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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: edshakey on April 13, 2022, 07:34:27 pm

Title: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 13, 2022, 07:34:27 pm
Another casual 8B flash for Mr Bosi

https://youtu.be/rVvYDZ5sHAg

This was a few weeks back, wonder what other stuff he's been strolling up. Anyone got any news?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 18, 2022, 04:10:25 pm
Will Bosi has flashed a problem called Charizard, a Martin Stranik number that gets 8B+!

Second Brit to flash the grade after Ned I think?

https://youtu.be/2sQKM7CfcKE
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Adam Lincoln on April 18, 2022, 06:08:12 pm
Haha what a feeling with Ondra cheering you on!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on April 18, 2022, 06:16:47 pm
Mega! Surely a Bosiwad thread is deserved at this point?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 18, 2022, 06:45:57 pm
Will Bosi has flashed a problem called Charizard, a Martin Stranik number that gets 8B+!

Second Brit to flash the grade after Ned I think?

https://youtu.be/2sQKM7CfcKE

Yep 2nd Brit sounds right - not many people in the world either tbh! Last I remember it was Ondra, Webb, Woods, Schubert, Feehally, Narasaki, and maybe another Japanese climber. Just looked it up and only found additional reference to a Liam Vance who flashed Sky in Rocklands.

Edit: Will's comment on a comment on the video says he thinks 8th or 9th person. What a beast

Mega! Surely a Bosiwad thread is deserved at this point?

Agreed
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 18, 2022, 07:19:15 pm
Had a quick look in the climbing-history.org (http://climbing-history.org) database and I count eight 8B+ flashers with eleven flashes between them, though I could well be missing some.

Daniel WoodsEntlinge
Adam OndraGecko Assis
Jimmy WebbSky
Adam OndraJade
Jimmy WebbThe Globalist
Liam VanceSky
Ned FeehallyTrust Issues
Jakob SchubertCatalan Witness the FItness
Tomoa NarasakiDecided
Jakob SchubertThe Never Ending Story
Will BosiCharizard
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 18, 2022, 07:32:29 pm
Any ideas as to who the Globalist is? Jeff Bezos?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on April 18, 2022, 09:38:57 pm
That's mad, Will has flashed 2 8B's and one 8B+ in the last two months now!!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 18, 2022, 09:52:06 pm
That's mad, Will has flashed 2 8B's and one 8B+ in the last two months now!!

He was super close on another 8B flash too (dropped the last move or so of Flip Flopera on the same day he flashed 4X+1).
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 19, 2022, 08:48:34 am
That's mad, Will has flashed 2 8B's and one 8B+ in the last two months now!!

Well I was thinking about this after he flashed XXXX+1; if he's aiming to climb 8C+, and 9A, then he really should be flashing, or at least trying to flash, 8B especially in his style. It really shouldn't be a surprise that he's capable of doing so at that target "redpoint" level.

There have been a few discussions on here about flashing and generally it seemed to average out that people's best flashes were somewhere around 3-4 grades below their max worked problem, e.g. I've flashed a handful of 7B+s versus a max worked of (debatable) 8A+.

Certainly doesn't mean you'll flash all of them, and in fact there'll be plenty that still take multiple sessions for all sorts of reasons.

Not that any of that diminishes the achievements at all, it's just interesting perspective.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: cowboyhat on April 19, 2022, 09:29:18 am
Will Bosi has flashed a problem called Charizard, a Martin Stranik number that gets 8B+!

Second Brit to flash the grade after Ned I think?

https://youtu.be/2sQKM7CfcKE

I know aesthetics aren’t his bag but that looks fucking awful.

Maybe it ‘climbs well’. No doubt it’s hard.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 19, 2022, 09:38:15 am
I was expecting it to boost straight up the massive spans between the crimps on the blank wall above the start.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on April 19, 2022, 09:56:13 am
I was expecting it to boost straight up the massive spans between the crimps on the blank wall above the start.

8B coming in from a bit to the right

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bUMRMz31slo
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: andy popp on April 19, 2022, 09:57:29 am
I was expecting it to boost straight up the massive spans between the crimps on the blank wall above the start.

I think that's an 8A+ he flashed on the same day (along with another 8A+) before, again on the same day, linking it into a reverse of the 8B+ to give a new 8C.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 19, 2022, 10:14:42 am
I was expecting it to boost straight up the massive spans between the crimps on the blank wall above the start.

I think that's an 8A+ he flashed on the same day (along with another 8A+) before, again on the same day, linking it into a reverse of the 8B+ to give a new 8C.

Yep, more details here

https://www.8a.nu/news/flash-record-breaking-day-by-will-bosi-8b+-8a+-and-8a+ (https://www.8a.nu/news/flash-record-breaking-day-by-will-bosi-8b+-8a+-and-8a+)

Basically go board climbing and then campus afterwards folks.


Will Bosi has flashed a problem called Charizard, a Martin Stranik number that gets 8B+!

Second Brit to flash the grade after Ned I think?

https://youtu.be/2sQKM7CfcKE

I know aesthetics aren’t his bag but that looks fucking awful.

Maybe it ‘climbs well’. No doubt it’s hard.

Not wrong. The straight up looks amazing at least.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 19, 2022, 04:16:43 pm
The straight up looks amazing at least.

I'd happily forego the increase in grade to get that ticked.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 20, 2022, 04:24:00 pm
Not wrong. The straight up looks amazing at least.

Can't link to his IG at work, but looks like he's done FA of a more direct up version - Bulbasaur 8C. Says vid on YouTube but can't see it
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 20, 2022, 04:25:12 pm
Will Bosi has flashed a problem called Charizard, a Martin Stranik number that gets 8B+!

Second Brit to flash the grade after Ned I think?

https://youtu.be/2sQKM7CfcKE

I know aesthetics aren’t his bag but that looks fucking awful.

Maybe it ‘climbs well’. No doubt it’s hard.

Still a poor line, but it makes much more sense when done in the link up

https://youtu.be/p7r-5RIdtYU

Not wrong. The straight up looks amazing at least.

Can't link to his IG at work, but looks like he's done FA of a more direct up version - Bulbasaur 8C. Says vid on YouTube but can't see it

Got it for ya ;)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 20, 2022, 04:52:24 pm
he said he messed up the load first. The link is pretty obv.

Do we need to replace one of the current "WadWatches" with one for him?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on April 20, 2022, 07:41:48 pm
That's pretty wild
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on April 20, 2022, 09:59:39 pm
Great effort, that looks proper log!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 20, 2022, 10:44:53 pm
Interesting to see how differently they both do the top moves. Going off crap crimp on the right looks brick hard, but kills the swing on the last move, whereas going to the top with both hands looks easier, but leaves you with a massive swing out?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: shark on April 22, 2022, 08:53:06 am
Summary of Will’s ascents over the last few months:

www.climber.co.uk/news/will-bosi-on-fire-in-czech-republic
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: iwasmexican on April 22, 2022, 09:18:33 am
now that he's got his own thread- I remember seeing him back in 2014 (barely hit puberty) floating up problems at alien 2 that I'd seen multiple ~8B climbers serisouly fail to do individual moves on...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duncan campbell on April 22, 2022, 09:27:58 am
To be honest, great to see Will snubbing the comps and focusing on outdoors. On some form at the moment!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 22, 2022, 09:42:08 am
now that he's got his own thread- I remember seeing him back in 2014 (barely hit puberty) floating up problems at alien 2 that I'd seen multiple ~8B climbers serisouly fail to do individual moves on...

When they use to do the Scottish Bouldering Championships they would do a round at each of the local walls through out the winter and he turned up to the Aberdeen round once about 5 years ago and pissed up everything, even the stuff Max Milne found hard back then.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on April 22, 2022, 10:15:25 am
now that he's got his own thread- I remember seeing him back in 2014 (barely hit puberty) floating up problems at alien 2 that I'd seen multiple ~8B climbers serisouly fail to do individual moves on...

That's the feeling I always get seeing him climb - he just seems to hit every hold in the right position, with minimal extra power used. Basically most things look about 7A when he climbs them....Even 8B flashes!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 22, 2022, 04:49:32 pm
https://youtu.be/XTbtj2MB6Hc

Another 8C, looking as controlled as ever on it.

Must be so freeing to be this psyched on rock regardless of aesthetics. Not to take anything away from his accomplishments, I'm in awe, but not many of us would be willing to head abroad for stuff that looks like it's been plucked from the tor and dropped in rural Czechia. Maybe it even adds to the achievement!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 22, 2022, 05:39:06 pm
Im more interested to see what he'll get done now he's realised kneebars exist :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on April 22, 2022, 06:00:20 pm
https://youtu.be/XTbtj2MB6Hc

Another 8C, looking as controlled as ever on it.

Must be so freeing to be this psyched on rock regardless of aesthetics. Not to take anything away from his accomplishments, I'm in awe, but not many of us would be willing to head abroad for stuff that looks like it's been plucked from the tor and dropped in rural Czechia. Maybe it even adds to the achievement!

I think it's pretty cool to another wolrd class climber on some of Adam Ondra's minging limestone testpieces. It's definitely not the most aesthetic crag but some of the problems seem to have interesting sequences.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 22, 2022, 06:08:19 pm
I think it's pretty cool to another wolrd class climber on some of Adam Ondra's minging limestone testpieces. It's definitely not the most aesthetic crag but some of the problems seem to have interesting sequences.

Oh for sure, no doubt I'm glad to see someone getting on them. It's just interesting to see someone head abroad to what is in essence a locals crag, as opposed to the more traditional venues with big lines. I suppose the allure of Ondra is enough to make anywhere seem appealing.

Maybe this is some sort of exchange program and he'll be over here soon to check out what our fingery limestone has to offer.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Danny on April 22, 2022, 06:10:02 pm
Comes across as a very Jerry thing, except not as dickish. He's not going there for the world class climbing, but instead to measure himself against the world's best climber.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: cheque on April 22, 2022, 06:40:30 pm
If I had a friend from Czech who climbed at a similar level to me who said, “come and stay with me and we can climb on all my local crags” I wouldn’t say “No, sorry the rock is not aesthetic enough for me to justify spending my precious time on”, I’d be psyched to go on a cool climbing trip with my mate and see a new country and it’s climbing areas. I don’t think that would change if the level we were climbing at was the highest in the world.

Anyway, are we just going to ignore the hanging-rope dab in that last clip?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Danny on April 22, 2022, 07:01:58 pm
I didn't realise they were besties in that sense Cheque. But even if so, I'm not sure I buy that Czech sightseeing and general banter is what's going on here. If I had a mate who said "Come stay with me and we can climb at the Tor" I'd probably say "Fuck off, I've only 25 days of leave a year, and I'm not wasting my skin on that nonsense. See you in Font". In fact I'm sure I've been in a not dissimilar situation and said something like that. Maybe I'm just a dick.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 22, 2022, 07:19:19 pm
I'm sure Will isn't Adam's only friend, and yet nobody has really gone over there and done a similar type of trip. I think it's something respectable about Will that he is keen for this kinds of thing, and I'm not convinced that there are many others pros out there who'd be willing to do the same. Maybe it'll change in time and it'll be a more fashionable destination but certainly not yet.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wood FT on April 22, 2022, 07:41:57 pm
Comes across as a very Jerry thing, except not as dickish. He's not going there for the world class climbing, but instead to measure himself against the world's best climber.

This
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on April 22, 2022, 08:03:10 pm
It would be cool if one day someone like Daniel Woods or Dave Graham comes to the UK to try Aidan Robert's fingery testpieces.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on April 22, 2022, 08:27:58 pm
It would be cool if one day someone like Daniel Woods or Dave Graham comes to the UK to try Aidan Robert's fingery testpieces.

It would be cool to see Will on them!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on April 22, 2022, 08:44:16 pm
I didn't realise they were besties in that sense Cheque. But even if so, I'm not sure I buy that Czech sightseeing and general banter is what's going on here. If I had a mate who said "Come stay with me and we can climb at the Tor" I'd probably say "Fuck off, I've only 25 days of leave a year, and I'm not wasting my skin on that nonsense. See you in Font". In fact I'm sure I've been in a not dissimilar situation and said something like that. Maybe I'm just a dick.

Do you have the same number of free days per year as Ondra?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: macca7 on April 22, 2022, 08:46:32 pm
I didn't realise they were besties in that sense Cheque. But even if so, I'm not sure I buy that Czech sightseeing and general banter is what's going on here. If I had a mate who said "Come stay with me and we can climb at the Tor" I'd probably say "Fuck off, I've only 25 days of leave a year, and I'm not wasting my skin on that nonsense. See you in Font". In fact I'm sure I've been in a not dissimilar situation and said something like that. Maybe I'm just a dick.

But surely that's the big difference he hasn't only got 25 days of leave he's got all year to go wherever and do whatever. If times not an issue we'd all be going everywhere?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: shark on April 22, 2022, 08:56:12 pm
It’s just going where there action, beta and psyche is. Like Dave Mac turning up to go on Lexicon.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on April 22, 2022, 09:42:16 pm
Also people do get different things from climbing. BID and I were talking about this today; I enjoy doing moves that I find hard and pushing myself, and to me that's the heart of climbing. Aesthetics are welcome and important, but hard, demanding moves on choosy limestone shitheaps are hard, demanding moves nonetheless and appealing to me for that.

Perhaps that's a flaw but there you go
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on April 22, 2022, 11:01:43 pm
You lot are on smack. If I had fingers that strong and a trip fund I'd be on Jumbo Love or Finish Line! But hey, each to their own. But you're still on smack.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 23, 2022, 07:42:56 am
Comes across as a very Jerry thing, except not as dickish. He's not going there for the world class climbing, but instead to measure himself against the world's best climber.

This

This. Climbing every day with Ondra for a few weeks is worth the climbing itself being on the chossiest shit heap of a crag imaginable.

I don't actually think the crags themselves look bad at all though. It's just that the locals have come up with a bunch of things that prioritise difficulty over everything else.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on April 23, 2022, 08:22:04 pm
Also people do get different things from climbing. BID and I were talking about this today; I enjoy doing moves that I find hard and pushing myself, and to me that's the heart of climbing. Aesthetics are welcome and important, but hard, demanding moves on choosy limestone shitheaps are hard, demanding moves nonetheless and appealing to me for that.

Perhaps that's a flaw but there you go

I feel the same, I just enjoy going outside and doing problems that challenge myself. Sure it's nice to be a beautiful crag, but I think the quality/difficulty of the moves is generally a priority over the aesthetic beauty of the area for me.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on April 24, 2022, 08:28:28 pm
Comes across as a very Jerry thing, except not as dickish. He's not going there for the world class climbing, but instead to measure himself against the world's best climber.

This

This. Climbing every day with Ondra for a few weeks is worth the climbing itself being on the chossiest shit heap of a crag imaginable.

You can't out flash Ondra if you're not climbing with him. And on his home turf as well, what a flex.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: gme on April 25, 2022, 02:53:21 pm
His full ticklist is on Instagram. Pretty impressive, to the point of ridiculous.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcxikY0D_fQ/
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Paul B on April 25, 2022, 03:14:28 pm
His full ticklist is on Instagram. Pretty impressive, to the point of ridiculous.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcxikY0D_fQ/

I struggle to comprehend a list like that, it's absolutely incredible.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on April 25, 2022, 03:29:06 pm
6 8Cs... bloody hell!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on April 25, 2022, 03:32:48 pm
Mad shit. Mad.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on April 25, 2022, 03:33:12 pm
6 8Cs... bloody hell!

Assuming these aren't just 6 variations of the same climb, then that is very impressive.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 25, 2022, 05:23:28 pm
So apart from a frankly ridiculous ticklist, what else did he benefit from leaving team GB?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 25, 2022, 05:31:59 pm
For anyone unable to see the insta post:
Quote
  Ticklist for my time in Brno ✅
.
Kostej Nesmrtelný 9a
Perla Východu 9a
.
Drift 8C
Pata Ledovce 8C
Bulbasaur 8C FA
Ghost Rider 8C
Tekuté Štěstí 8C
Iceberg 8C
Charizard 8B+ Flash
Sila je Kouzlo 8B+
Svini Mor 8B Flash
Leda Kost 8B
H1N1 8B
Kouzelný sauce 8B
Patička Ledovce 8A+
Fénixovy Slzy 8A+ Flash
The Swirl King Sit 8A+ FA Flash
Blatant 8A+
Kapka z poháru nesmrtelnosti 8A+ 1st go
Švédský závodník Hotofson Sit 8A
Smrad Dálek Sit 8A
2nd place Czech climbing cup

Any idea what 1st go means as opposed to flash? Does it share moves with others that he climbed maybe?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JamieG on April 25, 2022, 05:54:03 pm
For anyone unable to see the insta post:
Quote
  Ticklist for my time in Brno ✅
.
Kostej Nesmrtelný 9a
Perla Východu 9a
.
Drift 8C
Pata Ledovce 8C
Bulbasaur 8C FA
Ghost Rider 8C
Tekuté Štěstí 8C
Iceberg 8C
Charizard 8B+ Flash
Sila je Kouzlo 8B+
Svini Mor 8B Flash
Leda Kost 8B
H1N1 8B
Kouzelný sauce 8B
Patička Ledovce 8A+
Fénixovy Slzy 8A+ Flash
The Swirl King Sit 8A+ FA Flash
Blatant 8A+
Kapka z poháru nesmrtelnosti 8A+ 1st go
Švédský závodník Hotofson Sit 8A
Smrad Dálek Sit 8A
2nd place Czech climbing cup

Any idea what 1st go means as opposed to flash? Does it share moves with others that he climbed maybe?

Absolutely unreal. He says in a comment it shares the start hold with another problem so he doesn’t consider it a flash. That’s very strict in my book. But I guess it is a clear line in sand. Any shared moves/holds = no flash.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 25, 2022, 06:07:50 pm
For anyone unable to see the insta post:
Quote
  Ticklist for my time in Brno ✅
.
Kostej Nesmrtelný 9a
Perla Východu 9a
.
Drift 8C
Pata Ledovce 8C
Bulbasaur 8C FA
Ghost Rider 8C
Tekuté Štěstí 8C
Iceberg 8C
Charizard 8B+ Flash
Sila je Kouzlo 8B+
Svini Mor 8B Flash
Leda Kost 8B
H1N1 8B
Kouzelný sauce 8B
Patička Ledovce 8A+
Fénixovy Slzy 8A+ Flash
The Swirl King Sit 8A+ FA Flash
Blatant 8A+
Kapka z poháru nesmrtelnosti 8A+ 1st go
Švédský závodník Hotofson Sit 8A
Smrad Dálek Sit 8A
2nd place Czech climbing cup

Any idea what 1st go means as opposed to flash? Does it share moves with others that he climbed maybe?

Absolutely unreal. He says in a comment it shares the start hold with another problem so he doesn’t consider it a flash. That’s very strict in my book. But I guess it is a clear line in sand. Any shared moves/holds = no flash.

High standards indeed!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 25, 2022, 06:10:21 pm
Wow, even more impressive then! Very high standards, it would've been easy to just call it a flash. Great trip  :bow:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on April 25, 2022, 07:57:05 pm
I can't believe anyone would consider shared holds to mean anything else

edit: actually, who am I kidding, I can definitely believe that
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 25, 2022, 08:11:05 pm
I can't believe anyone would consider shared holds to mean anything else

edit: actually, who am I kidding, I can definitely believe that

If it's literally just the start hold that is shared then you're not really practising the moves on one problem by trying the other. I'd probably take the flash on both, what with my loose morals.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on April 25, 2022, 08:30:14 pm
I can't believe anyone would consider shared holds to mean anything else

edit: actually, who am I kidding, I can definitely believe that
+1, even if I just pulled my ass of the floor and then dropped off I'd have blow the flash on anything sharing holds imo
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Kingy on April 25, 2022, 08:35:03 pm
An equivalent scenario might be in the Cave where you had already done RA. Could you still flash Cave Life? (the starting holds being the same) The jury's out... 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on April 25, 2022, 08:44:33 pm
I can't believe anyone would consider shared holds to mean anything else

edit: actually, who am I kidding, I can definitely believe that

If it's literally just the start hold that is shared then you're not really practising the moves on one problem by trying the other. I'd probably take the flash on both, what with my loose morals.

That how it begins, next you'll be crouching a sit start, off 4 pads, 3 moves in, 2 meters to the right of the actually climb, dabbing your way to finish with a one hand "match" drop off, on a recently excavated jug, below the top out, and claiming your first 7A.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on April 25, 2022, 09:08:58 pm
An equivalent scenario might be in the Cave where you had already done RA. Could you still flash Cave Life? (the starting holds being the same) The jury's out...
No. Make your choice on the flash go ofc!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 25, 2022, 09:24:47 pm
That how it begins, next you'll be crouching a sit start, off 4 pads, 3 moves in, 2 meters to the right of the actually climb, dabbing your way to finish with a one hand "match" drop off, on a recently excavated jug, below the top out, and claiming your first 7A.

Shit, thought I'd taken that video down :lol:

On reflection I think everyone's probably right. Easier to avoid the ambiguity and just say you can't flash two problems if one of them shares holds with another.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 25, 2022, 09:49:08 pm
An equivalent scenario might be in the Cave where you had already done RA. Could you still flash Cave Life? (the starting holds being the same) The jury's out...
No. Make your choice on the flash go ofc!

Surely it's the moves that are important; the moves of the two problems are totally different right from pulling on, so there's no way in my mind that doing one would invalidate the flash on the other. Logically you're implying that even touching the start hold without pulling on would invalidate the flash; it's the same thing.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on April 25, 2022, 09:59:55 pm
Logically you're implying that even touching the start hold without pulling on would invalidate the flash; it's the same thing.

Not quite. Pulling onto a start hold and taking both feet off the floor, then stepping off again, would invalidate a flash n’est-ce pas?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Aussiegav on April 25, 2022, 10:09:01 pm
So based on this principle, you can discount a very large proportion of flashed problems on the Moonboards.
 :worms:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on April 25, 2022, 10:43:04 pm
An equivalent scenario might be in the Cave where you had already done RA. Could you still flash Cave Life? (the starting holds being the same) The jury's out...
No. Make your choice on the flash go ofc!

Surely it's the moves that are important; the moves of the two problems are totally different right from pulling on, so there's no way in my mind that doing one would invalidate the flash on the other. Logically you're implying that even touching the start hold without pulling on would invalidate the flash; it's the same thing.

Soon you'll be saying that taking a hold with your left hand on one problem means you can use it with your right hand to flash an adjacent problem. Then before you know it, you'll be crouching a sit start, off 4 pads, 3 moves in, 2 meters to the right ... and claiming your first 7A.

But more seriously, consider a problem where the start holds, and feet, are terrible and they require a good bit of effort to hold and move from, having held and cranked off those holds previously for one problem would be a huge advantage mentally, and physically, when "flashing" another problem.

Also what actually counts as a move? If you have to do a few foot moves to place a cruxy high heel before you even move your hands, can you do that on both problems as long as you go in a different direction to different holds afterwards?

"Any grey area in climbing will always get abused" (36chambers' Law), so why not make the definition as clean cut as possible?



Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on April 25, 2022, 11:05:08 pm
Is it still a flash if you tape a book to your leg, then use the same book on a different problem?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 26, 2022, 10:26:27 am
If they share the same start, you need to use a different book for each problem. I recommend carrying the Harry Potter series around, as they get thicker as the series progresses, should cover the full range.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 26, 2022, 04:59:37 pm
Logically you're implying that even touching the start hold without pulling on would invalidate the flash; it's the same thing.

Not quite. Pulling onto a start hold and taking both feet off the floor, then stepping off again, would invalidate a flash n’est-ce pas?

An equivalent scenario might be in the Cave where you had already done RA. Could you still flash Cave Life? (the starting holds being the same) The jury's out...
No. Make your choice on the flash go ofc!

Surely it's the moves that are important; the moves of the two problems are totally different right from pulling on, so there's no way in my mind that doing one would invalidate the flash on the other. Logically you're implying that even touching the start hold without pulling on would invalidate the flash; it's the same thing.

Soon you'll be saying that taking a hold with your left hand on one problem means you can use it with your right hand to flash an adjacent problem. Then before you know it, you'll be crouching a sit start, off 4 pads, 3 moves in, 2 meters to the right ... and claiming your first 7A.

But more seriously, consider a problem where the start holds, and feet, are terrible and they require a good bit of effort to hold and move from, having held and cranked off those holds previously for one problem would be a huge advantage mentally, and physically, when "flashing" another problem.

Also what actually counts as a move? If you have to do a few foot moves to place a cruxy high heel before you even move your hands, can you do that on both problems as long as you go in a different direction to different holds afterwards?

"Any grey area in climbing will always get abused" (36chambers' Law), so why not make the definition as clean cut as possible?





All very good, reasonable points I'm sure but I'd still be having it and I don't mind who knows it!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: ferret on April 27, 2022, 12:43:18 am
Poor old Bosi, finally gets his own thread and what's in it? 2 pages about the aesthetics of bouldering and what constitutes a flash lmao.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on April 27, 2022, 08:29:16 am
Poor old Bosi, finally gets his own thread and what's in it? 2 pages about the aesthetics of bouldering and what constitutes a flash lmao.

Welcome to UKB  ;D
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: shark on April 27, 2022, 08:53:56 am
If they share the same start, you need to use a different book for each problem. I recommend carrying the Harry Potter series around, as they get thicker as the series progresses, should cover the full range.

Reminded me of the Ondra film called the “wizards apprentice” ten years ago. Bosi is a deserving heir for that epithet.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: rosmat on April 27, 2022, 12:50:48 pm
Fuck this - there’s only one Jerry!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: honroid on April 27, 2022, 08:32:28 pm
Poor old Bosi, finally gets his own thread and what's in it? 2 pages about the aesthetics of bouldering and what constitutes a flash lmao.

Ha. That is funny actually.
This Bosi Czech ticklist is utterly ridiculous though. I can't fathom. Dave Graham has just had arguably his best season ever over in Swizzle and the list doesn't compare..
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bonjoy on April 27, 2022, 11:48:20 pm

Also what actually counts as a move?
What counts as the same hold? Is either end of the same pocket/ledge/break okay, so long as no bit of your hand touches a bit already used? So you could mono either side of a two finger pocket on the two problems to maintain the flash?
Isn't gritstone all one hold? Ergo you only get one flash attempt per lifetime.
I think Bosi is smoking crack.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on April 28, 2022, 01:42:56 am
Will's recent performance only makes me wonder even more about the grade of mutation.   :-\
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Paul B on April 28, 2022, 01:33:34 pm
I think Bosi is smoking crack.

Perhaps but the result is 'the critics' saying he's being far too strict rather than any hint of a shadow over what he's done (which I'll repeat again, is fucking incredible)?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on April 28, 2022, 02:52:16 pm
what he's done (which I'll repeat again, is fucking incredible)?

I struggle to recall if there has been anything like his one month ticklist from the Brno in the last few years, and must admit that I draw a complete blank.

Judging from the comments on his instagram he has tried a lot of really hard stuff that he did not do as well, so the volume of climbing has been staggering.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on April 28, 2022, 03:32:32 pm
Agreed, I can't think of anything comparable. Particularly when you consider that he's gone to an area with a very specific style which most people would take a while to adapt to (well perhaps less so if you've basically ticked the tor, but still). It would be far less surprising, though still v impressive, to do this sort of thing in Rocklands, Swizzy etc
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: grimer on April 28, 2022, 04:06:31 pm
I interviewed Will. Apologies in advance

https://youtu.be/8P_Odm5nRUM
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on April 28, 2022, 05:20:07 pm
I interviewed Will. Apologies in advance

https://youtu.be/8P_Odm5nRUM

Thanks for that Niall
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on April 28, 2022, 07:26:12 pm
It would be far less surprising, though still v impressive, to do this sort of thing in Rocklands, Swizzy etc

I think if he’d gone to Switzerland and done a similar amount of high 8’s, people wouldn’t be discussing what did or didn’t constitute a flash, because the aesthetic quality of the problems is so much higher there, and as a punter I would find that way more inspiring.

I guess it would be like the difference between someone going and doing all the hard problems at Impossible Roof, or going and doing all Dan V’s hard problems in the County.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on April 28, 2022, 07:46:17 pm
In all fairness we did all verbally cream our panties at the sight of the Bosinator's huge throbbing girthy ticklist before arguing over what is or isn't a flash
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 28, 2022, 08:57:23 pm
Expressions of awe - often repetitive in a boring way
Debate about the fine points of ethics - often repetitive but in an more entertaining way

Let's not kid ourselves, it's the main reason we're all here
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on April 28, 2022, 10:39:59 pm
It would be far less surprising, though still v impressive, to do this sort of thing in Rocklands, Swizzy etc

I think if he’d gone to Switzerland and done a similar amount of high 8’s, people wouldn’t be discussing what did or didn’t constitute a flash, because the aesthetic quality of the problems is so much higher there, and as a punter I would find that way more inspiring.

I guess it would be like the difference between someone going and doing all the hard problems at Impossible Roof, or going and doing all Dan V’s hard problems in the County.

Agreed, and I believe it would have created more impact worldwide had he gone and done 6 8C's in Switzerland. Though I dont doubt he's capable, as I expect Ondra's grades aren't soft!

Speaking of #swizzy, all has been quiet on the Aidanwad front for a while. Hopefully there's another girthy ticklist coming soon!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bonjoy on April 29, 2022, 09:25:13 am
I disagree. I’m impressed with Will’s ticklist for the pure (Ondra certified) difficulty, and the chutzpah of the guy going out to Ondra’s home crag and testing himself against these things. I’d be no more or less impressed if these were proud soaring overhung aretes. The aesthetics are irrelevant to the achievement in this case. You can’t go out and test yourself against Ondra AND climb the ultimate kinglines of the world on the same trip. You do the Ondra trip and then you do the kinglines trip. Respect to Will for doing the unobvious (even if he is smoking crack on the flash definition front).
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bonjoy on April 29, 2022, 09:26:49 am
PS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnbrEay6MoI
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on April 29, 2022, 09:30:55 am
You can’t go out and test yourself against Ondra AND climb the ultimate kinglines of the world on the same trip.

Given that Ondra has FAd many great lines, and tested himself against many others, I wouldn't agree with this... though I guess maybe I'm thinking routes and you're thinking boulders?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bonjoy on April 29, 2022, 09:36:37 am
Yes, bouldering.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bonjoy on April 29, 2022, 09:39:05 am
Would be great to see Will try himself against Ondra's Flatanger routes. That would be another level of impressive and demonstrate proper breadth of ability across styles.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on April 29, 2022, 09:45:18 am
Doing all the hardest problems, none of which have any appreciable line or indeed are recognisable from more than five feet away, at the local chossy seeping limestone shitheap, is perversely glorious. And going to the local chossy seeping limestone shitheap of arguably the best climber in the world is even more so.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on April 29, 2022, 10:06:45 am
Would be great to see Will try himself against Ondra's Flatanger routes. That would be another level of impressive and demonstrate proper breadth of ability across styles.

He mentions how hard he found Ondra's (local) routes briefly in Niall's chat above - interesting how it was the level of stamina he seemed most blown away by when training with AO
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on May 13, 2022, 08:38:29 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKKKHegw0G8
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: peterbeal on May 23, 2022, 10:47:39 pm
https://youtu.be/IfnkQC9k2ZU  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on May 24, 2022, 09:44:38 am
Good stuff, looks even grottier than Ondra's local chossheaps  :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on June 07, 2022, 04:05:49 pm
Looks like WIll's nabbed the second ascent of Silent Singer 8C, Aidan Robert's recent addition to the bowderstone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohD1vwdOYNs
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Aussiegav on June 08, 2022, 01:37:21 pm
Is Will still in the Lattice stable or does he have new coaching set up?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on June 08, 2022, 01:47:57 pm
Is Will still in the Lattice stable or does he have new coaching set up?

Yeah he's Lattice.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on June 13, 2022, 04:06:23 pm
https://youtu.be/r2Xaz-vfrtw

Second ascent of Outliers 8C.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on June 13, 2022, 04:07:17 pm
Ha, beat me to it!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Adam Lincoln on June 13, 2022, 04:15:44 pm
An 8C a week keeps the doctor away…..
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on June 13, 2022, 04:19:55 pm
https://youtu.be/r2Xaz-vfrtw

Second ascent of Outliers 8C.

 :bow:

I recognise the name but can't remember where it is / who put it up. Would anyone be kind enough to educate me?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JamieG on June 13, 2022, 04:23:24 pm
Apparently it is at Trowbarrel! :-) I think Bosi has fallen foul of the spell checker.

I believe it is an Aidan Roberts problem at Trowbarrow Quarry.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on June 13, 2022, 04:27:42 pm
I wonder why Will hasn't decided to climb an 8C+ yet. It seems like he almost certainly could at the rate he knocks out 8Cs.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: mr chaz on June 13, 2022, 05:09:12 pm
Aye, pull your finger out Will
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on June 13, 2022, 08:36:03 pm
Makes that look about 2 number grades easier.

Superpowers has got to be next.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: peterbeal on July 02, 2022, 06:45:42 pm
One Summer vibe here

https://youtu.be/OWDud_bE7G8
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on July 13, 2022, 06:46:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI21D12VHwM

best clip of belay ever
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: duncan on July 14, 2022, 07:48:31 pm
Will's Careless Talk interview (https://www.buzzsprout.com/1996606/10933696) goes well with the video. Sounds like he really enjoyed Czech.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: moose on July 14, 2022, 08:55:24 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI21D12VHwM

best clip of belay ever

Best part for me was the clip of the 14 y.o. Ondra's FA of the route - bouncy moppet using seldom-seen one-finger full-crimps!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: peterbeal on July 14, 2022, 09:07:26 pm
Will B pitches off the top of the thing

Adam voiceover: "An interesting thing is that back then, in 2007, I was 14 years old when I made the first ascent and I only gave it 8c+."

Interesting.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on July 15, 2022, 04:55:33 pm
Another v15 fa at badger cove.

https://youtu.be/YFy0RRpYNf0
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on July 18, 2022, 08:57:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI21D12VHwM

best clip of belay ever
That was good fun. The crag looks a lot less like a Czech Raven Tor in that video. Cool climbing and a brilliant chain clip.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on August 26, 2022, 08:33:44 am
https://www.instagram.com/p/Chr-yz5jPdn/

Crescendo is soft apparently!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duncan campbell on August 26, 2022, 10:06:03 am
 :jaw:

Bloody hell! Somebody has been lifting even heavier 300kg weights than Dan Varian!!!

 :popcorn:

*this is all tongue in cheek for clarity
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: mr chaz on August 26, 2022, 10:37:46 am
So many moves without actually moving anywhere. Also Aidan’s face is a picture.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on August 26, 2022, 11:11:11 am
Chatting your was through the end of an 8B+, no big deal 😄
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on August 26, 2022, 07:15:20 pm
So many moves without actually moving anywhere.
Great isn't it. I always like stuff where climbers have to move limbs back or down or anywhere but up, to get into the finally correct position to progress up.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Rockslayer on September 12, 2022, 10:15:44 pm
Bumped into Will at Kentmere a couple of weeks ago. He'd just sent Little Women and flashed Tourniquet as a warm-up.

Had an interesting chat about Shadowplay too. Reckons there's enough holds that he'd be interested to try. Described them as a similar size to Burden of dreams, only steeper and with worse footholds
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: ferret on September 12, 2022, 10:51:47 pm
Described them as a similar size to Burden of dreams, only steeper and with worse footholds
Sounds like he's describing a 9A+
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on September 12, 2022, 11:16:10 pm
My dream Shadowplay scenario where someone does it and then Gaskins releases a timestamped vid proving he put it up, then benevolently forgives a sobbing, prostrate Dan Varian for his lack of faith, comes one step closer to fruition...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on September 13, 2022, 07:07:42 am
My dream Shadowplay scenario where someone does it and then Gaskins releases a timestamped vid proving he put it up, then benevolently forgives a sobbing, prostrate Dan Varian for his lack of faith, comes one step closer to fruition...

This, yes please!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Banana finger on September 13, 2022, 09:04:59 am
The Shadowplay uncut footie is currently with Gaskins' lawyers to be released only upon his demise. The final scene is him with 2 middle fingers up as it slowly fades to white.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on September 13, 2022, 09:25:05 am
For Will to know what the holds feel like on Burden of Dreams it means he's been playing on Aidan's replica. Looking forward to the Wedge video!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 07, 2022, 09:05:08 pm
Little flash of Vechio Leone https://www.instagram.com/p/Ckqk3sdDVjY/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on November 09, 2022, 10:01:32 am
Barely a flicker of acknowledgement! An impressive achievement?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on November 09, 2022, 10:30:52 am
Just what's expected really....  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on November 09, 2022, 10:32:56 am
Barely a flicker of acknowledgement! An impressive achievement?

I would have been more surprised if he didn't flash it.

Also spotted in the comments, Will reckons the straight up that they are trying on Alphane is three 8C's in a row. I put that in the Darth Grader assuming no rests and in French money that would get 10a/10a+. Science  :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on November 09, 2022, 11:23:41 am
Barely a flicker of acknowledgement! An impressive achievement?

What is there to say? Exceptional climber, known to be exceptional via recent achievements, delivers exceptional performance.

I do think there's an interesting lack of discussion around Bosi's style, and what makes him so good, in comparison to Aidan where there's lots of chat about pinky bent fingerboarding and how impressively static / controlled he is, how he gets weight on his feet, etc.

What makes Bosi so good?! I wondered whether he's just a bit of a crimp waif taken to the nth degree (he looks pretty skinny in those pics on Vecchio), but then he's done plenty of burly things too.

Lastly this is a bit like an 8A climber flashing a 7B. Good, but not spectacular...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on November 09, 2022, 11:36:37 am
What makes Bosi so good?! I wondered whether he's just a bit of a crimp waif taken to the nth degree (he looks pretty skinny in those pics on Vecchio), but then he's done plenty of burly things too.

OK, maybe I'm too easily impressed. His secret is he was brought up on full sugar IRN BRU, gave him tendons like girrrrderrrs
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on November 09, 2022, 12:18:53 pm
Barely a flicker of acknowledgement! An impressive achievement?

What is there to say? Exceptional climber, known to be exceptional via recent achievements, delivers exceptional performance.

I do think there's an interesting lack of discussion around Bosi's style, and what makes him so good, in comparison to Aidan where there's lots of chat about pinky bent fingerboarding and how impressively static / controlled he is, how he gets weight on his feet, etc.

What makes Bosi so good?! I wondered whether he's just a bit of a crimp waif taken to the nth degree (he looks pretty skinny in those pics on Vecchio), but then he's done plenty of burly things too.

Lastly this is a bit like an 8A climber flashing a 7B. Good, but not spectacular...

I've also been thinking about the differences between the two of them and I'm beginning to think that Aidan's bent pinky thing is probably a distraction for most people. He claims his pinky is the same length as his index finger, so I reckon it's his unique morphology that demands a focus on pinky strength/angle. In contrast, I've heard Will claim to be front 3 dominant and that he will happily drop a pinky. The point being that the specific style is probably unimportant, as long as it works for your own strengths/morphology.

What I think is likely more responsible for their success, and a common trait, is that Aidan and Will are both recent comp beasts turned full time rock climbers, still at an age where gains are optimal. They've both been through years and years of intense, structured training and continue to do so. Daniel Woods was one of the best of his generation (and still is!) for similar reasons, but training has moved on and is likely better structured and more advanced today than it was 10 years ago. At 33, Daniel Woods is no longer at an age where physical gains will be optimal (:worms:). Shawn Raboutou has a similar-ish background to Will and Aidan and I'd put money on him taking the Mellow crown from Daniel/Jimmy/Nalle over the next few years if he hasn't already.

TL/DR - be young and train hard with up-to-date training principles.

Aidan's seemingly microscopic attention to detail with regards to movement and reasons for failure are probably going to be more useful than pinky angle for anyone into projecting. I've been trying to apply this to my own goals. E.g. Simply stating "need more compression strength" isn't good enough. How wide is the compression, what is the angle between the holds and how long do I need to hold it for? Do I also need to move my feet while holding that compression?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on November 09, 2022, 12:22:27 pm
Barely a flicker of acknowledgement! An impressive achievement?

What is there to say? Exceptional climber, known to be exceptional via recent achievements, delivers exceptional performance.

I do think there's an interesting lack of discussion around Bosi's style, and what makes him so good, in comparison to Aidan where there's lots of chat about pinky bent fingerboarding and how impressively static / controlled he is, how he gets weight on his feet, etc.

What makes Bosi so good?! I wondered whether he's just a bit of a crimp waif taken to the nth degree (he looks pretty skinny in those pics on Vecchio), but then he's done plenty of burly things too.

Lastly this is a bit like an 8A climber flashing a 7B. Good, but not spectacular...

He definitely seems to be very much in the "don't weigh much" camp which I guess is very effective for sport climbing as well (not that I know but most top sport climbers seem to be very light) He seems to have mega strong fingers on tiny holds but didn't he say he wasn't a fan of monos?

Aidan is just more obviously an animal on static full crimps, even amongst his peers, so it provokes a lot of discussion. But apparently Drew Ruana said both Will and Aidan are total freaks of nature and obscenely strong, proper "cellar dwellers" so maybe Bosi is like that too and we just don't see it so obviously displayed like with Aidan.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on November 09, 2022, 12:31:03 pm
It'd be great to see some proper side-by-side beta & movement comparison videos of Wiil/Aiden&Shawn.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 09, 2022, 01:08:48 pm
He definitely seems to be very much in the "don't weigh much" camp which I guess is very effective for sport climbing as well (not that I know but most top sport climbers seem to be very light) He seems to have mega strong fingers on tiny holds but didn't he say he wasn't a fan of monos?

I think Will is 60-something kg? For someone his height imo that doesn't put you in waif territory.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 09, 2022, 01:12:03 pm
Shawn Raboutou has a similar-ish background to Will and Aidan and I'd put money on him taking the Mellow crown from Daniel/Jimmy/Nalle over the next few years if he hasn't already.

I'd say he probably has already. It seems pretty likely he's done Megatron, so he's got 2x 9A to his name plus a string of other super hard things to his name.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on November 09, 2022, 01:37:56 pm
He definitely seems to be very much in the "don't weigh much" camp which I guess is very effective for sport climbing as well (not that I know but most top sport climbers seem to be very light) He seems to have mega strong fingers on tiny holds but didn't he say he wasn't a fan of monos?

I think Will is 60-something kg? For someone his height imo that doesn't put you in waif territory.

I honestly thought that he was sub 60, like Steve Mc, but fair enough. I guess he's a bit taller than Steve? I've seen Will in the works and he looked very light but looks can be deceiving.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on November 09, 2022, 01:45:37 pm
He definitely seems to be very much in the "don't weigh much" camp which I guess is very effective for sport climbing as well (not that I know but most top sport climbers seem to be very light) He seems to have mega strong fingers on tiny holds but didn't he say he wasn't a fan of monos?

I think Will is 60-something kg? For someone his height imo that doesn't put you in waif territory.

I honestly thought that he was sub 60, like Steve Mc, but fair enough. I guess he's a bit taller than Steve? I've seen Will in the works and he looked very light but looks can be deceiving.

Amongst non-climbers, just about every elite climber is going to look small/thin. Even 'big' Jimmy Webb is only high 70's despite being 6 foot something? Will doesn't look particularly thin amongst his peers to me.

 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on November 09, 2022, 03:58:10 pm
I wonder how many people are repping +15 kg one arm hangs on the BM2K middle rung for an "average" fingerboard session, see 3:43

https://youtu.be/x_U7P53CiQE
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MischaHY on November 09, 2022, 04:01:07 pm
Barely a flicker of acknowledgement! An impressive achievement?

What is there to say? Exceptional climber, known to be exceptional via recent achievements, delivers exceptional performance.

I do think there's an interesting lack of discussion around Bosi's style, and what makes him so good, in comparison to Aidan where there's lots of chat about pinky bent fingerboarding and how impressively static / controlled he is, how he gets weight on his feet, etc.

What makes Bosi so good?! I wondered whether he's just a bit of a crimp waif taken to the nth degree (he looks pretty skinny in those pics on Vecchio), but then he's done plenty of burly things too.

Lastly this is a bit like an 8A climber flashing a 7B. Good, but not spectacular...

I've also been thinking about the differences between the two of them and I'm beginning to think that Aidan's bent pinky thing is probably a distraction for most people. He claims his pinky is the same length as his index finger, so I reckon it's his unique morphology that demands a focus on pinky strength/angle. In contrast, I've heard Will claim to be front 3 dominant and that he will happily drop a pinky. The point being that the specific style is probably unimportant, as long as it works for your own strengths/morphology.

What I think is likely more responsible for their success, and a common trait, is that Aidan and Will are both recent comp beasts turned full time rock climbers, still at an age where gains are optimal. They've both been through years and years of intense, structured training and continue to do so. Daniel Woods was one of the best of his generation (and still is!) for similar reasons, but training has moved on and is likely better structured and more advanced today than it was 10 years ago. At 33, Daniel Woods is no longer at an age where physical gains will be optimal (:worms:). Shawn Raboutou has a similar-ish background to Will and Aidan and I'd put money on him taking the Mellow crown from Daniel/Jimmy/Nalle over the next few years if he hasn't already.

TL/DR - be young and train hard with up-to-date training principles.

Aidan's seemingly microscopic attention to detail with regards to movement and reasons for failure are probably going to be more useful than pinky angle for anyone into projecting. I've been trying to apply this to my own goals. E.g. Simply stating "need more compression strength" isn't good enough. How wide is the compression, what is the angle between the holds and how long do I need to hold it for? Do I also need to move my feet while holding that compression?

I have similar finger anatomy and have also recently made exceedingly good gains on crimps by following a steeper finger angle in training. In fact my intension for the next training block based on this experience is to train front/back 3 in a high angle position to more specifically hit the index/pinky without having to add a load of weight. Since training it I've noticed that the difference between being able to lock off a hold or having to snatch for the next one/not being able to generate force properly can really come down to whether the pinky is engaged steeply enough. I think as long as you haven't got a very short pinky it's a good target for training if you're not strong in that grip position already.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on November 09, 2022, 11:38:00 pm
https://www.instagram.com/p/CkvvuH6D4hR/

Looks like a new 8C.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: highrepute on November 10, 2022, 11:13:27 am
https://www.instagram.com/p/CkvvuH6D4hR/

Looks like a new 8C.

Video of first ascent, looks good.

https://youtu.be/F80F0qHT12Q
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Felix14 on November 10, 2022, 11:22:52 am
https://youtu.be/8uBS9OYa2P8

Alphane interview

Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on November 10, 2022, 12:30:45 pm
https://www.instagram.com/p/CkvvuH6D4hR/

Looks like a new 8C.

Video of first ascent, looks good.

https://youtu.be/F80F0qHT12Q
The other one looks even better!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on November 10, 2022, 01:25:51 pm
https://youtu.be/8uBS9OYa2P8

Alphane interview
Very nice, clear eloquent and informative  :yes:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on November 10, 2022, 02:17:57 pm
https://www.instagram.com/p/CkvvuH6D4hR/

Looks like a new 8C.

Video of first ascent, looks good.

https://youtu.be/F80F0qHT12Q

There's a good vid of Aiden and one of the German beasts on this from the spring somewhere
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on November 10, 2022, 02:33:57 pm
https://youtu.be/eCw02l75etM

Aidan and Yannick Flohe. Both in a session!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: AndyP on November 10, 2022, 04:00:42 pm
https://youtu.be/8uBS9OYa2P8

Alphane interview

So, is he implying that Terranova could actually have been the world's first 9A boulder?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Felix14 on November 10, 2022, 04:17:09 pm
And burden the first 9A+?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on November 10, 2022, 04:47:32 pm
Quote
So, is he implying that Terranova could actually have been the world's first 9A boulder?

And burden the first 9A+?

I noticed both of those suggestions too!

The sport/boulder grade thing is interesting. Will seems confused that 9A's like Alphane and Honey Badger ( ;)) have only taken him a couple of weeks to do, but routes from 9a+ to 9b+ have taken much longer. There are a few possible explanations:

1. Top end sport is harder than top end bouldering. I find this one hard to buy into since the talent pool for bouldering and sport climbing is similar and the training methods in each discipline are also both similarly advanced. Jakob waltzes up 9b+ routes but got shut down by Sleepwalker 8C+, so it's not all one way traffic of multi-disciplinary climbers having an easier time with top end bouldering.

2. Will is even better at bouldering than he is at sport climbing.

3. More time has passed since he transitioned to full time rock climbing, he is on particularly good form right now and happens to be focusing on bouldering. He mentions that he's going to visit Stefano to try Excalibur, which seems to be a candidate for 9c. If he does well then I think we can just crown Will the king of climbing and forget the other points above   :bow:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Sasquatch on November 10, 2022, 05:07:04 pm
Shawn Raboutou has a similar-ish background to Will and Aidan and I'd put money on him taking the Mellow crown from Daniel/Jimmy/Nalle over the next few years if he hasn't already.

I'd say he probably has already. It seems pretty likely he's done Megatron, so he's got 2x 9A to his name plus a string of other super hard things to his name.

It seems like Drew Ruana has been trying and still seems to indicate it's a project.  I don't know either, so I have no firsthand knowledge. 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on November 10, 2022, 05:07:08 pm
And burden the first 9A+?
Not sure I extrapolated that, more than Burden was harder to repeat location / conditions-wise, but otherwise merely 9A.??
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on November 10, 2022, 05:40:17 pm
4. Alphane is 8C+
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on November 10, 2022, 05:57:39 pm
I reckon BoD is harder than 9A, just because of how long it took.

Nalle was on form for doing 8C+ in a handful of sessions. He spent literally dozens of sessions trying individual moves on Burden. There seems to be an excluded middle there.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 10, 2022, 06:00:35 pm
5. Alphane and Honey Badger aren't as conditions dependent as the harder stuff at the tor. He mentions in the vid that things should be graded for climbing them in good conditions, but that does throw a spanner in the sessions=>grade calculator when the cons are hard to get right.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on November 10, 2022, 06:34:06 pm
5. Alphane and Honey Badger aren't as conditions dependent as the harder stuff at the tor. He mentions in the vid that things should be graded for climbing them in good conditions, but that does throw a spanner in the sessions=>grade calculator when the cons are hard to get right.

The eternal question if whether things should be (and, slightly separately, whether they typically are) graded for how hard they are, or how hard they are to do...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on November 10, 2022, 06:54:37 pm
5. Alphane and Honey Badger aren't as conditions dependent as the harder stuff at the tor. He mentions in the vid that things should be graded for climbing them in good conditions, but that does throw a spanner in the sessions=>grade calculator when the cons are hard to get right.

The eternal question if whether things should be (and, slightly separately, whether they typically are) graded for how hard they are, or how hard they are to do...

They should be graded for the former, but for something rarely in condition, how would you find out?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on November 10, 2022, 07:20:02 pm
I'm thinking of it as a broader question, not just conditions - e.g. put Hubble at the top of a 20m 7a to a ledge; would be harder to do but not harder... But based on my experience would probably get a higher grade, though it does vary a bit
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on November 10, 2022, 07:32:13 pm
Nalle was on form for doing 8C+ in a handful of sessions. He spent literally dozens of sessions trying individual moves on Burden. There seems to be an excluded middle there.

I'm not sure about the first part, which 8C+s do you mean?

Sleepwalker was a multi-season effort (albeit with FA woes and using harder beta). Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not sure he's done another confirmed 8C+, since the jury's still out for things like Livin Large and Gioia.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on November 10, 2022, 07:45:17 pm
6. One person is not enough to make a consensus. Could you imagine if it turned out Will couldn't do The Big Island, let alone the sit. Where would that leave us?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on November 10, 2022, 07:55:31 pm
We need Simon Lorenzi to pull his finger out and get it done and give it 8C+ so we can move on. Be interesting to see if the yanks disregard it if he does in the same way they ignore Soudain Seul in these discussions
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on November 10, 2022, 09:12:54 pm
Nalle was on form for doing 8C+ in a handful of sessions. He spent literally dozens of sessions trying individual moves on Burden. There seems to be an excluded middle there.

I'm not sure about the first part, which 8C+s do you mean?

Sleepwalker was a multi-season effort (albeit with FA woes and using harder beta). Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not sure he's done another confirmed 8C+, since the jury's still out for things like Livin Large and Gioia.

The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on November 10, 2022, 09:58:55 pm
Maybe the top end grades discussion should split off?

BoD might get a repeat or 2 over the next year (I'd bet Timonov followed by Roberts) so we may get some commentary on where it stands in comparison to other hard problems.

ROTS could also see a repeat as the underrated beast Matt Fultz has put time into it. I'd be very surprised to see that one do down in grade based on how hard the stand is!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on November 10, 2022, 10:02:06 pm
The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on November 10, 2022, 10:19:30 pm
We need Simon Lorenzi to pull his finger out and get it done and give it 8C+ so we can move on. Be interesting to see if the yanks disregard it if he does in the same way they ignore Soudain Seul in these discussions

Nico Pelorson, who did the second ascent of Soudain Seul (and suggest 8C+), has just posted an insta story showing that he's currently having his first session on Alphane :popcorn: 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on November 10, 2022, 10:58:01 pm
Maybe the top end grades discussion should split off?

BoD might get a repeat or 2 over the next year (I'd bet Timonov followed by Roberts) so we may get some commentary on where it stands in comparison to other hard problems.

ROTS could also see a repeat as the underrated beast Matt Fultz has put time into it. I'd be very surprised to see that one do down in grade based on how hard the stand is!

I'd wager https://www.instagram.com/p/Ckdnw6UyXMq/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY= given he's linked the first 3 moves of BOD and as far as I'm aware aidan hasn't done move 1 yet, idk about timonov? Has Ryohei been closer? He's the other person I was thinking of re BOD.

Also Matt Fultz underrated?! He's cleaning up in the USA!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 10, 2022, 10:58:27 pm

BoD might get a repeat or 2 over the next year (I'd bet Timonov followed by Roberts) so we may get some commentary on where it stands in comparison to other hard problems.

ROTS could also see a repeat as the underrated beast Matt Fultz has put time into it. I'd be very surprised to see that one do down in grade based on how hard the stand is!

Interesting. My money would be on one of the Japanese wads for the second ascent of BoD, Toru or perhaps Ryuichi.

I'll be interested to see what grade ROTS settles at. The stand has had a lot of ascents so I could imagine it going down to 8C one day, though not sure that'd bump ROTS down.

(All said from the comfort of my armchair obviously.)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Muenchener on November 10, 2022, 11:26:41 pm
[idk about timonov?

Getting a Finnish visa could be problematic in current circumstances, unless a professional climber going climbing counts as an essential business trip & not tourism.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on November 10, 2022, 11:50:39 pm
The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?

Oh I didn't know it had been downgraded tbh. I only saw that it was 8C+. That's fair then.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 11, 2022, 07:37:28 am
The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?

Oh I didn't know it had been downgraded tbh. I only saw that it was 8C+. That's fair then.

I don't think Nalle ever actually suggested 8C+ for Finnish line, I think he just said something like "for me it's the hardest boulder in rocklands" which people took to mean "it's a grade harder than all the other 8Cs".
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MischaHY on November 11, 2022, 09:47:33 am
The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?

Oh I didn't know it had been downgraded tbh. I only saw that it was 8C+. That's fair then.

I don't think Nalle ever actually suggested 8C+ for Finnish line, I think he just said something like "for me it's the hardest boulder in rocklands" which people took to mean "it's a grade harder than all the other 8Cs".

Wasn't it one of these 'It's such a good line that I don't want to grade it' things  :-\
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on November 11, 2022, 01:05:36 pm
I'll be interested to see what grade ROTS settles at. The stand has had a lot of ascents so I could imagine it going down to 8C one day, though not sure that'd bump ROTS down.

(All said from the comfort of my armchair obviously.)

Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?

I'm thinking of it as a broader question, not just conditions - e.g. put Hubble at the top of a 20m 7a to a ledge; would be harder to do but not harder... But based on my experience would probably get a higher grade, though it does vary a bit

I was going to say something similar. There are problems which are hard, but easy to do...the more accessible graded example that's springing to my mind is Impropa Opera Sit. As it is people turn up, probably have a dabble on the first move at some point in their session and try other things, eventually doing the move and then the problem. It's always dry, you only need one pad to try the crux and once you're through the crux it's a relative path. Hence despite it being a pretty flipping hard move people keep giving it 7C+ and it gets lots of ascents.

If you put that exact problem, even just the sit start to getting up to the stand start holds, at somewhere like Harter Fell it'd be the hardest thing there, get a much higher grade, and would hardly ever get done.

Alphane strikes me as the Impropa Opera Sit of 9A.

Sleepwalker is probably the same for 8C+ in the Western US.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on November 11, 2022, 01:41:08 pm
Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on November 11, 2022, 04:47:53 pm
Clearly Will Bosi caught us talking meaningless shite in his thread and decided to get it back on track;

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck06Xf0D5cI/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Ephyra 8C+
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Kingy on November 11, 2022, 06:17:31 pm
Amazing!! Could be the quickest ever send of an 8C+??
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on November 11, 2022, 06:47:00 pm
Quote
So, is he implying that Terranova could actually have been the world's first 9A boulder?

And burden the first 9A+?

I noticed both of those suggestions too!

The sport/boulder grade thing is interesting. Will seems confused that 9A's like Alphane and Honey Badger ( ;)) have only taken him a couple of weeks to do, but routes from 9a+ to 9b+ have taken much longer. There are a few possible explanations:

1. Top end sport is harder than top end bouldering. I find this one hard to buy into since the talent pool for bouldering and sport climbing is similar and the training methods in each discipline are also both similarly advanced. Jakob waltzes up 9b+ routes but got shut down by Sleepwalker 8C+, so it's not all one way traffic of multi-disciplinary climbers having an easier time with top end bouldering.

2. Will is even better at bouldering than he is at sport climbing.

3. More time has passed since he transitioned to full time rock climbing, he is on particularly good form right now and happens to be focusing on bouldering. He mentions that he's going to visit Stefano to try Excalibur, which seems to be a candidate for 9c. If he does well then I think we can just crown Will the king of climbing and forget the other points above   :bow:

I wouldn't call Jakob not quite doing an 8C+ boulder on his 3rd session "getting shut down". That said I would agree that it appears Will is better at bouldering to than sport.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: AndyP on November 11, 2022, 06:52:39 pm
"Gradewise I think it's bottom end 8c+.  I definitely think it's harder than forgotten gem 8c, but easier than Alphane and Honey Badger".

To me that sounds like he thinks Alphane is 8c+.....
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on November 11, 2022, 06:58:29 pm
Quote
So, is he implying that Terranova could actually have been the world's first 9A boulder?

And burden the first 9A+?

I noticed both of those suggestions too!

The sport/boulder grade thing is interesting. Will seems confused that 9A's like Alphane and Honey Badger ( ;)) have only taken him a couple of weeks to do, but routes from 9a+ to 9b+ have taken much longer. There are a few possible explanations:

1. Top end sport is harder than top end bouldering. I find this one hard to buy into since the talent pool for bouldering and sport climbing is similar and the training methods in each discipline are also both similarly advanced. Jakob waltzes up 9b+ routes but got shut down by Sleepwalker 8C+, so it's not all one way traffic of multi-disciplinary climbers having an easier time with top end bouldering.

2. Will is even better at bouldering than he is at sport climbing.

3. More time has passed since he transitioned to full time rock climbing, he is on particularly good form right now and happens to be focusing on bouldering. He mentions that he's going to visit Stefano to try Excalibur, which seems to be a candidate for 9c. If he does well then I think we can just crown Will the king of climbing and forget the other points above   :bow:

I wouldn't call Jakob not quite doing an 8C+ boulder on his 3rd session "getting shut down". That said I would agree that it appears Will is better at bouldering to than sport.

Pffft. 8C+ only takes 2 days these days  ;)

I take your point.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on November 11, 2022, 07:01:34 pm
"Gradewise I think it's bottom end 8c+.  I definitely think it's harder than forgotten gem 8c, but easier than Alphane and Honey Badger".

To me that sounds like he thinks Alphane is 8c+.....

Or that he's potentially the best boulderer in the world right now and doesnt know his own strength. 8C in half an hour, 8C+ in 2 days, 9A in c.10 days (+ specific training on a replica). Seems reasonable. Cant wait until he tries something that's actually hard for him!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: AndyP on November 11, 2022, 07:06:45 pm
I think it could both be true that Alphane & Honey Badger are 9A, and that Bosi is on insane form and mistakenly thinks they are both 8c+.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 11, 2022, 07:09:44 pm
Amazing!! Could be the quickest ever send of an 8C+??

Seems likely. Some other contenders are Simon Lorenzi's Big Conviction (5 days, but links in to The Island which he had really dialed from doing Soudain) and Jimmy Webb on Creature from the Black Lagoon (6 days) and Carlo Traversi on the same (3 days). I think creature is in a link-up-y kinda roof though, so they might have spent time on the parts before?

There's a list to trawl through here if anyone has some time on their hands https://climbing-history.org/list/14/hard-boulder-problem-ascents
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on November 11, 2022, 09:34:47 pm
It would be interesting to know how the hardest boulders compare to the hardest routes. The Grand Illusion is now a consensus 8C+ boulder and Sean Bailey thought it was comparable to a 9a+/b route.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on November 11, 2022, 10:18:40 pm
It would be interesting to know how the hardest boulders compare to the hardest routes. The Grand Illusion is now a consensus 8C+ boulder and Sean Bailey thought it was comparable to a 9a+/b route.

He must be wrong, darth grader says hard 9b  :coffee:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on November 11, 2022, 10:42:02 pm
It would be interesting to know how the hardest boulders compare to the hardest routes. The Grand Illusion is now a consensus 8C+ boulder and Sean Bailey thought it was comparable to a 9a+/b route.

He must be wrong, darth grader says hard 9b  :coffee:

(Darth grader used very harsh boulder grades on the cruxes of routes to fit the model, imho.)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on November 11, 2022, 10:44:01 pm
Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm not getting the joke here, what's so funny?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MischaHY on November 11, 2022, 11:08:15 pm
Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm not getting the joke here, what's so funny?

The one truth was the G and without his mysterious displays of 5am power we are all lost and at the mercy of grading consensus, forever to be taunted by the shadowplay. Maniacal laughter is all that remains  :ohmy:

(I also don't get it but it's UKB so Pain au Chocolat)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on November 12, 2022, 10:23:59 am
It would be interesting to know how the hardest boulders compare to the hardest routes. The Grand Illusion is now a consensus 8C+ boulder and Sean Bailey thought it was comparable to a 9a+/b route.

He must be wrong, darth grader says hard 9b  :coffee:

You forgot the not-on-a-rope grade adjustment, which is required to make things fit (genuinely)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on November 12, 2022, 10:38:03 am
It would be interesting to know how the hardest boulders compare to the hardest routes. The Grand Illusion is now a consensus 8C+ boulder and Sean Bailey thought it was comparable to a 9a+/b route.

He must be wrong, darth grader says hard 9b  :coffee:

You forgot the not-on-a-rope grade adjustment, which is required to make things fit (genuinely)

For sure. I agree on this. (And it is surprising that seemingly only beginners know that there is a difference between what one can do on a toprope versus on lead! It is so much easier to climb when one does not has to stop in the middle of sequences to fiddle with the rope ... I rediscovered this when I went back to my hometown where all the routes in the gym are graded for toprope, and they all felt exactly one letter grade harder than normal.)

From my vague memory the description of the routes in this document
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GR5O_9V3yJFU-nn295y0ImuoTl8lJazX/view  (last page)
which was used to fit the model looked pretty harsh; but now when I re-read it I find that I agree on the breakdown on the routes I am familiar with.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on November 12, 2022, 03:39:01 pm
Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm not getting the joke here, what's so funny?

My reading is that if everyone has done this 8C+, far more than any other, then it's probably soft. Like the most repeated routes at any crag. I agree BTW, it was exactly my thought when I read that.

Please feel free to correct if I've misinterpreted.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on November 12, 2022, 04:00:15 pm
It would be interesting to know how the hardest boulders compare to the hardest routes. The Grand Illusion is now a consensus 8C+ boulder and Sean Bailey thought it was comparable to a 9a+/b route.

He must be wrong, darth grader says hard 9b  :coffee:

You forgot the not-on-a-rope grade adjustment, which is required to make things fit (genuinely)

For sure. I agree on this. (And it is surprising that seemingly only beginners know that there is a difference between what one can do on a toprope versus on lead! It is so much easier to climb when one does not has to stop in the middle of sequences to fiddle with the rope ... I rediscovered this when I went back to my hometown where all the routes in the gym are graded for toprope, and they all felt exactly one letter grade harder than normal.)

From my vague memory the description of the routes in this document
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GR5O_9V3yJFU-nn295y0ImuoTl8lJazX/view  (last page)
which was used to fit the model looked pretty harsh; but now when I re-read it I find that I agree on the breakdown on the routes I am familiar with.

True. I also find the difference is much starker between lead onsight and toprope insight Vs routes on redpoint go.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on November 12, 2022, 04:51:32 pm
Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm not getting the joke here, what's so funny?

My reading is that if everyone has done this 8C+, far more than any other, then it's probably soft. Like the most repeated routes at any crag. I agree BTW, it was exactly my thought when I read that.

Please feel free to correct if I've misinterpreted.

This makes no sense to me. To come back to my point about some problems being easier to do; Sleepwalker is in a desert where it hardly ever rains, is easily workable with a couple of pads, is the type of problem that rewards a persistent approach, and has easy access with a lengthy season of conditions.

If you're a climber in the US capable of climbing 8C+ (and there are a lot of them) then it's the obvious one to go for. So they do. None of that makes it 8C. Unless you think all those extraneous factors should be considered when grading things, which I don't.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on November 12, 2022, 05:21:21 pm
Matt Fultz logged it as soft on 8a.nu, it's also many peoples first 8c+ so like bosi aidan etc on alphane they would struggle to comment surely?

Nalle struggled to span the sequence used by woods etc, so could have been harder for him?

But probs the most confirmed at its grade regardless of the above I think?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on November 12, 2022, 07:01:25 pm
Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm not getting the joke here, what's so funny?

My reading is that if everyone has done this 8C+, far more than any other, then it's probably soft. Like the most repeated routes at any crag. I agree BTW, it was exactly my thought when I read that.

Please feel free to correct if I've misinterpreted.

This makes no sense to me. To come back to my point about some problems being easier to do; Sleepwalker is in a desert where it hardly ever rains, is easily workable with a couple of pads, is the type of problem that rewards a persistent approach, and has easy access with a lengthy season of conditions.

If you're a climber in the US capable of climbing 8C+ (and there are a lot of them) then it's the obvious one to go for. So they do. None of that makes it 8C. Unless you think all those extraneous factors should be considered when grading things, which I don't.

Those are fair points. I'm also not saying it's 8C (I clearly have no idea).

The bit of the original post that I disagree with is the hypothesis that it being the most repeated of a grade makes it the most confirmed and hence benchmark. I think instead it probably just means it's the easiest to do - whether that's because of access, climate etc. as you've mentioned, or because it's soft for the grade - but either way the conclusion is similar.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on November 12, 2022, 07:07:39 pm
Yeah I get that, I think we're kind of saying similar things. I wasn't suggesting it's a benchmark though, as a) I've clearly no idea and b) in my experience benchmarks are usually pretty flipping hard for their given grade!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on December 08, 2022, 08:12:34 am
Another day at the office with a flash of The Dagger and Dreamtime in the same day (and close on the flash according to his 8a.nu log!!)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on December 08, 2022, 09:23:14 am
Absurd, but also unsurprising.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on December 08, 2022, 09:43:22 am
Another day at the office with a flash of The Dagger and Dreamtime in the same day (and close on the flash according to his 8a.nu log!!)

Re-reading that it's not very clear. He flashed The Dagger, then got close to flashing Dreamtime but fell off after the crux. He did get Dreamtime done the same day though.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Ross Barker on December 08, 2022, 10:26:04 am
If he had succeeded, would that have been the first 8C flash? Jade was flashed by Ondra, and Catalan Witness The Fitness was flashed by Schubert, but these are both considered 8B+ now.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on December 08, 2022, 10:34:41 am
If he had succeeded, would that have been the first 8C flash? Jade was flashed by Ondra, and Catalan Witness The Fitness was flashed by Schubert, but these are both considered 8B+ now.

Yes think so.

I read Remus' post as that he'd flashed it! Surely only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on December 08, 2022, 10:50:15 am
I think ght dreamtime was now thought to be 8B+, or did that all get fixed again?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on December 08, 2022, 10:57:10 am
8C now I thought, didn't it break a bit hence going back up to the original grade?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on December 08, 2022, 10:59:11 am
Ahhaaaaa, I see. I suspect it was also being harshly graded back in the day when people thought 8C didn't exist!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Danny on December 08, 2022, 11:16:17 am
Absolutely ridonkulous from Bosi!  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on December 08, 2022, 11:20:50 am
The Dagger flash is pretty incredible, especially given comments like these

Dave Graham: "CrazYYY"
Daniel Woods: "3 days of war"
Carlo Traversi: "3rd day... Crazy and hard"

Always amazes me when people flash things that take other top climbers a significant amount of effort. Obviously there are huge factors like late repeats having more beta than FA/early repeats, and people having specialised styles, etc, but it's still a pretty incredible piece of climbing.

An alterative angle... multiple people saying soft 8B+, or even 8B. That's numberwang!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on December 08, 2022, 04:14:24 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cMHaAvGS-Y
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on December 08, 2022, 04:44:46 pm
I haven't seen much of Will climbing in that style (burly compression, heels), but he's clearly no slouch!

Excited to see what else he does if this is part of a longer trip. Has he even had time to get any training in since the previous visit? It feels only 2 minutes since he waltzed up Alphane!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on December 08, 2022, 04:57:49 pm
An alterative angle... multiple people saying soft 8B+, or even 8B.

Including Will from that video
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: ducko on December 08, 2022, 05:54:36 pm
It’s safe to say that British bouldering is in a strong place. The amount of people operating at the top end and very top end is mind boggling.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on December 08, 2022, 06:15:07 pm
It’s safe to say that British bouldering is in a strong place. The amount of people operating at the top end and very top end is mind boggling.

I agree with your overall point, but I think it's worth bearing in mind there's quite a big gap between Will, Aidan (and maybe some of the comp climbing youth when they decide to touch some rock) and the rest of the UK pack. Will and Aidan have done (quite a few!) more problems above 8C than every other British person combined.

https://climbing-history.org/list/3/strong-british-male-boulderers
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: gme on December 08, 2022, 06:22:29 pm
I think there is a bit of a gap between will and Aidan too. Definitely if you count routes.

Realised you specifically said boulderers but even than my money would go on Will.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on December 08, 2022, 06:35:52 pm
I think there is a bit of a gap between will and Aidan too. Definitely if you count routes.


Well yeah there’s definitely a gap if you include something one of them doesn’t do 😂
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: gme on December 08, 2022, 06:50:32 pm
Should get his arse into gear then.

Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on December 08, 2022, 08:12:27 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cMHaAvGS-Y
Putting the lower / less showy grade in the big caption is worth waddage in itself  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on December 08, 2022, 09:28:16 pm
It’s safe to say that British bouldering is in a strong place. The amount of people operating at the top end and very top end is mind boggling.

I agree with your overall point, but I think it's worth bearing in mind there's quite a big gap between Will, Aidan (and maybe some of the comp climbing youth when they decide to touch some rock) and the rest of the UK pack. Will and Aidan have done (quite a few!) more problems above 8C than every other British person combined.

https://climbing-history.org/list/3/strong-british-male-boulderers

I don't think there's a big gap between Will and Aidan although Will is definitely better at flashing boulders. I think Aidan maybe undersells himself by sandbagging a lot of his hardest ascents, hardly any of his FA's ever seem to get repeated, even the ones abroad where there's a lot more people climbing in the 8B+ to 8C range.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MischaHY on December 09, 2022, 09:04:01 am
It’s safe to say that British bouldering is in a strong place. The amount of people operating at the top end and very top end is mind boggling.

I agree with your overall point, but I think it's worth bearing in mind there's quite a big gap between Will, Aidan (and maybe some of the comp climbing youth when they decide to touch some rock) and the rest of the UK pack. Will and Aidan have done (quite a few!) more problems above 8C than every other British person combined.

https://climbing-history.org/list/3/strong-british-male-boulderers

I don't think there's a big gap between Will and Aidan although Will is definitely better at flashing boulders. I think Aidan maybe undersells himself by sandbagging a lot of his hardest ascents, hardly any of his FA's ever seem to get repeated, even the ones abroad where there's a lot more people climbing in the 8B+ to 8C range.

The spectre of the G still reaching down through the generations?  ;)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on December 09, 2022, 09:49:10 am
https://news.sky.com/story/south-park-is-latest-target-lance-armstrong-10465629

I don't know what to believe in any more!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on December 12, 2022, 05:05:09 pm
Flash Flood Flash (8B)

According to IG (can't link from work).
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: ferret on December 12, 2022, 05:22:26 pm
During the last six weeks, Will has flashed seven boulders 8A to 8B (+) as well as redpointed nine boulders 8A to 9A.

Unstoppable!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: ferret on February 09, 2023, 09:11:26 pm
More flashing ridiculousness.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cocqw_OtMz8/?hl=en
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on February 09, 2023, 10:02:26 pm
He's gotta be one of the best all rounders at this point surely?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on February 09, 2023, 11:17:27 pm
He's gotta be one of the best all rounders at this point surely?

What's he done on the Ben in winter? Absolutely nothing and he's Scottish too. Punter
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duncan campbell on February 10, 2023, 08:57:14 am
Haha good tongue in cheek point made.

Will is really really good (obvs) and obvs very good at bouldering and sport climbing but is he an all rounder?

Dave Mac is the most obvious top all-rounder for me; 9a sport, 8B+ (is practice of the wild 8C?) Hardest trad head points in the country, probably also o/sed the odd E7, grade XII winter stuff + has done some hard multipitch stuff.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Eddies on February 10, 2023, 09:00:22 am
8B+ Flash, IN A DOWN JACKET!!!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on February 10, 2023, 09:12:19 am
Haha good tongue in cheek point made.

Will is really really good (obvs) and obvs very good at bouldering and sport climbing but is he an all rounder?

Dave Mac is the most obvious top all-rounder for me; 9a sport, 8B+ (is practice of the wild 8C?) Hardest trad head points in the country, probably also o/sed the odd E7, grade XII winter stuff + has done some hard multipitch stuff.

It's clearly Ondra for me. Sport, boulder, comp, crack and trad all at much higher levels than Dave, even if he hasn't climbed XII on the Ben... yet! 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on February 10, 2023, 09:22:20 am
Haha good tongue in cheek point made.

Will is really really good (obvs) and obvs very good at bouldering and sport climbing but is he an all rounder?

Dave Mac is the most obvious top all-rounder for me; 9a sport, 8B+ (is practice of the wild 8C?) Hardest trad head points in the country, probably also o/sed the odd E7, grade XII winter stuff + has done some hard multipitch stuff.

It's clearly Ondra for me. Sport, boulder, comp, crack and trad all at much higher levels than Dave, even if he hasn't climbed XII on the Ben... yet!

At the risk of descending into UKC style debate....I guess it depends on how you define hardest trad?  Do you more heavily weight difficulty over danger?  DMac has clearly done some of the hardest bold/serious trad in the world, whereas Ondra waltzed up the hardest big wall in world (but it's fairly safe).  Dave doesn't travel much, but I do wonder how he'd get on on something like the dawn wall. I was actually mega impressed Adam managed it with so little fuss - just goes to show what a few grades in hand does for you!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on February 10, 2023, 09:47:14 am
Haha good tongue in cheek point made.

Will is really really good (obvs) and obvs very good at bouldering and sport climbing but is he an all rounder?

Dave Mac is the most obvious top all-rounder for me; 9a sport, 8B+ (is practice of the wild 8C?) Hardest trad head points in the country, probably also o/sed the odd E7, grade XII winter stuff + has done some hard multipitch stuff.

It's clearly Ondra for me. Sport, boulder, comp, crack and trad all at much higher levels than Dave, even if he hasn't climbed XII on the Ben... yet!

At the risk of descending into UKC style debate....I guess it depends on how you define hardest trad?  Do you more heavily weight difficulty over danger?  DMac has clearly done some of the hardest bold/serious trad in the world, whereas Ondra waltzed up the hardest big wall in world (but it's fairly safe).  Dave doesn't travel much, but I do wonder how he'd get on on something like the dawn wall. I was actually mega impressed Adam managed it with so little fuss - just goes to show what a few grades in hand does for you!

Don't get me wrong, I think Dave is great and rate him highly. I particularly liked the video he just released showing some of his recent winter ascents.

It's completely subjective whether danger or difficulty are more impressive. Danger is also relative to a climbers skill level; if I were to try and onsight E6 with limited trad experience it would be very dangerous! Whilst I find Ondra's ascent of the Dawn Wall more impressive than D.Mac's E11's, I rate Honnold's ascent of El Cap above his 9a sport climbs (but perhaps not as highly as Silence or Burden of Dreams...) I don't think there's any science here, it's just whatever takes your fancy, but I think Ondra would piss Echo Wall if he wanted to.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on February 10, 2023, 11:01:11 am
As everyone's said, what counts as being an "all rounder" is in the eye of the beholder, presumably most people into alpinism or big walls would say that just being good at boulder/sport/trad/scottish winter didn't count as you need to be good at alpinism or big walling... People into onsighting would say you need to be good at onsighting... etc.

I guess in my head it makes sense to talk about all round climbing (where you probably need to climb cold snowy things but still also bosh out 9a) and all round "rock climbing", which lets you exclude snow/ice/winterneering but should probably cover boulder, sport (short and long routes, RP and OS), trad (RP and OS), multipitch sport, and multipitch trad.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duncan campbell on February 10, 2023, 12:31:17 pm
Haha good tongue in cheek point made.

Will is really really good (obvs) and obvs very good at bouldering and sport climbing but is he an all rounder?

Dave Mac is the most obvious top all-rounder for me; 9a sport, 8B+ (is practice of the wild 8C?) Hardest trad head points in the country, probably also o/sed the odd E7, grade XII winter stuff + has done some hard multipitch stuff.

It's clearly Ondra for me. Sport, boulder, comp, crack and trad all at much higher levels than Dave, even if he hasn't climbed XII on the Ben... yet! 

Ah yeah - sorry was thinking Brits and true “all-rounder”.

Tbh quite a few contenders and some variety within that! If we wanted to go to trumps style we should probs do another thread.

I was more just contending that I didn’t think bouldering and sport climbing made an all-rounder. But maybe those + comps is the way all rounders are going? (Let’s hope not!)

Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on February 10, 2023, 01:10:10 pm
Rock climbing is a lot harder than ice climbing, mixed climbing, adventurous hiking and aid climbing. Usually, the best rock climbers quickly raise to the top of every other form of climbing soon after trying it. (Didn't Midtbø flash the semi-final route in the world cup of ice climbing with running beta the first time he had axes in his hand or something? He would have timed out as he took forever. There was a video).  That's why we think the best rock climbers are the best all round climbers.

Also, climbing is a lot harder than putting in bits.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on February 10, 2023, 01:15:20 pm
...whereas Ondra waltzed up the hardest big wall in world (but it's fairly safe).

Minor point, but I think the dawn wall is actually pretty spicy in a lot of places. There's pitches of 8b and 8b+ protected by heads and other such aid climbing shit, that sounds pretty E9 to me! Obviously not the top level.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on February 10, 2023, 01:17:46 pm
...whereas Ondra waltzed up the hardest big wall in world (but it's fairly safe).

Minor point, but I think the dawn wall is actually pretty spicy in a lot of places. There's pitches of 8b and 8b+ protected by heads and other such aid climbing shit, that sounds pretty E9 to me! Obviously not the top level.

It is safe for Ondra, as he never falls on 8b-terrain, if he can hang on a pecker or copperhead every ten meter
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: petejh on February 10, 2023, 07:52:17 pm
Rock climbing is a lot harder than ice climbing, mixed climbing, adventurous hiking and aid climbing. Usually, the best rock climbers quickly raise to the top of every other form of climbing soon after trying it. (Didn't Midtbø flash the semi-final route in the world cup of ice climbing with running beta the first time he had axes in his hand or something? He would have timed out as he took forever. There was a video).  That's why we think the best rock climbers are the best all round climbers.

Also, climbing is a lot harder than putting in bits.

Looking at it inversely, some of the best mixed climbers are relatively ordinary rock climbers and you could say the same for some of the most accomplished alpinists. So, clearly the skills aren't directly transferrable as you suggest.

You're undoubtedly wrong about mixed climbing. Either you don't do any mixed climbing, or perhaps you've messed around with some bolted dry-tooling, which isn't mixed climbing. Ondra or a.n.other famous rock wad would be at high risk of spannering themself if they got on a grade X mixed route in Scotland with zero experience of mixed climbing. I'd actually bet my year's wages* he couldn't get up such a route without first spending time learning the craft.
 
You're also somewhat wrong about ice climbing. The example you quote mistakes a totally sanitised unrealistic competition route for hard ice climbing - a comp route isn't a serious grade 7 pillar or ephemeral smear, both of which require ultimate precision and delicacy with essentially no reliable gear.

That doesn't mean either styles are physically comparable to grade 9 sport, they aren't anywhere near. But they aren't 'easier' either.  Just different and not transferrable. Happy to clear that up for you :)


* I'm retired
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: thunderbeest on February 13, 2023, 06:31:57 am
Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm not getting the joke here, what's so funny?

My reading is that if everyone has done this 8C+, far more than any other, then it's probably soft. Like the most repeated routes at any crag. I agree BTW, it was exactly my thought when I read that.

Please feel free to correct if I've misinterpreted.

This makes no sense to me. To come back to my point about some problems being easier to do; Sleepwalker is in a desert where it hardly ever rains, is easily workable with a couple of pads, is the type of problem that rewards a persistent approach, and has easy access with a lengthy season of conditions.

If you're a climber in the US capable of climbing 8C+ (and there are a lot of them) then it's the obvious one to go for. So they do. None of that makes it 8C. Unless you think all those extraneous factors should be considered when grading things, which I don't.

Do you reckon that's shy there's more bouldering happening at the end of the scale than sport climbing? Because it's "easier" with logistics?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Johnny Brown on February 13, 2023, 08:19:41 am
As Caff said of winter climbing, ‘the crux is affording all the gear’.

I think jwi had his tongue at least slightly in his cheek there, and I could put up a spirited argument either way (esp with regard to ‘putting in bits’), but I suspect there’s some truth in his statement if for no other reason that the numbers of people and hours spent participating must be 100x that for rock climbing as winter. So of course the top level is likely to be higher. Whether skills transfer is best settled empirically. Motivation is highly significant.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: petejh on February 13, 2023, 03:26:34 pm
Stop it JB, your use of reason and facts to counter my viewpoint is making me feel upset and excluded.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Andy W on February 19, 2023, 06:13:21 pm
Will Bosi says about Shadow Play ... "pretty sure it will go"

https://youtu.be/Y7AoI8zN6cA
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: AMorris on February 19, 2023, 06:44:20 pm
Bit of a different message from the ones we have heard before. I thought it was supposed to be utterly unclimbable by any human past or present, thus proving John to be a liar and a fraud. Interesting...  :worms: (at this point, can we just change the can of worms emoji to be a little jpeg of Johns smiling face?)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on February 19, 2023, 07:58:11 pm
Bosi will do it and on the day he does Shark will receive an email with a vid of Gaskins doing it. He just wanted to be taken at his word. Sometimes a reasonable man must do unreasonable things.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on February 19, 2023, 08:27:35 pm
Will Bosi says about Shadow Play ... "pretty sure it will go"

Worth noting that what he actually says is "if you can find the feet to get into it [a shitty three finger undercut], Im pretty sure it'd go".
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on February 19, 2023, 09:13:07 pm
In the comments he's replied to someone saying "that line is possible for sure"...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Andy W on February 19, 2023, 09:41:10 pm
Will Bosi says about Shadow Play ... "pretty sure it will go"

Worth noting that what he actually says is "if you can find the feet to get into it [a shitty three finger undercut], Im pretty sure it'd go".

Its not what he says though is it?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on February 19, 2023, 10:03:11 pm
"if you can find the feet to actually get tension into it [a shitty three finger undercut], Im pretty sure it'd go".

So close enough!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Danny on February 19, 2023, 11:51:52 pm
More interesting to me is his recent stories trying the Burden replica. Looking good, but Raboutou looking better still on the real thing in utterly wank conditions. Really fascinating to see various wads invest so much in it.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on February 20, 2023, 07:57:53 am
More interesting to me is his recent stories trying the Burden replica. Looking good, but Raboutou looking better still on the real thing in utterly wank conditions. Really fascinating to see various wads invest so much in it.

Hasn't Will only had 3 sessions on it? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bit harder than the real thing either, I just can't imagine plastic having as much friction as rock.

Shawn does look the favourite for the first repeat though!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2023, 08:46:08 am
Perhaps the replica is a touch harder. Makes sense from the armchair. But yes, the money is on Shawn at this point.

Pretty sure Hukkataival doesn't cut/rotate on that first move when he does it, so it's pretty impressive to see Shawn doing just that.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on February 20, 2023, 08:54:23 am
Height / reach thing maybe? Seems Nalle is 1.74m, Shawn is 1.34M? (random google so could be wrong)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on February 20, 2023, 09:07:58 am
He's def more than 1.34!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on February 20, 2023, 09:09:48 am
He was 1.34 when he was 11 years maybe. A bit shorter than 170 cm?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: M1V0 on February 20, 2023, 09:12:07 am
Height / reach thing maybe? Seems Nalle is 1.74m, Shawn is 1.34M? (random google so could be wrong)

Shawn at 4 foot 5? Guess he must just have an ape of +45...

Maybe he just stands closer to the camera when there's other in the shot to make them seem similar sized.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on February 20, 2023, 09:36:35 am
Height / reach thing maybe? Seems Nalle is 1.74m, Shawn is 1.34M? (random google so could be wrong)

Shawn at 4 foot 5? Guess he must just have an ape of +45...

Maybe he just stands closer to the camera when there's other in the shot to make them seem similar sized.

Shawn "Tom Cruise" Rabattou?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on February 20, 2023, 09:53:32 am
Like I said, random google. I thought it seemed unlikely.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: shark on February 20, 2023, 10:22:02 am
Bosi will do it and on the day he does Shark will receive an email with a vid of Gaskins doing it. He just wanted to be taken at his word. Sometimes a reasonable man must do unreasonable things.

Might explain the package he gave me with “Not to be opened until
Shadowplay is repeated” on the front
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MischaHY on February 20, 2023, 10:52:35 am
I find it interesting how the dialogue around Shadowplay has evolved because you've now got both Will and Aidan saying it would be possible (although Aidan said 'harder than burden' so not quite as confident as Will). Regardless of the history it looks totally next level and would be amazing to see it climbed. Those undercuts look so savage.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bonjoy on February 20, 2023, 01:08:48 pm
Have to say it looks both grim and snappy. Kind of hard to imagine anyone investing the time into such a line, especially if it's likely to break, and involve endless split tips. There are certainly lots more inspiring unclimbed bits of steep rock out there. It's  not as if an ascent would change anything regards JG's claim either. Of course it would be interesting, but I don't think it will happen personally.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: AndyP on February 20, 2023, 01:20:41 pm
Bosi does seem to enjoy really really hard lines on grimy choss though...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MarkJ on March 07, 2023, 09:45:40 pm
More crushing :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP5AD_M2dE4
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on March 07, 2023, 09:57:51 pm
Some top grinning going on there ;D
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on March 15, 2023, 08:13:06 pm
Will Bosi says about Shadow Play ... "pretty sure it will go"

https://youtu.be/Y7AoI8zN6cA

More deets in the latest jam crack: the holds are worse than burden of dreams and it's steeper. Almost certainly harder than burden.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 16, 2023, 09:26:52 am
Doing an insta live on Burden now!!!!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on March 16, 2023, 09:34:26 am
what a time to be alive
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on March 16, 2023, 09:36:48 am
https://www.instagram.com/will_bosi/live/

Complete with some quality shit posting in the comments!

Quote
I saw gaskins do this in a couple goes, climbed it as a vague series of lay aways
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on March 16, 2023, 09:45:50 am
4 out of 5 moves done in a handful of goes each!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: cofe on March 16, 2023, 09:48:26 am
Work just took a back seat.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on March 16, 2023, 09:54:52 am
All the moves done
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: 36chambers on March 16, 2023, 09:57:30 am
can you imagine the scenes if he got up it in his first session whilst live streaming the whole thing
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: steveri on March 16, 2023, 10:03:13 am
Damn it, turn us off and take a rest. Works for me on 6B.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jakaitch on March 16, 2023, 10:17:00 am
Looks like the weather is actually on his side too
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on March 16, 2023, 10:21:09 am
Hopefully Aidan and Shawn, and someone with more than a phone to film on, are on their way there!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on March 16, 2023, 10:23:17 am
Weather looked lovely. Will's vibe is nice, the beard suits him. I wish one could turn chat comments OFF on PC.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 16, 2023, 10:31:25 am
God that was so fucking cool.

In summary for anyone who missed it:

- 1st move 3rd go
- 2nd move 2nd go
- 3rd & 4th move flash
- 5th move 3rd go
- All moves done in about 25 mins

Was able to use a drop knee to shake out both hands on the 4th move.

Crux is getting the first move solidly enough to then do the foot moves and the second hand move successfully.

Basically, he's a bit handy isn't he?!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on March 16, 2023, 10:33:59 am
That was awesome. Loved how psyched he just seemed generally.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on March 16, 2023, 10:37:34 am
Live recording  has now popped up on his feed, hopefully Lattice saw the comments about paying for his data 😄
https://www.instagram.com/tv/Cp2J4e4O-Ko/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: warmonke on March 16, 2023, 11:14:36 am
I guess all the replica training's paid off then, Shadowplay replica's probably in progress down the 3D-printers as we speak
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on March 16, 2023, 11:17:05 am
Was able to use a drop knee to shake out both hands on the 4th move.


As a card carrying member of lead climber's association I approve of doing shakeouts on a five move boulder.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: grimer on March 16, 2023, 11:20:24 am
Here is Will on Jam Crack. I recommend skipping the first 20 minutes or so

http://www.niallgrimes.com/jam-crack-climbing-podcast
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on March 16, 2023, 11:54:54 am
Here is Will on Jam Crack. I recommend skipping the first 20 minutes or so

http://www.niallgrimes.com/jam-crack-climbing-podcast

Really enjoyed this one, segment at the end about his diet is class!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on March 16, 2023, 12:00:10 pm
He stated in the livestream that the replica is a lot harder meaning the hardest boulder in the world is now at lattice HQ.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on March 16, 2023, 12:04:45 pm
He stated in the livestream that the replica is a lot harder meaning the hardest boulder in the world is now at lattice HQ.

Let’s not get carried away by some bits of plastic 😄
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: duncan on March 16, 2023, 12:43:06 pm
Here is Will on Jam Crack. I recommend skipping the first 20 minutes or so

http://www.niallgrimes.com/jam-crack-climbing-podcast

Really enjoyed this one, segment at the end about his diet is class!

Enjoyed this too.

Diet seems unremarkable for an Italian-Scotsman! (I might be presuming here…)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on March 16, 2023, 01:28:03 pm
He stated in the livestream that the replica is a lot harder meaning the hardest boulder in the world is now at lattice HQ.

It's only the hardest if someone does it. I could knock something up on my board at home that is harder.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on March 16, 2023, 01:54:05 pm
Glad to know people get what a joke is  :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on March 16, 2023, 02:49:39 pm
Something followed by an icon? 😄
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on March 16, 2023, 04:52:10 pm
https://youtu.be/OClobY3-3QQ

Lots of Bosiwad, but Ghisolfiwad too, looking very good for a first session.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JamieG on March 16, 2023, 06:05:47 pm
Interesting that whilst Burden is getting all this attention, Nalle has been very quiet. Not sure I've heard of anything from him for a few years now. Has he hung up the shoes? Or just fed up with the media circus?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on March 16, 2023, 06:23:13 pm
As far as I understand Nalle is still climbing at a very high level, but has become pretty recluse.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on March 16, 2023, 06:29:05 pm
Interesting that whilst Burden is getting all this attention, Nalle has been very quiet. Not sure I've heard of anything from him for a few years now. Has he hung up the shoes? Or just fed up with the media circus?

He kinda went on an anti capitalism thing, so maybe that’s why he’s off the socials?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: bolehillbilly on March 16, 2023, 06:48:08 pm

[/quote]

He kinda went on an anti capitalism thing, so maybe that’s why he’s off the socials?
[/quote]

Not sure about that, you'd think would just post content in lower case?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: ferret on March 16, 2023, 06:51:56 pm
There's a comment on the YouTube video reporting Will had his first session on the real thing and did all the moves in half an hour.
Sounds like it's on
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Neil F on March 16, 2023, 07:00:52 pm


He kinda went on an anti capitalism thing, so maybe that’s why he’s off the socials?
[/quote]

Quote
Not sure about that, you'd think would just post content in lower case?

Very good Mark, though best master the quotes system before your next punchline…  :P :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 16, 2023, 07:38:10 pm
There's a comment on the YouTube video reporting Will had his first session on the real thing and did all the moves in half an hour.
Sounds like it's on

Someone's not read all of the recent posts in this thread!  :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on March 16, 2023, 08:14:13 pm
I recommend skipping the first 20 minutes or so

 :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: petejh on March 16, 2023, 10:07:48 pm
Interesting that whilst Burden is getting all this attention, Nalle has been very quiet. Not sure I've heard of anything from him for a few years now. Has he hung up the shoes? Or just fed up with the media circus?

He kinda went on an anti capitalism thing, so maybe that’s why he’s off the socials?

When you've climbed the hardest grade it's fair enough that you get to use lower-case for font grades if you choose.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 17, 2023, 06:33:50 am
Interesting that whilst Burden is getting all this attention, Nalle has been very quiet. Not sure I've heard of anything from him for a few years now. Has he hung up the shoes? Or just fed up with the media circus?

He kinda went on an anti capitalism thing, so maybe that’s why he’s off the socials?

Plenty of recent photos of him on this Instagram account. Not sure who she is but she takes nice photos.

https://instagram.com/pixbyeisa?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Looks like he did a very hard dyno based problem last Rocklands season:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CiE3e2jjPG6/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: mr chaz on March 17, 2023, 09:13:50 am
live streaming again for those interested
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jakaitch on March 17, 2023, 12:23:16 pm
Interesting that whilst Burden is getting all this attention, Nalle has been very quiet. Not sure I've heard of anything from him for a few years now. Has he hung up the shoes? Or just fed up with the media circus?

He kinda went on an anti capitalism thing, so maybe that’s why he’s off the socials?

Plenty of recent photos of him on this Instagram account. Not sure who she is but she takes nice photos.

https://instagram.com/pixbyeisa?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Looks like he did a very hard dyno based problem last Rocklands season:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CiE3e2jjPG6/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Completely off topic but looks like hes no longer on la sportiva either
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Lopez on March 17, 2023, 10:35:23 pm
live streaming again for those interested

Scrollable vid for those of us with adhd (massive link)

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/v/t50.2886-16/10000000_1600500937041127_5172504011397076310_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InZ0c192b2RfdXJsZ2VuLjUwNC5pZ3R2LmRlZmF1bHQiLCJxZV9ncm91cHMiOiJbXCJpZ193ZWJfZGVsaXZlcnlfdnRzX290ZlwiXSJ9&_nc_ht=instagram.flhr13-1.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=yPPiynOaupUAX8DTQgI&edm=AOmX9WgBAAAA&vs=18000942724642774_983292132&_nc_vs=HBksFQAYJEdJQ1dtQURucE5DcHBhOEZBRllWbTBiX2JNaEhicUNCQUFBRhUAAsgBABUAGCRHSUNXbUFCUzRFcVpSWTBBQUVFOXRxQTRnRUFaYnFDQkFBQUYVAgLIAQAoABgAGwGIB3VzZV9vaWwBMRUAACb%2BuI76hP%2BSQBUCKAJDMywXQLyQrpeNT98YEmRhc2hfYmFzZWxpbmVfMl92MREAdewHAA%3D%3D&_nc_rid=b68f387a03&ccb=7-5&oh=00_AfCMD099C5agOML_xWgxwDQijt549TJd0MjMDl7ydMIwEg&oe=6416BE6E&_nc_sid=2be895
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: sirlockoff on March 18, 2023, 02:42:19 am
that heel beta looked well bomber, and he figured out a legit sequence well fast, was a bit surprised he didn't pursue it further, but from armchair, I wouldn't be surprised if he does send it next sessh or two with the heel beta and downgrades it to 8C+
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on March 18, 2023, 09:08:31 am
that heel beta looked well bomber, and he figured out a legit sequence well fast, was a bit surprised he didn't pursue it further,

I think he pulled the heel rubber bit off his shoe? Standard 5.10 build issue 😄
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: warmonke on March 18, 2023, 10:44:49 am
live streaming again for those interested

Scrollable vid for those of us with adhd (massive link)

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/v/t50.2886-16/10000000_1600500937041127_5172504011397076310_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InZ0c192b2RfdXJsZ2VuLjUwNC5pZ3R2LmRlZmF1bHQiLCJxZV9ncm91cHMiOiJbXCJpZ193ZWJfZGVsaXZlcnlfdnRzX290ZlwiXSJ9&_nc_ht=instagram.flhr13-1.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=yPPiynOaupUAX8DTQgI&edm=AOmX9WgBAAAA&vs=18000942724642774_983292132&_nc_vs=HBksFQAYJEdJQ1dtQURucE5DcHBhOEZBRllWbTBiX2JNaEhicUNCQUFBRhUAAsgBABUAGCRHSUNXbUFCUzRFcVpSWTBBQUVFOXRxQTRnRUFaYnFDQkFBQUYVAgLIAQAoABgAGwGIB3VzZV9vaWwBMRUAACb%2BuI76hP%2BSQBUCKAJDMywXQLyQrpeNT98YEmRhc2hfYmFzZWxpbmVfMl92MREAdewHAA%3D%3D&_nc_rid=b68f387a03&ccb=7-5&oh=00_AfCMD099C5agOML_xWgxwDQijt549TJd0MjMDl7ydMIwEg&oe=6416BE6E&_nc_sid=2be895
Both videos are on YouTube now too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW-PK2NPN4c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_a5vfvVmJk
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on March 18, 2023, 12:01:51 pm
I just chatted with the dog- and pad-provider. He says hi.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on March 20, 2023, 10:17:28 am
Session 3 now streaming, with appearance from Toru https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okCxLv6tS0A
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: warmonke on March 20, 2023, 10:51:01 am
Session 3 now streaming, with appearance from Toru https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okCxLv6tS0A
He's looking pretty strong!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on March 20, 2023, 11:28:59 am
Seems like doing the footwalk well enough to do the next hand move is now the only thing in the way of success. I don't think he's linked from the ground through the footwalk into the next move yet?

Shame about the shoes. Heel beta looks much easier.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on March 20, 2023, 11:37:47 am
Seems like doing the footwalk well enough to do the next hand move is now the only thing in the way of success.
I just fastforwarded the whole thing with no audio, but didn't he fall off the moves after that in isolation at the end of the vid?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on March 20, 2023, 11:45:51 am
Seems like doing the footwalk well enough to do the next hand move is now the only thing in the way of success.
I just fastforwarded the whole thing with no audio, but didn't he fall off the moves after that in isolation at the end of the vid?

Perhaps a bit grand of me to say "the only thing". He commented earlier that when fresh he can link the top 50% of the time.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 20, 2023, 12:18:55 pm
Seems like doing the footwalk well enough to do the next hand move is now the only thing in the way of success.
I just fastforwarded the whole thing with no audio, but didn't he fall off the moves after that in isolation at the end of the vid?

Perhaps a bit grand of me to say "the only thing". He commented earlier that when fresh he can link the top 50% of the time.

He did what must essentially be the stand, pulling on from after the 2nd hand move and the foot walk, first pull on of the video (don't know if he'd pulled on before that) and whilst still wearing his down jacket, so yeah not far off at all.

And through the first move and foot walk a bunch of times. Would not surprise if he just did it next session.

So cool to see it all unfolding in real time.

Interesting that he seems to have sacked off the heel beta other than  a cursory go at the end. I thought he'd have given it a go when fresh at the start of the session to get a better understanding of whether it actually works or not.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on March 20, 2023, 12:20:03 pm
He said that's because his shoe has broken to much in the video?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 20, 2023, 12:40:55 pm
Ah okay, I didn't have the audio on.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: abarro81 on March 20, 2023, 12:49:32 pm
He did what must essentially be the stand, pulling on from after the 2nd hand move and the foot walk, first pull on of the video
Good spot, I must have skipped through that bit
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MarkJ on March 20, 2023, 12:50:00 pm
If only I'd known about oatcakes and water 30 years ago ...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on March 20, 2023, 12:50:30 pm
If only I'd known about oatcakes and water 30 years ago ...

And Parmesan
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dac on March 20, 2023, 12:52:52 pm
It’s fair to say that if I was Mr. Adidas I would be couriering a fresh pair of shoes up to Finland post haste. If only to stop any potential ‘found some new heel beta, but a shitty shoe stopped play’ bad press.

Obviously that depends on both Mr. Adidas having any awareness of what is going on in the climbing section of the empire, and Mr Bosi’s shoes being a standard off the shelf pair.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: cofe on March 20, 2023, 01:19:38 pm
And through the first move and foot walk a bunch of times.

Cool. Missed that, but I only caught bits of the stream. That's a good indicator, surely.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on March 20, 2023, 01:34:57 pm
Seems like doing the footwalk well enough to do the next hand move is now the only thing in the way of success.
I just fastforwarded the whole thing with no audio, but didn't he fall off the moves after that in isolation at the end of the vid?

Perhaps a bit grand of me to say "the only thing". He commented earlier that when fresh he can link the top 50% of the time.

He did what must essentially be the stand, pulling on from after the 2nd hand move and the foot walk, first pull on of the video (don't know if he'd pulled on before that) and whilst still wearing his down jacket, so yeah not far off at all.

And through the first move and foot walk a bunch of times. Would not surprise if he just did it next session.

From my armchair it looks like there's a big difference in what happens next between doing the footwalk and doing the footwalk perfectly. When he's pulling on from stand he can place the foot perfectly. He hasn't done the footwalk well enough from the floor yet to open up the top. If he's worried about skin I wonder whether he can figure out how to finesse the foot moves before going from the floor.

He does look very very close though, and this is just speculation from a punter armchair.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: battery on March 20, 2023, 02:14:53 pm
I am loving watching the process in these videos and getting to know the characters. Those of you listening without sound are missing out.... Nalle will now in my head always be The Gruffalo !
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on March 20, 2023, 07:09:32 pm
He said that's because his shoe has broken to much in the video?

Does this mean he went on holiday with only one pair of shoes?!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Teaboy on March 20, 2023, 10:50:02 pm
Wasn’t sure where to put this but thought it was topical for this thread given I’m sure WB says on one of these livestreams that Terranova is one of the hardest things he’s tried. https://youtu.be/m9NMRYZySo8
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 21, 2023, 06:29:19 am
Seems like doing the footwalk well enough to do the next hand move is now the only thing in the way of success.
I just fastforwarded the whole thing with no audio, but didn't he fall off the moves after that in isolation at the end of the vid?

Perhaps a bit grand of me to say "the only thing". He commented earlier that when fresh he can link the top 50% of the time.

He did what must essentially be the stand, pulling on from after the 2nd hand move and the foot walk, first pull on of the video (don't know if he'd pulled on before that) and whilst still wearing his down jacket, so yeah not far off at all.

And through the first move and foot walk a bunch of times. Would not surprise if he just did it next session.

From my armchair it looks like there's a big difference in what happens next between doing the footwalk and doing the footwalk perfectly. When he's pulling on from stand he can place the foot perfectly. He hasn't done the footwalk well enough from the floor yet to open up the top. If he's worried about skin I wonder whether he can figure out how to finesse the foot moves before going from the floor.

He does look very very close though, and this is just speculation from a punter armchair.

Yes looks that way. I don't think he's done the 2nd move on the link yet, either foot slipping off on the footwalk or not quite maintaining tension going for the 2nd hand move.

I am loving watching the process in these videos and getting to know the characters. Those of you listening without sound are missing out.... Nalle will now in my head always be The Gruffalo !

It's flipping great isn't it. Will watch with sound later hopefully!

Very short sessions so far. Something like 45 mins, 2hrs and 1hr so far. Is that the nature of a fairly short problem, as opposed to a longer problem with more but easier moves to work?

Wasn’t sure where to put this but thought it was topical for this thread given I’m sure WB says on one of these livestreams that Terranova is one of the hardest things he’s tried. https://youtu.be/m9NMRYZySo8

Spotted that too. I don't know her name but judging from various videos she's very strong indeed!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on March 21, 2023, 07:00:30 am
She's a Czech wear called Jana https://climbing-history.org/climber/1431/jana-%C5%A1vecov%C3%A1
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: James Malloch on March 21, 2023, 10:09:58 am


Very short sessions so far. Something like 45 mins, 2hrs and 1hr so far. Is that the nature of a fairly short problem, as opposed to a longer problem with more but easier moves to work?


I might be wrong but i thought he mentioned something about the sun coming around on the first livestream that he did?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on March 21, 2023, 10:51:06 am
What a time to be alive.

Watching live in 4k from the comfort of home as a wad sessions the world's hardest boulder.

It's a far cry from a paragraph in a magazine that someone climbed route X last month, maybe with a grainy black and white photo of the crag from a distance, if you were lucky.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 21, 2023, 02:11:41 pm
Here is Will on Jam Crack. I recommend skipping the first 20 minutes or so

http://www.niallgrimes.com/jam-crack-climbing-podcast

Listened to this earlier. Brilliant. First 20 mins right up there with the best Jam Crack intro rambles and a great interview.

One particular point of interest was Bosi confirming definitively that he's retired from comps, and that the main driver of that was team bureaucracy. I think it was discussed on here a while ago, but that seems both incredible and really quite sad that one of the best climbers in the UK has been driven out of competing in that way.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on March 21, 2023, 04:36:07 pm
Here is Will on Jam Crack. I recommend skipping the first 20 minutes or so

http://www.niallgrimes.com/jam-crack-climbing-podcast

Listened to this earlier. Brilliant. First 20 mins right up there with the best Jam Crack intro rambles and a great interview.

One particular point of interest was Bosi confirming definitively that he's retired from comps, and that the main driver of that was team bureaucracy. I think it was discussed on here a while ago, but that seems both incredible and really quite sad that one of the best climbers in the UK has been driven out of competing in that way.

Agreed, it seems a real failure of the system. Though in Will's case it sounds like there were other (secondary) reasons for it not being a good fit.

Ultimately comps loss is our gain! (I do like comps but am much more interested in hard stuff being done outside).
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: lukeyboy on March 27, 2023, 10:25:57 pm
Anyone know how Will's getting on with BoD? Is he still out there?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on March 27, 2023, 10:48:41 pm
He's extended his trip to try and let some skin regrow. Doing some links of the top bit taped up. Played more with the heel beta and can't decide which is easier.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on March 28, 2023, 05:30:26 pm
Interview on 8a.nu mentions he's done it from after the first move and foot walk, to the top. Clearly far from a done deal, given doing the first move well enough to then do the foot walk correctly, so you're set for the 2nd hand move, seems to be the hardest bit. But still.

Apparently Stefano Ghisolfi and Shawn Rabatou joining the pad party this week too.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Sasquatch on March 28, 2023, 06:53:11 pm
Now it just needs Aiden to show up.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on March 28, 2023, 07:12:38 pm
Now it just needs Aiden to show up.

He’s said on his podcast recently that, due to Brits being limited for time in Europe now, he wants to combine Burden with a longer Scandi trip, rather than driving up from Swizz this time. I guess the team psyche might change his mind though!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: James Malloch on March 28, 2023, 08:32:48 pm
Now it just needs Aiden to show up.

He’s said on his podcast recently that, due to Brits being limited for time in Europe now, he wants to combine Burden with a longer Scandi trip, rather than driving up from Swizz this time. I guess the team psyche might change his mind though!

Sounded like he uses his van too rather than flying and it’s a long old drive up there!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on April 08, 2023, 01:29:31 pm
Surprised to not see the update here as we all sit at the edge of our seats.

He dropped the last move from the start. Looks like a send could be imminent!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on April 08, 2023, 05:07:12 pm
Bloody close wasn't it. He's definitely got it dialled. Just a matter of time, skin, connies etc
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 19, 2023, 06:16:17 pm
Nice little portrait, including some intriguing sequences of him on Violent New Breed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmmMbpCsSuA
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 19, 2023, 08:18:56 pm
I see from his stories he's been up to the Carrick Castle boulders today. Features in a lovely little video from Nick Brown, with Dan doing Marratime. That wall is utterly incredible, would be really cool to see the full thing done!

Not to mention Cruachan which must be one of the best 8Bs in the UK.

Lots of knees though.

https://youtu.be/re59GMVnVv8
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on April 19, 2023, 10:30:11 pm
That wall is utterly incredible, would be really cool to see the full thing done!

This quote on Dan's flickr...

Quote
The ramp line is currently impossible is my verdict, there is no opposition possible and the ramp slopes. when 8C is a warm up it might be worth a look.

Sounds like Will is the right person for the job!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: shurt on April 24, 2023, 10:47:44 pm
 Nice interview with Will on the Lattice podcast came out just over a week ago talking fresh from the send!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 25, 2023, 09:17:16 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmmMbpCsSuA

little film (advertorial?) here too, not much actual climbing content though. If you look closely there you may a product placement or two ;)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: warmonke on April 25, 2023, 10:06:12 am
Nice interview with Will on the Lattice podcast came out just over a week ago talking fresh from the send!
Also just done an interview with The Nugget

https://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/will-bosi
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Neil F on April 25, 2023, 10:24:20 am
Nice little portrait, including some intriguing sequences of him on Violent New Breed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmmMbpCsSuA

I was intrigued by the brief section on Free at Last at Dumbarton. I’d love to see a full film sometime -
don’t know if that’s likely, but the subject certainly merits one.

The thing that I noticed was that FaL appears to top out, whereas for some reason I’d been under the impression that the project finished at a lower off part way up this stunning wall.

If Will’s route goes all the way to the top, then I’m even more impressed!

Anyone know if this is the case (and if there will be a film about the route one day)?

So much more interesting than a little granite boulder in Finland…  :o ::) :chair:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on April 25, 2023, 10:37:50 am
You might be mixing up with Unfinished Symphony? It's left of the requiem crack and stops mid-face.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JJP on April 25, 2023, 12:08:14 pm

Ye think at the time it was first climbed it was suggested that the unfinished symphony line might be go to the top but that it would be v hard, not sure if anyone/ Bosi has had a look at it since though?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on April 25, 2023, 12:51:31 pm
I'd heard Rob Sutton was having a look, I presume it wasn't just the existing 2/3rds.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: steveri on April 25, 2023, 01:39:22 pm
Listened to the Will Bosi Jamcrack - nice - genuine rapport & insight and fun to compare the Burden of Dreams speculation with the outcome. Spoilers!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 25, 2023, 02:34:21 pm
You might be mixing up with Unfinished Symphony? It's left of the requiem crack and stops mid-face.

Ooh interesting, it sounds like I've got my wires crossed as I thought Free at Last was the finish to Unfinished Symphony. But it sounds like Free at last is a separate line? And unfinished symphony is still unfinished?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Neil F on April 25, 2023, 03:11:25 pm

Ooh interesting, it sounds like I've got my wires crossed as I thought Free at Last was the finish to Unfinished Symphony. But it sounds like Free at last is a separate line? And unfinished symphony is still unfinished?

What we need is a topo of this fine wall - anyone?

Also still wondering if FaL does go to the top, as that bit of the video isn’t very clear… - anyone?

Ta ;D
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on April 25, 2023, 03:25:03 pm
I'm sure at some point in a podcast Bosi mentioned there is still one project at Dumbarton which does an existing route followed by a heinous sounding 2 move 8C problem, is that Unfinished Symphony? Guess it must be.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 25, 2023, 03:28:58 pm
You might be mixing up with Unfinished Symphony? It's left of the requiem crack and stops mid-face.

Ooh interesting, it sounds like I've got my wires crossed as I thought Free at Last was the finish to Unfinished Symphony. But it sounds like Free at last is a separate line? And unfinished symphony is still unfinished?

No expert (only been once!) but looks like 2 pretty clear lines either side of Requiem?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/dumbarton_rock-189/unfinished_symphony-270143

(Unless I am confused)
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/dumbarton_rock-189/free_at_last-317039

Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Tom de Gay on April 25, 2023, 03:46:46 pm
Also still wondering if FaL does go to the top, as that bit of the video isn’t very clear… - anyone?

Quote
"Topping out felt absolutely incredible and this route is definitely a highlight for me." (https://www.planetmountain.com/en/news/climbing/will-bosi-is-free-at-last-at-dumbarton-in-scotland.html)

Seem to recall he said the other longstanding project had a super low percentage move high up the wall which he wasn't really psyched for.

Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: cheque on April 25, 2023, 04:48:40 pm
Just imagine how hard he’d be climbing if he was psyched for super low percentage moves.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JJP on April 25, 2023, 05:26:57 pm

Yes so unfinished symphony is to the left of Requiem crack as you look at the wall and actually moves over into the crack for a couple of hand moves before moving back left again - ye that line "remains unfinished".  Not sure if that is the project will bosi refers to but does kinda sound like it from those podcast quotes.

Free at last is on the right side of Requiem crack. 

 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: andy moles on April 25, 2023, 07:45:34 pm
I'd heard Rob Sutton was having a look, I presume it wasn't just the existing 2/3rds.

If that's right, good to hear he's still dark horsing it up.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 25, 2023, 08:59:42 pm
Good knowledge, thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 28, 2023, 04:40:33 pm
Will's added the hardest boulder to date to the Tor with The Wild South. He's given it 8C but also said "Probably my longest boulder project spanning many years and countless sessions could be 8C+".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf16iiXqOT8
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 28, 2023, 04:52:50 pm
Takes many years and countless sessions, on great form and then gives it 8C, with maybe a +?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on April 28, 2023, 04:56:54 pm
Takes many years and countless sessions, on great form and then gives it 8C, with maybe a +?

8C but you need to be able to climb Burden of Dreams in 2 weeks to do it.

Shades of "8B+ if you have 8C finger strength" from Aidan  :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on April 28, 2023, 05:06:48 pm
Takes many years and countless sessions, on great form and then gives it 8C, with maybe a +?

Tbf I think he was trying quite a different sequence for a long time (something about an 8C single move!) and recently discovered the knee which makes it a lot easier.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on April 28, 2023, 05:07:52 pm
big grades for bad beta :)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on April 28, 2023, 05:41:59 pm
He says here about the beta change changing the difficulty https://www.instagram.com/reel/CpAwRdxgMT9/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: monkoffunk on April 28, 2023, 05:46:05 pm
He sounded almost upset to find the knee!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: steveri on May 03, 2023, 11:56:31 am
Thought he was going to downclimb it for a while there  ::)
Think there's a bit in the Jamcrack podcast about the knee. Good episode though.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: warmonke on May 22, 2023, 04:32:47 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcB7xINW-ek

Will's now downgraded Aidan's sit to Isles of Wonder...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on May 22, 2023, 04:53:39 pm
Looks like he used the heel thag I believe aidan discounted and others had been trying? Good effort Will!

Wonder if he will get on much else whilst in Wales, probs getting too warm for it, but would be cool to see das pumpenhaus get a 2nd ascent.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: sirlockoff on May 22, 2023, 05:34:51 pm
will is heel master, is what I've noticed, and he can make impossible heels work with specific shoes
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: MarkJ on May 22, 2023, 06:30:39 pm
He's a wizard ! Good effort.

Actually it's quite breezy and a bit cooler today, here in N.Wales.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Teaboy on May 22, 2023, 10:12:39 pm
In the words of Sid Waddell
“When Alexander of Macedonia was 33, he cried salt tears because there were no more worlds to conquer … Will Bosi is 24”
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on May 22, 2023, 10:57:07 pm
 :strongbench: nuff said.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on May 23, 2023, 12:43:22 am
In the words of Sid Waddell
“When Alexander of Macedonia was 33, he cried salt tears because there were no more worlds to conquer … Will Bosi is 24”

I can see it now.


To World's End (9A+), Dumbarton Rock.
FA  W Bosi
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on June 06, 2023, 07:26:09 pm
Burden film is out

https://youtu.be/SlUw8X7xuq0

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on June 06, 2023, 09:13:31 pm
I found it highly entertaining that Bosi's 9A project trip diet is steak, sweet potato wedges and chocolate biscuits. Can we get Dave Mac to live on that for a month?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: moose on June 06, 2023, 09:41:11 pm
I found it highly entertaining that Bosi's 9A project trip diet is steak, sweet potato wedges and chocolate biscuits. Can we get Dave Mac to live on that for a month?

His Jam Crack podcast revealed a similarly non-D.Mac approved lifestyle.  IIRC, he mainly lives on oatcakes and Parmesan, with the odd deep-fried carb treat. Either the best diet is an n=1 concept that resists prescription, or he would be climbing F9B if he could buckle-down to a pure meat pattie regimen!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: petejh on June 06, 2023, 09:53:21 pm
It's just called being in your 20s. It matters what your put in your body over many decades. Read a story on continuous glucose monitoring today.. impact of various foods on blood sugar spikes etc etc.. my mind wandered to a thread on here years ago in which JB and Stu L mentioned how a crag diet of (iirc) haribos and coke never did them any harm.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on June 07, 2023, 07:26:39 am
We've all done it haven't we. I shudder at the thought of how much Coca Cola I used to drink when I was in my teens, and how many energy drinks I had after that!

Does seem a little odd that he's not improved his diet yet given he's trying to perform at the absolute highest level of the sport.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: James Malloch on June 07, 2023, 07:51:59 am
We've all done it haven't we. I shudder at the thought of how much Coca Cola I used to drink when I was in my teens, and how many energy drinks I had after that!

Does seem a little odd that he's not improved his diet yet given he's trying to perform at the absolute highest level of the sport.

Hopefully he’s being advised to enjoy it whilst he can! I miss the days where a whole cheesecake was just a standard snack…

Video was good, but theres so much more background which would have been cool to see (the replica, alternative betas which were tried, the livestreams etc).

I know it’s all in other content, but bringing it all together would have been nice.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: monkoffunk on June 07, 2023, 07:56:44 am
We've all done it haven't we. I shudder at the thought of how much Coca Cola I used to drink when I was in my teens, and how many energy drinks I had after that!

Does seem a little odd that he's not improved his diet yet given he's trying to perform at the absolute highest level of the sport.

Is it that odd given that he is performing at the absolute highest level of the sport?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on June 07, 2023, 08:19:36 am
Nice video. Very chill. Made me miss the north. Everything looked like home. The apartment building, the taiga, the granite.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SamT on June 07, 2023, 08:33:07 am

Nice little film.  And not a deck of cards/dice in sight.   Would have been funny if there was a little 'easter egg' pack of cards, or even better, some furry dice on the rear view mirror  :lol:.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: andy moles on June 07, 2023, 09:01:38 am
Does seem a little odd that he's not improved his diet yet given he's trying to perform at the absolute highest level of the sport.

My partner is a nutritionist, and sometimes remarks on the differences in literature about 'performance' nutrition compared to general long-term health nutrition. I won't butcher an attempt to sum this up in any detail, but as a very rough gist the former seems to be a bit more laissez-faire about additive-laden junk, within the context of lifestyle and when it's consumed etc.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on June 07, 2023, 09:33:10 am
He's Scottish, by national standards his diet is good!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: chicane on June 07, 2023, 11:33:01 am
 Will & bourdon were on ITV news at ten last night.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on June 07, 2023, 11:47:38 am
Does seem a little odd that he's not improved his diet yet given he's trying to perform at the absolute highest level of the sport.

My partner is a nutritionist, and sometimes remarks on the differences in literature about 'performance' nutrition compared to general long-term health nutrition. I won't butcher an attempt to sum this up in any detail, but as a very rough gist the former seems to be a bit more laissez-faire about additive-laden junk, within the context of lifestyle and when it's consumed etc.

Yes seen similar, e.g. eating donuts is actually totally fine from a performance perspective if you're then going go and actually use the energy, and may in fact be optimal given such foods tend to be lighter and easier on the stomach than "healthy" foods.

BUT

Is it that odd given that he is performing at the absolute highest level of the sport?

Fair point, just seems like an obvious thing to consider when you're trying to push your limits.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fultonius on June 07, 2023, 11:57:31 am
While her diet was, perhaps, a but more healthy, Janja also had a refreshingly lassaiz faire attitude to food. Maybe not stressing about it, and following what your body says takes one less stress out of the top performance game?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on June 07, 2023, 12:01:19 pm
Maybe not stressing about it, and following what your body says takes one less stress out of the top performance game?

I'd love to see someone try and convince Dave Brailsford of that.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on June 07, 2023, 01:01:41 pm
Will & bourdon were on ITV news at ten last night.
https://www.itv.com/watch/news/how-3d-printing-helped-one-man-scale-the-hardest-boulder-in-the-world/g0zl3xn

A fairly respectable, and not too cringey, report for non-climbing journalism . First outdoor boulder ascent covered by a British mainstream news outlet?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: sirlockoff on June 07, 2023, 01:06:38 pm

Nice little film.  And not a deck of cards/dice in sight.   Would have been funny if there was a little 'easter egg' pack of cards, or even better, some furry dice on the rear view mirror  :lol:.

maybe not intentional, but there was a crash pad that had 6 dots on it, reminded me a bit dice
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: mr chaz on June 07, 2023, 01:17:10 pm
Will & bourdon were on ITV news at ten last night.
https://www.itv.com/watch/news/how-3d-printing-helped-one-man-scale-the-hardest-boulder-in-the-world/g0zl3xn

A fairly respectable, and not too cringey, report for non-climbing journalism . First outdoor boulder ascent covered by a British mainstream news outlet?

Excellent! On the subject of replicas - the climbing community agreed unless Will climbed the boulder on his first try he hadn't done anything wrong  :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: dave k on June 07, 2023, 01:39:48 pm
Will & bourdon were on ITV news at ten last night.
https://www.itv.com/watch/news/how-3d-printing-helped-one-man-scale-the-hardest-boulder-in-the-world/g0zl3xn

A fairly respectable, and not too cringey, report for non-climbing journalism . First outdoor boulder ascent covered by a British mainstream news outlet?

Excellent! On the subject of replicas - the climbing community agreed unless Will climbed the boulder on his first try he hadn't done anything wrong  :lol:

Weird how they didn't show the replica set at 40 degrees at Lattice!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on June 07, 2023, 02:42:16 pm
While her diet was, perhaps, a but more healthy, Janja also had a refreshingly lassaiz faire attitude to food. Maybe not stressing about it, and following what your body says takes one less stress out of the top performance game?

Doesn’t Ondra also eat like that? Also heard he’s not averse to a good drinking sesh either!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on June 07, 2023, 03:01:09 pm
While her diet was, perhaps, a but more healthy, Janja also had a refreshingly lassaiz faire attitude to food. Maybe not stressing about it, and following what your body says takes one less stress out of the top performance game?

Doesn’t Ondra also eat like that? Also heard he’s not averse to a good drinking sesh either!

I don't think so. The only bit of info I remember about his diet implied he was mostly vegetarian, or at least pescatarian, and otherwise sounded very healthy indeed. Which, you know, for the best climber in the world shouldn't be a surprise?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: cheque on June 07, 2023, 03:13:40 pm
If you train or climb as often and as hard as the likes of yer Bosis and yer Garnbrets then not only can you eat the most calorific diet going, you need to.

I listened to the latter on Jam Crack and she said she ate whatever she liked and I thought “what the fuck am I playing at eating sensibly when she isn’t?” What I failed to factor in was that I’m a weekend warrior in my 40s with a full time desk job and I soon found myself leaving for what could be described as the trip of a lifetime as heavy as I’d ever been  :oops:. On said three week trip though I ate American portions supplemented with high fructose corn syrup-based filth every day just to keep going and still came back lighter than when I left. Also spent the best part of £2500 on dental work the following winter.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on June 07, 2023, 03:19:15 pm
While her diet was, perhaps, a but more healthy, Janja also had a refreshingly lassaiz faire attitude to food. Maybe not stressing about it, and following what your body says takes one less stress out of the top performance game?

Doesn’t Ondra also eat like that? Also heard he’s not averse to a good drinking sesh either!

I don't think so. The only bit of info I remember about his diet implied he was mostly vegetarian, or at least pescatarian, and otherwise sounded very healthy indeed. Which, you know, for the best climber in the world shouldn't be a surprise?

I don't doubt that he is, but in terms of pure physicality (strength and power at least), Bosi appears to be ahead. However, if the climbers at the top are meeting their energy requirements, I suspect that even going from a supposed poor diet to a good one, it wouldn't make a significant difference to performance in the short term. Longevity may be different....

And I say this as a full on diet nerd who has counted every calorie for about 15 years!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Mike Highbury on June 07, 2023, 03:28:36 pm
Maybe not stressing about it, and following what your body says takes one less stress out of the top performance game?

I'd love to see someone try and convince Dave Brailsford of that.

Well, cycling nutrition must have changed a great deal since DB stood down.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: sherlock on June 07, 2023, 08:19:33 pm
He's Scottish, by national standards his diet is good!
This^
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on June 08, 2023, 08:47:36 pm
Very nice film. When he did it the fingerswap seemed like sleight-of-finger it was so smooth.

I think Will has taken the crown (from Adam) for "Most endearing top climber in the world"  :wub:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: andy moles on June 09, 2023, 06:40:46 am

I think Will has taken the crown (from Adam) for "Most endearing top climber in the world"  :wub:

He could go the final mile for me by swapping some American lexicon (super bad, real instead of really, for sure in the middle of sentences) for more of his home vernacular. I mean he can't be expected to talk like a character in Trainspotting (ah cannae hold this fuckin grip man, passus the fan ya cunt), but a few incomprehensible central beltish outbursts to confuse the international audience would be the cherry on top :)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duma on June 09, 2023, 08:51:15 am
ah cannae hold this fuckin grip man, passus the fan ya cunt

LOOOOOL
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on June 09, 2023, 09:11:25 am
Definitely. Pings off a small foothold "och yah wee bawbag!" with a big beardy grin.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on June 09, 2023, 05:42:01 pm
He's posh Edinburgh though isn't he, nae from Leith (although Leith is nae whit it wis in the Trainspottin' era). 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Hoseyb on June 10, 2023, 09:35:18 am
Very nice film. When he did it the fingerswap seemed like sleight-of-finger it was so smooth.

I think Will has taken the crown (from Adam) for "Most endearing top climber in the world"  :wub:

My first thought on watching the film was nice music.

My second was " I bet no-one has climbed that crack "

I'm obviously an outlier.

Cool film  :yes:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: thunderbeest on June 10, 2023, 06:44:26 pm
But what would the E grade be if he put a piece of protection in there and had a rope? Not to mention the ground fall potential.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Johnny Brown on June 12, 2023, 01:25:25 pm
Quote
my mind wandered to a thread on here years ago in which JB and Stu L mentioned how a crag diet of (iirc) haribos and coke never did them any harm.

Coke must have been Maccy-Stu. But I'm still here, still struggling to see much difference between haribo at the crag and sachet goop race nutrition for runners/ cyclists. Except haribo tastes better and doesn't have annoying pseudo-science on the packaging.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on June 12, 2023, 01:47:28 pm
Wine Gums FTW. Perfect size, texture and sweetness to be consumed by the handful on the move.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JamieG on June 12, 2023, 01:52:04 pm
Wine Gums FTW. Perfect size, texture and sweetness to be consumed by the handful on the move.

I now have visions of you climbing one handed, stuffing wine gums in your mouth on every move.  ;D
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on June 12, 2023, 02:38:13 pm
Usually have a pocket full on winter routes and skiing / touring sometimes not far off! TBF I have them more for running and cycling events.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on June 12, 2023, 08:07:35 pm
I found it highly entertaining that Bosi's 9A project trip diet is steak, sweet potato wedges and chocolate biscuits. Can we get Dave Mac to live on that for a month?

I don't think steak and sweet potato wedges is unhealthy unless it's all you eat. I'd also wager he's way more strict with his diet during a training cycle Vs on a trip.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: scragrock on June 24, 2023, 11:35:44 am
No mention of the recent Inverness trip?  :tumble:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on June 25, 2023, 05:07:05 pm
Looks like bosi cleaned up at biblins, curious as to how he though the rh start compared to what he did.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on June 25, 2023, 05:58:58 pm
No mention of the recent Inverness trip?  :tumble:

No 9As no news.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on June 26, 2023, 08:24:33 am
UKB relies on on the ground reporters....
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: scragrock on June 26, 2023, 08:39:14 am
UKB relies on on the ground reporters....
Like Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on June 26, 2023, 09:50:45 am
Not sure his fluent German is any use in Inverness. "He said he doesn't like the grade but he'll go along with it"
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: scragrock on June 26, 2023, 10:14:46 am
Not sure his fluent German is any use in Inverness. "He said he doesn't like the grade but he'll go along with it"
Ha ha, i appreciate the Brass Eye call back :thumbsup:

For those who care, I believe Will and chums teamed up with Rhys and his brother Rubes for another look round Rooftown, will smashed Pete's wee project on the Wibble bloc which i can testify to being ridiculously hard, sending Neg Prog low and repeating Zero. They also hit Brin for a go at Big Chief {which Will thought was stiff for the grade at 8b!} and he flashed Kaiser{Stu's hard right-hand line on the Sussurus Bloc} which is very impressive with the current conditions.
Nice to see some of the harder lines in the Strath getting some much needed attention.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: steveri on June 26, 2023, 03:26:41 pm
The history books will have to be rewritten.
https://youtu.be/1Pr8xnNi7OM?t=24
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: James Malloch on January 17, 2024, 07:20:37 pm
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2NWk_1xRHw/

First session on Return of the sleepwalker, 8C+.

All moves done and one move off doing overlapping halves. What a beast!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: robertostallioni on January 17, 2024, 07:41:30 pm
Sounded to me like he'd only tried the stand?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: James Malloch on January 17, 2024, 08:11:27 pm
Sounded to me like he'd only tried the stand?

Oh yes, you’re right. ROTS is the sit, right? :chair:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on January 17, 2024, 08:21:31 pm
Good to see him absolutely rinsing the top. Looks like he's making faster progress than on Terranova...

Yet more speculation: I wonder whether the sloper/slot has gotten better over time? Seems like there's a lot of people sessioning it so I imagine it gets a lot of brushing, and it wouldn't take much to turn a shitty thin slot in to something a lot better.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Duncan campbell on January 18, 2024, 07:51:03 am
How long before someone gets a rotating mechanical brush on it?? Gotta save those elbows eh  :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on January 19, 2024, 03:27:09 pm
Sounds like he dropped the last move on sleepwalker (bumping to the jug) today, only 2 sessions in.

Ed: he actually dropped it a little earlier, with Rh in the slot and lh matching in to the sloper.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 19, 2024, 07:51:49 pm
He has 2 months there too, sounds promising for the low!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 19, 2024, 08:42:32 pm
Good to see him absolutely rinsing the top. Looks like he's making faster progress than on Terranova...

Yet more speculation: I wonder whether the sloper/slot has gotten better over time? Seems like there's a lot of people sessioning it so I imagine it gets a lot of brushing, and it wouldn't take much to turn a shitty thin slot in to something a lot better.

Carlo Traversi on the recent test piece podcast has said he thinks the slot has improved between trying it and says he thinks the brushing is the reason. Is at 1h30ish for those who are interested.

I was saying offline to Liam that Nalle barely gets 3f in and it looked like bosi was able to bump 4 in pretty comfortably, but I wondered if Nalle just had uber fat fingers.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on January 19, 2024, 09:50:39 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMIIffUMV8g&t=324s

Webb seems to get into the slot ok towards the end of this. Perhaps it's more of a height thing? It's also pretty funny how much Bosi looks like he's barely trying on his attempt compared to this (day 2 vs day 11). Next level. 
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 19, 2024, 10:00:11 pm
Can't tell if Jimmy has 3 or 4 in the slot tho....

Nalle has 3 which I guess is either finger size or the slot getting bigger over the years?

https://youtu.be/iPZ1w7tjo_M?si=qQ3SdUd1nYtgZ--k

Who knows though.

Either way bosi is making it look casual!

What do you mean by the height thing part? I thought the topic was the hold improving?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on January 19, 2024, 10:31:06 pm
I was thinking if Nalle shorter than the others he might not be able to get over the hold enough to get into the back of it, but after scanning that vid I realise his beta is totally different. Still, it seems he's going left hand into the best bit instead of right hand, so maybe it just doesn't fit as well that way? If Webb got into it ok on the FA and so have other early repeaters (there's loads of close up footage of Woods on ROTS) then it can't have changed that much if at all?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on January 21, 2024, 04:43:57 pm
I was just saying to someone today that it was inevitable he'd do it next session...

Classic downgrade too. The yanks will be fuming.

 :bow:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Teaboy on January 21, 2024, 05:02:52 pm
I can’t imagine they’ll give much of a shit.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 21, 2024, 05:15:56 pm
Somewhat hinted in the comments at terranova being 9a or I'm reading too much into it...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on January 21, 2024, 05:24:10 pm
Somewhat hinted in the comments at terranova being 9a or I'm reading too much into it...

Oh no. Does that predate Burden? If so can we just pretend it doesn’t exist so at least the first Font 9 is something cool!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 21, 2024, 05:29:06 pm
Not sure on the dates but I think so
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on January 21, 2024, 05:37:23 pm
Not sure on the dates but I think so

Terranova predates burden by quite a bit: Adam did Terranova in 2011 and Nalle did Burden in 2016. Given the time and effort he's put in to Terranova, and it's seemingly in a style that suits him, I wouldn't be surprised if he suggests an upgrade.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on January 21, 2024, 05:43:37 pm
Somewhat hinted in the comments at terranova being 9a or I'm reading too much into it...

What'd he say?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on January 21, 2024, 06:08:19 pm
The comments to https://www.instagram.com/p/C2Xf6BpreZ5/ has some verry funny content. You'd think that some of the commenters actually had done Sleepwalker themselves and are personally harmed because of the suggested downgrade :D

Better stop Mr. Pelorson at the border is my advice.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on January 21, 2024, 06:14:35 pm
I can’t imagine they’ll give much of a shit.

The comments to https://www.instagram.com/p/C2Xf6BpreZ5/ has some verry funny content. You'd think that some of the commenters actually had done Sleepwalker themselves and are personally harmed because of the suggested downgrade :D

Better stop Mr. Pelorson at the border is my advice.

 ;D
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Teaboy on January 21, 2024, 06:29:38 pm

 ;D

Yeah, you got me…..if you think funkieclimbr is representative of all American (sorry yank) climbers.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on January 21, 2024, 06:34:20 pm
That surrealistic rant had most likes of all comments! I'm sorely tempted to rot my brain by going to reddit and check the most upvoted comments.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 21, 2024, 06:36:36 pm
Somewhat hinted in the comments at terranova being 9a or I'm reading too much into it...

What'd he say?

He replies with some emojis to someone asking the question essentially... Take a look!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JamieG on January 21, 2024, 06:37:14 pm
Somewhat hinted in the comments at terranova being 9a or I'm reading too much into it...

What'd he say?

Some asked if sleepwalker is 8C and Nova is 8C, does that make terranova 9A? Bosi replied with the wide eyed emoji. 👀

Make of that what you will . . .
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: edshakey on January 21, 2024, 06:54:33 pm
He replies with some emojis to someone asking the question essentially... Take a look!

No Instagram account, so can't do that  :shrug:

Would not be a surprise if he does suggest an upgrade (if he ever does it). He's taken many opportunities to do everything short of actually saying it. Excited to see the fallout - this is already nicely entertaining  :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: joe-m on January 21, 2024, 06:57:55 pm
Winging yanks incoming
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on January 21, 2024, 06:59:17 pm
The comments to https://www.instagram.com/p/C2Xf6BpreZ5/ has some verry funny content. You'd think that some of the commenters actually had done Sleepwalker themselves and are personally harmed because of the suggested downgrade :D

Better stop Mr. Pelorson at the border is my advice.

This is amazing, some very entertaining comments "woke up and chose violence". I wonder if Lorenzi has the wing span for this, or is going to struggle like Schubert did?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: AndyP on January 21, 2024, 07:07:32 pm
Hayato Furusugi (https://www.instagram.com/hayato_furusugi/ (https://www.instagram.com/hayato_furusugi/)) mentioned in the comments that another ascensionist has "unofficially" said that it felt more like 8B+-8C. Wonder who that was & whether they will say anything.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on January 21, 2024, 07:32:45 pm
Somewhat hinted in the comments at terranova being 9a or I'm reading too much into it...

Oh no. Does that predate Burden? If so can we just pretend it doesn’t exist so at least the first Font 9 is something cool!
I agree  :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on January 21, 2024, 07:38:43 pm
Somewhat hinted in the comments at terranova being 9a or I'm reading too much into it...

Oh no. Does that predate Burden? If so can we just pretend it doesn’t exist so at least the first Font 9 is something cool!
I agree  :2thumbsup:

That's what we're doing with the 9a+s which predated Biographie, so why not?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on January 21, 2024, 07:52:51 pm
Just confirms what we already know: real, hard climbing is grinding away on some disgusting polished limestone hovel. Everything else is just fun.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on January 21, 2024, 07:59:06 pm
Just confirms what we already know: real, hard climbing is grinding away on some disgusting polished limestone hovel. Everything else is just fun.

The 9’s could have been Action Directe and Burden, now we are going to left with a 4 bolt non line at the Tor and an eliminate trav on the Moravian Karst 😭😭
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Wellsy on January 21, 2024, 08:28:51 pm
As it should be
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: monkoffunk on January 21, 2024, 10:07:44 pm
Is instagram like Twitter for climbers now or something? I’d be terrified to tentative suggest a personal/down-grade now. Didn’t Brooke get accused of misogyny after Box Therapy?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on January 21, 2024, 10:15:12 pm
Is instagram like Twitter for climbers now or something? I’d be terrified to tentative suggest a personal/down-grade now. Didn’t Brooke get accused of misogyny after Box Therapy?

Same as anything really, it's mostly sensible people with a handful of jeb ends in the mix who get a disproportionate amount of attention.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on January 21, 2024, 11:32:06 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMIIffUMV8g&t=324s

Webb seems to get into the slot ok towards the end of this. Perhaps it's more of a height thing? It's also pretty funny how much Bosi looks like he's barely trying on his attempt compared to this (day 2 vs day 11). Next level.

It's interesting that they claimed that Sleepwalker was America's ahrdest boulder. Hypnotised minds has always looked way harder to me.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: monkoffunk on January 22, 2024, 03:42:25 am
Quote from: drewruana
…. Same thing as normal, different body types will have a different experience. I have a -1 reach which means I had to do a few extra hard adjustments to reach the slot crimp, and I couldn’t pinch the top hold since my hands didn’t span. It felt 16 for me compared to other climbs but also it doesn’t mean it’s 16 for everyone, as seen by wills post. Doesn’t mean any of us are right or wrong the grade just gives a relative experience on it
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 07:17:16 am
I mostly climb with someone who’s almost a foot taller than me and it’s kinda hilarious how different things feel for us, we mostly just laugh at grades because they’re obviously pretty personal and meaningless outside of that personal experience.

Sure they’re a vague guide to the difficulty but they’re never 100% spot on. Look at West Side Story, basically harder than most of the peak 7Cs especially if you’re shorter :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on January 22, 2024, 08:24:19 am
Which are these 7Cs that are easier than West Side, please?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: erm, sam on January 22, 2024, 08:33:18 am
Quote
Which are these 7Cs that are easier than West Side, please?
My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 08:46:02 am
Ova Arm, Les Grand Doigts, zaff skocylas, Mossatrocity, cap gun, truffle, spring voyage, submergence, bens wall, domes sit, brass monkeys, echo chamber, diagon alley etc etc these are all easier than west side story  :lol: and it’s no secret that most people consider west side 7C especially after the pebble on the face broke making the move to the break even harder if you’re short.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on January 22, 2024, 09:08:25 am
Which are these 7Cs that are easier than West Side, please?

Brass Monkeys, Tetris, Hannibal, Pigs Make Nests (and the sit), Domes Sit and maybe Master Kush. For me anyway.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on January 22, 2024, 09:22:16 am
If the problems being pointed out as easier aren’t in a similar style to the supposed sandbag, it just makes one look technically deficient, rather than indicating an upgrade is required  ;D

Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 09:28:11 am
Nah it’s just a sandbag for sure
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: spidermonkey09 on January 22, 2024, 09:31:46 am
Ova Arm, Les Grand Doigts, zaff skocylas, Mossatrocity, cap gun, truffle, spring voyage, submergence, bens wall, domes sit, brass monkeys, echo chamber, diagon alley etc etc these are all easier than west side story  :lol: and it’s no secret that most people consider west side 7C especially after the pebble on the face broke making the move to the break even harder if you’re short.

I thought west side was ok at 7B+ and I'm 5'7''. Maybe you are technically deficient at vert climbing, just like I'm technically deficient at squeezing.

Also whatr stubs said, build a list of vert 7Cs you think are easier...


Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 09:40:25 am
I wouldn’t say I’m technically deficient at vert, I actually climb most of west side quite easily but I still think it’s harder than 7B+ My point was more that things feel different to different people who are of different sizes etc going back to wills downgrade of sleepwalker
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on January 22, 2024, 09:41:33 am
I was fortunate enough to come to it with decent skin, decent rubber, and good connies and it felt low-end 7B+ to me. I'm sure I'd find the steep squeezes you've listed harder. I am crap at steep squeezing, that doesn't mean I declare all the steep squeezes I can't do a grade harder.

I wouldn’t say I’m technically deficient at vert

Didn't you also leave a comment on The Storm on UKC saying "7C all day"? That was downgraded years ago and rightly so.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 09:48:53 am
Didn’t the storm used to be 8A originally? Seems like quite the mental downgrade. Again I found the storm easy, doesn’t mean I can’t give my opinion on the grade  :lol:

Also Will don’t forget you’re about a foot taller than me… oh and thanks for the pebble beta on the storm, actually helped loads!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on January 22, 2024, 09:50:42 am
Arguing over 1 grade is pointless, even within a given style. Reducing the scale to 'low 7', 'high 7', 'low 8', etc. still wouldn't completely eliminate debate. How many more debates do we need to see for this to be obvious to everyone?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on January 22, 2024, 09:55:08 am
Also Will don’t forget you’re about a foot taller than me

If you've done The Storm at 4 foot 10 inches then fair play to you.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on January 22, 2024, 09:56:29 am
If the problems being pointed out as easier aren’t in a similar style to the supposed sandbag, it just makes one look technically deficient, rather than indicating an upgrade is required  ;D

A fair comment, I was thinking Peak centric but in comparable style in Yorkshire I think it's about the same as Agrippa, The Titfield Thunderbolt Sit, The Flakes Sit, Andy's Problem Sit, Archimedes and Finches Fuel Sit.

Arguing over 1 grade is pointless, even within a given style. Reducing the scale to 'low 7', 'high 7', 'low 8', etc. still wouldn't completely eliminate debate. How many more debates do we need to see for this to be obvious to everyone?

But yes also this. They're all high 7s. As Sleepwalker is clearly a high 8. Job done.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: teestub on January 22, 2024, 10:00:20 am
Arguing over 1 grade is pointless,

Yes let’s go back to discussing people arguing about the grade of a problem most of us have never seen, let alone will climb, instead 😄
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on January 22, 2024, 10:03:47 am
But yes also this. They're all high 7s. As Sleepwalker is clearly a high 8. Job done.

But is Ben's high 7 or low 8? And so it continues...
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Ross Barker on January 22, 2024, 10:04:34 am
The first law of bouldering discussion is that it all eventually leads to bickering about tall people downgrading things
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: jwi on January 22, 2024, 10:06:31 am
this discussion is almost funnier than the comment thread below Will Bosi's instagram post

Anway, just switch to Japanese kyu-dan grading, 3dan = 7C+ to 8A, 4 dan = 8A+ to 8B, 5 dan = 8B+ to 8C, 6 dan 8C+ to 9A. Sleepwalker just got downgraded from 6 dan to 5 dan.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 10:09:04 am
The first law of bouldering discussion is that it all eventually leads to bickering about tall people downgrading things

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, it’s good for people to give their honest opinions on how something felt, I have more respect for people doing that than not. I climb with someone who’s over 6’ regularly and I’m totally aware of how stuff feels way easier for them and it’s personal.

I do think some stuff can be historically sandbagged and people can maybe feel some kind of pride to it being graded harder than it actually is. At least that’s kind of my thoughts on west side. I was just in Albarracin and I had a super strong polish fellow ask me “is everything on grit really sandbagged like people say it is?”  :lol:
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 22, 2024, 11:11:55 am
Like everywhere the peak has sandbags and it has softies. Maybe it has more sandbags than softies idk. Some of these might just be soft or sandbagged for you (or you and your collective group who might have similar views to you informed by climbing together alot)

Albarracins grades will never make much sense because the holds are eternally changing, by brushing or hold breakage. Look at Zazamora the holds have changed just via brushing in a massive ways. The issue there is just people don't acknowledge this and so there's constant information assymetry. Then people look back at old grades and say people have taken massive grades for things, when infact the blocs have changed quite massively (in my experience having been in 2016,17,19 and 20-21)

People say magic woods is soft, I found it nails but hadn't climbed inside for 3 years when I went and had zero snappyness, having recently been going on a board again I'm sure I'd have a very different perspective on that now.

I will forever find it wild how confident people can be over grades being x or y though. The more I do the less things make sense.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: SA Chris on January 22, 2024, 11:18:06 am
The first law of bouldering discussion is that it all eventually leads to bickering about tall people downgrading things

For 'tis writ in the Gospels of St Jerry thus "For where two or three gather in my name, a grade debate shall be among them"
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: dave k on January 22, 2024, 11:19:04 am
Quote from: drewruana
…. Same thing as normal, different body types will have a different experience. I have a -1 reach which means I had to do a few extra hard adjustments to reach the slot crimp, and I couldn’t pinch the top hold since my hands didn’t span. It felt 16 for me compared to other climbs but also it doesn’t mean it’s 16 for everyone, as seen by wills post. Doesn’t mean any of us are right or wrong the grade just gives a relative experience on it

Drew's view on the grade is very influential in the US and despite not having climbed V17 yet, he has a huge experience of V14+ (90 ish) including more V15 and 16s than Will.

It will be interesting to see if Will gets to sample other US hard problems to see how quickly he does other V14 and 15s.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 11:20:09 am
Like everywhere the peak has sandbags and it has softies. Maybe it has more sandbags than softies idk. Some of these might just be soft or sandbagged for you (or you and your collective group who might have similar views to you informed by climbing together alot)

Albarracins grades will never make much sense because the holds are eternally changing, by brushing or hold breakage. Look at Zazamora the holds have changed just via brushing in a massive ways. The issue there is just people don't acknowledge this and so there's constant information assymetry. Then people look back at old grades and say people have taken massive grades for things, when infact the blocs have changed quite massively (in my experience having been in 2016,17,19 and 20-21)

People say magic woods is soft, I found it nails but hadn't climbed inside for 3 years when I went and had zero snappyness, having recently been going on a board again I'm sure I'd have a very different perspective on that now.

I will forever find it wild how confident people can be over grades being x or y though. The more I do the less things make sense.

That’s what I replied to him “not necessarily sandbagged everywhere, spends on the crag, the problem, the FAist etc”
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on January 22, 2024, 11:24:40 am
The more I do the less things make sense.

Full agree

But yes also this. They're all high 7s. As Sleepwalker is clearly a high 8. Job done.

But is Ben's high 7 or low 8? And so it continues...

You need to stop cutting down trees at Hawkcliffe and go find out mate ;)
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: spidermonkey09 on January 22, 2024, 11:26:11 am

It will be interesting to see if Will gets to sample other US hard problems to see how quickly he does other V14 and 15s.

Hard to imagine Bosi not making mincemeat of eg Jade. It would be fun to let him loose on the Peabody boulder as well. He might have done these already tbf
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JamieG on January 22, 2024, 11:29:17 am
The more I do the less things make sense.

This is the most accurate statement about grades! They have a purpose and mostly serve it, but also frequently make absolutely no sense. Best not to worry about it.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 22, 2024, 11:33:59 am
I think part of the issue is that people often lean into they need to make absolute sense so they can have taken grade x or y rather than also recognising grades are also there to inform a person of an rough experience they will have if they were to try that compared to something of a similar style (although what is a similar style I suppose can become quite nuanced depending on who you ask).
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: JamieG on January 22, 2024, 11:39:01 am
Maybe it would be better if they weren't called 'grades' and called something like 'guides' or 'estimates' or some other word that better represents their inherent fuzziness. Grades gives the impression of something more quantifiable.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on January 22, 2024, 11:48:17 am
Like everywhere the peak has sandbags and it has softies. Maybe it has more sandbags than softies idk. Some of these might just be soft or sandbagged for you (or you and your collective group who might have similar views to you informed by climbing together alot)

Albarracins grades will never make much sense because the holds are eternally changing, by brushing or hold breakage. Look at Zazamora the holds have changed just via brushing in a massive ways. The issue there is just people don't acknowledge this and so there's constant information assymetry. Then people look back at old grades and say people have taken massive grades for things, when infact the blocs have changed quite massively (in my experience having been in 2016,17,19 and 20-21)

People say magic woods is soft, I found it nails but hadn't climbed inside for 3 years when I went and had zero snappyness, having recently been going on a board again I'm sure I'd have a very different perspective on that now.

I will forever find it wild how confident people can be over grades being x or y though. The more I do the less things make sense.

Equally conversely to Albarracin you've got places like Font where many of the 5-6's have become polished as shit over time due to usage of POF but people still refuse to upgrade them because of the history involved.

Also on the topic of grading REM by Giuliano has been re-upgraded to 8C+ by the last two repeat ascentionists after Paul downgraded to 8B+. Seems a pretty wild disparity in grade opinion between Paul and everyone else.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on January 22, 2024, 11:52:50 am
To me, grades generally make complete sense. As a way of comparing problems with other similar problems I think they generally work really well. Grades make less sense when obvious outliers aren't robustly challenged. These tend to be newer problems or things where there's been a sequence change/altered holds/cleaner holds etc. Things like Renaissance at Baildon - if that was left at 7B+ then everything else starts to fall apart because similar climbs of 7A or 7A+ feel about the same.
Trying to make sense of grades by thinking about how hard they feel to you (instead of how hard they feel compared to other similar problems) leads to confusion. People have so much knowledge about their physical strength ("I can do X% BW on a Y mm edge so I'm strong for grade Z") that it makes them feel entitled to a particular grade - if they then struggle it leads them to assume that the problem should be upgraded. I cannot touch Crystal Method, but that doesn't mean it isn't 7B+. I'm just shit at shouldery rock-overs.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on January 22, 2024, 11:55:30 am
Hard to imagine Bosi not making mincemeat of eg Jade. It would be fun to let him loose on the Peabody boulder as well. He might have done these already tbf

This trip is his first time climbing outdoors in the US apparently.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: yetix on January 22, 2024, 11:58:12 am
I think Jade is submerged in snow at this time of year as well (coops to confirm!) and apparently chaos is getting a soft reopening though so maybe he can try and flash it one day!
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: crimpinainteasy on January 22, 2024, 12:00:12 pm
To me, grades generally make complete sense. As a way of comparing problems with other similar problems I think they generally work really well. Grades make less sense when obvious outliers aren't robustly challenged. These tend to be newer problems or things where there's been a sequence change/altered holds/cleaner holds etc. Things like Renaissance at Baildon - if that was left at 7B+ then everything else starts to fall apart because similar climbs of 7A or 7A+ feel about the same.
Trying to make sense of grades by thinking about how hard they feel to you (instead of how hard they feel compared to other similar problems) leads to confusion. People have so much knowledge about their physical strength ("I can do X% BW on a Y mm edge so I'm strong for grade Z") that it makes them feel entitled to a particular grade - if they then struggle it leads them to assume that the problem should be upgraded. I cannot touch Crystal Method, but that doesn't mean it isn't 7B+. I'm just shit at shouldery rock-overs.

Maybe this just makes me a bad grader then, but I cba trying to grade problems on how hard I think a move is going to feel for someone else, I just grade on how hard something feels for me. I find even among problems that on are on paper in the same style and in a similar grade range there is still a significant amount of variance in how much effort me and my friends spend on each individual problem.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 12:06:56 pm
Maybe it would be better if they weren't called 'grades' and called something like 'guides' or 'estimates' or some other word that better represents their inherent fuzziness. Grades gives the impression of something more quantifiable.

This is genuinely not a bad idea you know, maybe the language we use around grades is what needs to change instead of the grades themselves
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: monkoffunk on January 22, 2024, 01:49:34 pm
To me, grades generally make complete sense. As a way of comparing problems with other similar problems I think they generally work really well. Grades make less sense when obvious outliers aren't robustly challenged. These tend to be newer problems or things where there's been a sequence change/altered holds/cleaner holds etc. Things like Renaissance at Baildon - if that was left at 7B+ then everything else starts to fall apart because similar climbs of 7A or 7A+ feel about the same.
Trying to make sense of grades by thinking about how hard they feel to you (instead of how hard they feel compared to other similar problems) leads to confusion. People have so much knowledge about their physical strength ("I can do X% BW on a Y mm edge so I'm strong for grade Z") that it makes them feel entitled to a particular grade - if they then struggle it leads them to assume that the problem should be upgraded. I cannot touch Crystal Method, but that doesn't mean it isn't 7B+. I'm just shit at shouldery rock-overs.

Maybe this just makes me a bad grader then, but I cba trying to grade problems on how hard I think a move is going to feel for someone else, I just grade on how hard something feels for me. I find even among problems that on are on paper in the same style and in a similar grade range there is still a significant amount of variance in how much effort me and my friends spend on each individual problem.

Yes, isn’t this the point of consensus? Everybody gives an honest opinion, you get a vague idea overall. Then most observers know what sort of experience they will have on it.

Looking at what factors seem to cause individual variation in grade feel might just help you narrow down expectations a little further for when you try it. Like the whole Spectre can you keep the foot on or not thing.

Or you just go and try it anyway and find out for yourself.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: joe-m on January 22, 2024, 02:17:25 pm
Mammut have a hitlist

Sleepwalker - $10k sit $15k

Alphane - $15k

Burden of dreams - used to be $20k but you only get $15k now

West side story - $25k

Can someone please put out a $100k contract on Shadowplay

Surprised Bosi/Aidan havent put some time into it

even though I assume this was tounge in cheek I believe they've both had a play on it.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Dingdong on January 22, 2024, 02:28:21 pm
Mammut have a hitlist

Sleepwalker - $10k sit $15k

Alphane - $15k

Burden of dreams - used to be $20k but you only get $15k now

West side story - $25k

Can someone please put out a $100k contract on Shadowplay

Surprised Bosi/Aidan havent put some time into it

even though I assume this was tounge in cheek I believe they've both had a play on it.

I was being sort of serious, would be good to see them work it properly and see if it can be “repeated”
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on January 22, 2024, 02:42:08 pm
Andy's Problem Sit

Sorry to drag this back a page or two but, Nick, do you mean the sit to Desert Island Arete climbed on it's right? Can't be worth more than 7A surely?
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Bradders on January 22, 2024, 02:45:54 pm
No, the Caley one.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Will Hunt on January 22, 2024, 02:56:30 pm
No, the Caley one.

Ah right, thank you. I was questioning my own sanity for a moment.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Liamhutch89 on January 23, 2024, 10:45:41 pm
Finger lock rest on Return of the Sleepwalker:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2cvZQQxOR6/

Mellow crew now in hiding.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Moo on January 23, 2024, 10:59:03 pm
It's ode the the modern man all over again.
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: Fiend on January 24, 2024, 09:30:29 am
Will Bantzi
Title: Re: Bosiwad
Post by: remus on February 18, 2024, 07:16:22 pm
Sounds like RotSW is close, stuck the slot a few times last session and missed getting the intermediate properly a few times.
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