UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => get involved: access, environment, BMC => Topic started by: Johnny Brown on November 15, 2017, 01:11:37 pm
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Some of you will have noticed the recent graffiti on top of the Cowperstone.
Initial attempts to remove it with water, wire brush and conservation volunteers were not successful. Tom the ranger has now got hold of some paint remover but needs a few climber-types to help with removal.
Any volunteers?
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Im away until 27th November but would be happy to lend a hand after that. I'll drop you a PM with my contact details in a sec.
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Yep, I'll volunteer, been annoying me for ages. Get in touch direct word.
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I'll lend a hand Adam.
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Me too squire
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Sounds like you have enough volunteers but assuming a good method is found I'd definitely be up for helping removing graffiti from other grit crags with the same problem.
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I'd be happy to help too, if needed.
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Apparently this is the only stuff that can be used on the sandstone in central Edinbrugh http://www.graffitiremovalltd.co.uk/our-products/heritage-graffiti-remover
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Headed up to the Cowperstone this afternoon and had a reasonably productive test session.
I took stuff for a few different methods. I was hoping in parts where the paint was thick and on dirty rock it might peel off easily but unfortunately very little of it was thick enough. A metal paint scraper was effective for the thicker parts. A wire brush was most effective, the rock appears to be reasonably robust and the scraper take off the paint and some lichen but doesn't do too much damage to the rock. I resorted to some thick gel paint remover, working it in to the texture with a scrubbing brush. After a few minutes the wire brush is now much more effective. I tried to collect as much residue as possible, it was pretty windy when I was up there so some of the flakes blew around. A softer brush/broom would be useful to tidy up. Due to the think type of paint, I doubt 'graffiti remover' type stuff, designed for spray paints would be very effective.
I concentrated on the right hand 'V', I was reasonably pleased with the results despite the shots not looking great, it obviously needs some more work. I took the 'after' shots after I'd rinsed it down with some water, so the surrounding rock was darker and the flash picked out the residue paint.
Before
(https://preview.ibb.co/fajkf6/before2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6Pkf6)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mAZFDR/before1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jVGj7m)
After
(https://preview.ibb.co/fwFQf6/after.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mVmWL6)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hAkfDR/after2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nfoNSm)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jQr97m/after3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5AfDR)
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What a fucking eyesore. Would wad but on phone and the IOs aren't down with that.
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Top effort Toby. This week looks warmer and wetter so could be ideal for more.
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Looks grim, well done for making the efforrt. Wadded.
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Would a small generator, pressure washer, and several buckets of water (refilled from stream?) be effective??
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:(
Great effort. Wadded.
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Would a small generator, pressure washer, and several buckets of water (refilled from stream?) be effective??
I did consider this Sam, as I have a small genny and pressure washer. However they need a surprising amount of watts. My genny is 800w max and only really good for 500w continuously. Even a small PW needs over 1kw so at least a 2kw genny which is pretty big. Then you need a solid walled hose if your drawing water from a bucket, plus a filter if the waters dirty. A petrol powered PW would be ideal but hiring one is expensive and you'd need a load of water.
I know someone with a battery powered washer designed for bikes but I doubt they are very powerful. We could probably borrow it to test.
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Something like this would be ideal but besides the cost it would be a mission to get it up the track. https://www.hss.com/hire/p/compact-pressure-washer-bowser
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Pressure washer is a good idea but as Obi says water supply is the main issue here. Obi that hire thing looks great but weighs 78kg! That's not going to the cowperstone unless it gets a ride on a quad with trailer or similar. Looking at a lot of logistics. Alternatively you could ferry in water in shuttles and use it to fill an empty bowser which can all be done with manpower. Then you'd have to overcome genny issue. Big gennies are heavy, very heavy. Overall I would say this would be a last resort after trying mechanical and "light touch" chemical means. However if a small scale pressure washing alternative can be found to test it could be useful.
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I wonder how CAN got the sand blasting kit into Froggatt. Neil should be there on Weds.
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You could probably pull a pneumatic wheeled trolley along the Froggatt track and leave the kit on top for the work. Not convinced the ground on the way to Cowperstone is suitable for that. You might be able to use a powered tracked wheelbarrow thing though. Or you could just get something strapped to a stretcher and manhandle it but it'd need a lot of hands. Neil could have some good info on the whole process though, its the sort of job that's similar to ones they probably do lots of on the railways.
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I have a petrol powered pressure washer (Aldi special) that works well, problem is water supply (the PW does have a pump that can suck water out of a stream but need to buy all the attachments for that
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The stream isn't too far away (50yds?) to ferry water and an empty container wouldn't weigh much. From memory pressure washers don't use as much water as you might think. Question is if it'll shift the paint.
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I wonder how CAN got the sand blasting kit into Froggatt. Neil should be there on Weds.
Kit was taken in on top track with a land-rover i think. Don't think Cowperstone path wide enough? Portable sandblaster/small compressor would get the best results for sure but be a right pain to get in there unless can do with a 4wd.
CAN did the Froggatt job as a freebie iirc...
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The stream isn't too far away (50yds?) to ferry water and an empty container wouldn't weigh much. From memory pressure washers don't use as much water as you might think. Question is if it'll shift the paint.
It would do in combination with some paint remover. I found a water source next to the main path, is that the one you mean or is there one closer?
A decent pressure washer will clean the rock too much initially, but it should darken down again after a couple of seasons. We can always rub some soil into it to darken it if necessary.
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We've carried many a generator across fields etc in my caving days. We had one (not sure if we've still got it) that had 'loops' welded to the frame so you could slide two scaff poles in and carry it like a stretcher.
4 people can carry a 8kVa genny to the cowper stone easy. Not even sure you'd need one that powerful anyway.
That said, Jims petrol pressure washer kills both those stones in one bird. If it'll suck water (rather than relying on mains pressure) then even better, just a couple of large 'trugs' filled with water from the stream. And yes, pressure washers use very little water compared with say a garden hose.
Be up for helping subject to being free from kids etc.
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I found a water source next to the main path, is that the one you mean or is there one closer?
Yeah, the stream to the E comes closer than the path, and has more water. Have a look on the satellite view on google maps: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Burbage+Bridge/@53.3447955,-1.6194886,243m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x61663ebf93d60953!8m2!3d53.3431402!4d-1.6086227
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What do people reckon about the resultant 'clean' rock after pressure washing.
It does take a long long time for it to 'weather' back into looking natural, I think the frogatt stuff has only just about faded in the last few years.
Of course it has to be better than the white paint, but still sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Local builders use cow muck to blend new stone in on extensions around the valley (this is not a wind up)..........
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Local builders use cow muck to blend new stone in on extensions around the valley (this is not a wind up)..........
I've heard of natural yogurt being recommended to encourage lichen growth on new walls.
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I've heard of natural yogurt being recommended to encourage lichen growth on new walls.
Mmm, Danone if that would work...
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Thinking this weather will be helping loosen things, anyone free in the near future for a bash? Guess a lamp session is an option?
Jim, any idea if your washer needs mains water pressure? Any escape from baking/tiling duties on the horizon?
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the PW does have a pump that can suck water out of a stream but need to buy all the attachments for that
How much are we talking??
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Is it this one..
https://www.aldi.co.uk/workzone-petrol-pressure-washer/p/077436150399400
A portable Petrol Pressure Washer with 6m high pressure hose and adjustable nozzles. Removes embedded dirt and grime, flaking paint, loose dirt and mud. Suitable for use on cars, concrete, paths, driveways, outdoor furniture, garden furniture and more.
Accessories Included
5 Nozzles, 600ml Oil, Spanner, Screwdriver, Hex key
Features
Strong, painted metal frame with wheels
Portable
Removes embedded dirt & grime, flaking paint, loose dirt & mud
Suction feature for using with static water (such as watter butts)
Heavy duty spray gun
Rated pressure: 180bar
Max. pressure: 250bar
Flow rate: 8,3 l/min
Max. flow rate: 9,3 l/min
Max. water flow rate: 558 l/h
Max. water temperature: 50°C
Max. suction height: 1m
Powerful 7 HP 4-Stroke-Motor
Engine size: 212cc
Power consumption: 5.100W
Pump-head made from copper
3.25L fuel tank
0.6l oil tank
3.95L detergent tank
Soft-grip handle
6m high pressure hose
30 cm plastic wheels
2 Rubber-Bumper for safe stand
Sound Pressure Level: ca. 107,8 db
5 changeable Nozzles: 0°/15°/25°/40°/Detergent Spread Nozzle
Accessories included
With a flow rate of ~9l/min, you could easily run it from a large trug, that you could top up with buckets filled from the stream.
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I'd be up for helping btw.
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Thinking this weather will be helping loosen things, anyone free in the near future for a bash?
I'm off work on Wednesday.
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Worst donkey marks ever. Good job getting stuck in guys.
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I'm free on Saturday. Anyone is planning on heading up to have a go at it?
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Jim's jetwasher isn't going to be available for a while so feel free to have a crack in the meantime. It has been suggested that it might be white line paint so a blowtorch might be worth a go. Go gentle obvs.
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I'm free on Saturday. Anyone is planning on heading up to have a go at it?
Saturday afternoon might work.
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I'm free on Saturday. Anyone is planning on heading up to have a go at it?
Saturday afternoon might work.
Nice one. My mate Adam is keen as well. What I lack in experience I hope to make up for with enthusiasm. What equipment shall I bring, bearing in mind I own neither a blowtorch nor anything more powerful.
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Stiff brush and a bucket should do it.
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Further progress this weekend. Reeve and his mate Adam headed up yesterday and made some good progress (cheers fellas, good work!). I couldn't make it yesterday but I headed up this afternoon and did a bit more. There isn't actually much paint left now, probably less than 5% of what was there originally. It still looks a bit of a state, the last bit is pretty ingrained and tough to get out. I took a wire brush attachment for a cordless drill, and whilst effective on the paint it started to take off some grit in places so needs to be used carefully. I took a blow torch to test but it did nothing other than scorch the rock . A bit more wire brushing would be useful in places if anyone's passing and has some spare time. It would be good to get pretty much all the paint off so the now clean rock has a chance to blend back in with some lichen growth.
After Reeves efforts...
(https://preview.ibb.co/g7g7cw/IMG_20171203_143542357.jpg)
After my efforts...
(https://preview.ibb.co/nrpFVG/IMG_20171203_154049156.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jVhfxw/IMG_20171203_154108075.jpg)
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Fantastic effort, thanks guys!
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Nice one Obi-wan... you must have put in some serious effort! Adam and I tried searching instagram etc wondering if it was someone's tag - but no luck. I can't fathom what the perpetrators were thinking.
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Obi-wan - wadded
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Nice one Obi-wan... you must have put in some serious effort! Adam and I tried searching instagram etc wondering if it was someone's tag - but no luck. I can't fathom what the perpetrators were thinking.
Cheers fellas, good team effort. Yeah I was wondering the same, really strange place to go to the effort, as it's not easily seen from the ground, I wondered if it was done to film from a drone or something. The more I look at it the more I think it's a stylised way of writing 'cnut'. That's certainly the name I'd give to the miscreants.
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Update and thanks from Tom, the Peak Park Ranger.
Please could you pass on my huge gratitude to those folk that took their own time to remove the graffiti on Cowper Stone.
I can’t say how grateful I am for all the effort that was put in.
I went up yesterday afternoon and put on another layer of the ‘remover’ which should work in, and then the up-coming weather will do the rest.
Once again, thanks for the continued care and commitment to Stanage.
Kind regards,
Tom Lewis
Nice one guys :great:
If it's piss-rapt with snowmelt over the weekend I might have another bash at the remainder.
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I reckon it'd be worth rubbing some sheep poo into rock after cleaning, to promote re-greening.
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Sad news is that there is fresh grafitti on top of the Cowper. Seems to be same folk as before - similar symmetrical pattern and paint. Think it must have been done over bank hol weekend, there were still wet dollops a few days after that weekend.
Good news is that the previous stuff had really faded after the wirebrushing and scrubbing efforts, such that it’s basically invisible from any kind of distance. Other good news is that this fresh batch isn’t laid on quite as thickly and isn’t quite as big a design.
It just seems to be white gloss if that helps with ideas for getting rid. Last time a load of water, wire brushes and (delicate) scraping did most of the tricks I think. Possibly best to wait for a wet spell and head out in the rain for anyone tempted to give it a go...
Would be great (if unlikely) to catch the idiots doing this - worth keeping an eye out if you’re climbing, running or whatever in the area.
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This picture (if it works) shows the new stuff, and you can also make out the old (cleaned) stuff just above...
http://imgur.com/a/sUYglgH
(http://imgur.com/a/sUYglgH)
edit: meh, failed to embed picture but hopefully the link works...
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Link works fine.
Idiots... looks like they’ve used a roller...
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(https://chequepictures.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/img_0332.jpg)
Descent side of the leaning block at Higgar.
A lot of it is on top of that crusty perma-lichen so a stiff enough brush will make inroads. I’ll have a go tomorrow but I only have wooden-bristled brushes that haven’t been great on graffiti in the past.
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FFS. The plan with the cowperstone was to wait for wet weather and then jet wash. I'll let them know about this one too.
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That doesn't half look like it says cheque! Covering your tracks Mike? :worms: :whistle:
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Yeah, can’t tell if it’s “CHEKS” or “CHOKS”. Either way they screwed up their planning as the S is on the little ramp feature to the right. :wank:
I’ve been up and had a go just now. Amazingly cold and windy up there! As predicted my wooden brush didn’t do much apart from on the small areas I was able to wet where it was really quite effective.
Lots of rain forecast for tonight and tomorrow so I might go back tomorrow and have another go.
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This is how I’ve left it today.
(https://chequepictures.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/img_0336.jpg)
That’s with pouring a total of 3 litres of water down it and going at it with a wooden scrubbing brush. It’s pretty water-soluble, probably due to being on such a lichenous wall.
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Legend, well done!
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Great stuff Mike! Thanks.
Just a quick mention about the Cowper Stone, the graffiti from winter is now fully gone although the rock is still much lighter from where it was. The Stanage warden (Mark) and I have been cleaning the more recent (May?) graffiti. We've had a couple of sessions on it already, and if our next attempt doesn't finish it off I might request some extra hands to help with it.
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Any tips for something that has appeared at Almscliff recently. Some spunk bucket has done a load of tags up on Jess's Roof by the looks of it. Some of the spray paint is on actual holds and the rock is clean and non-lichenous (and will rarely get wet naturally) - so might require a different approach?
If you're quick you can see it in the "story" of @betajunkie on Instagram. I think those things only last 24 hours though so it'll be gone before long.
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If I could work out how to add images here I would do so, any advice?
I don't know where to start with this as its quite sandy rock in that bit of almscliff. Scrubbing away might do more harm than good?
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If I could work out how to add images here I would do so, any advice?
You need to upload them to a website then link to them in your post. Plenty of free image hosting websites out there- imgbb is one.
If you quote a post with pictures in you’ll see how the linking’s done- you just paste the address of the image into a post, drag to select it then click the icon that’s like a picture of the Mona Lisa.
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Last week saw graffiti scratched into side wall in Tom’s Roof btw, not sure whether this has been mentioned previously. Didn’t take a photo.
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Almscliff stuff below. I'll probably be at the crag on the first Tuesday evening in September so could do something then - if indeed any action is advisable on Almscliff rock.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1889/29280802147_37615e6759_z.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1835/42408900540_337bb649f3_z.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1894/44216865001_9efb605299_z.jpg)
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Gah - thats shite... at least its one of the most exposed parts of a very exposed crag so may get washed off eventually...
Looking for a silver lining - Thankfully it isnt carved in....
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Found some at Froggatt today- Small (60x30cm?) purple tag on a south-facing rock right at the top of Stiff Cheese, almost at the edge itself.
It’s entirely on a very thick and crusty patch of that whiteish lichen that lots of Curbar is coated with so should be brushable off with a stiff brush- ideally in the dry (which it is now) I’d say.
I don’t have a stiff enough brush myself- it’ll need a wire one I think.
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Am I becoming sensitized to it, or is it becoming more prevalent?
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Its becoming more prevalent.
In 30 years of climbing in the hope valley., there have been more instances in the last couple of years than the last couple of decades. Obv the 90s froggatt atrocity was the stand out occurrence. Wouldn't surprise me if something like that is around the corner.
Nobody's mentioned it on here yet but there are a bunch of tags around the back of higgar at the moment. Got pics on my phone but cba to go through the rigmarole of uploading and linking (#bringbacktapatalk). Fortunately they're tucked away and clearly not obv as I was expecting to read about them here at some stage.
Its a worrying trend!
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Some chummer has spray painted a rock blue on the walk in to Burbage South from Fox House as well.
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It's been there since midsummer at least
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Maybe it's someone from Chad getting revenge.