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The problem here is the fundamentals of the discussion wrong. The grading systems while comparable in some broad strokes are incommunicable to each other. A bit like different religions or other cultural practices.
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@Northern Yob - Generational thing? You being funny? I'm in my 5th decade and have been trad climbing for 20 years. I've climbed trad in Cornwall, Wales, northern Ireland and all across Scotland. E3 and E4 would be the zone where I probably have the best "feel" for grades, and, looking at my logbook I've done 83 E3s and 63 E4s. When I rock up to a new crag in a new area, I usually drop to the more comfortable grades and then build up. I'll look at the trad grade, description, maybe notes on UKC..., eyeball the route then think "aye, that looks a goer". So far I've found grades to be pretty consistent within +/- half an E grade and I've had similar success onsighting wherever I go.
Some places I've had more success, North Wales and Fairhead, for example - maybe I just had a good week, climbing well and good conditions, or maybe they were a bit easier? Who knows.
But fucking hell, if I rocked up to a crag and there was an E4 7a all I'd think is:
Are they on crack? 
Please put aside your straw man arguments about trying to relate back to sport grades... no one mentioned that, no one (in this thread) is arguing that. I'm not "back calculating", I'm using the UK trad grade exactly how most of the people I climb with use it - a scale that gives you an idea of the relative difficulty of onsighting a route.
Maybe in the obscure microcosm of parochial grit weirdness E4 7a makes sense? But in any place where you have to put more than 3 bits of pro in before topping out, it's bonkers and breaks the system.
Evidently not…. We are basically the same generation.
Isn’t this the same with all grades, there are always things which fuck it up…. A lot of 5.13 onsighters probably can’t get their heads around a 5.11 offwidth, how can it be the same grade as their regular warm up….
Have you been to font?? I like to think I can climb v6/7 pretty much anywhere (I can most places) there are things which equate to v4 in font, I can’t even get off the ground on. Does that mean they aren’t that grade? Adam ondra doesn’t fall off many v10’s I wouldn’t imagine? Yet he dropped Marie Rose. What E4 7a does is tell you it’s one of those rare problems before you even pull off the ground therefore doing it’s job perfectly… conveying information.
I'm not sure I really understand your point about Font. Those technical v4s in font will feel every bit of v4 when you execute them with perfect technique. On the other hand, a font 7B+ boulder problem is going to feel substantially harder than any 6C boulder no matter how perfectly you execute the former.
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The idea that WSS as an E4 makes any kind of sense whatsoever is ridiculous.
The problem with giving highballs E grades is that lots of people for way too long have conflated doing highballs after lots of work with onsighting trad routes. How many people have actually onsighted WSS?
If you compare doing it after work to headpointing trad routes, which is the only thing that actually makes sense - then WSS would be at least E6.
And Layby would be E5, Careless would be E8 etc.
ie: headpointing Careless is probably a bigger deal than headpointing E7/8's like EOTA or Gaia, probably not as big a deal as headpointing E8/9s like Meshuga.
flashing Careless is pretty much world class - bigger deal than flashing EOTA or Gaia, but probably not as big a deal as flashing Meshuga.
That's the only way it's actually consistent. The downside (at least to people trying to make a living out of hard headpointing) is that means that lots of "E4 climbers" suddenly find they can and have climbed E7's - which makes hard E grades suddenly look a lot less remote.
Easiest way to deal with all that is just not to give highballs E grades. And certainly not to give them completely pointless, inconsistent and confusing E grades.
I admittedly don't have too much experience with trad grades but if sport 8a translates to E6 or harder, then yeah it makes no sense WSS can be less than E6 considering there are virtually almost no sport routes less than 8a with a 7B+ boulder crux.
4
« Last post by Hoseyb on Today at 10:57:09 am »
My understanding ( admittedly from a point in my past when I still regularly trad climbed) was that as a tech grade spiked for the adjective grade, as it past the point of laced up with gear, the beast became more cruxy. So much so that a judicious point of aid could reduce it to a bog standard example of the adjective grade.
Hence there were S 6a and VS6b nestled away in the more exciting parts of the countryside.
A more sustained lace up would garner as higher adjective grade?
To be honest by the time my rack migrated to the loft, I'd got quite confused. The Beast in Me was my last internal debate as it was sportingly bolted with a sustained (safe) crux of eng6b armbars.
I opted for the Haston Hard Very Marvellous f7b (30m ish) as I could understand that ( although I've still probably only climbed around 100 outdoor sport routes in 36 years of climbing).
Rockfax interpreted that as a 7b sport route which could cause someone a nasty shock as the last third is unprotected and a f6c+ in their own right.
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« Last post by andy moles on Today at 10:51:01 am »
Have attempted a belated thread split
Heavy handed if you ask me, there has definitely been a theme of Significant Repetition in this
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« Last post by gme on Today at 10:40:46 am »
Thank god for that.
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« Last post by Oldmanmatt on Today at 10:26:42 am »
The AI on Apple devices is quite good. If you search for a person, it will pull up almost every photo of that person in All Photos. Even, with growing children, quite old/much younger shots.
It’s not limited to people, pick an object and it will pull up every photo with that object in it.
Usually then, I’ll “Select All”, “Add to Album”, “new Album” and away you go.
I also linked my Apple photos to Google Photos, which has slightly different attributes. Also because I can slide show on my Google Chrome device plugged into my TV. Casting from Apple to most TVs is a pain. They want you to buy an Apple TV device.
I use the above a lot for tracking down photos I’ve taken at trade shows for products I think might be handy someday. And because I’m crap at sorting things out at the time, end up with hundreds of newer photos and …
8
I use an iPhone and iPad and don’t have a laptop. I’ve got loads of photos and I’d like to try and organise them a little.
I have to admit I’m a bit ignorant in my understanding of how the photo storage works. I’ve not tried to organise anything for about 15 years, back in the days of laptop & crappy digital camera. So please bear with me…
On a laptop, all of my photos would get either put directly into an album/folder once taken off the camera. Or if they were just in “My photos” I could move them into the relevant album/folder.
On my iPhone/iPad, everything is currently in “All photos”. I know I can make albums, and I have a few, but the photos still stay in “All photos”. This means that making an album is a pain as you are never reducing the number of photos that you have to go through and select from.
Am I missing anything obvious, or is that just how it works?
Is there a good way to organise photos without getting a laptop/mac, transferring all of the photos onto the hard drive, and then doing it similar to how I would have done 15 years ago?
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« Last post by Fiend on Today at 09:58:34 am »
 That's a dank Saturday sorted then.
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« Last post by duncan on Today at 09:40:57 am »
Have attempted a belated thread split since, bafflingly, shark seems more focused on trivial things like the future of the BMC and a trip to Mingulay. Apologies to anyone whose bon mots were accidentally left in the car park as we drove off.
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