UKBouldering.com
places to visit => indoor walls => competitions => Topic started by: Muenchener on January 27, 2017, 03:16:34 pm
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Is the calendar of boulder world cup rounds available anywhere yet? Not on the IFSC's comically inept website.
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Somebody posted a provisional one up on the IFSC 2016 thread a while back...
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2017 IFSC Bouldering World Cup provisional calendar:
| Final | Date | Venue | Country |
| Sat | 08/04/2017 | Meiringen | Switzerland |
| Sun | 23/04/2017 | Chongqing | China |
| Sun | 30/04/2017 | Nanjing | China |
| Sun | 07/05/2017 | Tokyo | Japan |
| Sun | 21/05/2017 | Amsterdam | Netherlands |
| Sun | 11/06/2017 | Vail | USA |
| Sun | 25/06/2017 | Mumbai | India |
| Sat | 19/08/2017 | Munich | Germany |
In additional there's:
| Date | Event | Venue | Country |
| 26/02/2017 | CISM World Winter Games | Sochi | Russia |
| 25-26/03/2017 | Studio Bloc Masters | Pfungstadt | Germany |
| 21-23/07/2017 | The World Games | Wroclaw | Poland |
| 25-26/05/2017 | ROCKMASTER | Arco | Italy |
The two World Games events feature Lead, Speed and Bouldering but I don't know if they are stand alone competitions or combined like the Olympics proposal.
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Events also listed here:
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar
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Thanks.
I tried the IFSC claendar page a couple of hours ago but it came up blank, as pages on that website often do.
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Thanks.
I tried the IFSC claendar page a couple of hours ago but it came up blank, as pages on that website often do.
Strange as often people tell me that suchandsuchapage is not there but when I look it is always there, including just now.
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The most annoying things about the IFSC website is how the live results are in the calendar section not results section and how hard it is to find the back-up stream (when there is one!).
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Thanks.
I tried the IFSC claendar page a couple of hours ago but it came up blank, as pages on that website often do.
Strange as often people tell me that suchandsuchapage is not there but when I look it is always there, including just now.
Depends what you mean by "not there". Generally in my experience the links are there and there's no error, the page just comes up empty. Happens to me quite frequently - right now on "World Competitions / Calendar" for example, nothing coming up on a Mac, tried with two different browsers, working fine on my phone.
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Thanks.
I tried the IFSC claendar page a couple of hours ago but it came up blank, as pages on that website often do.
Strange as often people tell me that suchandsuchapage is not there but when I look it is always there, including just now.
Depends what you mean by "not there". Generally in my experience the links are there and there's no error, the page just comes up empty. Happens to me quite frequently - right now on "World Competitions / Calendar" for example, nothing coming up on a Mac, tried with two different browsers, working fine on my phone.
I can see Calendar right now. My guess is it is a Mac thing as people that I know who say they don't see anything are on Mac. But half the IFSC people use Mac's. So I don't know.
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I can see Calendar right now. My guess is it is a Mac thing as people that I know who say they don't see anything are on Mac. But half the IFSC people use Mac's. So I don't know.
Nope, had the same problem Friday afternoon on my Windows laptop at work. And the calendar page is loading fine now on my Mac, just like it wasn't three hours ago.
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Just noticed that the IFSC calendar no longer lists the Amsterdam or Mumbai WC's. Six events means the overall winner will be decided from their five best results.
Shame about Amsterdam, that could've been a great weekend of comps and tulips.
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and shmoke and pancakes.
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I can see Calendar right now. My guess is it is a Mac thing as people that I know who say they don't see anything are on Mac. But half the IFSC people use Mac's. So I don't know.
Nope, had the same problem Friday afternoon on my Windows laptop at work. And the calendar page is loading fine now on my Mac, just like it wasn't three hours ago.
I have just been told by someone who makes Marvin look a bit dense, that maybe the problem is http vs https :-)
Check that you are using http://www.ifsc-climbing.org
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Just noticed that the IFSC calendar no longer lists the Amsterdam or Mumbai WC's. Six events means the overall winner will be decided from their five best results.
Shame about Amsterdam, that could've been a great weekend of comps and tulips.
Mumbai's (back?) on the list - 24th & 25th June.
Anyone going to nail some predictions to the mast?
Men: Chon
Women: Coxsey
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Anyone know what the deal with Munich is? It's showing in the IFSC calendar as European championships (B) and World cup (B) on the same weekend.
Can't be both Shirley.
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Starter lists are up:
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!type=starters&comp=6158
No Pooch? :boohoo: Thought she was mended now.
JarJar and MM could put some pressure on Shauna. Interesting to see how Leah does this year too.
Very strong men's field - and some surprises too; Daniel Woods? Only because he's in the area, or is he doing the season? Tyler too :D
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If Janja improves (even a little) at reading the boulders (and she attends the events) I think she'll smash Shauna.
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MM didn’t look as awesome in the ABS Nationals a few weeks ago as she did in last year’s World Cup. Perhaps just not peaked though.
Also, the other channel seems to think Anna Stöhr is doing the full series again this year. True?
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If Janja improves (even a little) at reading the boulders (and she attends the events) I think she'll smash Shauna.
Not sure I agree with you. She seemed to lack the raw power required for some of the boulder problems. And whilst she could flex her way through some of them, I don't think she'll be quite up there.
Compounded with the stoopid 4-minute cap which will possibly (likely?) lead to more dynamic/thuggy problems to get more attempts rather than slow technical routes, I don't see this working in her favour.
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If Janja improves (even a little) at reading the boulders (and she attends the events) I think she'll smash Shauna.
Not sure I agree with you. She seemed to lack the raw power required for some of the boulder problems.
Dunno about this. I watched her in the semis ofwhatever round last year. She looked miles stronger than the rest of the field, crushing moves that other top women struggled on. Then in the finals she looked weaker, so I suspect it was more of a fatigue thing than lack of strength.
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If Janja improves (even a little) at reading the boulders (and she attends the events) I think she'll smash Shauna.
Not sure I agree with you. She seemed to lack the raw power required for some of the boulder problems.
Dunno about this. I watched her in the semis ofwhatever round last year. She looked miles stronger than the rest of the field, crushing moves that other top women struggled on. Then in the finals she looked weaker, so I suspect it was more of a fatigue thing than lack of strength.
It seemed to me that all she did wrong in the finals was misread things that others read well.
I suspect she has more comp endurance than any of them, I'd struggle to justify that with anything empirical though, it just never seemed to me as she was tired at all at any point I've watched her.
Also she was an absolute freak at BIFF 2016.
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Errr, no more free streaming?
https://www.facebook.com/OnBoulderingNews/posts/1437487716312205
https://www.facebook.com/sportclimbing/posts/1294467280644409
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Well that's daft if true
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Errr, no more free streaming?
https://www.facebook.com/OnBoulderingNews/posts/1437487716312205
https://www.facebook.com/sportclimbing/posts/1294467280644409
Some more info on the IFSC website here (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/909-ifsc-and-flosports-sign-online-streaming-deal). Subscription prices to FloClimbing are $150 a year or $20 a month.
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April fools surely?
But maybe not... :boohoo:
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:shit:
:badidea:
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From IFSC facebook:
It's official, #IFSCwc this year will be streamed LIVE on FloClimbing! Tune-in for the first #bouldering event in Meiringen on April 8th, and also stay tuned for original athlete documentaries, technique breakdowns, news, highlights, interviews and more!
It only mentions streaming so maybe the full comps will be uploaded to youtube at a later date..
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Talk about throttling the golden goose
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So it looks like you can pay for one month for $20 and the first four comps are all within one month so $5/comp. I would hope for a much higher quality stream/camerawork etc than previous years if I was paying for it though.
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Am i the only one who finds this sadly inevitable? Get the viewing figures up for the olympic bid, then bleed your cash cow dry.
It sounds like the comp footage will not be free, but there may be interviews and summary vids for free..
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What I find odd - is the new 4-minute rule was introduced for TV, yet they've now just signed an exclusive (I think?) deal with an online streaming service, so the need to limit times is less important.
Edit: The deal doesn't cover TV
Also think it's :shit: to do this a) generally and b) 2 days before the event.
I like the IFSC's post of "It's Official!" like this is both a good thing, and a something we all kinda knew anyway.
Utterly rubbish.
Hard to decipher, but this does suggest that non-live streams will be free still?
IFSC suggest not:
Archived Competition Footage
During the weekend, archived footage from the competition will be stored in a video library for FloPRO subscribers to watch for the duration of their subscription.
So, if I'm reading this right, you now have to pay to see any IFSC bouldering comps?
*slow clap*
There go the viewing figures.
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It only mentions streaming so maybe the full comps will be uploaded to youtube at a later date..
Would be nice, but I suspect unlikely. I predict viewing figures of 20% of previous.
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Also - seems crazy they've signed a 3 year contract?
Surely you'd trial a single season first?
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I think we should crowdsource Liam to go to each one and Periscope it for free (probably have to be covertly...)
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What a load of utter shit....
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The world surf league looked at this a few years back but deemed that they would loose so many people it wasnt the way forward. They also signed a deal for the streaming rights but i guess more for the platform it ran on. They then increased the quality massively and made it very professional but its still FREE.
Viewing figures jumped up and they sell loads more advertisements.
How many people watch the comps. Surfing always quotes massive figures (1.9 million individual views is the most) but i believe that these are based on the whole event which can be 10-12 days. I believe the peak is only 50000 simultaneously.
I for one will not be paying $20 a month to watch. Netflix is only $10.
Just when you thought the IFSC was going in the right direction they do this.
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I just checked and you can get the whole Sky sports bundle for $60. Why the fuck would i pay $20 to watch 6-8 events in a year, 2 of which wont be on live anyway as there in China.
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Any idea on the viewing figures comparison to surfing and climbing?
I imagine surfing has a much larger audience, and if they couldn't pull off PPV, climbing won't be able to.
Did the IFSC do any market research on this? From my experience, people only watch bouldering OR lead OR speed, not all three, so $20 p/m is a lot to pay when you're only watching 1/3 of the content "of interest" (discounting the fact I likely won't watch wrestling or running...).
Also, I don't have a Roku or AppleTV, so can't watch on the TV anymore.
And I don't want to subscribe in $ and get hit with a transaction fee everytime.
How do I start a MONC in the IFSC? ;)
If they needed money, put more adverts into the stream?
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I just checked and you can get the whole Sky sports bundle for $60. Why the fuck would i pay $20 to watch 6-8 events in a year, 2 of which wont be on live anyway as there in China.
$150 for a year... $20 per month!
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I wouldn't be too happy if I were over-caffeinated sugary drink company right now
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I just checked and you can get the whole Sky sports bundle for $60. Why the fuck would i pay $20 to watch 6-8 events in a year, 2 of which wont be on live anyway as there in China.
$150 for a year... $20 per month!
Sky is $60 per month $720 per year. I guess my sentence structure wasn't very good.
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Based on the quality of their decision making recently, the IFSC have hired the freshly unemployed Bernie Ecclestone as a consultant...
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I wouldn't be too happy if I were over-caffeinated sugary drink company right now
You are the stasi and I claim my 5 marks.
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What a horrible, horrible mistake...
Guess I'm watching whatever highlights come my way.
Maybe the (incredibly deluded) aim is to convince more people to attend the live events?
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How do we start a vote of no confidence in the IFSC then?
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IFSC must be really broke to think this this is a good idea. Paying 20 bucks to see a chaotic comp in China.... eh... I'll pass
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How do we start a vote of no confidence in the IFSC then?
This seems like a good start... https://www.change.org/p/cancel-the-ifsc-live-streaming-subscription-fees
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The Austrian Climbing Federation already have: https://www.facebook.com/austriaclimbing/photos/a.216142691754567.56462.131164916919012/1323435881025237/?type=3
Looks like the national member organisations were just as ambushed as everybody else.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170406/25bb2bb798413401aa6a6a1b5a3c63ec.jpg)
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Where's Graeme?
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Would anyone ever pay to watch a speed climbing event anyway? Surely you can just watch last year's one and then look at the results.
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From 8A.nu Quote from IFSC just 3 weeks ago.
"We expect to convince IOC, but not only, that hopefully before 2020 that we deserve some help, because the sport is growing to fast and we do not have the resources to manage the sport. If it goes on in this way and our income does not increase and therefore we are not able to hire additional human resources. We will become victim of our success."
Sounds like they may be struggling for investment to do everything they want/need to do and so they have chosen to go down this route. Maybe this deal takes over the development and large costs of getting the live broadcast out. Still completely the wrong decision but i suspect a quicker and easier way to get cash than trying to persuade sponsors.
I have not seen one positive comment anywhere about it and think they really have messed up.
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Where's Graeme?
scuba diving in a vat of crystal with Richard Branson and Robert Maxwell on the moon
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Where's Graeme?
Meiringen - but he's said on the other channel he's not going to comment, beyond "No Comment".
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Ondra:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BSiYBodlTq0/
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Given this and the 4 minute nonsense, what the fuck is going on at the IFSC? Are they really on the brink of going bust or something? - tbh I think it'd have been better to cancel the livestreams if the costs of running them were too high, at least they wouldn't be locked in to this bullshit for 3 years. Makes me (almost) have some sympathy for the BMC 30's "life president" gripes with the IFSC.
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My concern is that obviously FLOclimbing (not heard of the organisation before, is it an offshoot if IFS or independent) have paid the IFSC for the rights to stream and charge, if they make less than they paid for the rights (which wouldn't surprise me) would they go after the IFSC for being sold a pig in a poke?
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If they needed money, put more adverts into the stream?
+1. Complete lack of imagination.
If it'd been a few quid I would've subscribed.
20 whatevers/month is pretty laughable considering the previous quality of the stream.
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Megos: https://www.instagram.com/p/BShNHNChnBy/
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Jorg: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSgxE6wj0lQ/
Jakob: https://www.instagram.com/p/BShA7UtFuhj/
Katha: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSgu_BtgduV/
Austria Climbing: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSgxI3qDGR2
Russia Climbing: https://www.instagram.com/p/BShGviKAeFo/
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Loam Lonsdale has written a bit about it: http://www.liamlonsdale.com/journal/ifsc-flosport
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https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54bfe6aee4b0e4c01b85d532/t/58e5287bdb29d69a40f816c4/1491413121519/?format=1500w
Looking at this image from Liam's blog it sounds like the comps are broadcast on Japanese TV. I wonder how hard it would be to find a stream of the channel or the Japanese live stream?
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Ha - good spot! So The subscription price also includes one which is free to view too?
Also on FB:
Katharina Saurwein Why not close the competition venue for the public so that we have even less poeple watching the comps???
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Presumably FloSports will end up discounting it heavily or doing some form of promotion. I wonder how many people who previously watched the live streams would pay anything though?
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Can't find any positive comments about it anywhere... I am properly gutted. We, as a family, have been talking about it and looking forward to it for ages. The IFSC have been hyping it up, getting us all excited and then shut everyone down two days before the event. The Noodle (8) had even shown a proper interest for once... :thumbsdown:
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Presumably FloSports will end up discounting it heavily or doing some form of promotion. I wonder how many people who previously watched the live streams would pay anything though?
I think i watched 1 or 2 last year, but only half watch them. I personally would maybe pay a pound or so, no more.
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I've paid for tickets for live boulder world cup events, twice, and had an absolutely great time at both of them. I would again this year, but am likely to be visiting family in England when the Munich event is on. :(
I wouldn't have a huge problem with reasonably priced pay per view - I'm sure producing and filming the events is expensive - but I'm certainly not paying those subscription prices.
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Seems both the Beacon and the Hangar will be showing the live stream...
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No word from Shauna or the other GB climbers yet?
Also what's the legality of showing the live stream in a public venue?
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No word from Shauna or the other GB climbers yet?
Also what's the legality of showing the live stream in a public venue?
I think Shauna and or Leah have tweeted about the non optimal situation... though they probably have to be careful about biting the hand that feeds them etc..
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Well, the hand the feeds them (triple-stripe and sugary drink manufacturer) surely gets less from sponsorship if nobody watches them compete? It's almost impossible in this day and age to avoid the results of sporting events and I think even if it's free, watching it after, will be less engaging.
Basically it's a pants decision and even if they did need/want to monetise it, IMO they're far too premature. The cost is ludicrous (>Netflix / Now TV).
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Seems both the Beacon and the Hangar will be showing the live stream...
Whilst admirable (and against Flo's terms and conditions) part of me wishes they didn't, as this is still giving money to them. Granted, 50 people watching at a single venue is a lot less than those 50 paying individually, but still - an overall boycott would be more effective.
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What an impressive act of greed and fuckwittery. I've been enjoying the IFSC streams of both lead and bouldering (speed is wank and should be abolished) over the last few yrs to the extent that I was planning to go to a live event this yr in Europe, incorporated into a climbing holiday obviously. Don't think I'll bother now.
4min rule, as seen at CWIF, also removes a lot of the drama.
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No word from Shauna or the other GB climbers yet?
Also what's the legality of showing the live stream in a public venue?
There seems to be "some" dissent amongst the competitors.
A smidge, at least.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170406/7dc1baa85c722969245524fc4a33c87f.jpg)
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And...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170406/c2bc756d46006ccf4889f4731ddc7908.jpg)
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People have been talking a lot about the EU when what really matters is the IFSC. We need to take back control and make British comp climbing great again.
Every year we send the IFSC £250,000
Ifsc what a bunch of :wank:
#makebritaingreatagain #wewantoursportback
:popcorn:
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Idiots. I really like watching the bouldering, but I won't be paying that. I might've paid a couple of quid per comp, tops, on a PPV basis, IF the stream quality was good. Killing the 4+ is also nonsense. It's not like other sports don't have time issues—and some of them are massive in comparison to climbing. What about 5 set epics in tennis? What about KOs after 1 round in boxing? Fuck right off.
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So who even are the IFSC anyway? Sounds like another one of these shadowy evil secrect societies to me, like the Masons or FIFA.
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Head in sand much...
https://www.facebook.com/sportclimbing/posts/1295983403826130:0
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sense?
https://www.facebook.com/BritishMountaineeringCouncil/posts/10155909173750828
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U Turn?
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/910-meiringen-world-cup-free-of-charge
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I reckon FloClimbing, just got the agreement signed with IFSC, then charged what they (for all i know it might even be one person) thought they could get away with.
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Possibly, though from some Googling, their BJJ and running prices are around the same.
Be interesting if it comes down to haggling... I'm trying to think what I would pay... especially for an unknown quantity. Will watch the free stream and see what's what.
I think they'll struggle though - the global nature of the IFSC means a price point will have to be acceptable for all countries allowing for exchange rates and general cost of living.
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As I said before, would begrudgingly pay a pound or two, but on principle probably not. Thing is quality live streaming of sport takes a lot of effort, you should ideally have at least a couple of cameramen and then someone directing to switch feeds as an when the action happens.
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https://www.facebook.com/kelisikoa/videos/10212936808640129/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
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I'd very def only pay on a PPV basis, and then not much tbh.
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U Turn?
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/910-meiringen-world-cup-free-of-charge
Sounds like a free trial being discussed. naaaaaaaaaa
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https://www.facebook.com/kelisikoa/videos/10212936808640129/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
Nice - but turn the phone round man!
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Is it the top 40 men and women through to semis? If so, we've got Billy Ridal and Nathan Phillips potentially through :)
Just read it's 20 so no-one currently through :(
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http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition#!comp=6158&cat=6
Don't think they're quite finished yet, but some big names out if it stays like this,
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Shauna qualifies in joint first http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition#!comp=6158&cat=5
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For all the SBC haters out there... she just beat Akiyo... holy crap!
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U Turn?
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/910-meiringen-world-cup-free-of-charge
Sounds like a free trial being discussed. naaaaaaaaaa
As I understand it you need to enter your card details and the unsubscribing process is somewhat awkward. Seems like some dark patterns (https://darkpatterns.org/) kind of behaviour from FloClimbing and something that the IFSC should not be condoning. Not at all a U-turn nor even a step in the right direction as far as I can tell.
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For all the SBC haters out there... she just beat Akiyo... holy crap!
I had a little grin to myself, when she made semis.
A spoilt rich girl, for sure, but she must be putting the hours in on the training.
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Latest from IFSC:
"IFSC Bouldering World Cup Meiringen will be live streamed on the IFSC YouTube channel and on the IFSC homepage.
FloSports will give a full refund to those who have already subscribed.
Tune-in April 8 at 11:00 for Semi-Finals and 18:30 for Finals (GMT+2), and enjoy the first IFSC World Cup of the 2017 season!"
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/911-meiringen-live-streaming-on-ifsc-youtube-channel
No word if this is just for Meiringen or the whole season, but looks like I'll be sat in front of my TV tomorrow afternoon.
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Good news!
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So Shauna obviously crushed it. Watching snippets of the final I thought she looked in a different class.
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U Turn?
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/910-meiringen-world-cup-free-of-charge
Sounds like a free trial being discussed. naaaaaaaaaa
As I understand it you need to enter your card details and the unsubscribing process is somewhat awkward. Seems like some dark patterns (https://darkpatterns.org/) kind of behaviour from FloClimbing and something that the IFSC should not be condoning. Not at all a U-turn nor even a step in the right direction as far as I can tell.
Looks like I was wrong about this - hosting the stream on YouTube was a good step in the right direction again!
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Seems Flo are biding their time. The petition organiser seems to think that it's over and Flo are here to stay.
https://www.change.org/p/cancel-the-ifsc-live-streaming-subscription-fees/u/19965728
Any corporate law types around? Thought that an organisation that took a single bid/didn't go to tender over a certain value (50K?) was at risk of an anti-competition law suite from competitors.
Even so, not getting a couple of other proposals to confirm your getting the best deal is a bit dumb.
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Text of abovenlink here.
9 APR 2017 — Over the last few days, there have been several developments regarding the IFSC & FloSports live-streaming deal. It was wonderful to watch this weekend's competition free on YouTube, but the future of live-streaming for the sport still hangs in the balance. We've been asking ourselves, if this deal is so obviously bad, why did IFSC announce it in the first place?
We've spoken with IFSC directly to try and find answers. Here is what we've learned so far about their decision-making process regarding live-streaming:
• IFSC have refused to provide us with evidence that they engaged in professional consultation with a third-party regarding live-streaming solutions, prior to (or during) negotiations with FloSports.
• No evidence of consultation with the community, athletes or IFSC partners.
• We were told that negotiations with FloSports took a year, and that they will have a single-day meeting with FloSports during the week to revise the deal.
• According to IFSC, future live-streams and full replay access will still require a FloSports subscription. We were told that select highlights will be available for free on YouTube after each event.
• No tender process. FloSports was awarded the contract because they were first to approach IFSC and are more reliable than YouTube according to IFSC.
• According to a not-for-profit marketplace watchdog, Better Business Bureau, FloSports has 96% negative reviews. Users have reported poor stream quality, dropped coverage, incorrect billing and poor customer service – https://www.bbb.org/central-texas/business-reviews/internet-services/flosports-inc-in-austin-tx-1000108975
• IFSC insist that YouTube officials said YouTube was not suitable for long live-streams. IFSC refused to send us their email correspondence with YouTube in which these claims were allegedly made.
• We were told that sponsors see little value in a YouTube live-stream and pushed instead for a monetised television network deal. We were not provided details on who those sponsors are.
• IFSC told us that most issues relating to stream stability at past events were caused by YouTube and not due to internet connection issues, encoding issues or on-site hardware issues.
• Despite telling us that a lack of sponsor funding and monetisation is the catalyst for change, IFSC refused to provide specific costing details, records of how money has been spent on live-streaming in the past or future cost projections.
• IFSC did not specify the status of the deal. We have not been told what agreements have been signed between IFSC and FloSports.
On the IFSC homepage, Marco Maria Scolaris (IFSC President) promotes "good governance", "transparency" and "athletes [sic] inclusion in the IF decision-making processes at all levels". Marco Maria Scolaris' job as IFSC President is to govern in a way that reflects those values, not to do the opposite. In this sense, we believe he has failed as IFSC President. With climbing en route to the Olympics, we feel the federation needs a stronger, more qualified leadership team than ever – and one that practices the values it preaches.
Marco Maria Scolaris, if you are listening, come out of the dark and give the international community the honest, transparent response they deserve.
Peter Crane.
For a highly in-depth breakdown of everything so far, make sure you read this article by Liam Lonsdale – http://www.liamlonsdale.com/journal/ifsc-flosportpt-ii
Cover photo by Liam Lonsdale – [emoji767] L LONSDALE 2017
An important note: We all need to keep in mind that IFSC were not obligated to provide us with any evidence or information. What you read above has derived from extensive conversations with IFSC and our own research. We will continue to stand up on behalf of the international climbing community by questioning and openly investigating the decisions made by the federation.
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The Comp
I feel mildly smug about my prediction. Shauna was a class above everyone else. Whether this was experience, confidence or just power & reading skills - just dominated.
Hopefully, for interest, the other comps are a little closer.
For men, a minor repeat of CWIF with perhaps a too few tops - though I think we would've seen M1 get done in 4+. Individually the problems were exciting though and Rei getting M4 was ace.
Also thought the commentators were better, having three was good (though a few teething problems interupting each other), but overall the production was sound.
One classic glitch when two athletes were heading to the top so they cut away to the crowd...
The Situation
The whole thing stinks. If the above is true, and FloSports were in talks for a year, why was it not mentioned at the Plenery Assembly and how come none of the athletes new about it?
"FloSports came to us" is not a good enough reason not to investigate other suppliers or other options.
If it's not backhanders, it's certainly poor governance.
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Great display from Shauna :weakbench:
Re the 4 minute rule, I think it may work!? I agree the suspense created by having a competitor on the wall after the 4 minutes were up was great and I'm not saying the new rule is better but it certainly adds a different kind of pressure. Will be interesting to see how competitors adapt over the course of the season (assuming we can watch any more of it that is...)
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The Comp
I feel mildly smug about my prediction. Shauna was a class above everyone else. Whether this was experience, confidence or just power & reading skills - just dominated.
Hopefully, for interest, the other comps are a little closer.
For men, a minor repeat of CWIF with perhaps a too few tops - though I think we would've seen M1 get done in 4+. Individually the problems were exciting though and Rei getting M4 was ace.
Also thought the commentators were better, having three was good (though a few teething problems interupting each other), but overall the production was sound.
One classic glitch when two athletes were heading to the top so they cut away to the crowd...
I bow to your predictions :thumbsup:
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I bow to your predictions :thumbsup:
Ha, one down - five to go... And my Male prediction didn't even make semi's
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For men, a minor repeat of CWIF with perhaps a too few tops - though I think we would've seen M1 get done in 4+. Individually the problems were exciting though and Rei getting M4 was ace.
I disagree about M1, it was just too hard. Probably compounded by the conditions (see below).
And I reckon Rei might have blown M4 with 4+ as he would have moved slower and greased off.
Problem was the massive temperature and humidity change that occurred once you add a couple of thousand people in the building plus a massive lighting rig. Not sure how you can re-create competition conditions though without spending an awful lot - Meiringen comp is inside a tennis centre, turning the air con up for the whole of the setting would cost a LOT of cash, especially when you factor in lost 'earnings'.
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Liked the comp especially the girls. Problems seemed cool and varied. Didn't like the 4min rule at all, less fun to spectate, less tactical resting, too much rushing at the end.
Surely a couple of powerful fans blowing at the currently climbed problems would help the conditions??
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Liked the comp especially the girls. Problems seemed cool and varied. Didn't like the 4min rule at all, less fun to spectate, less tactical resting, too much rushing at the end.
Surely a couple of powerful fans blowing at the currently climbed problems would help the conditions??
Wonder if Dyson or another wealthy fan provider fancy sponsoring the series... ;)
All those walls and home woodys requiring adequate cooling - ripe for a mutually beneficial advertising stream.
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Liked the comp especially the girls women.
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:clap2:
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Liked the comp especially the girls women.
I found Miho's new hairdo rather fetching.
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Controversy (and hair cuts) aside - some other thoughts.
Michaela Tracy came 7th! Great stuff.
Akiyo had a shocker, and IMHO didn't look that great last year either
Anna Stoehr had an even bigger shocker
Sierra Blair-Coyle beat Anna, Akiyo, Meagan and Leah Crane
The men are all over the place :)
An interesting observation from my other half which I'll float past you all for your thoughts:
When discussing the men, it tends to be they're regarded (rightly or wrongly) as specialists; Chon is insane at dynamic problems, Rustam has the crimping strength of a monster, Jan's great with pure power etc.
For the women, Pooch aside (and her slabs had improved loads last year), this doesn't happen so much, and they're generally more all-round climbers. It's rare to say "this problem will really suit X". Possibly Shauna on slabs (grit background?) being another exception, though currently all problems seem to suit her.
So is it that:
A) Men specialise to their strengths,
B) Their strengths/weaknesses are more pronounced
C) It's a matter of perception
D) It's a matter of gender bias
E) That would be an ecumenical matter
F) This doesn't exist really
G) Shut up and go climbing?
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My only prediction is that every event will have 6 different men in the finals....although my fantasy ladys' team is doing rather well.
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G) is not looking like a viable option for Easter weeekend over here, sadly.
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I had written a lengthy diatribe about Petra's grin and guns, Miho's lack of Spongebob chalkbag (surely a bigger upset than anything?!), how chirpy the
girls women ladies females generally look and other things that would no doubt have been mis-construed as trivial and sexist or whatever the cool thing to get knickers in a twist about currently is, but then deleted it. I have both a lot of interest and enthusiasm in their climbing in the competitions and a personal appreciation of how charming some of them come across, that's probably horribly wrong.
Durbs, not sure about Shauna being favoured on slabs because she always looks brutally strong too (in this, e.g. W1, and especially in previous years' rounds).
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Agreed - she doesn't really seem to have a weakness...
But more generally, any thoughts on the comparison between the Ruddy Lads and the Dolly Birds?
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I have both a lot of interest and enthusiasm in their climbing in the competitions and a personal appreciation of how charming some of them come across, that's probably horribly wrong.
No, of course it isn't.
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IFSC Official Statement released 20 minutes ago following a virtual Exec Board meeting.
"
It was made a mistake and we apologize for that.
The live streaming for IFSC will remain free of charge, the same as it was at the 1st World Cup in Meiringen, Switzerland and in previous years.
The deal - despite having been announced - has not been signed and thus has not been concluded.
Any possible future variation of this policy will be discussed inside the IFSC and subject to the approval of our key stakeholders.
Let's keep climbing together."
Well done for seeing sense and listening.
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Wow that is quite surprising! I was fairly cynical about the whole thing.
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Good stuff.
Graeme, what's the reasoning behind the new 4 min rule, out of interest?
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To have a max time for finals.
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IFSC Official Statement released 20 minutes ago following a virtual Exec Board meeting.
"
It was made a mistake and we apologize for that.
The live streaming for IFSC will remain free of charge, the same as it was at the 1st World Cup in Meiringen, Switzerland and in previous years.
The deal - despite having been announced - has not been signed and thus has not been concluded.
Any possible future variation of this policy will be discussed inside the IFSC and subject to the approval of our key stakeholders.
Let's keep climbing together."
Well done for seeing sense and listening.
Well bugger me, that was unexpected. I'd love to know exactly what happened start to finish but that may be asking a bit much. :popcorn:
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;D :bounce: :bow: :beer2: :punk:
Thanks guys!!
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To have a max time for finals.
Hmmmmm. The 4+ never seemed to go that far over. 24 mins (+1min x 6 competitors x 4 blocs) would be a likely maximum with 4+, for every problem with some slab rest a climber could add 2 mins onto the time there would be 3 burl problems where they might be adding 20 seconds if that. I don't think it's worth saving that little time overall for the reduced fun watching (although if the climbers like the squashed in rush then it's up to them I guess?)
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Graeme, did Flo's offer or impending deal swing on needing to implement the 4min rule?
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To have a max time for finals.
to ensure that bouldering is superior to tennis?
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I reckon they should have a 5 minute limit but you need to have pulled on for your last attempt by the end of the 4th minute, if that makes sense.
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Just out of idle curiosity, why is it that having to pay to watch the comp has made people so cross? I understand that FloSports pricing is particularly prohibitive and that their service is purportedly crap, but people seemed to get incensed by the very principle of there being any charge at all.
It's a given in many other sports that the footage must be paid for, often through a special subscription service. Why should climbing be any different?
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:badidea:
Just out of idle curiosity, why is it that having to pay to watch the comp has made people so cross? I understand that FloSports pricing is particularly prohibitive and that their service is purportedly crap, but people seemed to get incensed by the very principle of there being any charge at all.
It's a given in many other sports that the footage must be paid for, often through a special subscription service. Why should climbing be any different?
It was too expensive
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I don't get that impression. Reading the comments it looked to me like there were a great many people who thought that having to pay any sum at all constituted a breach of their basic, inalienable human rights.
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I see what you mean, and I - as somebody who is already a climber and already a fan of competition bouldering - would have no problem with reasonably priced pay per view. There's no way I'm taking out an overpriced subscription to a company with a dire reputation, but that's a separate issue.
Some people just don't want to pay for anything, but the more convincing argument that I see is that as of now there is only a tiny, tiny number of people like me or you who might already be willing to pay, and putting it behind a paywall early on basically removes all possibility of that number ever increasing.
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I don't get that impression. Reading the comments it looked to me like there were a great many people who thought that having to pay any sum at all constituted a breach of their basic, inalienable human rights.
The IFSC should really be at the pinnacle of the sport. That should be all encompassing the best climbers, setting, presentation if the stream is to carry a fee.
If you consider the stream from the last round, I was expecting lots of bells and whistles as they attempted to charge to watch, but it was identical to last years, poor commentary, camera angles, direction etc. If you compare it to this years CWIFF stream which I thought was excellent and free, there is no comparison.
I wouldn't mind paying either a couple of quid per event or say a tenner for the season (max)but they first need to address the issues about the stream. If it was good enough people would be willing part with some cash.
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I reckon they should have a 5 minute limit but you need to have pulled on for your last attempt by the end of the 4th minute, if that makes sense.
I had not heard Flo Sports name mentioned when the 4/4+ rule was discussed
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WSL provide a high quality Live Stream of surfing events from around the world that can happen on any day within a given waiting period for FREE.
In my opinion this a brilliant thing and something IFSC should aspire to do because it is a more inclusive approach. The model is there to follow and with climbing events the infrastructure required is much less complicated.
Nothing to do with human rights everything to do with including as many people as possible.
Personally would prefer it if climbing/ climbers did business with more ethical companies but surely the purveyors of 'over caffeinated piss water' (I stole that) or sweat shop made sportswear would mutually benefit from sponsoring such events. Should they not be putting something back in too?
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Moo that's very sensible :yes:
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Happy with this u-turn. IFSC, well done for listening. Why don't IFSC try something like Patreon? I'd be willing to donate a tenner fo sho.
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That is a neat website! I had thought about something like kickstarted or just giving to do the job but that seems much more appropriate.
Most people I would hope wouldn't mind dropping a tenner in the annual IFSC kitty, it's two pints of beer.
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2 pints = £10 :jaw:
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London prices!
You could probably stretch it a bit further at your local :beer2:
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S.manchester prices too if you go to the right/wrong place.
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Under three Euros in the Frankenjura.
(Where I am not - it's pissing down and due to turn to snow tomorrow. Top Easter weekend, off to the wall shortly :furious:)
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Isn't tennis one of the few sports with no actual time limit on a match?
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Isn't tennis one of the few sports with no actual time limit on a match?
And snooker, and that has huge TV ratings.
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So, Chongqing men's qualis.
Ten Japanese men through to the semis if I'm counting correctly.
Nine of the current top 20 not through including Sean McColl, Rustam, Jernej Kruder ...
Interesting to see that "CHN" and "HKG" are separate teams. Plenty of participants from both so clearly no lack of local interest, although nobody qualified from either.
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Megan Mascarenas out too. Doesn't look like the same climber as last season..injuries?
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IFSC are optimistic about streaming semis and finals tomorrow (2:30am and 11am UK time respectively).
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/920-live-streaming-for-chongqing
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Micheala and shauna through, looks like Leached a bit of a nightmare tho
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
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*Leah had* obviously...
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
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Tell me that isn't full sun on the wall!
Also Doug thanks for posting this morning's times. Yesterday I assumed that the finals would also be craZY o'clock - I'm not climbing this weekend due to a cut finger so live IFSC is welcome :thumbsup:
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Women's one, time to step up Janja.
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Exciting stuff so far.
FUCK 4 MINS FLAT SIDEWAYS UP THE ARSE tho.
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I bow to your predictions :thumbsup:
Ha, one down - five to go... And my Male prediction didn't even make semi's
1-1, Janja power.
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If Janja improves (even a little) at reading the boulders (and she attends the events) I think she'll smash Shauna.
Not sure I agree with you. She seemed to lack the raw power required for some of the boulder problems. And whilst she could flex her way through some of them, I don't think she'll be quite up there.
No lack of power today!
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Ha, I stand by my prediction! Anyone fancy a wager on the overall? Shauna vs Janja? Loser buys a CAC t-shirt for the other?
Good comp though - tops & drops, lots of fun. Quality stream too, decent commentary and mostly good camerawork too.
Still not enjoying 4-min cap though :(
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Good comp. Alexey on m4 confirmed that the 4 min cap just doesn't lend itself to an entertaining comp.
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:agree: that had me raging just watching. Could have some great fun teeters on M3 with 4+ too.
Entertaining problems in this one, the balance was maybe slightly off but lots of cool photogenic moves. Enjoyed it, 4. aside, as usual :)
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:agree: that had me raging just watching. Could have some great fun teeters on M3 with 4+ too.
I guess you could argue it was adding excitement as he was effectively racing the clock, but this ain't speed climbing, and climbers seldom rush.
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Also, not sure if it was deliberate or not, but having the men's and women's problems next to each other made it MUCH easier to watch (and film).
No split screen, no need to cut between problems, very little missed action.
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The constant reminders of "this is filmed by volunteers" was interesting, it seemed as though that it was pre-planned that it would be reiterated.
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Third WC of the season this weekend. Hopefully semi's and finals will be live streamed again.
Saturday 29th April
09:30-13:30 (UK time 02:30-06:30) Men Bouldering Qualification
15:00-18:00 (UK time 08:00-11:00) Women Bouldering Qualification
Sunday 30th April
09:30-11:30 (UK time 02:30-04:30) Men and Women Bouldering Semi-Finals
18:30-20:00 (UK time 11:30-13:00) Men and Women Bouldering Finals
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I always wondered how the top women would fair on the men's qualifiers. A few years ago there was a shared problem and only Shauna and Akiyo(?) managed it.
Anyone have any insight into the relative difficulty between men's and women's problems?
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Just watching the semi finals from overnight. The problems look interesting but the camera angles are really poor for most of them (W1 excepted) and the view is flicking between climbers too often so it's very difficult to follow. Exacerbated by the fact that the scoring system is broken so I have no real idea currently what is likely to be required to qualify for the final (admittedly we are only about half way through.) The commentators made the point that the iFSC are using Chinese TV footage rather than their own this weekend. Presumably this is some form of excuse for why it is poor and would be explained by budget issues.
Someone needs to get their act together if they ever want to charge for watching this.
I thought it was ok in Chongqing by the way.
Edit: the commentators also pointed out that they can't help the viewers with the scoring because they don't themselves have an uninterrupted view of the climbing. Wtf!? Sounds like no-one put proper thought in to setting the whole thing up. Hope the final is better.
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Still watching semis, so avoid reading previous comments in case of spoilers, but I just want to opine that Andrzej Mecherzynski is doing an absolutely superb job as co-commentator, quite possibly the best we're ever had. And volunteers doing a superb job as co-commentators is another thing that the commercial deal would presumably have lost.
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Just watching the semi finals from overnight. The problems look interesting but the camera angles are really poor for most of them (W1 excepted) and the view is flicking between climbers too often so it's very difficult to follow. Exacerbated by the fact that the scoring system is broken so I have no real idea currently what is likely to be required to qualify for the final (admittedly we are only about half way through.) The commentators made the point that the iFSC are using Chinese TV footage rather than their own this weekend. Presumably this is some form of excuse for why it is poor and would be explained by budget issues.
Someone needs to get their act together if they ever want to charge for watching this.
I thought it was ok in Chongqing by the way.
Edit: the commentators also pointed out that they can't help the viewers with the scoring because they don't themselves have an uninterrupted view of the climbing. Wtf!? Sounds like no-one put proper thought in to setting the whole thing up. Hope the final is better.
I'd say both the quality of the streaming and camera work has picked up for the final.
Sadly undone with the shambles of the 4 min rule.
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"Any women who've won in more than one discipline?" Janja up next after winning last week. Good lord commentators, sort your brains out. Get Liam Lonsdale in.
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Sadly undone with the shambles of the 4 min rule.
which in itself came undone when the clocks stopped working :no:
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good final, that
I'd have liked to see Janja doing W4, but the camera people had other ideas
a few people were looking pretty tired at the end (understandably)
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Hope Shauna hasn't tweaked a finger on W4, as the commentators implied. This season shaping up to be a Janja-Shauna battle.
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Agree, good final and the camera work was much better.
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Good commentary, I felt sorry for Nonaka not being awarded the match of one of the top holds cos she wasn't on the right bit of the sloper!
Why can't all bouldering wall matting be like that? Rather than the rock hard stuff fitted at most centres these days where sprained ankles seem increasingly common
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Good finals. The two-horse battle has made the women's event the most exciting.
The 4min rule is still terrible. So many failures just because people times out. Not entertaining, just annoying.
Bit of an overkill on close ups, when it would have been much nicer to see the whole climb, or even just the whole climber.
All the men's and women's were side by side, so we could have easily watched two climbers at the same time. Well done to the routesetters if they have decided to do this all the time. Shame the director rarely showed us that view though.
Why can't all bouldering wall matting be like that? Rather than the rock hard stuff fitted at most centres these days where sprained ankles seem increasingly common
Yeah. Hard mats are really annoying.
So are those horrible rough carpets that seem popular these days. Carpet burn on any exposed skin if you happen to skid on your back/front/side when you land.
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Agreed, carpet burn is not a good look. I fell off a board problem the other day from 1 foot up when my hand ripped off a smooth pinch and ended up with a stiff neck from landing flat on my back on the hard mats, not fun!
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Agreed, great final!
Shame for Nonaka, would the top have given her 2nd? Also felt for Aya missing out due to tech failure. Would've thought they could've counted 12 seconds on a video replay is she appealed?
4/3/2/1 split for both which was great.
No takers for my wager?
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Aya wuz robbed. I guess the team probably appealed, the Japanese are generally pretty active on the team management front*
Miho otoh should have known better given that she's a highly experienced competitor and the same thing happened in Chongqing the week before.
* and what a nice bunch they seem to be. Being one of the larger, richer teams they travel with their own physio, or at least they did in 2014 when I saw him in Munich busily massaging & taping up all & sundry without regard to what country they came from.
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No takers for my wager?
Go on then, I'll take that action. A CAC shirt, bright pink - medium ;) Let's hope Janja learns to read boulders and the setters set some hard moves.
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Good commentary, I felt sorry for Nonaka not being awarded the match of one of the top holds cos she wasn't on the right bit of the sloper!
I thought this was very true. Especially as Shauna matched by placing her second hand over her first, which appeared to achieve no skin contact with the finishing hold because it was so small and enveloped. The rules just seem to suggest controlling the finishing hold with two hands without specifying skin contact. Could you match by touching your wrist? Seems a bit dodgy.
Simply saying that the climbers have been told about the finishing hold does not seem to be a good enough response. If there are repeated misunderstandings then the person doing the explaining or the format must take some responsibility.
Twice in two finals suggests a problem.
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good final, that
I'd have liked to see Janja doing W4, but the camera people had other ideas
Never mind, we got a good view of the men's finishing hold instead. Nice to see an old school figure of 4 effectively applied .
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Good commentary, I felt sorry for Nonaka not being awarded the match of one of the top holds cos she wasn't on the right bit of the sloper!
I thought this was very true. Especially as Shauna matched by placing her second hand over her first, which appeared to achieve no skin contact with the finishing hold because it was so small and enveloped. The rules just seem to suggest controlling the finishing hold with two hands without specifying skin contact. Could you match by touching your wrist? Seems a bit dodgy.
Simply saying that the climbers have been told about the finishing hold does not seem to be a good enough response. If there are repeated misunderstandings then the person doing the explaining or the format must take some responsibility.
Twice in two finals suggests a problem.
I think it is a routesetting issue.
The rule allows some flexibility and makes perfect sense in the case of a massive volume with an obvious, matchable hold on top of it.
In both recent episodes i wondered if marking the entire volume as top would have led to some other issue (mainly with taller climbers matching statically on a lower portion of it).
If this is the case, using a small screw on as top is a cheap solution - maybe they had time to find something better, maybe not.
If it is not the case, it is a geeky contrivance ("hey climber, did you pay attention to how us routesetters taped the top?")
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Great final overall. Consistently entertaining problems (nice to have a few multiple methods), good filming, good having adjacent problems, decent commentary. Miho on W1 was a shame (agree some vagueness there that needs to be sorted), Jernej and Shauna simultaneously topping and celebrating P3 was great. Jain Fig4 and Chonwon super smooth on P4 too.
4min wasn't bad this time....it was even worse. This bullshit spoilt otherwise exciting attempts on P1, P2, and P3. If I wanted to watch speed climbing with climbers being hampered by rushing against the clock, I'd watch fucking speed climbing.
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Times for this weekend's WC in Tokyo (based on IFSC website). It looks like the men and women's finals will run separately again, so we should see every problem in full.
Saturday 06th May
10:00-12:50 (UK time 02:00-04:50) Women Qualification
15:30-18:40 (UK time 07:30-10:40) Men Qualification
Sunday 07th May (LIVE)
09:00-11:15 (UK time 01:00-03:15) Men and Women Semi-Finals
14:30-15:50 (UK time 06:30-07:50) Women Finals
15:50-17:10 (UK time 07:50-09:10) Men Finals
IFSC Chief Route Setter: C. Danielson (USA)
IFSC Route Setters: L. Laporte (FRA), G. Hirashima (JPN)
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No takers for my wager?
Go on then, I'll take that action. A CAC shirt, bright pink - medium ;) Let's hope Janja learns to read boulders and the setters set some hard moves.
Strong look. I feel they should do a wolf version.
I look forward to both a Shauna victory, and a lovely new orange t-shirt ;)
You're going down etc. etc. :ras:
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Great final overall. Consistently entertaining problems (nice to have a few multiple methods), good filming, good having adjacent problems, decent commentary. Miho on W1 was a shame (agree some vagueness there that needs to be sorted), Jernej and Shauna simultaneously topping and celebrating P3 was great. Jain Fig4 and Chonwon super smooth on P4 too.
4min wasn't bad this time....it was even worse. This bullshit spoilt otherwise exciting attempts on P1, P2, and P3. If I wanted to watch speed climbing with climbers being hampered by rushing against the clock, I'd watch fucking speed climbing.
Which comp were you watching? Not the one I was at.
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The new time format clearly fixes the issue of slow problem finishes where a climber would be 99% sure to top given enough time, but doesn't fully commit to a partially reversible move.
The ability to commit quickly is emphasized, and things don't get boring.
In all other circumstances i'm not really sure it does anything good.
Maybe a longer countdown (30sec-20-10-5-4-3-2-1) could help to get more last-second tops and less "too late" attemps?
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Graeme: The recent Chinese one with a second Shauna crush. Pretty sure you were there?? Didn't you think it was great overall? Or the problems weren't as entertaining as before?
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Graeme: The recent Chinese one with a second Shauna crush. Pretty sure you were there?? Didn't you think it was great overall? Or the problems weren't as entertaining as before?
Yes I was there. Can you go through each problem and justify why you say it was a disaster? And specifically say why the 4/4+ rule is at fault rather than anything else?
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Graeme, any time a climber is on the problem but has to drop off due to time running out, or fumbles the moves because they are trying to go fast, that's not fun to watch. It happened several times in that comp.
There was already enough time pressure on the athletes with the 4+ rule. it seems a shame to make the clock even more important.
Some have argued that the new rule prevents boring moments where athletes take too long on the problems. Surely it's up to the route setters to control this. The odd occasion where someone finds an ingenious rest can be quite entertaining. I'd rather see people slowly battling up a problem than being forced to drop off.
There was one occasion in this comp where someone managed to scrape up to the top just before the clock ran out. This was a little bit exciting and the commentator tried to use it as justification for the merit of the 4min rule. I wasn't convinced, and I'm clearly not the only one.
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I've always thought the 4+ rule was a great format. It's a rule that seems to have evolved to accommodate the spirit of bouldering, and to celebrate the one-last-go mentality that all climbers can relate to. I think this is also immediately understandable to non climbers. By contrast, imposing the 4min cut off seems very conformist, as though it's some sort of effort to make bouldering fit in with other sports. It's no wonder there is widespread outcry against this step. You don't make something better by taking away something that makes it special.
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Graeme, any time a climber is on the problem but has to drop off due to time running out, or fumbles the moves because they are trying to go fast, that's not fun to watch. It happened several times in that comp.
There was already enough time pressure on the athletes with the 4+ rule. it seems a shame to make the clock even more important.
Some have argued that the new rule prevents boring moments where athletes take too long on the problems. Surely it's up to the route setters to control this. The odd occasion where someone finds an ingenious rest can be quite entertaining. I'd rather see people slowly battling up a problem than being forced to drop off.
There was one occasion in this comp where someone managed to scrape up to the top just before the clock ran out. This was a little bit exciting and the commentator tried to use it as justification for the merit of the 4min rule. I wasn't convinced, and I'm clearly not the only one.
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I've always thought the 4+ rule was a great format. It's a rule that seems to have evolved to accommodate the spirit of bouldering, and to celebrate the one-last-go mentality that all climbers can relate to. I think this is also immediately understandable to non climbers. By contrast, imposing the 4min cut off seems very conformist, as though it's some sort of effort to make bouldering fit in with other sports. It's no wonder there is widespread outcry against this step. You don't make something better by taking away something that makes it special.
+1 - What he said :agree:
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yeeeup
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:agree: well put
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+1
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Can I jump on this bandwagon and say 'well put'?
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Me too, all the moments I remember from past years competitions have been 4+ moments, Rustams last ditch attempt at that ridiculous triple clutch dyno at last years CWIf, Rei Sugimoto at Grindelwald in 2014, Melissa Le Neve every competition ever. The crowd goes wild every time, the stakes are so much higher, now we get so much looking at the clock and walking off with 20 seconds left.
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If they are really worried about timings for TV could it not be a 4min to pull on + 1min to finish the problem (or fall off) format. That way there is still the maximum allotted time for scheduling purposes and it would stop people potentially pulling on and resting off the ground (which could get boring) whilst still allowing for the last ditch effort pulling on just before the 4 minutes that has lead to some of the most intense and interesting action over the last few years?
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What Robin (and everyone else) said.
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Agree totally.
I think if you put it to a vote on the IFSC Facebook page or something you would find almost no-one in favour of it.
It was an experiment, it's not working, drop it?
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If they are really worried about timings for TV could it not be a 4min to pull on + 1min to finish the problem (or fall off) format.
+1
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Graeme: The recent Chinese one with a second Shauna crush. Pretty sure you were there?? Didn't you think it was great overall? Or the problems weren't as entertaining as before?
Yes I was there. Can you go through each problem and justify why you say it was a disaster? And specifically say why the 4/4+ rule is at fault rather than anything else?
Sure. Let me look at the problems I said were a disaster....
If you were referring to me talking about spoilt attempts on some problems (in the context of the rest of the climber's effort on the problem being good, other climbers' efforts on the problems being good, and the overall praise for the competition that I started with which I think is pretty important and stuff like the side-by-side climbing and more knowedgeable commentary is getting universally acclaimed), then IIRC there was a time-out or two or at least a rushed attempt on M1, rushed attempts on W2, and rushed attempts on M3. There may be more. Justification for saying these spoilt attempts: Because it did. It spoilt my viewing of it. Maybe it spoilt the climbers' experience too, I seem to recall some frustrated looks.
For any further justification refer to R-man.
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Imagine how shit snooker would be if you had to plan and execute every shot and the balls come to rest inside a time limit for every shot.
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I feel as though the defenses for the 4 minute only are all devils advocate defenses. r-man did a good job of explaining his reasons against it, but fundamentally I feel like it's just worse.
Graeme, are you playing devils advocate here or do you think 4 minute is better?
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Just saw my first ever qualification (with Japanese commentary). Didn't realise the order is dependent on the placings from the last round. Shauna flashed all 5 problems and Janja and Michaela (👍) flashed 4 and 2 goes on other. Leah 11th, which is impressive especially as she was pretty a late starter (in the comp)
Seeing how much those outside the top 20 struggle with the problems was eye opening! Definitely recommend a quick watch. Normally I only see the semis and finals and you can easily lose perspective on how hard the problems.
I reckon Shauna will win this year, as she has more experience than Janja. Last round Janja burned loads more energy in the semis than Shauna. Shauna seems to know when to hold back and cut her losses on a problem. That's takes experience and confidence. Bet Janja tops more problems overall though this season.
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Disappointing showing by the japanese team, only 8 men through to the semis. :-[
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Seeing how much those outside the top 20 struggle with the problems was eye opening! Definitely recommend a quick watch. Normally I only see the semis and finals and you can easily lose perspective on how hard the problems.
Definitely. I sometimes stop by and watch the tail end of the qualis in Munich on Friday afternoon after work, and it's rare to see anybody looking like they have much of a chance on anything.
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Hate the way the Japanese do the final. All the athletes get slot more air time but the final takes so long
I don't see why Japanese TV think this is a better format
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Hate the way the Japanese do the final. All the athletes get slot more air time but the final takes so long
I don't see why Japanese TV think this is a better format
I entirely disagree. I loved that it was separate. I have no explanation for why, I just like it :)
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Hate the way the Japanese do the final. All the athletes get slot more air time but the final takes so long
I don't see why Japanese TV think this is a better format
I entirely disagree. I loved that it was separate. I have no explanation for why, I just like it :)
Me too, but that's because it's raining and I have hours to wait before the result of the French election.
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We haven't seen that many convincing arguments for the four minute rule yet, but Akiyo on W3 was one of them.
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We haven't seen that many convincing arguments for the four minute rule yet, but Akiyo on W3 was one of them.
What about Tomoa on Men's P1 today. Amazing ninja shit.
Or Jain Kim on Women's P3 last week (she would still be there now trying to match) so an argument against 4+ (controversial but yes many athletes agreed with this sentiment!)
Or Keita (was it Keita?) on Men's P1 last week.
Or Rei on P4 in Meiringen (I really believe that he would have greased off if he hadn't motored to beat the clock).
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Nah I like seeing people climb stuff not racing against an arbitrary speed limit.
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Nah I like seeing people climb stuff not racing against an arbitrary speed limit.
+1
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+2
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I criticised the filming at the last event. This time I thought it was brilliant. Best I've ever seen.
I'd prefer to have both finals simultaneously but if if the filming can be made this much better only by separating them then I think it's definitely worth it.
I agree with what Meuchener said too.
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Hate the way the Japanese do the final. All the athletes get slot more air time but the final takes so long
I don't see why Japanese TV think this is a better format
It does take too long but the footage is much better, especially worth it if you wait until after its finished and just skip all the resting etc.
The overall coverage was really good. They seemed to have mics really close to the wall so you could hear hands slapping on the volumes and feet scraping around, I thought this was a really cool addition.
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Nah I like seeing people climb stuff not racing against an arbitrary speed limit.
+3
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Was the footage not much better as it was japanese TV rather than local/ifsc volunteers, not because of the format? Odd that the stupid 4 min dead rule is being imposed for tv time limits, but its fine to make the finals twice as long...
FWIW, surely side by side setting for the mens and womens probs, coupled with 4+/5 dead would solve all this? fixed max time (2hrs), much shorter than separating the sexes, and also minimizing filming issues and also dead (climber resting) time.
If that's still too long I'd rather see 5 people instead of 6 in the finals than the 4 min dead rule.
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It does take too long but the footage is much better, especially worth it if you wait until after its finished and just skip all the resting etc.
Double tap screen for ten sec skip on youtube is great for this.
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It does take too long but the footage is much better, especially worth it if you wait until after its finished and just skip all the resting etc.
Double tap screen for ten sec skip on youtube is great for this.
You can use the arrow keys too
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Fun finals!
Men's was the better comp this time - slightly gutter for Tamoa not to get the win in front of the home crowd, possibly nerves/excitement getting the better of him there as the problem was surely within his abilities.
Stoked for Alexey though, a well deserved win.
Women's was ok. W1 was obviously a bit too easy which is always a shame, and overall not many attempts required across the board, just seemed a little flat somehow.
Janja was in crush mode, though would've like to see Akiyo get the home-win.
Did I hear Janja say she "might" make Vail?
Can see the appeal of running the comps separately, however the last comps have had the M&W side-by-side so wasn't really an issue most of the time.
Still don't like 4-minute rule. 4+ with a 5-cap seems the best compromise.
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Nah I like seeing people climb stuff not racing against an arbitrary speed limit.
So you don't watch the semi finals :shrug:
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I'm curious Graeme. Do you think 4 minutes is a good idea, and its numerous critics are just stick in the muds opposed to change of any kind, and we will see the light eventually if you keep pointing out that we are mistaken?
Do you feel obliged to defend it regardless of your personal opinion because you are an official of the IFSC?
Or are you just playing devil's advocate?
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Akio on W3 was kind of exciting because of the time limit... but then cliff diving, parkour, ninja warrior and Steve Irwin jamming his tumb up a snake's butt are kind of exciting... it doesn't mean that they should be part of climbing competitions (although parkour obviously already is).
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I'm curious Graeme. Do you think 4 minutes is a good idea, and its numerous critics are just stick in the muds opposed to change of any kind, and we will see the light eventually if you keep pointing out that we are mistaken?
Do you feel obliged to defend it regardless of your personal opinion because you are an official of the IFSC?
Or are you just playing devil's advocate?
Me too. Have yet to see compelling arguments or valid reasons in favour of it.
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Did I hear Janja say she "might" make Vail?
When did she say this! You're making me very nervous here...
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(although parkour obviously already is).
Seeing the ladies attempting to static their way across stupid running traverses admittedly has some amusement value. (Respect to Michaela for once trying to drop down and hand traverse the stupid running traverse. Now that was proper climbing)
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Did I hear Janja say she "might" make Vail?
When did she say this! You're making me very nervous here...
https://youtu.be/1UFdVCf_6os?t=1h34m17s
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I'm curious Graeme. Do you think 4 minutes is a good idea, and its numerous critics are just stick in the muds opposed to change of any kind, and we will see the light eventually if you keep pointing out that we are mistaken?
Do you feel obliged to defend it regardless of your personal opinion because you are an official of the IFSC?
Or are you just playing devil's advocate?
All 3 to some extent.
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Fun finals!
Men's was the better comp this time - slightly gutter for Tamoa not to get the win in front of the home crowd, possibly nerves/excitement getting the better of him there as the problem was surely within his abilities.
Stoked for Alexey though, a well deserved win.
Women's was ok. W1 was obviously a bit too easy which is always a shame, and overall not many attempts required across the board, just seemed a little flat somehow.
Janja was in crush mode, though would've like to see Akiyo get the home-win.
Can see the appeal of running the comps separately, however the last comps have had the M&W side-by-side so wasn't really an issue most of the time.
Still don't like 4-minute rule. 4+ with a 5-cap seems the best compromise.
All of this ^^^ Pretty surprised by Tamoa on M4 after he looked so beastly on the rest. M problems deffo the more exciting.
4 min not so bad this time. Didn't like the split format, a lot of waiting and skipping, especially after the great side-by-sides. Mens commentator bloke was good, good insights.
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Mens commentator bloke was good, good insights.
Ah yes, forgot that bit - thought he was a great commentator. Real depth of knowledge about both the climbers and the climbs. More of him please!
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Mens commentator bloke was good, good insights.
Ah yes, forgot that bit - thought he was a great commentator. Real depth of knowledge about both the climbers and the climbs. More of him please!
Ayo doesn't do all of the events, co-commentators can only co-commentate when they are there!
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Hey Graeme - you might have noticed the odd complaint over 4 min. I just wanted to reiterate that this is in the context of all of us being passionate and enthusiastic about the IFSC seasons and in general very happy with a lot of it - not just the persistent aspect of great boulderers fighting it out on cool problems, but also various improvements like generally better filming and footage, much more knowledgeable commentary, less technical glitches (so far), M+W side-by-side format, etc etc.
We're the audience (and I guess in theory part of the market for advertisers / sponsors?) and the audience is saying :2thumbsup: for the bulk of it, apart from just one aspect. I haven't missed watching one for the last 2 years so big up everyone involved :yes:
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+100
This season's been great - a step up from previous years (live streaming from China!).
Just the 4-minute cap is rubbish ;)
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Could always run a poll? I suspect we are mostly a key demographic?
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I don't mind the 4 min rule. Worked wonders in Tokyo. Even if it looks silly to us when someone race the clock on a boulderproblem I can see its appeal on a general audience tuning in once every 4 years.
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I don't mind it either but this idea just popped into my head: each competitor is allowed a total time for all the problems and a max time for each. Say 15 minutes and five minutes.
Then it's down to time management for the competitor weighing up whether they are likely to do a problem or whether to walk away. Couple of flashes and you've got time to carry over but take the maximum on two problems and the pressure's on.
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
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I like Durb's suggestion ("4+ with a 5-cap seems the best compromise")
Climber needs to be off the floor before 4mins, but then has only 1 minute to complete the problem. If they fall off, then that's it. But max limit also prevents a long rest position being found (i.e. no hands at the start), which is a key issue for the TV coverage/scheduling etc.
That would be a definite improvement on the current 4 min limit
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I don't mind it either but this idea just popped into my head: each competitor is allowed a total time for all the problems and a max time for each. Say 15 minutes and five minutes.
Then it's down to time management for the competitor weighing up whether they are likely to do a problem or whether to walk away. Couple of flashes and you've got time to carry over but take the maximum on two problems and the pressure's on.
Works for chess ...
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I like Durb's suggestion ("4+ with a 5-cap seems the best compromise")
Climber needs to be off the floor before 4mins, but then has only 1 minute to complete the problem. If they fall off, then that's it. But max limit also prevents a long rest position being found (i.e. no hands at the start), which is a key issue for the TV coverage/scheduling etc.
That would be a definite improvement on the current 4 min limit
I can't take credit for it - someone on t'other channel suggested it,
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Not sure if this is the right thread but does anyone know where to get tickets for the lead world cup in Edinburgh? I can't see anywhere on the brilliant IFSC website.
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Quote from: teapot on May 17, 2017, 11:14:10 am
I like Durb's suggestion ("4+ with a 5-cap seems the best compromise")
Climber needs to be off the floor before 4mins, but then has only 1 minute to complete the problem. If they fall off, then that's it. But max limit also prevents a long rest position being found (i.e. no hands at the start), which is a key issue for the TV coverage/scheduling etc.
That would be a definite improvement on the current 4 min limit
I can't take credit for it - someone on t'other channel suggested it,
Isn't just a 5 minute time limit really, so the same as the vilified 4 minute rule, but a bit longer?
The Japan comp made me think the issue isn't so much the 4 minute rule, it is problems not being set that suit the 4 minute rule. The Japan comp felt like most of the problems were climbable quickly once you had worked them out but were still pretty tricky. This made them suitable for the 4 min rule where as ones set in previous comps were less so.
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Not really, as if you fall off at 4:01, you're done, so still has that "one last decent go" vibe of 4+, but without feeling like speed climbing.
Setting does make a difference - but I like tentative, slow balancy problems as much as power fests
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Quote from: teapot on May 17, 2017, 11:14:10 am
I like Durb's suggestion ("4+ with a 5-cap seems the best compromise")
Climber needs to be off the floor before 4mins, but then has only 1 minute to complete the problem. If they fall off, then that's it. But max limit also prevents a long rest position being found (i.e. no hands at the start), which is a key issue for the TV coverage/scheduling etc.
That would be a definite improvement on the current 4 min limit
I can't take credit for it - someone on t'other channel suggested it,
Isn't just a 5 minute time limit really, so the same as the vilified 4 minute rule, but a bit longer?
That is what I thought on first reading it. But it is not the same a 5 minute limit.
The problem at the moment is that the competition loses out on the exciting last attempt (i.e. only 35 seconds remaining so walk off) or they get timed out before the top (which happens fairly often currently). With 4+ this is much less likely as climbers must have left the floor on 3.59, but then assuming they do that still have a decent chance of completing the problem.
The current max 4 rule (or even a 5 minute one) removes the possibility of climbers having one last big go after a decent rest.
I still prefer the no upper limit, but think this 4+ would be a better compromise.
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Imagine how shit snooker would be if you had to plan and execute every shot and the balls come to rest inside a time limit for every shot.
Oh I don't know - it might render watchable frames involving Peter Ebdon.
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I hear Pooch is competing this weekend?
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I hear Pooch is competing this weekend?
:wub:
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Times for this weekend's WC in Vail (based on IFSC website).
Friday 09th June
09:00 (UK time 16:00) Men Qualification
15:00 (UK time 22:00) Women Qualification
Saturday 10th June (LIVE)
10:00 (UK time 17:00) Men and Women Semi-Finals
16:30 (UK time 23:30) Men and Women Finals
Chief Route Setter: Percy Bishton (GBR)
IFSC Route Setters: Manu Hassler (SUI), Chris Danielson (USA)
Pooch is listed as one of the starters here: http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!type=starters&comp=6182
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hope for some more of this
https://youtu.be/s95VjxHUd5k?t=8889
:strongbench:
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Absolutely! Such a beast when she's on form...
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hope for some more of this
https://youtu.be/s95VjxHUd5k?t=8889
:strongbench:
So good!
Also, great camera work (apart from not fully showing the actual power move) - more crane-work!
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https://youtu.be/x8Uz4c4uSb4
Japanese domination of the men's comp is amazing!!!
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9 out of the top 10 men Japanese and only one Japanese male not qualifying for the semi finishing 21st.
Would like to know what they had for breakfast!
Sent from my ZTE A2016 using Tapatalk
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Looking forward to the semi's this PM. Garnbret and The Pooch are looking 💪. Both topping all 5 problems in the qualifiers, where as Coxsey managed a decent 3 tops. She always saves something for the final, but I hope she does not miss the cut as it is a particularly strong field in the womens.
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Nice skullduggery from Shauna on her last problem :2thumbsup:
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Garnbret misses the final! Experience of Coxsey and Puccio to both avoid the low % move on problem 4.
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Great female comp and win from Shauna. Chon proves again he is definitely not just a crimp machine.
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Love how psyched Chon is. As one commentator was speculating that Shauna would struggle on W3 all I could think was "nah". This was a good eg of comp without lots of gimmicky problems, with lots of tops, and with a good, fair split of the field. Enjoyed.
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This was a good eg of comp without lots of gimmicky problems, with lots of tops, and with a good, fair split of the field. Enjoyed.
Jakob Schubert, on FB (https://www.facebook.com/jakobschubert90/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf), disagrees!
"I have to say that in my opinion the setting of our group's Qualifiers wasn't divers at all. 3 out of 5 boulders were slabs and only one boulder was pure fitness on holds, some might say that's the new style of bouldering, but in my opinion it's bad setting. Bouldering shouldn't only be about standing on your feet.. When you are done with Qualification and feel like you haven't even climbed today since no boulders were exhausting at all it just feels wrong to me.
I like to fight in boulders, feel the physical strain. Sure slabby boulders are part of the game but they shouldn't be the most important thing in my opinion. Crimps, slopers, pinches, big moves, campusing, jumps, coordination, toe hooks, heel hooks, power endurance,...there are so many things, that's what I love about this sport.
To be fair, it was difficult for the routesetters because the wall in Vail is not great and they did a very good job in both semis and finals. But still I wanna shout out to all routesetters to try to set more divers in the future in all rounds and espacially also in Qualifiers, I don't think the randomness that some Qualification rounds had, are good for this sport. there shouldn't be only crimpy boulders nor only volume boulders nor only slabby ones.. lately holds have fallen out of favor and huge volumes that look cool have taken over, but a mix of both of them would be the best in my opinion.
The style of a lot of boulders has nothing to do with rockclimbing anymore, that's a fact, whether you think it's good or bad is a matter of opinion. In my opinion some funky boulders are definitely fun, but I don't think we should forget the origins of this sport!"
I'm unclear if his beef is with parkour-style run and jump (some way from the origins of the sport), or slabby routes in general (quite the opposite), or if he's just bitter because he didn't do well.
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mccoll also moaned about there being 3 slabs.
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parkour-style run and jump (some way from the origins of the sport)
This is a myth. Technical jumps have been a recorded part of climbing ever since the earliest days. As have people moaning about them.
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Interesting comments from Jakob. I wonder how competitors would approach a big move to a Jacques Cousteau bolted on to the wall.
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This was a good eg of comp without lots of gimmicky problems, with lots of tops, and with a good, fair split of the field. Enjoyed.
Jakob Schubert, on FB (https://www.facebook.com/jakobschubert90/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf), disagrees!
"I have to say that in my opinion the setting of our group's Qualifiers wasn't divers at all. 3 out of 5 boulders were slabs and only one boulder was pure fitness on holds, some might say that's the new style of bouldering, but in my opinion it's bad setting. Bouldering shouldn't only be about standing on your feet.. When you are done with Qualification and feel like you haven't even climbed today since no boulders were exhausting at all it just feels wrong to me.
I like to fight in boulders, feel the physical strain. Sure slabby boulders are part of the game but they shouldn't be the most important thing in my opinion. Crimps, slopers, pinches, big moves, campusing, jumps, coordination, toe hooks, heel hooks, power endurance,...there are so many things, that's what I love about this sport.
To be fair, it was difficult for the routesetters because the wall in Vail is not great and they did a very good job in both semis and finals. But still I wanna shout out to all routesetters to try to set more divers in the future in all rounds and espacially also in Qualifiers, I don't think the randomness that some Qualification rounds had, are good for this sport. there shouldn't be only crimpy boulders nor only volume boulders nor only slabby ones.. lately holds have fallen out of favor and huge volumes that look cool have taken over, but a mix of both of them would be the best in my opinion.
The style of a lot of boulders has nothing to do with rockclimbing anymore, that's a fact, whether you think it's good or bad is a matter of opinion. In my opinion some funky boulders are definitely fun, but I don't think we should forget the origins of this sport!"
I'm unclear if his beef is with parkour-style run and jump (some way from the origins of the sport), or slabby routes in general (quite the opposite), or if he's just bitter because he didn't do well.
No disagreement; Jacob was talking about the qualifiers. We only saw the semi's and finals, "everyone" agreed they were good.
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This was a good eg of comp without lots of gimmicky problems, with lots of tops, and with a good, fair split of the field. Enjoyed.
Jakob Schubert, on FB (https://www.facebook.com/jakobschubert90/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf), disagrees!
"I have to say that in my opinion the setting of our group's Qualifiers wasn't divers at all. 3 out of 5 boulders were slabs and only one boulder was pure fitness on holds, some might say that's the new style of bouldering, but in my opinion it's bad setting. Bouldering shouldn't only be about standing on your feet.. When you are done with Qualification and feel like you haven't even climbed today since no boulders were exhausting at all it just feels wrong to me.
I like to fight in boulders, feel the physical strain. Sure slabby boulders are part of the game but they shouldn't be the most important thing in my opinion. Crimps, slopers, pinches, big moves, campusing, jumps, coordination, toe hooks, heel hooks, power endurance,...there are so many things, that's what I love about this sport.
To be fair, it was difficult for the routesetters because the wall in Vail is not great and they did a very good job in both semis and finals. But still I wanna shout out to all routesetters to try to set more divers in the future in all rounds and espacially also in Qualifiers, I don't think the randomness that some Qualification rounds had, are good for this sport. there shouldn't be only crimpy boulders nor only volume boulders nor only slabby ones.. lately holds have fallen out of favor and huge volumes that look cool have taken over, but a mix of both of them would be the best in my opinion.
The style of a lot of boulders has nothing to do with rockclimbing anymore, that's a fact, whether you think it's good or bad is a matter of opinion. In my opinion some funky boulders are definitely fun, but I don't think we should forget the origins of this sport!"
I'm unclear if his beef is with parkour-style run and jump (some way from the origins of the sport), or slabby routes in general (quite the opposite), or if he's just bitter because he didn't do well.
Jakob and Sean are talking about the quals, others are talking about semi finals and finals as that is what they saw on the stream.
Edit: should have read all replies before posting!
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parkour-style run and jump (some way from the origins of the sport)
This is a myth. Technical jumps have been a recorded part of climbing ever since the earliest days. As have people moaning about them.
Yep, you were at Andy Popp's stag do at Ravensheugh :agree:
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Navi Mumbai penultimate Worldcup this weekend.
According to my calculations the semi-final kicks off at 5.30am on Sunday, then the final is 2.30pm
According to a press briefing Shauna only needs to place 9th or higher to win again overall - which is coincidentally where she placed last year in Mumbai.
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Hope she doesn't struggle too much in the heat, seems to be her weakeness.
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Hope she doesn't struggle too much in the heat, seems to be her weakeness.
Garnbret is apparently not there which is a shame, but definitely takes the pressure off.
Personally I would like the podium positions still to be up for grabs in the final, but I am sure Shauna will cope with the heat fine and come away with another title.
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Since bouldering is the only event I'm interested in as a spectator, I agree it would be more interesting to see a close contest between Shauna and Janja down to the last event.
Janja apparently has other priorities though - she's entered for both lead and speed in the European Championship in Italy next weekend. Tokyo 2020 preparation, presumably. She's world class in bouldering and lead, so she only has to become vaguely respectable at speed to be an obvious gold medal contender.
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it'd be nice to see Michaela in the final
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Agreed
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Great final, though a shame to move away from the side-by-side approach (or at least split-screen) as missed a few bits.
Alexey seems to be constantly in the "nearly won" pile, gutted for him on M2.
Same for Pooch, would've loved her to win, and not topping F2 was a bit of a shame having smashed F1 out the park.
Good problems, I liked the range of styles on offer.
Shame Janja isn't coming to Mumbai. Aside from the fact it's a rather damp squib to the end of the season, is it a bit "meh" in terms of attitude? The only person with a good shout to beat Shauna, and doesn't compete.
Did we know she wasn't going to Mumbai before Vail?
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Shame Janja isn't coming to Mumbai. Aside from the fact it's a rather damp squib to the end of the season, is it a bit "meh" in terms of attitude?
As discussed above, it looks to me as if Tokyo 2020 is her focus and not Boulder World Cup 2017. Having a different priority isn't necessarily a "meh" attitude, even if it does make the 2017 season a bit of an anticlimax for us in the Shauna-focused British public.
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Yeah, probably fair.
Just a bit irritating when we could have such a close comp, but people don't enter all the rounds.
See also Pooch!
Just harking back to the 2013 (?) season when the women had the Super-6; Anna, Shauna, Alex, Julia, Mel & Akiyo who pretty much made every final and the season was amazing to watch.
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Watching replay the now with UKC having already spoiled it with their Shauna podium pic. Already massive hype for Chon on M2!
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Watching replay the now with UKC having already spoiled it with their Shauna podium pic. Already massive hype for Chon on M2!
You what?
Isn't it just the qualifications today?- Shauna qualified in first (4 flashes) for semis. Michaela and Leah also in semis.
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Sorry man, last weeks' one. Well behind the times. Comes from visiting my old man who has a broadband connection that is actually WORSE than an old 56k modem!!
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:clap2: Sort of mistake I would make. At least you get to watch the final tomorrow and even the semis if you are up early.
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If you don't want spoilers for tomorrow's semi finals then don't go via IFSC to watch the replays, go direct to the Youtube IFSC Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ifscchannel :-)
Judging by the results and the various videos on-line, Shauna looked to have had a fairly easy qualification. Hope it goes well tomorrow.
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YouTube live streaming of finals seems to be starting at 12.45, rather than 14.30 I posted a few days back.
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Whoop! Shauna wins the season, by qualifying for finals, guaranteeing at least 6th place!
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https://youtu.be/FG8LzXXB8r0
Link to YouTube streaming - kicks off in 5 mins
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Whoop! Shauna wins the season, by qualifying for finals, guaranteeing at least 6th place!
Whoop! Shauna wins the season by totally dominating in Mumbai :great:
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Impressive work by Shauna. Particularly respect how focused she was in the final, given she had already bagged the title. The 4 minute limit was pushed to the absolute max on the last problem by both Chon and Shauna.
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That last try on the last problem by the last competitors, at the same time. You could not make that up! Cracking comp
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Fucking hell, that finish!!
Good contest, problems weren't as varied as usual but there were some great moments.
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Great for Shauna, and good finishes for Leah and Michaela too.
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Fucking hell, that finish!!
Good contest, problems weren't as varied as usual but there were some great moments.
All looked like a set up to promote the new 4 min rule to me ;)
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Plenty of times where that sucked as usual TBH, despite Charlie Boscoe being forced to sing it's praises at one point when I was thinking the exact opposite. As for the end, again it was detrimental as Shauna's top was a matter of "will they judge it" rather than "can she do it". But it's still good despite that so hey ho....
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Plenty of times where that sucked as usual TBH, despite Charlie Boscoe being forced to sing it's praises at one point when I was thinking the exact opposite. As for the end, again it was detrimental as Shauna's top was a matter of "will they judge it" rather than "can she do it". But it's still good despite that so hey ho....
:agree:
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No takers for my wager?
Go on then, I'll take that action. A CAC shirt, bright pink - medium ;) Let's hope Janja learns to read boulders and the setters set some hard moves.
:whistle:
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Anyone going to nail some predictions to the mast?
Men: Chon
Women: Coxsey
1 down, 1 to go :)
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Are we allowed to discuss Lead in here??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjOL83RGvDk&feature=youtu.be
M was pretty good at the finish. F route looked really cool and the finish was ace (Mina's face getting into that section and Janja's teeter!).
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I have a very soft spot for Romain Desgranges, no one has done more to deserve a victory. He must be close to half of the combined age of the podium in Villars.
Very exciting to watch Jan Hojer trying to beat the pump clock as well!
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No takers for my wager?
Go on then, I'll take that action. A CAC shirt, bright pink - medium ;) Let's hope Janja learns to read boulders and the setters set some hard moves.
:whistle:
You're not forgotten!! PM me; you shall have your reward :)
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Very exciting to watch Jan Hojer trying to beat the pump clock as well!
Same here - delighted to see someone over 6ft and 80kg in amongst the little people. Although by the look of him, he might be under 80kg now...
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Do non of the brits do the world cups in lead climbing? Not a single one on the start list.
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Janja wadding about in Chamonix. Love the fact that the only song she ever climbs to now is EMF - You're unbelievable.
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Oops, who left that jug at the bottom of the headwall in the men's final?
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Too many tops!
Marcelo Bombardi climbed well in both semi's and finals, (old but) fresh face to the finals scene.
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The Japanese fella was awesome holding the cut loose, that was the highlight for me of the men's final.
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Do non of the brits do the world cups in lead climbing? Not a single one on the start list.
I will pay your travel costs to Briancon Gav if you want to go :lol:
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World Games takes place today, men's final finished, women's starts at 6pm (I think). Not sure where replays are - it's on the Olympic Channel.
The commentator sounds like Johnny from Horizon
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Just watched the Briancon replay. Props to Sean McColl for transforming himself into Gary Oldman from the 5th Element.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2c/4c/25/2c4c259c3b58801be7203e5ec2fd7b65.jpg)
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Fourteen years of progression: Desgrange's placement over the last one hundred comps(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170803/d9691c2a11845b3153d3adf43a53c898.jpg)
[edit] I stole this from Arnaques, Grimpe et Polémiques (https://www.facebook.com/argrimpol/)[/edit]
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So my good buddy and all round hero Mikey Cleverdon got a silver medal at his first IFSC World Cup Event in Briancon. 6 seconds off gold. Great effort.
Great front page coverage of the teams efforts on UKC for a couple of days.
However, is it just me or is anyone else disappointed by the lack of coverage elsewhere and the lack of information on the IFSC web page. Here's a few things I would like to see.
1) A live stream of the paraclimbing events.
2) Paraclimbing athlete profiles on the web page alongside the fizzotypicals.
3) World Cup rankings for paraclimbing on the front page.
From my perspective it feels like the paraclimbers are being treated as an add on and not as equals. I would love to see coverage of paraclimbing on a level pegging. An opportunity to put climbing at the forefront of inclusive sports?
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I think the paraclimbing is far more inspirational/interesting than regular lead comps. The different methods used to attack routes by the different athletes makes it much more interesting to me...
Well flagged up BtB.
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If they believe it will not draw in as many viewers then they aren't going to invest the same amount of time/money. Bad obviously, but that's just how it works.
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Isn't para-everything treated as an add on and not treated equal? Maybe it's because I'm a dick, and I'm sure I'll take flak for it, but I have minimal interest in watching para climbing. ..
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So my good buddy and all round hero Mikey Cleverdon got a silver medal at his first IFSC World Cup Event in Briancon. 6 seconds off gold. Great effort.
Great front page coverage of the teams efforts on UKC for a couple of days.
However, is it just me or is anyone else disappointed by the lack of coverage elsewhere and the lack of information on the IFSC web page. Here's a few things I would like to see.
1) A live stream of the paraclimbing events.
2) Paraclimbing athlete profiles on the web page alongside the fizzotypicals.
3) World Cup rankings for paraclimbing on the front page.
From my perspective it feels like the paraclimbers are being treated as an add on and not as equals. I would love to see coverage of paraclimbing on a level pegging. An opportunity to put climbing at the forefront of inclusive sports?
The Paraclimbing events aren't actually World Cups, they do not have to conform to a Event Organisers Handbook standards. they are all stand alone events and there is no overall ranking.
When Paraclimbing is a 'real' World event ie the Paraclimbing World Championships, it is totally integrated with the World Championships and is webcast by the IFSC webcast team.
Webcasting at World Cups is pretty expensive and is funded by the fees that organisers pay the IFSC, these fees are not charged for Paraclimbing Cups. If an organiser wanted to webcast an event I am sure the IFSC could help promote it.
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Isn't para-everything treated as an add on and not treated equal? Maybe it's because I'm a dick, and I'm sure I'll take flak for it, but I have minimal interest in watching para climbing. ..
As just said, Paraclimbing is totally integrated into the World Championships and has provided some of the most memorable moments of my watching comps, and I have seen a few comps. However I concede that maybe 'you have to be there' to appreciate the atmosphere - the French blind climber in Paris 2012 where you could hear a pin drop and then 9000 people erupted after he fell near the top of the route.
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Isn't para-everything treated as an add on and not treated equal? Maybe it's because I'm a dick, and I'm sure I'll take flak for it, but I have minimal interest in watching para climbing. ..
It's stunning to watch sometimes. Matt Phillips is amazing.
I don't think you deserve flak for not wanting to watch it though. Like most Para events, the number of categories make it a difficult proposition to cover and a marathon to try and watch in it's entirety.
And that alone probably answers for why it receives less attention and coverage.
The Bloc Hobbit is an inspiration though; imagine reaching deep into the 8th grade after a stroke like that!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This is amazing. All the more so when you consider than standards have exploded around him over the past decade or so. being 10th 10 years ago =/= being 10th today.
Fourteen years of progression: Desgrange's placement over the last one hundred comps(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170803/d9691c2a11845b3153d3adf43a53c898.jpg)
[edit] I stole this from Arnaques, Grimpe et Polémiques (https://www.facebook.com/argrimpol/)[/edit]
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“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” And not getting injured I suppose...
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What's going to happen when his progress continues though??!
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Minus numbers. Like, duh.
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Exponential decay model.
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Log pile :whistle:
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Michaela is in 2nd, ahead of Shauna with most of the likely contenders finished. She does seem to like Munich. Nathan Philips through too.
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I was hoping to make it at least to the semis tomorrow, but my flight back from .uk family holiday was just cancelled >:(
Reason for the cancellation is apparently huge thunderstorms over there. The weather before summer thunderstorms so near the Alps is crushingly hot & sticky, and Shauna is famously not at her best in those conditions
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No one is at their best in those conditions
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Hannah Slaney through too, her first semis?
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Michaela is in 2nd, ahead of Shauna with most of the likely contenders finished. She does seem to like Munich. Nathan Philips through too.
Hannah Slaney through too, her first semis?
shame Leah didn't quite make the top 20
good luck strong British people!
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Perhaps it's just people being people, but is there some beef between Michaela and the other British ladies?
Michaela qualifies second, but no congrats on social media from Shauna/Leah who did instead mention Hannah...
Just curious!
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Stream broke for others right now?
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it is cabbaged.
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Very broke
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Perhaps it's just people being people, but is there some beef between Michaela and the other British ladies?
Michaela qualifies second, but no congrats on social media from Shauna/Leah who did instead mention Hannah...
Just curious!
I'd hope it's just cos it was Hannah's first semifinal
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Stream broke for others right now?
Too late now but if the stream breaks try the Olympic Channel (accessed by clicking the link on IFSC homepage where it says 'click here if you can't access youtube'). I had to swap 3 or 4 times between them but one was always working.
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Watched the LIVE feed after the event over the last two nights and thought it was a good comp overall.
Jan Hojer crushing M1 with seconds to spare and Stasa sending the tricky slab were highlights :2thumbsup:
Missing footage of Jan Hojer flashing M2 and Stasa's epic fail on W2 (I may have some of the problem numbers wrong) were low lights :spank:
Edit; just watched the REPLAY and all footage is there..
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Well deserved win for Jan Hojer. The stream had a fairly knowledgeable pundit, some dude called Alex, I think.
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Well deserved win for Jan Hojer. The stream had a fairly knowledgeable pundit, some dude called Alex, I think.
I thought she was called Anna :P
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Skipped past the women's final. Not enough Japanese to keep my interest up
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At least Anna knows what she's talking about with regard to competing in world cup finals. Unlike jwi's punter :P
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Ondra, Megos and Ashima all on the start list for the Lead Cup in Arco this Friday.
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Question for those who know:
On separate, taped starting holds, what part of what limbs have to be on or touching the holds?? Are you allowed to have the bulk of a hand sharing a single tagged hold with another hand, but with some part of the hand touching another requisite tagged hold? (or arm or whatever).
I did a problem at Eden Rock yesterday (Blue #2 just left of cave) starting off two small touching triangular volumes, and found the only way I could pull on was with one hand fully cupping the left volume, and my other squeezing the join of both volumes at the top (fingers also on the left volume, palm (and a lot of forearm) on the right hand volume), and wondered if this was legit??
If it is hands and they have to be kept separate for separate tagged holds, are you allowed to use the rest of the arm to "match" a single tagged hold?
Yours curiously,
Fiend
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Molly Thompson-Smith in the final at Arco.
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Finals setting looked a bit odd.
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Finals setting looked a bit odd.
The six minutes rule did clearly not work.
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Finals setting looked a bit odd.
The six minutes rule did clearly not work.
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Or alternatively, the 6 minute rule does not work at a venue that is approx 20m high and was built when comps had 12+ minute time limits.
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And therefore comps should be limited to little stunted venues in order to make a damaging and unpopular rule change look ok?
Seems to be an implication of what you are saying.
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Yo Graeme any verdict on my rules query? I did read the IFSC rulesheet but couldn't find it?
Also, a nice interview with Janja here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item/71243/janja_garnbret , she sounds very cool and on the ball.
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Definitely didn't like the 6 minute rule. It basically meant more competitors squeezed into a "shorter" area of holds (if that makes sense), and less exciting to see where people got to, i.e. missing out on potentially cool climbing higher up. Jain certainly looked like she could keep going - getting timed off the wall is not an entertaining way to finish. I thought the setting was quite cool tho, some good moves especially on the womens.
Commentary and guest commentators have been top-notch.
For the Bouldering, Womens at Munich had some great moments. Sasha coming out of nowhere on the slab, and Janja's balletic finish on the bridging one. Mens had some entertaining problems except the Jan lankfest on 2.
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I imagine the introduction of the 6min rule was purely driven by people trying to make the sport more media friendly. Well congratulations for ruining it in the process. One of the reasons why I didn't jump for joy when climbing got into the Olympics, the other being the combined clown show.
Seeing people like Jain Kim and Ondra finding ingenious rests in the Arco comp is part of the attraction for me.
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Yo Graeme any verdict on my rules query? I did read the IFSC rulesheet but couldn't find it?
I'm not an IFSC setter so not sure on the WC rules, but at Eden Rock the way you describe is fine. The most usual place you find that is when you set a screw on pinch on an arete with two screw ons; we'll tag one of them but you're allowed to touch both at the same time. The way you started the blue problem is valid, well done :-)
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I watched some of the combined comp yesterday and thought it was great. Totally worked and you end up with the best allround climber winning
As long as the entry criteria for the olympics is based on the best combined event climbers rather than being selected from the best individuals from each of the disciplines like was originally assumed it will be great.
A bit like the decathlon I guess.
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^I agree. Watched the junior's combined. Was entertained.
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Ratho IFSC this weekend HYPE! If it's damp I will be glued to it live on Sunday.
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Excellent competition. When Romain Desgranges falls off and doesn't even scream & kick the wall... you know that the route is pretty desperate! Also: the six minute rule doesn't work for the women
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So the last Lead WC of the year concludes today. And Shauna and Molly are in the final. Come on!
(It starts at 4pm and if the stream doesn't work you can always try www.olympicchannel.com )
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Not IFSC, but Legends Only is being streamed tomorrow;
http://lasportivalegendsonly.com/