UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: shark on December 28, 2018, 10:17:54 pm
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In general, it seems to me that the baseline load should be estimated from the load in the muscle being trained. As left and right arms are independent systems, there is an argument that we should never consider their combined performance, or, at least, we should assess the arms separately.
If you think about deadhanging on a fingerboard, maximums for most people on two-handed hangs are typically not exactly 2x the maximum for one-handed hangs on the same edge; in fact generally they are significantly less than 2x. For example, I can do a one-armed 5 sec hang with about 5Kg removed on the lattice rung, which is a net load of about 60Kg (65 less 5). Last time I tried I was failing around 30Kg added for a similar two handed hang, which is a net load of only about 95Kg (65 plus 30). So my two-arm performance is barely more than 1.5x one-arm; they are distinctly different exercises
Not thought of this. Why is the discrepancy so big between one arm and two arm performance. By extension does this mean we should be training assisted one armers as the proportional load is higher?
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Using a block with 10kg weight attached for pinches so 20kg total for both arms
If you are picking up a block, with 10Kg attached, with one hand, your reference base-line is 10Kg.
What about if I pick up two blocks at the same time..
Well, one obvious question is whether your strength is symmetric between the two arms? When I was doing those pinch deadlifts (I have stopped as the exercise seemed to lead to thumb and wrist injuries) I found my right hand to be materially stronger. <insert :wank: joke here >
In general, it seems to me that the baseline load should be estimated from the load in the muscle being trained. As left and right arms are independent systems, there is an argument that we should never consider their combined performance, or, at least, we should assess the arms separately.
If you think about deadhanging on a fingerboard, maximums for most people on two-handed hangs are typically not exactly 2x the maximum for one-handed hangs on the same edge; in fact generally they are significantly less than 2x. For example, I can do a one-armed 5 sec hang with about 5Kg removed on the lattice rung, which is a net load of about 60Kg (65 less 5). Last time I tried I was failing around 30Kg added for a similar two handed hang, which is a net load of only about 95Kg (65 plus 30). So my two-arm performance is barely more than 1.5x one-arm; they are distinctly different exercises and baselines have to be looked at separately. I am not sure whether the results for pinch deadlifts are exactly analogous as I have not experimented but it seems a reasonable assumption.
First - I agree one arm is going to pull differently to two together.
Though - and I’m being devils advocate here - in the exercises you are comparing, one is reducing 5 kg - the other (should be) adding 60kg. I doubt I could stand with 60kg strapped to me let alone pull up....
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In general, it seems to me that the baseline load should be estimated from the load in the muscle being trained. As left and right arms are independent systems, there is an argument that we should never consider their combined performance, or, at least, we should assess the arms separately.
If you think about deadhanging on a fingerboard, maximums for most people on two-handed hangs are typically not exactly 2x the maximum for one-handed hangs on the same edge; in fact generally they are significantly less than 2x. For example, I can do a one-armed 5 sec hang with about 5Kg removed on the lattice rung, which is a net load of about 60Kg (65 less 5). Last time I tried I was failing around 30Kg added for a similar two handed hang, which is a net load of only about 95Kg (65 plus 30). So my two-arm performance is barely more than 1.5x one-arm; they are distinctly different exercises
Not thought of this. Why is the discrepancy so big between one arm and two arm performance. By extension does this mean we should be training assisted one armers as the proportional load is higher?
Because with one arm you can rotate in to a more powerful position?
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OK, so I've always found it a bit of a mystery how my better half can do certain moves on routes, using quite bad holds. On the fingerboard she is ridiculously week in the half crimp position. I've had quite a few ad hoc theories to explain this, but yesterday I tested her on one-handed hangs, and lo and behold: she was quite OK on them, almost strong enough for some of the moves she does on rock—I never seen anyone with that kind of bilateral deficiency in the hands.
I suspect that this might explain why she does seem to have a very hard time progressing on the fingerboard. Her coordination might be bad enough that she simply cannot load the forearms sufficiently to induce strength adaptions when hanging from two arms.
The last year she's done some one-armed work on pinching and have progressed nicely, but have had no progress on half crimp at all for over one year, and are at levels well below her recorded max (in 2011/12 when she did a lot of foot on campusing for short end strength endurance).
For now, I will set her a program of 1) one-armed hangs for half crimp and open hand, and 2) pullups on the fingerboard (in order to try to get over the bilateral deficit).
Any thoughts? Experiences?
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I've also never seen anyone who is considerably better at one-arm than two-arm hangs, and can't even imagine being bad at two-arm hangs but still okay at one-arm hangs.
Have you looked at her form when she's doing a two-arm hang? Perhaps with a bit of guidance, she may be able to learn how to hang from two arms sufficiently well to load the forearms enough to induce adaptation. If not, your suggested protocol sounds reasonable to me.
If the equipment is available, crimping/pinching a block with weight attached might be an alternative way to strengthen her fingers.
As Habrich pointed out in the link Shark posted, there is a mechanical advantage with one-arm hangs, which means they can take a higher load than each individual arm in a two-arm hang. This might help to explain some of the difference between your partners one- and two-arm hangs?
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If the equipment is available, crimping/pinching a block with weight attached might be an alternative way to strengthen her fingers.
She's been using pinch blocks for pinch training. Very successfully as well.
As Habrich pointed out in the link Shark posted, there is a mechanical advantage with one-arm hangs, which means they can take a higher load than each individual arm in a two-arm hang. This might help to explain some of the difference between your partners one- and two-arm hangs?
Yes of course, everybody except possibly the most well trained specimens, have a significant bilateral deficit. Still, I never came across anyone with such an extreme difference of what they can hang on left + right compared to with both hands.
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Do you think the failure is in shoulder engagement/strength during the two arm hangs due to the shoulder position compared to the more ‘closed’ position you can take with 1 arm, or are the fingers actually uncurling?
I found that when I got up to a certain amount of added weight on two arm hangs I actually had to go back to training basic shoulder strength to make sure I could maintain the hanging position well with the sufficient load.
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I don't think so as I've set up our pulley system so that you stay mostly front on one arm hangs.
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Could she be injured? For years I've struggled with press ups because one part of one shoulder barely works, if I do a press up I'd say 80% goes through my right hand, you wouldn't know from my climbing as it is very specific and I guess I naturally work around it. If she has something that is specific to hanging or crimping that doesn't manifest itself unless you actually do something that relies almost wholly on the injured part of the body it could be similar.
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In the case of jwi's better half, one arm hangs correlate with performance, two arm hangs don't, training one armed (foot-on campusing) works, but training two arm hangs doesn’t. Is that right? Why then are we worried about two arm hangs at all? Why not just train one arm hangs?
Theory: nearly all climbing moves are highly asymmetric, involve one arm much more than the other. Even when you start a move with a (bilateral) pull-up you usually end it with one arm pulling much harder as you reach/slap with the other. The consequence of this is training should be highly asymmetric. All that bilateral non-specific strength work (pullups, levers, rings), great for showing-off but how useful is it? Which is not to say that people (especially women and old men) shouldn’t do basic strength work but perhaps they should think a bit more about making it asymmetric: single-arm rows, single-arm planks, side lever/flag (if you still want to show off!), and for the legs, pistols rather than dead-lifts. This also applies to injury rehabilitation but that's another post.
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Theory: nearly all climbing moves are highly asymmetric, involve one arm much more than the other. Even when you start a move with a (bilateral) pull-up you usually end it with one arm pulling much harder as you reach/slap with the other. The consequence of this is training should be highly asymmetric.
I mostly agree with this, but when bouldering a lot of the time we pull hard with both hands at the same time, even when we don't have the body in a symmetric position. On techy vertical routes it is very rare to pull hard with both hands at the same time. Incidentally, my better half is ridiculously bad at bouldering compared to routes.
As I understand it, unilateral strength training — which seems to follow the specificity principle better the bilateral s.t. — has some weak support in the literature, but bros don't like it because of lower force production? I'm not totally au courant with current thinking in sport science/professional strength coaching tbh.
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Because with one arm you can rotate in to a more powerful position?
In addition to the more powerful position (getting more “under” the grip with a more inward rotated arm position), there seems to be some consensus that a uni-lateral load has some neurological advantages over a bi-lateral one and thus you would be able to pull harder.
I think this is why IIRC Tommy/Lattice said on one Podcast that they recommend uni-lateral Max Hangs for really advanced and otherwise maxed-out athletes, as it allows them to create some higher load and thus extra stimulus.
And referring to habrich’s point above on the relationship btw 2-arm and 1-arm max hanging finger strength scores, I assume that Lattice would also have some side-by-side benchmarks on how these compare to each other, as their regular test protocol is 1-armed, vs. their test protocol coming along for free with the test rung (as in the “my fingers” space on their site) seems to be 2-handed.
Anybody got any experience with that / could share their own values of how 2-handed is comparing to 1-handed?
For me it is (not tested on an original Lattice rung, but on well rounded 20mm edge from the wooden Rokodromo hangboard), half crimp @68kg BW
# 1-arm ( 5 secs): - 7 kg, so 61kg absolute load (for stronger arm, but with both arms being roughly at same level, within 1-2 kgs)
# 2 arm (5 secs): + 36 kgs, so 104 kg total load
=> Which makes my 2 arm load only 1,7 times the 1-arm load (104/61), as opposed to habrich’s roughly 1,6 factor (95/60 ).
Anybody has got any further reference values for this?
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It seems what you guys are referring to is the Bilateral Deficit phenomenon. A fairly well know, if not very well understood or studied phenomenon in sports science and physiology.
A pretty good review of the current schools of though can be found in "Bilateral deficit in maximal force production" (Škarabot et al., 2016) published in Eur Journ Applied Physiology.
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Maybe somehow merge with this https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,29794.msg576377.html ?
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Incidentally I tested both of these on a lattice rung (7s hang) recently and measured up:
1 arm = -6kg
2 arm = +37.5kg (not comfortable hanging this off my harness!)
5.25kg or 9% weaker per arm on the 2 handed test.
So a 1.81 factor - a smaller discrepancy again than BicepsMou
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BW: 86kg
1 arm = -18kg (68kg)
2 arm = + 30kg (116kg)
116/68 = 1.7
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For me it works out at 1.84, although wasn’t convinced that just getting comfortable with loads of kettlebells didn’t become at least one limiting factor.
BW - 68
One arm -3kg = 65
Two arm +52kg = 120
120/65 = 1.84
On the opposite side of this and probably not bouldering related but with squats the opposite seems true, pistol squats feel much harder than +70kg squats of any kind.
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In the 1 arm v 2 arm testing we've done there's quite a lot of variation, but on average 2 arm ~= 1.7 * 1 arm.
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Body weight around 63kg
1 arm 59kg for 5 seconds
2 arm hang 96kg for 10 seconds
Not tested 2 arms for 5 seconds though which in guessing others have? If not then 1.62 ratio
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on a lattice edge:
BW = 71 kg
left = -12 kg (59 kg)
right = -15 kg (56 kg)
Both = +34 kg (105 kg)
105/57.5 = 1.83
I always thought I was shit at one arm stuff but it's interesting to see it confirmed.
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I still think this exercise is flawed as in one you’re adding weight and in the other you’re subtracting it.
Large Weights dangled around your waist (makes it hard to really go for it non? - and also means you have to try really hard with core and other muscles holding that weight up) vs pulling a small force on a rope/handle next to where you are pulling really hard with the other hand.
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Last time I tried this was ages ago for Eva Lopez.
On a 1,5 flat edge (not incut) I added 63 kg for two arms at 65 BW.
At the time I wasn't really able to one arm it, so probably it was more or less the same for me.
I'm quite a bit stronger now, I can fully one arm it LH and I can add 5 kg RH at 67 BW, and I seriously doubt that I can add ~73 kg for two hands. In fact I'm not even going to try.
Full story here: http://totolore.blogspot.com/2012/08/63-kg.html?m=1 (http://totolore.blogspot.com/2012/08/63-kg.html?m=1)
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Maybe somehow merge with this https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,29794.msg576377.html ?
Done.
Removed my (now) extraneous posts and kept subject titles so its obvious which post was formerly in which thread.
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Oddly enough, neither I, nor my better half has any bilateral deficit. Our 2-armed scores come in at more-or-less 2x our 1-armed scores.
Better get training our shoulders...
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Come on Stu, you can’t leave us without numbers!
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I'm guessing Stu @ BW 62Kg
1 arm + 8kg, 2 arms 140kg
Or something equally hideous
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In the 1 arm v 2 arm testing we've done there's quite a lot of variation, but on average 2 arm ~= 1.7 * 1 arm.
Thanks Remus - much appreciated you are sharing this Information from your database!
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Oddly good guess Tom, except my body weight is 59kg these days.
+6kg for one arm. 135kg total two arm.
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Oddly good guess Tom, except my body weight is 59kg these days.
+6kg for one arm. 135kg total two arm.
jesus fucking christ
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interesting thread.
My numbers also come out around 1.8. I'm doing from memory and can't quite remember which numbers are for which hold size and I can get at least a plus/minus 2.5kg variation day to day. I'm sure I have a poor one arm score because of weakness in that position. I can lower down on one arm in control from chin to 90degrees at the elbow but below that I just collapse (something to improve)
BW 57, -10 one arm, +30 two arm.
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Oddly good guess Tom, except my body weight is 59kg these days.
+6kg for one arm. 135kg total two arm.
The +6 is fathomable (if not achievable!) but hanging with more than body weight is super impressive/disgusting
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+1
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I was thinking that probably as the hold gets bigger the discrepancy grows.
At least this is my experience.
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I was thinking that probably as the hold gets bigger the discrepancy grows.
At least this is my experience.
Ooooh - interesting
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:-\
I was thinking that probably as the hold gets bigger the discrepancy grows.
At least this is my experience.
Ooooh - interesting
Are you taking the p***?
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Adding some extra data as I think i'm an outlier.
I find adding the extra weight way, way easier than 1-arming:
1-arm: 69.5kg (BW-7.5)
2-arm: 144kg (BW+67kg - spread around the body, dipping belt, weight vests & ankle weights)
ratio = 1 to ~2.1
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:-\ I was thinking that probably as the hold gets bigger the discrepancy grows.
At least this is my experience.
Ooooh - interesting
Are you taking the p***?
Not at all. It’s a factor that hadn’t entered my mind and no one is citing edge depth they are basing scores on though presumably Remus’s are based on the lattice edge
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:)
As I said before, on a 1,5 cm edge my total score would be 67+5+67=139.
On the BM central rung (mine is 20/21 mm) I could add 20 kg RH and 16 LH, so 67+20+67+16=170.
A two armed hang on 1,5 cm with 72 kg added is horrible but feasible, with a good setup.
A two armed hang on 2 cm with 103 kg goes beyond my imagination.
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Adding some extra data as I think i'm an outlier.
I find adding the extra weight way, way easier than 1-arming:
1-arm: 69.5kg (BW-7.5)
2-arm: 144kg (BW+67kg - spread around the body, dipping belt, weight vests & ankle weights)
ratio = 1 to ~2.1
Tested this at the wall tonight and I also seem to have a bilateral surplus. One arm hangs have always felt quite desperate to me, and I feel like I can try much harder two armed.
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On the BM central rung (mine is 20/21 mm) I could add 20 kg RH and 16 LH, so 67+20+67+16=170.
+20kg for 5 seconds is impressive!
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Cheers but it wasn't for 5 secs.
It was probably around 2.
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Very obvious question, are people posting their "weak" one arm hang score? I suspect not.
I think it's very easy to see how the discrepancy arises, if - like me at the moment - you have significant weakness in one arm/hand.
Putting aside any thoughts about things like shoulder weakness/stability etc:
If L = 65kg (70kg - 5kg); R = 70kg.
Then 2*65/70 = 1.85
(2*65 remains the limiting factor irrespective of additional strength in the other arm.)
Which doesn't seem particularly mysterious.
Add in the factor of the "Y hang", then even less so.
If you have weak shoulders, then I imagine this factor would increase as you sag slightly towards a point loading rather than a "beam".
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Got round to doing this last week and, like a couple others on here, I'm relatively stronger on two arms than one.
On the beastmaker 2000 small edge, 5 second hangs, shoulder engaged, no nestling:
1 arm: bodyweight (82 kg).
2 arm: bodyweight + 85kg.
So a ratio of 2.04 ish.
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+85kg on the 2k edges... mama mia! :strongbench:
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It's best if people compute their “Bilateral Index” as that is the number used in the literature:
BI(%) = 100 * bilateral / (left side + right side) – 100.
Of course, one arm hangs are not exactly the same exercise as the two arm hang because of shoulder stability issues, slightly different levers etc.
bendavidson has BI(%) = 100*(82+85)/(82 + 82) – 100 = +1.8%, so a bilateral facilitation
Ally Smith has BI(%) = 100*(144)/(69.5 + 69.5) –100 =+ 3.6% bilateral facilitation
highrepute has BI(%) = 100*87/(2*47)–100= –7.4% so a bilateral deficit
etc...
I think we have rediscovered that:
BLD [bilateral deficit] is actually highly variable among individuals (9). Whereas the BLD most often is observed in acute studies that have used untrained subjects performing novel movements, longer term bilateral training tends to mute the inhibitory effects of the BLD
(my italics)
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On the beastmaker 2000 small edge, 5 second hangs, shoulder engaged, no nestling:
2 arm: bodyweight + 85kg.
:o :o :o
holy fucking shit
how do you distribute so much weight?! 30 kg weight vest and the rest around your waist?
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Tried this tonight on a lattice edge.
65kg body weight
1 arm, bodyweight+ 0.5kg (65.5kg total)
2 arm, bodyweight + 52kg (117kg total). Ran out of weights in the boardroom training room but was close to my limit, could maybe have done 54kg
65.5/117 = 1.78
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I'm amazed everyone is so even left and right... Or are you all just posting numbers for your strongest arm?
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I'm amazed everyone is so even left and right...
I was thinking the same. Last I checked, I could easily hang 7 kg more on my RH compared to my left.
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I'm was equal to within my smallest plate (1.25kg) when doing hangs this afternoon.
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There's a .75kg difference between my stronger and weaker arm.
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How even I am depends on the hold I use.
On the lattice rung, I take off 5kg on my left hand but 9.5kg on my right.
On the Beastmaker middle slot, it is 4.25kg on my left and 4.75kg on my right. :shrug:
I'm not sure if the difference is due to the lattice rung being more open handed and the beastmaker being more positive or whether maybe the difference is down to my shoulders.
The two lattice rungs I have used have a central pulley quite far back from the rung,making the hang a bit side on and bringing in a slight element of compression. The 3 beastmakers I have access to all have pulleys close to the board approximately in line with the outside slots, this puts you in a more front on position as you hang.
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1.5kg difference for me between left an right.
Lower slots on BM1k -
2 arm max hangs +37.5kg @83kg. 120.5kg total.
1 arm LH - 18kg
1 arm RH - 16.5kg
avg 17.25kg
120.5/65.75 = 1.83
I always though my shoulders were the reason i couldn't dead hand one arm that well but the score i get as a percentage of max suggests other wise.
Hopefully this means if i increase the two handed load to 141kg or lose 18kg i will get there as i am not a fan of one arm hangs as i often seem to tweak my neck/shoulder doing them. Hanging one arm off a bar feels brutal at my age.
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If we're talking about hanging edges, surely there is a difference between two - and one - arm hangs in the way fingers are loaded? You pull straight down on one hand - not the case with two. You're almost doing a very slight compression when hanging with two hands, which is surely going to introduce a bit of lateral force on your grip and make it harder..
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Finally got around to doing a 2 handed max.
All on a 20mm edge for 10s
One arm:
Right arm just bw
Left arm +3kg
Two arm:
Bw (57.5) +65kg / 112%
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Bw (57.5)
Fuck's sake.
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Which 20mm edge is this on peewee? Think lettuce refer to their edge as 20mm but its obv very rounded. Wonder how the discrepancy changes with hold size
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n = 10, and a convenience sample, which seems to be acceptable in sport "science"
(https://i.imgur.com/6aJitLY.png)
The stronger individuals have lower bilateral deficit (in fact bilateral facilitation), as predicted by the literature
So e.g. Stu, who has the best reported relative strength (of 10% above bodyweight) has also the highest bilateral facilitation.
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Interesting. I guess that's consistent with the reasonable expectation that a lot of two-arm dead hanging improves both fingerstrength and bilateral index (assuming people who dead hang a lot mostly do two-armed hangs).
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Yes, I agree completely.
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Which 20mm edge is this on peewee? Think lettuce refer to their edge as 20mm but its obv very rounded. Wonder how the discrepancy changes with hold size
20mm edges on the crusher matrix, they aren't as positive as the 20 on the bm 2k
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Cheers. sorry to be dense, but which is the 20 mm edge on the bm2k? middle bottom?
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hope not, because it's a lot bigger than 20mm
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Finally got around to directly comparing my one arm vs two arm max hangs and figured I'd post my results since this thread was pretty helpful for getting some perspective.
Bodyweight ~ 65kg, 64.5kg after a good shit but probably closer to 65kg so I'll use that.
One arm bm 2k bottom middle edge (22mm?): -2kg for 7 seconds with a pulley, on both arms. Not sure there's much difference left vs right, or at least it wasn't measurable with the limited weights I had.
Two arms bm 1k bottom outside edges (18mm?): +53kg for 7 seconds
Giving me a bilateral index of -6.35, apparently. The limiting factor in my two arm hangs is my arm and shoulder strength, it feels incredibly tweaky above 50kg, so I'm curious as to whether I can get closer to 0 with some general arm strengthening. Whether or not the slightly different holds affect it is something else I need to test.
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Oh yeah, 118/63 = 1.873
Forgot to add that
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Whether or not the slightly different holds affect it is something else I need to test.
I'd say those are significantly more than "slightly" different, be interested to see how much it changes tested on the same holds
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Whether or not the slightly different holds affect it is something else I need to test.
I'd say those are significantly more than "slightly" different, be interested to see how much it changes tested on the same holds
A fair statement, the 2k edge is significantly more positive. My thinking is that would would make the bilateral deficit more significant, since my one arm hangs should be stronger on the better edge - but if that's so then my relatively low index shows that it's not making a massive impact.
In training over the previous weeks I've found that one arm hangs on the 2k bottom edge and the 1k 18 mms are comparable, with a similar feeling of difficulty regardless of hold used. I reckon there might only be half a kilo in difference between the two holds tops. Something to test for sure, but my experience has been that the two feel similar in a half crimp.
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Just wanted to revive this thread - lots of interesting results here and I'd just like to clarify what good looks like with this.
Is it simply a comparison metric, i.e. to compare between climbers and thus give an indication of what each should be working on? Or is there an ideal standard to work towards?
For my own part, my numbers are:
BW - 70kg
Two arm on a 19mm edge - +35kg for 10s = 105kg total
One arm (LH slightly better than RH) on BM2k middle edge (21mm?) = -7.5kg for 10s
105/62.5 = 1.68
Only just worked this out but, surprisingly, I take it this means I am relatively better on one arm than two? Or am bang on average? Very strange if so as I've always thought I was terrible on one arm!
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You have to use the same edge for both hangs which it sounds like you haven't done?
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Does 2mm really make that much difference?
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Does 2mm really make that much difference?
Can you hang for the same length on the 8mm and 6mm micros? ;D
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Radius makes a huge difference too,and any angle. At home mid 2 on the BM 2k little edges is maximal for me (5-10s).. at the foundry it's a bit easier.. at the works last time I was there I could do repeaters.. I think unless you're using literally the same edge it's not worth bothering comparing
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Radius makes a huge difference too,and any angle.[...] I think unless you're using literally the same edge it's not worth bothering comparing
^ This! I'd like that the type of wood also makes a big difference. Birch is a lot harder to hang than pine e.g.
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Can you hang for the same length on the 8mm and 6mm micros? ;D
Haha fair enough, didn't realise it had to be quite so exact. Surely it can't be that far off though? Especially as in terms of radius the 19mm edge I'm using feels identical to the bottom middle beastmaker edge.
Anyway, regardless of those values can anyone answer these questions?
- What does good looks like with this?
- Is it simply a comparison metric, i.e. to compare between climbers and thus give an indication of what each should be working on?
- Or is there an ideal standard to work towards?
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- Remus noted from the Lettuce data that 1.7 was the average from the people they had tested. No one (as far as I'm aware) has correlated this data against max grade.
- JWI noted from the literature that stronger people were likely to have less of a bilateral deficit, backed up here to some extent by several of the v strong climbers having bilateral facilitation.
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backed up here to some extent by several of the v strong climbers having bilateral facilitation.
Could be that they train two arm hangs more than one arm.
some musings that might form an answer to bradders...
1.6 - 2.0 fairly standard
<1.6 your two arm scores are low
>2.0 your one arm scores are low
This might point towards where you should train or where you have a injury or underlying issue holding you back.
One might speculate that if you score <1.6 then you will get more benefit from training one arm because you have more unfulfilled potential there. And vise-versa. But I'm not convinced. Anyone want to speculate differently?
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Intuitively you'd imagine that the strongest spend proportionally more time training one arm than those weaker for logistical reasons... You could imagine something along the lines of the stronger lot being able to coordinate firing of more muscle fibres than the weaker, leading to better 2 arm scores, but I'm not sure if it necessarily tells us much about how to train. My instinct is that how to train will still be better determined by logistics - safety of hanging lots of weight off you, having to use holds way too big to do repeaters on one arm unless really strong, etc
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I’ve found the below equation useful when related to the observed data and activity -
Overall best grade achieved
Minus current best 1 arm hang time
Minus current best weighted load during hang
Equals current grade gett-able level.
Or
OBG - CB1 - CBW = CGGL
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I've only skim read the thread, so apologies if someone else has suggested this, but for most people there is a large difference in how much the wrist is pronated when doing 1 and 2 handed hangs. Two handed, you are generally fully pronated, one handed most people are either neutral or possibly slightly supinated. I'm guessing (I don't know) that the finger flexor mechanics are significantly different for each.