UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => equipment => Topic started by: Fultonius on June 29, 2022, 12:20:12 pm
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Scarpa fit me very well, so I'm pretty much wedded to them. (tried on some cheap Otakis the other day and they felt horrific, conversely, the new TC Pros seemed ok...so..).
But...
I'm yet to find a "direct" replacement for some niche times the whites were amazing. The Dumby sport wall is one of those occasions. The whites were just so precise and confidence inspiring. I get on "ok" with the Instinct VS on the same routes but somehow it doesn't quite have the same "magic" as the whites. On the plus side they're waaay better on loads of other rock types, last more than 4 sessions without going floppy and can take 2 resoles, so I really don't miss the full-life experience of the whites.
What's your favourite white replacement?
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I never got on with the White's (too numb and insensitive) or the Instinct VS (wrong last, again too numb) but the new Boostics tick all the boxes for me. Stiff, a properly asymmetric last, sensitive and not overly downturned. I never used the old ones, so I can't compare
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Hmm, interesting. I have a pair and haven't tried them yet on that wall. Will do so tomorrow.
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Stiffest Scarpa edging shoes I have are V1 and V2 Magos. New Boostics are nice, but not as stiff.
https://shop.theclimbingacademy.com/product/scarpa-mago/
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The magos are pretty soft I think, instinct lace is the best for edging I think
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It's not so much "hard edging" in the "putting a tonne of force through small holds" that I'm looking for, it's weird balance of stiffness (but not too stiff, old Magos were rubbish on Sufferance), grip and precision. I guess instinct lace would work ok, but I only have them sized up for trad.
I'll report back on the boostics and ground fall tomorrow. :yes:
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Have you tried any of the unparallel shoes? I was under the impression that the up was pretty much a Anasazi old pink or white. Haven’t tried them myself.
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Have you tried any of the unparallel shoes? I was under the impression that the up was pretty much a Anasazi old pink or white. Haven’t tried them myself.
Yeah I'd second the suggestion of trying unparallels if you want something close to the white.
On the Scarpa side I'm surprised no ones suggested the vapour v yet. I haven't worn the V3s but the first and second gen ones were a good, slightly flatter shoe where you could still get some good edging done.
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It's not so much "hard edging" in the "putting a tonne of force through small holds" that I'm looking for, it's weird balance of stiffness (but not too stiff, old Magos were rubbish on Sufferance), grip and precision.
That sounds like the Boostics. Personally, I’d happily sacrifice some of their sensitivity for a thicker midsole, but they are as you describe there.
@timpalmer yes, the new magos look pretty soft in the shop, I won’t be buying them. The previous iterations are much stiffer.
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Have you tried any of the unparallel shoes?
I know you can shop online, but does any shop in Scotland actually stock UP shoes?
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I know you said Scarpa but you're basically describing the Miura VS. For context these fit very differently to Otaki (much wider at the front) and are absolute weapons on an edge but also sensitive enough when necessary. For vert to moderate overhang they are a very strong contender. I'd agree the closest comparison from Scarpa would be Boostic or Instinct Lace.
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I know you said Scarpa but you're basically describing the Miura VS. For context these fit very differently to Otaki (much wider at the front) and are absolute weapons on an edge but also sensitive enough when necessary. For vert to moderate overhang they are a very strong contender. I'd agree the closest comparison from Scarpa would be Boostic or Instinct Lace.
I don't know if I'm just missing something in the fit, but with Scarpa I pull them out the box, slip them on and they fit like a glove. With La Sportiva they have multiple contact points and dead spots, feel super clunky and oddly shaped. Does this change with use? I've only ever persevered with a pair of TC Pros and they took a good 1000m+ of granite to start feeling useable.
Unparallel - yet to try them on (as Chris says, hard to find in Scotland) I never got on well with the 5.10 shape, and only just got the whites to work though perseverance. Dragons, pinks, VCS never worked for me. I did have greens once iirc, but like the whites they just bagged out and became floppy really quickly (probably because they didn't actually really fit me, so I was just relying on the "new shoe stiffness" to make them work.
Suns out, so might actually get climbing today!
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As someone who has the exact opposite experience (cant wear scarpa no matter how much time I give them) I'm not that surprised. Agree that Muira VS fits very different to Otakis though.
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Still got some unused whites in case I ever go back on the Oak and have lots of slightly squidgy ones that I wear regularly. Have grown to love my katakis - particularly the feel and feedback. In one instance they outperformed the whites on a particularly terrible outside edge (maybe due to the toe profile?)
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Don't know how they'd compare to the whites, but the Unparallel Up-Rise Pro is pretty damn good for pressing hard through small things. Although you balance that against them being more likely to pop off unexpectedly...
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After my last pair of whites I got a pair of unparallel up laces.
It's a bit of a strange shoe, the last is thicker and the rubber is also thicker so it feels quite sweaty and unresponsive out of the box. Once broken in they smear like nothing else and are pretty good at edging but they lacked the precision I would have expected from old whites. Possibly due to the shape of the toe?
Another solution may be resoling if you have old whites that fit? I got the up laces done at Langley's in Edinburgh last week and very impressed with them! He uses vibram rubber and tried to match it so you may even be able to research which rubber would be the most "whites" before chatting to the guy?
Good luck on your quest! I'd love to have some old reliable five-tens, before VCS were clogs and hi-angles were hard and glassy.
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What is it about the mythical whites that everyone loves? Judging by how they are described, they don't seem very good overall! Is it just ultimate stiffness in the toe for edging? Someone needs to come up with a retrofit carbon fibre insert for any shoe.
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I found them to be a brilliant all-round shoe: edging, smearing, everything. Fitted my fairly narrow feet really well. Did loads of stuff in them back in the day. The newer whites were garbage. I've struggled to find anything to replace them since.
On Scarpa, I got some women's Instincts recently which seem great but are possibly a touch too roomy at the front (I might need a smaller size, but I have different-sized feet so it's hard to get sizing right). Do people go pretty small with new Instincts or are they generally OK from the off?
UP shoes have been hit and miss so far: hoped the Regulus would be like the Hiangle, but it's not at all. Haven't risked the TN Pro yet. Can't get the Flagship on. Getting on OK with the standard velcros and the Newtro VCS.
Tried Sportiva but they were a non-starter fit wise.
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I know you said Scarpa but you're basically describing the Miura VS. For context these fit very differently to Otaki (much wider at the front) and are absolute weapons on an edge but also sensitive enough when necessary. For vert to moderate overhang they are a very strong contender. I'd agree the closest comparison from Scarpa would be Boostic or Instinct Lace.
I don't know if I'm just missing something in the fit, but with Scarpa I pull them out the box, slip them on and they fit like a glove. With La Sportiva they have multiple contact points and dead spots, feel super clunky and oddly shaped. Does this change with use? I've only ever persevered with a pair of TC Pros and they took a good 1000m+ of granite to start feeling useable.
Unparallel - yet to try them on (as Chris says, hard to find in Scotland) I never got on well with the 5.10 shape, and only just got the whites to work though perseverance. Dragons, pinks, VCS never worked for me. I did have greens once iirc, but like the whites they just bagged out and became floppy really quickly (probably because they didn't actually really fit me, so I was just relying on the "new shoe stiffness" to make them work.
Suns out, so might actually get climbing today!
I used Miura VS for years before moving to the Instinct VS.
Both fit me really well but the Miura definitely took a few sessions to wear in. I tried them recently and didn’t like the feel but it’s been about 5 years since I last wore a pair. But I’m sure they would be great again if I got through a few uncomfortable sessions.
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What is it about the mythical whites that everyone loves? Judging by how they are described, they don't seem very good overall! Is it just ultimate stiffness in the toe for edging? Someone needs to come up with a retrofit carbon fibre insert for any shoe.
One of my climbing partners does exactly this - he makes his own carbon-fibre inserts for his climbing shoes. He got frostbitten big toes and needs the extra support.
I get on well with Whites and liked them so much I bought 5 pairs at £50 per pair before they stopped manufacturing. Still have three pairs unused. I find them great for non-steep sport, and they become good all-round shoes after they go baggy and can use them on mid E-grade trad for years without loss of performance. Brilliant for heel-hooking. Having a pair of good-condition Whites or a.n.other stiff shoe and a pair of well-fitting downturned velcros covers 99% of climbing for the average person imo.
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What is it about the mythical whites that everyone loves? Judging by how they are described, they don't seem very good overall! Is it just ultimate stiffness in the toe for edging? Someone needs to come up with a retrofit carbon fibre insert for any shoe.
One of my climbing partners does exactly this - he makes his own carbon-fibre inserts for his climbing shoes. He got frostbitten big toes and needs the extra support.
How does he make these inserts Pete?
Guess they must be thin..
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The magos are pretty soft I think, instinct lace is the best for edging I think
Tim - have you tried the new Magos? I need a replacement for the old yellow Booster S as I'm running out of resoled ones and haven't found anything equivalent yet but haven't tried the new Mago...
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One of my climbing partners does exactly this - he makes his own carbon-fibre inserts for his climbing shoes. He got frostbitten big toes and needs the extra support.
How does he make these inserts Pete?
Guess they must be thin..
I asked him and he relied: ''I bought a factory made piece of carbon fibre and cut out a piece to go under the front section of the shoes, leaving about 25mm around the edge for the rubber sole to fix, then sent them to a re-soler to fix the sole over the top. If you want really stiff get 2mm, or for a bit more feel get 1.5mm. Got the carbon fibre piece from Easy Composites. The pieces are 2mm thickness''
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I need a replacement for the old yellow Booster S as I'm running out of resoled ones and haven't found anything equivalent yet but haven't tried the new Mago...
This. I have one brand new pair left in the wardrobe and then I'm out. The Chimera is good, even better in some cases, but no replacement. Can chuck the Booster in my bag and it will basically cover all bases.
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One of my climbing partners does exactly this - he makes his own carbon-fibre inserts for his climbing shoes. He got frostbitten big toes and needs the extra support.
How does he make these inserts Pete?
Guess they must be thin..
I asked him and he relied: ''I bought a factory made piece of carbon fibre and cut out a piece to go under the front section of the shoes, leaving about 25mm around the edge for the rubber sole to fix, then sent them to a re-soler to fix the sole over the top. If you want really stiff get 2mm, or for a bit more feel get 1.5mm. Got the carbon fibre piece from Easy Composites. The pieces are 2mm thickness''
Ah that's interesting. Quite the proper job.
I wonder if the same could be achieved creating a piece to slide to the shoe instead or would it stand a possibly of shattering inside your shoe and you bleeding all over your belayer...
I recall John Arran cut up some credit cards and put them in his boots to do a certain edgy route on the grit.
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The magos are pretty soft I think, instinct lace is the best for edging I think
Tim - have you tried the new Magos? I need a replacement for the old yellow Booster S as I'm running out of resoled ones and haven't found anything equivalent yet but haven't tried the new Mago...
No, just the previous version, I really like them but they aren't my shoe of choice for edging