UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => shootin' the shit => Topic started by: slab_happy on October 16, 2021, 02:01:40 pm
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Last year, the National Trust committed the terrible crime of publishing a report on the links between some of its properties, slavery and colonialism, because, you know, those links exist and are part of the historical context.
This caused much upset in predictable circles (strangely, the people who think pulling down statues is "erasing history" are also very opposed to, er, presenting information on history) so now a bunch of wankers are attempting a coup:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/13/national-trust-warns-of-threat-from-ideological-campaign-waged-against-it
One of their favoured candidates is this charmer:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/5388626.stm
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/meet-stephen-green-right-wing-christian-voice-leader-who-went-homophobic-tirade-against-stephen-fry-and-benedict-cumberbatch-10039270.html
His "why you should vote for me" section in the AGM leaflet is entirely about how much he hates the Trust's acknowledgement of LGBTQ+ issues (or LGBTQ+ people having existed ever). Entirely. Paragraph and paragraphs.
If you're a National Trust member, you can vote online (deadline 11.59pm on the 22nd Oct) -- all you need is your membership number: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/annual-general-meeting
Information on the candidates endorsed by the Restore Trust (though at least one of them appears to have been endorsed against his will and says he supports the slavery/colonialism report):
https://twitter.com/SLevelt/status/1444568195646566403
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Cheers for the nudge. Had seen the issue but I’ll make sure to vote.
I particularly liked his justification for harassing the Cardiff Mardi Gras attendees
It is important that Christians should be able to stand up for the Gospel and resist any attempt by the police to trample our civil rights
Victimhood just looks so much better when you’re the actual aggressor, wouldn’t you agree?
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Last year, the National Trust committed the terrible crime of publishing a report on the links between some of its properties, slavery and colonialism, because, you know, those links exist and are part of the historical context.
Thanks for raising this slab_happy. I was a member for many years but no longer am, for obvious reasons. The treatment handed out to Corinne Fowler and others involved in the report was horrific, from both some sections of the press and some members of the press.
More generally, over the last couple of years it's becoming blindingly obvious that Britain is still not able or ready to have a meaningful conversation about its history.
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Unrelated to this but my parents have just cancelled their NT memberships after their cycling group were recently told all of the non-members (which was over half of them) would have to pay full entry fee just to use the cafe at a place they’ve been stopping at mid ride for years. The reason given was that the NT had lost money during Covid which they now had to recoup. Seems like a pretty counterproductive new policy though. Not only did they miss out on about £100 from lunch that day but they’ve now lost at least two membership fees (plus others from the group who said they were also going to cancel) and thousands of pounds in cafe spend each year from that group alone.
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It’s not even able to have a meaningful conversation about its present, let alone its past!
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Cheers for the nudge. Had seen the issue but I’ll make sure to vote.
I particularly liked his justification for harassing the Cardiff Mardi Gras attendees
It is important that Christians should be able to stand up for the Gospel and resist any attempt by the police to trample our civil rights
Victimhood just looks so much better when you’re the actual aggressor, wouldn’t you agree?
It's like the anti-vaxxers sticking yellow stars on themselves. Cosplaying oppression is only fun when you're not being oppressed in any significant way.
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It's like the anti-vaxxers sticking yellow stars on themselves.
Does that actually happen?? :jaw:
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That Green character is hilarious, From his NT statement
I seek election to end … its promotion of fashionable ‘woke’ causes. Even as I was filling in the Council election forms, the Trust asked not just my sex but my ‘gender identity’ and my sexual orientation!….
The 2017 Felbrigg Hall affair, in which the Trust claimed the donor, the late Robert Ketton-Cremer, was homosexual, on no evidence, shows where this madness leads. I shall ensure that future donors feel safe from the Trust poring over their past and inventing salacious details of an imagined private life.
Sure seems to have quite an interest in the subject.
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It's like the anti-vaxxers sticking yellow stars on themselves.
Does that actually happen?? :jaw:
Oh yes:
https://twitter.com/RMTiede/status/1398420988061179910
https://twitter.com/Lollardfish/status/1386014415435091972
The Auschwitz Museum has some opinions about this:
https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1386035293933998083
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Wow. ‘Moral and intellectual decline’ sums it up. Makes me a bit cross, tbh
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Just saying ...
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/16/racist-attack-on-english-heritage-exhibition-celebrating-black-lives
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Thanks for the nudge. For ref there's a list of the Trust's proposed picks on the voting launch page, so you don't have to work out who the most appropriate people to vote for are.
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Thanks for the links and prod slab, voted.
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Thanks for the heads-up, I'm only a member for the parking in the Lakes, that was some eye-opening reading :o
Now voted :thumbsup:
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Yeah, I think there are loads of people who have membership for practical reasons but normally have minimal interest in th internal goings-on of the Trust; apparently only 0.5% percentage of members vote at the AGM.
But as a result, there's the potential for a small group -- who apparently have a shit-tonne of money to pour into social media advertising -- to try to hijack the process and get someone like Stephen Green onto the council, even though most members probably wouldn't support him (if they even knew this was going on; I only found out because of newspaper articles).
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While you're about it you could also vote to ban fox hunting on NT land.
https://www.keeptheban.uk/post/breaking-voting-opens-to-ban-hunting-on-national-trust-land
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Indeed. In fact I'm mildly optimistic that the publicity around this will mean in backfires spectacularly in the bigots faces, and the hunting wankers will be banned as a bonus.
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Thanks for the heads-up, I'm only a member for the parking in the Lakes
Yeah, I think there are loads of people who have membership for practical reasons but normally have minimal interest in the internal goings-on of the Trust; apparently only 0.5% percentage of members vote at the AGM.
Unrelated to this but my parents have just cancelled their NT memberships after their cycling group were recently told all of the non-members (which was over half of them) would have to pay full entry fee just to use the cafe at a place they’ve been stopping at mid ride for years.
There are huge numbers of people who support the NT's excellent work on coast on countryside but have no interest in visiting the Country House Jane Austen theme park side of it. I've never joined for this reason - I've no interest in the fancies of the Edwardian super-rich whether or not the gains were ill-gotten (and they mostly were). For years the BMC access team have been campaigning for them to introduce a Coast and Countryside membership. They did trial it in Cornwall apparently but dropped it due to the impression that it was just a parking ticket. I'm not really sure that is such an issue or one that couldn't be easily addressed, but they seem unwilling to revisit the issue soon, shame. It would undoubtedly increase overall membership but I can only assume the houses eat all the money and they have intel that a large section of their membership have no interest in them.
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Members should also consider taking the opportunity to vote against Hunting with Dogs on NT land:
https://www.keeptheban.uk/post/breaking-voting-opens-to-ban-hunting-on-national-trust-land
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Apparently Stephen Green lost by a terrifyingly-narrow margin of 838 votes:
https://twitter.com/greenbenali/status/1455130685501497346
So, well done everyone who voted NOT for him!
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That is clearly the difficulty of voting in an election where there are a whole range of reasonable people and one cunt.
All the cunts vote for the cunt whilst all the reasonable people split their votes between the thirty odd reasonable candidates.
I voted for the NT recommended candidates simply because I did not want Stephen Green elected.
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The twats are still at it:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/31/right-wing-group-target-national-trust-council-over-rewilding-and-lgbt-stance
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Restore Trust are not to be trusted! My polite plea to any member would be to not vote for any RT backed candidate.
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Unfortunately it would appear the online voting has already closed this year. Unsurprising to see that Restore Trust is linked to a certain Tufton Street address, along with most of the other shit things happening in our country.
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Unfortunately it would appear the online voting has already closed this year. Unsurprising to see that Restore Trust is linked to a certain Tufton Street address, along with most of the other shit things happening in our country.
Yeah, RT are very pretty opaque about funding etc. Same with History Reclaimed (with which there is a lot of overlap in terms of personnel etc.).
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Just spoken to the NT. Voting is closed now. I suggested they send out email reminders in future.
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I got a pack through the post?
Voted for the guy who had founded the first LGBTQ+ boxing club...
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I probably did too, sometimes things find their way into the recycling without getting noticed as they should.
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Unfortunately it would appear the online voting has already closed this year. Unsurprising to see that Restore Trust is linked to a certain Tufton Street address, along with most of the other shit things happening in our country.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/annual-general-meeting
If I'm reading this correctly, advance online voting is closed, but you can still attend the AGM virtually and vote on the day.
ETA: whoops, I was reading incorrectly, because registration to attend (even virtually) is closed.
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When and where will the results be posted? Following with some interest, as someone who cancelled membership a couple of years ago.
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When and where will the results be posted? Following with some interest, as someone who cancelled membership a couple of years ago.
Makes it sound like you cancelled your membership because the Trust was becoming too woke for you 😄
I don’t think I got an AGM pack this year, but there is a chance like MrJR that it was processed quickly!
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Haha! A fair read. I actually cancelled over lockdown. At the time I was living in a van, and a ranger kicked me off a totally empty parkup where I'd been living for a week or so (with no other hassle free options in the vicinity). They did it without warning by moving boulders into the layby when I went to get gas.
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None of the Restore Trust people succeeded in getting elected, thank god.
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Good news for once!
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Good news for once!
True! However, it's not like they completely bombed - many of the RT candidates got around 40,000 votes to the c. 70,000 of candidates who won election, a comfortable margin but one dependent on a very small proportion of the Trust's millions of members. I've no doubt RT and whoever funds them will try again.
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Good news, but as you say their vite share increased over the previous year. I see they've taken a age out of the Republican play book and are blaming the voting process https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/06/right-leaning-group-fails-to-wrest-control-of-national-trust-from-political-takeover
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Unfortunately it would appear the online voting has already closed this year. Unsurprising to see that Restore Trust is linked to a certain Tufton Street address, along with most of the other shit things happening in our country.
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/tufton-street-dark-money
OH HELL YEAH -- Good Law Project seem to be trying to do a deep dive into Tufton Street and all the dodgy shit emanating from there.
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Well now, this post won't seem at all pretentious but hey....
I was watching a bit of YT and I couldn't help thinking how astute Foucault was in his view of institutions, and just how 'modern' that seemed in the context of BLM and bodies like NT reassessing their history. Now I suspect the National Trust and Michel Foucault aren't often linked in people's minds, but it was an honest thought, so here.. (1.35-12.31)
https://youtu.be/xpVQ3l5P0A4?t=94
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On the subject of that bunch of dark money wankers in 55 Tufton Street -- turns out the LGB Alliance are also based there, and were concealing that fact:
https://twitter.com/WeeMelter/status/1604087507829882883
For anyone not familiar with them, they're an aggressively anti-trans-rights group.
When challenged over what they actually do for lesbian, gay and bisexual people (since you're not supposed have charitable status if you're solely a political campaigning group), they explained that they were going to "get around to it":
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/mermaids-appeals-charity-commission-lgb-alliance-status/
(Deeply disappointed that I seem to be the only person making "astro-TERF" jokes: come on people the joke is right there.)
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Keep up the good work :)
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Looks like the Restore Trust are currently getting a good kicking from the Good Law Project:
https://goodlawproject.org/update/success-restore-trust-caves-in-to-legal-challenge/
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Restore are trying yet another takeover, GB News are getting in on the act, and Stewart Lee's got opinions:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/01/save-the-national-trust-gb-news-restore-trust-vote-agm
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Log in here
https://secure.cesvotes.com/V3-2-0/nt23/en/login?bbp=54540&x=-1
Easy to vote for the Trust’s preferred candidates, or read through the statements and select your own.
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Log in here
https://secure.cesvotes.com/V3-2-0/nt23/en/login?bbp=54540&x=-1
Easy to vote for the Trust’s preferred candidates, or read through the statements and select your own.
Just a bump for this, just done it and it took 30 seconds
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Another bump and a bit of Stewart Lee on Restore Trust not being very.. trustworthy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/01/save-the-national-trust-gb-news-restore-trust-vote-agm
Vote here:
https://secure.cesvotes.com/V3-2-0/nt23/en/login?bbp=54540&x=-1
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"Restore Trust" trounced in annual elections, again failing to win a single position.
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Love to see it!
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Yeah. Great news. Thanks Andy.
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Latest Stewart Lee reminder on the Tufton Street funded scum in Restore Trust.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/28/national-trust-captured-by-well-funded-fake-grassroots-group-restore-trust
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Is it worth splitting this into a designated Restore Trust thread? P
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Enjoying Stewart Lee's absolute refusal to let go of this subject:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/07/the-right-is-as-stale-as-its-woke-national-trust-scones-gambit
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This:
But why does Restore Trust want control of the National Trust so badly? Is it about the properties? The land? Or can it really be that Legatum’s Dubai-based backers just really love scones made with butter? I think we should be told.
is an excellent question. Why the NT, exactly?
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I suppose it's because of its role in preserving and protecting national heritage. Its work, and the histories of many of the properties it owns, inevitably places it at the heart of current history wars. The relatively recent decision to, in some cases, present more challenging, previously overlooked histories has probably also challenged identities that some people hold dear. I'm sure the membership skews heavily middle-class, white, and older (this isn't a dig, I was a member for years). Going to visit National Trust properties at the weekend is something "people like us" do. It was cozy. See a nice house, have a cream tea, buy some pot pourri.
But overwhelmingly, the outrage is driven not by the membership but by dark money and the reason there is surely pretty simple: as a membership organization (rather than a government body) it is inherently vulnerable to takeover/capture. That Restore Trust has singularly failed to do that so far is a testament to the membership.
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Thanks for the reply. We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.
The Tufton Street agenda appears the very cliche of culture war nostalgia and I can see the power of capturing an organisation as large and respected as NT. I can’t help but wonder if that’s the limit of their objectives. The Trust holds a huge amount of property. I wonder what they would like to do with it, given an opportunity. There’s a lot of money there.
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I was wondering whether it might be a battle between "elite types". It isn't really about the National Trust in itself. Rather it is theatrics to get news time to try and influence wider public sentiment.
In the UK elites of various sorts grab a disproportionate amount of power and privilege. That depends on the acquiescence of the wider public. My impression is that the whole "culture wars" thing is an attempt by right-wing-reactionary elites to wrest control from "woke" elites by trying to discredit them in the eyes of the wider public.
To me the take home message is that it is absolutely crucial that any attempt at progressive politics makes sure it doesn't just have privileged and affluent membership and influence. If progressive politics were genuinely from and empowering people from across society -rather than supposedly being "for" them- then divide and rule tactics from the right would pose little danger.
I'm happy to be corrected about this.
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Thanks for the reply. We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.
The Tufton Street agenda appears the very cliche of culture war nostalgia and I can see the power of capturing an organisation as large and respected as NT. I can’t help but wonder if that’s the limit of their objectives. The Trust holds a huge amount of property. I wonder what they would like to do with it, given an opportunity. There’s a lot of money there.
What do you think they would like to do with it?
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This:
But why does Restore Trust want control of the National Trust so badly? Is it about the properties? The land? Or can it really be that Legatum’s Dubai-based backers just really love scones made with butter? I think we should be told.
is an excellent question. Why the NT, exactly?
I suspect it's less to do with the National Trust itself, and more about using it as a battleground for performative culture wars aimed at a wider audience.
Lots of Daily Mail or Telegraph readers who may not actually be National Trust members themselves but are susceptible to the idea that the Heritage Of The Nation is being trampled on by these "woke" types who want to drag it down, etc., and these heroic people at Restore Trust are trying to save the NT from the tofu-eating wokerati who have infiltrated it to forcibly veganize its scones.
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Thanks for the reply. We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.
The Tufton Street agenda appears the very cliche of culture war nostalgia and I can see the power of capturing an organisation as large and respected as NT. I can’t help but wonder if that’s the limit of their objectives. The Trust holds a huge amount of property. I wonder what they would like to do with it, given an opportunity. There’s a lot of money there.
What do you think they would like to do with it?
No idea mate, just find their relentless pursuit of the NT odd. Perhaps the performative platform it might provide is enough.