|
|
91
« Last post by Tony on April 25, 2024, 11:26:28 am »
Perhaps your point is that is being intolerant of racist abusers and not respecting the validity of their racism or something.
Er, no, manifestly that was not my point and I’ll sue you for libel should you wish to write that more definitively- I jest. What I mean is that it is not OK to turn a blind eye if we see someone being harassed, especially if we are part of eg a march and the abuse is being perpetrated by fellow marchers. We have to call it out and confront it.
And my point was, in daily life this -sadly- happens all the time because: people don’t want to speak out or people feel unable to speak out (due to power imbalance or intimidation or wanting to belong, etc, etc) or people expect someone else to speak out. In that procession, I expect most people would not agree with insulting behaviour but they may not have felt able or willing to confront it. They may also have felt intimidated. Can you genuinely say you’ve never turned a blind eye to anything, ever? If not, you’ve either led a very righteous life indeed or you’re very blind.
92
« Last post by stone on April 25, 2024, 11:10:09 am »
The only thing that protects the whole world from descending into a Gaza type nightmare is the extent to which we stand up for neighbours who aren't like us.
Just to point out: this is a completely specious statement. It actually makes exceptionally little sense in the Israel-Palestine (inc. Gaza) context.
I presume you mean something more like “tolerance”. But that’s not what you wrote.
What I mean is that it is not OK to turn a blind eye if we see someone being harassed, especially if we are part of eg a march and the abuse is being perpetrated by fellow marchers. We have to call it out and confront it. Perhaps your point is that is being intolerant of racist abusers and not respecting the validity of their racism or something. Well yes it is and yes that is what we must do.
93
« Last post by cowboyhat on April 25, 2024, 11:08:11 am »
There was also a piece on C4 news - where they found phone footage of bloke trying to cross the march on at least two other occasions and being asked not to by two different police officers. It appears that his behavior was being observed by a plain clothes officer and when G was challenged about this and denied it - said officer piped up to contradict him.
Bit of a weird flex; I edited that VT. The episode was plainly a stunt; one that he would argue serves to draw attention to the very real situation such as Mike is describing. Jewish colleagues, notable very serious journalists, tend to think that it doesn't help at all and fans the flames. I listened to a couple of big rants about his antics and those state funded type organisations that don't represent the views of most jewish Londoners. I wonder if it does help; keeping the wider antisemitism in the public eye...? Aside from this informed conversation most people just see the initial headlines. In the footage there are Jewish people who were on the Free GAza march, trying to help the police/ intervene with the stunt because this bloke is a widely known character. Other footage included some pretty full on vitriol constantly being shouted at the official counter protest; someone mentioned the 'shame on you' more innocent end of it. Unusually the police come out of this whole thing really well. As Andy points out, things are better here.
94
« Last post by andy popp on April 25, 2024, 11:05:36 am »
Meanwhile, on American university campuses, the right to protest (let alone counter protest) appears to dying a rapid death.
95
« Last post by mrjonathanr on April 25, 2024, 11:02:05 am »
Tony, that rather depends on your understanding of ‘confrontational’. Asserting the validity of others’ rights to be different; active tolerance, let’s say. That was my reading and a position I’d agree with.
96
« Last post by mrjonathanr on April 25, 2024, 10:52:51 am »
I’d love to think education is the answer, but teenagers are not the most stable or receptive audience…
It’s not the single, magic bullet-type answer, but it’s going to be cheaper in the long run than ceding to ignorance. And it doesn’t start and stop at the school gate. We are all involved in educating each other and I thank this forum for that; it’s a stimulating place, with some thought provoking posters (thanks to Stone for starting this thread). There’s no single answer, but schools have a role play. I’d say formal education is a key component of a successful society, which is why the decline of curriculum time for arts and creative subjects since 2010 is such a loss. Creative and critical thinking is essential in shaping a healthy society.
97
« Last post by Tony on April 25, 2024, 10:48:35 am »
.
I presume you mean something more like “tolerance”. But that’s not what you wrote.
From one pedant to another: I think the intended meaning was clear enough. Wittgenstein aficionados may disagree.
Well, “stand up for” does rather imply a more confrontational approach than “tolerance”. They really are quite different.
98
« Last post by mrjonathanr on April 25, 2024, 10:43:39 am »
.
I presume you mean something more like “tolerance”. But that’s not what you wrote.
From one pedant to another: I think the intended meaning was clear enough. Wittgenstein aficionados may disagree.
99
« Last post by Tony on April 25, 2024, 10:38:05 am »
The only thing that protects the whole world from descending into a Gaza type nightmare is the extent to which we stand up for neighbours who aren't like us.
Just to point out: this is a completely specious statement. It actually makes exceptionally little sense in the Israel-Palestine (inc. Gaza) context. I presume you mean something more like “tolerance”. But that’s not what you wrote.
100
« Last post by mrjonathanr on April 25, 2024, 10:28:53 am »
Been listening to the anarchist techno collective Spiral Tribe recently. Not really aware of them before which is an omission, given their central role in the development of techno and the Free Party scene. Still going strong 3 decades later, this mix is from ‘93: https://youtu.be/uB83FQ-1xzY?t=3764
|
|
Recent Posts