UKBouldering.com

the shizzle => news => Topic started by: andy popp on January 18, 2015, 04:24:21 pm

Title: The Process?
Post by: andy popp on January 18, 2015, 04:24:21 pm: The other channel is reporting that Daniel Woods has completed the well-known project on the Grandpa Peabody boulder in the Buttermilks. Reputely 8B into 8B+ into 7C+ = 8C+?
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: JMB on January 18, 2015, 04:36:09 pm: Some good information and photos on Deadpoint Magazine's page:

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/daniel-woods-sends-bishop-mega-project-v16 (http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/daniel-woods-sends-bishop-mega-project-v16)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 18, 2015, 05:12:01 pm: Be interesting to see if he sticks his neck out and gives it 8C+.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Sloper on January 18, 2015, 05:45:00 pm: Given the exposure of the Dawn Wall recently i wonder if this is going to get a feature on R4, The Guardian etc, I'd love it to be in the mail so that the chorus of morons can get a good trill.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Jaspersharpe on January 18, 2015, 09:17:00 pm: Sasq mentioned this didn't he? The local guy working it when he was there and that it was ridiculous.

8B into 8B+ into highball 7C+, however wide you want 8C to be surely that has to be harder?

What did someone say about bouldering reaching a limit? The possibilities are endless.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Stubbs on January 18, 2015, 09:25:24 pm: Yeah Daniel Beall, some great shots of it on his IG http://instagram.com/daniel_beall/ (http://instagram.com/daniel_beall/)

Maybe there is something in this Team of Two press ups until you puke style training regime after all!

Totally stunning collection of climbs on Grandpa now: Evilution, Ambrosia, Lucid Dreaming and now this!
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Jaspersharpe on January 18, 2015, 10:23:16 pm: Decent little circuit yeah.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Sasquatch on January 19, 2015, 08:16:46 am: Quote from: Jaspersharpe on January 18, 2015, 09:17:00 pm
Sasq mentioned this didn't he? The local guy working it when he was there and that it was ridiculous.

Quote from: Stubbs on January 18, 2015, 09:25:24 pm
Yeah Daniel Beall, some great shots of it on his IG http://instagram.com/daniel_beall/ (http://instagram.com/daniel_beall/)

Yeah Dan Beall was so close and has been working this line for the last 3 years.

Was really amazing watching him work it.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Wood FT on January 19, 2015, 01:51:27 pm: sounds like an amazing piece of climbing, look forward to seeing it. The description reads more like a futuristic sport route than a boulder problem.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: standard on January 19, 2015, 03:21:43 pm: was only a matter of time.
in exposure II, he cruises to the lip (8B into 8B+ I assume) a few times, but bottles the 7C+ top out and jumps off.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: r-man on January 19, 2015, 03:38:34 pm: Question - does the 7C+ make any difference to the grade?

Or to swap the numbers for more comprehensible equivalents... If I climb a 7B into a 7B+ would a 6C+ top out make any difference?
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 19, 2015, 03:51:52 pm: Maybe if it's a one move 6C+!
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: bendavison on January 19, 2015, 04:00:54 pm: :shrug: A lot of people fall off the end of Ben's roof...
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Bonjoy on January 19, 2015, 04:18:50 pm: Quote from: r-man on January 19, 2015, 03:38:34 pm
Question - does the 7C+ make any difference to the grade?

Or to swap the numbers for more comprehensible equivalents... If I climb a 7B into a 7B+ would a 6C+ top out make any difference?
Depends on a lot of factors. Taking your scaled down example the 6C+ bit could even be the 'redpoint' crux depending on the type of moves and how it stacked on the other parts.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: andy_e on January 19, 2015, 04:21:07 pm: I reckon a 7C+ dyno after 8B into 8B+ could be a bit of a heartbreaker.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: PipeSmoke on January 19, 2015, 04:43:59 pm: I guess fatigue & the height make the 7C+ move/s feel harder than it should? Would certainly be daunting after battling your way past the lower harder sections.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: bendavison on January 19, 2015, 04:54:23 pm: 8B into 8B+ must be pretty tough on its own! Any other problems with this breakdown? Bugeleisen (sp?) sit? TSOTW?
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 19, 2015, 04:56:36 pm: Isn't the Dagger regarded as 8B now? I reckon 8B into 8B+ must be enough to power out most people, so yes a 7C+ after would probably a difference .
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 19, 2015, 05:01:36 pm: Isn't Gioia 8B+ into 8B (or is it 8A+). Of course whether the 8B+ section is first or second will make a big difference .
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: gme on January 19, 2015, 05:09:26 pm: Dream time is supposed to be two 8A+s on top of each other is it not = 8B+ or 8C and TSOTWs is 8A+ into 8B = 8B+ so i cant see how this cant be given 8C+.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Ru on January 19, 2015, 05:29:52 pm: This is amazing. I wouldn't be surprised if DW shies away from V16, or it settles to a lower grade after repeats. As a reference point, when DG graded TSOTW top end 8C he thought the two sections were both 8B+. Be good if he does give it v16 and it sticks.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 19, 2015, 06:36:00 pm: He might still be reluctant to give something 8C+ after The Game was downgraded. Hypnotised Minds sounds like a contender too.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: gme on January 19, 2015, 06:43:20 pm: I wonder why bouldering plays the keep the grades tough game and is happy to downgrade whilst it doesn't happen with routes.
New bouldering areas that were initially overgraded have been moved down in line with the more historical areas such as America and font where as all the routes are now being graded in line with the newer areas that were overgraded years ago such as Spain.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 19, 2015, 06:54:51 pm: I think people want more bang for their buck after climbing 50 metres!
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: remus on January 19, 2015, 09:38:16 pm: Might just be that theres only two people operating at the top of the route climbing game, and one of them doesn't grade anything.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Nemo on January 19, 2015, 09:41:23 pm: I remember looking (from the ground!) at this line donkeys years ago – looks well good.

Quote
"What did someone say about bouldering reaching a limit?” - JasperSharpe
I'm guessing you're referring to me, although that isn’t quite what I said… The limit is still clearly very far away in terms of physical ability. What I've said is that there are (IMO) only a small number of high quality 9th grade boulder problems out there to be climbed – and so the future of bouldering is much more constrained by geology than the future of sport climbing.

Quote
“The possibilities are endless" - JasperSharpe
In terms of lowballs, traverses and crappy eliminates I agree. But are you going to find large numbers of high quality 9th grade boulder problems even in a hundred years? I very much doubt it, unless someone finds some completely new venue which is very different to anything yet climbed on.

There are a lot of boulders in the world – but sadly almost all of them don’t come in 9th grade shapes. The steep crimpy stuff you find in the US and elsewhere has limits - as the holds get really small they also tend to snap. On the more vertical, slopey conditions dependent stuff (Grit and Font), there are plenty of blank unclimbed walls. Unfortunately they tend to be of the type which will be either completely impossible or will be 8A dynos for 7ft tall people and impossible for everyone else. The majority (of the very small number) of decent quality 9th grade problems will most likely be found on steep granite or limestone.

And there certainly will be some... What Daniel has just done was a very well known project and there are certainly some others. Apparently there’s two possibles on one boulder in Squamish - the sit to The Singularity and the thing to its left. Then there’s the “Even Bigger Island” in Font There’s Nalle's ridiculous looking thing in Finland (which out of everything found so far, seems most likely to be both doable and a completely different level to anything yet done). Out of the currently known venues, the most potential is probably still in Switzerland although places like Penoles might end up with quite a bit.

But IMO the number of good problems which are genuinely a step up from anything yet seen really is very, very limited, unless you're talking about long traverses, link ups in caves or crappy lowball eliminates. You're not going to turn up in Cuvier in 100 years and find a load of 9A's, because they aren't there to be climbed.

Having said that I’d love to be wrong - there’s always the possibility that somewhere in Outer Mongolia (or more likely, high in the Himalayas), someone comes across a pile of perfect, smooth but slightly featured granite boulders, in an area with reasonably cold weather. But there’s an awful lot of hard boulderers out there doing an awful lot of travelling and developing of new areas. And what they’re finding is generally more of the same. Ie: Lots of stuff up to 8B, quite a few 8B+’s, the odd 8C… But without doing epic traverses or going in circles, that’s about it. You can argue that that’s because of the level they’re climbing at, but I don’t agree – they could spot future potential if it was there - unfortunately with very few exceptions, it just isn’t. (Whereas with sport climbing – Ondra bolted a few high quality probable 10as within no time of being there at the Red River Gorge – and in Spain and various other places the potential really is endless).

That said, there’s still plenty of bouldering development to be done in the next decade or so – but IMO the top end is not going to keep pace with the top end in sport climbing (unless Ondra gets injured) – at least in terms of good quality problems.

Quote
"I wonder why bouldering plays the keep the grades tough game and is happy to downgrade whilst it doesn't happen with routes." - GME
1. Beta improvements happen when people get round to repeating things - makes a huge difference to the difficulty in bouldering. Typically on routes the difference made by beta is much much smaller. This is exacerbated by the fact that there are a large group of boulderers operating very close to the top level so good problems tend to get lots of attention and beta improvements. Whereas as remus has just said, if Ondra cocked up the sequence on Change and it's actually a 9a (not likely obviously), who's really going to go and try a 9b+ and find that out...

2. You put your finger on half of the other reason: Different groups of people have been using completely different bouldering grading systems in different areas. Hence all the downgrades in Switzerland and South Africa.

As you say we're slowly converging on pretty much what is used in the US. The reason for that is that the majority of the worlds best boulderers (and certainly the ones doing the most travelling and repeating stuff) are Americans – hence it’s their version of the grading system which is winning out.

Whereas with routes, the worlds sport climbers all tend to go on holiday to Spain – so Spanish grades tend to win out (although at the top end, I think Sharma stiffened the grading system considerably from what it used to be – and as that filters down I think various things in Spain are likely to get slowly downgraded at least a bit).
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 19, 2015, 09:54:48 pm: Yep it's taken years for Nalle just to do the Lappnor project in two sections. Definitely sounds like another level when you consider he's done 3 of the very hardest problems in the world (Livin Large, Buglesien sit and Gioia).
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Sasquatch on January 19, 2015, 11:38:02 pm: A bit of another way of looking at this is to who's tried it extensively and failed.

Dan Beall - has been working this project almost exclusively for the last two years. Has bouldered v15, and ticked almost everything at the milks with the exception of Lucid dreaming.

Matt Birch - no v15's, plenty of v13 and v14 crimping.

Carlo Traversi - multiple v15's

Lots of others have tried it, but those have worked it extensively with no success. Also realize this is woods' third season of trying it. That said, I'm not sure he'll drop the v16 on it.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Fiend on January 20, 2015, 09:34:23 am: I propose that at the cutting edge of bouldering, a first ascentionist must need to have done the same number of problems of the previous V-grade AS the previous V-grade itself. I.e. someone proposing a new V13 should have done at least 12 V12s first. At the very cutting edge this would get harder, i.e. 15 V15s before proposing V16, but that would ensure greater accuracy and avoid prematurely raising grades.

Funnily enough, Woods has probably got that sorted ;D
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: SA Chris on January 20, 2015, 09:50:54 am: http://www.climbing.com/news/woods-serves-the-process-v16/ (http://www.climbing.com/news/woods-serves-the-process-v16/)

Climbing have attached V16 to it (albeit with a ? and the word "possible")
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: JackAus on January 20, 2015, 09:53:05 am: "...as Daniel previously has done 19 8C graded boulders out of which ten FA."

Blah blah quote from 8a.pu
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: JonB on January 21, 2015, 04:26:41 pm: Quote from: Doylo on January 19, 2015, 09:54:48 pm
Yep it's taken years for Nalle just to do the Lappnor project in two sections. Definitely sounds like another level when you consider he's done 3 of the very hardest problems in the world (Livin Large, Buglesien sit and Gioia).

Going back to what people were saying about the 7C+ bit at the top of this thing, I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that Nalle reckoned the 'redpoint crux' of Livin' Large is the 6C+ (or something) top section.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: r-man on January 21, 2015, 06:16:43 pm: Trying to find it on the net. Found Nalle talking about the last move being the redpoint crux

http://nalle-hukkataival.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/livin-large-in-south-africa.html (http://nalle-hukkataival.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/livin-large-in-south-africa.html)

Quote
Turns out that the last move is actually the redpoint crux. That got me really syked again. I mean, how cool is that! You find a perfect, tall highball project just at your limit and the crux is the last move 8 meters off the deck! It doesn't really get any better than that!

And something on the Outcropfilms site, though not by Nalle

http://outcropfilms.blogspot.co.uk/2011_07_01_archive.html (http://outcropfilms.blogspot.co.uk/2011_07_01_archive.html)
Quote
The line is the most stunning thing ever climbed! The ascent by Nalle took bouldering to another level. Logistically it is a ridiculous project. It takes an hour to walk in on no path, you need about 8 pads and spotters. Not to mention it’s 8c and a solid 8 metres high. Imagine Careless Torque but two metres higher, with harder start moves acting as the gatekeepers for the disgustingly technical, scary, E19 without pads, Font 6c+ top section.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: a dense loner on January 21, 2015, 06:39:08 pm: Yep people lv hyperbole ;)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 21, 2015, 07:11:30 pm: Also from that blog:

Quote
Everyone is psyched (apart from Lee Anderson... obviously and Scott thinks it’s shit and recommends you never come here)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: slackline on January 21, 2015, 07:21:28 pm: Someone who knows a thing or two about hard climbing and went to try Livin' Large but didn't get up it (http://www.climbing.com/news/rocklands-wrap-up-by-adam-ondra/) (not much insight to the actual climbing, but he was very keen to get it done).
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: JMB on January 22, 2015, 04:18:28 pm: Daniel Woods: "Yea 8C+ crimp line might seem appropriate. I need to do Gioia first though (I go in february) and Bügeleisen sit to confirm. This is my hardest psychological climb that I have done."

Jens: "This means that The Process, at the moment, is possibly the only 8C+ boulder in the world"
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: jwi on January 22, 2015, 04:54:46 pm: I'm trying to make my life a Jens-free zone. Could you please refrain from quoting him directly on this forum, or
NSFW :
put his crazy ramblings between the nsfw tags?
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: a dense loner on January 22, 2015, 07:37:39 pm: I agree with JWI, that man makes sloper look sane! No more from him if semi-rational people don't mind pls
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Fiend on January 22, 2015, 08:15:34 pm: Christ a gigantic bellend. For god's sake, don't let someone with such a minimal understanding climbing or grading go anywhere near a climbing / logbook website :sick:
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Duma on January 23, 2015, 02:35:12 am: Meanwhile, a couple of metres to the left, Mr Megos works on Lucid Dreaming (http://www.instagram.com/p/yEAjh8ByUg/)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Sasquatch on January 23, 2015, 02:41:25 am: He had done all the moves back in November when I was there, but it was a bit too warm/humid for it.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Nibile on January 23, 2015, 07:36:24 am: Christ Sasq, you're such a nice guy!
This thread could be a gold mine for you, with every post I would remind everyone that "when I was there, the trip in which I climbed The Mandala, you know..."
Good for you you're not me!!!
Chapeau.
;D
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Muenchener on January 23, 2015, 08:02:31 am: He would risk being ridiculed if The Mandala is now four grades below the cutting edge instead of three :tease:
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Ged on January 23, 2015, 09:36:54 am: And wearing Tenaya shoes too, must be at least v18 with them on
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Johnny Brown on January 23, 2015, 10:38:32 am: Quote
disgustingly technical, scary, E19 without pads, Font 6c+ top section

No wonder people think british grades are fucked.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Rocksteady on January 29, 2015, 10:38:09 am: This blog from Daniel Woods explains how the problem breaks down. My interpretation of what he's saying is that he's calling it V16.

http://neverstopexploring.com/2015/01/28/daniel-woods-sends-process/ (http://neverstopexploring.com/2015/01/28/daniel-woods-sends-process/)

Seems hard for him to say it?!
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 29, 2015, 10:45:45 am: Everyone's shitting themselves about getting something downgraded.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: standard on January 29, 2015, 10:52:38 am: Quote
I could smell the rock and feel its energy.
:lol:

i'll just play Devil's advocate:
Quote
The thing it just does not have is the mental factor and that is what separates The Process from the rest
so it's v16 and not v15 because it's scary?

Furthermore, from that blog post, it seems he was lapping the v13 + v14 bit over and over again?
So lapping a v15?
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 29, 2015, 11:09:47 am: Sounds like he thinks the height pushes it over the cusp. Hard V15 for physicality with a bit of spice and stress to push it over. Looks amazing.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: standard on January 29, 2015, 11:25:45 am: Quote from: Doylo on January 29, 2015, 11:09:47 am
Sounds like he thinks the height pushes it over the cusp. Hard V15 for physicality with a bit of spice and stress to push it over. Looks amazing.

I'll continue playing Devil's advocate.
Quote
The (Hueco) scale is similar to many other systems in that it does not take danger or fear into account. Problems are rated based solely on the physical challenge involved. This implies that problems have the same grade on the V-scale on toprope as they would have when bouldered.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Wood FT on January 29, 2015, 11:28:29 am: that's obviosly bollocks though isn't it?
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: jwi on January 29, 2015, 12:07:41 pm: Clearly nonsense How would you know how it would feel on a toprope (disregarding the added complications of having a rope in the way wen climbing...) without having toproped something?

Almost as nonsense as downgrading things by some form of Jacques-Derrida-channeling deconstruction of a blogpost.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: standard on January 29, 2015, 12:57:55 pm: obviously nonsense, i'll stop the DA act now :tease:
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Fiend on January 29, 2015, 01:11:14 pm: Quote from: standard on January 29, 2015, 10:52:38 am
Furthermore, from that blog post, it seems he was lapping the v13 + v14 bit over and over again?
Apart from the last dyno to the "lip" which is the crux of the V14, and V12 as a move in it's own right.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: tomtom on January 29, 2015, 01:17:27 pm: I like the name.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Danny on January 29, 2015, 03:27:58 pm: I like the fact that the (probable) hardest bit of climbing on the planet goes straight up the middle of a fuck-off massive cartoon boulder in a stunning location via a particularly wild move right on the lip. Everything is as it should be.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Muenchener on January 29, 2015, 03:47:40 pm: Quote from: Danny on January 29, 2015, 03:27:58 pm
I like the fact that the (probable) hardest bit of climbing on the planet goes straight up the middle of a fuck-off massive cartoon boulder in a stunning location via a particularly wild move right on the lip. Everything is as it should be.

Definitely an improvement on when it was a grotty looking traverse acroos the bottom of Adam Ondra's local training crag
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Sasquatch on January 29, 2015, 06:40:24 pm: Quote from: Danny on January 29, 2015, 03:27:58 pm
I like the fact that the (probable) hardest bit of climbing on the planet goes straight up the middle of a fuck-off massive cartoon boulder in a stunning location via a particularly wild move right on the lip. Everything is as it should be.
:agree:
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Fiend on January 29, 2015, 06:42:21 pm: It is still a massive stamina plod link-up though.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Sasquatch on January 29, 2015, 06:49:22 pm: Quote from: Fiend on January 29, 2015, 06:42:21 pm
It is still a massive stamina plod link-up though.
Definitely. A 14-15 move stamina fest, with a 30 foot 5.9 slab :)

Where's my 2 move v15?
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: cofe on January 29, 2015, 06:51:27 pm: Lucid.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: John Gillott on January 29, 2015, 07:00:26 pm: Quote from: Sasquatch on January 29, 2015, 06:49:22 pm
Quote from: Fiend on January 29, 2015, 06:42:21 pm
It is still a massive stamina plod link-up though.
Definitely. A 14-15 move stamina fest, with a 30 foot 5.9 slab :)

Where's my 2 move v15?

Jimmy Webb Defies Gravity on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/112839073)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Doylo on January 29, 2015, 07:01:56 pm: Quote from: Sasquatch on January 29, 2015, 06:49:22 pm
Quote from: Fiend on January 29, 2015, 06:42:21 pm
It is still a massive stamina plod link-up though.
Definitely. A 14-15 move stamina fest, with a 30 foot 5.9 slab :)

Where's my 2 move v15?

South Lakes ;)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: r-man on January 29, 2015, 07:03:05 pm: Lancashire (http://www.lakesbloc.com/guides/trowbarrow-guide.pdf)

Edit: You beat me to it Doylo. Even if you did get the county wrong. ;)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Sasquatch on January 29, 2015, 07:09:04 pm: Quote from: cofe on January 29, 2015, 06:51:27 pm
Lucid.
Yeah :)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Fiend on January 29, 2015, 07:42:22 pm: Quote from: r-man on January 29, 2015, 07:03:05 pm
Lancashire (http://www.lakesbloc.com/guides/trowbarrow-guide.pdf)

Edit: You beat me to it Doylo. Even if you did get the county wrong. ;)
Although one minute we're talking about this stunning cartoon boulder and the next minute we're talking about a disgusting grovel that's pretty much bad beta for a ned's toilet spot....
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: r-man on January 30, 2015, 12:52:07 am: Exactly. Utmost respect to G for dedication to the move.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Moo on January 30, 2015, 04:20:55 pm: :worms:
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: r-man on January 30, 2015, 04:36:09 pm: :lol:
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Jaspersharpe on January 30, 2015, 07:41:07 pm: Another thread dragged into the gutter. ;)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: Fiend on January 30, 2015, 08:37:28 pm: The hardest moves are a sit-start in the gutter.
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: tomtom on January 30, 2015, 09:27:42 pm: Quote from: Jaspersharpe on January 30, 2015, 07:41:07 pm
Another thread dragged into the gutter. ;)

Someones nabbed the URL already...

http://www.ukguttering.com/ (http://www.ukguttering.com/)
Title: Re: The Process?
Post by: finbarrr on February 05, 2015, 08:52:10 am: oops,
daniel beall seems to have broken an important hold
http://instagram.com/p/ys5rntBRSK/ (http://instagram.com/p/ys5rntBRSK/)