah, he's wearing a studded belt, what a fashion faux-pas ;)
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*reads GCWs post* On second thoughts - lets blind him in both eyes and hack his legs off, daft twit. ;D
I'm sure that could be cited a prime example of why UKB is such a bitter and spiteful site. Apparantly... ;)
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Yes - there's no accounting for humour. :lol:
And there are a world of halfwits out there ready to deliberately skew every syllable spoken to suit their own ends. Mick is many things - I'm sure; stupid isn't one of them.
Do people really view UKB as bitter? I couldn't care less, people believe what they want to believe and that won't be changed - regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Bonjoy was right: it was going so well untill Mr. Buchanan spat his dummy, but hey, it's not my business interests and reputation he's damaging . . .
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I don't view UKB as bitter, although i imagine some of the more banterous comments could be perceived that way (maybe). I've tended not to post much here, but read a fair bit and reckon its far more interesting/useful than Cocktalk.
Look out for UKC's next news article; "UKClimbing's Mick Ryan receives death threats from irate boulderers" :yawn:
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I was thinking of going for his family, too :devangel:
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Nothing wrong with a bit of bitterness in it's place. ;) On this site it is generally restricted to this thread..........
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,8473.0.html
.............in you go Mr Ryan. I'm sure Houdini has a warm welcome waiting for you.
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Mick Ryan is a right fucking twat
Word.
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oh yeah, ive not had a look at this guide, but i hear that the guy on the advert inside the cover is a sexy mo fo...
I saw some ladies at the wall looking at that picture, they laughed, waving their little fingers in the air saying "chipolata chappers tee tee" don't know what that was about...
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It's interesting that the mildly crititical comment posted by Chris F(ryer?) seems to have been deleted.
It seems Mick can't take any criticism.
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They also appear to have deleted a post from Paul B which politely questioned the possibility of Mick writing an impartial and unbiased review of the guide after the comments he had made.
Must be nice to not have to bother thinking of replies to difficult questions. Just make them disappear.
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It's interesting that the mildly crititical comment posted by Chris F seems to have been deleted.
It seems Mick can't take any criticism.
Yes, my posting has definitely been deleted. I don't think it's the criticism he was concerned with, more likely the fact that I pointed out that he used to post on here until he got banned. Seems like NEWS is more important than the TRUTH.
Paul B's comment has been deleted too.
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Mick is very good at what he does. (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=300760)
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I noticed the missing posts too..
Though if I was going to delete anything I'd have probably chosen to remove such well thought out and balanced comments as these..
"Bubba (owner of the site) is all bunged up. Try an enema Bubba"
"I'll be in the Works tomorrow night. Feel free to to punch me if you are there."
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Got a reply at last:
No, I never go to the Works.
Do you not think this is getting a bit silly though?
Your site, your call.
Regards GCW
Hi Gareth, My work is done on this subject and with much success- please feel free to post this down UKB. We deal with all climbers, all of them, and I've a lotof editing to do and advertising to sell. Thanks to all for playing. It played out as I planned.It was so easy. Best regards, Mick
And some of my posts have magically disappeared too.
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At least all the people he has "sent here" know the truth about his shenanigans now.
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all the traffic on UKC lines their pockets via advertising money - so do as I do and don't even visit the site. cunts.
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yep
:agree:
christ, this is the most united the regulars on here have been for ages
:kiss1:
thanks Mick, only useful thing you've ever contributed to the biggest non profit bouldering forum in the UK
ta ;)
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They also appear to have deleted a post from Paul B which politely questioned the possibility of Mick writing an impartial and unbiased review of the guide after the comments he had made.
Must be nice to not have to bother thinking of replies to difficult questions. Just make them disappear.
seriously has that gone? I made that as POLITE as possible. I'm fuming.
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Don't be angry Paul_ - remember whom you're dealing w/ here.
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Don't be angry Paul_ - remember whom you're dealing w/ here.
well i've asked them to justify their choice in an email, I did this on a quick thread which is now no more, so hopefully (fingers crossed) i'll get an email soon, although all that i've got so far is somebody trying to sell me viagra :shrug:
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Viagra will make you climb harder, and that's a promise...
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Viagra will make you climb harder, and that's a promise...
That joke straddles the wad / punter line.
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It's interesting that the mildly crititical comment posted by Chris F seems to have been deleted.
It seems Mick can't take any criticism.
Yes, my posting has definitely been deleted. I don't think it's the criticism he was concerned with, more likely the fact that I pointed out that he used to post on here until he got banned. Seems like NEWS is more important than the TRUTH.
Paul B's comment has been deleted too.
There was that old russian joke (apologies for the spelling and lack of cyrillic characters) na pravda da ivestia na ivestia da pravda.
I'm going down to the works tonight, I'll try and ask MR what he's playing at face to face. If you see anyone in the sheaf later with a fat lip you'll know it got tasty.
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you'd think that if a comment was worth deleting you would get an email telling you what you've done wrong and maybe highlighting any terms and conditions you've broken.
Sloper: I'm not climbing at the moment as i'm riddled with injury but I might accompany my good lady down...
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I'm not really climbing at the moment, but I ight see how the hand is tonight. Look for an Irish rugby shirt and specs (if anyone mentions a portly gentleman I'll drown them in fine wine)
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looks like UKC have deleted the whole thread now. Pity, as I was enjoying reading it. UKC, Presumably at the behest of mich 'Goebbels' Ryan even purged another thread asking why the original thread had been deleted.
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As I said, Mick Ryan suffers from extreme bouts of cowardice. Too many UKC users were critical of him. He's got the balls of a ladyboy.
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mich 'Goebbels' Ryan
An appropriate typo: mich = I / me in German. Sums the dude up really.
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Just asked where the threads gone - i've no idea why it was deleted - I've not even seen the book yet!
...I'll not hold mi breath ...
Si
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Thought I might put my two cents in on Mick Ryan seeing as everyone's having a pop at the cock.
I seem to remember once that Mick accused me, publicly on the UKC forum, of being a homophobe. I wish I had saved the thread in some way so I could report it more accurately. The gist of it is is that I in particular have a hatred for homophobia and politely explained this to Mick also on the forum. Well surprise surprise those posts were done away with speedily. Posted it several times after but it was deleted every time. He claimed that it wasnt him who deleted them (which I dont believe). I have no problems with the rest of the UKC mods. I know that if I was head honcho there I would have done away with Mick a long time ago. This isnt the first time hes used his position as mod and "news" editor to get things his own way.
Maybe we should reccomend Vixen Tor to him as an excellent crag with friendly locals.
>:( :furious: :spank: :thumbsdown: :wank: :wank: :wank: :wank: :wank:
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You never know, with any luck Sloper might have twatted him down at the Works this evening. :great:
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Stoppit with the photos of Peak stuff! Jeez, :off: or what?
we did veer somewhat. here's a pic of yorks to help realign the thread:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/beardownproductions/John/climbing/BarryKingsize_JC.jpg?t=1201211090)
nice job cofe ;-)
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You never know, with any luck Sloper might have twatted him down at the Works this evening. :great:
That was your job rocky!
:thumbsdown:
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Hi Gareth, My work is done on this subject and with much success- please feel free to post this down UKB. We deal with all climbers, all of them, and I've a lotof editing to do and advertising to sell. Thanks to all for playing. It played out as I planned.It was so easy. Best
Do you think he sees himself as some sort of media mogul, manipulating and twisting events according to his plans, like Eliot Carver (the least scary and crappest Bond villan ever).
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funny that, several of my UKC posts have also been deleted - in particular one asking why so many posts had gone missing. it seems you can only be on the forums if you toe the party line - say anything they happen to disagree with and it disappears
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1 9 8 4
*shivver*
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say anything they happen to disagree with and it disappears you disappear
(http://i26.tinypic.com/suttgy.jpg)
Don't fuck with the cocktalk wiseguy. :wank:
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funny that, several of my UKC posts have also been deleted - in particular one asking why so many posts had gone missing. it seems you can only be on the forums if you toe the party line - say anything they happen to disagree with and it disappears
good job there isnt even a party line on here then..
or it would be tumbleweed central on near every thread ;D
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The Party Line over there would appear to be National Socialism. Sieg Heil!
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funny that, several of my UKC posts have also been deleted - in particular one asking why so many posts had gone missing. it seems you can only be on the forums if you toe the party line - say anything they happen to disagree with and it disappears
he apologized in an email for removing my posts.
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Sloper, did Mick have anything to say for himself at The Works last night?
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He didn't turn up when I was there.
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on a plus side about the guide, I like the use of colours to represent grade groups (eg red for 7's, yellow for 6's...) and also the conditions/weather beta page. I am also psyched by some of the photo's to go and try problems that I haven't looked at before although there needs to be a balance as there are far too many photo's taking up room where all of yorkshire grit bouldering could be in one guide.
The picture of 1000.Dave's massive chin on larger larger brings a smile to my face especially after his ranting on these forums. I just hope thats not your sex-face as well as your crux-face Dave.
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Surely you mean "Lager Lager Lager".
Or should that be 1000.dave's Passage?
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Surely you mean "Lager Lager Lager".
Or should that be 1000.dave's Passage?
Surely you mean the Ramp ;D
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funny that, several of my UKC posts have also been deleted - in particular one asking why so many posts had gone missing. it seems you can only be on the forums if you toe the party line - say anything they happen to disagree with and it disappears
he apologized in an email for removing my posts.
Well that's ok then.........
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Surely you mean "Lager Lager Lager".
Or should that be 1000.dave's Passage?
Surely you mean the Ramp ;D
oh god no, not again... :wall:
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I do not wish to be associated with this website or many of its more pathetic users.
So why do you still come on here then?
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/2234954352_071471186b_o.jpg)
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Oi, no need for witch-hunts...
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Sorry.
Just when someone slags so much, initiates a Ryan AND says they never want to be associated with a bunch of pathetic people I would hoe they had the decency to stick to their word.
Evidently I'm being unfair. :shrug:
End of.
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Its alright, made me laugh.
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Evidently Fiend is a click happy dude with no sense of humour :lol:And +40/-10 is such a round pair of numbers :-*
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there's always a need for witch hunts. if they weigh more than a duck burn them
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there's always a need for witch hunts. if they weigh more than a duck burn them
There's a man that speaks sense.
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(http://www.dvdbeaver.com/FILM/DVDReviews25/a%20witchfinder%20general/wfg1.jpg)
Too right!
I love the logic of the Witchhunter
Sink? Burn her!!
Float? Burn her!!
Personally, I think 1000.dave should be forced to repeat my shittiest Pass problems for an eternity or admit to witchcraft.
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Evidently Fiend is a click happy dude with no sense of humour :lol: And +40/-10 is such a round pair of numbers :-*
Sorry meant Greg.
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Evidently Fiend is a click happy dude with no sense of humour
That's a ridiculous accusation!
Fiend's only dished-out 27 -ve points!
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I love the logic of the Witchhunter
Sink? Burn her!!
Float? Burn her!!
I thought it was:
Sink and drown - innocent
Float - burn her
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Evidently Fiend is a click happy dude with no sense of humour :lol: And +40/-10 is such a round pair of numbers :-*
Sorry meant Greg.
AHEM!!!
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I did apologise Fiend. Trying to do 2 things at once (read, type) and got confused. :-[
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on a plus side about the guide,
...aye back to topic - it looks good and diagrams are pretty well handled as well as the maps. A lot of work has gone into the book & it shows. I don't want to be too negative about the photo's - but some of them are not worthy of the guide IMHO - only if for the fact that the light is poor in a few of them and its a shame that some of the topo's are so dark as well...
sunn dun't cum owt much in yarkshire ...
Si
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(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/dpearse/fail.jpg)
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I love the logic of the Witchhunter
Sink? Burn her!!
Float? Burn her!!
I thought it was:
Sink and drown - innocent
Float - burn her
Yep .... Quite agree .... You can't burn her when she's wet .....
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what? are you saying you can't put petrol on a piece of string then feed it to her, then light it? :shrug: