UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: petejh on January 12, 2013, 08:11:34 pm
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I noticed someone over on the other channel asking about the status of the NW Limestone guide so I thought it'd be worth letting people know where it's up to.
The guide's about 90% written and about 75% laid-out. I've got almost every photo I wanted except for a top-down view of Wall of the Evening Light and someone DWS'ing Primeval. Massive thanks are due to Mike Hutton for being a total wad and driving over from the peak numerous times to get certain shots at certain times of day. Mike's a ledge and the guide would be significantly inferior without his efforts. Doing this book has made me realise how North Wales severely lacks numbers in terms of motivated and reliable climbing photographers prepared to go off the beaten track; there's a niche to fill there for some keen youth!
Keith on ukc mentioned I'd not be keen to publish the guide until the less well-trodden crags had been re-equipped. That was true last year but is no longer so. There's still plenty of lesser-known crags that could be sorted out but realistically it won't happen. The biggest recent development has been Dave Lyon getting re-psyched and blitzing Observatory Buttress with loads of good new routes as well as re-equipping nearly all the older stuff. A keen crew including Martin Doyle, Andy Boorman and Norman Clacher have also done lots here. This is now a brilliant, sunny afternoon venue for mid-grade sport routes in a truly beautiful location. The bird restriction is gone (one tiny area still restricted for a nesting chough).
As one of the UK's original sport-climbing areas, in a marine environment, and with some adventurous cliffs away from the easy access Pen Trwyn and LPT, it's inevitable that there would come a time when this mix of high-maintenance variables would need to be addressed if the less well-known routes weren't to be left to history. It just so happens it coincided with doing the new guide. Steve Mayers did a brilliant job of partially re-equipping some crags including LPT in the 90's - the time of generators and 18mm eco-bolts. The Omes area has really suffered from the massive amount of sub-standard equipment that was placed when bolted routes first started to be put up on the Ormes, and it didn't seem right to do a guidebook to an area where literally nearly half the routes were unclimbable or neglected because of bad equipment. However even the good crags which are just slightly off the beaten path, like Pigeon's Cave, got neglected for 20 years because no-one wanted to venture away from the trade routes/crags when all the other options have shite-looking bolts. It's hard not to look back with hindsight and wonder if the people involved with bolting at that time realised they were creating completely unsustainable routes when they were bolting on the Ormes. The other unsustainable practice was for partially equipped 'trad' routes with the odd rusty bolt protecting the crux, on sea-cliffs.
It's been an epic 5 years ridding the best routes and crags of shite equipment and replacing it with good quality kit. I'd love it if people had leaped into action to re-equip, or just climb, stuff on The Ormesman wall, Lower St. Tudno's, Un Named crag, Craig y Don Lower, Seal Point. But it'll likely be a case of chicken and egg - the new guide will get people thinking about climbing on these crags and, when they realise the bolted routes on these crags are completely fucked and the trad routes need to be either like-for-liked with stainless kit, fully bolted, or often just need a belay/lower-offs sorting out, hopefully a couple of them will have the motivation to do something about it.
The only thing now delaying the book being finished is how quickly I can work. Which means chipping away at it on the laptop for a couple of hours most evenings. I'm confident it will be out for Spring. It's looking really good and I think it's going to showcase this unique area ;D
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Knighthood for Harrison :beer2: :thumbsup: :weakbench: :punk: :2thumbsup:
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A beach holiday will do. Not west shore.
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Not until you've done some more re-equipping :ras:
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Just out of interest will this guidebook cover all of the venues in the A55 sport crags guidebook??
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It will.
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look forward too seeing this, good job
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Seconded, good shit ahoy
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Outstanding efforts Pete. Its all very much appreciated by the scouse element who consider the Orme as basically local for us.
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Just wondering if there is any news on potential release dates? I'm eager to start flicking through and would rather wait a while for this than get the older version.
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And while we're on the subject, where's the bouldering guide got to?
:tumble:
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And while we're on the subject, where's the bouldering guide got to?
:tumble:
We've got to finish Gogarth South first I'm afraid. Don't worry, it'll be well worth the wait. I've written an article for the Climb mag Secret Bloc series as an appetizer.
A group of us did a proof reading session on Pete and Andy's NWL guide recently so it won't be long before that is released I'm sure.
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Was it a group read and book club style discussion?
Be disappointed if not.
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Si was busy eating pizza and drinking the beer provided if I remember rightly... (as well as giving very valuable advice and feedback, true ledge).
The book's written. I'm polishing it up at the moment - things like improving the topos (they were inconsistently sized - I only realised how much so on printing a full draft), make sure everything's hi-res and cmyk. Then there's the graded list, 2 pages of historical text to improve upon, tweak the main intro text, make a route index, create the Diamond topos (best till last etc.), page numbering, solve the riddle of creating the front cover/spine, get the last advert (ahem...) and try to extract the photo of John Dunne on the FFA of Detritus from its originator. It'll be there soon - there's no date and you'll probably hear it'll be in the shops a few days before it arrives, so it'll be nice surprise then. I'm not rushing it though, and I only have so much time/energy each day after work to work on the book.
Should be long enough for Pete to have done another 10 newies...
(btw: the above may sound like a lot but in the context of the overall thing it's a drop in the ocean)
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Thanks, sounds great! Love how much effort and time is going into it! :bow:
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It's looking really good. Not bad for a guidebook virgin...
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get the last advert (ahem...)
Rockfax/UKClimbing? :clown:
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get the last advert (ahem...)
Rockfax/UKClimbing? :clown:
No, that was nudge in my ribs. :-[
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We've got to finish Gogarth South first I'm afraid.
:2thumbsup:
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We've got to finish Gogarth South first I'm afraid.
:2thumbsup:
At least that's one book sale I can count on! ;D
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Don't count on it - remember you're losing Benllech to the competition...
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Don't count on it - remember you're losing Benllech to the competition...
Wrong book you 'nana! Benllech is in Gogarth North.
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Hello. The North Wales Limestone guidebook is now at the printers. It should be arriving in the UK in 3 - 4 week's time and will be available in all good stores shortly after. The book is being distributed by Cordee and is priced at £24.99. It weighs in at 452 pages, quite a whopper!
I'm not taking pre-orders - I've developed a taste for my new-found 'spare time' and have no appetite for spending evenings licking stamps, sorry. :)
An app version of the full guide (minus action photos and background content) will be released by TheSend (http://thesend.co.uk/) at around the same time that the printed book appears on the shelves. To make this happen, the staff at On Sight Publishing (http://www.northwaleslimestone.com/)'s large state-of-the-art IT department* are busy working away entering the book's content into Steve Golley's app editor.
*otherwise known as Tom, on his battered laptop, while on P-y-b night-porter
The app will be for android and iPhone and it will be available to download via TheSend (http://thesend.co.uk/) website (price TBC), as well as from the Apple App Store and Google Play.
There are a few app guides available in the US, and in the UK the Climbers' Club have small sections of some of their print guides available in app format. However I think this will be the first print guidebook in the UK to be fully downloadable as an app.
Where did 4 years go. I hope you like it!
Here's our info blurb:
'North Wales Limestone: The Definitive Guide covers all of the climbing along the North Wales A55 coastal corridor - from Benllech in the west to The Devil’s Gorge (near Mold) in the east, including the popular Great and Little Ormes of Llandudno. The book details nearly 1000 sport routes and over 500 trad routes in this varied climbing area, including the nationally significant trad venue of Craig y Forwyn.
This not-for-profit guidebook has been written by a team of local climbers who all share a keen interest in showcasing the North Wales limestone area with a much-needed definitive guide. All profits from sales will be donated to the bolt fund which has enabled the high proportion of routes in this area that rely on fixed equipment to be equipped with good quality fixed gear – The North Wales Bolt Fund.
The book features inspiring action photos from leading climbing photographers, full-colour photo topos throughout, detailed route descriptions and approach maps, graded list, environmental and access information, and a historical section with contributions from many of the area’s most prolific pioneers.'
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NiVuUnLP5Lg/U8AHiaHYBgI/AAAAAAAABAs/2Or2H873Olc/w269-h400-no/NW+limestone+cover+RGB.jpg)
Yes!
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What took you so long? Rockfax would have had it out 3 years ago :fishing:
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:lol: We were waiting for this local punter to complete his proj...
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Good to hear Pete. Looking forward to seeing it in v12!
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Somebody (unknown/unconnected to me) posted on ukc about the release of the NW Lime guide, and within a couple of hours the thread got zapped. To me that's a paranoid and sinister level of censorship - preventing climbers, who are completely unconnected to me or this guide, talking on ukc about a soon-to-be released climbing guidebook?!
Bullying, controlling, craziness.
How many times can UKC keep banning and censoring people before enough of them get fed up that it affects Alan's advertising revenue?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iOF6Yxd4rNX7uGTlAFISVx5aNEer1Ce1i8bj0BijFpI=w431-h323-p-no)
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Looking forward to this. Will there be a combined price for physical & electronic versions?
Great work putting in all the rebolting & new routing work too.
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I'd have liked to, and if I had any energy left and if I was making any money from the book then I'd put in the legwork to make this happen. But no, as things stand they'll be two separate products.
I'd also liked to have sold the books direct and had pre-orders, but again it isn't worth my time setting it up and I'm too knackered to do the legwork. It's opened my eyes for future possibilities though. A 4 year lesson.
It's only now I've reached this stage that the dynamics of actually selling the thing have taken shape in my mind - now I just want rid of it and to see it in shops and being used at the crag.
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Pete,
It was me that posted. They have said in the past that someone not associated can place a reference on the forums but now they have the following;
Non-commercial Post Promoting an Event, Product or Web Site
Although we will occasionally allow people to use the UKC forums to
promote free events, charity events and free web sites, we prefer to be
approached first so that we can make a decision on this.
My post was to see other peoples opinion about the app/guidebook approach (which I think is an excellent development) and to consider whether it to be the next step (missing in the rockfax portfolio? Did they have a paddy?) for climbing guides.
GBPCG
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Excellent news Pete! I eagerly anticipate arrival in the shops!
Thanks again for all the hard work you've put in to the guide and the area.
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nice one Andy & Pete, looks great, can't wait to get a copy.
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...
My post was to see other peoples opinion about the app/guidebook approach (which I think is an excellent development) and to consider whether it to be the next step (missing in the rockfax portfolio? Did they have a paddy?) for climbing guides.
GBPCG
Hi GBPCG. I think the most likely explanation for your thread being deleted by UKC is Alan was 'having a paddy' that somebody else other than rockfax is releasing an app version of their guidebook and receiving 'free publicity' about it on his website.
Alan has been very careful to censor any mention of TheSend on UKC since the first app came out more than 3 years ago, to the extent that very few users of that forum actually know that TheSend exists and produces a free top-quality App platform for guidebook authors to use. Every post mentioning TheSend is removed under the guise of not advertising a commercial product. Even though people freely discuss cams and nuts, other guides and clothing/equipment etc. all the time...
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What do you expect from a pig but grunts?
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...
My post was to see other peoples opinion about the app/guidebook approach (which I think is an excellent development) and to consider whether it to be the next step (missing in the rockfax portfolio? Did they have a paddy?) for climbing guides.
GBPCG
Hi GBPCG. I think the most likely explanation for your thread being deleted by UKC is Alan was 'having a paddy' that somebody else other than rockfax is releasing an app version of their guidebook and receiving 'free publicity' about it on his website.
Alan has been very careful to censor any mention of TheSend on UKC since the first app came out more than 3 years ago, to the extent that very few users of that forum actually know that TheSend exists and produces a free top-quality App platform for guidebook authors to use. Every post mentioning TheSend is removed under the guise of not advertising a commercial product. Even though people freely discuss cams and nuts, other guides and clothing/equipment etc. all the time...
I didn't theSend existed, and it looks perfect for what I want. Cheers!
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Just a quick update on the progress of the book in case anyone was wondering where it's at. I've been having a bit of back and forwards with the printers over the last two weeks about getting the files just right for printing and this has led to a small delay. All a bit frustrating, but everything's sorted out now and they contacted me yesterday with a firm delivery date of Sept 2nd to Cordee (so in the shops a couple of days later) and a possibility that it may be a bit earlier. So not the 3-4 weeks at the printers we'd hoped for, oh well. Not far away. V12 and Joe Brown in Llanberis will have the first copies delivered direct.
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No point rushing at this late stage after all the effort you've put into getting it perfect,coincides with the end of the school hols as well. Can't wait.
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Just a quick update on the progress of the book in case anyone was wondering where it's at. I've been having a bit of back and forwards with the printers over the last two weeks about getting the files just right for printing and this has led to a small delay. All a bit frustrating, but everything's sorted out now and they contacted me yesterday with a firm delivery date of Sept 2nd to Cordee (so in the shops a couple of days later) and a possibility that it may be a bit earlier. So not the 3-4 weeks at the printers we'd hoped for, oh well. Not far away. V12 and Joe Brown in Llanberis will have the first copies delivered direct.
Cheers for the update Pete, no rush!
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Is the guidebook still due out this week?
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Expected to arrive at Cordee next Monday or Tuesday now.
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It was supposed to arrive yesterday but I received this email on Monday:
I'm afraid the books won't be ready until Thursday this week so they will arrive at Cordee on next Monday or Tuesday.
I will arrange for the x 2 file copies to be dispatched on Thursday so they will be with you Friday or Monday.
All my books are running behind schedule this week, there was a miscommunication on the delivery date from the factory which should have been the dispatch date.
Apologies for this.
I was too fed-up to update people.
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It'll be worth it Pete ...
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Looks like it's arrived from the pic that just appeared on my fb feed...
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I was with Pete when he got his copy. Had to give him a hankie as he had a little tear in his eye. Is superb!
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Congratulations Pete! :thumbsup:
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:punk: :punk: :punk:
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Woooo!
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(http://i62.tinypic.com/21kbevn.jpg)
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When does it hit the shops :bounce:
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Can order copies from v12 from there website but not in stock yet.
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Should be early next week.
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:icon_beerchug: Thanks!
Like Chris says it should be in the shops next week. We got sent two copies for approval which we received yesterday lunchtime - we've approved them, and the bulk should be dispatched tomorrow from Poland.
This was my first experience of doing this sort of thing and I've learned loads - including how naive I was at the beginning to think I'd bosh it out in two years.. My goal was to showcase the NW Limestone area and give it its own 'proper' guidebook, and my biggest fear was that I'd end up spending years producing something that turned out looking amateurish and a bit shoddy; well, I'm glad and relieved to say it's really high quality and professional-looking, even Andy Boorman thinks it's 'proper good' so it must be good! I'm so happy with the end result and I think people are going to love it!
Thanks to UKB'ers and all those folk on facebook for giving us encouragement and kind words - Andy and I really appreciated the comments and they helped reinforce the motivation needed to stick it out and do a proper job. I'm glad ukb exists, the climbing scene would be poorer without it and it kept me psyched knowing there were a bunch of psyched people out there. I think this site represents a lot of what's good about climbing - notably the humour and creativity, freedom to do things differently and freedom of expression.
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Can't wait to buy it m8, really looking forward too it,now get the 2nd accent of homosexual the longest project on the orme? ha,well done
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Nice one Pete. That moment when you open the book for the first time is pretty intense.
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I'm going to Bangor on Sunday, is it worth a diversion to V12 to pick up a copy?
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No. I'm being royally fucked around by a disingenuous prick of a print agent who's been feeding us bullshit since the start of the print process. Going off what he told us the book would have been in the shops in early August. There has been misleading answer after misleading answer from him about the print schedule and his latest, and hopefully last, load of bullshit was saying the bulk of books would definitely be delivered to the distributor's warehouse by the end of this week. It hasn't been. I mean, we only paid 7 days ago following approval of the two approval copies and it must take, oh, weeks for a truck to drive from Poland to the UK. And we only paid extra thousands of pounds premium based on this shyster's promised '3-4 week turnaround' and so far it's only been 10 weeks and still no delivery - so nothing to be concerned about then. I'm genuinely astounded at how unprofessional, disingenuous and completely unashamedly unconcerned at failing to deliver what he offered and what we paid for this person is and yet he's still be in business in the print industry. Talking to other publishers it sounds like we got unlucky with this total arsehole who appears to think nothing of conning money out of people on false pretenses.
The only good thing is the printers did a great job with the book - at least the two preview copies look great anyway.
Yes I'm frustrated, I just want to see it in the shops like it should have been 6 weeks ago.
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I know its not the biggest issue but claim the premium back from the publisher agent for failing to deliver in accordance with the agreed schedule.
Still looking forward to the guide been waiting a long time what's a couple more weeks
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Hurray! Got a copy, good effort guys looks great.
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Hurray! Got a copy, good effort guys looks great.
Jealous! Excited to get mine soon! :2thumbsup:
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An Early batch arrived in v12 this morning Luke :dance1:
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I see the cocktalk thread about this is archived after 4 posts!
http://ielt9.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=598661 (http://ielt9.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=598661)
Perhaps we should all chip in for a paid for advert? It would be interesting to see how much filthy lucre is required before they'd take the puff piece, perhaps we could advertise it under the banner 'the soon to be most plagarised guide in Europe'
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I think an advert for the niche publication for cockerels who use facsimile machines would be perfect.
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Good spot Sloper. Unbelievable shit.
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Seems a bit harsh, it's only archived as there is another thread about the book and a there is a link to the other thread. There is also a review of said book on the site as well.
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Seems a bit harsh, it's only archived as there is another thread about the book and a there is a link to the other thread. There is also a review of said book on the site as well.
True dat - there is a (rather odd) review...
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Seems a bit harsh, it's only archived as there is another thread about the book and a there is a link to the other thread. There is also a review of said book on the site as well.
True dat - there is a (rather odd) review...
Thought it was quite a good one - the reviews there often end up feeling very advertorial, which this one didn't and was all the better for it!
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I thought the review was ok, there hardly likely to enthuse too much
Just don't mention the send online app as the thread will get pulled
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I'm glad ukb exists, the climbing scene would be poorer without it and it kept me psyched knowing there were a bunch of psyched people out there. I think this site represents a lot of what's good about climbing - notably the humour and creativity, freedom to do things differently and freedom of expression.
Nice thing to say, but I'm not sure it will all fit on the back of the next T shirt.
Good work on the book!
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quick update on the app. been speaking to Pete but thought I'd share a couple of screenies for folks here too. We're just running through the last few things to tidy up and it'll be online shortly after...
Everyone's favourite 7c
(http://thesendtopos.co.uk/northwaleslime/_previewbadbadboy.png)
And a peek at some new toys
(http://thesendtopos.co.uk/northwaleslime/_previewticklist.png)
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Ahhhh, and calm.
UKC have zapped my post on the Limestone App thread. It only quoted their email to me saying "Your thread 'North Wales Limestone Guide - the guidebook next step' started at 21:39 Fri has been removed from the UKClimbing.com Forums".
Strange that.
Love the screenshots
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Alan James? Deleting posts he doesn't like? Image crafting/censorship on UKC?
That amazes me.
The North Wales Limestone App is out and available for anyone who cares to search for it in cyberspace (I think the Android version is out tomorrow). This is the first full guidebook in the UK to be available in both print and App for iOS & Android. No doubt it'll be the first of many. It feels satisfying to beat Rockfax to the market with apps :). Huge thanks are due to Steve Golley for building the app platform and toiling very hard to make these things a reality. Steve's done it all in his spare time as a voluntary effort to allow guidebook authors to get their books out on the market in App format - massive kudos is due.
The Lime App looks great and I think it's very user-friendly, I'm really pleased with TheSend's app platform bar one or two minor improvements which no-doubt will come with version updates. The app comes integrated with 8a.nu's scorecard so you can log ascents from the app. You can also add them to an internal ticklist (nb. you have to add the routes to your ticklist before it will allow you to add them to your 8a scorecard).
Unfortunately it's not where you'd expect to find it (TheSend website!), which is why I hadn't bothered mentioning that it's out - didn't want people to get confused thinking the 'Lime Lite Taster app' which is on TheSend's website was the full app. There's now't I can do about that, ahem.
Steve's new Kalymnos app is also top-quality and makes me want to go there now!
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Great stuff Pete.
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Fuck me, at this rate I might have to actually try some North Wales Limestone Sport routes, just a quick question can I down grade everything I flash to 4+?
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You can if get yourself an 8a scorecard!
Make sure it is a flash though..
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Fuck me, at this rate I might have to actually try some North Wales Limestone Sport routes, just a quick question can I down grade everything I flash to 4+?
So all the 3s will get a grade inflation or do you get a + or a - for climbing in brogues. :kiss2:
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Don't be daft I have various pairs of climbing shoes, 5.10s, Boreals some other random stuff, but I will claim 8a+ for everything I climb in my lederhosen.
Besides I nearly did 6a on the Heely Boulder in my old suede Chelsea boots when pissed (and Jasper fuck off they don't have Cuban heels) so 4 in brogues should be achievable.
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I've just bought it and i'm going to use it tomorrow to save my guide getting grubby.
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Doesn't wanking over it get it grubby then?
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Doesn't wanking over it get it grubby then?
Not if I get my bird to hold the pages open for me.
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Wipe clean cover too.
Besides I nearly did 6a on the Heely Boulder in my old suede Chelsea boots when pissed (and Jasper fuck off they don't have Cuban heels) so 4 in brogues should be achievable.
French 4?, yes - any creature with four limbs and control over them should be able to onsight French 4 in brogues. But how about French 5+? You talk the talk Mr Slopes, but if you walk the walk (in legal issue footwear) and supply photo evidence along with belayer corroboration, I'll send you a free guide. I'm relying on your good character not to fiddle the evidence.
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Looks awesome, shame my phone is so old it barely sends texts.
The app comes integrated with 8a.nu's scorecard so you can log ascents from the app.
Didn't fancy getting it to link to the UKC Database Pete? ;)
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Would have been nice, yes. The logbook is popular. But I think I've demolished that particular bridge.
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I'm not sure what is less likely, Sloper tying onto a rope or Sloper having a good character!
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No sign of North Wales Limestone on Google Play as yet.
:-\
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SteG assures me it'll be up on Google Play today. I just checked and it's not there yet, still just showing the 'lite' taster app. Shouldn't be long. Apologies for the confusion.
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But I think I've demolished that particular bridge.
You think? I would say burned, demolished then smashed the pices into smaller pieces and then buried those pieces.
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Alright, I know!
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Looks awesome, shame my phone is so old it barely sends texts.
The app comes integrated with 8a.nu's scorecard so you can log ascents from the app.
Didn't fancy getting it to link to the UKC Database Pete? ;)
Luke, given that they've spent the last 3-4 years deleting every single mention of my apps and the publishing platform, do you really think they'd let me integrate into their logbook :-\
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it's done and in Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thesend.northwaleslimestone (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thesend.northwaleslimestone)
AND the App Store https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/north-wales-limestone/id927657734 (https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/north-wales-limestone/id927657734)
BUT - it's going to take a couple of hours before it shows up in Google Play so please don't click link straight away and come back here and say you couldn't find it. Happy days!
hope you all enjoy it
s
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Good work Steve.
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well done to all, looks great.
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Looks awesome, shame my phone is so old it barely sends texts.
The app comes integrated with 8a.nu's scorecard so you can log ascents from the app.
Didn't fancy getting it to link to the UKC Database Pete? ;)
Luke, given that they've spent the last 3-4 years deleting every single mention of my apps and the publishing platform, do you really think they'd let me integrate into their logbook :-\
Correction (since I can't edit the post) - although it does appear that the moderation policy is showing some signs of being less stringent these days. Let's hope it continues.
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Didn't fancy getting it to link to the UKC Database Pete? ;)
Luke, given that they've spent the last 3-4 years deleting every single mention of my apps and the publishing platform, do you really think they'd let me integrate into their logbook :-\
Haha, tongue was very firmly in cheek!