UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: Bradders on October 06, 2019, 07:46:13 pm
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What's with the B grades the Mellow lot seem to be using lately?
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His latest ig story shows it, seems pointless unless everything under 8A is easy to you.
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From his Instagram story:
B0 = v0 - v2
B1 = v3 - v4
B2 = v5 - v6
B3 = v7 - v8
B4 = v9 - v10
B5 = v11 - v12 easy
B6 = v12 hard - v13
B7 = v13 hard - v14
B8 = v14 hard - v15
B9 = v16
B10 = v17
incase you've been wondering this is the new simplified bouldering scale
thoughts?
Looks like pure, unadulterated dick-waving bollocks to me.
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It seems that some of my old "20 most pressing questions" are still relevant...
Are the new generation of climbers more stupid or just more annoying than the previous generations?
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indeed. We're so strong that we can't tell the difference at lower grades, but they must be grouped so the number doesn't get too high.
If you think about how natural it is for things to get all out of wack around v10, or 8a, then can you imagine what it will take to create a v18/b11?
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From his Instagram story:
B0 = v0 - v2
B1 = v3 - v4
B2 = v5 - v6
B3 = v7 - v8
B4 = v9 - v10
B5 = v11 - v12 easy
B6 = v12 hard - v13
B7 = v13 hard - v14
B8 = v14 hard - v15
B9 = v16
B10 = v17
incase you've been wondering this is the new simplified bouldering scale
thoughts?
Looks like pure, unadulterated dick-waving bollocks to me.
Hahaha... a new scale that is isometrically isomorph to the old one, but less useful. That takes a special kind of stupid!
Why not use the Japanese scale if they want smaller numbers and broader bands. 1 dan = 7a+ or b, 2 dan 7b+ or c, 3dan 7c+ or 8a 4dan = 8a+ or b, 5dan = 8b or b+, 6dan = 8c or c+, 7dan 9a or a+ etc
Or why not the Toyota scale: a to f. a is from 2a to 4c or so, ... e is 7b to 8a+ approximately (from memory) f is 8b to ≈ 9a+.
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It seems that some of my old "20 most pressing questions" are still relevant...
Are the new generation of climbers more stupid or just more annoying than the previous generations?
time for a sequel
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From his Instagram story:
B0 = v0 - v2
B1 = v3 - v4
B2 = v5 - v6
B3 = v7 - v8
B4 = v9 - v10
B5 = v11 - v12 easy
B6 = v12 hard - v13
B7 = v13 hard - v14
B8 = v14 hard - v15
B9 = v16
B10 = v17
incase you've been wondering this is the new simplified bouldering scale
thoughts?
Looks like pure, unadulterated dick-waving bollocks to me.
:agree: what a bunch of utter pointlessly elitist chodes. Presumably after a brief period of entirely justified mockery, this moronic idea will die a swift death.
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I did send a message asking "what's the point" but haven't heard anything back yet :tumble:
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Ignoring all the grading silliness, Livin' Large is a beautiful looking thing. Anyone here seen it in the flesh?
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From his Instagram story:
B0 = v0 - v2
B1 = v3 - v4
B2 = v5 - v6
B3 = v7 - v8
B4 = v9 - v10
B5 = v11 - v12 easy
B6 = v12 hard - v13
B7 = v13 hard - v14
B8 = v14 hard - v15
B9 = v16
B10 = v17
incase you've been wondering this is the new simplified bouldering scale
thoughts?
Looks like pure, unadulterated dick-waving bollocks to me.
Hahaha... a new scale that is isometrically isomorph to the old one, but less useful. That takes a special kind of stupid!
Why not use the Japanese scale if they want smaller numbers and broader bands. 1 dan = 7a+ or b, 2 dan 7b+ or c, 3dan 7c+ or 8a 4dan = 8a+ or b, 5dan = 8b or b+, 6dan = 8c or c+, 7dan 9a or a+ etc
Or why not the Toyota scale: a to f. a is from 2a to 4c or so, ... e is 7b to 8a+ approximately (from memory) f is 8b to ≈ 9a+.
Can someone more intelligent than me (i.e. everyone) explain why this is such a terrible idea? We're predisposed to want to place things into patterns, patterns of base 10 makes sense for lots of reasons, simplicity being a big one - the Romans and the Metric system for e.g.
I think that if they'd started at V1-V2 and suggested two font grades per one B grade all the way to B10 with 10 being a hypothetical max like on a loudspeaker, instead of condensing at v11 then it would have been a half decent suggestion.
Lower font grades condensed two for one shouldn't bother as many people now that every other 6 year-old is flashing V5 in the gym?
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Have you noticed how it condenses grades that they find easy but not ones they find hard... It's a self congratulatory circle jerk
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I think that if they'd started at V1-V2 and suggested two font grades per one B grade all the way to B10 with 10 being a hypothetical max like on a loudspeaker, instead of condensing at v11 then it would have been a half decent suggestion.
?
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And when somebody climbs something harder than the hypothetical maximum B10? It'll be like that fucking scene from Spinal Tap. What problem is it that they're trying to solve. The idiocy of it is crushing.
I can show you plenty of people who struggle like fuck on V0s and V1s.
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Ignoring all the grading silliness, Livin' Large is a beautiful looking thing. Anyone here seen it in the flesh?
I've been to marvel. It's a bit of a trek, and most stuff at champagne sector is both hard and high, so not sure many bother with the walk. Amazing line though, aretes are great and this is one of the best looking in Rocklands, which is full of amazing looking aretes...
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And when somebody climbs something harder than the hypothetical maximum B10? It'll be like that fucking scene from Spinal Tap. What problem is it that they're trying to solve. The idiocy of it is crushing.
I can show you plenty of people who struggle like fuck on V0s and V1s.
That would be V20 - current hardest boulder grade, Burden of Dreams, proposed at V17. It should give us plenty of breathing space before this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o
edit - I seriously doubt that people struggling like fuck on V0s care what letter and number combo they're on.
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And when somebody climbs something harder than the hypothetical maximum B10? It'll be like that fucking scene from Spinal Tap. What problem is it that they're trying to solve. The idiocy of it is crushing.
I can show you plenty of people who struggle like fuck on V0s and V1s.
edit - I seriously doubt that people struggling like fuck on V0s care what letter and number combo they're on.
Wrong again.
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And when somebody climbs something harder than the hypothetical maximum B10? It'll be like that fucking scene from Spinal Tap. What problem is it that they're trying to solve. The idiocy of it is crushing.
I can show you plenty of people who struggle like fuck on V0s and V1s.
edit - I seriously doubt that people struggling like fuck on V0s care what letter and number combo they're on.
Wrong again.
I already thought V grades was silly elitist bullshit to start with. There are thousands of climbers going to Fontainebleau who never climb harder than 5c, and grades 2+ to 5c seems to make exactly as much of a sense as grades 6a - 7b. These are all already ungraded “easy” on the V scale. Ridiculous.
Also:
A proper grading scale for climbing should work like this:
A well rounded climber at any level should be able to
* Siege climbs at maxgrade + 0.5, with extreme luck and a well timed top shape on their side
* Do climbs at maxgrade within 10 sessions
* Consistently to climbs at maxgrade – 1 in a few days
* Consistently do climbs at maxgrade – 2 in a day
* Sometimes flash climbs at maxgrade – 3
Regardless of what the maxgrade is.
If I look at the bollocksscale above, many climbers with a max grade of Bollocks 2 can flash more than half of the Bollocks 1-problems, whereas no one with a max grade of Bollocks 10 can flash more than half of the Bollocks 9-problems. Thus the bollocksscale suffer from being non-linear. The Font scale does not.
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Good split but the original idea should have started and stayed in the Log Pile. Pete stop being an elitist chode.
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It's comforting to know that being really good at rock climbing is not mutually exclusive with being as thick as mince.
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I’d pay money to hear Shawn Raboutou answer questions from a bunch of irate kids about why he thinks it’s a good idea for all their projects to be regraded B0.1-0.3...
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We're all circumventing the pachyderm chambered by walls here... there already is a bollocks B-grade system that means nothing, and it's ours, so we should be vehemently defending it.
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who are the Mellow lot?
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who are the Mellow lot?
Welcome to Mellow, a collection of media made for the climber, by the climber. Our goal is simple: to share pure motivation.
For starters, we’ll be posting several videos to our YouTube channel every week. Mondays we will drop full-length edits, Wednesdays will feature raw, uncut footage, and Fridays will give you a taste of what to expect next week.
Keep your eyes peeled for our first edit, “Sleepwalker” which will go live tomorrow at 8AM(PST), it will not disappoint!
@shawnraboutou
@dawoods89
@giuliano_cameroni
@jwebxl
@_keenan_t
@kevintakashismith
Psyche is high!!!
HTH ;D
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Ah WACOS*
*What a crock of shit.
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I can only see the B grade being of use when grading FAs and when you are a V16 crusher. They'll likely be out be a V grade either way on the easier stuff, so it's like giving new problems a grade range, and then repeaters can suggest appropriate proper grades afterwards.
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I think we're wasting oxygen talking about what these bellends have to say. Some of their videos are an entertaining watch (mostly the ones which don't have nay Americans in) but outside of that they're the typical "put me infront of a camera and I'll make myself look like an idiot" colorado bumpkin that I've been avoiding for years.
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#Pray4FontGrades
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Is someone going to tell them that B-grades already exist?
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Word. B grades and beer towels. 90s bouldering represent!
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Can someone remind me what problem this mindbogglingly imbecilic solution is supposed to be solving? :wall:
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Counting to numbers greater than your number of fingers?
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Word. B grades and beer towels. 90s bouldering represent!
Steve Rhodes and Allen Williams Guides ahoy !
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Can someone remind me what problem this mindbogglingly imbecilic solution is supposed to be solving? :wall:
Agreed, it's an unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem, but is it really any more imbecilic than any grading system? All climbing grades are just a numeric/alpha-numeric progression - this one is the same. They're all an attempt to describe something that has multiple dimensions in a one-dimensional way. They all give a guide to broadly how hard something is, but the reality is often somewhat different. I'm sure everyone could come up with examples of routes/problems graded (x minus 1) that they find harder than most stuff graded (x). Does that mean the grade of the easier route is wrong or just that I'm wrong? Answer is most likely neither, just that climbing difficulty is not one-dimensional.
I'd argue that, because the difficulty of routes/problems is quite personal, the linearity of climbing grades only works over a small range specific to the individual. For boulder problems, I'd say that range is even smaller than for routes because the physical requirements of the problem become that much more specific and there isn't the same opportunity for things to "average out". As a result, linearity/non-linearity of grading exists for everyone at some point on every grading system. The difference is that we're used to where that non-linearity exists on the scales that we use regularly, so maybe don't question it in the same way. If I try a Font 3B and find it more difficult than a Font 4B, I'm likely to shrug my shoulders, but what if the relative grades are 4B and 5B, 5B and 6B, 6B and 7B - surely that indicates that the Font grades aren't linear either.
I agree that the granularity at lower grades in the Font system is useful, but the granularity introduces inaccuracy as you try to pigeon hole the difficulty of a problem into a smaller and smaller slot. Less granular grades are actually far more likely to be "accurate" because there are less boundaries. Consider the range between Font 6A and 7C+, so that's 12 Font grades, 8 V-grades and 4 B-grades. If Font is better than V is better than B, then why is 12 grades the right number? Why not 16 or 20? Carry on increasing that number and where do you end up? - a graded list, with every problem neatly pigeon-holed. Now I do love a graded list, but we all know how accurate they are.
So, yes it's slightly pointless having another grade scale but I'm not sure it's an indication that they're "thick as mince". They just occupy a world where everyone climbs 8A/V11/B5, so to them it probably makes perfect sense. In the world I occupy, V grades and Font grades make sense and work adequately. If I only climbed V0, then maybe only Font grades would make sense. All of them are just descriptive tools, but the only thing that matters in the end is whether you did the problem or not.
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What are V grades?
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Seems like the only thing "solved" is having smaller numbers. The grade bands at the top are the same width (although shifted by 0.5), it just adds some compression lower down, making it impossible to ever make a guidebook with the system. Plus of course it is exactly as understandable as V grades (linearly increasing numbers), so I literally can't see a point other than just being a way to let them retroactively regrade controversial stuff in their swish new system.
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I expect it was a result of a late night session with Class A drugs, that someone actually remembered the next morning and decided to do something about it.
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Elitist wanker ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
All about him, him, him and his bouldering, reducing the entirety of 'roped climbing' to just 'B1'.
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I always believed I was the world's greatest mixed climber and you've just confirmed it.
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I always believed I was the world's greatest mixed climber and you've just confirmed it.
Excellent! I believe its the perfect system!
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But have more people not repeated Ill Piratta or Burden of Dreams? I haven't done either, so it's hard to say from my non-repeats.
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Every time the people involved in this Mellow thing say or do anything it's fucking stupid. Being good at filming/climbing/promoting things doesn't make them Mensa candidates. That blurb of their instagram channel made me wince. :sick:
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You really choose some odd hills to die on Pete :lol:
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That John Gill scale is only slightly more advanced than the classic “There’s only two grades, ones you can do and ones you can’t”. :lol:
Grading systems just seem like currencies to me- all measuring the same essential but crude thing, all pretty much as arbitrary as each other and changing between one regional system and another is a right faff.
Like currencies, having loads just seems like a hangover from when the world was a bigger, much less connected place. I thought that when US sport wads started using French grades a few years ago it was a step in the right direction but this B-grade Bitcoin rammel is definitely two steps back.
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It's immensely stupid. I climb up to about 6B+ and I care about the difference between font 3, font 5 and font 6A.
It's an elitist idea with no advantages.
If I go out into the peak with 1 mat, I may get onto a grim looking highball font 4, I wouldn't get onto a grim looking highball font 5+. If I gained a stone, those numbers would drop by 0.5 probably.
People care about lower grades.
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You really choose some odd hills to die on Pete :lol:
Haha yeah I do. I don’t really care as much as it might look, I just think all grading systems are arbitrary and inherently inaccurate, and don’t see this as any worse than others. I think people get attached to ideas for no logical reason.
There’s an attractive simplicity about counting systems using base 10
(And except for the almost unique case of font with tons of easier boulders with friendly landings where else in the world is font 2,3 and 4 actually used/useful?)
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Ah so it’s base 10, So really you’re a frustrated V grades fan, bewildered by the increasing worldwide acceptance of an esoteric alphanumeric (plus symbols) system? ;D
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(And except for the almost unique case of font with tons of easier boulders with friendly landings where else in the world is font 2,3 and 4 actually used/useful?)
Burbage Valley?
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Big slab higgar tor Font 4+
Beyond the end - burbage north 3+
There are things which are incredible and below font 6A.
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I don’t really care as much as it might look, I just think all grading systems are arbitrary and inherently inaccurate, and don’t see this as any worse than others. I think people get attached to ideas for no logical reason.
There’s an attractive simplicity about counting systems using base 10
(And except for the almost unique case of font with tons of easier boulders with friendly landings where else in the world is font 2,3 and 4 actually used/useful?)
I'm sure you're right that people get attached to either v-grades or Font grades for little more than what they are familiar with. However, this system clearly is worse than others. I doubt that Mellow would be as enthusiastic about a system which went:
B1 = v0-
B2 = v0- hard - v0
B3 = v0 hard - v0+
B4 = v0+ hard - v1
B5 = v1 hard - v2
B6 = v2 hard - v3
B7 = v4 - v5
B8 = v6 - v7
B9 = v8 - v9
B10 = >v9
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(And except for the almost unique case of font with tons of easier boulders with friendly landings where else in the world is font 2,3 and 4 actually used/useful?)
Errrrm. Almost every climbing area has plenty to go at at these grades. Yorkshire Grit has a number of crags where these and some grade 5s and low 6s predominate and they're greatly enjoyed by beginners/less able climbers. To lump all of those grades into one is very twatty. You and I might not climb them much but there are thousands out there who do. You're just not going to bump into them at LPT or the Snore. Remember also that most highballs are actually quite easy in the grand scheme of things, just scary. So old VS and HVS solos that are now highballed will be Font 4 or something like that. There's loads of them about.
It really doesn't matter to me what the numbers are. If everyone started calling 7A/V6 climbs a "B3" or a "B10" it doesn't really matter. You might have to go into negative figures for easier climbs which would be a bit insulting to the less able. The real problem is in taking a perfectly acceptable system and trying to replace it with one which has almost no resolution in the grade spectrum that 99% of climbers operate. It's thick as pig shit and cuntish to boot.
Given that the proponents of this new system are only able to lead the globetrotting lifestyles that they do by marketing products to the punter masses, it's pretty galling to see them treat their fans in such a way.
Almost as bad as this is the fact that they moot the idea on an Instagram story so there's no place for it to be pulled apart in public other than on separate forums like these (which barely anyone looks at).
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(And except for the almost unique case of font with tons of easier boulders with friendly landings where else in the world is font 2,3 and 4 actually used/useful?)
When I'm in great shape it's very hard for me to tell the difference between a sustained 6c and a sustained 7b. So is there anywhere in the world were grades like 3a-6b are used and actually useful for climbers?
I imagine the same applies for Adam Ondra but for 8a and 8c. Maybe Ondra, Megos and Ghisolfi should introduce a new grading scale where anything below 7b is 0, stuff up to 8a is C1, 8b to 8c C2, 8c+ is C3, 9a C4, 9a/a+ C5, 9b is C6, 9b/b+ C7, 9b+ C8, hard 9b+/c C9 and 9c C10. C could stand for “cunt” e.g.
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Seems a shit idea to me. Like Reeve said I doubt they’d like that as an alternative. And yeah #prayforfontgrades
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B1 = v0-
B2 = v0- hard - v0
B3 = v0 hard - v0+
B4 = v0+ hard - v1
B5 = v1 hard - v2
B6 = v2 hard - v3
B7 = v4 - v5
B8 = v6 - v7
B9 = v8 - v9
B10 = >v9
This would be a good scale for indoor problems a la the original BUK, except it tops out at v8+, everyone knows there’s nothing harder than v8+ inside!
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I'm trying to think if there is another sport where the elite level athletes deem it necessary to create their own system of scoring? I realise most sports are more binary and less arbitrary than climbing grades... Point stands that the elite are there to push the max grades, score the most points, run the furthest in the least time,loft more of the heavy things etc. Something for us mortals to aspire to.
Seems like a total douche Bro flex move, that succeeds only in failing to serve the community as a whole.
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Maybe they could just stick with Vs and add a "+" and "-" for harder and easier ones in that grade, or perhaps an a,b,c,d or even a .1, .2, .3 up to .9 if they wanted to get really anal.
Actually. Nah, that would never work, no-one has done anything like that in climbing.
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a .1, .2, .3 up to .9 if they wanted to get really anal.
I can’t remember which American climber I was listening to on a podcast, when they were describing that they had assumed 5.11 would be the next climb for them to try after 5.1 on the Yosemite Decimal Scale.
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Hopefully one day Lattice will use all their data to produce an SI bouldering grade based on a platinum-iridium reference problem kept in a Sheffield cellar and V/B grades will be as relevant as furlongs, chains and bushels. That or use font grades.
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It's thick as pig shit and cuntish to boot.
I quite like to employ the "Would I Say It To Their Face?" filter when posting on the internet. While I agree it's not the best idea, I'm not sure abuse is the way to go - particularly on a forum where they have no presence/right to reply. They might not always come across well on social media, but I could say the same about some of the people on here. Sadly, I think the vehemence of some of the responses on here are a reference to who said it rather than what's been said.
Give them the benefit of the doubt for a second and try thinking about what problem they might be trying to solve. Maybe they think that grades above 8A/V11 have got too compressed and they want to widen the grade boundaries of these? As a group, they are in a fairly unique position to understand this issue given the breadth of problems that they've done across a lot of continents. The conflation of the lower grades might just be a poorly thought out afterthought.
I seem to think there was a similar (but opposite) problem with sport grades in the 90s, where the boundaries of 8c/+ got too wide. This was solved by upgrading routes to even things out a bit - stuff like La Rambla and some other Huber routes are all 9a now. If they are saying they want to widen boundaries, an alternative might be to downgrade a whole load of problems, but this would be really hard to do in practice and the backlash would be something else!
I'm just hypothesising, so maybe it is just dick-waving, etc. or maybe it's just a badly thought through solution to a real problem that the Mellow lot perceive. Maybe if the issue with granularity of lower grade problems was fixed then it's a decent, workable idea? I'm unlikely to ever know as I don't climb >8A, but I am willing to keep an open mind and let things play their course.
As Pete succinctly put it :-
I just think all grading systems are arbitrary and inherently inaccurate, and don’t see this as any worse than others.
Grading is not a science, it's an art. We subjectively decide how hard a problem is based on how it feels compared to some other problems, which were also graded subjectively. The moment we think it is any more accurate/definite than this, we're taking the whole thing too seriously.
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It's thick as pig shit and cuntish to boot.
I quite like to employ the "Would I Say It To Their Face?" filter when posting on the internet.
Have you met Will before?
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It's thick as pig shit and cuntish to boot.
I quite like to employ the "Would I Say It To Their Face?" filter when posting on the internet.
Have you met Will before?
Yes, he came across as quite polite and mild mannered.
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It's thick as pig shit and cuntish to boot.
I quite like to employ the "Would I Say It To Their Face?" filter when posting on the internet.
Have you met Will before?
Brilliant :lol:
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You'll notice that I didn't call them twats or cunts, I said that their idea was twatty and cuntish, which is actually quite different. If I was to meet them, which is unlikely, and the topic was raised, I'd certainly let them know what a dumb idea I thought it was.
With this thing coming straight after the "Fred Nicole is holding back climbing" debacle, I think a few choice words aren't completely amiss. The bit that really annoyed me about that was that a loose association of good climbers were trying to unilaterally lay down a new set of rules for everyone else to follow. What was it? "Closed projects aren't a thing in our generation" or something along those lines. And now the same thing again.
Taking your idea of the benefit of their system, let's look at it:
B4 = v9 - v10 = 2 grades into 1
B5 = v11 - v12 easy = 1 and a bit grades into 1
B6 = v12 hard - v13 = 1 grade into 1
B7 = v13 hard - v14 = 1 grade into 1
B8 = v14 hard - v15 = 1 and a bit grades into 1
B9 = v16 = 1 grade into 1
B10 = v17 = 1 grade into 1
So the most affected climbs are all of those below V11 (which affects the vast majority of climbs and climbers) where the resolution is halved. The width of most upper grade brackets aren't actually affected (only V11/soft V12 and hard V14/V15), they've just been shifted a bit.
It sounds like what they actually mean is that there are some climbs knocking around which are graded V12 but feel more similar to V11s (i.e. they need a downgrade), but rather than propose up/downgrades for some problems, they'd like to have a new grading system please.
Instagram is such a circle jerk environment that I don't doubt there will be lots of people congratulating them on their marvellous idea.
:wank:
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B4 = v9 - v10 = 2 grades into 1
2.5 grades really, since that would include the top half of 7B+ too.
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It's thick as pig shit and cuntish to boot.
I quite like to employ the "Would I Say It To Their Face?" filter when posting on the internet.
Have you met Will before?
Yes, he came across as quite polite and mild mannered.
He's a secret cunt.
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Instagram is such a circle jerk environment that I don't doubt there will be lots of people congratulating them on their marvellous idea.
:wank:
I’m sorry you don’t get more likes Will, maybe you need more hashtags or photos of you in your budgie smugglers 😄
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It's thick as pig shit and cuntish to boot.
I quite like to employ the "Would I Say It To Their Face?" filter when posting on the internet.
Have you met Will before?
Yes, he came across as quite polite and mild mannered.
He's a secret cunt.
I've never made a secret of being a cunt.
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Instagram is such a circle jerk environment that I don't doubt there will be lots of people congratulating them on their marvellous idea.
:wank:
I’m sorry you don’t get more likes Will, maybe you need more hashtags or photos of you in your budgie smugglers 😄
Maybe people thing you’re a dating site for curlers?
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Will why don't you reply on their insta page with the replies you've posted here? It's funny, and maybe they'd appreciate a different point of view from outside their circle of jerking?... (And if not, it'd be funny to read the beef..)
I did say that I thought it'd be a 'half-decent suggestion' if they hadn't condensed more at lower than higher grades, perhaps not expressed very well:
I think that if they'd started at V1-V2 and suggested two font grades per one B grade all the way to B10 with 10 being a hypothetical max like on a loudspeaker, instead of condensing at v11 then it would have been a half decent suggestion.
BTW I'm looking forward to your angry letter to my local walls (Boardroom and The Beacon) for reducing my hard-earned 3 different font grades to mere single colour bands. CUNTISHNESS!
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They're called circuits I think?
I'm pretty sure I've replied thrice to this thread without it showing up...
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I quite like to employ the "Would I Say It To Their Face?" filter when posting on the internet. While I agree it's not the best idea, I'm not sure abuse is the way to go - particularly on a forum where they have no presence/right to reply. They might not always come across well on social media, but I could say the same about some of the people on here. Sadly, I think the vehemence of some of the responses on here are a reference to who said it rather than what's been said.
My insulting remark was definitely about the idea. I've no idea who 'the mellow lot' are.
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I asked the same question, bottom of pg 1.
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They’re are a potent cocktail of global super wads keeping it real.
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They're called circuits I think?
I'm pretty sure I've replied thrice to this thread without it showing up...
They are. So, rhetorical question, why is banding 3 current font (or V) grades into one good when it's called 'a circuit', but not good when it's called, say 'B0'. Is it the perceived intent behind the idea? i.e. Colorodo person x suggested it and we don't like them, so it must be wrong.
Disclaimer: Quiet spell at work, I don't care as much as you might think I do.
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They're called circuits I think?
I think circuits are a reasonably intelligent thing to do removing the need for walls to justify the grades they've given something; it's much more likely that a problem will fit into a wider band reducing the hassle they get about specific problems (perhaps).
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It’s easy to think that climbing that you find simple is indistinguishable in difficulty- I certainly used to but when I had to start again from scratch I was amazed that I could clearly differentiate between the challenge of a Diff, Hard Diff, VDiff etc. Quite an eye-opener.
Having said that, I think there are many reasons why wider difficulty bands (ideally ones that aren’t rock climbing grades) make sense for indoor climbing at all difficulty levels, particularly in the case of massive bunches of problems. They’re just temporary after all.
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What cheque said.
Also sure, let's do more circuits outside with a broad grade range. It would be most sensible to keep things more accurate and specific at a level where the vast majority of boulderers do their thing and where problems are usually well established and have some sort of grading consensus. Say up to V10. Above that, where a minor percentage of people boulder and where more problems are newer and unconfirmed, acknowledge this vagueness by just having a 2 or 3 circuits to cover V11-17 :smartass:
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I've just told a bunch of americans to shut up at isatis so I feel pretty comfortable with my comments.
PS. I can't believe we've allowed this utter nonsense to span 4 pages worth of discussion.
Maybe I'm getting towards being in the category of "Should be censored from the internet" :-\
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Thread has been top bantz, gg everyone. Will should be new UK Ambassador to Colorado.