UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => equipment => Topic started by: petejh on April 28, 2015, 09:30:26 pm
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Anybody tried these yet? Thinking of trying a pair of futura's but heard the Genius should be available shortly.
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Anybody tried these yet? Thinking of trying a pair of futura's but heard the Genius should be available shortly.
They've got them at some of the shops in Font - they look very good (caveat: I am a Speedster fan). I'd consider them preferable to the Futura's because I hate the design of the Futura / Solution strap, which always seems to wear through / break too early.
One of the locals here that I spoke to was raving about them too.
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Am I wrong in thinking them a lace up futura?
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Am I wrong in thinking them a lace up futura?
No, that's pretty much what they are
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heard the Genius should be available shortly.
Already seen them in shops over here.
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Anybody tried these yet? Thinking of trying a pair of futura's but heard the Genius should be available shortly.
They've got them at some of the shops in Font - they look very good (caveat: I am a Speedster fan). I'd consider them preferable to the Futura's because I hate the design of the Futura / Solution strap, which always seems to wear through / break too early.
One of the locals here that I spoke to was raving about them too.
i love the testa rossa's (testa's rossa?) but generally boulder in solutions because the laces on the testarossas break if you drag the top of your foot along the wall. not to mention toe hooks or cams. the solutions at least give me a few tries and the chance to repair with glue.
i tried on the genius in paris, and apart from them being very comfy, the laces looks even thinner than on the testarossas. and as i'm not climbing many routes at the moment, i left them in the store.
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i love the testa rossa's (testa's rossa?)
testirossi?
Nibs?
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i love the testa rossa's (testa's rossa?)
testirossi?
Nibs?
Multi-testarossi?
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Ahahahahahah!
It's Testarossa, a name that comes from a series of Ferrari cars, as you all know, dating back to the 1957 model. Here is a fine example. Or two?
(http://www.0-60mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/oz_gutsche_testarossa-21.jpg)
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We know that already. The altogether boring question, though, is what is the grammatically correct plural?
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/12/article-0-195DD28E00000578-40_634x424.jpg)
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We know that already. The altogether boring question, though, is what is the grammatically correct plural?
Ah, sorry about the misunderstanding.
To be honest, the plural of composite nouns is a quite tricky subject in Italian...
In this case though, given that it acts as a proper name, I'd say that it doesn't change in plural.
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If these are just a lace-up futura then the only reason you'd choose them over the futura is for the adjust-ability.
Have you used the 'no edge' shoes before? If not, I'd suggest the speedster as a good introduction. The speedster is stiffer than the futura (so i'm told) which would perhaps mean that you could use them on quite vertical climbing too. Plus, they're cheaper so you won't have lost out on as much money if you don't get on with them (that was my logic, think I got them for £65-70 in the end).
What sort of terrain were you thinking of using them on? They are excellent for smearing straight out of the box and I've barely used another shoe on grit this year. Once things get quite overhanging I prefer a proper edge for getting into the back of crimps (the toebox is quite bulky and rounded and doesn't get into the back of small holds as well as something like a dragon). I'd imagine they'd be fine on large holds though.
I certainly keep them in my climbing back most of the time now but tend to use something a bit stiffer and with an edge for limestone.
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Pete some more pics of them from your favourite J Star, the heel box looks weird!
http://www.jstarinorbit.com/p/gear-review.html
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The next model to be released after the Genius will be called the Fuckwit, especially for those who are technically inept in footwork. Basically a pair of trainers.
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What sort of terrain were you thinking of using them on? They are excellent for smearing straight out of the box and I've barely used another shoe on grit this year. Once things get quite overhanging I prefer a proper edge for getting into the back of crimps (the toebox is quite bulky and rounded and doesn't get into the back of small holds as well as something like a dragon). I'd imagine they'd be fine on large holds though.
I certainly keep them in my climbing back most of the time now but tend to use something a bit stiffer and with an edge for limestone.
I think the futuras are really good on the grit and in the wall. I think the heels are pretty good for compression climbing. If you have never had 'no edge' technology they are a bit weird to start off with. They are also well comfy even when super tight!
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Surely the fuckwit would be designed for crack climbers..?
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Have you used the 'no edge' shoes before? If not, I'd suggest the speedster as a good introduction. The speedster is stiffer than the futura (so i'm told) which would perhaps mean that you could use them on quite vertical climbing too.
quite the opposite.
futura stiffer than speedster, and better allrounder for most people.
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That's interesting to know, thanks. Someone who has both shoes told me that the Speedster was stiffer. The Futura is built on a slightly less aggressive last than the Speedster, so hopefully will be a bit more comfortable. I'll have to try some Futuras on next time I'm somewhere that stocks them.
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concerning the genius, just by looking at them i suspect that it puts your big toe in a slightly more bent position compared to the futura.
can people who have tried both confirm?
(ah this is also the second big difference between speedsters and futuras. speedsters have a higher volume in the front, your toes get more bent and they have a more rounded tip. Absolutely horrible in pockets. The futuras are narrower/flatter toes, pointier, and work decently in pockets)
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Do you know how the futura sizes compared to the speedster? Thanks.
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That's interesting to know, thanks. Someone who has both shoes told me that the Speedster was stiffer. The Futura is built on a slightly less aggressive last than the Speedster, so hopefully will be a bit more comfortable. I'll have to try some Futuras on next time I'm somewhere that stocks them.
well, the speedster has a more agressive last and tensioning for sure, but it's also more flexible - the futura has some kind of midsole, the speedster doesn't.
for me, having had both shoes, it translates in the speedster being much more "one trick pony" than the futura. Wonderful shoe at its own things: font slabs, indoor, tufas and roof/cave "hooks and scums everywhere" extravaganza. But would never consider it as a main shoe/allrounder.
The futura has the same character, but in my experience it is much less shit where the speedster didn't shine (pockets, board-like steep climbs with small positive holds).
oh, in futuras i'm half size up from speedsters.
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Cool, just ordered some futuras, gotta be worth a punt as I love the Speedster and the only thing stopping me from using them on the lime is that they are quite soft (only £80 on trekinn).
I ordered the same size as my Speedsters though as I didn't get my Speedster's obscenely tight.
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I'm thinking of trying the Genius for limestone UK and abroad, and all-round trad. So a pretty mixed bag! Was wondering how they'd be for Melanchollie - slightly overhanging tiny holds.
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Got a pair last week and really looking forward to trying them.
But "Genius" has got to be the most retarded name for a shoe in the entire history of climbing!
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From a purely 'no edge' perspective, I don't think they perform well on tiny sharp edges like a shoe with an edge would. If the edges are small and slopey then they perform well, probably better than a normal shoe.
I'd sometimes struggle on those moves where you're nearly full extension and really pointing your toes and only the very tip of your toes are keep the tension, whereas an edged shoe helps a bit in this situation. Would be interested to hear what other opinions are though, especially as Ondra onsighted lots of hard stuff at Raven Tor in his Speedsters.
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Can anyone with experience of the harder to get Sportiva's, guess / say which would be best for RPs on UK sport (Malham mainly) - nuthin' smears and tiny spikes etc - Testerossa, Solution, or Genius? I've been using Miura VSs for a few years and generally happy with them but getting slightly annoyed with their short window of goodness for certain routes - I have several pairs that are slightly too spongy at the toe-tips for a particular route but otherwise in decent condition! Wondering if there's anything better out there.
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In exactly the same position - miura VS's for the last 5 or so years and happy with them during the 'window', until they go a bit sloppy and become warm-up / trad shoes.
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Using Ondra as a reference is completely useless, given that he does something completely different from what we do.
I've had a pair od Speedsters and I have to say that despite being gifted (the shoes, not me ;)) and looking super cool, they are a terrible shoe.
Empty heel. No tension under the foot arch (I resolved to put a velcro loop around to keep them in place). Plus, they were super painful (pushing down hard on edges or even smears, you were pushing basically with your toenails). And finally, when pushing down they used to suddenly slip off due to the rounded point.
I am becoming a sadder bastard by the day, but I think that these new Genius are just another glittery method to get money from climbers. Now, where are my EB's and Mariacher? ;) ;) ;)
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I've never used the testarossa but have used the Futura and Solution.
You'll find the solution pretty similar to the Miuras. A bit less good for extreme edging, better for toe-hooks and smears. The heel is different; some love it, some hate it. It won't last any better than the Miuras.
I loved Futuras on vert limestone like Malham or the Tor, especially if bought small. They are much softer but they feel very precise and edge very well *most* of the time. However, not everyone gets on with them and because the toe box is rounder, you occasionally find a slot or pocket in which they are simply awful. In terms of longevity they seem to go on forever, unless you tear the narrow rubber strip on the toe, so beware if you're a foot-dragger.
I have high hopes for the Genius as I've heard they are stiffer than the Futura which suits me. I'm waiting for a pair.
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Cool good info Stu (i.e. I'd like a pair so that's what I wanted to hear versus ignoring what I didn't..)
I'm wondering if differences in peoples' natural 'big toe strength' comes into play with no-edge shoes..
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I'd sometimes struggle on those moves where you're nearly full extension and really pointing your toes and only the very tip of your toes are keep the tension, whereas an edged shoe helps a bit in this situation. Would be interested to hear what other opinions are though
ironically, for me that's one kind of thing they do ok to exceptionally well on certain kinds of footholds (tiny "smedges", and small protrusions), inclinations (near vertical) and when used correctly (really frontpointing with that portion of rubber that comes up towards the toe hooking part, heels fairly high)
the real difference in my case come from the kind of foothold: if it has a sharp, straight, regular edge, and it is wider than two or three centimeters, a traditionally edged shoe works better.
demo here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw6IJH_TSDg
the foothold where i slip off once is arguably the best of the whole boulder problem, and would have felt like a ledge in anasazis, or any other edging shoe. in futuras it was tricky to gradually put pressure on it until it sticked.
Yet the two footholds before it are very marginal, and especially the second (left foot) felt totally useless in pinks.
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Cheers Stu, might try on a pair of the Futuras and hope the Genius hits some local shops - sounds like the Solutions would just be a snazzier way to fail, rather than possibly game-changing.
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ironically, for me that's one kind of thing they do ok to exceptionally well on certain kinds of footholds (tiny "smedges", and small protrusions), inclinations (near vertical) and when used correctly (really frontpointing with that portion of rubber that comes up towards the toe hooking part, heels fairly high)
Yeh, I meant steep limestone (roofs) or dead vertical/slightly overhanging on tiny sharp crimps. I find these are great on any sandstone, even small features as they mould so well. Most of the time I grippy rock I don't really look for a foothold, just press in wherever is the best position for me feet.
I too struggle with the Muira VS. They just turn into smearing shoes with no support after not very long. Fingers crossed I get on better with the futura.
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Let us know how the Futuras compare - what sizing have you opted for, same as the Miura VS?
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Will do. I've ordered futuras the same size as my speedsters, which is 1 size down from what I wear muiras. That being said, I never used to wear my muiras excessively tight as I found the toebox quite high volume, there was lots of room for my toes to curl up into. The speedster toebox is very high volume too so hopefully the futuras fit similarly.
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In exactly the same position - miura VS's for the last 5 or so years and happy with them during the 'window', until they go a bit sloppy and become warm-up / trad shoes.
Do you know where the miura VS's end up stretching out for you? I found that many of my shoes blow out on the outer side of the toe-box. If this is the case, then solutions tend to stay "good" a bit longer, because of the rubber toe hooking pad they keep their structure a bit better.
I didn't have great luck with speedsters or futuras. However, I think if you have patience they could work really well on rounded edges. For soft shoes I found the pythons to be a nice compromise, they aren't lined, but still have an edge.
The testarossa heels always seem kind of baggy. I wonder how the Genius will compare. The front half of the testarossas have always felt awesome, great edging while still soft.
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I didn't have great luck with speedsters or futuras. However, I think if you have patience they could work really well on rounded edges. For soft shoes I found the pythons to be a nice compromise, they aren't lined, but still have an edge.
I'm with you - I think Pythons are the best shoes Sportiva makes. That said, I've just bought a pair of Instinct VSs, so it will be interesting to see how they compare.
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In exactly the same position - miura VS's for the last 5 or so years and happy with them during the 'window', until they go a bit sloppy and become warm-up / trad shoes.
Do you know where the miura VS's end up stretching out for you? I found that many of my shoes blow out on the outer side of the toe-box. If this is the case, then solutions tend to stay "good" a bit longer, because of the rubber toe hooking pad they keep their structure a bit better.
For me, the Miura VSs don't so much stretch or bag out, rather lose stiffness at the toe-tips - as though there isn't enough rubber where the rand meets the sole. I remember the Katanas infamously used to develop holes in the same location.
I only notice it on moves where I am smearing at full leg extension on distant spikes and nubbins. Unfortunately, my method for the route I have been working for the last year (and probably will for most of this year) has a few of these moves towards the end of the crux sequence. More of a logistical problem than anything - ensuring I have always have pair of worn-in-but-not-worn-out VSs ready. So, would be interested in any shoe that is as good as worn-in VSs, but has a longer performance window.
Btw what's the sizing like on Pythons compared to Miuras, do they stretch much. I loved the Venoms - recall that you had to get them in ludicrously small sizes though.
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Btw what's the sizing like on Pythons compared to Miuras, do they stretch much. I loved the Venoms - recall that you had to get them in ludicrously small sizes though.
These days I wear the Pythons in the same size as Miura VSs, but I've worn them a full size smaller in the past.
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I've been wearing the futura for a while and have mainly just been using them indoors as after about 45 mins of wearing them, the arch of my foot (towards the sole) really starts to ache.
I've assumed this is because they are very soft and so don't provide much support to my foot. Does this happen to anyone else?
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Just realised that it's pay day, now getting a terrible urge to buy some Futuras - I might have lots of pairs of shoes "active" (VSs for routes, Anasazis for warming up and grit, Dragons for very steep) but the idea of something completely different really appeals.
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I've been wearing the futura for a while and have mainly just been using them indoors as after about 45 mins of wearing them, the arch of my foot (towards the sole) really starts to ache.
I don't get this. My Futuras do become unbearably painful if my toenails are too long, but are very comfy if I keep my toenails short.
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Btw what's the sizing like on Pythons compared to Miuras, do they stretch much. I loved the Venoms - recall that you had to get them in ludicrously small sizes though.
These days I wear the Pythons in the same size as Miura VSs, but I've worn them a full size smaller in the past.
I go half a size down on Pythons vs Miura Laces (no epxerience with Miura Velcros)
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Btw what's the sizing like on Pythons compared to Miuras, do they stretch much. I loved the Venoms - recall that you had to get them in ludicrously small sizes though.
I wear a 41 in Miura VS and 39.5 in the Python. The pythons are not lined so they do stretch a bit.
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I'd just like to point out that I started the three hottest topics on ukb - shoes, buy-to-let and JB's imminent metabolic disease.
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I'd just like to point out that I started the three hottest topics on ukb - shoes, buy-to-let and JB's imminent metabolic disease.
Genius!
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You're like the anti-Sloper!
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I'd just like to point out that I started the three hottest topics on ukb - shoes, buy-to-let and JB's imminent metabolic disease.
Maybe we should combine them, "Due to buy-to-let, my rent is very expensive and makes healthy eating unaffordable, the resultant metabolic disease has caused my toe-nails to fall off, will I still be able to wear no-edge shoes?"
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Pythons are less supportive and stretch more than futuras, I quite liked them but the futuras are much better imo. I'm on my third or fourth pair now and can't remember when I last felt a different shoe would help. However everyone I know who uses them took a while to get used to them - guess this is the no edge thing - but even the most resistant have come round. Obv only if they're the right shape for you - the toe box is def lower volume than Solutions. last ages given rubber thickness too. the straps are stupidly thin but since they've started coating the eyelets (only first gen didn't have this afaik) they seem to last ok. Only reason to get the genius would seem to be more variety of fit offered by lace up.
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Well the Futuras have just arrived. Firstly, I can confirm that they are not noticeably stiffer than the Speedsters (they actually feel softer out of the box if anything, which is what someone I know told me), so a bit of a fail on that part.
Having said that, I don't mind having what is essentially a pair of Speedsters with a more secure heel as they were my main shoe on grit this year but if you're looking for something fundamentally different to the speedster then perhaps the Genius is it? The person I know with the Genius' said that they size up half size smaller than the futuras and feel very similar to the futuras with perhaps a tiny bit more toepower. I get the feeling that these are all going to be pretty soft shoes.
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Also, regarding size differences, the futuras feel a touch tighter than the speedsters (I sized them the same) and whilst the heel will probably be a tad more secure than the speedsters, the fit of the heel isn't as good on the futuras (more dead space). Gut feeling is that the speedster is a better shoe but I'll hold back my official stance until I've tried these out for a while.
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Got a pair of Genius's on Saturday and wore them at LPT on Sunday. Amazing! Felt extremely sensitive, like the big toe was unenclosed. Don't think I've ever worn a pair of shoes this sensitive. Got them in 39, smallest shoes I've ever worn. Street shoe 42, my Miura VS's are tight at 39.5. Think I'm a fan..
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Glad to hear it. I cannot get them in my size at the moment, so will have to live vicariously through your inevitable redpoint
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Given you only managed 4 moves on Sunday, it seems a bit early to judge... ;-)
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Ha! Yeah I know, it wasn't the most comprehensive test run. (some more moves during the warm-up). Cheers Stu, but might bump into you at Malham if this skin tear can't take the punishment..
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Can't believe noone's mentioned that they look absolutely gash. Worse than solutions! For that reason, I will be sticking with muira laces.
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Can't believe noone's mentioned that they look absolutely gash. Worse than solutions! For that reason, I will be sticking with muira laces.
I mistook them for a hotdog covered with mustard in a photo on twitter the first time I saw a pair. Not a look I tend to go for in my rock shoes. Having said that I wear Boreals so I am probably not one to pass comment.
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Ha! Yeah I know, it wasn't the most comprehensive test run. (some more moves during the warm-up). Cheers Stu, but might bump into you at Malham if this skin tear can't take the punishment..
How stiff are they then (from a Blanco fan)? I couldn't imagine wanting to climb any of the Malham routes in Futura's as Stu suggests; I thought they were terrible for anything other than pointing your foot at a smeary blob (admittedly only tested indoors), on edges they just didn't perform at all.
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Ha! Yeah I know, it wasn't the most comprehensive test run. (some more moves during the warm-up). Cheers Stu, but might bump into you at Malham if this skin tear can't take the punishment..
How stiff are they then (from a Blanco fan)? I couldn't imagine wanting to climb any of the Malham routes in Futura's as Stu suggests; I thought they were terrible for anything other than pointing your foot at a smeary blob (admittedly only tested indoors), on edges they just didn't perform at all.
I've also only climbed in Futuras inside, but i thought they'd feel great on uk limestone. I do favour sensitive flexible boots worn tight though, and never really liked blancos anyway. All scarpas, for example, feel really wooden to climb in to me.
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How stiff are they then (from a Blanco fan)? I couldn't imagine wanting to climb any of the Malham routes in Futura's as Stu suggests; I thought they were terrible for anything other than pointing your foot at a smeary blob (admittedly only tested indoors), on edges they just didn't perform at all.
Yeah they're not stiff at all but very down-turned and I think/hope they'll keep their down-turned shape quite well due to the yellow rubber band thingy PPP. But I've never enjoyed climbing in stiff shoes - still got a pair of unbroken-in Blancos that are about 4 years old. You're probably not going to like them if you like clogs.
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Gresh and James Pearson promoting the Genius
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG0rTQr2Wes
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/la-sportiva-genius-rock-shoes
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Anyone used the new Scarpa Furias? I wonder where they sit alongside the Instinct VS and Booster S? Hopefully somewhere in the middle. I like the comfort of the Booster S but they're too soft for me for steep bouldering.
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Not used them but Newman has, he said they're softer than the Booster S IIRC.
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Urrghh. How can they be softer :shrug:
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I saw a video where someone just rolled one up in their hand, ridiculously soft, just a rubber
jonny sock
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I still can't see how the no edge sole could perform better than a traditional one on steep terrain, on which you often have to hook the foothold to keep you in and on which the angles are crucial.
I've experimented the Speedster on steep gym walls and on my board and they were a notch worse than Solutions, Dragons, etc.
That said, and given that I'm heading to the Dolomites this afternoon, staying at a friend's house 15 minutes from LaSportiva factory, I'll probably be back on Monday with at least two pairs of them.
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I think that's right Nibs,
for that ultra-steep, toeing in kind of move, no-edge shoes will be slightly worse. Worse also in slots or pockets as the toe box is rounder.
But in my experience better almost everywhere else.
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I picked up a pair of the furias at a demo at the works and they were very soft, probably softer than teams. They seemed like a waste of time to be honest. Isn't the instinct lace-up a bit softer than the instinct vs?
The no-edge shoes are by far the best shoes for smearing and face climbing on indoor style holes regardless of size. I don't think I'll be using mine again until I'm back on grit/sandstone though. I've been really impressed by the Scarpa Instinct VS and I find myself reaching for my dragons less and less.
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Yes Instinct lace slightly softer than VS hence I love them (on last pair)
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Yes Instinct lace slightly softer than VS hence I love them (on last pair)
Ah thought so. You know they are still readily available if you use one of the foreign shops?
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Yeah, Scarpa still make them AFAIK, it's just that Mountain Boot Co don't import them anymore (apparently not enough people buy lace-ups to make it worth importing many of them).
For me the Booster S is ace on steep Euro style sport and most bouldering but instinct lace is still king on vert edges
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Don't buy the Sportiva Genius everyone, they're rubbish. I mean no edges, c'mon ::) you know better than that and you don't need to try a pair of these out to know that climbing shoes need good edges ....
Nothing to see move along :whistle:
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Don't buy the Sportiva Genius everyone, they're rubbish. I mean no edges, c'mon ::) you know better than that and you don't need to try a pair of these out to know that climbing shoes need good edges ....
Nothing to see move along :whistle:
I heard that they make 8b feel like VD. ;)
That's very difficult, as opposed to venereal disease, incidentally. Nothing worse than an ambiguous acronym.
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Yes Instinct lace slightly softer than VS hence I love them (on last pair)
Ah thought so. You know they are still readily available if you use one of the foreign shops?
I find the instinct lace much stiffer than the vs, I currently have pair of both
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Might be a size thing? I've had 4 pairs of size 43 laces, which have all been softer than the 44 VS. Smaller shoes tend to feel stiffer overall of course.
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The Instinct lace in Grip 2 are softer, but the XS Edge rubber makes them about the same as the VS in my experience.
I'd get the Furia for grit if they'd used the Instinct last but they used the more cramped Booster last which I'm not so keen on.....if I'm going to buy something which is a bit of a compromise I can do it a lot cheaper. When my old pink resoles die I'll probably just end up with new pinks, though they do look stiffer which is not quite what I'm after so would be interested ion people's views
ie how stiff are the new pinks?
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ie how stiff are the new pinks?
Not very. Stiffer than the green, less stiff than the whites. I like them.
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Sounds good, thanks.
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:blink:
I'm starting to yearn for a simpler time when Boreal Fires was the only choice
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Me too. Schooldays were great, weren't they? ;)
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It strikes me as a bit odd that you'd be yearning for Fires after your recent misadventure!
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;D
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Finally got around to putting on these little beasties. A bit painful during the current wearing-in sessions.
Fit so snugly that when I take them off it goes pff like a fridge door opening (more so on the right). I tie the laces loose so use them as a slipper because when they are on there is no way they are coming off while climbing, even through ten heal :devil-smiley: hooks.
£10 cheaper than the blue ones, which were so far out of line with other top of the range shoes that it would have been unethical to encourage La Sportiva in that direction, and the novelty velcro clasp thingy was crap.
IMO a shoe for bouldering where you need to find something to push against (soft, feel) rather than pushing hard on something you have already found (power, stiffness).
Best of the three no edges shoes by La Sportiva to date by a large margin, which is what you would expect, I suppose.
Colour combo is all a bit boy racer and the name is terrible, but it's probably the best climbing shoe ever made.
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They have these at the epictv shop for £80 which is a bit of a bargain.
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Now the earlier adopters have worn-in their Geniuses (Genii?), what's the verdict? I love my Futuras and was thinking treating myself to a pair of their lace-up cousins. How do they compare? What is the sizing like? I am 42.5 in Futuras - initially agony, probably worth it in retrospect - though for me to get Geniuses in a similar fit whey would have to be as stretchy. 43 in Miuras of both types and Katanas.
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Mine are a huge disappointment. I have a slightly dodgy big toe which gets sore in some shoes. The toe box is very steep on the genius which makes them unbearable for me.
It's a shame because the RF feels amazing but I can barely stand on the LF. Back to futuras for me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Sad to hear you don't get on with them; although, by the sound of it, it's not so much that the shoes have let you down, but your own treacherous left big toe? What's the sizing like compared to Futuras?
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Genius on the right, futura on the left - sorted.
http://eveningsends.com/climbing/5-ways-to-look-like-you-climb-hard/ (http://eveningsends.com/climbing/5-ways-to-look-like-you-climb-hard/)
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I've heard that the rubber on the Geniuses is more liable to wear out quickly than on the solutions or other shoes, is this true? Need to get new shoes, will probably just go with the solutions again because I can't be bothered getting shoes that wear out quickly and apparently can't be resoled due to their strange rubber makeup.
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Now the earlier adopters have worn-in their Geniuses (Genii?), what's the verdict? I love my Futuras and was thinking treating myself to a pair of their lace-up cousins. How do they compare? What is the sizing like? I am 42.5 in Futuras - initially agony, probably worth it in retrospect - though for me to get Geniuses in a similar fit whey would have to be as stretchy. 43 in Miuras of both types and Katanas.
I still love mine - best shoes for sport climbing I've ever owned. Like them so much I bought a second pair within a few weeks. I currently also own Muira VS's, Muira lace-ups, 5.10 whites.
Whites - slate, specific thin slabby sport and some trad,
Muira lace-ups - trad and warming up on sport
Muira VS's - stopped wearing them, redundant.
Genius - sport (and bouldering when I get around to doing some)
No issue with the toe rubber wearing out - I think the opposite could be true i.e. the toe rubber will last longer than a normal shoe. That's based on a couple of reviews plus mine aren't showing any sign of accelerated wearing on the the toe.
I'm size 40/40.5 in Muira VS/Muira lace-ups; size 39 in Genius.
Stu you could look all specialised and cool by wearing two different shoes..
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Haha. I'm already doing this, but I need a very specific shoe on my RF at the moment, and it isn't a genius. I wish my right toe was poorly so I could wear the genius on the LF.
Pano - my own personal experience of Futuras has been the rubber lasts longer as there's no edge to wear down. This is true unless you're a toe dragger, in which case the narrow strip of rubber at the toe might get peeled away.
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My final pair of planks are starting to break in and it appears they'll be done before the Verdon is commercially available.
Pete, Stu, how do these no-edge shoes actually perform on small edges (I'm thinking Kilnsey LHS, Malham LHS and Upper Tier etc.)?
It looks to me from your break-down that for anything edgey you'e defaulting to something else?
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I'd be interested to know how people manage it, if they actually do use these for micro edging as perhaps I'm using the shoes wrong. I wear my futuras and speedsters a lot but exclusively indoors (where most of the holds, even the crimps are rounded for comfort) and on the higher friction, rounded rock types like sandstone (incl. grit).
I tried them at the tor as I assumed that they're be good on all those rounded, polished edges but had no luck with them and much preferred a stiffer shoe. As I've said before though, there's various videos of Ondra onsighting at Malham and the tor wearing his speedsters. I know he's really strong but I don't think he'd put himself at a disadvantage by wearing a shoe that isn't appropriate.
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I've been using my Futuras at Kilnsey all year and found them really good. I became a "believer" when my Miura VSs kept slipping from a tiny downward sloping foothold on a route I had been working (only around a 10-20% success rate when trying it from hanging off a bolt - pretty much total failure if having to climb into the move via a big rock-over). Straight from the box the Futuras kept on the foothold during the move with near 100% success rate (and it wasn't just a matter of getting the knack as swapped back to VSs few times and resumed failing).
Took them to Malham too - to work Zoolook and didn't have any problems attributable to them (just pitiful early season stamina!). Better than my VSs on slopey smears. With small but more positive edges, they look like they should not work (toe just seems too "blunt") but always seem to stick - maybe have to push more with the feet.
Re sizing, so the consensus is go down at least 0.5 size from Futuras / 1 size down from Miuras?
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My final pair of planks are starting to break in and it appears they'll be done before the Verdon is commercially available.
Pete, Stu, how do these no-edge shoes actually perform on small edges (I'm thinking Kilnsey LHS, Malham LHS and Upper Tier etc.)?
It looks to me from your break-down that for anything edgey you'e defaulting to something else?
I guess? I don't think too hard about it - if you have a proper edging shoe (whites / new verdons.. etc.) and a dedicated sport shoe (genius, futura or whatever) then you're covered aren't you. So why worry if the genius can be excellent on really edgy stuff?
On the only hard route I climbed at Malham (oak) I found them significantly more reliable on footholds then my Muira VS's or whites. Probably not a typical Malham route..
I haven't climbed on Pen Trwyn recently but I'd choose the genius on Mayfair wall stuff. Slate, no.
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On the only hard route I climbed at Malham (oak) I found them significantly more reliable on footholds then my Muira VS's or whites. Probably not a typical Malham route..
careful Pete, you'll have Simon buying some...
Paul, i wear anasazi velcros on basically everything, they seem to work generally fine. Although narrow footed people don't like them I believe?
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On the only hard route I climbed at Malham (oak) I found them significantly more reliable on footholds then my Muira VS's or whites. Probably not a typical Malham route..
careful Pete, you'll have Simon buying some...
I've had a look at Rob Greenwoods pair and not convinced. He later said in his review "Whilst it was good on steeper ground when it came down to more vertical/slabby terrain on certain types of rock (particularly when small footholds were involved) the Genius were not ideal, being that their soft/lightweight nature simply don't have enough support to make that sort of ground feel any easier. Were you to attempt a route on the slate wearing a pair of Genius you would probably need your toes operating on afterwards!!!"
Been inspecting and discussing the Verdons with Steve. They have a very rounded sole - not ideal for edging. Steve had a go at sanding his down to see whether that would sort them out but with not great results. Also they seem to have softened really quick.
Whites are the ultimate. I dont understand why people cant appreciate what you can do with them. Pearls before swine.
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I got some futuras the other day, and I am liking them quite a bit, although I feel that they are outperformed by solutions on very small incut footers. On anything slopey though, they are much better. I might get some solutions of the same size some time when I scrape together the money, but the geniuses are definitely very good, it's also lovely to wear a shoe that actually breaks in very quickly, and is already fairly comfortable to wear, while also being small.
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My final pair of planks are starting to break in and it appears they'll be done before the Verdon is commercially available.
These are now on pre-order at Outisde for a not too outrageous starting price (39.6FAs) should anyone feel like taking a punt on the 5.10 shoe sizing lottery.
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I'd be interested to know how people manage it, if they actually do use these for micro edging as perhaps I'm using the shoes wrong
1) i'm wearing my futuras very tight. 38.5 for a 42.5/43 street size.
2) they seem to work best when i "frontpoint" with that bit of sole that overlaps the big toe. It works but it does require a lot of foot strenght and it is painful.
3) what described above works really good on things that are in between microedging and smearing, especially on inclinations near vertical. A few foot placements in this ballpark might even be impossible with other shoes.
However, on well defined, small sharp edges a traditional shoe like a white will work better: the futura will hold but feel as if it might roll off.
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What size are people wearing these compared to futuras? Or worst case Muira VS?
Seeing as I wear my futuras for 95% of my climbing once route season ends, I think I can justify getting a pair whilst they are cheap. I wouldn't mind having the adjustability of laces too, I wont lose any sleep over having to tie laces. Cheers
**** EDIT ****
Nevermind, just bought them in a 41.5 which is what I wear in futuras. Will update this if the size is wrong.
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Size was wrong... would probably go up 0.5 - 1 size. I might just return them though.
Has anyone tried wearing these no edge shoes fairly large? Currently I can wear them for about 5 minutes climbing before I have to take them off. I had my first dose of euro sport last week and I preferred futuras to other shoes but I couldn't wear them long enough for the routes where you're on them for like 15-20 minutes (or longer). They're quite soft shoes, so wonder if they'll be a floppy mess in a larger size. I'm finding it harder and harder to enjoy climbing in traditional rock shoes after getting used to these...
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Totally the opposite of my experience. I tried a pair half a size smaller than my Futuras and they were unusably cavernous. Very weird... The toe box felt like it was much higher volume than the Futuras to me, it's certainly quite a different shape.
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Agree that the futura is a high volume toebox, that's why I get on better with them. I have very long toes and squeeze into a high volume toebox nicely.
Normal disclaimers regarding everyone's feet being different apply. My feet are low volume, wide at the front, narrow heel and long toes (slight Morton's toe).
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I bought the same size as my solutions and they fit fine...
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Didn't think it was worth starting a new thread for, but has anyone tried to sand down the heel on a solution? I reckon there'd be enough rubber to take the "tennis ball" felling away with a belt sander or something. Is this a terrible idea?
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depends on what you normally use heel hooks for, grit sloper heel hooks then maybe but if you want to heel hook anything with an edge on it then I find the extra rubber helps to grip better.
I recon its a terrible idea TBH
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I think the solution heel has a mold of some kind. not sure sanding would change that.