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news / Re: The inevitable E grade thread

« Last post by jwi on Today at 03:26:57 pm »

Quote from: Johnny Brown on Today at 11:00:29 am

Whereas Uk climbers abroad inevitably return convinced of it's superiority (I'm not talking about E7+ here), but also when the hardest routes are done outside the Uk, a uk trad grade is often offered. But as illustrated by this thread, I think there are issues getting to grips with it, particularly if you are an experienced climber who already understands other grades. ...

But this is only natural, non? Despite climbing routes with French grades on 95% of the time, when I do a traditionally protected multipitch route on the continent together with someone from Sweden/Norway I will inevitably talk about the pitches in terms of Scandi grades. Like "you really think that pitch was 8-? That seems a bit generous, no?" "Yeah, I found it more like 7+" etc... even if there is no limestone in Scandinavia. And if someone from scandinavia ask me about the routes I would tell them what I think the Scandi grade is, if it is trad.

British grades seems perfectly reasonable for the pitches I've been told the grades for. I have a pretty good idea what kind of grades I can get up with little effort vs huge effort vs not at all.

news / Re: The inevitable E grade thread

« Last post by Johnny Brown on Today at 03:21:13 pm »

Thinking about this a bit more, I think my chief attachment to Uk grades vs other systems is that they reflect messy reality - trad climbs vary widely in many aspects and will resist being pigeonholed into any sensible order of difficulty.

music, art and culture / Re: RIP

« Last post by GraemeA on Today at 03:07:35 pm »

Just been told that Adam Pepper has passed away. I don't know any details but someone has posted something on Adam's FB page (https://www.facebook.com/adam.pepper.94).

Condolences to his family especially Ben and Joe

conditions reports (isitgreasy on twitter) / Re: Forest rock

« Last post by Bradders on Today at 02:58:55 pm »

What's the situation with Lucid Interval following the hold breakage?

news / Re: The inevitable E grade thread

« Last post by Johnny Brown on Today at 02:33:59 pm »

I can't speak for Jase but was never really steeped in British climbing culture. I am very attached to the British landscape, but not so much the population or culture. When I moved to Sheffield I found the scene pretty uninspiring tbh, was never a Ben and Jerry fanboi either.

What I am very attached to is the idea that trad climbing is, at it's core, about self-reliance and freedom. By this I mean the rock is left for others to choose their own adventure on, not 'made' into climbs. I'm not sure this is even an accepted British thing, it seemed to be implicit when I was a youth, but not so much any more. I took my son up the east face of Tryfan for the first time this weekend and, despite its long history of being climbed on, we didn't see a single piece of fixed gear of any kind. Almost anywhere else I've been climbing in the world that wouldn't have been the case. I hosted lots of foreign climbers on International meets in the noughties and despite being accomplished climbers, they were often surprised that many routes had no fixed gear at all. They were always impressed by this, and on more than one occasion remarked that 'every ascent is like a first ascent'. I think this is worth preserving on its own merits, not special because its British. Even in Britain it now seems to be a constant battle against a majority view that trad climbs are where you don't put all the bolts in so that punter tradsters can indulge themselves in placing cams.

E grades, honestly, are a more head than heart thing for me. I think they work fine and it annoys me when people say they don't. But mainly that's because, like the YDS example above, I've always measured trad grades to trad routes, whereas I've done next to no easy sport climbing so have no reference.

get involved: access, environment, BMC / Re: BMC Resolutions shout out 📣

« Last post by Offwidth on Today at 02:14:08 pm »

I can assure you it doesn't feel that way from the view of many key volunteers and especially not so for staff. If people are serious about leaving just as the finances and GB climbing are being sorted out, it's certainly going to impact those BMC stalwarts even more (and as for those who were involved with mismanagement but have now left the BMC: it will have no impact at all).

BMC leadership are custodians for what's important: the BMC work outside of governance.

It's not all been bad: there are more access staff FTEs now than pre covid.

news / Re: The inevitable E grade thread

« Last post by spidermonkey09 on Today at 01:54:59 pm »

I can see where Pete is coming from. I think Northern yob and JB might feel a particularly strong identification with being a "British trad climber," steeped in the culture, history and yes, the grading system of it. They grew up, if I'm guesstimating their ages correctly, in the glory days of British trad and when British climbers were expanding the sport overseas, the era of hard grit, Ben and Jerry, the idea that British climbing and particularly grit is somehow special. I can see how one might, consciously or subconsciously, kick a bit against the perception that the grading system, which embodies the uniqueness of the British climbing scene, was being homogenised in some way. We saw something similar a month or so back when Ted K was concerned about Rockfax ceasing to use tech grades in their guides (turned out to be not true.)

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