UKBouldering.com
places to visit => indoor walls => competitions => Topic started by: shark on July 08, 2015, 08:56:38 pm
-
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/british-bouldering-championships-2015
(http://i.imgur.com/OvQjbZH.jpg)
The BMC British Bouldering Championships is back in the park at the Cliffhanger Outdoor Festival, Millhouses Park, Sheffield on 11-12 July. It will be a senior-only, IFSC Boulder World Cup style event spread over Saturday and Sunday.
The British Bouldering Championships (BBC) is organised by the BMC and is the national championships in the UK. Since its inception in 1998, it has grown to be a very popular event. It now also forms part of the selection process for the Senior British Bouldering Team.
The Senior Bouldering Team are supported by the Arch Climbing Wall.
Format for 2015
This years event is a IFSC Boulder World Cup style event, with qualifiers on Saturday (11) and Semi-Finals and Finals on Sunday (12). This is a senior category only event and entrants must be born in 1999 or before.
When:
Saturday 11 July - Qualifiers, Sunday 12 July - Semi's & Finals
Where:
Cliffhanger Outdoor Festival, Millhouses Park, Sheffield
2015 age categories:
Seniors must be born in 1999 or before.
Male category - 60 competitors maximum, female - 60 competitors maximum.
Please note - on the day entries are available, but with a maximum number of 60 competitors in the male category , it likely that the male category will be full well in advance of the deadline for entries, so enter early.
Competition format:
A Qualification round with 5 boulders for each category - 5 mins on, 5 mins off.
A Semi-Final round with 4 boulders for each category - 5 mins on, 5 mins off.
A Final round with 4 boulders for each category - 4 mins +.
Qualification and Semi-Final rounds will be climbed onsight, and there will be an observatyion period for the Final round with isolation used throughout.
Approximate grades of problems: Senior female V3-V8/V5-V8, Senior male V4-V9/V7-V10.
Competition timings:
Saturday 11 July
Splitting the males into two groups and starting order for qualification will be derived from the 2014 BBC rankings and then at random (if you have not competed in the BBC's before) and will be posted online on Friday evening.
0900: Male registration/isolation opens
1000: Male registration/isolation closes
1015: Male qualification begins – 2 groups – 5 blocs – 5min on, 5 min off
1330: Male qualification finishes
1330: Female registration/isolation opens
1430: Female registration/isolation closes
1445: Female qualification begins – 1 group – 5 blocs – 5min on, 5 min off
1730: Qualification finishes
Sunday 12 July
0900: Isolation for semi-finalists opens
1000: Isolation for semi-finalists closes
1030: Semi Final begins – 4 blocs – 5 min on, 5 min off
1245: Semi Final Finishes
1330: Isolation opens
1430: Isolation closes
1520: Presentation of finalists and observation period
1530: Final begins - 4 blocs, 4mins plus
1730: Final finishes
1745: Prize giving
This timetable is subject to change at any time.
Entry fee
•Senior competitors: £30.00
Prizes
• Senior female & male: 1st = £500 / 2nd = £250 / 3rd = £125
The 2014 national champions
Senior Male: Dave Barrans
Senior Female: Michaela Tracey
Full rules available here.
How to enter
• All competitors must be a BMC, MCofS or MCI member.
• Parental consent must be given for any competitor aged under 18 years on the day of the event - the parental consent form can be downloaded in the entry process.
• All applicants will receive an email confirming receipt of their application. They will then receive a further email containing full event information two days before the event.
Enter online here
Spectator tickets
Please note that each competitor will get a complimentary spectator ticket with their entry. Further specator tickets can be purchased here. Note if you wish spectators to accompany you into the the park before the show starts they must by tickets in advance.
BMC members can save up to a third off your Cliffhanger ticket with the code BMC33. Adult tickets £4 (regular price £6) - offer expires midnight 26/6/15. You can still get in for £5 if you book online right through the festival weekend. Offer does not apply to ticket purchases on the gate.
Startlists
Male Category startlist will be posted here on the 10 July.
Female Category startlist will be posted here on the 10 July.
Please note that emails do not always reach their destination, it is therefore your responsibility to contact the BMC if email confirmation has not been received by Friday 10 July.
Further information
Contact Rob Adie (BMC Competition Climbing Officer) tel: 0161 438 3318 / email: rob@thebmc.co.uk
The BBC problems are set with Entre-Prises climbing holds. Entre-Prises are the official supplier of bolt-on holds to the BMC.
-
Any plans to broadcast the event?
-
UKB-TV!! That's what we need :)
-
Like fuck
-
Like fuck
You could have an agony aunt style help show called 'Dense Sense'. It's a winner.
;)
-
I would of thought you'd be the man for the job, given your duet with Peter Leavy on Look North.
-
Last ditch effort to promote this?! The BMC is pumping money into this event, yet has made no effort in promoting it via social media. It's almost conspicuous by its absence from either their main twitter account of the comps one. One news items on their website on 17 June. Seems a bit weird/incompetent, given the interest in comp bouldering and the fact that Shauna's in it (wasn't last year)?
-
and the fact that Shauna's in it
"Cliffhanger comp this weekend - Shauna's in it"
tweet that
job done
-
maybe add
"meet Dense, let him hear you whine"
to attract aspirant 7C trainees
-
Yes I wouldn't have known there was a cliffhanger comp on if I didn't see Percy spraying panels. Whoever deals with media or whatever you want to call it at the bmc needs to be sacked, it's supposed to be the biggest British comp in the calendar.
-
... along with whoever used a word art banner for that poster...
-
Is there some kind of conflict-of-interest thing here that prevents the BMC actively pushing this, based on the fact its happening at the paid-entry Heason-run Cliffhanger event? I.e. you've got to pay to get in to a trade show to watch it. I.e. would amount to a members organization, partially funded by public money, promoting an event to the effect of lining the pockets of a private promoter? I have no idea if this is the reasoning, but its a possibility.
-
Is there some kind of conflict-of-interest thing here that prevents the BMC actively pushing this, based on the fact its happening at the paid-entry Heason-run Cliffhanger event? I.e. you've got to pay to get in to a trade show to watch it. I.e. would amount to a members organization, partially funded by public money, promoting an event to the effect of lining the pockets of a private promoter? I have no idea if this is the reasoning, but its a possibility.
It hasn't stopped them promoting, via Twitter and Facebook, an Alpine race organised for the sole purpose of selling a cough-mixture tasting 'energy' (ie unhealthy) drink made by a company with a poor track record when it comes to the environmental impact of their stunts. Come on BMC, you can do better than this.
-
Is there some kind of conflict-of-interest thing here that prevents the BMC actively pushing this
I think that's pretty unlikely. More likely they assumed Cliffhanger would be doing sufficient promotion, it being the major attraction at the event which presumably needs to be a success to continue. Maybe I'm just getting blind to it, but I haven't noticed as much promotion for Cliffhanger this year.
-
It's getting coverage on Facebook
-
Maybe I'm just getting blind to it, but I haven't noticed as much promotion for Cliffhanger this year.
I'm the opposite, I notice the small billboards everywhere. I suppose I do live 100m from the park though. I doubt there's any big conspiracy and the BMC are extremely good at promotion/social media generally, I would say. Which is why I noticed there's been virtually zero promotion of the comp.
-
Any plans to broadcast the event?
I emailed Rob Adie to ask and he simply replied "No we are not webcasting the BBC’s this year"
No explanation why
-
Any plans to broadcast the event?
I emailed Rob Adie to ask and he simply replied "No we are not webcasting the BBC’s this year"
No explanation why
Cost.
-
Is there some kind of conflict-of-interest thing here that prevents the BMC actively pushing this
I think that's pretty unlikely. More likely they assumed Cliffhanger would be doing sufficient promotion, it being the major attraction at the event which presumably needs to be a success to continue. Maybe I'm just getting blind to it, but I haven't noticed as much promotion for Cliffhanger this year.
I must admit I've not noticed much this year either, but like you I've probably tuned out to them. The same way I've tuned out to adverts at the start of youtube clips. It is a bit odd if other folk are noticing a lack of promotion too, as Matt Heason is usually on the ball with publicity, if the number plugs he'd squeeze into every BMC peak area meeting is anything to go by.
-
Any plans to broadcast the event?
I emailed Rob Adie to ask and he simply replied "No we are not webcasting the BBC’s this year"
No explanation why
Could someone periscope (https://www.periscope.tv/) it instead? Its pretty cool for impromptu live streaming...
-
Am I wrong in thinking that this is pretty par for the course though?
There seems to be very little interest in these comps and very little support/organisation from the BMC, especially for the men's comps.
-
Am I wrong in thinking that this is pretty par for the course though?
There seems to be very little interest in these comps and very little support/organisation from the BMC, especially for the men's comps.
Now, if it were a HILLWALKING competition...
-
Just thought I would chime in to say that I haven't seen anything about it either.
I'm pretty keen to go along and watch really, and if I hadn't seen it on here, then I wouldn't have been any the wiser...
-
Am I wrong in thinking that this is pretty par for the course though?
There seems to be very little interest in these comps and very little support/organisation from the BMC, especially for the men's comps.
Now, if it were a HILLWALKING competition...
what would the senior age point be?
I'd be keen
-
Anyone know any qualifying results?
Edit: see below...
-
Mens:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJpg6IpWcAEpsOv.jpg:small)
-
Womens:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJpgyRHWgAECEEa.jpg:small)
-
Jesus what were they taken with, a potato?
-
Ha! Sorry just copied from the bmc twitter
-
In summary: jules qualified, stu didn't.
;-)
-
Yeah? Well fuck you.
Bum.
-
Yeah? Well fuck you.
Bum.
Sorry if that came across as dickish, was meant in fun.
Apologies again if I misjudged it horribly.
-
So was my reply, so don't worry. Jules says it made her laugh.
You can imagine how relaxed the atmosphere is in our house tonight.
-
Ha!
-
Liam Lonsdale is streaming it live via Periscope.
https://twitter.com/liamlonsdale/status/620182237670195200
Think it works on a web view etc rather than downloading the app coverage looks good so far - see yer!
-
Liam's doing a great job on the commentary too. Waddage. He also says he's doing the finals too.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/12/5c284467ae21a50e516a859d156565d3.jpg)
-
Semis nearly over. Liam is doing a great job filming and commentating on this - as well as answering viewers questions. Footage is perfectly watchable. Follow via one of the links above or via @liamlonsdale on both Twitter and Periscope iirc.
Great to see this when the organisers don't seem to have managed a stream...
-
What time will the finals be?
-
15:30
-
Watched a bit of the semis - wall and problems looked ace, plus amusing commentary from Percy. Nearly as good as the caving tunnel!
-
periscope is blocked at work >:(
anyone got any updates?
-
Sounds like Ty has just won the Mens
-
And Shauna for the Women
-
Cheers Chris
-
Well the BMC did themselves proud (sarcasm emoticon) with their tweet of the winners "1st Shauna Corset". Now deleted it would seem.
Seems bizarre that the only (excellent) streaming (or anything for that matter) coverage was by Liam done off the cuff..
It's almost as if they didn't want anyone to know about it!
-
Great stuff from Liam.
-
Great stuff from Liam.
Absolutely. You've a commentary career there Liam - just the right balance of interest, description and humour for me.
-
Is their somewhere to watch highlights or anything? Ty is a beast
-
If you get the Periscope app and follow @liamlonsdale it archives all his transmissions (or whatever they're called!).. So they should all be there.. Inc finals.
-
I hardy ever watch the comps but found myself at home this afternoon and noticed the link on here to Liam's periscope stream so had a look.
Awesome job Liam! Good commentary, engaging and as good as the world cup streams I've seen (admittedly only 2 or 3 over the last couple of years). What I don't get though is how the IFSC appear unable to do any better than a bloke with a phone! And are they wasting a shit-load of money employing whoever are their media consultants?
What I also don't get is how a keen talented guy with a phone can be the only available source of coverage of the country's premier bouldering competition. Can anyone enlighten me why there appears to be no support or interest from the BMC (if it is them who organise the national champs?) in providing coverage? Given it appears that decent coverage can be achieved for the price of a tripod and a pay-as-you-go contract it seems odd not to bother.
-
If you get the Periscope app and follow @liamlonsdale it archives all his transmissions (or whatever they're called!).. So they should all be there.. Inc finals.
Just done this and can't see anything, any tips for a luddite?
-
BMC_Comps appear to be the ones to follow on Twitter. Mentions it was being filmed for bmctv.
-
If you get the Periscope app and follow @liamlonsdale it archives all his transmissions (or whatever they're called!).. So they should all be there.. Inc finals.
Just done this and can't see anything, any tips for a luddite?
After following Liam on periscope - look at his profile and click recent:
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/12/ff9307265b5feb1f74f1923f59dd83e4.jpg)
-
I don't get the recent tab? Just following and followers
-
winners "1st Shauna Corset".
Wish I'd watched it now. Change from vests.
-
What I also don't get is how a keen talented guy with a phone can be the only available source of coverage of the country's premier bouldering competition. Can anyone enlighten me why there appears to be no support or interest from the BMC (if it is them who organise the national champs?) in providing coverage? Given it appears that decent coverage can be achieved for the price of a tripod and a pay-as-you-go contract it seems odd not to bother.
Ill ask.
-
Given it appears that decent coverage can be achieved for the price of a tripod and a pay-as-you-go contract it seems odd not to bother.
I wonder what contract he's on as that will have been a significant chunk of data to stream and could be worth switching to if its not too expensive. :P
-
What I also don't get is how a keen talented guy with a phone can be the only available source of coverage of the country's premier bouldering competition. Can anyone enlighten me why there appears to be no support or interest from the BMC (if it is them who organise the national champs?) in providing coverage? Given it appears that decent coverage can be achieved for the price of a tripod and a pay-as-you-go contract it seems odd not to bother.
Ill ask.
Alex - got back to me very swiftly on the Marketing.
In terms of what was done surrounding and to promote the event:
- The standard article - https://www.thebmc.co.uk/british-bouldering-championships-2015
- A promo article - https://www.thebmc.co.uk/hot-competition-who-to-watch-in-the-british-bouldering-champs-this-weekend
- 2 page mention in Summit magazine as part of Cliffhanger
- Round-up news: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/landman-and-coxsey-crowned-new-british-bouldering-champs
- Instagram photos throughout, including winners on podium
- Facebook gallery
- Being filmed for BMC TV – out soon.
- Facebook and twitter the week before
Normally there’d be a pre-publicity article, and some social media a few weeks out but there was were a few other draws on Officer's time at the time such as the lead up to the Nepal Charity Auction (which finished the same weekend and raised 24K). For the future, there are plans to have someone allocated for major BMC events purely running the social media, pre, during and post event.
With regard to the live feed Rob Adie, Comps Officer is on holiday so I cant ask him - it may have been down to cost.
-
Just for clarity, the wall for Cliffhanger was paid for by Sheffield City Council, along with all the associated stuff like warm-up facilities, changing areas, isolation area, toilets, power, etc. This is all stuff that has to be paid for and put in the park several days before the event and then covered by full-time security people to stop the public climbing about on stuff. Sheffield CC also supply the mats and all the wall building materials. I don't know what the total cost of Sheffield CC's investment was in this competition, but I would imagine they get very little change out of £30K....
The BMC didn't pay any money to Sheffield CC to support the event other than supplying their comps officer to run the BBC event and paying their route setters. The BMC also provide the climbing holds (which are donated by sponsors). Obviously they also rope in a raft of volunteers to judge, brush holds, look after competitors and make sure they are in the right place at the right time, etc, etc.
From the BMC's point of view, they get a free facility in the park in the midst of a busy outdoor festival to hold their national championships and publicise themselves. Tom's earlier mention of the BMC pumping money into the event is not correct.
-
Thanks for the info Si and Percy. So what you've described looks like the premier indoor bouldering competition in the UK is not financially well supported by the BMC - an organisation whose reasons for existence (and taxpayer funding & subs) are 'to support climbing' (and mountaineering and hillwalking).
It sounds like the BMC did carry out a fair amount of publicity work; except no live stream - arguably the most important bit. If someone from the BMC was being paid to film it then it could have been live streamed, as Liam demonstrated.
I realise 'climbing' is a broad church (with a leaky roof), but it still seems odd that the BMC appear to be lacklustre with their support of our only national open bouldering comp. I don't even really care that much about the comp scene, but if I were a competitor or coach I think I'd wonder what the BMC's role was, and whether it's fulfilling it by not stepping up to the plate to provide significant funding nor bothering to live stream the event.
Percy, 'full-time security company' whatever... Instant cost-saving = plenty of climbing bums would be quite happy to spend a few nights dossing on the mats for 'bargain-bargain much cheapness'. Or more logically - run the comp in a pre-exisitng climbing wall (with doors that lock and alarms and everything) instead of a custom-built (i.e. expensive) temporary marquee in a public park...
Is there really not a suitable indoor wall in the UK prepared to run this event over a weekend for significantly less than it costs to set up a marquee in a public park during a trade-show? I smell Sheffield-centric cliques at work.
It's lucky that Sheffield City Council are prepared to financially support the BBCs.
-
Sheffield centric cliques at work? You're out of your mind Pete. Getting climbers to police the wall at night by dossing on mats? You're out of your mind Pete.
-
I wish there was an organisation that could unite all the walls in the UK and might be much better placed to organise such competitions. But I reckon, such an organisation should:
A: Be way more receptive to new members and not insist on ridiculous and protracted entry/aspirant times...
B: Seriously look at it's membership costs and realise it might serve the community far better if it wasn't a "big boys only" club.
C: Actually appear to offer something more than a window sticker...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Where's the vid?!!!
-
Why, do you not believe the event took place unless you see the vid?
-
yep :popcorn:
-
I wish there was an organisation that could unite all the walls in the UK and might be much better placed to organise such competitions. But I reckon, such an organisation should:
A: Be way more receptive to new members and not insist on ridiculous and protracted entry/aspirant times...
B: Seriously look at it's membership costs and realise it might serve the community far better if it wasn't a "big boys only" club.
C: Actually appear to offer something more than a window sticker...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Did you have an organisation in mind?
www.abcwalls.co.uk
-
Why, do you not believe the event took place unless you see the vid?
No, but I'd like to see it.
I couldn't go to the event, and am keen to watch it.
For a national council, tasked with promoting the sport of climbing, it seems a bit :shit: to take over a week to put together footage of the national bouldering competition.
Local wall competitions don't take that long, and they don't have a specifically hired person to do it.
-
I wish there was an organisation that could unite all the walls in the UK and might be much better placed to organise such competitions. But I reckon, such an organisation should:
A: Be way more receptive to new members and not insist on ridiculous and protracted entry/aspirant times...
B: Seriously look at it's membership costs and realise it might serve the community far better if it wasn't a "big boys only" club.
C: Actually appear to offer something more than a window sticker...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Did you have an organisation in mind?
www.abcwalls.co.uk
Ah! They would do, don't you think?
Surely a far better group to organise indoor climbing competitions?
I know that was not their original remit, but still.
That would be something I could get behind.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Why, do you not believe the event took place unless you see the vid?
No, but I'd like to see it.
I couldn't go to the event, and am keen to watch it.
For a national council, tasked with promoting the sport of climbing, it seems a bit :shit: to take over a week to put together footage of the national bouldering competition.
Local wall competitions don't take that long, and they don't have a specifically hired person to do it.
Yeah it sucks balls - i'll have lost interest by the time they get round to it
-
Given they only just released the Vid of the junior camps that happened on 27th June, I wouldn't gold your breath
-
Is there really not a suitable indoor wall in the UK prepared to run this event over a weekend for significantly less than it costs to set up a marquee in a public park during a trade-show? I smell Sheffield-centric cliques at work.
It's lucky that Sheffield City Council are prepared to financially support the BBCs.
I remember watching one round of the BBC's at the Outdoor Show in ExCel (London) - I wonder if they (the BMC) are keen to put the comps on as part trade shows to get non-climbers interested, which is part of their remit.
If it was held at a climbing wall, it would mostly only be climbers that went to see it, though it would be significantly cheaper...
As a parallel, of the IFSC World Cup events - how many are held at climbing walls? Toronto is the only one I think? The rest are in public spaces, presumably to capture the non-climbing crowd too and generate more interest in competitive climbing.
-
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/bmc-british-bouldering-championships-2015
-
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/bmc-british-bouldering-championships-2015
Seriously, a 4min video?
-
About as disappointing as the Foundry competition video where moon won. Glad I watched it live!
-
Is there really not a suitable indoor wall in the UK prepared to run this event over a weekend for significantly less than it costs to set up a marquee in a public park during a trade-show? I smell Sheffield-centric cliques at work.
It's lucky that Sheffield City Council are prepared to financially support the BBCs.
Yes of course there are walls that have the facilities to host the BBC in front of a couple of hundred spectators, just like 2014 when we hosted the BBC.
But the idea is to have the BBC in front of a few thousand spectators hence it needs to go to temporary wall with lots of room for spectators.
-
As a parallel, of the IFSC World Cup events - how many are held at climbing walls? Toronto is the only one I think? The rest are in public spaces, presumably to capture the non-climbing crowd too and generate more interest in competitive climbing.
Toronto has moved on from the climbing wall host, this year it was in an ice hockey arena.
Thinking back over the years there have been very few BWC's held at climbing walls. Toronto was for 2 years. Vienna was at a wall but it was outside with space for a thousand or so spectators. Greifensee (Zurich) was a similar deal but maybe only space for around 750 spectators. Reunion was a permanent wall inside a sports centre.
-
Was that video an advert for the proper video? Or was that it?!
-
Is there some kind of conflict-of-interest thing here that prevents the BMC actively pushing this, based on the fact its happening at the paid-entry Heason-run Cliffhanger event? I.e. you've got to pay to get in to a trade show to watch it. I.e. would amount to a members organization, partially funded by public money, promoting an event to the effect of lining the pockets of a private promoter? I have no idea if this is the reasoning, but its a possibility.
The private promoter is Sheffield City Council. Cliffhanger is not Matt's event, although he has done a grand job of making most people think it is! SCC underwrite the whole event, they lost a mint when the rest of Cliffhanger got rained off 3 years ago, the BBC still went a head at considerable cost to SCC. So no, you are wrong.
I have my own theories but won't be posting them publicly :)
-
Was that video an advert for the proper video? Or was that it?!
+1 ??
-
Is there really not a suitable indoor wall in the UK prepared to run this event over a weekend for significantly less than it costs to set up a marquee in a public park during a trade-show? I smell Sheffield-centric cliques at work.
It's lucky that Sheffield City Council are prepared to financially support the BBCs.
Yes of course there are walls that have the facilities to host the BBC in front of a couple of hundred spectators, just like 2014 when we hosted the BBC.
But the idea is to have the BBC in front of a few thousand spectators hence it needs to go to temporary wall with lots of room for spectators.
That is a very valid argument.
But (and I may be wrong) wasn't this held inside a pay-to-enter event?
I would be able to get behind the ABC in conjunction with the BMC if they could organise such competitions separately.
I mean, I think we could contribute to the cost and if enough walls chipped in for national Lead and Bouldering competitions, that cost would not be onerous on any party.
Then ABC membership would seem worthwhile to little walls like mine (I now run two, the membership costs are too high for such low margin operations) and the community would be that much richer and better served.
I'm not anti- ABC (my post was a gentle prod to try and start a debate).
They do what they set out to do and not badly.
I just feel there is so much more that could be done.
The BMC remit is too broad for them to ever be able to devote the attention or funds that would turn this around. We, boulderers, are a minority group, as are Comp lead climbers etc etc and vastly outnumbered by other "Mountain" sport participants.
Those two groups are closely aligned in their needs and wants and are more closely connected to the Climbing wall industry than they are to any other aspect of Outdoor Pursuits.
And there are a lot of walls now.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/bmc-british-bouldering-championships-2015
Seriously, a 4min video?
...with only about 5 seconds of ty topping something? when there isnt enough footage of him about as it is...?
-
How does your mind work omm? What are you trying to say?
-
Seriously?
Instead of being an arse, give a counter argument or convince me of my error.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
I honestly don't know what you're trying to say
-
Dense you've clearly got a viewpoint on this topic so why don't you just state it - so we can tell you you're out of your mind or just post abstract comments implying that we know better...
-
+1 to the video comments, cool footage cool problems now where's the rest of it??
-
It's odd that people put so much effort into making edited comp highlight vids when all most climbers seem to want is unedited footage of the comp, streamed if possible, or released next day or two if not.
-
I agree with r-man. I have no opinion Pete, this is the 2nd time I'll say I don't see where matts going with his preamble.
-
+1 to the video comments, cool footage cool problems now where's the rest of it??
BMC say there isnt any
-
It is also odd that the NGB for (competition) climbing haven't made anything of the fact that we have a European Champion in Bouldering, Aidan Roberts Youth A http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=1607&cat=82 (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=1607&cat=82)
-
From facebook:
Me: just stick the unedited footage up. A 4 min 'trailer/advert' isnt what people interested in comp climbing want to see
BMC: If 10 people email alex@thebmc.co.uk and ask for it, we'll see if we can give it a try.
Please email everyone. Dont leave it to someone else!
-
Done
-
:thumbsup:
-
It is also odd that the NGB for (competition) climbing haven't made anything of the fact that we have a European Champion in Bouldering, Aidan Roberts Youth A http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=1607&cat=82 (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=1607&cat=82)
Nice work Graeme, and great effort Aidan Roberts! Do we have more info on Aidan? Had a quick look at the IFSC site. Not much info there.
Unfortunately, a lot of people putting on commercial events/shows will only really be interested in what they can add to the spectacle, and less interested in what's representative.
Great effort by you over the years, to bring the comps to Sheffield :2thumbsup:
-
Done.
-
Done
-
Done :2thumbsup:
-
Is Messenger going to start getting viagra emails next? ;)
-
Right, about this footage.
As you know, we've got BMC TV. And each year, Sport England pay enough for us to film some BMC events. This gets shared out, from walking days to local area fests to comps.Comps take up at least half of the filming days, which is great.
This is all very much on a BMC-sized budget, not a BBC-sized budget. So, think two psyched young guys with two DSLRS and a laptop living out of their van. Or car. Or someone's sofa.
Generally, it works. They're on it. They're keen. We get a whole range of films showing our work, all on within a week or two of each event.
The first couple of years, the highlights films of the BBCs and the BLCCs worked. We didn't have any good promo films of these events to show potential sponsors or promote the events for the next year. But now we have, and, to me, it feels like things also have moved on with people's expectation level. People want live or IFSC-style comprehensive footage afterwards.
We have a good set of these promo films now. We could try something different for the next major events. So, keep the feedback coming to alex@thebmc.co.uk and we'll feed it all in and attempt to give it a try. If it works, great. If no-one watches it, we'll rethink.
As far as these BBCs go, their brief was to do a highlights film, so they won't have captured everything. I've had 5 emails to far, so if 5 more people want it, I'll ask them to put some long rough cuts online.
Also, someone mentioned Aidan's recent win. There was also Max Milne and Hamish Pokotar. We've tweeted that, FB'ed it and are trying to get an interview, so look out for that.
Always interested in thoughts on all of the above, so email alex@thebmc.co.uk .
Cheers
Alex, BMC.
-
Thanks Alex.
"We've tweeted that, FB'ed it "
What's that? ;D
-
Thanks Alex.
"We've tweeted that, FB'ed it "
What's that? ;D
FingerBoarded..
-
Thanks Alex.
"We've tweeted that, FB'ed it "
What's that? ;D
FingerBoarded..
8)
So that's a gold for Aidan, silver for Max, and a great sixth for Hamish. Nice work lads. Girls? Sorry, will check.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bmc_comps
-
No, Hamish silver, max 6th. All on the "effort youth" thread...
-
OK comp fans
Got 10 emails ;)
The guys are editing some more footage this weekend. Individual climbers on individual problems, will see how it comes together and keep you posted.
-
Lord you misunderstand pigeon. I emailed for the greater good not because I'm a comp fan!
-
I just dont understand why they couldnt set up one little camera on a tripod and video the whole thing, then stick it up?
-
BMC: If 10 people email alex@thebmc.co.uk and ask for it, we'll see if we can give it a try.
Done.
Always interested in thoughts on all of the above, so email alex@thebmc.co.uk .
Cheers
Alex, BMC.
Thanks for being receptive to feedback, and for detailing the current situation.
In case the guys who made the 4min film are reading this, I'd like to make it clear that it was a nice little short and nicely put together. The issue isn't with the quality of that film, just that fans are keen to see comps live and unedited. And if live isn't possible then unedited and as soon as possible after the event.
-
Thanks for replying Alex.
I understand the BMC isn't a public entertainment entity and much of its remit involves either promoting things or lobbying people. However could the BMC not pay the same camera people the same amount and come out with both:
the highlights/promotional material (which is of no interest to 99.9% of climbers) and
film a live stream (which is what climbers want)?
Two birds killed with one camera person (except you said you pay for two). You might need to find one new camera person, happy in front of as well as behind the lens.
Surely this isn't rocket science - I'm not really bothered about watching comps but even I know there's a demand/expectation for:
a. live streams of significant comps i.e. national 'champs' and international
b. footage that can be played back, either in full or edited (but not 'promo clips' length)
If it sounds like I'm excited about comps footage I'm not really - it just seems like something the BMC could do well (although I suspect committees are involved, which can stiffle innovative thinking). Liam's live stream showed how good it can be for a very low cost - i.e. very cheap equipment and a simple format: knowledgeable talkative person with a lens, web link and a platform which allows viewer feedback.
-
No, Hamish silver, max 6th. All on the "effort youth" thread...
Hey, thanks for the correction. All on the BMC twitter feed. Sorry guys, simply my mistake.
Great effort :beer2:
-
Will liam's live feed be streaming as a 'replay' thing on youtube do you know?
-
Yes, the ideal is live stream, and we have live streamed comps in the past.
You're right, things move fast. 4G + Periscope opens up a whole new world, as Liam jumped on.
When we first started working on BMC TV a few years ago, having a highlights film within a week seemed ambitious. Now it seems slightly dated.
Question back to you guys. Would you want to watch live streams / unedited footage of lead comps, or only bouldering?
cheers
alex.
-
I have no TV licence, so unedited footage I can watch is better for me personally. I enjoy the bouldering but find lead comps a bit of a bore to watch - same goes for most of my mates, many who would say they're sports climbers and not boulderers.
Cheers for taking peoples thoughts on board Alex.
Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk
-
Probably not as much interest currently in the lead comps becasue the UK has failed to produce a competitor. If there was a decent brit lead comp climber ther ewould be more of an audience.
If it was done well (not necessarily expensively, the two aren't the same), the BMC could use the live-stream to publicise all sorts of 'good things' that it does, to an audience who it might usually struggle to communicate with.
= increased support, participation at events, subs, funding etc. etc.
-
Hi, can anyone help?
I've been trying to find info on the IFSC website, so I can put up the results of all competitors in the Youth Comps - both male and female. Unfortunately, my phone doesn't like the table, and I can't access the details.
It's great, of course, if we can give support to all competitors.
Congratulations to everyone involved.
:2thumbsup:
Thanks to Amie at the BMC for your input.
-
Personally I would not watch lead climbing...
-
Will liam's live feed be streaming as a 'replay' thing on youtube do you know?
Shouldn't be, IIRC Periscope save it for a day only then it disappears. Shame but still better than nothing.
However while I think youtube used to charge for live streaming I believe they stopped doing so a few years ago, so (echoing much of the thread), in theory it shouldn't cost much extra to put it through the service, although I understand that much of the cost would come from what surrounds it.
Personally I like watching lead comps but again its down to the competitors, things like the rivalry of Jain Kim and Mina Markovic is a large part of what makes the world cups interesting
-
I've been trying to find info on the IFSC website, so I can put up the results of all competitors in the Youth Comps - both male and female. Unfortunately, my phone doesn't like the table, and I can't access the details.
Something like this?
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag121/Fatneck76/Youth%20Results_zps41gsq18t.jpg)
Full list of results here (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/results)
-
Question back to you guys. Would you want to watch live streams / unedited footage of lead comps, or only bouldering?
For me - bouldering only. I rarely sport climb anyway, but also find it a bit too slow to watch - even the format of one-chance to get the highest (and the quickest) isn't quite as tense as bouldering where it plays out over a number of problems and there's all the to'ing and fro'ing between who's winning.
-
I wouldn't watch a lead comp if you paid my TV licence for the year.
-
I've been trying to find info on the IFSC website, so I can put up the results of all competitors in the Youth Comps - both male and female. Unfortunately, my phone doesn't like the table, and I can't access the details.
Something like this?
etc
Full list of results here (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/results)
I was hopping to provide details of all the British competitors, female and male, to give a positive shout out to all. We had a team of 15 in total. Well done to everyone taking part.
-
I wouldn't watch a lead comp if you paid my TV licence for the year.
Somewhere between Dense and Durbs for me (thats not some sort of double entendre..)... I think the bloddering comps have a pretty good format in the semi & final stage... enough going on to keep you interested - not too many pauses or gaps to make you bored..
I think what frustrates me (and probably others) is that Liam did a top job with a phone and a www connection... presumably for nada.. why couldnt the organisers do something better? Or the same?
(I even suggested periscoping it on here a couple of days before...)..
-
I think some of the frustration stems from the fact that as there was no live stream, a decent length video would come out at least showing all of the male and female problems getting done. As has been mentioned, expectations around coverage has shifted.
-
Hi comp fans
Apologies for taking a week, but our film guys were busy. Thanks for all feedback, and we've just uploaded a longer edit of the 2015 British Bouldering Champs to BMCTV:
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/bbc-2015-more-action?current-channel=2015
This uses what footage they had - and could cut together - to follow individual climbers on problems.
Hope you enjoy watching it. It's not a full, raw, edit like you'd see after an event had been live streamed, but it does give more of an idea.
For 2016 BBCs, I'll pass all your feedback on to the comps guys and - hopefully - collaborate with them to do a live stream, rather than edited highlights. And failing, that, we'll go Periscope crazy.
Cheers
Alex.
-
Can I just say that, whilst there are elements of the comp organisation that could be improved, it's really great to see the BMC responding positively to criticism like this.
Having said that, without watching the video, I'll bet it's shit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
What stu said
-
Give Littlefield a bit of air time and suddenly he's an authority on all things! :devil-smiley:
-
Give Littlefield a bit of air time and suddenly he's an authority on all things! :devil-smiley:
That's a Little-un-fair...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Sorry dense, you'd been a bit quiet recently and I assumed the job of UKB authority on all things was up for grabs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Just not a lot of nonsense going on so no need.
-
Can I just say that, whilst there are elements of the comp organisation that could be improved, it's really great to see the BMC responding positively to criticism like this.
Having said that, without watching the video, I'll bet it's shit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I watched it (or rather skipped forward through it). It's just an overlong trailer. It's not exactly a highlights show. Think slow-mo, music, arty shots, but... nothing of substance.
It's just...
pointless.
The IFSC footage upsets me, because it's done so badly. But at least there's a point to it, and if it were executed a bit better then it would be worth watching.
What saddens me about all this is just the misguided nature of it all. I'm sure everyone involved is all very nice, but somehow detached from reality.
Nevermind.
I read earlier that sport england are considering a mixed economy model, rather than spunking all their money on one NGB per sport. JTFC I hope so. And it would be about time.
-
I read earlier that sport england are considering a mixed economy model, rather than spunking all their money on one NGB per sport. JTFC I hope so. And it would be about time.
Interesting, where did you read that?
-
Can I just say that, whilst there are elements of the comp organisation that could be improved, it's really great to see the BMC responding positively to criticism like this.
Having said that, without watching the video, I'll bet it's shit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I watched it (or rather skipped forward through it). It's just an overlong trailer. It's not exactly a highlights show. Think slow-mo, music, arty shots, but... nothing of substance.
+1. Clearly put together by someone who has never appreciated the difference between a good and bad climbing vid, ie I want to see how something happened, not how great the film makers were at slapping together a load of different shots and angles.
-
Hi Guys
The guys have done their best with what they captured. Short of a time machine, there's not much more we could do there.
Let us know what your ideal comp footage would be like, and we can feed it back in. Here or alex@thebmc.co.uk.
From what I'm getting so far, people would like:
a live stream
a commentator
showing all the competitors
on all the problems
in the qualifiers, semis and finals
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing
available afterwards
high production quality
wouldn't pay for it
And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why?
Keep it coming!
-
From what I'm getting so far, people would like:
a live stream
a commentator
showing all the competitors
on all the problems
in the qualifiers, semis and finals
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing
available afterwards
high production quality
wouldn't pay for it
the moon on a stick
And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why?
Keep it coming!
-
I have very few real complaints about IFSC footage, and those few are usually just technical filming / streaming issues. And the lack of moon on a stick.
-
And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why?
The crapness of the IFSC footage was discussed in another thread. Main points being because a) the camera work was bad, basically jumping between male and female competitors midway through a problem (In lots of comps they use splitscreens to show both, which works well) or else having ridiculous close-ups on someone's fingers, face etc, when the viewer wants to be able to see what's going on, b) having bad commentators who don't know what they're on about and c) streaming sometimes not working or other technical problems.
Hope this helps. It's great that you're looking for feedback.
-
I have very few real complaints about IFSC footage, and those few are usually just technical filming / streaming issues. And the lack of moon on a stick.
Seconded.
Its not so much the 'filming', its absolutely everything else that they do.
Location, commentary, streaming issues, website, allowing Jule Wurm to quit...
-
This is just over the top whinging now, saying the IFSC footage is always bad isn't true.
IFSC footage is sometimes really well done. Often there are niggles, but usually they are different niggles from comp to comp. It can be frustrating because one round it seems like they've got the hang of it, then the next round there are tons of issues. It's probably just the nature of the (free) beast - sometimes they have to use footage from the hosts, sometimes the venue doesn't have decent internet. etc. etc.
And sometimes the route-setters just ruin everything. :lol:
-
in the qualifiers, semis and finals
Realistically, how many people would watch qualifiers? Four way split screen is a bit of a nightmare. Can't say I miss the IFSC qualis that much.
wouldn't pay for it
Actually, if it meant a decent stream and consistently decent camerawork, I would pay a couple of quid for it.
-
This is just over the top whinging now, saying the IFSC footage is always bad isn't true.
It's probably just the nature of the (free) beast - sometimes they have to use footage from the hosts, sometimes the venue doesn't have decent internet. etc. etc.
IMO they shouldn't be even hosting in venues where they can't provide a decent streaming platform. Its all well and good heading out into the arse end of China for a round of the WC, but if no one but 5 chinese locals get to turn up and watch, then what is the point?
Compare with Cham lead WC, and you can see the crowd.
(https://camooj.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/male-finalists.png)
If they even paid £2.50 to come in, then that should happily cover decent footage? Along with some smart use of adverts between competitors etc, then I think it should really cover itself? If the major competitions of our sport aren't capable of providing a half decent coverage of themselves, then what right does anyone have to try and get olympic coverage?
-
From what I'm getting so far, people would like:
a live stream. yes. Anything else apart from the next one is gravy.
a commentator. that goes without saying
showing all the competitors. if possible great but it isn't make or break.
on all the problems. as above, do what makes sense.
in the qualifiers, semis and finals. semi's & finals
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing. yep.
available afterwards. don't mind.
high production quality. the bottom line is an unpaid bloke provided better comp coverage with his phone on a stick than the BMC did with a paid camera person and professional editing... Don't let 'production quality' (film-maker's showing off their editing suite skills) to trump the simple thing that people want - a live stream with a decent commentator.
wouldn't pay for it - probably not, but a quid or two.. maybe..
Keep it coming!
-
From what I'm getting so far, people would like:
A live stream: Yep, if solid (see notes on "Available afterwards"
A commentator: Not just "a commentator", a commentator who climbs and follows the comp scene. Ideally two - despite the very American-ness of it all, the ABS Finals were fun to watch as you had three commentators who knew the climbers, knew the route-setters, knew the competition (and non-comp) scene and had some banter between themselves too. Similarly the IFSC when Jon Cook-Pass-Babtridge and Dan were commentating, it was perfect.
Showing all the competitors: Yep
on all the problems: Yep
in the qualifiers, semis and finals: Semis & Finals only, quali's are too long and too hectic (though interestingly would've seen Pooch's injury, and more TeamGB climbers)
only for bouldering comps, not lead or paraclimbing: Personally yes, but you are on a UKBouldering ;)
available afterwards: Ideally within 24 hours of the comp to avoid spoilers.
high production quality: Hard to define, but I'd like in-focus cameras, well lit, without the focus-tracking squares showing up, ideally with the scores and time displayed on screen.
Bonus features would be intro/post-event interviews and route analysis, and some replays as long as they don't show replays whilst another climber is on route.
wouldn't pay for it: I would... I reckon I'd pay either a £2 per view, or £10 a season for IFSC events, but this is tricky as you'd want to know you were paying for something worthwhile. I wouldn't (for example) have paid for this years' IFSC season, but would have last years.
And IFSC footage is upsetting , but don't know why? Because it's inconsistent. When it's good (or even mediocre), it's great to watch. But so often they get one of the crucial things above wrong, but it's a different thing each time.
I see no use for the moon on a stick. It would play havoc with the tides and ladies cycles.
This thread has drifted more into a general Comp Climbing video discussion, rather than being BBC specific - but regarding the pay-per-view model, it would be an interesting thing to raise. The IFSC streams seem to get thousands of views, I do wonder how many of these would pay.
But equally, I'm slightly surprised that no-one beyond an obscure Chinese clothing manufacture (Kailas http://www.kailasgears.com/ also presumably why there are 2 comps in China) has jumped on to the comp scene as a main sponsor. For shoe manufacturers I guess there would be a perceived risk (e.g. La Sportiva sponsor it, but top climbers all happen to wear 5.10), perhaps this is the same for people like Prana, TNF, E9 etc.
-
Pooch was injured in iso, so you would have missed it
-
And 5.10 don't make solutions or pythons so I'm not to sure about your eyes Durbs! As for pay to watch a bouldering comp, no I don't pay to watch pacquai fight mayweather so twice no. I also don't think that babtree and dan were as good as people made out. Watch qualifiers? Is that some sort of joke I'm not in on?
And like Chaka Khan I feel for pigeon. He's tried and people have moaned about anything and everything, and will continue to do so
-
The speckly plump breasted pigeon is trying his best
-
But equally, I'm slightly surprised that no-one beyond an obscure Chinese clothing manufacture (Kailas http://www.kailasgears.com/ also presumably why there are 2 comps in China) has jumped on to the comp scene as a main sponsor. For shoe manufacturers I guess there would be a perceived risk (e.g. La Sportiva sponsor it, but top climbers all happen to wear 5.10), perhaps this is the same for people like Prana, TNF, E9 etc.
La Sportiva legends had five ten climbers competing, right?!?
-
This year, previously not I think..? Anyway, it was an example, I wasn't suggesting La Sportiva should sponsor, just conjecture as to why no major climbing brands have sponsored BBC/IFSC yet.
Looking at other sports, this is a similar trend (completely unresearched so I'm sure this will get shot down), but Nike, Addidas, Head, Specialised etc. don't sponsor major sporting events, whereas Barclays, Mastercard, Heineken, Vodafone and Npower do... over-caffeinated sugary drink company too.
Maybe there's some economics involved in this - but I do wonder if it's just the risk of a main sponsor coming last/not winning.
-
I don't know what this thread is even about any more, but my points would be this.
* The BBC was pretty much a non-event outside Sheffield. I'm happy to be proven wrong, and notified that my world is not the same as the world.
* There exists no structure or organisation with the right people in place and the right mission and funding to organise a competition as good as what the BBC should be as a national competition.
* The BMC is not set up to be this organisation; it has the wrong mission, it has the wrong people, it does not have and cannot create the right supporting structures, etc.
[I would contend that as a result of all this, the BMC footage of the BBC is much more like marketing/promotional material than sporting event highlights or coverage.]
* None of this is easy, it requires lots of expertise and money. The IFSC doesn't even get it quite right, although it has the right idea - and it has the right mission. (*) It's too much to ask the BMC to do it - not without changing it as an organisation wholesale. That level of change is, I believe, impossible, and disregards the important work that the BMC *does* do - e.g. access etc., as well as the welath of baggage/history that the BMC comes with.
* Thus, if we want a modern, forward looking competitive climbing NGB, then we need to look elsewhere. No matter how much moaning we do at the BMC, we cannot change these facts.
* I don't see how this will ever happen unless some entrepreneur takes it upon him or herself to take this mantle on.
Alex, this isn't meant to be a personal attack BTW. It is not your job, and should not be your job, to produce a live feed with commentators, or even an edited full length highlights show.
(*) I don't know why the IFSC fails. I've not had anything to do with it, so I'll leave comment on that to others.
-
Excellent post.
Spilt thread into IFSC/BBC organisation discussion?
-
No point. No one cares about bbc and no one has a say in ifsc
-
True, but it seems to be a topic to discuss... though "no one cares about BBC" is maybe too strong? Dunno. I wonder if it was hosted as a standalone event, somewhere with a lot of climbers what the turnout would be.
-
Does Graeme not have a say in IFSC stuff?
-
and no one has a say in ifsc
I do ;D
-
Does Graeme not have a say in IFSC stuff?
Should have read the rest of the thread before replying :2thumbsup:
-
True, but it seems to be a topic to discuss... though "no one cares about BBC" is maybe too strong? Dunno. I wonder if it was hosted as a standalone event, somewhere with a lot of climbers what the turnout would be.
You mean like happened 3 years ago when the rest of Cliffhanger was washed out, or like in 2011 when it was the week before Cliffhanger because Cliffhanger was a World Cup :P
-
No point. No one cares about bbc and no one has a say in ifsc
I'm not sure it's true that nobody cares about the bbcs; I think it's more likely people just don't have the option of watching the BBCs live online and then making a choice about whether or not they care about it. I don't bother going to many Liverpool games these days, but I care and I watch at home..
As Lund said outside of Sheffield the BBCs barely flicker on anyone's radar. Live crowds are important for atmosphere, but numbers will plateau at a certain level and will never fill the home end of Hillsborough..(probably used to that).
In theory I 'care' that a national bouldering comp is a success, if only because I like to see something that exists for a common 'good' (participation in sport, climbing) doing well.
The only way to grow interest in an annual niche competition like the BBCs is through live coverage. Nobody wants to watch highlights of a premier league game two weeks after the match, why would anyone but a tiny minority of ukb/c'ers be satisfied with watching edited highlights of a niche bouldering competition many weeks afterwards? The comp format is easy to film live and have viewer involvement - as was proved by Liam via periscope. Answering viewers questions and comments about the event in real time. Scale that up and I think it's an attractive format.
Another potential reason for lack of interest might be the lack of genuine top-level UK competitors in UK bouldering comps. Who really challenged Shuana except a visiting French student? In the mens event, the only world-class boulderer who entered won. Growth would attract more good climbers to want to train and to compete in the BBCs.
-
'The only world class boulderer who entered the men's won'. Well blow me down, the only world class boulderer who entered a national comp won? And this bores you
And people say I'm mad
-
::) Fuck me you're Dense. The point is that only one world-class boulderer entered.
Who's 'down'?
-
Who came 2nd?
-
Barrans
-
Who came 2nd?
Well, Down probably.
Unless Dense blew him first.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
So an unknown chump off the street came 2nd in his first bouldering comp? Good effort that man, seems he just needs a couple more comps under his belt to get established
-
So an unknown chump off the street came 2nd in his first bouldering comp? Good effort that man, seems he just needs a couple more comps under his belt to get established
I heard that it was his 2nd comp - he had sneakily gained some overseas experience at a comp in China a few years ago where he only just made it to the podium http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=991&cat=6 (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=991&cat=6)
-
No point. No one cares about bbc and no one has a say in ifsc
I'm not sure it's true that nobody cares about the bbcs; I think it's more likely people just don't have the option of watching the BBCs live online and then making a choice about whether or not they care about it. I don't bother going to many Liverpool games these days, but I care and I watch at home..
As Lund said outside of Sheffield the BBCs barely flicker on anyone's radar.
Yea I think people are interested - for example there were teams headed across from Ireland and Scotland I think too and with so little coverage, unless you are in Sheffield there is no way to watch or get any real post event detail's bar a brief write up in the climbing media.
Compare to some of the IFSC events which are streamed live and available on the you tube site.
-
That's a pretty good effort in China but to be fair I didn't recognise any of the names on that list
-
That's a pretty good effort in China but to be fair I didn't recognise any of the names on that list
The other competitor list from 2009 in china? If so... have you been smoking tea again?
-
So an unknown chump off the street came 2nd in his first bouldering comp? Good effort that man, seems he just needs a couple more comps under his belt to get established
I heard that it was his 2nd comp - he had sneakily gained some overseas experience at a comp in China a few years ago where he only just made it to the podium http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=991&cat=6 (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!comp=991&cat=6)
Is this the exception which proves my point or are there others? It's off topic to the main discussion anyway, and clearly Barrans isn't shit at what he does but we all knew that already.
-
It doesn't prove your point in any way it does exactly the opposite
-
It could, in theory, be a "if you build it, they will come" type affair.
Currently the BBC's aren't a major feature in the climbing calendar, so you don't get all top-level contenders turning up, nor do you get keen beans looking on saying "I could do that" and entering the following year.
If it were to re-launch in 2016 as a major standalone event, and start publicising it now (rather than 2 weeks before) I think it could be quite a big event.
Bearing in mind there's quite a difference between wall/comp climbers and outdoor climbers, it might even be that London ( :o ) is the best place to host it based on the number of indoor climbers in the South East, rather than traditional climbing cities such as Sheffield. Without being too stereotypical, there's probably more people willing to spend some cash to watch an indoor bouldering comp down South than oop North.
Put on a good show, publicise it before and after, reward the winners well and you've got the makings of a fantastic sporting fixture.
Though obviously the one thing this all requires is £££, and without either a key sponsor (I'd hazard in the region of £20-40k for everything? Graeme?) or a wealthy fan (I've so far failed to win EuroMillions, if I do, I'm all over this) it's not going to happen. If the first event is a success, it will drive sponsorship towards it and hopefully become self-sustaining.
Bigger event > bigger sponsorship > bigger prizes > more entrants > deeper pool of competitors > global domination at IFSC.
Case in point - Sharma's Psicobloc comp. I'm think he (co-)funded the first event himself, or at least was heavily involved.
This year (only it's second) it's got a $20k prize fund, streamed finals and a lot of top-level climbers. And that's only a fun competition. Mind you, the USA is a lot more embracing of sponsorship/advertising as a whole whereas here we're very anti in-your-face adverts.
-
Who really challenged Shuana except a visiting French student?
Last year's winner decided to go trad climbing according to the BMC news item. The event needs more than just live video coverage, it needs PRIZE MONEY too. Then you'd get the best competitors in the country and that in turn would generate more interest.
-
I agree, to be done well it needs money and someone able to make things happen. And I think it has potential to be successful.
You could crowdsource £10k realistically. Just don't ask Dense :tease:
-
I'm going for a wet shave
-
Not a big fan of crowd funding, seems a bit like begging and very short term.
This event, or better still a world cup, should be funded by the UK climbing walls as a group as they are the ones who stand to benefit from any increased popularity off the back of it. Trying to raise the 50-60k to do a proper job from 2 or 3 sponsors is difficult, but get £400 off 150 of the 300+ walls in the UK (guess but there must be 100+ members of ABC) and you can put on a great event.
If they all got one extra person taking up the sport off the back of it who went to there wall once a week they would cover there costs.
The BMC could oversee the implementation of the funding.
Like crowdfunding but for businesses.
Seems like a no brainer to me!
-
Who really challenged Shuana except a visiting French student?
Last year's winner decided to go trad climbing according to the BMC news item. The event needs more than just live video coverage, it needs PRIZE MONEY too. Then you'd get the best competitors in the country and that in turn would generate more interest.
Michaela is still injured, and Pete don't forget that Michaela was in the finals of the World Champs last year so is pretty handy.
And saying that Fanny is "a visiting French student" is a little understated, you could easily have said "visiting French Team member and World Cup medallist who happens to be studying for a short while in Sheffield"
-
Not a big fan of crowd funding, seems a bit like begging and very short term.
This event, or better still a world cup, should be funded by the UK climbing walls as a group as they are the ones who stand to benefit from any increased popularity off the back of it. Trying to raise the 50-60k to do a proper job from 2 or 3 sponsors is difficult, but get £400 off 150 of the 300+ walls in the UK (guess but there must be 100+ members of ABC) and you can put on a great event.
If they all got one extra person taking up the sport off the back of it who went to there wall once a week they would cover there costs.
The BMC could oversee the implementation of the funding.
Like crowdfunding but for businesses.
Seems like a no brainer to me!
Gav - have you been ear wigging on my meetings with Sheffield City Council for the planned return of a BWC to Sheffield?
BMC couldn't even be bothered to ask the walls to support the Team this year, they did it last year and raised a few grand (we were the 1st to donate £500 and it was my idea). This year the Team has no sponsor and no support from the walls.
-
!
[/quote]
BMC couldn't even be bothered to ask the walls to support the Team this year, they did it last year and raised a few grand (we were the 1st to donate £500 and it was my idea). This year the Team has no sponsor and no support from the walls.
[/quote]
Do they not have a full time wall/comp guy anymore, and regional development people.
-
Who really challenged Shuana except a visiting French student?
Last year's winner decided to go trad climbing according to the BMC news item. The event needs more than just live video coverage, it needs PRIZE MONEY too. Then you'd get the best competitors in the country and that in turn would generate more interest.
Michaela is still injured, and Pete don't forget that Michaela was in the finals of the World Champs last year so is pretty handy.
She didn't look that injured at the Tor a few weeks before the event, but I guess comp climbing puts demands on the body that pulling on polished crimps doesn't.
-
!
BMC couldn't even be bothered to ask the walls to support the Team this year, they did it last year and raised a few grand (we were the 1st to donate £500 and it was my idea). This year the Team has no sponsor and no support from the walls.
[/quote]
Do they not have a full time wall/comp guy anymore, and regional development people.
[/quote]
http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Profile.aspx?id=11
-
Michaela is still injured, and Pete don't forget that Michaela was in the finals of the World Champs last year so is pretty handy.
And saying that Fanny is "a visiting French student" is a little understated, you could easily have said "visiting French Team member and World Cup medallist who happens to be studying for a short while in Sheffield"
Yeah I was aware Fanny's a comp wad, 'visiting student' was a bit flippant! She's the only one who was close to matching Shuana though that's the point. A few male and female competitors like that all around the same level would make for a great final. And I doubt she's got much to worry about from the uk contingent.
nb. for Dense - that shouldn't be misconstrued as me moaning that it's boring, merely an observation of objective facts.
-
I'm going for a wet shave
With Down?
-
'The only world class boulderer who entered the men's won'. Well blow me down, the only world class boulderer who entered a national comp won? And this bores you
And people say I'm mad
I think that is unfair to Barrans, he was just a bit hampered by being bit short for the problem he didn't do; he can clearly mix with the international guys in the CWIF and whenever he does bother to climb outdoors he has utterly crushed some hard stuff.
I accept he hasn't done much in the world cup for a few years but he has been the sole representative for the best part of a decade and it must be hard operating in a vacuum of support, talent and motivation.
-
I was stating quite explicitly that barrans is world class when taken with my other statements, I was drawing Pete out for his ridiculous argument.
Strangely I also knew dave came 2nd which was why I asked the question, I also knew every name from the China comp.
Keep up Tim, spending all your time with the dead is starting to hamper your time with the living.
-
I've been mulling this over for a day or two, and have actually watched the video now. On the off chance that Pigeon wants more useful feedback, here we go.
1) Thanks for trying again. The effort really is appreciated.
2) The chaps at BMC TV really haven't understood the type of video people want. To be honest, a short highlight video is fine, but before editing it you need to watch any highlights program of any sporting event ever. They go like this...
There's a bit of context setting.
There's the bit in the middle where they show what happened, with commentary. In a comp context this would include how people did on the various problems, in order. Which were the critical/deciding problems. Who came in what positions. This is basically most of the program.
There's the bit at the end, often over the end credits, where a condensed grab bag of "best shots" is shown in a montage to some music.
3) BMC TV have basically made two versions of the end credit sequence with differing lengths, whereas most people want and expect all three bits to make a conventional highlights program.
I hope that helps?
-
I was stating quite explicitly that barrans is world class when taken with my other statements, I was drawing Pete out for his ridiculous argument.
Strangely I also knew dave came 2nd which was why I asked the question, I also knew every name from the China comp.
Keep up Tim, spending all your time with the dead is starting to hamper your time with the living.
Fuck me, well in that case I'd stick to unpunctuated oddly capitalised straight bullshit puncturing. The sarcasm didn't come across at all well.
-
I was stating quite explicitly that barrans is world class when taken with my other statements, I was drawing Pete out for his ridiculous argument.
Strangely I also knew dave came 2nd which was why I asked the question, I also knew every name from the China comp.
Keep up Tim, spending all your time with the dead is starting to hamper your time with the living.
Fuck me, well in that case I'd stick to unpunctuated oddly capitalised straight bullshit puncturing. The sarcasm didn't come across at all well.
I didn't appreciate it either but with the retrospectoscope i can sort of see what you were poking at, kind of!
On a separate note, what is the prize money for the BBC?
-
I was stating quite explicitly that barrans is world class when taken with my other statements, I was drawing Pete out for his ridiculous argument.
Strangely I also knew dave came 2nd which was why I asked the question, I also knew every name from the China comp.
Keep up Tim, spending all your time with the dead is starting to hamper your time with the living.
The only thing I can take away from your posts Dense is that our definitions of a world class comp boulderer are different. At the risk of offending Barrans even more than I already have by looking at the facts, a single 3rd place 6 years ago doesn't (imo) make somone 'world class' standard today. It wouldn't for example meet the criteria for entry in ukb's next list: 'men who have recently podium'd at a world cup' :P
-
What had Tyler ever done in a bouldering comp to make him stand out as world class?
Did everyone reading that understand what I just asked? Do I need to semi defend my question with the caveat of I know, and so does everyone with eyes, that Tyler is absolutely quite easily one of the worlds best boulderers yet I don't recall him being a world class (as Pete would imply) comp climber.
-
What had Tyler ever done in a bouldering comp to make him stand out as world class?
Well going off your interpretation, beating another 'world class comp boulderer' would be an indicator.
This is getting a bit tedious and off-topic - you're right he's got no world-class comp pedigree, but the one comp he enters he wins placing ahead of the UK's best comp boulderer without much trouble. I think everyone would agree that he's a boulderer of world-class standard. That isn't a criticism of anyone, it's what happened. It's a sample size of one and maybe he'll never enter another comp.
-
What had Tyler ever done in a bouldering comp to make him stand out as world class?
Did everyone reading that understand what I just asked? Do I need to semi defend my question with the caveat of I know, and so does everyone with eyes, that Tyler is absolutely quite easily one of the worlds best boulderers yet I don't recall him being a world class (as Pete would imply) comp climber.
Dense, why are you asking a rhetorical question? It's getting a bit annoying.
What point are you actually trying to make? Can you not just make it now please?
-
I'm making the point of Pete belittling every other climber in the field is a bit harsh, which is fine for the most part but not when the runner up is also world class.
If we're starting to be funny what does "can you not just make it now please" mean? Is that English?
-
I'm not belittling every other climber in the field - nice exaggeration for effect there! I'm not attempting to belittle anybody (which you think is fine anyway?).
FFS it's not 'belittling' to think that 'world-class' actually means something, and isn't a term that can be applied just so as not to offend someone.
-
the one comp he enters he wins placing ahead of the UK's best comp boulderer without much trouble. I think everyone would agree that he's a boulderer of world-class standard. That isn't a criticism of anyone, it's what happened. It's a sample size of one and maybe he'll never enter another comp.
I don't think he did beat him comfortably, the difference was height and iffy setting. If he was that much better he would have won the semis and the qualifiers (which he didn't by quite a long way).
-
I'm making the point of Pete belittling every other climber in the field is a bit harsh, which is fine for the most part but not when the runner up is also world class.
If we're starting to be funny what does "can you not just make it now please" mean? Is that English?
You belittling my forum engrish is both pointless and ironic, and makes you seem like a cock. Why are we descending to that level all of a sudden?
Pete said this:
Another potential reason for lack of interest might be the lack of genuine top-level UK competitors in UK bouldering comps. Who really challenged Shuana except a visiting French student? In the mens event, the only world-class boulderer who entered won. Growth would attract more good climbers to want to train and to compete in the BBCs.
The point was about the lack of strength in depth of the UK competition squad. Arguing about whether Barrans is world-class or not is interesting, but whatever the conclusion, I don't think Pete is miles out, factually, even if he's not precise, in that we don't have that many athletes who threaten finals at WCs, or by any other measure.
It would have been much more interesting to challenge the paragraph itself - I'm sure the French have a good national competition, yet there aren't hordes of frenchies in the WC finals? What about the US? What's theirs like? The canadians?
As it is we've wasted thousands of bytes sidling around whether Barrans is world-class or not.
-
I don't think he did beat him comfortably, the difference was height and iffy setting. If he was that much better he would have won the semis and the qualifiers (which he didn't by quite a long way).
Is this the general consensus? If so (un)fair enough.
Pete said this:
Another potential reason for lack of interest might be the lack of genuine top-level UK competitors in UK bouldering comps. Who really challenged Shuana except a visiting French student? In the mens event, the only world-class boulderer who entered won. Growth would attract more good climbers to want to train and to compete in the BBCs.
The point was about the lack of strength in depth of the UK competition squad. Arguing about whether Barrans is world-class or not is interesting, but whatever the conclusion, I don't think Pete is miles out, factually, even if he's not precise, in that we don't have that many athletes who threaten finals at WCs, or by any other measure.
It would have been much more interesting to challenge the paragraph itself - I'm sure the French have a good national competition, yet there aren't hordes of frenchies in the WC finals? What about the US? What's theirs like? The canadians?
Can someone drag up the stats for podium places in world cups 2009 to-date (so we get at least one male) so we can see how the UK's best comp climbers compare to other nations?
-
I was stating quite explicitly that barrans is world class when taken with my other statements, I was drawing Pete out for his ridiculous argument.
Strangely I also knew dave came 2nd which was why I asked the question, I also knew every name from the China comp.
Keep up Tim, spending all your time with the dead is starting to hamper your time with the living.
Fuck me, well in that case I'd stick to unpunctuated oddly capitalised straight bullshit puncturing. The sarcasm didn't come across at all well.
You said I was attacking your forum English? I'm sure I was replying to this, your post a few up, strangely attacking my forum English. Bizarre, I'm obviously such a tosser who attacks someone for no reason
-
Ty has been in 1 final, Vail 2008. And finished last in the final.
Dave has been in a few finals, maybe 3 or 4 including a World Championship where he got on the podium.
Dave has done way more comps than Ty. so who has the best record, well Dave obviously as he has a medal.
-
I was stating quite explicitly that barrans is world class when taken with my other statements, I was drawing Pete out for his ridiculous argument.
Strangely I also knew dave came 2nd which was why I asked the question, I also knew every name from the China comp.
Keep up Tim, spending all your time with the dead is starting to hamper your time with the living.
Fuck me, well in that case I'd stick to unpunctuated oddly capitalised straight bullshit puncturing. The sarcasm didn't come across at all well.
You said I was attacking your forum English? I'm sure I was replying to this, your post a few up, strangely attacking my forum English. Bizarre, I'm obviously such a tosser who attacks someone for no reason
Strangely? Your posts have always struck me as kind of unique, e.g.
You've never had a conversation with me about this! I look I listen I understand. If different people stand there saying you should hear Daves views on the 30, every things piss and citing that as an example, then i come to think of you thinking its piss. The board being at the wrong angle only helps the tall, if it was the correct angle the move would be smaller. Ergo id be able to piss it ;)
Now whats this got to do with WOB i ask myself
If you don't want people to form that opinion, then don't consistently fail to punctuate or capitalise correctly, whilst at the same time generally talking sense.
In any case, the second half of my comment, "straight bullshit puncturing", was a compliment, indeed the whole sentence was supposed to be fairly complimentary. Soz if you took it another way. Honestly, it wasn't intended as an insult.
All so great.
In the second half of this thread you've been a bit of a dick, not sure why. Maybe you and Pete used to have a thing for each other or something.
-
Can someone drag up the stats for podium places in world cups 2009 to-date (so we get at least one male) so we can see how the UK's best comp climbers compare to other nations?
2015 (current) to 2010 - Men only, total entrants by country:
USA 51
FRA 49
JPN 45
RUS 32
GER 28
CAN 26
GBR 26
AUT 25
ITA 22
SUI 21
SLO 19
CHN 18
NED 18
AUS 12
ESP 11
KOR 11
POL 11
CZE 10
UKR 7
HKG 6
MEX 6
FIN 5
LAT 4
MAS 4
SWE 4
IRI 3
LTU 3
THA 3
BLR 2
KAZ 2
BEL 1
COL 1
DEN 1
GEO 1
HUN 1
IRL 1
ISR 1
NOR 1
RSA 1
SIN 1
SVK 1
VEN 1
| Row Labels | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2015 | Grand Total |
| AUS | 1 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 12 |
| AUT | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 25 |
| BEL | | | 1 | | | | 1 |
| BLR | 2 | | | | | | 2 |
| CAN | 1 | 8 | 1 | 6 | 7 | 3 | 26 |
| CHN | | | 5 | 6 | 5 | 2 | 18 |
| COL | 1 | | | | | | 1 |
| CZE | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 10 |
| DEN | | | | | | 1 | 1 |
| ESP | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 3 | | 11 |
| FIN | | 2 | 1 | 2 | | | 5 |
| FRA | 14 | 11 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 49 |
| GBR | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 1 | 26 |
| GEO | | | | | 1 | | 1 |
| GER | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 2 | 28 |
| HKG | | | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 6 |
| HUN | 1 | | | | | | 1 |
| IRI | | | | | 2 | 1 | 3 |
| IRL | | 1 | | | | | 1 |
| ISR | | | | | 1 | | 1 |
| ITA | 6 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 22 |
| JPN | 5 | 5 | 7 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 45 |
| KAZ | | | | 1 | 1 | | 2 |
| KOR | | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 11 |
| LAT | 1 | | | 1 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
| LTU | 1 | | | 1 | 1 | | 3 |
| MAS | | | 1 | 3 | | | 4 |
| MEX | | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 6 |
| NED | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 18 |
| NOR | 1 | | | | | | 1 |
| POL | 3 | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 11 |
| RSA | | 1 | | | | | 1 |
| RUS | 9 | 5 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 2 | 32 |
| SIN | | | | | | 1 | 1 |
| SLO | 2 | 5 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 19 |
| SUI | 4 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 21 |
| SVK | | 1 | | | | | 1 |
| SWE | 1 | | 1 | | 2 | | 4 |
| THA | | | | 2 | 1 | | 3 |
| UKR | 2 | 1 | 1 | 3 | | | 7 |
| USA | 8 | 11 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 4 | 51 |
| VEN | | 1 | | | | | 1 |
-
Source?
The 2nd table shows what exactly? Certainly not Boulder World Cup medals or even LWC or SWC as I know that Hong Kong certainly haven't won any medals
-
Actually that 1st table is inaccurate - there was a car load from Ireland at Laval last year, Daragh; Juan and Dom were definitely there.
-
Think it's entrants, not podiums.
-
Source: ifsc website
Yeah, entrants not podiums, I'll sort that later!
-
Lund, I hate posts like Petes that basically said, Tyler entered Tyler won since he's the only good one there. There are other good people out there and other good ones at the event. I don't hate Pete at all. I think he's very thin and very dedicated. I do blame him for Doylo not having done an 8c f.a. Since he's had to find work elsewhere cos he's being slack ;)
Ps I left a capital S after the full stop at the end of f.a. That was intentional, so was that :P
-
Right...
We have no simple, organised, Bouldering league in the UK (adults) that gives a clear picture of who stands where in even a national setting, let alone international.
We have patchy, un-enthusiastic support from NGB.
There seems little to promote the individual dedication required to pursue national/international competition careers, despite the girl's fantastic performance in the past couple of seasons.
I believe (shit, I hope this is plain enough to satisfy Dense), Climbing (particularly indoor and comp) is a sufficiently distinct sport to (ideally) require it's own NGB and that should be the ABC.
Athletics and Gymnastics do not share an NGB, yet they are (arguably) more akin than Hill walking and Bouldering.
Christ, Judo and Karate don't share an NGB.
THe BMC has enough to do, things of vastly greater import than Comp climbing, that rightly deserve (and get) more time and funding.
The various "established" sports NGB's grew out of associations of clubs around the country.
Competition climbing struggles with this model because we don't have that kind of Climbing clubs.
We have Walls, that occupy a strange limbo between club and commercial entity and (in their own interests), should organise in the promotion of their sport.
Those Walls already have a national association, with the right people/enthusiasm, that group would be very well placed to take on the NGB role.
Addendum.
They won't / things won't change unless the ordinary Boulders/Climbers push for that change.
Dense,
If you have a better idea, or like things just the way they are, just say so....
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Lund, I hate posts like Petes that basically said, Tyler entered Tyler won since he's the only good one there. There are other good people out there and other good ones at the event. I don't hate Pete at all. I think he's very thin and very dedicated. I do blame him for Doylo not having done an 8c f.a. Since he's had to find work elsewhere cos he's being slack ;)
Doylo's a very naughty boy and he's been sent away to guernsey to earn shit loads of tax free fuck-alls for doing fuck all. He's going to come back fat from duty free boozing and weak from granite slabs. The easier A55 crags should suit perfectly.
-
The ABC? I don't think so.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
-
Right...
We have patchy, un-enthusiastic support from NGB.
This is at least partly because the BMC is not a National Governing Body. It is a Representative body. I seem to remember this actually tripped up the olympic bid. The difference is significant because the vast majority of climbers have never wanted or needed governing, but do want representing for issues such as access, liability and equipment. It is not just semantics.
Someone informed than me may be able to chip in on the Sports council funding the BMC receives and the conditions attached.
As Matt says, a separate governing body for climbing comps is one solution. However there would be funding issues to be resolved. A subsidiary body of the BMC would seem to be the best solution to me.
-
Right...
We have patchy, un-enthusiastic support from NGB.
This is at least partly because the BMC is not a National Governing Body. It is a Representative body. I seem to remember this actually tripped up the olympic bid. The difference is significant because the vast majority of climbers have never wanted or needed governing, but do want representing for issues such as access, liability and equipment. It is not just semantics.
IIRC: it didn't make any difference to the Olympic bid; we didn't actually do a great deal here apart from let the IFSC get on with it. It did come up in the interminable discussion, you're right about that though.
You're right too that the BMC has evolved from it's origins as a centralised body representing climbers. It's origins lie in being a spin off from the alpine club, but with the other 20-odd clubs contributing to it. It had at the outset "representing all climbers", but in reality the "all" here was mainly meant to be "not just those in the alpine clubs but other gentlemen in other clubs too". In time it's morphed into an uneasy mix of club and individuals, attempting to represent everyone... but still being a members only organisation... funded through a mix of insurance profits, membership levies, and grants from the government.
Interestingly, for me there's a definite subservience thing here: the BMC was conceived as providing a service to it's well-to-do members, rather than governing them.
However, where does competition fit into this? This complicates it in a couple of ways:
* Competition in every degree needs rules. Normal climbing doesn't have rules, it has ethics. If there are rules of entry and the actual competition... then you need someone to set them. That is, by definition, the governing body. The BMC sets these in the UK, as much as anyone.
* Externally, there are a number of organisations that need a central contact and someone to talk to about climbing. The IFSC needs to know who's on the team. Who sits on its board or committees or whatever. The government sees competition and sport and realises that everyone else has an NGB... where is climbings? They want to give them money. Their gaze lands upon the BMC.
In my book, much of the navel gazing and twisting and turning the BMC does is over this clash (and other similar, such as "we don't encourage people to go climbing because it's dangerous" vs "our funding requires increased participation") causes it as an organisation to tie itself in knots, especially at the interface between the volunteer corps and the reality of implementation by the staff.
Climbing needs an NGB. The BMC is that body, de facto, and only partially acknowledged.
Someone informed than me may be able to chip in on the Sports council funding the BMC receives and the conditions attached.
IIRC:
The funding is for specific "projects". The scope of a project is quite wide. Essentially, what you do is every few years think of some ideas for things that you can show will increase participation - Sport Englands requirement - and submit a bid.
SE decide which to award you and give you money. You have to use that money on that thing (although in some cases you can ask nicely to repurpose it for something else instead, i.e. re-bid to re-purpose - e.g. "we don't need the awarded 10K for the website, we only need 3, can we blow the other 7 on this other scheme that's going really well and we can enlarge it?").
Things bid for and awarded in the past include the L&SE development officer (so salary and costs associated with that post), money for clubs to build their own websites, money for equipment for clubs, instructors/coaching, etc.
The bid period is three years, but SE review participation figures regularly through a very distrusted (by many of the NGBs) survey called "the active people survey". If your sport doesn't badly, then they take money away - and cancel some of the programmes.
They can also force you to take other measures. "We won't give you any more money unless you can show us that you are doing X to make your organisation better." For example, the independent directors on the BMC's board are from this feedback mechanism. (Again, IIRC.)
As Matt says, a separate governing body for climbing comps is one solution. However there would be funding issues to be resolved. A subsidiary body of the BMC would seem to be the best solution to me.
Something independent of the BMC, rather than subsidiary, would be better: then it doesn't have the (many) constraints (internal and external) that the BMC labours under.
-
Finished me spreadsheet...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4TP9Sc1Esn8NElyQUY3Ql9WRlU/view?usp=sharing
Not sure if pivot tables work in Google docs - but you can (in the original) expand country to view individuals, and apply a filter to show (for example) only top 3 finishers.
I couldn't find a list of all podium places.
-
Possibly of interest, total number of entrants in 2015 for Men (53) and Women (52). Previous years for both have been around 80-90. The double-china trip taking down the numbers?
-
OK, comp fans.
One final post from me now I've checked a couple of points .
(Stu – yep , the second vid isn’t ideal, but without a time machine it’s the best the guys could do. )
I’ve now been able to check viewing figures for previous live streams with Rob Adie, our Comps guy.
When we live streamed it in 2014 (which cost £2,500) the stats at the time were:
Men’s quals: 879 views total / 111 live
Women’s quals 847 views total / 103 live
Semi finals 890 views total / 165 live
Finals 3135 views total / 273 live
The finals video has now had 12K views in total.
So, live numbers are very low. However, it looks like there is a decent demand for watching this live format at a later date. For 2016, we just need to work out the best way of getting value for money and the best setup for the viewers. All feedback so far has helped too, and will help our approach for next year.
Also, an explanation of BBC finances from Rob:
“For the BBCs, the major costs for the BMC are routesetting, prize money, volunteer expenses, vests etc, a total of 8K, which comes directly from a Sport England budget allocated to this event.
The main issue with doing the event elsewhere is funding the infrastructure costs which are significant. At Cliffhanger, Sheffield Council provide the infrastructure costs, but the BMC provide this major event which brings a lot of the people to Cliffhanger in the first place. Sheffield CC understand that and that’s why they are willing to invest in it.”
Hope this helps. I'm out of there. Any more feedback to alex@thebmc.co.uk
cheers
-
How widely/well was the live stream promoted in 2014? without this info the numbers are pretty meaningless.
-
When we live streamed it in 2014 (which cost £2,500) the stats at the time were:
Men’s quals: 879 views total / 111 live
Women’s quals 847 views total / 103 live
Semi finals 890 views total / 165 live
Finals 3135 views total / 273 live
The finals video has now had 12K views in total.
Those numbers are probably a little on the low side because 2014 was the year the BBC clashed with a World Cup round. Shauna wasn't there and I'm sure lots of comp fans chose to watch an international event rather than a local one.
From the same year, the CWIF video has racked up 16,668 views. You would think that BBC should big bigger news than the CWIF? Clearly, the Works did better with both promotion and scheduling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1aWElHawWY
-
You would think that BBC should big bigger news than the CWIF?
Not sure about that. CWIF generally has significantly more wads, which is key really. I wouldn't watch the BBCs live I doubt, but would watch CWIF. Plus it's scheduled at a time of year when it's darker in the evenings so you're likely to be home from climbing by the time the finals are on.
-
You would think that BBC should big bigger news than the CWIF?
Not sure about that. CWIF generally has significantly more wads, which is key really. I wouldn't watch the BBCs live I doubt, but would watch CWIF. Plus it's scheduled at a time of year when it's darker in the evenings so you're likely to be home from climbing by the time the finals are on.
I'd rather watch an international than the nationals in any sport. The CWIF started small (even i qualified for the semi's the first year, due to lack of wads), but is now appears to be a massive success
I'd rather do the nationals than the CWIF, but that's only because the CWIF is self scoring through the qualifiers.
in an ideal world (for me) the CWIF qualifier would be policed to avoid full cheatage to get into the semi's and that way the full results would mean something, then that'd be the one I'd want to do. It'd be a logistical nightmare to police though.
we've had visiting wads take part in the bbc's before, like CWP, Wouter Jongeneelan (sp), Nige :P etc., but i don't think these added anything to the watchability factor, since they're still just the nationals, so won't draw all or even a reasonable proportion of the world's best.
-
I agree with rodma, a big comp where people govern themselves through the early stages is barking.
Also as comps get bigger something will have to be done to keep the number of competitors acceptable. I don't envy anyone that job.
-
I agree with rodma, a big comp where people govern themselves through the early stages is barking.
Also as comps get bigger something will have to be done to keep the number of competitors acceptable. I don't envy anyone that job.
Hence my reference to a league...
Regionals leading to nationals.
And, thus, the problem of the lack of "clubs".
I see no reason to not follow that standard system, so prevalent in other sports; except that most of the facilities required are private, profit making (ha,ha,ha, I wish), entities.
Though, with the registration process used at most walls, they are halfway to club status anyway...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
It could be run like tennis champs... Some get in on their ranking, some may have to qualify - or there may be wildcards...
-
Hence my reference to a league...
Regionals leading to nationals.
I meant for an International, the Nationals are fine as they are, it all gets sorted out on the day, since the problems are judged.
i can't imagine anything worse than regional bullshit heats set at local walls, with local holds on local angles/features being used as holds. fine for a fun series, but shit on a stick otherwise, unless you mean, fully stripped walls, proper setters being brought in bringing their own holds with etc. etc., in which case that would be something approaching fairness.
-
Hence my reference to a league...
Regionals leading to nationals.
I meant for an International, the Nationals are fine as they are, it all gets sorted out on the day, since the problems are judged.
i can't imagine anything worse than regional bullshit heats set at local walls, with local holds on local angles/features being used as holds. fine for a fun series, but shit on a stick otherwise, unless you mean, fully stripped walls, proper setters being brought in bringing their own holds with etc. etc., in which case that would be something approaching fairness.
Actually, that's pretty much exactly what I mean.
These are nascent ideas (for me at least) and it's a tall order, even a paradigm shift of the UK competition culture.
Something which was inconceivable until the last few years (it's only been, what, 6 years? Since the first "real" wall west of Bristol opened.)
And such a league would be dependent on availability of training facilities.
Most of the new, large, bouldering walls have a comp wall, that would serve well at the "regional" level and could be utilised without affecting the business of the wall.
It is the organising authority which is lacking/missing.
A set of comp holds would not be too hard or expensive to obtain, I'm sure some manufacturers could be persuaded to help out there.
Transporting and setting would be the crux, along with the required personnel.
There must be others who have similar ideas to me and I think they are more likely found in the industry than the BMC.
And, without active participation of the walls (the closest thing we have to clubs), it is impossible.
Are there enough people interested in such a league?
Is there enough support for the sport of Indoor Bouldering, as distinct from Bouldering, the esoteric, spiritual communion between human and rock?
I think there is amongst the youngsters and the BMC GB youth team selection process seems to be a good starting point.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Without wanting to sound ignorant (which I am), what is a competition wall? Does it have to be of a regulation height, texture?
I've seen it mentioned many times, but never thought to ask.
-
There are some details on the BMC website with regards to National Performance Centres
https://thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=972 (https://thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=972)
b. Bouldering wall
Essential:
• 30-40m wide competition style bouldering wall (or walls) with matting and a large viewing area for spectators.
• Separate isolation area with a warm-up wall.
Desirable:
• Ability to hold other levels of climbing competitions.
There is some stuff about access from transport links etc, but nothing about angles heights etc. But I think the standard is something like 4m/4.5m, with a variety of angles. inc slight slab.
If anyone has more details I would be interested to read about them...
-
Hence my reference to a league...
Regionals leading to nationals.
I meant for an International, the Nationals are fine as they are, it all gets sorted out on the day, since the problems are judged.
i can't imagine anything worse than regional bullshit heats set at local walls, with local holds on local angles/features being used as holds. fine for a fun series, but shit on a stick otherwise, unless you mean, fully stripped walls, proper setters being brought in bringing their own holds with etc. etc., in which case that would be something approaching fairness.
Actually, that's pretty much exactly what I mean.
These are nascent ideas (for me at least) and it's a tall order, even a paradigm shift of the UK competition culture.
Something which was inconceivable until the last few years (it's only been, what, 6 years? Since the first "real" wall west of Bristol opened.)
And such a league would be dependent on availability of training facilities.
Most of the new, large, bouldering walls have a comp wall, that would serve well at the "regional" level and could be utilised without affecting the business of the wall.
It is the organising authority which is lacking/missing.
A set of comp holds would not be too hard or expensive to obtain, I'm sure some manufacturers could be persuaded to help out there.
Transporting and setting would be the crux, along with the required personnel.
There must be others who have similar ideas to me and I think they are more likely found in the industry than the BMC.
And, without active participation of the walls (the closest thing we have to clubs), it is impossible.
Are there enough people interested in such a league?
Is there enough support for the sport of Indoor Bouldering, as distinct from Bouldering, the esoteric, spiritual communion between human and rock?
I think there is amongst the youngsters and the BMC GB youth team selection process seems to be a good starting point.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Nice if it could happen, but I reckon my wee boy will be retired by the time it gets organised.
There is only one wall in Scotland that fits the bill; it's a bit of a turd wurld cuntry in terms of facilities
-
If you build it, they will come...
[emoji12]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Hehe. Just chuck a cool million my way and It's achievable
-
I don't see the league idea working, it's been tried many times before. I for one have no interest in a league programme or its transference to comps at the end. To be honest I get, and others do, a bit pissed off that the wall I go to is used for comps so much. Whilst this may seem like only a few days a year to the staff as a paying customer it certainly seems like a lot more. After all I selfishly climb for me. I like the world cups, cwif, and bbc's anything else just doesn't hold my attention.
-
BBCs this weekend. And it's being streamed.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/livestream-british-bouldering-championships-2016
-
Well advertised again...
-
Well advertised again...
What, like this:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,27235.msg528035.html#msg528035
posted yesterday?
-
i've had emails from moon on this too, saw it advertised when i was in sheffield for work, so i'd say it was pretty well advertised this year. if the weather stays ok, i'll be taking thre kids up to watch qualifiers on saturday.
-
Apparently there is only 37 male entries this year!?!? Can't remember who told me this but seems pretty low?
-
Also the BMC posted about it (https://www.thebmc.co.uk/british-bouldering-championships-2016) a month ago.
I guess it depends what you read online Baldy.
-
Also the BMC posted about it (https://www.thebmc.co.uk/british-bouldering-championships-2016) a month ago.
I guess it depends what you read online Baldy.
As I'm driving and a tight bastard, are there any parking restrictions in Broomhall on a Saturday or will I have to go further away such as Eccleshall Rd area for free parking, it's been years since I've lived in Sheffield, cheers Rich.
-
Ha tommytwotone asked the same last night on Twatter.
Parking around Sheffield City Centre is £1 all day on Sundays (https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads/travel/driving/parking/city-centre.html) (at least thats how I read the councils website).
Not one for 'tight bastards' but if you've kids and they like buses/trains/trams you can park and catch an exciting tram ride into the city centre. There are official park and ride (http://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/parkandridesheffield/) or you could park in Kelham Island (near the Foundry) as theres a tram stop not far.
-
Same here richd - following the shout from Slackline think I'll car / tram it as I'm sure the nipper will love the tram ride.
Coming in from Leeds so probably best / easiest for me will be to park at the Centretainment / Arena stop and then get the tram to town from there.
Would be good to see any UKB-ers there!
-
Coming in from Leeds so probably best / easiest for me will be to park at the Centretainment / Arena stop and then get the tram to town from there.
Would be good to see any UKB-ers there!
Tom, if the centretainment tram parking is shared with the cinema, bowling etc. beware, it's always a nightmare to find a space. Unless you'll be arriving there quite early you'll lapping the car park trying not to swear. I'd check it's a separate area before settling on this idea.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
-
Well I work in a wall about an hour down the road, and when I'm not doing anything I read UKB, UKC (news stuff only), and generally mooch on climbing info sites.
It's quite possible that I have just missed all the outlets until now, but equally - I'm amazed that I haven't been hit over the head with it for the past few weeks. :shrug:
-
what's the weather like in the outdoor city this morning, it's lagging it down in Nottingham and I'm trying to work out if it's worth the trip up the m1.
-
just started raining
-
cheers going to do it anyway need to do something to get rid of the hangover
-
cheers going to do it anyway need to do something to get rid of the hangover
The Devonshire Cat is a stones throw away. :beer2:
-
Anyone been down today? What's the setup like? Anywhere to sit undercover? Are the qualification results available?
Cheers
-
Anyone been down today? What's the setup like? Anywhere to sit undercover? Are the qualification results available?
Cheers
Not much undercover, a gazebo type thing from over-caffeinated sugary drink company, more standing than sitting in there, a few deck chairs from BMC
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13612258_10154285908226354_3801355989817023590_n.jpg?oh=c1792de77fece18affccde5adcb4c834&oe=57FA704A)
-
Was down for a bit, no cover apart from a over-caffeinated sugary drink company gazebo which would squeeze about 30 people in but is off to the side. Set up well for viewing as there's a raised bank of grass set back from the wall so you can get a good view even if you're a long way back. No clue on results other than Shauna was cruising when we were there. Worth checking out the Moon tent, t shirts and shorts for a fiver :2thumbsup:
-
results up on BMC https://www.thebmc.co.uk/media/files/Comps/bbc16_qulifiers_result.pdf managed to park in Broomhall 5 mins walk away, permit holders mon to friday free on the weekend..