UKBouldering.com
places to visit => uk and eire => Topic started by: andy_e on July 30, 2020, 09:18:23 am
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It seems like Skye bouldering hasn't really developed much in the 12 years since I first looked at the bouldering during my undergrad mapping. In those days I heard tales of Carn Liath scattered with thousands of boulders, hints of coires littered with glacial debris, seaside boulder tumbles where you can get a first ascent just by sneezing...
But still it looks like Skye is massively underdeveloped, unless I'm missing something. The recent guide to Carn Liath still contains scant details of a few tantalising blocs. The Cuillin's cast-offs near Glen Brittle are well established. But where are the other areas, and why are there so few details about them?
I'm off to Skye for a month on Saturday, so I'm keen to check out some places, take a stiff brush and do some development. Anybody going to be around? Any tip-offs or details/topos would be greatly appreciated...
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I'm off to Mull on Sat for a week. Planning to be near Skye for a week after that. On family hol but might be able to meet up for a day. I have some exceedingly good looking blocks to try out on Skye, which I spotted last year but didn't have chance to climb on.
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I think it was Fultonius's mate (Ally's Pally!) who wrote the original guide, he might know what the latest info is.
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I've developed around 60problems with Caff, Adam, Ben and Ray on our trips up Coruisk, all without a pad. Hardest one somewhere around 7C+ish but most are in the sixes and low 7's. There are boulders all round Coruisk which have nice flat access walks and mostly nice gabbro which hardly needs cleaning (hence the high evening problem tickage). It's just not been worth writing them up with the current scottish guide situation and general lack of umph up there. Writing stuff up clearly is also a talent and requires time. I'd thoroughly recommend an overnight trip in there on the boat and camping near a cluster at the far end of the loch. Lots of hard stuff to do there without having to slog up the hills. If you take some Binos the lighter gabbro is the best for bouldering, the dark purply boulders tend to be a bit rough for hard problems.
Carn Liath and Talisker bay look well worth a sniff about.
Scotland is woefully understaffed for bouldering development, exciting for those who go though.
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Aye, the old protagonists don't really boulder much anymore. I'll ping a few messages round and see if anyone's still active. I think the Lie O'conner situation knocked the wind out of the sails (as did the main developer/guide writer moving to Glasgow for 10 years).
When are you up?
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For the uninitiated. What’s the current Scottish guide situation’?
And wouldn’t writing up areas that have started to be developed improve the umph? Otherwise nobody knows about them. I appreciate it takes time but a simple pdf definitely encourages visits. My brothers Sheigra guide resulted in a few more people going and adding lines. It’s now been added in the guide, on ukc etc. Definitely helps get an area established.
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Agree with JamieG on this one.
PDF's and better UKC guides do encourage traffic{ Northwest Outdoors, Ted's guide to Primrose and Cummingston and Robbie's guide to Sheigra } . Just needs someone with enough time and drive to document it.
A larger question might be- "Should we"?
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www.scottishclimbs.com was a good place for providing information and the wiki worked well with people updating information live, but the site developers lost interest especially with the constant spam attacks, so it got locked and parked. I put most of the Glen Clova info on there, and the updates seemed to work well, apart from some people deciding they didn't like problem names and changing them completely.
A lot of local recent developments are in NE Outcrops files section on facebook, but it's hard to keep track of what's happening outside your local area, maybe an equivalent to peakbouldering.info is needed? I think UKC is a less than ideal repository, do to the restrictive layout, and limitations of providing reasonable topos or maps of areas.
I've got a word version of recent stuff I've done locally, just need to add some photos sometime, and wrap up the projects!
As far as the "should we" question, I think it should be done as a matter of course, to allow people to know what's good where, as well as preventing retroclaiming etc. There is so little info about that it's hard to get an idea of what is worth travelling for.
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Agree with JamieG on this one.
PDF's and better UKC guides do encourage traffic{ Northwest Outdoors, Ted's guide to Primrose and Cummingston and Robbie's guide to Sheigra } . Just needs someone with enough time and drive to document it.
A larger question might be- "Should we"?
If anyone one has the time and inclination I can see no reason why the answer would be no.
Excess visitor pressure seems highly unlikely. There's so much still to do that you could hardly argue that documentation is robbing people of the chance to explore uncharted ground. What other counter arguments are there?
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I would almost flip that last bit Bonjoy. I think good documentation actually encourages exploration, if you want to do a few first ascents. Since you know which areas, boulders and lines have been developed and climbed. Therefore are less worried about everything getting retro-claimed.
I seriously doubt any of the Scottish venues are in danger of over exposure and too much climber pressure. The number of local boulderers is pretty thin on the ground. And most visits come from people having a trip to the area for a week or two. But the rest of the time I imagine most venues are totally deserted.
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Indeed, in fact a bit more traffic would benefit most places, especially if people don't mind helping out with a bit of a scrub, rather than leaving comments like "the top could do with a clean" as though there is cleaning staff awaiting your instruction.
Off the top of my head, i expect it's only Dumby, Boltsheugh, Torridon and Portlethen where i have ever bumped into other boulderers.
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For the uninitiated. What’s the current Scottish guide situation’?
The latest guide (Boulder Scotland) has Coire Lagan and Carn Liath in, but there's very few problems described at Carn Liath.
When are you up?
Literally the whole of August!
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I've developed around 60problems with Caff, Adam, Ben and Ray on our trips up Coruisk, all without a pad. Hardest one somewhere around 7C+ish but most are in the sixes and low 7's. There are boulders all round Coruisk which have nice flat access walks and mostly nice gabbro which hardly needs cleaning (hence the high evening problem tickage). It's just not been worth writing them up with the current scottish guide situation and general lack of umph up there. Writing stuff up clearly is also a talent and requires time. I'd thoroughly recommend an overnight trip in there on the boat and camping near a cluster at the far end of the loch. Lots of hard stuff to do there without having to slog up the hills. If you take some Binos the lighter gabbro is the best for bouldering, the dark purply boulders tend to be a bit rough for hard problems.
thanks for this info Dan, sounds like exactly the sort of place I'm after (especially now I just bought a mountain bike...) and the sort of thing that I think would benefit from a guide. Let's face it, it's not going to become overcrowded, but a few notes would make it a really special place for the dedicated to visit!
I think Torridon is the prime example of a "big" Scottish area, when it went big a few years ago, people were worried it might get trashed, but it's never actually that busy, is fantastic and accessible, and well documented and clean. If Carn Liath is as big as people say, then it could be the "next Torridon", attracting people specifically to boulder there on trips, but it'll never really get that busy will it?
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Coruisk is going to be a little more difficult for the average boulderer to access than the Celtic Jumble!
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Midge levels similar though!
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Interesting discussion. I'd agree with Andy that Torridon isn't yet trashed but there's no question that since the guide and it going 'big' you can start to see wear and tear creeping in. Finger tape, more worn paths, donkey lines, cretins playing music etc. Nothing as bad as the average Peak venue (which I'm always dismayed by) but I guess we just have to be careful what we wish for.
I hope Rich wont mind me saying that seeing these changes was part of the reason he started going less.
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I thinks its likely to change in the next few years. A lot more boulderers and its easier than ever to document stuff. But it still takes lots of time. And a lot of days hunting and scrubbing are climbing days lost… Ive prodded the SMC about starting to record boulders but got little response and cant change things from within as I haven’t walked up enough large rounded hills to qualify for membership. Something like Unknown Stones would be great with lots of folk uploading smaller pdf guides. A lot more feasible than a printed guide.
Agree that documenting encourages more climbing, cleaning and further exploring. An obvious one would be an updated guide to Glen Nevis for anyone local on here? Theres loads more giants hidden in the glen and a topo revival might be what spurs that on. On the other hand if I was local I wouldn’t want to be shouting about anything until Id had a good shot first!
On the popularity note, I was chatting to the couple who own the house where you park for erraid and they’ve seen a considerable rise in the number of climbers and large student groups piling over to island since the lovely pink walls were published in Latters guides. Pretty photos and insta posts make ripples. To the point where they don’t want any of the rock further south of erraid published (a large SSSI I think?). So its not entirely a moot point. Torridon is another example like Gaz says. But maybe more documented areas might help spread the load?
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Documenting stuff is an effort but one that is much reduced if you go in knowing that you're going to try and document something at the end of it. Taking photos for topos and writing notes as you go along is essential really, otherwise you end up having to make trips to places to sort all this stuff out at a time when you want to visit other venues. In lieu of any other database, I'd whack stuff onto UKC as the de facto standard for recording stuff at the moment. Good quality text descriptions of the boulders and problems, along with maybe a a Google My Maps effort showing which boulders are which will be enough to show what the current state of development is and allow other people to focus their efforts on repeating stuff or looking for new stuff according to their preference - it's really frustrating to put time into "developing" something to find that someone has done it before but not bothered to record it until they can record their work as a retro-claim.
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I thinks its likely to change in the next few years. A lot more boulderers and its easier than ever to document stuff. But it still takes lots of time. And a lot of days hunting and scrubbing are climbing days lost… Ive prodded the SMC about starting to record boulders but got little response and cant change things from within as I haven’t walked up enough large rounded hills to qualify for membership. Something like Unknown Stones would be great with lots of folk uploading smaller pdf guides. A lot more feasible than a printed guide.
Agree that documenting encourages more climbing, cleaning and further exploring. An obvious one would be an updated guide to Glen Nevis for anyone local on here? Theres loads more giants hidden in the glen and a topo revival might be what spurs that on. On the other hand if I was local I wouldn’t want to be shouting about anything until Id had a good shot first!
On the popularity note, I was chatting to the couple who own the house where you park for erraid and they’ve seen a considerable rise in the number of climbers and large student groups piling over to island since the lovely pink walls were published in Latters guides. Pretty photos and insta posts make ripples. To the point where they don’t want any of the rock further south of erraid published (a large SSSI I think?). So its not entirely a moot point. Torridon is another example like Gaz says. But maybe more documented areas might help spread the load?
Have you spoken to Rob Lovell? He is in charge of their guidebook stuff and is a Young Person who like things like :o Sport Climbing :o
I'd be surprised if he was against the documentation of bouldering as part of the SMC's work. If they pass up the chance to do it then some Unknown Stones type effort will probably spring up (Unknown Stones was a piece of piss to create but needs some work now that it's become so big and unwieldy) or a Greg Chapman will spring from the heather.
Clubs like the CC and SMC often boast of their being the true keepers of The Definitive Record which just isn't true anymore, particularly if they haven't got involved with recording bouldering development which has been and will continue to be the biggest growth area in climbing. I mean. The damage has already been done there from the clubs' point of view. Lakes bouldering, Peak bouldering, Welsh bouldering etc etc have all been documented away from the clubs - though I suspect it's all just a product of who's doing the development: most people are not involved in clubs now.
Sorry. I've rambled horribly.
Documenting the Skye stuff isn't going to damage the rock. It's still miles and miles from most places and it's made of fucking gabbro. Some people claim to go through a pair of approach shoes in one Cuillin traverse and some punters even recommend wearing gardening gloves! It's the climbers' skin I worry for.
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Interesting discussion. I'd agree with Andy that Torridon isn't yet trashed but there's no question that since the guide and it going 'big' you can start to see wear and tear creeping in. Finger tape, more worn paths, donkey lines, cretins playing music etc. Nothing as bad as the average Peak venue (which I'm always dismayed by) but I guess we just have to be careful what we wish for.
I hope Rich wont mind me saying that seeing these changes was part of the reason he started going less.
I posed the question for exactly this conversation.
I started out years ago firmly believing that everything should be named topo'd and graded as it was bloody hard work developing and it means a great deal to the individuals involved.
I never quite understood Richie's lack of interest in that side of things and his continuing worry over it{Torridon Guide}.
I get it Now.
For me projects and problems are about Your relationship and experience with them over time and the place that surrounds that microcosm.
I am still finding my way with this but more and more i am heading in the direction of quiet climbing without the need for publication. The idea of nature creeping gradually back and obscuring my old victories and failures so the next and subsequent generations can find and discover those lines in order to fight the good fight afresh i find really appealing.
Just a thought anyway.
Side note- I use UKC to post up the various wee Highland areas i have developed, its NOT ideal but its free.
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I think I lie somewhere in the middle, I don't think every boulder problem needs a name because most of the problems I've done never had names until recently, and I don't think there needs to be exhaustive documentation of every eliminate (except at Almscliff). But what is great is when there's a tantalising glimpse, a photo and some problems documented at a smaller venue, or a good idea of the scope at a larger venue, so that interest is piqued and guides and knowledge slowly become more developed. There's a fine line between underdevelopment and overdevelopment though...
I think, as both Dan and Will have alluded to, it's all too easy to make a shit guide that frustrates, and very difficult to make a guide with clear instructions, maps and diagrams, which help you avoid stumbling around boggy, bracken-filled hillslopes cursing at inanimate objects. But a lot of places on Skye have absolutely nothing. There's a certain charm to that, but it just shocks me how little things have moved forwards there in the past 15 years.
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I think I'm definitely more towards the documented side of the spectrum but I think it depends on whether you're time-rich or time-poor. Very jealous of your impending trip Andy...
My bouldering exploits in Scotland have all been on roadtrips so each visit to an area was max a day or two. The first one was a mix of trad, sport and bouldering but if there had been a larger 'holy grail' venue documented, that would have definitely altered our itinerary. The second one was a non-climbing roadtrip (where I went to Skye). The only bouldering I did was a half-day on Malc's Arete, I wasn't as psyched on the Brittle boulders but maybe that was due to the reduced Instagram coverage...
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The truth of the matter is that there just aren't many people bouldering up here in the Highlands, and even fewer on Skye specifically. Sure, we get people up on trips going to the honeypots, but the number of active locals is tiny. And on average its locals that have the time and knowledge needed to develop stuff. Up here bouldering is still very much a fringe activity relative to trad and even sport climbing, whereas I get the feeling that elsewhere bouldering is perhaps equally popular. I suspect this is partly because there aren't any decent modern style bouldering walls in the Highlands.
For this reason I've not yet made much of an effort to properly write up lots of the stuff I've done locally because there's hardly anyone around that's likely to want to find it.
Coincidentally, after recently finishing a project I decided it deserves being known about so I'm currently trying to write up a load of my stuff to go on the North West Outdoors blog (the outdoor shop in Ullapool, check it out) but finding the time to do it justice is proving tricky (kids, innit).
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Yeah fair enough Gaz, finding the time must be tricky! Though I must encourage you to write up stuff local to you as I've a friend who's just moved to the Inverness area and will possibly be over that way a bit!
It's a vicious cycle, nobody boulders so nobody develops so nobody visits to boulder so nobody develops so nobody boulders...
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Yeah, chicken and egg.
I'll get round to it eventually.
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I think the boulders still boulder, it's just a question of where.
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Have you spoken to Rob Lovell? He is in charge of their guidebook stuff and is a Young Person who like things like :o Sport Climbing :o
No I havnt talked to Rob. Perhapse im being unfair. I agree though that if they intend to stay the defacto archivists of scottish climbing they need to think about including bouldering and doing a decent job of it. I dont know if they will. I also dont know if id want their new pals churning out clean soulless topos for every bouldering spot :sick:...
I suspect this is partly because there aren't any decent modern style bouldering walls in the Highlands.
3 wise monkeys has been around a few years and is well stowed out most nights, but doesnt seem to have led to many more getting out to glen Tarbet and the likes nearby. They actually tried their own mapping thing but it kind of fizzled out too... https://blog.threewisemonkeysclimbing.com/blog/lochaber-bouldering-map
Regarding Skye I spent a day exploring around Talisker bay and remember a really good lloking boulder in the jumble to the north. probs more too. Def worth an afternoon with a pad. Also ran up to the ones above the talisker road. They were more the usual scottish fare: dripping heather bunnets, bogs and tussocks, and gaping chasms between heather. Crossed off the list. I did meet a big one eyed ginger tom who was quite friendly which was odd as the farm was a few miles away at least :shrug:
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I suspect this is partly because there aren't any decent modern style bouldering walls in the Highlands.
3 wise monkeys has been around a few years and is well stowed out most nights, but doesnt seem to have led to many more getting out to glen Tarbet and the likes nearby.
He said decent modern bouldering walls, not 90’s throwbacks 😄
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Everyone seems to agree its woefully under staffed up north. All the rock and none of the people. Peace and quiet comes with its downsides for fast info off the ground.
I went up coruisk on a trad/caff following trip and just bouldered away the evenings and a morning on the first trip and a couple of evenings on the second trip when the grit aficionados weren't upto the slab tekkers on one of the nice blank gabbro slabs ::) Caff has some pics in an old blog and i've popped one or two on Flickr. O'connor where art thou" is a great 7B arete by the path on the south side near to the base of the dubh ridge.
As it was accidental bouldering whilst tradding i didn't take any pics for documenting the faces and half due to busy life/work/kids and half due to the peace and quiet in the valley have left it. Personally i don't retro claim stuff i forget to write up before it gets claimed as i think the admin is half the battle.
Get the boat in if you go as the bike access is crap. Would be worth taking the bike on Raasay though and cycling the east side. It's not too pricey and adds to the uniqueness.
Thanks for that 3WM info Alex, that impossible overhang in glen nevis looks very possible to me, especially the right arete.
Good work on the new arete at Tarvie Gaz, glad to see you got back to that. Do you reckon the wall right of the 6a would go?
Torridon has defo lost a bit of its magic at the Jumble and there has been alot of path work since my last visit. No bad thing really. The North coast 500 is whats really changing the area IMO, its turning the nicest part of the UK into a gumball style backdrop to whizz by. That and most of the people who benefit are cafe and BandB owners who moved up there for the peace and quiet so it makes them more stressed.
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He said decent modern bouldering walls, not 90’s throwbacks 😄
I wasn't going to say anything, but yeah...
I've been a few times and it's fine although a bit of a sweat box in summer, but it ain't no TCA/Works etc.
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The North coast 500 is whats really changing the area IMO, its turning the nicest part of the UK into a gumball style backdrop to whizz by. That and most of the people who benefit are cafe and BandB owners who moved up there for the peace and quiet so it makes them more stressed.
100% this, I was pretty shocked how bad it was last time we went up, and as we were staying round on Applecross, every drive was stressful having to pull in for shed driving bellends who had no idea what a passing place was for.
Next trip to the NW will be planned to be off that route!
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Thanks for that 3WM info Alex, that impossible overhang in glen nevis looks very possible to me, especially the right arete.
Its a really impressive boulder. Theres another mammoth boulder back there too, but you might need your jungle gear.
He said decent modern bouldering walls, not 90’s throwbacks 😄
I wasn't going to say anything, but yeah...
I've been a few times and it's fine although a bit of a sweat box in summer, but it ain't no TCA/Works etc.
Hmm must be out of touch. Its like new tokyo compared to the Atlantis Cube.
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most of the people who benefit are cafe and BandB owners who moved up there for the peace and quiet so it makes them more stressed.
Unfortunately I heard that that isn't even true. Locals complained that they weren't seeing much benefit since everyone just stocks up at the big supermarkets in places like Inverness. So all the locals are getting is rammed roads. Shame since the NW really is (in my highly biased opinion) the best part of the whole UK.
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Certainly some of the best rock, surf and scenery. Shame about the fucking midges.
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But the secret is it the weather is better outside midge season...
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Yup midge is bad :devil-smiley:. But wait till September and they bugger off leaving cooler temps and the best bouldering and scenery in the Country :great:
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To be honest, I don’t think they’re as bad in the NW as further south. Places like Loch Lomond are terrible. You just need to stick to the coast unless there’s a decent wind.
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But the secret is it the weather is better outside midge season...
And the surf.
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Have you spoken to Rob Lovell? He is in charge of their guidebook stuff and is a Young Person who like things like :o Sport Climbing :o
I’ve drawn Rob’s attention to this thread via a mutual friend. Or you could speak to him at Kilnsey!
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So Andy, did you do a shit load of development?
Your shameful lack of commitment to social media leaves us all in the dark so I feel I have no option but to hassle you publicly ;D
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Sorry, I got distracted by mountain plodding. I did a nice (probably) new traverse called Obscene Kleftiko at a coastal venue that Bonjoy told me about. Other than that, I just stuck to the beaten track and went up to Coire Lagan area and over to Kishorn/Torridon a fair bit!
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A Carn Liath 7C+ went up last month: https://www.instagram.com/p/CE4IJiMjwXW/. Looks like a great wall.
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looks ace. bet you could spend a week there and never find it :)
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Great to see some harder routes in the North-west.
For what its worth (skimming this thread as a whole), I love it when people publicise new areas or problems in Scotland, be that through topos/guides, photos or videos. Whilst sitting forlorn in my dank little Manchester house, I need something to aspire to: particularly at the moment.
I do however find the notion of 'keeping an area unspoiled' a little difficult to stomach. Firstly, you only need to see Dave MacLeod's recent video of Glen Pean to know that there is endless rock in Scotland for those who want to find the unexplored. Or my own exploits at Sheigra, where you just need to walk 500m further north to find yet another huge jumble of unclimbed boulders. For me, the problem with this sort of rhetoric is that it is sometimes feels like a thinly veiled excuse for 'keeping it for myself'. When I first created my Sheigra guide, I was so unbelievable stoked that others had visited and enjoyed it like I had. Even when Mike Adams climbed that amazing arete I had been eyeing up and was too weak to climb, this just inspired me to go back and try harder.
So when I see people like Rob Thomas putting up cool problems at the Barry Valley (and really helpful little topos on UKC), I'm just desperate to try them out and hopefully find some new ones of my own. In short, please don't keep areas quiet but share them (even if you have projects still to do) so this little sad Scot can keep dreaming whilst the world implodes!
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Great to see some harder routes in the North-west.
For what its worth (skimming this thread as a whole), I love it when people publicise new areas or problems in Scotland, be that through topos/guides, photos or videos. Whilst sitting forlorn in my dank little Manchester house, I need something to aspire to: particularly at the moment.
I do however find the notion of 'keeping an area unspoiled' a little difficult to stomach. Firstly, you only need to see Dave MacLeod's recent video of Glen Pean to know that there is endless rock in Scotland for those who want to find the unexplored. Or my own exploits at Sheigra, where you just need to walk 500m further north to find yet another huge jumble of unclimbed boulders. For me, the problem with this sort of rhetoric is that it is sometimes feels like a thinly veiled excuse for 'keeping it for myself'. When I first created my Sheigra guide, I was so unbelievable stoked that others had visited and enjoyed it like I had. Even when Mike Adams climbed that amazing arete I had been eyeing up and was too weak to climb, this just inspired me to go back and try harder.
So when I see people like Rob Thomas putting up cool problems at the Barry Valley (and really helpful little topos on UKC), I'm just desperate to try them out and hopefully find some new ones of my own. In short, please don't keep areas quiet but share them (even if you have projects still to do) so this little sad Scot can keep dreaming whilst the world implodes!
Hey Robbie
Thanks for the shout out, how’s you and the family?
I am currently not climbing due to some serious back issues unfortunately.
Have booked a cottage up by Polin beach for a week in early November ( hopefully I make it ). If the weather holds I will definitely be checking out the usual stuff plus more of your problems.
All the areas I have developed are on UKC with Topo’s, I am currently being persuaded to do a Strathnairn guide....I am swithering.
The question of Scottish areas being developed or Not is an interesting one. I think it treads the same path as basic conservation or environmental impact.
I bumped into Gaz M and both Chris H and Chris Card in the same week over in Torridon. We all mentioned that we had never seen the Highlands so busy or seen so many climbers in and around the Ship boulder.
No judgment but the numbers were eye opening.
Maybe some of the popular easy walk in locations in Scotland have naturally become honeypots and that’s okay, I suppose.
Thank goodness this will Never happen up in Sheigra.
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My best bouldering days have come from following up obscure stuff documented by Highland locals/expats, so I’m really appreciative of new esoterica being recorded.
I’ve added some recent lower-grade Strathnairn things on the new problems thread.
Rob – sorry to hear you’re injured, all the best with that!
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The question of Scottish areas being developed or Not is an interesting one. I think it treads the same path as basic conservation or environmental impact.
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It does indeed. But let's not forget that most of the highlands has been extensively managed for a very long time (particularly in terms of sheep farming, shooting and forestry). We've already made an enormous environmental impact, the question is how we might move forwards. Hopefully when people visit these stunning areas they are impressed enough to think twice about leaving litter/fingertape/tick marks etc. But maybe I'm overly optimistic... :-\
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Great to see some harder routes in the North-west.
For what its worth (skimming this thread as a whole), I love it when people publicise new areas or problems in Scotland, be that through topos/guides, photos or videos. Whilst sitting forlorn in my dank little Manchester house, I need something to aspire to: particularly at the moment.
I do however find the notion of 'keeping an area unspoiled' a little difficult to stomach. Firstly, you only need to see Dave MacLeod's recent video of Glen Pean to know that there is endless rock in Scotland for those who want to find the unexplored. Or my own exploits at Sheigra, where you just need to walk 500m further north to find yet another huge jumble of unclimbed boulders. For me, the problem with this sort of rhetoric is that it is sometimes feels like a thinly veiled excuse for 'keeping it for myself'. When I first created my Sheigra guide, I was so unbelievable stoked that others had visited and enjoyed it like I had. Even when Mike Adams climbed that amazing arete I had been eyeing up and was too weak to climb, this just inspired me to go back and try harder.
So when I see people like Rob Thomas putting up cool problems at the Barry Valley (and really helpful little topos on UKC), I'm just desperate to try them out and hopefully find some new ones of my own. In short, please don't keep areas quiet but share them (even if you have projects still to do) so this little sad Scot can keep dreaming whilst the world implodes!
I agree with you entirely on this.
New areas take the strain off old areas anyway.
As a rule Scottish areas even vaguely off the beaten track tend too suffer from too little traffic not too much.
The fact that the most popular roadside boulder in Scotland is busy is not an argument to keep new areas a secret. No more than Stanage being popular is a reason to keep quite about Chossy Hollow West.
The only time I'd ever consider keeping quiet about a new area is if it's shit or the access is so fragile that any amount of visitors would be a disaster.
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Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.
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Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.
Oh thanks Chris, I will certainly check it out.
Is there a Topo anywhere or is it just a go/climb/enjoy kind of thing?
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The question of Scottish areas being developed or Not is an interesting one. I think it treads the same path as basic conservation or environmental impact.
It does indeed. But let's not forget that most of the highlands has been extensively managed for a very long time (particularly in terms of sheep farming, shooting and forestry). We've already made an enormous environmental impact, the question is how we might move forwards. Hopefully when people visit these stunning areas they are impressed enough to think twice about leaving litter/fingertape/tick marks etc. But maybe I'm overly optimistic... :-\
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Agreed about the historic management and i also hope your optimism is rewarded.
My fellow developer has a differing view re unspoilt/well used- Stu reckons that if you make the effort to find, clean and climb new lines in new areas its up to other people to find them, as he says "The Rocks always been there, i don't own it, get off your arse and look for it".
For him i think its less about the environmental impact and more about the pioneering spirit.
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Interesting discussion. I'd agree with all that writing up and sharing new developments is a good thing. Ive loved seeing a few places that I've scrubbed and shared starting to get attention by others. I've also come across it the other way when I've done something I thought was new only to be told it was done before but no one could be bothered writing it up. That somehow cheapened my experience.
The bit that I find annoying is not having some sort of common place in which to share this info. Once there was Scottish Climbs and John Watson's blog but now it's scattered all over the internet and hard to keep track of. Putting stuff on UKC does kind of work, but it somehow feels like a very soulless way of sharing info, with little room for putting any context to a place and the developments there. Perhaps I'm just a hippie.
I'm certainly not volunteering myself to set up some kind of scottish bouldering wiki, but if anyone else did I'd be happy to be involved in moderating for certain areas.
As for negative impacts from too many climbers, that's a tricky one. It's certainly the case that the honeypots are starting to show wear and tear. But I think the genie is out of the bottle. The major roadside venues have mostly been developed and written up. Most of the new stuff that's being developed or is yet to be developed is a bit more 'niche' (i.e. long approaches) and will only ever attract a small number of dedicated boulderers.
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My fellow developer has a differing view re unspoilt/well used- Stu reckons that if you make the effort to find, clean and climb new lines in new areas its up to other people to find them, as he says "The Rocks always been there, i don't own it, get off your arse and look for it".
For him i think its less about the environmental impact and more about the pioneering spirit.
This is fine, so long he doesn't consider what he's doing as 'development' and he doesn't expect to name or claim things. Out of interest, what does he do when people find and climb these lines? Does he retro-claim? Is this one problem at a time, as and when they are reclimbed, or does he reveal whole areas when one problem is rediscovered?
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As for negative impacts from too many climbers, that's a tricky one. It's certainly the case that the honeypots are starting to show wear and tear. But I think the genie is out of the bottle. The major roadside venues have mostly been developed and written up. Most of the new stuff that's being developed or is yet to be developed is a bit more 'niche' (i.e. long approaches) and will only ever attract a small number of dedicated boulderers.
From long experience developing in a very busy and convenient area I'd say two things:
Never underestimate how lazy and unimaginative most climbers are.
Convenience will always trump all other merits.
No matter how good your new area is, if it isn't convenient it will never be over popular. You'll be lucky to get enough traffic to keep a few problems clean and paths navigable. You might get a flurry of activity when new stuff pops up on social media, or in a new guide. In the longer term it's all about the convenience.
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Yeah, that was my point. Guess it's even more relevant up here in the Highlands where popular roadside venues must only get a fraction of the visitors that areas further south must get.
It's partly this that's made me slow to write up some of my own new stuff, because in all honesty I can't imagine anyone else ever making the effort to find, re-clean and climb.
EDIT: That's not say that I won't write it up, just that I know there's no hurry!
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I always appreciate the remote areas being written up. We go on holiday to Scotland a lot and where we go has often got more to do with other activities than climbing, so it's nice to know of anything available in the area, if it's fairly remote and low convenience.
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I've thrown in the towel with Facebook, and UKC doesn't provide the best technology to update use-generated content.
In this day and age, is there not a simple database driven user-uploadable topo program?
Any smart phone now has the ability to edit a photo with a vector line on a new layer. How hard could it be to upload a photo, draw a line, pin it on a google maps location, add some description (name, grade, any rules etc.) and link that to the drawn line. If there's an existing photo, click "add new problem", draw line, add details.
Facebook is a massive pile of shite but has taken over our data, and killed a lot of forums. Instabang is just as bad. We need easy to use, app based, user-generated topos.
Any takers?
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In this day and age, is there not a simple database driven user-uploadable topo program?
Any smart phone now has the ability to edit a photo with a vector line on a new layer. How hard could it be to upload a photo, draw a line, pin it on a google maps location, add some description (name, grade, any rules etc.) and link that to the drawn line. If there's an existing photo, click "add new problem", draw line, add details.
Facebook is a massive pile of shite but has taken over our data, and killed a lot of forums. Instabang is just as bad. We need easy to use, app based, user-generated topos.
Any takers?
This is pretty much what 27 Crags does I think.
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Interesting discussion. I'd agree with all that writing up and sharing new developments is a good thing. Ive loved seeing a few places that I've scrubbed and shared starting to get attention by others. I've also come across it the other way when I've done something I thought was new only to be told it was done before but no one could be bothered writing it up. That somehow cheapened my experience.
The bit that I find annoying is not having some sort of common place in which to share this info. Once there was Scottish Climbs and John Watson's blog but now it's scattered all over the internet and hard to keep track of. Putting stuff on UKC does kind of work, but it somehow feels like a very soulless way of sharing info, with little room for putting any context to a place and the developments there. Perhaps I'm just a hippie.
I'm certainly not volunteering myself to set up some kind of scottish bouldering wiki, but if anyone else did I'd be happy to be involved in moderating for certain areas.
As for negative impacts from too many climbers, that's a tricky one. It's certainly the case that the honeypots are starting to show wear and tear. But I think the genie is out of the bottle. The major roadside venues have mostly been developed and written up. Most of the new stuff that's being developed or is yet to be developed is a bit more 'niche' (i.e. long approaches) and will only ever attract a small number of dedicated boulderers.
Sorry Gaz if i have ever been responsible for any disappointment re Not writing things up.
Couldn't agree more about having an up to date website for the Highlands/Scotland, i looked into doing a version of Bleau.info up here but i don't have the cash,time or skill to pull it off but like you i would be more than happy to volunteer my time to moderate for my random NW areas and Strathnairn.
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My fellow developer has a differing view re unspoilt/well used- Stu reckons that if you make the effort to find, clean and climb new lines in new areas its up to other people to find them, as he says "The Rocks always been there, i don't own it, get off your arse and look for it".
For him i think its less about the environmental impact and more about the pioneering spirit.
This is fine, so long he doesn't consider what he's doing as 'development' and he doesn't expect to name or claim things. Out of interest, what does he do when people find and climb these lines? Does he retro-claim? Is this one problem at a time, as and when they are reclimbed, or does he reveal whole areas when one problem is rediscovered?
Nah Stu wouldn't write anything up{i do that} and i would say he sees himself as exploratory boulderer rather than a developer. He does name problems but that's mainly so we can discuss them. I doubt he would retro claim anything, it's Not happened up to now but you would have to ask him how he would deal with it.
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Sorry Gaz if i have ever been responsible for any disappointment re Not writing things up.
Ha! I wasn't writing that with you in mind, so don't worry! I think there were a few things out the back at Inchbae that you'd done before, but I think I knew that before I actually climbed them.
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I did wonder about starting a thread called "Scottish Hings" where all the new problems are collated/linked to threads on here/instagram/other bits of random reporting. Wouldn't be too hard to keep up to date and could be a good resource to keep track of new problems, like Max's new stuff on the coast round here.
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In this day and age, is there not a simple database driven user-uploadable topo program?
Any smart phone now has the ability to edit a photo with a vector line on a new layer. How hard could it be to upload a photo, draw a line, pin it on a google maps location, add some description (name, grade, any rules etc.) and link that to the drawn line. If there's an existing photo, click "add new problem", draw line, add details.
Facebook is a massive pile of shite but has taken over our data, and killed a lot of forums. Instabang is just as bad. We need easy to use, app based, user-generated topos.
Any takers?
This is pretty much what 27 Crags does I think.
Ah right, never seen the topos on that as I think you need to pay to get the basic ones. Something along those lines I guess.
What kickback do you get on 27Crags for uploading content? I feel that user generated content should give some form of credit for the monthly app dues...
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Just signed up to 27 Crags to see what the craic is.
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Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.
Oh thanks Chris, I will certainly check it out.
Is there a Topo anywhere or is it just a go/climb/enjoy kind of thing?
Go climb, enjoy, nothing hard just a few moves and drop off onto perfect white sand. IIRC (it was about 11 years ago) there may have been some harder looking stuff at the seaward end, but would need a proper clean up. If you think it's worthy of writing up, I'm not bothered about claiming anything.
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I'm certainly not volunteering myself to set up some kind of scottish bouldering wiki, but if anyone else did I'd be happy to be involved in moderating for certain areas.
https://ukbouldering.fandom.com/wiki/Scotland Is this still editable? I started transferring from Clova from Scottish Climbs when that went TU, but never finalised it.
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I've just come across the Boulder Scotland site:
https://sites.google.com/site/boulderscotland/home
It's pretty good. Could definitely be added to.
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I've just come across the Boulder Scotland site:
https://sites.google.com/site/boulderscotland/home
It's pretty good. Could definitely be added to.
Yeah I thought that too Robbie
Might be worth contacting John re getting a better online guide(something we can all add too). No point in reinventing the wheel on this.
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I think he'd be quite keen. It might help him write a more comprehensive guide in the future...
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Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.
Oh thanks Chris, I will certainly check it out.
Is there a Topo anywhere or is it just a go/climb/enjoy kind of thing?
Go climb, enjoy, nothing hard just a few moves and drop off onto perfect white sand. IIRC (it was about 11 years ago) there may have been some harder looking stuff at the seaward end, but would need a proper clean up. If you think it's worthy of writing up, I'm not bothered about claiming anything.
I remember I sent a pic to John Watson (i've long since lost it) and he stuck it in his blog, did you find this bit?
https://www.stonecountrypress.co.uk/2009/07/armchair-sheigra.html
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Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.
Oh thanks Chris, I will certainly check it out.
Is there a Topo anywhere or is it just a go/climb/enjoy kind of thing?
Go climb, enjoy, nothing hard just a few moves and drop off onto perfect white sand. IIRC (it was about 11 years ago) there may have been some harder looking stuff at the seaward end, but would need a proper clean up. If you think it's worthy of writing up, I'm not bothered about claiming anything.
I remember I sent a pic to John Watson (i've long since lost it) and he stuck it in his blog, did you find this bit?
https://www.stonecountrypress.co.uk/2009/07/armchair-sheigra.html
Morning Chris
Yeah i found the short sea crag your talking about looked like quite good climbing, Unfortunately the weather was less than kind for the week we were up there. I did manage a little bit of bouldering on the smaller blocs in the cove closer to the dunes next to the burn on the same side of the beach.
Also managed a session at Droman pier {which i have developed over the years} squeezed out some repeats and a new line.
My interest was drawn to the promontory between Droman Pier and Polin Beach. 2 good slabs {maybe 5/6 lines to be cleaned and climbed and quite a high outcrop further inland that i have yet to investigate. All of these are south facing and are better approached from Droman Pier.
I hope to get back soon, I know Robbie G and chums are booked up to go in spring.
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I think I can see the slab on the satellite photo. Last time we were there (from that pic actually), we walked in to do some climbs in Polin Geo from Oldshoremore Beach. There are also some slabs set into that hillside. The rock is immaculate, but unfortunately at an easy enough angle that I could practically run up them in climbing shoes, be great for young kids though. Hopefully the ones you spotted are better.
There has been some sporadic development around Sheigra beach Campsite, but the write ups are so vague it's hard to figure out what's what.
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I saw some instagram (I think) photos of someone playing in the big cave square feature to the left of Sheigra beach. But I don't know if anything has been done. I've always wondered if there was something cool there.
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Earlier on this thread I said I was writing up some of my local new stuff and it's now up on the North West Outdoors Blog here:
http://www.northwestoutdoors.co.uk/northwestoutdoorsullapool/2020/12/12/new-bouldering-in-strathconon-and-strathgarve
There are a few more photos, videos and thoughts on local exploration on my instagram here:
http://www.instagram.com/easter_ross_choss/
Fair to say it's not going to set the world on fire, but worth knowing about if you're in the area or get rained out of the west.
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Good work. Lovely bit of rock for Reckoner and The Bends!
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Yeah, nice one Gaz :thumbsup:
The rock at the NGD boulders is really lovely, just a shame there isn't loads of it!
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Exciting. Exploding scene up north. Never seen so many folk at Celtic Jumble as in this autumn. They all seemed v 'respectful' too (I didnt pick up any litter, anyway). Really strong, albeit small scene developing around Inverness with central belt wads also making regular visits.New boulders and repeats in the 8's in recent years. Not sure Highland bouldering is slumped at a low standard as such. Its just that its a small number of protagonists with a relatively low social media presence. Just need a proper climbing wall and for those that want to contribute, a site to share info on.
In the short term a few people are writing wee blogs for http://invernessbouldering.blogspot.com
Im currently writing about rock climbing development in Scotland 2018-20 - bouldering sport and trad. Article(s) will inevitably be on UKC but also keen to share anywhere else viable. Anyone interested in talking about it or contributing please fire me an email peter.herd at icloud.com.
Cheers,
Pete
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I keep trying to persuade various large climbing wall chain owners that Inverness would be a great spot for a new bouldering wall... You'd get visitors from Ness, Aviemore, Ullapool, Moray etc. plus people would no doubt come through from Aberdeen and Fort Bill on a rainy weekend! Then there's the new starters and schools in the area that would be interested in a pure bouldering wall. Just need the likes of Eden Rock/TCA/Depot to be persuaded of that...
I'd be keen to contribute to a yorkshiregrit/peakbouldering-style site!
Looking forward to reading your articles Pete! You're definitely right in the protagonists being low-key, but I like that. I like how everyone in "the scene" seems to know each other by their first names only.
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Im convinced its one of the prime locations for a modern wall in the UK for many of the reasons you've highlighted.I grew up there and it hasn't stopped growing since i can remember. Economically robust area, pop growth projected to continue, improving transport links, more folk working at home, new uni campus etc. I just wish Eden Rock would replicate. Id be delighted to be involved.
Thanks Andy.. maybe you can ping me an email? We could get a few folk together on a whatsapp thing, maybe get a zoom chat with John Watson re the google site hes got?
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I am sure i read that Duncan Mcallum was building one in inverness.
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He's building what is mainly a routes wall with a bit of bouldering. Even with that I reckon there'll still be room for a dedicated bouldering wall. Also, he's been saying he'll build it for the last 6 years or so, so I'll believe it when I see it!
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Even though there is a large area to draw from, the overall population is pretty low, can't see it being a high priority for next new centre, central belt has a better draw I reckon.
I reckon the strong southern raider BW should be sent packing he seems to be hoovering up! :)
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Even though there is a large area to draw from, the overall population is pretty low, can't see it being a high priority for next new centre, central belt has a better draw I reckon.
I reckon the strong southern raider BW should be sent packing he seems to be hoovering up! :)
I agree Chris, Inverness is a wee town NOT a city. Simply doesn't have the footfall. Good luck to Duncan nonetheless.
as for the Benj...he is crushing at the moment and good on im but he was gently pulled back to earth recently when he put up a new problem up in Rooftown (Kansas City Shuffle} thought it was super hard thus grading it 7b, Dave Mac sent it a week later grading it 6b...hahahahaha
Your Not anybody till Dave downgrades yer problems :P
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He's truly arrived! Can't fault the boy's talent and psyche though.
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Inverness's answer to Sharma
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Inverness's answer to Sharma
The Sharmessiah has already graced strathnairn in the form of Benjamin Litster
https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiebetts/1304416051/in/dateposted/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiebetts/1304416051/in/dateposted/)
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Add to the "where are they now" list?
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Ben pretty much finished uni, got a job, moved away and as far as I'm aware stopped climbing. Haven't seen him since he left Glasgow.
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Apparently he made a comeback as Yes Ben! in Rocklands but has gone off the radar again
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Inverness's answer to Sharma
The Dark horse that is Stu Goodwin might qualify for this?
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... thought it was super hard thus grading it 7b, Dave Mac sent it a week later grading it 6b...
Made me laugh. I've climbed/failed on a few Dave Mac 6s.... I don't think he remembers what climbing 6s should feel like :)