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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: shark on April 28, 2020, 11:24:28 am

Title: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on April 28, 2020, 11:24:28 am
Neil Carson was the first ascentionist of the Big Bang 9a at LPT way back in 1996. Although Ben and Jerry went on it and confirmed difficulty it wasn’t repeated until 2011 by Caff (http://www.jamesmchaffie.com/caffs-blog/the-big-bang-premuir-footage).

Last year it was repeated by Emma Twyford becoming the first UK female to climb 9a. The award winning film of her ascent by Dave Petts was notable for not mentioning Neil once.

This raised some questions about Neil’s background and climbing career here on UKB. I think its fair to say Neil never got the attention his achievements deserved even in his heyday. Hopefully this interview redressses the balance a bit..

https://youtu.be/KEfIwqQvk4c
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: remus on April 28, 2020, 01:38:25 pm
That was cool, cheers for taking the time to sort it Shark.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: duncan on April 28, 2020, 04:38:24 pm
Enjoyed that, always felt like the Big Bang FA was one of the untold stories of UK climbing.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: dunnyg on April 28, 2020, 04:51:35 pm
Cheers for that Shark :great:
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: HarryBD on April 28, 2020, 04:51:40 pm
Cheers Shark, really good listen
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 28, 2020, 05:05:09 pm
Nice one   :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: r-man on April 28, 2020, 05:12:56 pm
Enjoyed that, always felt like the Big Bang FA was one of the untold stories of UK climbing.

Absolutely. And really nice to learn about Neil's life and climbing.

Thanks Shark!

Incidentally, who was the belayer? It would be interesting hear his reflections on the successful go. Sounds like Neil must have gone from well up for it to completely over it pretty soon after clipping the chains.

Ben and Jerry went to try it. Wonder what they made of it. Who else tried? Did Malc ever show an interest?
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: remus on April 28, 2020, 05:27:46 pm
Sounds like Neil must have gone from well up for it to completely over it pretty soon after clipping the chains.

It reminds me a bit of Andy Pollitt on Punks in the Gym. "When redpointing goes too far".
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 28, 2020, 05:29:15 pm
I don’t think Moony’s opinion is worth too much because he’s using a total duff sequence in the pics. Goes up with the wrong hand on the crux. Think Jerry looked at it before it’d been climbed then ended up bolting LA. Don’t think Malc tried BB.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on April 28, 2020, 05:51:54 pm
Cheers guys - glad you liked it.

Incidentally, who was the belayer? It would be interesting hear his reflections on the successful go.

I'll ask Neil and see if I can track them down. 

Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Adam Lincoln on April 28, 2020, 06:55:39 pm
Used to see him down the wall (west view) was always really friendly and chatty. Seemed a really nice guy.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: El Mocho on April 28, 2020, 07:08:17 pm
I enjoyed that. Only knew him a little back in the day, from comps. Sure we must have been away to a few internationals as part of the team but I was mostly a bit later than him. I'd have liked to have asked about Mission Impossible but too late...
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Bonjoy on April 28, 2020, 07:38:43 pm
Cheers Shark, good interview  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Ru on April 28, 2020, 08:18:42 pm
Good stuff. I climbed with him a little bit when he lived in Chorley, before I went to university. Malham and Longridge mostly. He also used to train at Cliffs Barn climbing wall which was my teenage hangout. We'd be doing problems on the woody and he'd come and do 10-minute circuits - it was about a 50-60 degree curved board. I'd hazard a guess that his endurance the late 90s would be impressive even now.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Andy F on April 28, 2020, 11:52:03 pm
I remember Neil doing circuits on the Cliffs Barn curved woody. Laps on things most of us couldn't touch.

Side note: What a board that was!
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Fatboyslimfast2 on April 29, 2020, 08:02:07 am
Just out of intrest my old profile had a pic posted by me in the Old Skool thread of me on Hot Fun Closing from about '88, cant find original in my house or get access to photobucket but heres the link to the thread page, bout half way down.
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6644.0.html (https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6644.0.html)

The group underneath route has both the Carson boys in, Daves got a grey top on looking up and Neils looking up with his back to us walking toward Rubicon.

Im thinking maybe that is MrJonathan belaying maybe??
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on April 29, 2020, 08:29:33 am
Incidentally, who was the belayer? It would be interesting hear his reflections on the successful go.

I'll ask Neil and see if I can track them down.

Jethro Kiernan. Messaged him but not heard back yet
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: mrjonathanr on April 29, 2020, 10:34:34 am
Hi FBSF, don't think it's me belaying, the photo further up is though.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Camo on April 29, 2020, 04:36:36 pm
Good interview, thanks shark for sorting it.

He seems like a nice bloke and it was interesting to hear his stories. I do think it was a real shame the Big Bang film didn’t give him a nod for having the vision and the determination to get it done back in the day.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 29, 2020, 04:53:58 pm


I do think it was a real shame the Big Bang film didn’t give him a nod for having the vision and the determination to get it done back in the day.

Slightly bizarre in fact. 
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: SA Chris on April 29, 2020, 04:59:13 pm
Indeed. Even more bizarre that Gresh got a look in. Can kind of understand Jerry, based on historical relationship with development of LPT.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Paul B on April 29, 2020, 05:38:22 pm
I do think it was a real shame the Big Bang film didn’t give him a nod for having the vision and the determination to get it done back in the day.

I didn't realise the fact I missed the premier meant I'd have to wait. Does anyone know when this is available for general viewing (BMC TV)?

Good effort to Shark for actually getting this done.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Camo on April 29, 2020, 05:47:29 pm
I do think it was a real shame the Big Bang film didn’t give him a nod for having the vision and the determination to get it done back in the day.

I didn't realise the fact I missed the premier meant I'd have to wait. Does anyone know when this is available for general viewing (BMC TV)?

Good effort to Shark for actually getting this done.

Not sure but I believe I read somewhere (UKC?) that it would be put on Vimeo on demand. Which I assume means it has to be paid for. Bit of a shame for those who missed it if that’s the case but I guess the people that made it need something to pay their rent with.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Pantontino on April 30, 2020, 12:14:47 am
That was great - nice one Shark!
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: rginns on April 30, 2020, 02:05:06 am
That was great Simon, totally modest guy for such an achievement, I find it hard to believe none of the history was in the film about Emma, seems integral to any story about a route..
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 30, 2020, 02:15:01 pm
(http://img4.imagetitan.com/img4/small/21/21_9b3134f9-a4d9-4a3c-b031-a1f01ca371a6.jpeg) (http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=21_9b3134f9-a4d9-4a3c-b031-a1f01ca371a6.jpeg)
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: petejh on April 30, 2020, 05:51:22 pm
Funny to think that was written 23 years ago and yet still today it's probably(?) unrealistic to imagine any of the current crop of brit climbers other than McClure suggesting a downgrade of a 9a ascent. Needs a eurowadTM who's done a slew of them to give an objective view, or McClure to retire to Llandudno. Chances of either are probably similarly slim!
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on April 30, 2020, 05:57:34 pm
Steve’s not psyched for BB (or moving to Llandudno)

Maybe Pete Dawson might be interested after he’s done with Mutation - he lives in Manchester
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Nike Air on April 30, 2020, 06:32:14 pm
Simon thanks for that, enjoyed filling in the gaps of the history of Neil and his association with LPT. As was mentioned by someone else on here I too felt it was one of the untold stories of British climbing.

When I started climbing I think I overlapped with Neil in his prime. Watching him at west view, cliffs barn and longridge was inspiration even though as a beginner I bet I didn't really know how good he was. He just looked ripped and effortless.

In fact I used to see him arrive at longridge on his rode bike, don his climbing shoes and chalk bag, get on at the left, traverse all the way across and come straight back without stepping off. Never breaking a sweat and smiling the whole way. Then just get back on his bike and cycle off. Climbing in his cycle shorts was kinda cool too.
I really hope he wasn't there the day I feel off, this was  back when the cows used to share the field.... I came off badly, pretty much head first, arms out to break my fall only to be greated by one of them cowpats that has turned crusty on the outside by gooey on the inside.

Wish my mouth had not been open... not cool...  :no:

Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: gme on April 30, 2020, 06:50:52 pm
Steve’s not psyched for BB (or moving to Llandudno)

Maybe Pete Dawson might be interested after he’s done with Mutation - he lives in Manchester

Surprised Steve’s not interested it’s a pretty similar drive to Malham. History, quality, within driving distance. Would have thought with a bit of on the spot updates you could get conditions checked before travel.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: gme on April 30, 2020, 06:53:35 pm
Interview was great Simon. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 30, 2020, 07:00:42 pm
Steve’s not psyched for BB (or moving to Llandudno)

Maybe Pete Dawson might be interested after he’s done with Mutation - he lives in Manchester

Surprised Steve’s not interested it’s a pretty similar drive to Malham. History, quality, within driving distance. Would have thought with a bit of on the spot updates you could get conditions checked before travel.

He’s not done any of the hard ones downstairs so obviously can’t be arsed with it.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: gme on April 30, 2020, 07:04:39 pm
Surprises me again as they are quality. Conditions no more fickle than kilnsey and he could do them all relatively easily.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 30, 2020, 07:23:24 pm
He’s been on Liquid, Sea of and BB and not been back to finish any of them. I don’t think conditions are any worse. Kilnsey is wet most the time. Malham is boiling a lot of the time. LPT hardly seeps.  Main thing is the tides which is a pain if not local. And not great when humid but that goes for most the sport crags.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: gme on April 30, 2020, 07:52:45 pm
Must be just shite then like Megos said.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Stabbsy on April 30, 2020, 07:56:24 pm
In fact I used to see him arrive at longridge on his rode bike, don his climbing shoes and chalk bag, get on at the left, traverse all the way across and come straight back without stepping off. Never breaking a sweat and smiling the whole way. Then just get back on his bike and cycle off. Climbing in his cycle shorts was kinda cool too.
I really hope he wasn't there the day I feel off, this was  back when the cows used to share the field.... I came off badly, pretty much head first, arms out to break my fall only to be greated by one of them cowpats that has turned crusty on the outside by gooey on the inside.

Completely off-topic, but I remember Lovatt telling me that you couldn’t consider yourself a Longridge local until you’d landed arse first on a cow pat. I think he gave it a name - “The Longridge Botty Slap” or something like that.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: petejh on April 30, 2020, 08:05:39 pm
He’s been on Liquid, Sea of and BB and not been back to finish any of them. I don’t think conditions are any worse. Kilnsey is wet most the time. Malham is boiling a lot of the time. LPT hardly seeps.  Main thing is the tides which is a pain if not local. And not great when humid but that goes for most the sport crags.

New 9a+ there for him too if he wanted it. Great rock, independent line, tiny crimps, got his name all over it.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 30, 2020, 08:08:07 pm
Must be just shite then like Megos said.

Probably is shite if you’ve onsighted 9a and fall off Statement  :lol:
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 30, 2020, 08:09:46 pm
He’s been on Liquid, Sea of and BB and not been back to finish any of them. I don’t think conditions are any worse. Kilnsey is wet most the time. Malham is boiling a lot of the time. LPT hardly seeps.  Main thing is the tides which is a pain if not local. And not great when humid but that goes for most the sport crags.

New 9a+ there for him too if he wanted it. Great rock, independent line, tiny crimps, got his name all over it.

Has to keep the name though.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on April 30, 2020, 08:54:01 pm
New 9a+ there for him too if he wanted it. Great rock, independent line, tiny crimps, got his name all over it.

Has to keep the name though.

I dread to think - Gang Bang?
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on April 30, 2020, 09:52:11 pm
New 9a+ there for him too if he wanted it. Great rock, independent line, tiny crimps, got his name all over it.

Has to keep the name though.

I dread to think - Gang Bang?

You have such a low opinion of me.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Coops_13 on April 30, 2020, 10:03:24 pm
New 9a+ there for him too if he wanted it. Great rock, independent line, tiny crimps, got his name all over it.

Has to keep the name though.

I dread to think - Gang Bang?

You have such a low opinion of me.
You should come over to Colorado Doylo:
https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106500026/gang-bang
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: jern on May 01, 2020, 03:58:35 am

Completely off-topic, but I remember Lovatt telling me that you couldn’t consider yourself a Longridge local until you’d landed arse first on a cow pat. I think he gave it a name - “The Longridge Botty Slap” or something like that.

Ha ha - happened to me in summer 1990. Fell off arse first into a cow pat. It was pretty fresh and the cow was obviously well hydrated so it soaked though my Ron Hills and into my undies. Wouldn't have been a problem but afterwards i was going straight out on the lash in Preston.



Didn't pull that night
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: SA Chris on May 01, 2020, 09:22:38 am
Small mercy probably.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Murph on May 01, 2020, 10:28:51 am
Never heard of Neil before. Loved that interview. He came across as such a level headed person climbing for really modest internal motivators - as a lot of good climbers do - and it's great to see. Amazing really. Thanks shark.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: UnkArl on May 01, 2020, 12:55:19 pm
Thanks for that Shark, really interesting interview. It ends rather abruptly, or is that just me?

Be interesting to get a “response” from Mr Petts About why Neil was never mentioned.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on May 01, 2020, 01:54:01 pm
Thanks for that Shark, really interesting interview. It ends rather abruptly, or is that just me?

Sorry didn’t round it off well and so cut it off at a point where we started talking about mutual friends and family stuff for another 40 minutes.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on May 01, 2020, 02:52:38 pm
And thanks again for all the  positive comments  :wub:
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: rginns on May 01, 2020, 02:55:23 pm

I really hope he wasn't there the day I feel off, this was  back when the cows used to share the field.... I came off badly, pretty much head first, arms out to break my fall only to be greated by one of them cowpats that has turned crusty on the outside by gooey on the inside.

Wish my mouth had not been open... not cool...  :no:
Jesus Christ Jordan that's grim! :blink: :sick:
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Rob F on May 01, 2020, 04:15:08 pm
Legend: he came, he conquered and disappeared off to France to spend time with his family.

What would make him Superlegend would be a mega comeback, and to make the first repeat of Rainman...
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on May 01, 2020, 04:26:47 pm
And thanks again for all the  positive comments  :wub:

You’re a lot better at interviewing than you are climbing.  :lol: I watched the G one again - did well to soften those questions that implied people think he’s a bullshitter so they didn’t offend. 
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: shark on May 04, 2020, 08:36:01 am
He’s been on Liquid, Sea of and BB and not been back to finish any of them. I don’t think conditions are any worse. Kilnsey is wet most the time. Malham is boiling a lot of the time. LPT hardly seeps.  Main thing is the tides which is a pain if not local. And not great when humid but that goes for most the sport crags.

New 9a+ there for him too if he wanted it. Great rock, independent line, tiny crimps, got his name all over it.

Has to keep the name though.

Quote from: shark in PM
@Steven Mcclure Apparently theres a potentail new 9a+  at LPT for you to do if you wanted it. Great rock, independent line, tiny crimps. Do you know about it? Interested?

Quote from: Steve Mac
9a+ at LPT... make that 9b+ for effort (conditions/distance/tides). So might be pushing it for me. But could be worth a look. Must be squeezed in though, don't remember many gaps...
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on May 04, 2020, 08:52:58 am
The Big Crunch - bolted 2010.

 http://doylosblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/future-and-now.html?m=1 (http://doylosblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/future-and-now.html?m=1)
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Duma on May 04, 2020, 09:10:54 am
How tidal is lpt? I've never got tides as an excuse, they're 100% predictable after all. It's only if the window is really short it should be a serious barrier no?
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Doylo on May 04, 2020, 09:14:32 am
You get about 3.5 ish hours before and after low tide. Is in the sun until around 12 though.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: remus on May 04, 2020, 11:15:46 am
How tidal is lpt? I've never got tides as an excuse, they're 100% predictable after all. It's only if the window is really short it should be a serious barrier no?

Even if tides are predictable, good conditions on sea cliffs are at a premium so if it's only decent x% of the time and then you lose some big chunk of that to tides you're hurting your chances.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Will Hunt on May 05, 2020, 01:30:47 pm
Well I think the sense of the question about the project to the right of Black Jumper at Caley was sufficiently lost in the asking that I'm not sure if it's been answered!

But thanks anyway for the interview.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: nai on May 05, 2020, 01:53:40 pm
Could have sworn you asked if he tried going direct and the answer was no he didn't
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Will Hunt on May 05, 2020, 02:16:08 pm
I think there was just some confusion around the name of the thing and thus where it was on the crag (there was some mention of Psycho), which makes we wonder whether the thing I'm thinking of and what Neil was remembering are the same thing. It probably is the same thing, and if so it's interesting to know that he wasn't using pads and that he didn't give serious attention to the top wall.

I'm not sure why it was an embarrassing question in the first place. It's a significant crag, the direct finish is a significant unclimbed line on the crag (standing very squarely in broad daylight next to the main path). The guidebook description makes it sound like it is a long standing project, of which Neil solved the first bit. He's clearly not shy of a crimp - it's intriguing to know why that top section didn't go.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: nai on May 05, 2020, 02:45:35 pm
Well putting the pieces togther, he said he didn't do a lot of bouldering and it wasn't a focus, it's high, hard and if he fell off he'd have missed pads by at least five years.

It's also worth noting that back in the late 1990s pads were 80cm square and about 5cm thick and you owned one, if your mates had one too you were lucky. 
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Rob F on May 05, 2020, 04:37:36 pm
Will, if it was possible then you really think that Caley protagonists such as Manson, Clifford, Birch, Peckitt would have missed it out???

Having said that, with modern ability to do massive dynos from undercuts. Mmm...
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: dunnyg on May 05, 2020, 04:39:46 pm
I heard Will did it yesterday, says its 6C+, and soft at that.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Rob F on May 05, 2020, 04:47:39 pm
Very true- ha ha

Bear in mind it's over 25 years since I looked, but I think the line in the latest guide is misleading and the traverse left to the arete is lower down.

It's only 8 meters. What was Will's lank stats on that other thread???
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Bradders on May 05, 2020, 04:49:28 pm
it's intriguing to know why that top section didn't go.

Quote from: Will Hunt
Are there any holds on the direct finish?

Quote from: Rob F
I rapped down it years ago. There aren't any...

YW  ;)

I'd never noticed this line before (shows how badly my blinkers are attached  ::)) but the cop out to the arete looks great, thanks for the heads up Will; on the list. Real shame there aren't any holds higher up assuming Rob didn't miss anything.
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Will Hunt on May 05, 2020, 04:54:50 pm
Will, if it was possible then you really think that Caley protagonists such as Manson, Clifford, Birch, Peckitt would have missed it out???

Having said that, with modern ability to do massive dynos from undercuts. Mmm...

It's exactly that sort of thinking that means that these things get overlooked! Caley has had loads of things go at (relatively) modest grades in the last 20 years. One might ask why Varian's additions from the last few years hadn't been done yet. They're all between 7C (or maybe +) and 8A/+ (wall left of Unfinished Crack taken direct, direct start to Rabbit's Paw Wall, slab/rib left of Syrett's Saunter, left hand finish to Lightning Crack trending left towards Maurice Chevalier, link of Ben's Groove into the finish of the Ripper Traverse). Not exactly the grades of tomorrow. Dunning only did the left side of Quark a few years ago. Obviously it's massive and looks very scary, but then High Fidelity is massive and looks very scary and 8B is a much bigger proposition than The Waiting Line (7C).
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Y Broga on May 06, 2020, 06:28:37 pm
Well putting the pieces togther, he said he didn't do a lot of bouldering and it wasn't a focus, it's high, hard and if he fell off he'd have missed pads by at least five years.

It's also worth noting that back in the late 1990s pads were 80cm square and about 5cm thick and you owned one, if your mates had one too you were lucky.


 Yep, I was confused by the question - I wrote up a few boulder problems in the early 80s and struggled to remember which one this was! Anyway, I didn't look at the direct - no holds! Neil C
Title: Re: Neil Carson interview now live
Post by: Will Hunt on May 06, 2020, 08:22:43 pm
Thanks, Neil.
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