UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => bouldering => new problems => Topic started by: Bonjoy on December 22, 2021, 11:25:04 am
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Here’s a bunch of new things I’ve done since the last update. There’s a few of other people’s things in there too, e.g. where they’re part of the same development, or on the same block. The starring is conservative, they’re pretty much all decent, if I do say so myself.
Harland Edge – Distant Boulder
Hard Yards 7A+ - Sit start up Weather Front and trav low left to finish around the arete. A good techy fingery trav on perfect rock.
Duke’s Seat
Hawk Kestrel Manoeuvres in the Park 6C+
Lefthand start to Peregrination, start with LH on low undercut gain the arete/lip at (but not before) where it juts out. A bit arbitrary, but worth it for the tortured pun I thought.
Kestrel Kingdom 6C
A more direct/RH sit start to Peregrination
Private Prow RH 6C+
Start on the block on the right and gain the prow by an interesting sideways move and cutloose. Novel!
Wharncliffe – near My Condition
Below and right/SE of My Condition is an overhanging block stack.
Ripperoni Pepperoni 6B+
Sit start on the left arete and climb up until a rock round onto the slab can be made.
Stakka Bo 6B+
Sit start on jams in the middle of the stack and climb direct to the apex.
Stanage Plantation
Downhill below the Pebble, almost at the fence, near a marshy area. In the same cluster Crispin fairly recently added some new probs.
Vibin’ in the Ritz Car 7A+
From sitting on the far right, a right to left slopey trav of the mini Cowper Stone type boulder. Tops out at an angle change at the end of the steepness.
Bamford – Salmon boulders and beyond
Simon Jacques has also added a load of good easier probs around these boulders and further left and is I think recording in a PDF topo.
* Chinook 8A
The wall left of Something Silly from a sit start. Excellent if a bit reachy. FA Ned Feehally
Tsumen 6B+
The back left arete of the Something Silly block via a hanging flake, from a sit start.
Quinnat 7A
The wall left of Tsumen from sitting.
Sockeye 6C+
Below and left/NW of Something Silly is a sharp steep arete/prow. Climb this direct from a sit start.
Steelhead 7A
On the block immediately behind Sockeye. Sit start into a mantel onto the green slab.
Roughed Up 6B+
On the crag above the last couple of problems is a wall with a low roof/cave. Sit start in the break at the back, gain the lip and exit up the wall. No side wall.
Rough N Tumble 6C+
As for Roughed Up, then continue via the lip to climb the left arete.
The breaky buttress/wall just right of this block has some good warm-ups in the 4-6A+ range.
* Pog Champ 7A+
50m left of the Something Silly etc across a vague scoop/gully. Where a ruined wall meets the edge. Top notch steep compression prow from sitting. Not huge but packs a punch.
Poggers 7A+
The right arete of Pog Champ from sitting. Extreme toe hooking.
* Klem Fandango 7A (6C from stand)
10m left of the ruined wall. Climb the steep highish arete from a sit start.
* Hello Steven 7B
The wall right of Klem Fandango has a hard start and a steep finish. I climbed this with a cop out finish (7A+) into KF at the top, Jim Pope added the logical direct finish.
Rough Diamond 6B
20m downhill and 20m left of the ruined wall is a diamond shaped steep slab. Climb the prowy left arete of this from a low sit start.
Xenolith 6B
Climb the right side of Rough Diamond from standing.
Carats for Power 7B+
The centre of the slab/wall climbed dynamically rightwards. FA Ned Feehally
Zirconia 7C
Right arete of the face from sitting. Short and powerful.
Sturgeon 6C
Back up on the crag and a further 25m left is a sharp vertical arete. Climb the right side of this from standing.
Burbage South
Peaking Duck 6B+
Just right of Definitive 5.11 is a decent but hemmed in double arete prow. Climb this from a sit start.
Quack Pipe 7B
Starting from the end of the D5.11 crack, without the low plinth, climb the lip/prow rightwards all the way onto the back face of the block and a rockover onto the green slab. Fairly bizarre upside down toe-hooking fun.
Froggatt
Love Thy Kneebar 7A+
Below road level, 20m beneath the white gate near the main parking is a small undercut prow. Sit start under the roof, climb the arete/prow.
* Burt Backaround 7B
On the roadside rocks, 20m or so right of Isla Grace is a buttress with two obvious highball aretes. This is the central/left one, with hard moves above the low roof and easier climbing above.
** Elephants Gerald 7A+
The right arete. Start on the left/front side up the smooth arete, then switch sides at the flake and finish up the right side. Really brilliant (except for the cars).
* Lionel Reachy 7C
A further 20m down the road is another striking highball arete. Climb this on it’s right side above a branch patio (get to it while it lasts!). FA Ned Feehally
Renegade Pastor SS 7C+
On the Renegade Master buttress. As per the name. Some tricky setup moves into the original one move 7C. Wouldn’t surprise me if this settled out at 8A. FA Ned Feehally
* Egg Dance 7B+
The right arete of Ladies Wall from a sit start. Remarkably good for such an obvious unclimbed line. 7A from standing. FA Ned Feehally.
* Smiling Moon 7A+
25m below and right/south of Grands Doigts is a block with a crescent moon shaped ramp on the left side. Sit start on the ramp and climb up rightwards to a pocket on the arete and a juggy finish.
Lunar Lander 6C
The blunt central arete of the Smiling Moon block via slopey campussing.
Waxing Cresent 8A+
The right sidewall of the Smiling Moon block from sitting, on nano-hoists. FA Ned Feehally
Kogepan 7A+
This is one from ages ago that I forgot to record in a previous update. On the Stottie boulder, climb the steep face just right of centre. Not to be confused with an easier line above a bad landing a metre of so to the left.
Powdered Toast Man 7B+
Kind of a RH version of Kogepan. Climb the wall between Kogepan and the arete (high left foot rockover). FA Ned Feehally
<Jim’s Arete, don’t know the actual name> 7B
The left arete of the Pig heart Boy wall. FA Jim Pope
* Murder of Crows 7A
From the start position of Pig Heart Boy undercut right until a reach/launch for the ledge is possible. Finish up easy but prickly ground.
Cast Away 7A
May or may not share ground with the mysterious old line Cast Off. From the ground climb the wall and flakes left of Leggit. Great climbing but bring a spotter for the block behind.
* Beaunus Material 7B
As mentioned on the Rainbeau thread. Climb the low start to Rambeau into a steep RH finish staying on the underside of the prow. No harder (possibly easier) than standard Rambeau but quite different in style and very good. FA Ned Feehally
Curbar
* Fridge Magnate 7A+
Down and right/south of The Art of White Hat Wearing is an overhanging fridge type big block reminiscent of the Ultimate Gritstone Experience. Climb the prow of this front on from sitting.
Vittorio Bertazzoni 7A
The left arete of the prow.
Fridgeface 7A
The left wall of the block, with a tricky pull on
Gumotex 6C
The left arete of the crack/chimney left of Kayak, from a sit start.
Higgar
As mentioned on the other thread (apologies again for the retro-claim).
By Jupiter 6C
The left side of the scoop left of Jupiter’s Slab. Climbed from sitting on the ledge.
Jupiter’s Scoop 7A
The scoop direct i.e. without the shield/flake out right on Jupiter’s Slab.
Smallfield Roof
Fouganza 7B
Climb the main roof left to right without the low shelf to finish up the rh sidewall. FA Ned Feehally
Cratcliffe
Samantha Muesli 7B?
Supposedly E3 6a right of Invasion of the Cider Women. Given the grade disparity I reckon the original stepped in off the arete. Reclimbed by Adam Long via a direct start, grade is a guess, I didn’t get up it.
Gnomic Aphorisms 6C?
Highball arete right of Samantha Muesli.
FA Adam Long, though may actually be the line of SM which was put up by Paul Mitchell.
Roaches, Five Clouds Cloud Nein 7A -At the very far RH end of the Five Clouds is a head height roof. Start on the juggy break on the right of the roof, climb the lip left to a tricky rock/mantel around the left side of the arete.
No Claims Bonus 7A - Start on the left side of the same roof and follow the lip right, to finish up the right side of the arete. No footblock out right.
Gradbach Hill
* Monkey on My Bach 7A
On the buttress left of Phantom. The right arete/prow of the Hour Glass wall. A good huggy prow from a sit start.
Blackwell Dale – Hunky Roof
Hunk Life 7A+
This is the cave above Sean’s Roof, with some short sport routes on it. Big moves gain the hanging groove on the left side of the steepness.
The A6 Wave
Ride the Mild Surf 7A+
Right to left traverse on the left side of the crag. Start at jugs on bad Thumb, follow break and crimps leftwards all the way to the easy exit groove.
* Wave Mechanics 7C+
Sit start in the back of the roof left of Dan’s Groove. Cross the roof direct then go right to finish up Ned/James’ Problem. The tall can lank past the initial crux which drops a grade or two.
Mechanical Dan 7B+
The start of Waves Mechanics, then finish up Dan’s Groove.
Yorkshire - Snowden Crags
Guten Tag Frau Griggs 7B+
Below the Brock Block and right of the Skull Wall boulder is a vertical wall with a crack in it.
An eliminate line with good moves. Start right of the crack on the big sidepull and a pebble, climb direct via a thin sidepull and slopey arete. Avoids the slopey edges and other holds out right at this grade.
* Fewston, We Have a Problem 7A+
Sit start to JCB, climbing direct into the original via the overhanging scoop.
NOTE: Some of the best things have been up at Grinah Stone where we did some cracking stuff which probably hasn’t been done before as they required cleaning by abseil. I’d love to be able to share these and to encourage more traffic, but I’ll stick by the agreed no documentation thing. FWIW I think this rule is well past it’s use by date. There are so many hurdles to put people off going to this place that even people ‘in the know’ rarely actually make it up. I really think the place would still be extremely quiet if written up, people would just get more and better climbing done when they were there. If anyone wants info on stuff I know about up there by all means PM me.
Some images:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXyahu3IJaF/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXyeFPpIJXp/
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Hawk Kestrel Manoeuvres in the Park 6C+
:ohmy: bloody hell. That's, ummm....something, even by your standards.
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Hawk Kestrel Manoeuvres in the Park 6C+
:ohmy: bloody hell. That's, ummm....something, even by your standards.
This plus Love Thy Kneebar are contenders for best names of the bunch.
Best I managed this year Swelterweight (near Floors Craig, climbed on a very hot day).
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I like that.
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I was very please with Fewston, We have a Problem, as i was staying in the village of Fewston a couple of miles from the crag at the time.
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Great stuff.
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I was going to mention Burt Backaround as being noteworthy but didn't want to derail the thread (although I missed Hawk Kestrel... which, I agree, is even better)
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Lionel Reachy is also a favourite.
And I've had Klem Fandango on a list of possible names for a while. Like minds Bonjoy :icon_beerchug:
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:icon_beerchug:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grp-hFT2_u0
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This is generally one of my favourite threads each year (or every 6 months or whatever) - partly for the puns, partly to explain cryptic bits of chalk I've seen dotted about at crags, but mostly for the sheer volume of new stuff that gets uncovered. Awesome work Jon.
Smallfield Roof
Fouganza 7B
Climb the main roof left to right without the low shelf to finish up the rh sidewall. FA Ned Feehally
I'm assuming this one eliminates the lip for hands. Does it eliminate it for feet as well? If so, feels like it will be real 7B rather than Smallfield 7B! Had a brief play in April/May time and didn't make much progress, felt like I either needed to use the lip for my feet or be a lot stronger.
* Fewston, We Have a Problem 7A+
Sit start to JCB, climbing direct into the original via the overhanging scoop.
Off-topic, but we had an ill-fated project at work that was informally named the Apollo 13 project because the project manager was called Richard Houston. "Richard Houston, we have a problem" was regularly heard during the testing phase.
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This is generally one of my favourite threads each year (or every 6 months or whatever) - partly for the puns, partly to explain cryptic bits of chalk I've seen dotted about at crags, but mostly for the sheer volume of new stuff that gets uncovered. Awesome work Jon.
Smallfield Roof
Fouganza 7B
Climb the main roof left to right without the low shelf to finish up the rh sidewall. FA Ned Feehally
I'm assuming this one eliminates the lip for hands. Does it eliminate it for feet as well? If so, feels like it will be real 7B rather than Smallfield 7B! Had a brief play in April/May time and didn't make much progress, felt like I either needed to use the lip for my feet or be a lot stronger.
Cheers!
Yeah the lip is out for hands and feet. We didn't manage to eliminate the upper line of footholds at the back though (which would have made it more pure roof style), only the low shelf.
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I've stuck a bunch of photos on my instagram showing some of these:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXyahu3IJaF/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXyeFPpIJXp/
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Yeah the lip is out for hands and feet. We didn't manage to eliminate the upper line of footholds at the back though (which would have made it more pure roof style), only the low shelf.
Ta, I think I get what you mean. There's the low shelf and then a crack about a foot higher that peters out at the RH end. Is the crack what you mean by the upper line of footholds? If the crack was in, I'd imagine you would be able to get heel/toes for at least part of the problem before switching to pure roof climbing the last bit.
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Good haul Jon!
* Pog Champ 7A+
50m left of the Something Silly etc across a vague scoop/gully. Where a ruined wall meets the edge. Top notch steep compression prow from sitting. Not huge but packs a punch.
This is worth 7B and ** imo (I did have a couple of sessions in rubbish conditions though so maybe does feel 7A+ when it's crisp).
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Great work Jon and co. The Bamford stuff looks particularly brilliant, lovely spot up there. I like the Froggatt Woods too, so will be sure to check some of that stuff out.
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Great work Jon, looking forward to trying some (many) of these.
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More importantly Johnny Brown, can you think of a name for the Cracliffe thing/s? 7b for Samantha Muesli?
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I've split the Grinah stuff off into a separate topic now.
Gnomic Aphorisms it is JB, I like. After all, core is paramount.
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* Fewston, We Have a Problem
Big fan of this, great work.
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* Smiling Moon 7A+
25m below and right/south of Grands Doigts is a block with a crescent moon shaped ramp on the left side. Sit start on the ramp and climb up rightwards to a pocket on the arete and a juggy finish.
Good call, your significant efforts were being swamped by the Grinah grumbles. I'll repost my comment which got lost:
Ah you found it! I wondered when, it was just a matter of time really. I stumbled on this about 20 years ago and it was so minging with a lovely garden of it's own on the top, never went back until last summer when I started cleaning the top off and left arete and was struck by the lovely rib feature. Glad you both gave it some attention and it's been done from the sit start it deserves. Our efforts were standing fumbles.
Great that you guys could develop the rocks on the Froggatt after the ash dieback work too and for my money's worth the best name is the fabulous 'Lionel Reachy - good effort chaps
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Sorry Simon, I realised I'd accidentally split your post out into the other thread, but couldn't figure how to then splice it back in where it came from.
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I did wonder who'd part clean the Smiling Moon block. Did you also do some cleaning on the roadside stuff? The top half of Elephants Gerald looked to have been tried and there's a still to be climbed project 5m right of Lionel Reachy that someone else has cleaned up.
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I cleaned the overhanging crack right of Lionel Reachy. I was intending to climb it as a route, as the gear is good and the landing is poor. Unfortunately I stuck my leg down a hole and tore my MCL immediately after brushing it. The slab/wall to the right of the crack was already cleaned with traces of chalk on it.
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The new roadside aretes at Froggatt look great. I'll have to go back with more pads and a spotter as they certainly aren't lowball! There was a lot of chalk on them so I assume they've had some ascents over the past couple of days.
I consoled myself with a very sweary ascent of Love Thy Kneebar just before snow rendered it unclimbable. It packs a lot into a few moves.
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Nice one! You find the crucial knee placement?
Yeah, the roadside aretes saw some attention this week, and Isla Grace too.
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I realise that you put a NOTE regarding keeping Grinah Stones undocumented, the same has always applied to the First Cloud too where you've claimed Cloud Nein etc. Is nothing sacred?
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I'm much more inclined to go along with the Grinah thing (hence asking for opinions and not having written anything up to date). The Clouds one on the other hand seems a lot more unjustifiable and pointless. What exactly is the rationale? My guess was that it was mostly about the slabby buttress left of the low roof. Which has some nice easier bits on it and a very cool project which ought to be recorded when it gets done.
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PS I'm not bothered about the roofs being credited to me, or having the names I suggested. I just think they're decent and worth recording.
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So because you think it's "unjustifiable and pointless" then you'll just go ahead with it? Good to see that the echo chamber of UKB is still alive an well.
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I don't think anyone is actually echoing Bonjoy yet. But my faint reverberation is that Grinah is an entire area miles from any other documented venues and it's location fits an exploratory wilderness experience, whilst First Cloud is a few minutes from the most well-used venue in Staffordshire and right next to buttresses that are fully documented.
But don't take it lying down (unless there's a lying down start?!), I'm sure there's a good counter-case to be made.
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Nice one! You find the crucial knee placement?
I assume so, but I'm not much of a kneebar-er so may just have lucked my way through. I had to use two different right knee positions, one for going up the arete from the starting holds and one for getting the crucial (for me anyway) dimple for my right hand. My little legs didn't fit the first kneebar very well so I had the kneepad almost on my knee. This made the move to the top harder as I couldn't bend my right leg enough to get my right foot up!
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So because you think it's "unjustifiable and pointless" then you'll just go ahead with it? Good to see that the echo chamber of UKB is still alive an well.
I didn't consult UKB. Didn't feel it was needed, any more than asking permission off anyone else.
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Nothing has ever been recorded or documented on the first cloud. It's nice to know that some places aren't categorised, labelled and recorded like some fossil collection. For at least forty years this had been the case, quite nice I always thought, there was this piece of rock which you could just go to and just enjoy for the sake without some predetermined line or claim. We could've put it in the last guidebook, but thought continuing the tradition was a good and positive thing. The same applied to the rocks between Roach End and the Skyline. There's some really great stuff up there, only five minutes from the road, but it's always been left out.
I just don't understand why you thought that you should just change that?
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I like fossil collections, I'm a fossil collector.
All undocumented problems have a long history of being undocumented. It's not a good enough reason to stay that way.
It might annoy the odd local but a few more people will enjoy that bit of rock and I'm unconvinced that these problems will degrade anyone else's day at the crag in the process. I think there should be a very good reason before we try to impose arbitrary gatekeeper decisions on others and in this case I'm sufficiently unimpressed with the reasons behind them to ignore.
I have climbed on the rocks beyond very far skyline. I never recorded anything, except for Ursa Major which is virtually roadside.
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Ok, so you've made a decision based on your own decision. Whereas you could've just left those two problems out (along with their sarcastic names), and climbers could've still just as easily gone and enjoyed discovering those problems for themselves. You'd still have your hoard of other problems and we'd still have a little place that remains seemingly untainted. I'm sorry Jon, but you are completely wrong in this case and entirely selfish; yet proposing that you've actually done something for the enjoyment of others. I
Instead of adding something for climbers to enjoy, you've actually taken something away.
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A decision based on my own judgement as opposed to what someone (you?) told me to do in a book, is a fairer description. Apologies for the names. That was my way of acknowledging that I was aware of the embargo but didn't feel bound by it. A bit childish perhaps, sorry.
Is the mud slinging necessary? I think you'd make a better case for your point of view by sticking to reasoned arguments for why people/I should do what you want.
Believe it or not I do a lot of things that I don't write up, including various things on the areas you've referred to. I don't write things up when there's a good reason not to. I didn't and don't see any reason here.
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Firstly, it wasn't a decision made by me, but it was one I supported in this special case. You might notice that I've not been on UKB for years, the reason I'm on it now is because this was raised with me, so don't think it's just me, it's a case which has been highlighted.
Secondly, the problems have been climbed before. But obviously it's a catch 22 for anyone to come forward. But, ultimately it has been somewhere which people have climbed on for decades but have all managed to keep our egos in check when coming to "claim" things.
Had I happened to be walking past when you were climbing there, I would've happily joined in. I think people should climb there, it's an ok piece of rock, I just don't see the need for every last buttress and boulder to be named, graded and rated.
If the only reason people go to climb on the First Cloud is because you've named some problems then surely the same argument could be applied that the only reason some people go and climb on the First Cloud is because there aren't any named problems on it.
Just think, there are other people out there who, just like you, get a great satisfaction from feeling they're the first to do something.
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I don’t understand the argument here. Who are these people? Obviously not you or your mystery informant as you know exactly what has and hasn’t been climbed. So are we talking about people who happen to stumble upon the place and then get told subsequently that anything they climbed has been done before. Or is the expectation that people will know the rules and go along to kid themselves they are the first to climb the clean and brushed problems they find?
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Look, ultimately if this is a big thing for you I can delete these from the update. Or is it too late for that, let me know. If it bothers you, that bothers me. You could have achieved this end with a PM and without the digs at my character and motivation by the way.
It's fairly irrelevant to me whether these have been done before. I'd assumed they would have been done in some form, though both required eliminate rules to work IMO, which is part of why documenting makes sense as not all climbers are good at reading stuff like that. They are nice and worth doing, by people other than 'in the know' locals. Your barbs about 'ego' and 'claim' would be valid for other lines, but not in this instance. These are two pleasant eliminates I documented because that's what I do (I could write a long post about why there's more to this than ego, maybe another time). They aren't important bits of my 'hoard', I would not feel diminished by their absence, I just think less people (lets face it, whatever happens they will always be obscure) will enjoy them without documentation.
PS - If I ever climb the central hanging slab on the block to the left I will definitely claim that. That really would feed my ego and be a jewelled crown in the hoard. Sadly I think it might be too bold for me.
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Just think, there are other people out there who, just like you, get a great satisfaction from feeling they're the first to do something.
There are absolutely loads of unclimbed lines in the Peak, especially in Staffs. There really is no need to simulate the feeling of doing something new in this way. Learn to find the gaps and go and do something actually new :shrug:.
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Or is the expectation that people will know the rules and go along to kid themselves they are the first to climb the clean and brushed problems they find?
I think the expectation is that people may find this piece of rock, enjoy climbing on it (or not) and then just move on, without recourse to registering their movements. Perhaps it's stupid suggesting that just one piece of rock could potentially be left for exploration? Granted there are other bits of rock knocking around, but I can't think of another example on an established crag.
I suppose the other stand to the discussion is that Jon clearly knew of the tradition and stuck two fingers up to it in his naming of the problems. Something which could have easily been cleared up with a direct message, hey Jon?
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I intended to document them despite the embargo, hence the names. I already made clear it was to some extent a statement about the ban and the idea that bits of crag should be treated differently based on the random diktat of guide writers. In that context why would I ask permission? It would completely undermine the point about knowledge being free and not owned and controlled by gatekeepers.
That said I've made the point and I don't wish to cause upset, so will remove the descriptions if requested.
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Andi I know you don't always feel one of the 'in' crowd at UKB but you really don't help yourself wading in all guns blazing. The context here is that in response to Jon's original post we've recently had a very long and involved debate about whether Grinah should remain undocumented. You might like to give that a read before dismissing this as an echo chamber. Suffice to say there are a range of opinions and issues at stake, and all discussed without the same heated insults. FWIW my emotional response is often aligned with yours but I don't think blindly following tradition is ever a strong argument, particularly when the tradition is just the opinion of the local 'in' crowd thirty years previous.
I like to think I know the Roaches pretty well but I must admit I don't recall hearing about this before for the First Cloud. First thing I did was check my guides and, yes, it's all there in black or white. But I don't generally carry a guide to the Roaches and haven't for years. Such traditions are far from the norm in climbing, in fact they are a very rare reaction to them. With the increasing pressure on the boulders and the decreasing ability of boulderers to explore I think there is a debate to be had about whether some form of documentation might be better than none, whether it is done via egos being buttered or not. I agree claiming problems of a difficulty which means they are highly unlikely to be new probably isn't the way to go about it.
Good line on the fossil collecting though, oof!
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There's a lot of talk of "bans" and "banning" here. Nothing is banned, it's just nice to leave some places undocumented.
I developed an entire crag this year (last year). It was amazing to do that, but, perhaps decades ago the climbs I did had been done before. I've no intention of recording it or documenting it. I don't get why everything has to become part of the "circuit"? Even GG managed to withhold.
The First Cloud, for as long as guidebooks have been mentioning it, has been that place where "there are a few good problems to be had" (albeit they're not that great and it's actually a bit disappointing after wading up through the bracken). I'm certainly not gatekeeping, no more than Jon is gatecrashing anyway.
As for all guns blazing and heated insults? I don't think I went that far. I think "fossil hunter" was about as insulting as I got ;)
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You called him selfish too
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Apologies, I didn't mean "selfish" as a heated insult. I simply meant it as acting in one's own self interests and disregarding the interests of others (regardless of whether they are a minority or not). :sorry:
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I developed an entire crag this year....I've no intention of recording it or documenting it.
Sorry to wade in, but this is a strange statement. If you don't document the climbs then you haven't developed the venue at all! Sounds to me like you just went climbing at a new venue and then gave nothing back to the community by sharing the place; now who's selfish?! :P
Seriously, I've a lot of respect for people like Jon, given the vast majority of my time climbing is based on their sharing the knowledge on where to go, and what to do. If we didn't have that climbing would be rather inaccessible to most people, and so if in his judgement these problems are worth sharing I trust him that it's the right thing to do.
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I think he should stick to fossicking :)
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I'm getting flashbacks to the Grinah Stones thread. And not good ones.
It's good to have the debate I suppose.
Well done everyone.
For what it's worth I agree with Bonjoy here.
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With the increasing pressure on the boulders and the decreasing ability of boulderers to explore I think there is a debate to be had about whether some form of documentation might be better than none, whether it is done via egos being buttered or not.
I think the healthy part of all this is that our generation still has new lines in the Peak to explore and these kind of debates have been going on ever since guidebooks were first scribed. 30 odd years ago I remember certain factions of a certain guide team who would sniff and throw derisory comments about new lines on Grit, that they would claim as 'eliminate and not worth documenting along with some pretty sizable crags that were dismissed (Then they'd go and nick all the lines and write them up for themselves!) There were debates on putting boulder problems in the guides back then and we were told 'It's not proper climbing' and not to waste time trying to document so many decent finds. Times and trends change, as does the sharing of information.
Dave Gregory who was pretty good at the new routing lark, always told us to keep exploring and extoled the virtues of sharing the information of new developments with climbers. Which I suppose is at the individuals personal choice. If you go and spend ages cleaning a load of new lines, climb them and decide not to publish any of it, that's fine. But someone else most likely will eventually. It's also fine if you want to share your hard work with others on Insta and spread the footfall and word to keep them in climbable nick. I've no doubt that loads of stuff I've been cleaning and climbing has been done before 'back in the day' - but it's good to see areas like Bamford going through a bouldering renaissance and people enjoying the climbing.
I think we are going through a really decent spell for new lines and it's quite exciting that an area such as the Peak has so many secrets and plumb lines left which are steadily getting done.
I'd be intersted to hear of your new Crag Andi, but then I am a guidebook nerd :)
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The crag is called the Wickenstones. It's about a ten minute walk from my house and lies within a small holding. It's an obvious set of rocks clearly visible from the road and ranging from 15 to 35 foot in height. Most of the crag is around vertical although the left hand side is more bulbous with an overhanging base. The gritstone ranges from a bit snappy to excellent, although it's all a bit scrittly at the top as it's effectively unused. The issue is is that lies in a patch of private land which is all clearly visible from the owners house. I spent lockdown talking regular dog walks which would take me through the owner's property (a footpath basically goes straight through his garden, it feels quite instrusive to be fair when you have to duck under their washing line to get along the path) until one day I finally met him, got chatting and managed to get permission to climb on the rocks. So, as you can imagine, that leaves me in a funny position. The best position I think is that I just leave it as it is. It's never going to get public access but that doesn't mean other people won't get to climb on it in the future, the owner is really lovely person, but you certainly wouldn't want to take advantage of that. If that makes sense?
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...and cue up the Bonjoy Wickenstones retro-claims :alien:
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The crag is called the Wickenstones.
Is this different to Garden Buttress of the The Wicken Stones described in the Roaches guide?
PS is Miriam Farm Rocks / ERF rocks still a no go?
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If that makes sense?
Yep it does thanks Andi, glad you gained access in the end and had decent experience with it all
There was a discussion way back in 2007 when it was discussed by the BMC and folk on the other channel too...
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/crag_access/erf_rocks_access-237930
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Andi do I remeber something about some climbing on a sensitive crag, an angry farmer and Justin Critchlow flying a kite or something?
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Is this it… https://thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=862
Comment from a couple of years ago
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No, this is a crag which lies between "Garden Buttress" (which can still be accessed if you ask the owner) and Miriam Farm Rocks (AKA ERF Rocks) which used to be an ok, but now you'll be asked to leave.... it's on my agenda to try and remedy this.
Grimer, you're confusing a few stories there but you've got the general gist: There was no crag, there was a kite being flown and there was an angry farmer with his mates dipping sheep up the road. "what the bloody hell are you doing on my land!", Justin (flying a kite): "playing cricket, what does it look like?"
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Is this it… https://thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=862
Comment from a couple of years ago
That was my comment, I didn't go again so didn't follow it up. Still waiting for Andi T to sort it out.... Titan is still on my lifetime wishlist.
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Ah, apols for poor quality research, should have checked grid ref. Always grateful to anyone doing careful diplomacy.
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No apologies needed.
Leave it to me. I'll make a definite point of visiting and seeing what I can arrange. It was the very first case I was given by Dave Bishop (legend!) many years ago and now I'm living so near I really want to fix some sort of access and do it in a fair and amicable way.
As to the original thread, I would like to apologise to Jon for being so haughty and I hope there're no hard feelings and I'll explain my outburst in person when I next meet you. Sorry x
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Cheers Andi. Absolutely no hard feelings, even though you suggested I have less self restraint than Gary Gibson :lol:. Sorry about the smart arse problem names. X to you too.
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Leave it to me. I'll make a definite point of visiting and seeing what I can arrange. It was the very first case I was given by Dave Bishop (legend!) many years ago and now I'm living so near I really want to fix some sort of access and do it in a fair and amicable way.
:great: fingers crossed. Thanks
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X to you too.
Spare us the love in, we want handbags! :)
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Does Gibson even winch?
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Leave it to me. I'll make a definite point of visiting and seeing what I can arrange. It was the very first case I was given by Dave Bishop (legend!) many years ago and now I'm living so near I really want to fix some sort of access and do it in a fair and amicable way.
Dave Bishop - the first person I ever trad claimed with. Savage intro to crack climbing and jamming at Ramshaw. Legend indeed.
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Does Gibson even winch?
Not often enough going by the number of huge blocks/ledges falling off his routes.
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:clap2: