UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => equipment => Topic started by: MischaHY on August 01, 2023, 12:38:15 pm
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I'm still battling away on my quest for a shoe which stays comfy enough for big day (15-30 pitches) with harder climbing at onsight limit or second go (for me this is 7b/c ish). For granite/sandstone I've vaguely settled on Instinct Lace as being a good balance of sensitivity/edging capability and reasonable crack performance but for vert/slabby lime it is too soft.
I really don't get on well with shoes like TC Pro because of the lack of sensitivity. I've got a wide forefoot and narrow heel.
Shoes I've tried so far:
TC Pro: Amazing comfort but too clunky and insensitive to work well. (for me!)
Scarpa Generator: Comfy but stretched like mad and then fell apart. Also fairly clunky.
Instinct Lace: Comfy enough and good on high friction rock types but lacking on lime, especially vert and low friction.
Instinct VS: Similar to the lace but bag out really quickly and lose the performance.
Miura VS: Amazing performance but unbearable after 10 pitches or so. Also somewhat narrow.
I'm considering trying the following:
Vapour Lace: Seems to be similar fit to the Instinct Lace but stiffer. Could be a winner although it's apparently not great in thin cracks due to the size of the toebox. Maybe not such a big issue on lime.
Katana Lace: Apparently an absolute weapon but potentially less comfy and narrower.
Happy to take suggestions on what people find works for them! Cheers.
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Scarpa VSR or an older pair of Whites (of the original vintage). Usually these wouldn't be new, perhaps even resoled once.
I think you've got to accept that beyond a certain number of pitches (and depending on rock type) your feet aren't going to be entirely happy.
I also avoid Anasazi VCS on anything with crack pitches as the buckles always seemed to get mashed into the top of my foot. In the USA I opted for Moccs a lot of the time but the grades were a lot steadier (apparently).
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I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges! Modern shoes seem to be mostly quite soft (at least for anyone >70kg) so I'm still working through my stock of the old red Instinct Lace on these kind of routes (the newer black instinct laces don't fit my toes quite as well unfortunately; and I hate anasazis)
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TC Pro: Amazing comfort but too clunky and insensitive to work well. (for me!)
V1 or V2?
I'm just back from the dolomites, onsights up to 7b+ / 650m and I didn't resort to my Instinct VSRs, TC Pros all the way. I did fail to onsight one 7b technical thin bit, but that's more a lack of my footwork skills than the shoes fault!
In the past, I found the V1 TC Pros to be very insensitive and it took a good week or two of big granite routes to start to get any level of control or feeling, but with the V2s I found them much better out the box and really been pretty happy with the amount of feeling, they also get quite good at smearing once bedded in.
I don't fit any other La Sportiva shoes, firmly an instinct vs shaped foot...
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Brand new Miura lace-ups, half a size bigger than normal.
I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!
Miura lace-ups, half a size smaller than normal.
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Katana velcro, half a size bigger than normal.
I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!
Brand new Katana velcro, half a size smaller than normal.
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Katana velcro, half a size bigger than normal.
I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!
Brand new Katana velcro, half a size smaller than normal.
Previous iteration (blue/yellow 2nd gen) of Magos.
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To OP, I really struggle to find trad shoes because I need a broad asymmetric fit. Instinct VS would be ideal but it’s not asymmetric enough so I’ve gone with Evolv Shaman lace. They’ve got a rubber midsole that the velcros don’t have and though they’re not exactly stiff, they’re pretty supportive.
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I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges! Modern shoes seem to be mostly quite soft (at least for anyone >70kg) so I'm still working through my stock of the old red Instinct Lace on these kind of routes (the newer black instinct laces don't fit my toes quite as well unfortunately; and I hate anasazis)
You must be running out of routes to do if you're resorting to vert surely!
I think you've got to accept that beyond a certain number of pitches (and depending on rock type) your feet aren't going to be entirely happy.
This is surely the bottom line. I don't think it would matter what I wore for 30 pitches, my feet would still be hurting.
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This is probably not going to be any help, and is in fact more of a brag (but I'm older and weaker than I was, new kids are all so much better so cut me some slack).
In the late '90s I got a pair of 5.10 newtons. They felt shit. Really insensitive. I had some bigger trips coming up so I tried to wear them in before, soloing around on grit. They gradually felt better so wore them on harder stuff - Exorcist at Almscliff, Raindogs, Tonight at Noon, 3 Blind Mice... they were pretty good. I freed El Cap in a day in them (and as we were both free climbing with no haul bag we didn't carry trainers so also walked down off El Cap in them), bunch of other big US routes. Then went to Patagonia and wore them on multiple 24hr long climbs there (on the way up and down as again we didn't take trainers/mountain boots on many of the climbs) so they were being worn non stop for 24 hrs. A few years later and they were still going good. Eventually I changed sponsor before they had worn out.
The closest I have felt boot wise since is the Maestro, unfortunately I've not yet worn them in to the same degree. In general I don't like stiffer boots and these are the stiffest things I've ever got on with and only after months of use to get to a point I like them. I find stiff boots uncomfy. I also find if I size up too much they also are less comfy, maybe partly through loosing support.
I've been wearing rock shoes since I was 10 years old and now have fairly strong feet so don't really feel any benefit in super stiff boots and the lack of sensitivity is shit.
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Following this discussion closely as my stock of Blancos is slowly going towards zero.
For single-pitch stuff, I was quite happy with the 2nd version of the Magos. Could never really bear to wear them for multipitches though, and the new iteration is too soft anyway.
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I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges! Modern shoes seem to be mostly quite soft (at least for anyone >70kg) so I'm still working through my stock of the old red Instinct Lace on these kind of routes (the newer black instinct laces don't fit my toes quite as well unfortunately; and I hate anasazis)
For single pitch Miura VS all the way in terms of performance (81kg). Not the comfiest but incredible edging whilst staying sensitive enough. My issue with them is that even if sized up they are still too downturned to work well in cracks. Can anyone compare how the fit is with Katana lace?
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TC Pro: Amazing comfort but too clunky and insensitive to work well. (for me!)
V1 or V2?
I'm just back from the dolomites, onsights up to 7b+ / 650m and I didn't resort to my Instinct VSRs, TC Pros all the way. I did fail to onsight one 7b technical thin bit, but that's more a lack of my footwork skills than the shoes fault!
In the past, I found the V1 TC Pros to be very insensitive and it took a good week or two of big granite routes to start to get any level of control or feeling, but with the V2s I found them much better out the box and really been pretty happy with the amount of feeling, they also get quite good at smearing once bedded in.
I don't fit any other La Sportiva shoes, firmly an instinct vs shaped foot...
V2.
I know it sounds ridiculous because people climb really hard in them but for whatever reason I just didn't get on with the TC. Really annoying because I did an 1100m wall in them (amongst others), wore them the entire time and was totally comfy - but the lack of sensitivity really put me off and I ended up selling them.
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Otakis??
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Following this discussion closely as my stock of Blancos is slowly going towards zero.
Unparallel Up Lace are based on Blancos but with a few tweaks that stop them needing such an aggressive heel.
They’re what I wear for limestone multipitch and I have the same wide forefoot/ narrow heel combo as Mischa.
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I bought unparallel uprise pro for longer routes, happy with that, worth a shot
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TC Pro: Amazing comfort but too clunky and insensitive to work well. (for me!)
Shame. I used to think the same about V1 - how the fuck could anyway ever climb anything remotely hard in them... but I did get to, blindly, trust them and rarely had a foot slip. The V2 seemed to me to just have that bit more sensitivity out the box. They do soften up after a few 1000m of granite and I now need to wear them with a thin pair of socks. You just got to belieeeeeve man!
The only downside for me is when it gets more than 5-10 degrees overhanging they just don't two-in enough and therefore you just have to work harder, but as far as smalle edge and smearing performance, I've barely had a foot slip in them and if you knew me, you'd know that's a miracle! (footwork isn't my strongest suit)
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[...]
I think you've got to accept that beyond a certain number of pitches (and depending on rock type) your feet aren't going to be entirely happy.
This is surely the bottom line. I don't think it would matter what I wore for 30 pitches, my feet would still be hurting.
Quite. For me, the pain is getting worse with age as well. That's why I tend to veto anything longer than 10 pitches.
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Following this discussion closely as my stock of Blancos is slowly going towards zero.
Unparallel Up Lace are based on Blancos but with a few tweaks that stop them needing such an aggressive heel.
I have one pair of tight-fitting (i.e. single pitch use) US size 8.5 Blancos still in use (and one final fresh pair still in their original box). I bought Unparalleled Up Laces in US size 9.0 up to test for multi-pitch routes. I concur that they have a very similar fit and feel to Blancos, but I will go for US size 8.5 when I buy another pair as the current pair are slightly too imprecise. In other words, don't assume Blanco and UP Lace sizing is the same.
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As mentioned the Blancos are a good option but for me Sportiva Katakis are the best all round multi pitch route I’ve ever worn. Now discontinued but several places still selling them off. Down to £59 at Outside but only small sizes left
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Following this discussion closely as my stock of Blancos is slowly going towards zero.
Unparallel Up Lace are based on Blancos but with a few tweaks that stop them needing such an aggressive heel.
[...]I concur that they have a very similar fit and feel to Blancos, but I will go for US size 8.5 when I buy another pair as the current pair are slightly too imprecise. In other words, don't assume Blanco and UP Lace sizing is the same.
I really appreciate your insights. Great to hear about your first-hand experience, especially since they are unavailable in local shops. Your comments are reassuring though, and I might just give them a try.
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As mentioned the Blancos are a good option but for me Sportiva Katakis are the best all round multi pitch route I’ve ever worn. Now discontinued but several places still selling them off. Down to £59 at Outside but only small sizes left
Katakis strike me as a good pick. I took a 3 year hiatus from routes and in January went sport climbing in Spain and the only shoes I could wear for any time were the Katakis I took as a secondary option. For me, (and possibly irrespective of what Sportiva say), they are flatter, slightly stiffer, and less aggressive than the various Miuras and Katanas and far friendlier for extended use. Still precise though - you can focus the big toe on small footholds and smear well, but maybe can't quite claw back on steep ground like when wearing Solutions etc. The heel is that "S-heel" nonsense though, which I find bulbous and insensitive.
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Otakis are my go to shoe. Have found them to be good for very edging and have done big sport stuff in taghia up to rivières pourpres which is 7b ish.
I think they are the dogs bollocks for most things tbh. (Shark please don’t start wearing them as you seem to have a curse on you regarding discontinuing shoes)
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I've been on a quest for this kind of thing, (though more for multipitch stuff in the lakes/wales). I'm sure various pairs of re-soled red instict laces are still up to it, but been hoping to find a new alternative.
Got a pair of Scarpa Maestro, and initially thought they felt like a pair of clogs, but I've hardly worn them, (been a bit of a shit summer for me in terms of climbing).
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I got Scarpa Boostics one size up from my normal size for long routes and found they were really good for 8-10 pitch routes on limestone and granite, I've not done anything longer in them yet. Before them I'd have used scarpa VSRs but thought they were too soft to spend all day in.
Both Peter Croft and Josh Wharton like the Boostics for long routes https://mojagear.com/whats-in-your-pack-peter-croft/
They are also vegan in case that's a deciding factor for anyone
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I used to love the boostics for long routes on edgey rock, but the new version just doesn't do it for me!
In fact, it's almost as if they stopped the misdole a tiny bit short of the big toe for "sensitivity" which just makes them shit on small edges. They feel plusher, but actually, on a long route they don't work for me.
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Otakis are my go to shoe. Have found them to be good for very edging and have done big sport stuff in taghia up to rivières pourpres which is 7b ish.
I think they are the dogs bollocks for most things tbh. (Shark please don’t start wearing them as you seem to have a curse on you regarding discontinuing shoes)
I couldn't keep up with all the new shoes on the market (Sportiva and Scarpa seemed to be throwing loads of new models out) but I think I tried a pair of the women's Skwama and found them fairly comparable to the VSR in terms of performance but at a higher price point and a lot less comfortable with the single strap design.
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Brand new Miura lace-ups, half a size bigger than normal.
I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!
Miura lace-ups, half a size smaller than normal.
My old answer to this question would have been similar; whites size 8 multipitch, size 7 single pitch.
Since this year I'm down to my last pair of each, I'm currently in shoe wilderness and trying all sorts of things. Have just ordered, (haven't arrived), some Katana Lace which i'm told could be the answer to the single pitch UK lime problem, although I've had to take a blind punt on the sizing.
I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.
Unhelpfully i was loaned some Sportiva Ondra XX limited edition which I realised would have been the answer had that pair not been too big; hence buying the Katana Lace which seem like the closest thing...?
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I use Skwama for anything steep now, but I am still a believer in Miura for the vert or of-vert.
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I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.
I've heard the same about the VSR (I've not tried the F specific VSR); I think it's likely only an issue if you're heavier? Mine seem plenty stiff enough.
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I couldn't keep up with all the new shoes on the market
It's a bit crazy isn't it. 40 or so years since only real choice of 1 - Boreal Fire.
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Brand new Miura lace-ups, half a size bigger than normal.
I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!
Miura lace-ups, half a size smaller than normal.
My old answer to this question would have been similar; whites size 8 multipitch, size 7 single pitch.
Since this year I'm down to my last pair of each, I'm currently in shoe wilderness and trying all sorts of things. Have just ordered, (haven't arrived), some Katana Lace which i'm told could be the answer to the single pitch UK lime problem, although I've had to take a blind punt on the sizing.
I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.
Unhelpfully i was loaned some Sportiva Ondra XX limited edition which I realised would have been the answer had that pair not been too big; hence buying the Katana Lace which seem like the closest thing...?
Same situation, one pair of unused whites remaining. They've been my favorite shoe for about the last 12 years.. might just retire from climbing once they're done :'(
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I've got a box fresh* pair in 7.5 that I may be persuaded to part with for the right money :worms:
I'd thought I was saving them for something but as I got more and more familiar with the VSRs I didn't find the need.
*the box may or may not have been lightly chewed by rodents
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Mine are 8s and 8.5s unfortunately.
Roll on 3D-printing shoe-making. How hard can it be?
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Brand new Miura lace-ups, half a size bigger than normal.
I'd be interested in what people rate even for single pitch vert lime with little edges!
Miura lace-ups, half a size smaller than normal.
My old answer to this question would have been similar; whites size 8 multipitch, size 7 single pitch.
Since this year I'm down to my last pair of each, I'm currently in shoe wilderness and trying all sorts of things. Have just ordered, (haven't arrived), some Katana Lace which i'm told could be the answer to the single pitch UK lime problem, although I've had to take a blind punt on the sizing.
I tried some Lady Skwarma; they've rapidly gone from feeling very stiff to not at all and are definitely only really a bouldering shoe.
Unhelpfully i was loaned some Sportiva Ondra XX limited edition which I realised would have been the answer had that pair not been too big; hence buying the Katana Lace which seem like the closest thing...?
As I understand it, the XX are basically just Miura Laces with the addition of the P3 insert from the Miura Velcros, which is why they hold their downturn instead of flattening out.
The Katana Laces also have the P3, but are a bit less asymmetrical. So if they don't work out, and you're not wedded to lace-ups, try the Miura Velcros.
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I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.
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I think that's a valid point, calf endurance training (and big toe strength/endurance) probably always going to be useful in climbing. I appreciate the extra stiffness of whites since surgery left me with a slightly damaged sciatic nerve, which means the calf muscles in my right leg tire and cramp a bit prematurely.. a more supportive shoe helps there.
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I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.
This is basically exactly why I'm looking for a semi-stiff shoe actually. I spent a season climbing in totally soft shoes and my feet got a LOT stronger. It was a revelation and since then I can't bear the drop in performance on super stiff insensitive shoes. That being said on very techy vert lime shoes like the instinct lace just roll off the edges unless they're brand new so something stiffer but still sensitive like Miura VS is better. Maybe the Katana Lace is the right direction.
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The Scarpa Boostic may fit the bill. Stiff and sensitive, you don't need to downsize massively and hold the edge well.
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This is basically exactly why I'm looking for a semi-stiff shoe actually. I spent a season climbing in totally soft shoes and my feet got a LOT stronger. It was a revelation and since then I can't bear the drop in performance on super stiff insensitive shoes. That being said on very techy vert lime shoes like the instinct lace just roll off the edges unless they're brand new so something stiffer but still sensitive like Miura VS is better. Maybe the Katana Lace is the right direction.
No diss, but I think you must be very dialled in to precisely how each foothold feels to experience this. A lot of people in the UK wear Instinct Lace for vert lime and they manifestly do not roll off edges.
Is it possible you're overthinking it a bit? Is there really *that* much of a difference between Katana's and Miuras? Genuine question, as I just find the number of options out there to be a bit silly when for me personally there seems very little difference between a lot of them, other than the obvious really soft to stiff metrics. I guess it might also be the inner nerd that lives in most climbers that likes to obsess over technical details like cam holding strength etc, which I do as well! :)
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I appreciate the extra stiffness of whites since surgery left me with a slightly damaged sciatic nerve, which means the calf muscles in my right leg tire and cramp a bit prematurely.. a more supportive shoe helps there.
Nerve damage left me with a weaker left foot too. My left big toe sort of turns up and needs a lot more conscious effort to push down with. Having said that I wear soft-medium shoes that I wouldn’t have dreamed of being able to wear five years ago most of the time nowadays but that does partly reflect the type of climbing I do- if I climbed on limestone edges more my Unparallel lace-ups (Pete, these are the shoes you need, they’re tweaked versions of whites made in the same factory with the same materials) would get a lot more wear.
Also this is a thread about multipitch shoes isn’t it? “Get stronger feet” is great advice in theory but it’s a marathon not a sprint and a big part of wearing supportive shoes is not burning your feet out by half way up.
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Will defo be trying out the unparallels. Also, any news on when Barrows is going to write the foot aero/an cap/pow fitness bible?
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This is basically exactly why I'm looking for a semi-stiff shoe actually. I spent a season climbing in totally soft shoes and my feet got a LOT stronger. It was a revelation and since then I can't bear the drop in performance on super stiff insensitive shoes. That being said on very techy vert lime shoes like the instinct lace just roll off the edges unless they're brand new so something stiffer but still sensitive like Miura VS is better. Maybe the Katana Lace is the right direction.
No diss, but I think you must be very dialled in to precisely how each foothold feels to experience this. A lot of people in the UK wear Instinct Lace for vert lime and they manifestly do not roll off edges.
Is it possible you're overthinking it a bit? Is there really *that* much of a difference between Katana's and Miuras? Genuine question, as I just find the number of options out there to be a bit silly when for me personally there seems very little difference between a lot of them, other than the obvious really soft to stiff metrics. I guess it might also be the inner nerd that lives in most climbers that likes to obsess over technical details like cam holding strength etc, which I do as well! :)
Yeah sure I get what you're saying. That being said I'm somewhat heavier than a lot of climbers for the grades I'm mostly using them on (8's, 81-83kg) and I recently made the experience on a local techy 8a that some moves were really hard with the lace but easy in the Miura. The difference in shoe performance is actually really significant and shoe choice can make a huge difference in my experience. The Instinct Lace is vastly softer than the Miura.
For example the key difference between Katana Lace and Miura VS is the shape and profile of the toebox plus the adjustabilty afforded by the lace. Katanas have got a very thin profile which should be much better for thin cracks whereas the VS have a fairly high profile which makes them better on edges due to the increased angle of the toe but poor on cracks due to the pronounced toe knuckle. You can also lace them tighter in specific regions of the foot so easier to take a slightly bigger size for the long missions and keep it snug when it counts.
That being said I agree with what you're saying in the sense that I'd dearly like to just have some shoes that work well and stop thinking about it for a while. I'm basically sorted for single pitch, bouldering and granite/sandstone multis so pretty much just want to get a good comfy lime shoe sorted that can still edge hard and then it's on.
Cheque makes a good point about feet getting knackered as well, like I say up to 8-10 pitches it's no big deal but longer than that starts to be grim. Would just like something that edges similar to a Miura but doesn't hurt quite as much.
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The Ups were marketed as the obvious replacement to the Whites but I know a few folk who have tried them and reckon they’re soft and stretch a lot. The toe is pretty blunt from when I tried them. Definitely be prepared for them to stretch.
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The Scarpa Boostic may fit the bill. Stiff and sensitive, you don't need to downsize massively and hold the edge well.
Cheers Andy, Boostics used to be too narrow for me unfortunately but I might give them another try in the new version.
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Couple of points.
@SpiderMonkey - IIRC you're at the lighter end of the scale? I actually think discussing shoes amongst people with wide ranges of weights and foot sizes can be limited in its usefulness.
I have mates (60-70kg) who find the Scarpa Vapour a "stiff" shoe. I find it sloppy and roll off on extending edging session. I'm 77-80kg, 43.5 / 9UK
I had a brand new pair of the new Boostics, and literally couldn't stand on a hold on my current Dumby project, Endurance. Back to instinct VSs and it was fine. VSRs less so. Even my resoled VSs were much better than the Boostics.
@Mischa: Do you even haul, bro? Maybe a consideration would be TC Pros for 90% of pitches and a nice pair of edgey tight shoes for a 2-3 crux pitches. We really considered this for Sognando l'Aurora last week, but then both decided to toughen the fuck up and just wear the TCs. (and were glad of it)
Point 3- despite being a Scarpa fanboy I didn't get on that well with Maestros. ymmv, but they had a weird blend of insensitivity, lack of actual comfort (numb pinky toes) and actually not great performance on edges, and poor on smears. Sold them.
TC Pros FTW.
P.s. I've also started trying to improve my smearing skills and foot strength by climbing in Chimeras on non-edgy lime and sandstone etc.
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Boostics are not a good shoe IMO. Again, great marketing but the reality is they’re incredibly banana shaped and the back end of the shoe feel very soft. You don’t see any sponsored climbers wearing them.
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Couple of points.
@SpiderMonkey - IIRC you're at the lighter end of the scale? I actually think discussing shoes amongst people with wide ranges of weights and foot sizes can be limited in its usefulness.
I have mates (60-70kg) who find the Scarpa Vapour a "stiff" shoe. I find it sloppy and roll off on extending edging session. I'm 77-80kg, 43.5 / 9UK
I had a brand new pair of the new Boostics, and literally couldn't stand on a hold on my current Dumby project, Endurance. Back to instinct VSs and it was fine. VSRs less so. Even my resoled VSs were much better than the Boostics.
@Mischa: Do you even haul, bro? Maybe a consideration would be TC Pros for 90% of pitches and a nice pair of edgey tight shoes for a 2-3 crux pitches. We really considered this for Sognando l'Aurora last week, but then both decided to toughen the fuck up and just wear the TCs. (and were glad of it)
Point 3- despite being a Scarpa fanboy I didn't get on that well with Maestros. ymmv, but they had a weird blend of insensitivity, lack of actual comfort (numb pinky toes) and actually not great performance on edges, and poor on smears. Sold them.
TC Pros FTW.
P.s. I've also started trying to improve my smearing skills and foot strength by climbing in Chimeras on non-edgy lime and sandstone etc.
Sounds like I should be giving the TC another punt to be honest considering we're in similar positions weight wise and in terms of style. Long routes in the dollies and northern limestone alps is exactly what I have in mind. Hauling yessss, easy solution basically. Slower though but I suppose if there's lots of hard pitches you're not moving that fast anyway. The Instinct Lace are so good on granite though, I used them for a few big missions (14hrs+) in Norway this year and never felt limited. Basically just looking for that feeling but on Lime.
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Fucking hell are we all going to have to get Lattice plans for our feet now?
M - toe max hangs
T - repeaters session for arches
W - thought I should do some upper body but reminded myself never to skip heel day
T - thought about going climbing but needed to catch up on deadlifting a Snickers with my little toe. Thought about eating the Snickers after so flagellated myself.
F - rest day
S - went to the crag but forgot to bring my little portable toeboard for warning up so went home and had a session of tiptoe training.
S - fell off my project because I had that rest day on Friday. Or maybe it's my shit shoes and footwork. Not sure.
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training plan - wear Furias Airs for training. If they don't get your toes strong, nothing will. Add some ankle weights to compensate.
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Fucking hell are we all going to have to get Lattice plans for our feet now?
M - toe max hangs
T - repeaters session for arches
W - thought I should do some upper body but reminded myself never to skip heel day
T - thought about going climbing but needed to catch up on deadlifting a Snickers with my little toe. Thought about eating the Snickers after so flagellated myself.
F - rest day
S - went to the crag but forgot to bring my little portable toeboard for warning up so went home and had a session of tiptoe training.
S - fell off my project because I had that rest day on Friday. Or maybe it's my shit shoes and footwork. Not sure.
Fucking hell Will be careful, Remus is taking notes as we type.
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Boostics are not a good shoe IMO. Again, great marketing but the reality is they’re incredibly banana shaped and the back end of the shoe feel very soft. You don’t see any sponsored climbers wearing them.
Agreed, they’re useless at what they’re marketed for- too soft for long trad unless toe-scrunchingly tight which makes them useless for… long trad.
However, the asymmetry suits me and I think they’re a good multipurpose bouldering shoe. Just not suitable for multi pitch trad.
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Yeah I'm definitely at the lighter end which I appreciate changes the conversation. I am also pretty basic with my shoes though, just wear the same for everything unless it needs a toe hook and don't think about it too much. Maybe I could be climbing way harder if I thought about it more!
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Indeed. My failures are usually more directly attributable to having the wrong arms and fingers (ie mine, in a shit state) than the wrong shoes.
Default - Hard - Solution / Solution Comp. Not hard - whatever I haven't worn in a while, and is nearby.
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Fucking hell are we all going to have to get Lattice plans for our feet now?
M - toe max hangs
T - repeaters session for arches
W - thought I should do some upper body but reminded myself never to skip heel day
T - thought about going climbing but needed to catch up on deadlifting a Snickers with my little toe. Thought about eating the Snickers after so flagellated myself.
F - rest day
S - went to the crag but forgot to bring my little portable toeboard for warning up so went home and had a session of tiptoe training.
S - fell off my project because I had that rest day on Friday. Or maybe it's my shit shoes and footwork. Not sure.
Sounds nails..
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Fucking hell are we all going to have to get Lattice plans for our feet now?
M - toe max hangs
T - repeaters session for arches
W - thought I should do some upper body but reminded myself never to skip heel day
T - thought about going climbing but needed to catch up on deadlifting a Snickers with my little toe. Thought about eating the Snickers after so flagellated myself.
F - rest day
S - went to the crag but forgot to bring my little portable toeboard for warning up so went home and had a session of tiptoe training.
S - fell off my project because I had that rest day on Friday. Or maybe it's my shit shoes and footwork. Not sure.
Fucking hell Will be careful, Remus is taking notes as we type.
Product development is fish in a barrel for Lattice. Slap a Lattice sticker on anything and there'll be people who'll buy it.
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I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.
Whats he done on Stanage Raven Tor?
I've seen your CV; there's nothing on it
etc
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I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.
Whats he done on Stanage Raven Tor?
I've seen your CV; there's nothing on it
etc
I did only pose the stronger feet thing as a question. I have no idea. I'm just a boulderer who wears soft shoes.
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I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.
Whats he done on Stanage Raven Tor?
I've seen your CV; there's nothing on it
etc
Maybe not having stiff shoes from 1998 are the reason I haven’t sent bens roof yet
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I reckon there is a bit of a mix to it… I don’t find stiff shoes to be that insensitive personally and on long routes where you are standing on small edges it is noticeable (for me) how much less pumped I get, plus they are way more comfortable as they protect your feet a bit more (therein reducing sensation - both good and bad!)
Maybe having stronger feet helps to a point but also maybe on really thin sustained edging a soft shoe will always roll/not give enough support.
Also for ledge shuffling where you are faffing about nugget bothering stiff is better too imo
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I'm curious - have those who rely on stiff shoes ever tried training their feet to be stronger? It strikes me that you could then have the best of both worlds, a strong/stiff enough shoe/foot unit, with better sensitivity from a softer shoe.
Whats he done on Stanage Raven Tor?
I've seen your CV; there's nothing on it
etc
I did only pose the stronger feet thing as a question. I have no idea. I'm just a boulderer who wears soft shoes.
I expect you’d find stiff shoes more appealing if you had to stand around on small edges for 10 minutes trying to fiddle in a decent wire, repeat x times per pitch for several pitches.
The trade off is sensitivity vs screaming calves :devangel: I’m not overly stressed about sensitivity tbh
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I assumed the OP was talking about limestone multipitch sport, not trad, but I could be wrong.
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I guess multiple pitches of thin climbing amounts to similar things though?
And maybe people are replying to Liam about whether just getting stronger feet would negate the need for stiff shoes - I certainly was :)
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I assumed the OP was talking about limestone multipitch sport, not trad, but I could be wrong.
Eh, mostly trad/bolt mix on alpine stuff so quite often 50-60m pitches and long leads.
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OK.
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Anyone tried Boreal Lynx for this kind of stuff? Heard its pretty decent for £90?
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By the way I still have an embarrassingly large number of size 8 Blancos quite often just worn for 10 sessions on the Oak till they lost the cross toe stiffness I needed. Been selling them for £50 a pair
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Picked up some Katana Lace. Thought I'd need to go up half a size but surprisingly they were already comfy from new in 42.5 (street size 45). They seem much comfier than the Miura VS although I can see how the Miura is still going to be the ultimate weapon on tiny footholds.
That being said I tested the Katana out last night and my initial impressions were very positive. Feels like a stiffer Instinct Lace with a harder heel and so is pretty much exactly what I wanted. Loooking forward to getting them on some long pitches. Especially happy with how low volume the toe is because that will really serve well on thin cracks.
In terms of fit I was very surprised to find that they are as wide as the Miura VS (I'd somehow got the impression that they were narrower). The heel band was also less aggressive on the achilles than I expected which is a nice sign for the long routes considering that this is as tight as they'll ever be. The toe position in the Katana Lace is quite a bit flatter than the Miura VS which explains the rumored thin crack performance but also makes a big difference to comfort and sensitivity - although I can see that they might need resoling a little earlier if they were your main edging shoe because you'll be relying more on the front edge being stable.
Either way very good first impressions and definitely feels much better for me than the TC Pro intially. Let's see how it goes!