UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: tomtom on January 12, 2014, 06:59:18 pm
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Hey up,
I've decided that one of my unofficial aims of 2014 is to do a one armer (or more than two if possible!). To that ends, I've rigged up a rope, pulley and bag full of weights under/next to my beastmaker. It all works fine - though I had to spirit away a couple of MrsTT's 2l bottles of coke to make up the weights ;)
I know very little about training, reps, how to increase strength etc.. apart from bits I've skimmed here...
I weigh 77kg and can do two creaky one arm reps with 20kg of assistance. So I've found my limit (or close to it). (ie I can pull 57kg with each arm)..
I have some questions for the UKB training collective - which really all boil down to what should I do next?
Of course this involves gradually reducing the weight of the assist until I can do them without weight.. but how quickly - by how much? How many reps should I be able to do on each arm before knocking off some weight etc..? How often is it sensible to do this (I'm not trying any more than every other day..)? How quickly should I expect the assist weight to decrease? I suspect much of this is down to how my body responds to training etc.. (so dont expect any fixed rule).
I'm not looking for some super route endurance one armer endurance skill here - just boulder problem style one shot strength..
Thanks in advance,
Tom
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Hi Tom,
I set a similar goal a year ago of doing a one arm, one pad edge pull up- still a little bit off this but you could follow a basic strength program:
This would be to work out your 1 rep max and then do alternate weeks of between 3 and 6 repetitions with varying assistance but would be based on doing a 1 second up and down pull up- similar to the idea of a building then consolidating work out that chris wp suggests on his fingerboard routine.
I'd prob also consider doing some one arm work to 'tune in' briefly before a boulder session like Malcolm Smith suggests.
Some guidelines below from a good article on strength training.
Calculating 1RM
According to the US National Strength and Conditioning Association, the theoretical distribution of repetitions against a percentage of 1RM, your maximum lift, is distributed as follows, using the bench press example:
•100 % of 1RM -- 160 pounds -- 1 repetition
•85% of 1RM -- 136 pounds -- 6 repetitions
•67% of 1RM -- 107 pounds -- 12 repetitions
•65% of 1RM -- 104 pounds -- 15 repetitions
•60% of 1RM -- 96 pounds -- warmup reps
(Based on: Baechle and Earle, NSCA’s Essentials of Personal Training, 371, 2004.)
This means that you should be able to do 1 lift at your personal best, 6 lifts at 85 percent of your personal best and 15 lifts at 65 percent of your 1RM personal best – and with proportional percentages for any lift in between, and probably below.
Don’t consider this an absolute reference; it’s only a guide and a basis from which to choose appropriate weights for working out. You can see how you can estimate your personal best or 1RM from your 12 RM -- multiply 107 by 100 divided by 67.
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Last Summer I got in good one arming shape with gym work. Shoulders and biceps are very important.
More specifically I used contrast training, paused sets, and front lever pulls, once or twice a week.
I think there was a couple of topics here.
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simple way to do one armers
- do more pull ups
- do negative one armers as slow as possible
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simple way to do one armers
- do more pull ups
- do negative one armers as slow as possible
:thumbsup:
My method was even simpler:
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It's been a long while since but my method was perhaps even more interesting.
Fail to redpoint Bored Of The Lies (7b+), pinging off repeatedly at the top. Mooch over to the Tor and one arm the start jug of Weedkiller Traverse.
Moral? :-\
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The start jug of weedkiller is just above waist height isn't it? You must have scrunched up into a ball!
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People that can do one armers: How many normal pull-ups can you do?
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Careful with the negatives - bit of an injury risk I think, though they are effective.
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i find campussing juggy down the wall really helps too, trying not to pull up and snatch between holds but move as much as possible on one arm, even if that means you have to flick your legs and/or body behind it to get the momentum
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Thanks for the comments... some of my thoughts..
Do more pull ups: Won't this just make me better at doing two armed pull ups? ie I end up working the endurance but not the power?
Negative one armers: done this before - painful.. keen to avoid!
I've also had slightly wonky elbows in the past, so keen to avoid reps - but work on the power (low reps, high weight)... Interestingly not a murmur from my elbows so far compared to normal pull up training (that I've done) - maybe the different geomettry/bod alignment with assisted one armers is better for them???
I tried weighted normal (two armed) pull ups - but wearing either a harness or backback (or both) with weights in made my back feel like it had been put on a rack!
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I've also had slightly wonky elbows in the past, so keen to avoid reps - but work on the power (low reps, high weight)... Interestingly not a murmur from my elbows so far compared to normal pull up training (that I've done) - maybe the different geomettry/bod alignment with assisted one armers is better for them???
I tried weighted normal (two armed) pull ups - but wearing either a harness or backback (or both) with weights in made my back feel like it had been put on a rack!
Side-on one armers are much easier but pull ups are front-on if done off a bar or edge but it is good to be strong at both for climbing.
Weighted pull ups are great - don't use a backback but ideally hang equal weights off the top loop of the harness and off the back - sometimes I add lighter weights in my pockets.
Other variations on pull ups to work with are:
- French pullups (count to 3-5 at hanging,90degs, full lock, 90deg etc)
- Travelling pullups - moving side to side touching chin on each hand
- Power pulls - pull up as fast as possible and lower slowly
- Offset pull ups - can be rigged up a variety of ways
Throw in some core exercises like attempted front levers, knee raises etc while you are at it.
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This site is good for progression steps: http://www.beastskills.com/one-arm-chin-up-pull-up/ (http://www.beastskills.com/one-arm-chin-up-pull-up/)
Recently I've got a lot closer to 1 armers and this seems to correlate with an increased amount of weight lifting. Does a 1 armer (done side on) use the bicep a lot more and engage the lats less?
I'm currently 4kg + the resistance of the rope looped over the pull-up bar away from doing a 1 armer. Anyone know how I can squeeze out that last little bit of strength?
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not being a specialist in any way (my best result is some sort of "almost one armer") i've noticed a rough correlation with bodyweight (i'm closer to a proper one arm when 1-2 kg lighter than usual).
so if you want to cheat...
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Thanks for the comments... some of my thoughts..
Do more pull ups: Won't this just make me better at doing two armed pull ups? i.e. I end up working the endurance but not the power?
No. Read too many training articles written by people who understood half of a text book in physiology, and you would think that it is all very complicated and that strength can't be trained with a high rep/high volume scheme…
If you get dodgy elbows from doing tons of pull-ups (even when starting slightly above regulation depth and finishing before the chin fully clears the bar), then I guess you will have to do some of that over-complicated stuff people recommend.
Negative one armers: done this before - painful.. keen to avoid!
Def. no negatives if you have dodgy elbows.
(I'm crap at one-armers though. PB is "one-and-a half" (couldn't clear the bar on rep 2). I can only do them when I have no access to a climbing gym and is forced to do some pull-ups training.)
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The way I got my one armer was to first get 20 two arm pull-ups in one go without much problem at least twice a week.
I found that most of the strength I needed was stabalising and in my shoulders so I also trained doing only the shoulder pull bit of the one arm pull up as this is where I found it took the most effort.
I then started doing 2 sets of 10 offset pull-ups gradually widening the gap between the hight of your hands.
about a month to six weeks in I tried and sucessfully managed a one armer. I continued this training for 3 months and in the end I could do 2-3 on my right arm and 2 on my left.
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do you want to be trying to do 1 armers if you have dodgy elbows???
Also training on a bachar ladder helps, again not good for elbows.
A large diameter bar also makes doing 1 armers easier
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do you want to be trying to do 1 armers if you have dodgy elbows???
Also training on a bachar ladder helps, again not good for elbows.
A large diameter bar also makes doing 1 armers easier
They're not dodgy Jim, but can easily become dodgy if that makes sense..
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Tom I have to say I think that trying to do high intensity maximal 1 rep max style exercises is more likely to lead to bad elbows that doing reps. Similar to the above, if I were you I'd be looking to find a weight i could complete 4-6 reps with, training at this weight and then reducing the weight to keep in this range of reps.
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Tom I have to say I think that trying to do high intensity maximal 1 rep max style exercises is more likely to lead to bad elbows that doing reps. Similar to the above, if I were you I'd be looking to find a weight i could complete 4-6 reps with, training at this weight and then reducing the weight to keep in this range of reps.
I have to say i have found the opposite (n=1). Never had any problems attempting one armers but high reps seem to lead to problems/niggles.
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Tom I have to say I think that trying to do high intensity maximal 1 rep max style exercises is more likely to lead to bad elbows that doing reps. Similar to the above, if I were you I'd be looking to find a weight i could complete 4-6 reps with, training at this weight and then reducing the weight to keep in this range of reps.
Most of my past elbow dodgyness has come from reps of pull ups (ie doing sets of 10 or more) - as well as on smaller holds..
That said, I take your advice above - 1 rep max is maybe a little too far and I need to be able to do at least 2 or 3.. Yesterday was 4-5 sets of two reps - with a 4-5 min break between.
Its interesting, I've been pissing about with this for the last couple of weeks and muscles in arms and shoulders feel used (good - as in an achy muscles being developed way) and [crosses fingers] not a sausage from my elbows - not even a mini pre twinge.. [/uncrosses fingers]. If I get an elbow twinge I'll probably can it - but I've not been this interested in training for 20 odd years...
Edit - just seen Chris' post.. interesting..
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I found that if you can lock off at various angles already then just doing the same with a weight belt on led to instant magic one armer.
I progressed from negatives to locks to negatives and locks with a belt pretty quickly, but I was only 20 at the time :)
I too have only really suffered with bad elbows from high volume.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
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Tom,
you do realise that doing multiple one armers will involve negative ones in between the up stages?
good reason to stop at one
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Tom,
you do realise that doing multiple one armers will involve negative ones in between the up stages?
good reason to stop at one
Yes - didnt explain myself well.. my reps of two involve go up - then plumet down :) then start again from bottom - so the negative is not really happening!
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so using the "bounce" at the bottom of the plummet to initiate the second rep?
sweet
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Don't plummet - that will involve a rapid release of tension which isn't great either. If and when you do a single one armer get hold of the bar with the other hand as well and lower down two handed in control.
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There's a big difference between forced negatives and the negative part of a movement one can actually perform
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Sure, but the first time he does it he's likely to have maxed out.
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Back in the day before someone had invented John Bacher and his ladder. We used to climb gym ropes or use an old climbing rope with knots roughly about a lock off apart. the idea was like a Bacher ladder but you are in a stronger pulling postion with your hand. Once at the top by any means, you can negative one armers all the way down.
I think Hull Uni gym has gym ropes ( Well it did 20 years ago )
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Hull Uni Gym! Webbo - I wouldnt dare mix with the
proles students there ;)
Well, I'm pretty sure 20kg is at my limit at the moment - as I cannot do any tonight with my jumper and jeans on - but can in my pants :D
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The mind boggles.
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The mind boggles.
Don't worry nothing else was boggling..
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Back in the day before someone had invented John Bacher and his ladder. We used to climb gym ropes or use an old climbing rope with knots roughly about a lock off apart. the idea was like a Bacher ladder but you are in a stronger pulling postion with your hand. Once at the top by any means, you can negative one armers all the way down.
I think Hull Uni gym has gym ropes ( Well it did 20 years ago )
I always liked that bit in Enter The Dragon where Bruce styles his way up the rope with legs L raised
Did Bruce Lee train in Hull?
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Yes - he buddied up with John Redhead
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There was a gentleman called Bruce Lee in Hull, I think he got sent to Rampton for setting fire to an Old Folks home.
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wow
if we did something like that in Sheffield, our trust would sack us for sure - getting a transfer would be extremely unlikely
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I think Hull Uni gym has gym ropes ( Well it did 20 years ago )
It did in 1987. It also had a 2m by 2m brick climing wall. I may exaggerate. It was probably a bit smaller.
Anyway, unbelievably, I feel I'm about to post a training tip. Somebody stop me.
What got me to one armers (okay a crap one on my left arm, two thirds of one on my right) was offset pullups on a metolius board. One hand on a jug, the other with fingers on the smallest edge. Four/three reps a few times a couple of times a weekl reduce number of fingers over a few weeks.
This does actually work - I got to a solid lock-off with a bit of upward motion within a couple of weeks. This was on a base of being able to bang out 25 or so decent pullups on a bar, which I've always been able to do though I'd not attempt a one armer now. Obviously it didn't make a blind bit of difference to my shite climbing. Not that that was why I wanted to do it. Equally obviously, I buggered my elbows leading to a lengthy lay-off. Yorkshire hvs' loss being surf/mtb/tri/other middleaged pursuits' gain.)
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Hull Uni Sports hall has a breeze block wall (outside the main hall) c. 20m long 2m high with a load of bolt on holds and chalked brick edges on it.. I have to admit I've only pulled on for a play once after i was playing 5 a side there.. Its not great and I've never seen anyone else on it (so I felt a bit daft playing on it!). I was an undergrad at Leeds (92-95) so remember their wall (bricks, features and the squash court part) though am not sure its still alive.. there is of course now RockCity but thats another story (don;t get me started) ;)
I'm actually really surprised I only need 20kg assistance on the one armers - as I've always felt much weaker than that - and never really trained for pull ups.. I guess years of increased grade climbing has naturally increased my arm strength..
Yesterday was session#5 on my assist set up and I'm feeling very positive about it all - no niggles or strains - just worked muscle feelings.. Lets see what happens - I'd like to drop a couple of KG in a week or two from the assist (which I may have to as MrsTT has already started asking where her 2 litre bottle of diet coke I nabbed as a weight has gone ;) )
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I'm actually really surprised I only need 20kg assistance on the one armers - as I've always felt much weaker than that - and never really trained for pull ups.. I guess years of increased grade climbing has naturally increased my arm strength..
Check how much resistance your pulley is giving you. Unless you're using a rescue pulley of some sort I'd imagine there's a bit there, if not a 'lot'.
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I'm actually really surprised I only need 20kg assistance on the one armers - as I've always felt much weaker than that - and never really trained for pull ups.. I guess years of increased grade climbing has naturally increased my arm strength..
Check how much resistance your pulley is giving you. Unless you're using a rescue pulley of some sort I'd imagine there's a bit there, if not a 'lot'.
Very little - I now have a slick pulley thanks to B&Q... at the top of the thread I confess how my original set up (rope over a hook) led to 10kg's worth of resistance (and made me think I was actually strong for a few weeks!)
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This smacks a bit of Sharks pimp my training regime thread. He asked for advice then ignored it all.
In other words you need to climb ropes, set fire to old folks homes and with any luck you won't have to live in Hull any more.
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I took your magic dog advice....
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Which the hair or the wee.
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Both!
I suppose the rope climbing skills will help me bust out of prison after setting fire to the old folks home...
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Anyhow back to the training. The old Leeds wall was where I learnt to do a one armers. Above the door way was a large pocket where you could practice your one armers as you could start the pull up with a bent arm. Starting like this you can initiate the pull in a stronger position, as you get better you can start lower with your legs bent.
However as they've demolished the old wall, I reckon arson or a Lagers training strategy are your only hopes.
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Hull Uni Sports hall has a breeze block wall (outside the main hall) c. 20m long 2m high with a load of bolt on holds and chalked brick edges on it.. I have to admit I've only pulled on for a play once after i was playing 5 a side there.. Its not great and I've never seen anyone else on it (so I felt a bit daft playing on it!).
I've paid my dues in that corridor! Seem to remember timing my visits so as to not feel/look like too much of a weirdo with the passing netball teams, etc. Definitely not one for the self-conscious. Mad Mick was(presumably still is!) king of the corridor I think.
Good luck with the one armer mission :strongbench:
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I've paid my dues in that corridor!
...is my memory competely shot? In 1988 (ie quite recently) there was a conpicuously positioned tiny brick training traning wall in the corridor by the main door, usually occupied by spanish(ish) guys likely to be known by some on here... I spent approx 2 mins on this (but was quite good at deadlifting). Unless I dreampt the whole hullish interlude after a quiet pint with ollie reed. The more I think about it the more likely this seems.
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I'll wander over and have a look later in the week and check for you if you like...
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I heard that unless you can one arm the 35s on a Beastmaker you're not allowed to start trying 8As
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I've paid my dues in that corridor!
...is my memory competely shot? In 1988 (ie quite recently) there was a conpicuously positioned tiny brick training traning wall in the corridor by the main door, usually occupied by spanish(ish) guys likely to be known by some on here... I spent approx 2 mins on this (but was quite good at deadlifting). Unless I dreampt the whole hullish interlude after a quiet pint with ollie reed. The more I think about it the more likely this seems.
No I don't think you are wrong, the tiny bit was the original wall i.e. chipped holds and bits of rock cemented in. At some point the uni club bought some bolt ons and stuck them down a fair bit of the corridor. It still qualified as the shittest wall ever. The Spanish guy Juan? is no longer there having moved to Sheffield some years ago.
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Jumpers for goalposts... Sorry for hijack.
Simon's the only name I recall from that grp. Also moved to Sheff. (We`ve established the shiteness of my memory... My few months in hull was the only time I joined a uni club, distance from crag related. In fact the most impressive one armer feat I've seen was on a weekend trip leaving the pub in Borrowdale, some of em were doing pullups on the carpark van keeper outer bar thingy. The one sober guy who was driving the van just reached up and calmly did five or so one armer's with his jacket on. I'm impressed by that sort of thing.
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Tom It seems to me that the way forward in your quest for the elusive one armer lies at Hull uni. All the signs are pointing that way, you just need to get down with the kids.
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No Hull wall progress I'm afraid - but after two days rest - and post Trowbarrow session, I've just pissed a set of reps with +20KG.
Time to drop a couple of KG this week...
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Pete Chadwick showed me an interesting technique for working towards a one armer tonight, using a fingerboard/hold hung parallel to but a couple of feet out from a flat vertical surface (otherwise known as a wall) - luckily, just what I have in the garage. Pete demonstrated, putting his free hand flat on the wall and doing a one armer easily. Feeling very sceptical I had a go and did a pretty convincing imitation of a one armer first go - certainly the closest I've ever got and I've been doing no pull-ups/weights etc recently. Undoubtedly as I getting some downward push through the wall but not huge amounts; its something to do with giving the other shoulder enough stability to pull properly through it? As it gets easier, just move the hand lower and lower.
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Dropped to 18kgs last week... just done a couple at 15kgs...
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Pete Chadwick showed me an interesting technique...,
... putting his free hand flat on the wall and doing a one armer easily... .
Hi all,
Since I am trying to fight my "one-armism" (terrible weakness on any trials of pull/lock using one arm) I was trying this method also and indeed found it very interesting: I was trying to do one armer with pronated arm (if doing without second hand help - NOT EVEN CLOSE to do so, only very terrible locking). Pressing second hand flat to wall or putting very top of its pinkie on 5mm jamb I was able to do 2 almost proper one armers.
Anyway it is very interesting issue, how to go 2->1 arm exercises, when You feel very strong on two arms but cannot just start of anything with one of them. For me CWP method (with sling or cord assist) is not working at all - I am subconsciously starting to pull from the string like crazy.
So far I have found, that it is advisable to use support of very different type: for example FRICTION from second hand, not to have possibility of squeezing even smallest hold or sling. I will try to use thick cord or friction from feet to exclude upper body help at all.
Luk
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I agree I think holding the cord gives you false gains. Ie for the sake of the exercise I can pull/push as much with a finger and thumb on the cord as my whole hand. Putting the weight onto a harness when going through a pulley gives better results I think
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I've paid my dues in that corridor!
...is my memory competely shot? In 1988 (ie quite recently) there was a conpicuously positioned tiny brick training traning wall in the corridor by the main door, usually occupied by spanish(ish) guys likely to be known by some on here... I spent approx 2 mins on this (but was quite good at deadlifting). Unless I dreampt the whole hullish interlude after a quiet pint with ollie reed. The more I think about it the more likely this seems.
Fuck me, you definitely took too much speed in Hull...
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Fuck me, you definitely took too much speed in Hull...
...stand by for a snappy comeback.
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Dropped to 18kgs last week... just done a couple at 15kgs...
Just revisited these for the first time in over a year... two reps at 14kg... :)
Though I am 3kg lighter!!
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One armers make me sad, I have been stuck at 1.5kg assist with a proper pulley for months now. Lately I have just decided to fuck it and boulder on a steep wall, that is what the godly people say works better for one arms
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Thanks for the comments... some of my thoughts..
Do more pull ups: Won't this just make me better at doing two armed pull ups?
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I've also had slightly wonky elbows in the past, so keen to avoid reps - but work on the power (low reps, high weight)... Interestingly not a murmur from my elbows so far compared to normal pull up training (that I've done) - maybe the different geomettry/bod alignment with assisted one armers is better for them???
I found the same. Interesting.
Anyone else experience the same?
My thoughts on greater resistance/lower reps, is that the lower resistance work allows us to "train" when we're too tired. Possibly more emphasis on better quality of output when doing very low rep work?
Re your comments about negative OAPs, I've found weighted negatives a great way to up the intensity at both the top and bottom of the movement. Maybe the odd set of these would help?
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I am still a bit of a punter at the one-arms, but I tend to do them with about a 4 kg assist. When the stars align correctly I can do them without the assist. I have found there are various "weak" points in the one-arm that are very difficult to train by simply doing a one-arm. You might look at what parts of the motion are really hard and train those.
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I am still a bit of a punter at the one-arms, but I tend to do them with about a 4 kg assist. When the stars align correctly I can do them without the assist. I have found there are various "weak" points in the one-arm that are very difficult to train by simply doing a one-arm. You might look at what parts of the motion are really hard and train those.
Any ideas on how to improve the start where you pull out of straight arm? I have been doing pulley one arms for ages now and still cant pull into a bent position from straight when I try to use no assistance.
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There's some technique in breaking the lock unless you are a total beast, try bringing your other arm across your body to engage your chest and the other shoulder (see here from about 6 mins)
http://vimeo.com/5126177
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I'm not really that fussed about getting from straight to bent arm.. I know its a bit of a party trick manoeuvre, but in a climbing context you are much less likely to be straight armed when you go into one...
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I'm not really that fussed about getting from straight to bent arm.. I know its a bit of a party trick manoeuvre, but in a climbing context you are much less likely to be straight armed when you go into one...
I think the main reason I want to be able to do a one arm with full range of motion is that it shows more strength, and means that I could probably lock more easily on a problem. And for the party trick value of course. Mostly for that reason actually...
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:)
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I am still a bit of a punter at the one-arms, but I tend to do them with about a 4 kg assist. When the stars align correctly I can do them without the assist. I have found there are various "weak" points in the one-arm that are very difficult to train by simply doing a one-arm. You might look at what parts of the motion are really hard and train those.
Any ideas on how to improve the start where you pull out of straight arm? I have been doing pulley one arms for ages now and still cant pull into a bent position from straight when I try to use no assistance.
Just a few random ideas: do eccentrics with additional weight in the range where you are having problems. So bodyweight + added weight on your harness. It is tricky to do this with a dumbbell since you need both arms to get you in position to do the eccentric.
I find with the assist I tend to kip at the bottom, which does absolutely no good in the progression. You end up getting really good at the top half while being continuously weak in the bottom.
Word of warning: I have wasted a lot of time training these thinking they would be of some value. Sadly it took me longer to realize how worthless they are. :wall:
There are probably people on here who can give far better advice.
Good luck!
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Word of warning: I have wasted a lot of time training these thinking they would be of some value. Sadly it took me longer to realize how worthless they are. :wall:
This. Understand very clearly why you're doing them.
I am training them because I want to do the party trick not because I think they will help my climbing.
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:D yes me too.. Though the ability to lock off (which will be helped by the training) will I think be v useful..
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They definitely don't do a lot for climbing, other than the lock off strength. My hardest boulder is V6, and i did 3 one armers last night.
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Does anyone actually lock off with their hand by their chin when climbing? :-\
People talk about it helping their lockoff strength, but I can lockoff like a mofo on anything other than a roof and I'm currently at -10kgs for my 1-arm PU. I find lockoffs tend to be more core and shoulder related. I think if I wanted to train lockoff strength, I'd use a system board, not pullups. my $.02...
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Holding positions on the wall is better than 1-arming for lock off training IMO - take good hold, rockover/twist/whatever, hold deep lock. I agree that my shoulders are often what feel like the limiting factor on that kind of move
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+1
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I can certainly see that. But if its also a bonus of party trick training... ;)
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My set up: the coke bottle is one of my 2Kg weights :)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/01/1c631ef52667542123ddfddfb35659a9.jpg)
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haven't trained for or tried a one armer for ages. Tried one randomly at Rubicon the other day and managed both arms. All you need to do is strength work and hard bouldering and it'll take care of itself. Of course, if you are enjoying the process then carry on, not sure where these party tricks are performed though, never been to a party like that.
And the exercise abarro81 suggests is really good and more climbing specific, I do them reaching as far to the side and as far up as possible, also laps of 10 reps, pausing locked off at the shoulder for a few seconds. Good to do after bouldering when fingers are gone but there's still juice in the shoulders.
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not sure where these party tricks are performed though, never been to a party like that.
What? Truly?
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My set up
Do you train on a sinking ship?
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My set up
Do you train on a sinking ship?
glug glug glug...