|
|
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10
71
As for Franco…. I’ll defer on if he’s the messiah or not…..
He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy with a limited repertoire
72
« Last post by Fiend on May 03, 2024, 09:06:54 pm »
7B+/E4 5c (or whatever the fucking top half of fucking WSS is as I have no fucking idea...)
That's quite cantankerous for someone who started a thread specifically to prove himself wrong about WSS 
73
« Last post by Fiend on May 03, 2024, 08:57:40 pm »
"attempt to" - which it does with reasonable success for 95%of the routes in the country. Yet everyone seems to be focus on the two tiny flat end of the bell curve. You know, the bell ends 
Very good 
74
« Last post by chriss on May 03, 2024, 08:38:58 pm »
Can someone please tell me why they are cheating shoes & who's being cheated?
Are 4mm lugs cheating because you get more grip??
75
Well, there's the obvious longer ones - Walk of Life, The Long Hope Route, Muy Caliente etc, but I'd agree that for the most part that's for very different reasons, and not really what we're talking about.
In the context of this discussion, I was more thinking of, well, pretty much every highball esque route I can think of. Think people have just been using WSS and Careless Torque etc as examples that most people have tried or done and so know something about. But if people can't agree whether Careless should be E6 or E8, or WSS should be E4 or E6, even when they use exactly the same sequence and completely agree about the physical difficulty, then I think it's hard to argue that everything is fine. And it's also not hard in that context to see how something like The Promise or various highbally things of Francos, could get such different grades from different people (and yes pads also come into the picture obviously).
Franco seems to think the E grade is so broken he's attempted to create his own grading system. Dave Mac never graded Echo Wall, which I don't know, but I'm guessing wasn't a Sharma esque snub at grades in general, but more that he felt things were all over the show and giving E11 or E12 or whatever didn't mean much until everyone was agreed on how the grading system should actually work.
I do think there's something resembling a coherent system forming finally towards the top end, and whether it sticks or not, perhaps James Pearson giving Bon Voyage E12 is a good marker on a well accessible and likely popular route to compare other things to. Although as you say with these things often not seeing a lot of repeats, it perhaps takes longer to sort out than would otherwise be the case, and so no doubt there'll be lots of adjustments down the line. How many of the current E10s and 11s are actually overall harder than old skool E9's like Face Mecca, Widdop Wall or Dangermouse? I guess we might know in a few decades.
So, perhaps I over egged it slightly above.
But, really the beef is just that as has been evidenced by this thread, various people who've been in the climbing world their entire lives still can't agree what the E grade is meant to represent. Which is pretty ridiculous.
As already mentioned above… they are pretty much irrelevant for any highball, mats, font grades etc etc As for Franco…. I’ll defer on if he’s the messiah or not….. For me it’s a misconception that E grades are broken, they work actually quite well and convey more information about the climb than most other systems… there isn’t a perfect system and I’ve yet to see any proof that anything else would work any better. With regard dangermouse, widdop wall the same thing would occur regardless of the system, some things are graded harsh some aren’t… your Gibson is balanced out be a Gresham… If you truly believe people who have been climbing their whole lives would suddenly agree on the grade of things if another system was used, I think your smoking crack!!
76
« Last post by Nemo on May 03, 2024, 06:39:43 pm »
Well, there's the obvious longer ones - Walk of Life, The Long Hope Route, Muy Caliente etc, but I'd agree that for the most part that's for very different reasons, and not really what we're talking about.
In the context of this discussion, I was more thinking of, well, pretty much every highball esque route I can think of. Think people have just been using WSS and Careless Torque etc as examples that most people have tried or done and so know something about. But if people can't agree whether Careless should be E6 or E8, or WSS should be E4 or E6, even when they use exactly the same sequence and completely agree about the physical difficulty, then I think it's hard to argue that everything is fine. And it's also not hard in that context to see how something like The Promise or various highbally things of Francos, could get such different grades from different people (and yes pads also come into the picture obviously).
Franco seems to think the E grade is so broken he's attempted to create his own grading system. Dave Mac never graded Echo Wall, which I don't know, but I'm guessing wasn't a Sharma esque snub at grades in general, but more that he felt things were all over the show and giving E11 or E12 or whatever didn't mean much until everyone was agreed on how the grading system should actually work.
I do think there's something resembling a coherent system forming finally towards the top end, and whether it sticks or not, perhaps James Pearson giving Bon Voyage E12 is a good marker on a well accessible and likely popular route to compare other things to. Although as you say with these things often not seeing a lot of repeats, it perhaps takes longer to sort out than would otherwise be the case, and so no doubt there'll be lots of adjustments down the line. How many of the current E10s and 11s are actually overall harder than old skool E9's like Face Mecca, Widdop Wall or Dangermouse? I guess we might know in a few decades.
So, perhaps I over egged it slightly above.
But, really the beef is just that as has been evidenced by this thread, various people who've been in the climbing world their entire lives still can't agree what the E grade is meant to represent. Which is pretty ridiculous.
77
« Last post by remus on May 03, 2024, 06:16:25 pm »
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/opencast_arch-31932/I tried linking it to RAD but doesn't seem to like it for whatever reason so I've just copied the access info across for the moment.
78
« Last post by Nike Air on May 03, 2024, 05:30:24 pm »
These are a size medium
79
With sport routes and boulders, typically significant downgrades only happen when people find better beta.
The vast majority of people (at least those who travel to at least some extent) climbing at that level tend to roughly agree about grades when they've used the same beta (with obvious exceptions for height dependent stuff etc).
With UK trad routes people can climb exactly the same sequence and yet come up with a completely different grade as they are using a completely different grading system. That's not sensible. Sure sponsors, public opinion, beta and all the rest of it are always going to play a part, but sorting out what the numbers are actually meant to represent is a pre requisite to even bothering trying to assign something a number.
Have you got some examples of these vastly differing grades given to things in uk trad at the top end, or the bottom end for that matter?? Beyond james Pearson who has himself admitted he got it extremely wrong, I can’t come up with anything that’s been savagely downgraded/up graded you talked of E8-E11 up thread…. From my knowledge just like bouldering and sport climbing, there aren’t many huge variations, even taking into account the ease of getting extra publicity by over inflating trad grades (due to less likelihood of repeats) this is normal with any system.. like I said it’s not science.
80
« Last post by Andy B on May 03, 2024, 04:56:47 pm »
Finally got over here this eve, good spot. Second Chris' comments on Peterloo, quality problem and nice to do some burly moves. Worth taking a kneepad or two for anyone who's thinking of going.
Do you think it'll be ok to add to UKC or is the access a bit too sensitive?
Hiya Remus, yeah, go for it. Just make sure you include all the access stuff. Glad you enjoyed it.
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10
|
|
Recent Posts
