UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => bouldering => Topic started by: cofe on December 20, 2010, 08:18:48 pm
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As me and the legal profession's pocket-sized Perry Mason (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42) are finishing off the new Peak bouldering guide at the minute, I thought I'd inadvisedly throw a grade debate open to the general riff-raff, i.e. you lot.
Note this is an opportunity to voice your thoughts and help us ensure we're close to consensus on stuff, rather than an excuse to compare cock size. Please bear that in mind as you move to unzip your fly. It builds to a degree on Bonjoy's grade changes thread (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,8858.0.html) from a couple of years ago.
Here's a few to get the ball rolling:
- Flatworld: Now settled at 7b+.
- Terrace: 7c.
- Electrical Storm: up to 7b.
- Kudos (any/either way): up to 7b.
- Dick Williams: down to 7b.
- River of Life: 7c+ or 8a?
(I've picked problems in the 7s, as that's what I'm expecting to get feedback on.)
Discuss.*
*I immediately regret this...
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I agree with both Electric Storm and Kudos being 7b.
Little Richard should go up to 7a+ in my opinion.
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WSS to 7C?
go on you know you want to
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Whats the going :greed: rate to up a Font Grade Cofe? ;) I think I've just figured out a new way to meet my 2010 goals :-\
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Everything has a price. ;)
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Giza....7b/b+?
Back in the YMCA..... 7b+?
Fact Hunt.....7a+?
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Giza harder for the short I think, felt 7B+ to me.
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Giza....7b/b+?
Back in the YMCA..... 7b+?
Fact Hunt.....7a+?
Giza is in at 7b+,
Fact Hunt is in at 7a+
Back in the YMCA is in at 7b+
I left WSS in at 7b+ for old times sakes. I admit it's a smidge harder without the pebble but I still thought it was 7b+ (and yes I have. With witnesses. If you count Dylan.)
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Piss at 7a+? Certainly feels to be more than half a grade between this and sh!t.
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Kudos is about 9B anyway I try it.
Agree with Piss and Shit being a full grade apart, work that as suits.
Is Ben's Roof 7C nowadays? It's easier than Powerband.
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Is Ben's Roof 7C nowadays? It's easier than Powerband.
You'd think that a 7c+ on which the crux hold doubled in size, an easier finish was found and a no-hands knee-bar rest was discovered in the middle would go down a grade. But no. Its still in as 7c+.
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Here we fucking go.
I vote that only people who have done over 600 7s and 8s in the Peak have enough knowledge to accurately grade anything.
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What have I started?
I'm happy for Ben's to stay as 7C+, but that only makes sense if Powerband is also 7C+, which would surely make Staminaband more than 8A at which point I can only presume the Earth would spin off it's axis and plunge headlong into the sun engulfing us all in flame or such-like...
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Out West,
you probably know Monologue not 7C
S&M down to 7a.
Stall Arete > 7a, shirley.
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Monologue at 7b+. S&M still 7a+ at the mo... Stall 7a.
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Stall Arete > 7a, shirley.
I'd agree with Stall at 7a. Hard for 7a, but not worth the plus (and don't call me shirley).
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I'm happy for Ben's to stay as 7C+, but that only makes sense if Powerband is also 7C+, which would surely make Staminaband more than 8A at which point I can only presume the Earth would spin off it's axis and plunge headlong into the sun engulfing us all in flame or such-like...
Powerband is much harder if you're short, like we are. I think for most people it's 7c.
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Is it harder if you're hairy?
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...But no. Its still in as 7c+.
Cheque's in the post your honour.
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I left WSS in at 7b+ for old times sakes. I admit it's a smidge harder without the pebble but I still thought it was 7b+ (and yes I have. With witnesses. If you count Dylan.)
Plus maybe half of the sequences people use don't even use the pebble anyway - you can't give those people a free upgrade for nothing. Its not as if the top sidepull fell off.
whats tumbleweed in at, 7c+?
I'd also like to table a motion to get bigger splash direct kneeling start (aka tsuneeling spash) in at 7c.
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Plus maybe half of the sequences people use don't even use the pebble anyway - you can't give those people a free upgrade for nothing. Its not as if the top sidepull fell off.
whats tumbleweed in at, 7c+?
True and yes.
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I'm happy for Ben's to stay as 7C+, but that only makes sense if Powerband is also 7C+, which would surely make Staminaband more than 8A at which point I can only presume the Earth would spin off it's axis and plunge headlong into the sun engulfing us all in flame or such-like...
Powerband is much harder if you're short, like we are. I think for most people it's 7c.
:agree:
BR is on average harder for the average of height.
Which hold got bigger on Ben's Roof, is this recent?
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Oh and Left Spur is 9d.
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Which hold got bigger on Ben's Roof, is this recent?
No, it predated the first guide (as did the kneebar etc). It's the left hand sidepull/undercut reached off the right hand crimp in the roof before you walk your feet round to the side wall. There used to be some crozzle on the lip so you couldn't get as many fingers in the good bit.
Left Spur now 7b.
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agreed with kudos being 7b
can see how small less powerful people might think the terrace is tough for 7c but I think it's fair
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Famous Grouse/SS...same grade? both 7c or both 7b+?
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Try telling Dutch that.
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There used to be some crozzle on the lip so you couldn't get as many fingers in the good bit.
Since this only fits two fingers in the good bit now (middle two, with little finger on the edge, and index finger split and in front) did this used to be a mono? In which case didn't people used to prefer the deeper, comfier mono nearby, that some people still use in preference?
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Don't think many people knew about the mono. Ask Keith Sharples - he can give you a detailed description of exactly how he held the hold before and after and how many fingers fit in the good bit. It's not as interesting as you might expect.
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The hold on the Terrace has got a lot bigger in the last couple of years, so might even be nearer to 7b+ now.
Kudos is anti-morpho 8b.
Dick Williams 7b, yes.
I think Ben's Roof deserves 7c+. For me, it is much harder than PB. One of those that probably feels alright if you weigh 70Kg and have small fingers.
For what it's worth, I think Jason's Roof (Burbage) is 7c even if you're my height. I reckon a split grade of 7c-7c+ depending on height and even 8a if you're short.
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Finally, someone talking sense.
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The hold on the Terrace has got a lot bigger in the last couple of years, so might even be nearer to 7b+ now.
Kudos is anti-morpho 8b.
Dick Williams 7b, yes.
I think Ben's Roof deserves 7c+. For me, it is much harder than PB. One of those that probably feels alright if you weigh 70Kg and have small fingers.
For what it's worth, I think Jason's Roof (Burbage) is 7c even if you're my height. I reckon a split grade of 7c-7c+ depending on height and even 8a if you're short.
BR is in at 7c+. Jasons is in at 7b+ but if 7c is reasonable it can go up.
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famous grouse is definately 7c, ss is shit
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How’s about:
Green Man (Stanton) – up to 7c
River of Life – Does anyone actually think it’s 8a?
Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
True Git – up to 7b+
Golden Path – 7b+ (had it at 7c on 7+8 list but then figured easier LH beta for the start, possibly 7c if started strictly up arete)
Back in YMCA – yes 7b+
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Jasons is in at 7b+ but if 7c is reasonable it can go up.
It's not morpho in the same way that Brass Monkeys is (done both in the last couple of months). Even if you can reach the hold on JR relatively easily, there is a lot more to do to hold it/match, get your feet round and do the final move.
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Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
Golden Path – 7b+ (had it at 7c on 7+8 list but then figured easier LH beta for the start, possibly 7c if started strictly up arete)
Really? If you think Mossatrocity is 7b+ you should get yerself up to Queen's Crag ;)
I'd be interested to know what the beta is on GP as judging by the number of capable folk not getting up it the day I was there, I would have thought 7b+ was pretty stout.
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jasons is not in any way 7b+
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Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
Golden Path – 7b+ (had it at 7c on 7+8 list but then figured easier LH beta for the start, possibly 7c if started strictly up arete)
Really? If you think Mossatrocity is 7b+ you should get yerself up to Queen's Crag ;)
I'd be interested to know what the beta is on GP as judging by the number of capable folk not getting up it the day I was there, I would have thought 7b+ was pretty stout.
Deep drop knee on big hold out left, LH to break. I think Harry figured a non dropknee sequence off an even bigger heel-toe foothold even further left.
If you’re thinking of that snowy day, I know at least Bob was trying to do it with the arete start.
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I know GP is John Welfords problem, (so should get 7b+ as standard), but realistically this problem has never ever been 7b+. It wouldn't be 7b+ on the moon! Yes, there are a number of very complex sequences that might make it easier (for the start, and for the top) but even with all the knowledge and perfect nick, it ain't anything less than 7c as a minimum. The bottom isn't the hard bit, so all this drop-knee beta is superfluous - its the top bit that everyone I've been on it with has found hard.
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Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
Not convinced by this but then again my face is smushed against the rock hugging the fridge low!
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Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
Not convinced by this
Ditto, but then I ain't done it, felt 7cish to me, if bottom end. Similar to Famous Grouse in that respect.
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I thought Dick Williams was as hard as West Side Story, which I did not using the pebble?
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Mossatrosity – down to 7b+
Not convinced by this but then again my face is smushed against the rock hugging the fridge low!
Grades for double prows will always be a procrustean (yes I’ve learnt a new word and I intend to use it) fit. At the end of the day aren’t probs supposed to be graded for the mythical averagely proportioned boulderer. Finding things harder/easier if you are bigger/smaller should be taken as a given.
Obviously this is problematic when something has never had an ascent by anyone close to these proportions and end up being given a grade which is meaningless to mr average (e.g. Opposition near Low Rider)Ho hum.
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Agree with Terrace at 7c, Electrical storm at 7b and Green man at 7c.
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For what it's worth, I think Jason's Roof (Burbage) is 7c even if you're my height. I reckon a split grade of 7c-7c+ depending on height and even 8a if you're short.
Is the 8a if you're short, based on a sequence for the short? Does anyone know of a sequence for those who can't do the reach?
It's not morpho in the same way that Brass Monkeys is (done both in the last couple of months). Even if you can reach the hold on JR relatively easily, there is a lot more to do to hold it/match, get your feet round and do the final move.
Jason's is way more morpho than Brass Monkeys. It is the most morpho problem that I have come across in the peak. Dave, king of milking the morpho, could run laps on this long before he was going other problems of a "similar" grade.
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Erm, trying to apply some SCIENCE to the issue...
To accomodate the apparent grade spread due to the morpho/strenght factors of certain problems why not use a voting system (like they have on yorkshiregrit.com or dare I say it on UKC..)? If you have enough data points, then you may get a mean and an idea of the spread? I'm not suggesting that the new guide should publish the mean/median and the SD ;D but it would seem the fairest way of establising the grade?? :shrug:
Or just use V-grades instead?? (ducks) ;)
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Erm, trying to apply some SCIENCE to the issue...
To accomodate the apparent grade spread due to the morpho/strenght factors of certain problems why not use a voting system (like they have on yorkshiregrit.com or dare I say it on UKC..)? If you have enough data points, then you may get a mean and an idea of the spread? I'm not suggesting that the new guide should publish the mean/median and the SD ;D but it would seem the fairest way of establising the grade?? :shrug:
What a great idea, something like peakbouldering.info (http://peakbouldering.info) perhaps? ;)
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Precisely, Bobs yer Aunties brother..
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Or just use V-grades instead?? (ducks) ;)
And this would solve what exactly?
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let's get back on topic....
Mossatrocity killed my hamstring before I could do it a few years ago and I've avoided it since, but it felt stiff to me, and it's hardly my anti-style. It's on my list to finish this year, so I'll be able to comment more accurately if I bag it up.
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Or just use V-grades instead?? (ducks) ;)
And this would solve what exactly?
(please note use of the winking smiley and ''ducks" - as in ducks for cover - meaning I was not being serious, shirley)
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Mark's roof left down to 6C+
Anything on roaches upper tier up several grades :jaw:
Weedkiller up to 7b
Kudos 7b
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Which reminds me. That nice balancy prob imediatley right of Joes Arete on the Roaches Upper Tier is closer to 6c/6c+ than V7 as wrote in the new BMC guide and named as 'Pink Wall Eliminate'
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hanging arete on the Tetris boulder is never 7B, maybe 6cish
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Weedkiller up to 7b
+1
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Seeing as Kudos Easy Way is as hard (if not much harder) than Kudos Hard Way it would seem logical to at least upgrade the former to parity. Also makes it neat and tidy to just have one grade for whichever way you choose to do the problem.
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Kudos is just in as one problem now, with mentions of the methods.
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sensible etc.
You guys going to be putting some pinches wall typos in again just for Banks?
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L1, L6, L13, L8, L17, L1, L14.
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L1, L6, L13, L8, L17, L1, L14.
;D
But the start to Millers Tale at 6b+ ? Its the hardest 6 I've ever done...
(but I am weak)
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L1, L6, L13, L8, L17, L1, L14.
That'll do nicely.
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L1, L6, L13, L8, L17, L1, L14.
I reckon that was doable up to L17.
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I'll stick it in then.
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My limited perspective, on the basis of the 3 month trip:
- Mossatrocity: Didn't do this, but it's definitely 7C. Felt harder than The Terrace
- The Terrace: 7B+/C. I am tall, and it's my style, so that may count for something.
- Electrical Storm: Definitely 7B. Probably the hardest 7B I did on my trip
- Walnut Whip: 7A+. This is soft as sin.
- Flatworld: 7B+. Didn't do this, but it's easier than The Terrace.
- Stall: 7A and no more.
- Jason's Roof at Burbage: Didn't do this, but came very close in about an hour before rain stopped play. I'm tall, but I reckon it's around 7C.
- T-Crack: definitely worth 7B+, especially if you compare it to Jerry's Traverse
- Jetpack: Felt soft for 7B
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My limited perspective, on the basis of the 3 month trip:
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- Jetpack: Felt soft for 7B
Jetpack was a bit eliminate before the new chipped/broken hold appeared, it's very silly now. It doesn't really make sense to give it the grade for the original sequence. It's better recorded at whatever grade it is as a non-eliminate, with maybe a mention that it used to be harder (and better) before chipping/breakage.[/list]
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Just a few suggestions:
Early doors: 7A (gorilla warfare still 7A).
Gorilla warfare original: 7A+ (feels so much harder than either of the above)
Marks roof left hand: 6C
I think the Jerry's traverse - T crack comparison is an odd one. I've tried both and done all the moves on T crack and next time I try it i'll do it, but find Jerry's really hard. Jerry's is a pure power problem and if, like me, you rely on other things to get up stuff it feels desparate! Although I haven't done either so what do I know.
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I think Bens Roof is defo harder than Powerband, 7c+ and 7c. I think Jasons is 7c too
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I've never done Powerband, but find Ben's Roof and Pump up the power fine. Horses for courses.
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I think Fish arete at Wimberry needs an upgrade. I found (and still find) this seriously stiff for 6c+. I think it is harder that all the 7as i've climbed. Admittedly it is a little morpho (if you can reach the good hold from the big foothold it may be easier), but i am pretty much average height and build; and the problem suits me reasonably well. Other people i know also really struggle with it. Certainly it isn't soft as has been suggested before.
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I think Bens Roof is defo harder than Powerband, 7c+ and 7c.
Agree - there are 2 moves I can't do on Ben's Roof so its got to be harder than PB
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My upgrading / grades staying the same post.
Mossatrocity I thought is a nice gift at easy 7c, wouldn't argue if it got 7b+. Dick Williams was a gift at 7b+ if you start strictly both hands on the ledge, i've seen a few ascents starting with a hand or foot up, effectively missing out that first hard move, and certainly giving it the 7b effect.
I also think for the average climber Flatworld is 7c.
Blind Date 7c?
Captain Hook I think 7b+, might be easier for the tall.
Storm definitive 7b+, seen a few wanna be wads not get this very easily or quickly.
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Sole Power 7b+?
StaminaHumps 8a?
Incidentally, what is Nacho's start to Keen Roof going in at?
Good work chaps.
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Oh, and I'd definitely give my vote for Famous Grouse (stand up) as 7c, and the sit start as worthless. It should be noted, I've done neither of them.
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I'd agree with el sausage re Sole Power and Stamina Humps and another vote here for BR being a grade above PB.
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Seeing as Kudos Easy Way is as hard (if not much harder) than Kudos Hard Way it would seem logical to at least upgrade the former to parity.
(http://www.onelargeprawn.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/spock.jpg)
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I also think for the average climber Flatworld is 7c.
For the average climber Flatworld is impossible.
However for the 7c climber, its gotta be easier than shit like terrace, powerband etc.
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Oh, and I'd definitely give my vote for Famous Grouse (stand up) as 7c, and the sit start as worthless.
I agree :thumbsup:
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I did Staminahumps climbing Rattle and hump the non eliminate way. 7c+ like this but probably not a true ascent in most peoples eyes
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But where did you start?
That reminds me... according to the Oracle Arthur Crabclaw III, Staminaband should start on the big flake, not the double pockets. Can this correction go in the new guide?
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Staminahumps seems easier than staminaband to me but then I'd disagree with the PB:BR grades as well.
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I'd disagree with the PB:BR grades .
That's because you're a short arse ;)
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if you're going to apply the 'average stature' defense then it applies at both end of the the bell. :whistle:
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I think Fish arete at Wimberry needs an upgrade. I found (and still find) this seriously stiff for 6c+. I think it is harder that all the 7as i've climbed. Admittedly it is a little morpho (if you can reach the good hold from the big foothold it may be easier), but i am pretty much average height and build; and the problem suits me reasonably well. Other people i know also really struggle with it. Certainly it isn't soft as has been suggested before.
6c+ is about right for me... but I'm lanky & I can see how it could be a low 7a.. (Top problem though: (my method http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,16143.msg281907.html#msg281907 (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,16143.msg281907.html#msg281907) ) and the top outs no path!
I cant see how people think Marks roof LH is less than a 7... seems like a pretty solid 7a to me.. again given my lank its one that plays to my strengths...
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But where did you start?
That reminds me... according to the Oracle Arthur Crabclaw III, Staminaband should start on the big flake, not the double pockets. Can this correction go in the new guide?
Yeah I think you need to basically be right of those pockets to start. I have one hand on flake, one on a little sharp slot. Apparently it originally started sitting!
Doyle, I recon that staminahumps non-eliminate would be a perfectly legit problem, Similarly an non-eliminate blueband-R&H link is/would be good.
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Blind Date 7c?
Captain Hook I think 7b+, might be easier for the tall.
Blind Date is never 7c.
I found Captain Hook hard, but thought that was just me. I wouldn't have argued with 7b+.
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StaminaHumps 8a?
Incidentally, what is Nacho's start to Keen Roof going in at?
Good work chaps.
Stamina Humps is currently in at 7c+. Problem with the tor is that there are lots of link ups and traverses in the 7c/7c+/8a range and everyone has different opinions about which ones are which grade.
Nacho's Keen Roof start is in at 8b. Only Nacho has done it though and his thoughts on the grade would be welcome now that he's done lots of other 8bs and some 8b+s.
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I also think for the average climber Flatworld is 7c.
For the average climber Flatworld is impossible.
However for the 7c climber, its gotta be easier than shit like terrace, powerband etc.
Agreed - Flatworld is way easier than Terrace/ PB etc (presumably by etc you mean stuff thats harder, but it would still be a tough tick for a climber with only a few 7b+'s under their belt
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I cant see how people think Marks roof LH is less than a 7... seems like a pretty solid 7a to me.. again given my lank its one that plays to my strengths...
I think it's 7a, even if it's maybe a bit soft. I've done plenty of easier 7a's in Font.
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I've done plenty of easier 7a's in Font.
really? do share.
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Storm definitive 7b+, seen a few wanna be wads not get this very easily or quickly.
I think the Storm comes down to technique. Everyone I know who's done it using a heel reckons it's a soft touch 7b+ or even 7b whereas I've also seen a lot of wads struggling on it / not doing it but they were using a toe instead of the heel.
If people think it's 7b+ using a heel fair enough but I don't think stuff should be graded for whack sequences.
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Have emailed Nacho. He said "8b... I don't know" for his start to Keen Roof. I seem to remember he felt it was a bit harder, but much better than the original start. It certainly looked like good climbing.
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Leotard legend??????????????????? :devangel:
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Stamina Humps is currently in at 7c+.
Staminahumps (finishing up Rattle and Hump hard way, obviously) was 7c+ in the last guide. This was when it still had a big positive spike to stand on for the (crux) match on the crimps. The spike was snapped off by big Tom a few years ago and it is now significantly harder than when the last guide came out. This is not necessarily an argument for an upgrade, but it is a grade harder than it used to be, whatever that grade was.
Problem with the tor is that there are lots of link ups and traverses in the 7c/7c+/8a range and everyone has different opinions about which ones are which grade.
As this thread is already demonstrating, everyone has different opinions about the grade of everything everywhere.
Lets get ready to Rumbleweed is 8a.
Is there a little yellow face to show everybody vigorously grinding their own axes?
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Leotard legend??????????????????? :devangel:
What does that mean?
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here goes:
dick williams:7b
weedkiller: 7b
mossatrosity: 7c
sorm has already been done to death, I very nearly did this many years ago but since then my flexability has gone downhill and I can't get my heel on any more: hard 7b+.
Giza:7b
wss: impossible
marks roof lh: very soft 7a at the very most
fish arete: 7a
captain hook, I found this hard I think: 7b+ (with a steaming pile of shite after it)
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Well some people Have been saying leotard is 7c, it feels alot harder to me.
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Well some people Have been saying leotard is 7c, it feels alot harder to me.
7c+ is sounding likely for this. will try to get a bit more feedback.
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Stamina Humps is currently in at 7c+.
Staminahumps (finishing up Rattle and Hump hard way, obviously) was 7c+ in the last guide. This was when it still had a big positive spike to stand on for the (crux) match on the crimps. The spike was snapped off by big Tom a few years ago and it is now significantly harder than when the last guide came out. This is not necessarily an argument for an upgrade, but it is a grade harder than it used to be, whatever that grade was.
good point. it snapped off during the time i was working powerhumps hard way and the difference was significant.
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also
Fact hunt: easy 7a+?, maybe 7a. Dense?
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I've done plenty of easier 7a's in Font.
really? do share.
chasseur du prises
lapin ou canard
action direct
graviton
egoiste
deltaroc
bizarre bizarre
...to name a few. didn't mean to sound like a dick in my post, my point was that not everything in Font is nails either.
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Fact Hunt is in at 7a+. Seems to be the consensus.
What about Hurry on Sundown and the sitter, I think we have 6b+ and 7a at the minute, but I struggle to grade these two?
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What about Hurry on Sundown and the sitter, I think we have 6b+ and 7a at the minute, but I struggle to grade these two?
Did you find an easier way of doing the sitter (other than using Robin's not a chockstone chockstone)?
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The way I do it uses a smeary edge in the face anyway. To be fair to Robin (you two should get married btw: 'Robin Banks' - genius), there is a foothold low on the crack that is part of the same block and not a chock, and there's an obvious chock that is obviously not cricket, and I'm pretty certain he was on about the former, cricket, foothold.
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(you two should get married btw: 'Robin Banks' - genius)
I'm glad you recognise that Robin would be the lady in our relationship.
there is a foothold low on the crack that is part of the same block and not a chock
I would be interested to see someone using that without dabbing.
When I did them I thought the stander was easy for a 7a and the sitter was hard for 7a+, but it was too scrittley to smear on the face at the time (hence the toe hooks round Flatworld) so maybe it has cleaned up enough to drop the grade now?
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i heelhooked LF around flatworld with a RF smear, built hands up, moved RF up once (i think) above change in angle, heel out, then you're in the stand-up. Smears still feel a bit scrittley. I think it's straightforward enough from standing though.
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I'll put LGRTRW and Stamina Humps up to 8a. Influx is harder than both so it should go up too.
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does that mean power humps hard way goes up too boss? ;)
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does that mean power humps hard way goes up too boss? ;)
Logically it should, but that would make it a grade harder than the Cave Problem, which seems wrong. Also I've just checked 8a.nu and can't see anyone saying it was 'hard' at 7b+. When did the foothold fall off, 2006? I can't remember. What do the people think?
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forget the people. they can eat cake. i think cave problem at 7b+ is now fair, but it's full value 7b+. yeah, PHHW is no harder actually. fair enough.
as you were...
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...Influx is harder than both so it should go up too.
I agree.
I also think that PHHW is harder than the cave problem (slot start), but not necessarily a different grade.
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I thought Powerhumps hard way was harder than the majority of the 7B+'s I've done and some of the 7C's, but it doesn't really play to my strengths. Would love to see Weedkiller go up to 7B.
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In reply to all posts, just picking on some random problems:
Dick Williams: I think 7b+
Piss is not 7a+. 7b fo sho.
Ben's roof is harder than powerband IMO. 7c+.
Monologue 7b or 7b+?
Jason's roof: easier than terrace for me (I'm 6 ft 2), so if that's now 7c, Jason's can be 7b+...
Early doors is too hard for 7a.
Mark's left: bottom end 7a.
Surely staminahumps is as hard as staminaband? Or am I just too tall and weak? You can give powerhumps hard way 7c whilst you're at it..
Famous grouse sit makes no change in grade IMO - soft 7c either way.
Weedkiller 7a+.
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I thought Powerhumps hard way was harder than the majority of the 7B+'s I've done and some of the 7C's
Of course you did. You climb in Yorkshire.
I'm just bitter cos I still have a carpet burn on my face
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Don't make me post the photo ;)
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Ok Strawberries is 4 down from 4+ :-*
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Ok Strawberries is 4 down from 4+ :-*
It took you 5 pages to mention Strawberries. Good effort.
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I've been at work.
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Fair play. Any thoughts on Early Doors?
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5+.
now where's my fucking autoboigraphy deal? I'll get Dawes and Dave Thomas to co ghost write. It's a winner I tell you.
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Powerhumps hard way 7c. Never seen 7b+. Tor sandbaggers.
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Can we keep some of our sandbags PLEASE?
Pwerhumps isn't 7c.
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As an 'outsider' who goes to the peak about 5-6 times a year it might be useful to get some perspective from someone who hasn't lapped all the easier 7's.
Fact Hunt - defo 7a+
Hurry on Sundown s/s 7a with left heel round left arete
Early Doors - easy 7a+ (don't downgrade everything)
Piss 7b and not piss either
Captain Hook - easy 7b+
Undercut dyno 7a+
Soft on the G 7b
Ben's Reverse 7a+
Marks Roof left - easy 7a
But as we all know, its horses for courses. When's the guide coming out then?
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piss - 7d.
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Captain Hook - easy 7b+
That's 3 votes for it going up then.
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Captain Hook - easy 7b+
That's 3 votes for it going up then.
As the only problem I've done harder than 7a+ I'll take the upgrade!
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Captain Hook - easy 7b+
That's 3 votes for it going up then.
If that's the case then Bentley's would have to go up too. It's a comfortable grade harder than CH.
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Can we keep some of our sandbags PLEASE?
Pwerhumps isn't 7c.
Agree - its easier than PB
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Powerhumps will be staying at 7b+ for hard way.
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I've done plenty of easier 7a's in Font.
really? do share.
chasseur du prises
lapin ou canard
action direct
graviton
egoiste
deltaroc
bizarre bizarre
...to name a few. didn't mean to sound like a dick in my post, my point was that not everything in Font is nails either.
Cobblers Cofe. All of the above are way harder than MRLH. Which is why I don't get into grading arguments, you're all wrong. People seem to forget that there are grades under 7 :whistle:
Of those mentioned earlier:
Marks Roof LH 6c
Soft on the G 7a
Thuggy Bear (cos I did it last weekend) 6b with block, 6c without.
Strawberries - 5
Green Traverse 6c - it can't be 7a, the Shark's done it!
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Captain Hook - easy 7b+
That's 3 votes for it going up then.
If that's the case then Bentley's would have to go up too. It's a comfortable grade harder than CH.
and isn't it easier than zippy's :shrug:
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Captain Hook or Bentley's?
Captain Hook is easier than Zippy's, Bentley's is harder.
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Surely CH is harder than Zippy's ?
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Thuggy Bear (cos I did it last weekend) 6b with block, 6c without.
There is no block on Thuggy Bear.
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Look what you've created cofe
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thuggy Bear - There's a big block to put your foot on. Otherwise known as the floor, really.
Captain Hook is harder than Zippy's
I think Sloper should be allowed to grade everything.
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Look what you've created cofe
I know. Great, innit. ;D
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thuggy Bear - There's a big block to put your foot on. Otherwise known as the floor, really.
You've just answered yourself there.
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captain hook is definately harder than zippys although they are both arse dragging shuffles, zippys is a far better problem.
soft on the g, I wouldn't argue with 7b for this
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From the punter point of view:
Early doors remains 7a+, based on other 7a's i've done around there (inc gorilla and trackside)
The prince, felt really hard for the grade.
Green traverse 7a, as it killed my shoulder :(
7 Ball always felt hard at 6c, took me ages to get it. Not done it in a good while though.
Electrical storm (not done it yet) but feel it must be 7b.
The Kid. Went fairly easy but very much suited my style. 6c down from 7a?
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captain hook is definately harder than zippys although they are both arse dragging shuffles, zippys is a far better problem.
soft on the g, I wouldn't argue with 7b for this
I did Captain Hook on sunday as my first proper 7B so wouldn't be complaining if it went up to 7B+. However, and maybe I can't judge as I haven't done enough at the grade, but I just can't believe it can be 7B+, it didn't feel enough of a step up from the 7A+'s I have done.
Also no chance is MRLH 7A, I did it second go and I don't do 6C's second go never mind 7A. Also compare it to MRLH BMC line which is significantly harder (IMO) and gets the same grade?
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Look what you've created cofe
Some cunning marketing is what he has created.
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zippys is a far better problem.
This is tripe. Are we discussing stars or just grade?
General view so far: It seems like we're heading for some serious expansion of the 7b+ grade - all the 7cs seem to be coming down, plus several 7bs going up. The socio-demographic significance of 7b+ as representing the punter/hero transition has been discussed here before, so I won't go into that, but one thing is clear to me: since the last guide people have got better. Cofe for instance, has done Brad Pit. There are other examples. In summary, I think we need to make a bit more space for what I propose calling 'the easier 7cs' rather than just expanding 7b+ to accomodate all the proud problems that punters are suddenly wobbling up.
For starters, I now consider WSS 7c. It was considered hard/ borderline before, since the pebble loss the easiest sequence is no longer viable - therefore 7c.
And another thing - why is jonjon offering 'an opinion'? Surely he will just take a red pen to the final manuscript and lay down the truth?
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General view so far: It seems like we're heading for some serious expansion of the 7b+ grade - all the 7cs seem to be coming down, plus several 7bs going up.
Really?
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'the easier 7cs' == 7c- ?
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wise words Johnny.
saying that zippys was better than captain hook purely meant that the moves are better, they are both shit problems
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zippys is a far better problem.
This is tripe. Are we discussing stars or just grade?
General view so far: It seems like we're heading for some serious expansion of the 7b+ grade - all the 7cs seem to be coming down, plus several 7bs going up. The socio-demographic significance of 7b+ as representing the punter/hero transition has been discussed here before, so I won't go into that, but one thing is clear to me: since the last guide people have got better. Cofe for instance, has done Brad Pit. There are other examples. In summary, I think we need to make a bit more space for what I propose calling 'the easier 7cs' rather than just expanding 7b+ to accomodate all the proud problems that punters are suddenly wobbling up.
For starters, I now consider WSS 7c. It was considered hard/ borderline before, since the pebble loss the easiest sequence is no longer viable - therefore 7c.
And another thing - why is jonjon offering 'an opinion'? Surely he will just take a red pen to the final manuscript and lay down the truth?
There's probably an element of that but also I think historically there have been less peak 7b+s than you'd expect in a balanced grade system suggesting stuff at the margins of 7b and 7c was in the wrong grade.
I also think WSS is 7c.
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General view so far: It seems like we're heading for some serious expansion of the 7b+ grade - all the 7cs seem to be coming down, plus several 7bs going up.
Bit of an exaggeration. Most ppl seem to think Mossatrocity should stay at 7c. Captain Hook has been suggested as an upgrade to 7b+, but not everyone would agree with that. Dick Williams down to 7b. I dunno about Flatworld as I've not tried it in decent conditions, but apart from that it's not as if the grades of Brad Pit or Western Eyes have cropped up again (both suggested as downgrades in the 2008 thread). Oh, I guess Sole Power down to 7b+, but really, it's not that hard just high. I've suggested an upgrade of Jason's Roof, which only one other person has disagreed with. Storm should stay at 7b+. Can't say I've followed the staminahumps stuff.
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I think JB is reading between lines that aren't there.
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looks like this thread has served a purpose if wss goes to 7c, although I still think I'll never do it :(
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just dropped back into this thread, and saw the possibility of CH going up to 7B+, I did it recently and didnt think that it felt anywhere near what i feel a 7B+ should feel like.
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:agree: 7b for CH
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just dropped back into this thread, and saw the possibility of CH going up to 7B+, I did it recently and didnt think that it felt anywhere near what i feel a 7B+ should feel like.
Yes I'll second that, felt like 7b to me.
Problems I've done that have grades I disagree with in guides or have come up in this thread, or I feel need a mention. :shrug:
Electrical Storm 7b
Sauvito 7b
S&M 7a (ss at 7a+?)
Moontan 7b
Tombstone7a+
Early Doors7a+
Gorilla Warfare 7a
Desperot 7a
Hamper's Direct (Mantle) 6c
Mark's Roof LH 6c+
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I know it's veered on and off topic a bit, but I would like to thank everyone who has chipped in so far. Really handy, and much appreciated.
Continue...
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Not wanting to reopen the can but have all these worms (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,13925.0.html) been sorted out yet?
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When people are talking about Mark's Roof LH, are the talking about the line in Peak Bouldering or the line in the BMC guide (starting as per Mark's Roof then traversing left)?
For the PB line, I'd say 6c (as I flashed it, never flashed anything else harder than 6c). For the BMC line I'd say 7a.
For Captain Hook as much as I'd love it to be, it's no harder than Font 7b. It's the only one I've done and I'm not close to many others, least of all close to 7b+!
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My 20 pence-worth, although I'm guessing most people have lost interest by now!
MRLH - 6c+
Green Traverse - I think of this as the standard 7a traverse, don't think we should change this as surely we need some things to base grades on!
Trackside - 6c
Suavito - 7b
AABTKB - 7a+
Europe after Rain - 7a
Breakfast - 6c+
Weedkiller - 7b!
Kudos - 7b (and the rest)
Not sure what grade you've got bigger splash/tail normal method in at but I reckon 7a+ for both.
Early doors 7a+ (yes its 3 grades harder than trackside for me at least)
Piss - 7b - This would be the hardest 7a in the world if it was downgraded (other than la joker obviously)
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I now consider WSS 7c. It was considered hard/ borderline before, since the pebble loss the easiest sequence is no longer viable - therefore 7c.
I also think WSS is 7c.
And I know cofe does too.
Come on, do the right thing.
In regards to MRLH, is it worth the hassle a comparison to other Peak roof problems of similar grades, eg The Nose, LIARD, Razor Roof, erm....?
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Not wanting to reopen the can but have all these worms (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,13925.0.html) been sorted out yet?
Do you want to know or do you just want it to be a horrible surprise? I've rationalised it a bit. Probably won't be popular.
Press 7b+, low rt 7c+, low left (hard) 8a, Bigger Splash Direct 7b, low rt 7c, Tsunami (soft) 8a (either way)
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When people are talking about Mark's Roof LH, are the talking about the line in Peak Bouldering or the line in the BMC guide (starting as per Mark's Roof then traversing left)?
For the PB line, I'd say 6c (as I flashed it, never flashed anything else harder than 6c). For the BMC line I'd say 7a.
It's the same line in both isn't it? The left side of the roof.
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I now consider WSS 7c. It was considered hard/ borderline before, since the pebble loss the easiest sequence is no longer viable - therefore 7c.
I also think WSS is 7c.
And I know cofe does too.
Come on, do the right thing.
In regards to MRLH, is it worth the hassle a comparison to other Peak roof problems of similar grades, eg The Nose, LIARD, Razor Roof, erm....?
I do think WSS is 7c. I've only tried it once post-pebble snapping, and it's ballsed up my sequence.
What's LIARD? Am I being dense? There's not much in The Nose and MRLH for me, although I do Nose the reach around (!) way, but have done it the other. I think Nose is 7a. Razor Roof is easier than MRLH by half a grade? Maybe MRLH is 6c+?
6c+ always seems like such a cynical grade.
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It's the same line in both isn't it? The left side of the roof.
When the pdf preview was realeased it listed what everyones calls MRLH as Roadside Roof and the original problem (starting as for MR and finishing up the flake) as MRLH.
By the time the guide came out this had been changed back to avoid confusion but it appears not to have worked on everyone.
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6c+ always seems like such a cynical grade.
I know what you mean. It's almost like it means "this problem is 7a, but we all find it piss, so you get to fail knowing that you won't even get a nice round number at the end".
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LIARD = Life In a Radiocative Dustbin.
Also the narrow RH wall from the keel on the Jason's Roof block, waaaaay easier than that.
There's also Short Seans... and Diamond White LH in the old guide "best of" section but I've not done those to compare.
I've considered the evidence and am gonna vote 6C+ (sorry cofe, I know you don't like it).
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Not wanting to reopen the can but have all these worms (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,13925.0.html) been sorted out yet?
Do you want to know or do you just want it to be a horrible surprise? I've rationalised it a bit. Probably won't be popular.
Press 7b+, low rt 7c+, low left (hard) 8a, Bigger Splash Direct 7b, low rt 7c, Tsunami (soft) 8a (either way)
Might not be popular but makes a bit more sense.
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why are people bringing green traverse and gorilla warfare into a grades discussion? they are 7a and thats it
also trackside, 6c are people on crack? cue shit strawberries joke
i agree with everything T_B has said
if people want to start bringing grades like this down stop climbing at walls and getting stronger faster than people 20 years ago. CH 7b+ my sides can't take anymore
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6c+ always seems like such a cynical grade.
I know what you mean. It's almost like it means "this problem is 7a, but we all find it piss, so you get to fail knowing that you won't even get a nice round number at the end".
Exactly. Horrible grade. I'd scrap it completely.
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LIARD = Life In a Radiocative Dustbin.
6c at the minute, but more high than hard?
Also the narrow RH wall from the keel on the Jason's Roof block, waaaaay easier than that.
This is 7a+, that's why.
There's also Short Seans... and Diamond White LH in the old guide "best of" section but I've not done those to compare.
Short Sean's with the block is 7a right? Probably a harder move for the average gent, granted.
I've considered the evidence and am gonna vote 6C+ (sorry cofe, I know you don't like it).
You can't vote 6c+ if we abolish it. ;)
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By the time the guide came out this had been changed back to avoid confusion but it appears not to have worked on everyone.
I've not got the guide, only seen the pdf so didn't realise it'd been put back as per Peak Bouldering. In that case 6c/6c+.
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LIARD = Life In a Radiocative Dustbin.
6c at the minute, but more high than hard?
Agreed. and morpho
Also the narrow RH wall from the keel on the Jason's Roof block, waaaaay easier than that.
This is 7a+, that's why.
7a in the old current guide ;)
I've considered the evidence and am gonna vote 6C+ (sorry cofe, I know you don't like it).
You can't vote 6c+ if we abolish it. ;)
But then what would The Sheep be? Other than still nails and shit
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captain hook is probably 7b, fel hard to me but I only got 3 goes at it at a time as my left wrist seperates on the sloper
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CH 7b+?!!.......obviously someone has a bigger pot of bribe money than the russian football federation....
This can simply not be upgraded to 7b+, remember it will then be the same grad as WSS, which is definitive 7b+ IMHO (with or without the pebble.)
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overruled
7c now ;) (wss)
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Ch will stay at 7b I think.
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I haven't tried WSS since the pebble came off - does it make that much difference ?
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captain hook is probably 7b, fel hard to me but I only got 3 goes at it at a time as my left wrist seperates on the sloper
My wrist does this on some slopers, seemingly at random (ie always on some slopers but hard to predict which). Very annoying when you latch a hold then just have to step off.
Sorry, off topic.
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Upgrade WSS for sure. 2 brief sessions and no cigar!
Captain Hook is probably 7B but I would usually expect to do (7B) in a couple goes and got shut down :boohoo:
I reckon most stuff is about right that I've done in the Peak.
Is Brass Monkeys staying at 7C? I'd be well happy if it does :kiss2:
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Another vote for CH at 7b.
As much as i'd like my (and the gf's) first grit 7b to actually be 7b+, it isn't.
Same for Zippy's.
I wouldn't bother messing with MRLH, GW, Green Traverse, Early Doors or Trackside to be honest. Arguments and whining will continue regardless of what the guide says.
There does feel more than a '+' between Piss and Shit but neither Piss at 7a+ or Shit at 7c sounds right to me, so i'd say just leave these too.
Whip me, whip me - never 7a+, 6c/+?
Triptych groove at the Roaches - i've always assumed this was a typo in the last guide at 7a+. Was it meant to be 6a+?
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After reading today's posts:
Captain Hook - 7b for sure.
WSS - 7b+ (but I can see why some say 7c and wouldn't argue against an upgrade)
Desperot - 7a
Mark's roof left hand (from the shelf) - felt 7a when I did it
Soft on the G - 7b
Sauvito - 7b
Trackside & Sidetrack - Both 7a
LIARD - 6c
Fair enough if people think the Storm is 7b+ but based on that Baseline (the link up from Beneath the Breadline) might be worth 7c+?
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Fair enough if people think the Storm is 7b+ but based on that Baseline (the link up from Beneath the Breadline) might be worth 7c+?
I know this is a bit of an odd way of grading, but odds on you're not going to try and do Baseline unless you find the storm pretty easy - so most people actually doing Baseline will probably find it 7c - hence the reason it got that grade in the first place. Plus if you put baseline up to 7c+ it throws off all the grades for Bloodline etc.
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In hindsight i'm happy if CH is 7B. I'm short and probably afraid of having my head caved in by the rock step which adds a bit. However, just to add fuel to the confusion there's lots of talk about 'it's not as hard as, or it's easier than therefore it can't be that grade' Remember there's a big difference between soft at the grade and hard at the grade (almost a grade actually) which is a big difference! But that doesn't make them different grades. Don't fall into the trap of downgrading all the easy ones or visa versa (like i did)
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My opinion matters little here but I'll give it anyway.
Flatworld felt 7B+
Flatworld Left felt easier, but more than 7B. Maybe both at 7B+? Sorry JB
CH felt harder than Zippys. Hard and Easy 7B
Electrical Storm. Hard 7A+, maybe 7B for the short? It's just an (initially) improbably sequence (or so I thought)
I'd be happy to see WSS up to 7C
Satin 6C?
Pressure Drop 7A+?
GW and ED are good at 7A, and 7A+
Dick Williams is 7B+, and Left-Hand Man is only half a grade harder
The Arete at Higgar is harder than 7A+
I've always thought The Storm should be 7C
And Brad Pit 7C+ :whistle:
All problems on Limestone should have at least two full grades added ;D ;)
As for MRLH, and Breakfast going down to 6C+... are there allowed to be any soft touch 7A's anymore?
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I think we need more sandbags around the 6c+ mark, there clearly is a void here
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red or dead and free range abattoir seem a little accurately graded at 7a+, perhaps they need to come down to 7a to be consistant with Tor grades. Also anyone confirm Sit start to saline drip - i thought it a toughie at 7a+.
Satin 7a and Pressure Drop 7b
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Also anyone confirm Sit start to saline drip - i thought it a toughie at 7a+.
Yes, there's a sit start to Saline Drip.
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Awesome!
WSS up to 7c? JB has lost the plot. Godoffe reckoned it would be 7a in the forest. (admittedly, a 7a like l'Angle Parfait, but what's a good climbing area without a few sandbags?) Seriously, though... when did this get harder? Fatty Barton pulling the pebble off made naff-all difference anyway. You can only make this 7c with the magnificent sitter :whistle:
Captain Hook is 7b max with the chip on the arete that everybody now uses - might push 7b+ without, but the difficulty comes from avoiding the chip anyway.
I love these threads - you tell yourself that you don't want to read them or post an opinion, but always end up in the mire along with everybody else. I hope everybody has a drink....
Carry on.
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I am inclined to agree with Drew for Satin at 6C.
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Awesome!
Fatty Barton pulling the pebble off made naff-all difference anyway.
Just to clarify it was another Fatty Barton that pulled the pebble off WSS, and WSS is a full grade harder than Famous Grouse, but then what do i know i like the sitter to FG
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Godoffe reckoned it would be 7a in the forest.
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs463.snc4/50252_34918106080_362_n.jpg)
P.S. Chris says "Hi' from Ceuse.
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Where the fuck was the pebble on WSS?
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about a foot up and left of the crimp.
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wss should stay at 7b+
flatworld also 7b+
I think powerhumps is CONSIDERABLY harder than these, but i have a woman's hands.
the storm feels hard for 7b+
captain hook should stay 7b (agree with wrist separation jim)
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I reckons:
Storm = low 7c
kudos = hard 7b
rattle n hump = hard 7a+
millers tale = 6c
satin = soft 7a
jerrys arete @ cratcliff = 7a+
jerrys trav @ cratcliff = hard 7b
t crack = 7b+
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Personally I think MRLH just creeps in at a very soft 7a. My reasoning being that it feels of a reasonably similar style to Razor Roof, which feels a full grade easier (soft 6c). However, it's worth taking into account that this is a MASSIVELY biased viewpoint as this was my first (and only) peak 7a to date, so I may just be clinging desperately onto the idea that I can climb 7a on grit. :boohoo:
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godoffe prob does reckon wss is 7a based on the all over grades of his font guide
everybody saying razor roof is piss all of a sudden, interesting. i've got long arms and it is piss but there are people out there with the audacity to have normal length arms
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I've got normal length arms but thought it was fine so long as you can crimp and are willing to cut loose on the last big move (so more ability to dyno rather than crank). Having said that I'd keep it at 6c as well, grades need a bit of wiggle room (and we all need nice and friendly soft touches).
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that was my point, i don't think its a soft touch at all
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Fair enough, arms length aside both problems are very much my type of climbing so horses for courses and all that I guess.
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So Razor Roof up to 6C+, you got that cofe?
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I haven't tried WSS since the pebble came off - does it make that much difference ?
To answer my own question - yes it does.
I couldn't do it today so will need to get a new sequence or summat
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wss should stay at 7b+
flatworld also 7b+
I think powerhumps is CONSIDERABLY harder than these, but i have a woman's hands.
the storm feels hard for 7b+
captain hook should stay 7b (agree with wrist separation jim)
Which of these have you actually done Foley?
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The Arete at Higgar is harder than 7A+
:agree:
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Rawhide at Apparent North - has it lost a pebble/razor blade? Is it now 7b?
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the storm feels hard for 7b+
The Storm only feels hard if you are in-flexible.
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I can't do tuesdays or every other sunday, but I still thought it was 7b.
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well I just can't get my heel up any more.
I've seen a video of axle doing wss (can't remember If he topped out tho ;))
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OK so what about:
The arete at the right of the start of the Brain at Curbar?
The Enthusiast at Burbage North?
anymore?
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(http://images.free-extras.com/pics/s/strawberries-615.gif)
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(http://images.free-extras.com/pics/s/strawberries-615.gif)
Now there was no way that sloper is going to give up beating that mangled old drum is there. I think the grade given for Strawberries is pretty much on the money actually but if it does go up I won't complain... ;)
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adam for your interest
i've done all (hence commenting on the grades) except the storm, which is why i consider it hard (i have only tried it once or twice though and my hips are fused through competitive running as a youth)
i did wss pre pebble break and have done it post pebble break. i don't deserve a medal for this. :yawn:
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Good good. I don't think The Storm should get an upgrade based on your hips though.
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no, probably not, i should probably touch my toes a few times and not try it in the summer
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your always touching your toes when I come round :shag:
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are my toes a euphemism for your anus?
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adam for your interest
i've done all (hence commenting on the grades) except the storm, which is why i consider it hard (i have only tried it once or twice though and my hips are fused through competitive running as a youth)
i did wss pre pebble break and have done it post pebble break. i don't deserve a medal for this. :yawn:
What you've climbed multiple 7b+s and done the 4 minute mile??? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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wow 7b+. i feel like i've truely arrived!
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adam for your interest
i've done all (hence commenting on the grades) except the storm, which is why i consider it hard (i have only tried it once or twice though and my hips are fused through competitive running as a youth)
i did wss pre pebble break and have done it post pebble break. i don't deserve a medal for this. :yawn:
What you've climbed multiple 7b+s and done the 4 minute mile??? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
I want proof, 3 independent witnesses who can each produce a reference of good character.
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no can do there I'm afraid.
Ironically some of the harder problems axle has claimed to of done have been when he's on his own and there was no one else at the crag. :o
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:-\ whoever goes climbing on their own!
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a cunt?
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I wonder if two almost identical guidebooks would sell the same amount of copies if one had higher grades for the same problems? I reckon the one with the higher grades would sell more copies.
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you could read them both and then just read the one you liked the most. direct comparison
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one called "peak", the other called "bouldering". I'm gonna do laps, basically, after that.
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For what it's worth:
Trackside - 7a.
Gorrilla Warfare - 7a.
Early Doors - 7a+.
Hurry On Sundown sitter - down to 7a. Dunno about the stand-up start.
Captain Hook - not done it but got pretty close and can't believe it is harder than 7b.
Green Traverse - 7a.
The Nose - soft 7a.
Life in a Radio Active Dustbin - dunno what this currently gets but I abjectly failed when I tried it and remember thinking it was a sandbag.
Acid Reign - 6c.
Satin - 7a.
The Beagle Has Landed - down to 7a.
Breakfast - didn't get this done on the brief session I had on it but felt like it would be soft 7a.
The Sheep - 6c+.
Faze Action - not done this but when I tried it, it looked like it might have lost what would have been a pretty useful pebble - anyone know? If so, has this affected the grade?
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Joe's Arête at Froggatt - think it gets 6b but it felt more like 6a or maybe soft 6a+ to me when I did it earlier this week. I have spent too much time around Sloper listening to him rabbit on ad nauseum about Strawberries being overgraded though so there is every chance it is right.
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Disclaimer: some of these opinions may/may not have nothing/everything to do with me being a bit on the short and weak side.
Storm: 7b. Much easier than Blind Date. I have the world's most inflexible hips and I managed to get my heel on by doing a pull-up on the crimps. Having inflexible hips or using a toe does not mean you can claim a higher grade - that's like saying The File is HVS if you can't jam (sorry for the chuffing analogy).
Captain Hook: 7b.
Terrace: 7b+. It's easy to work every move on it and I found it easier than the 7b+ version of Zaff Skoczylas.
Blind Date: 7c. I agree with 205Chris. I still maintain this is the hardest problem I have done anywhere. I'm not that tall which could be an excuse but then Chris is a giant so it's nothing to do with height.
Electrical Storm: up to 7b (I'm undecided as to whether this is just because I found it reachy but it was hard).
Dick Williams: down to 7b. Definitely easier than things like Zaff Sk and Blind Date.
Zaff's problem: 7b.
WSS: obviously very knacky but I'd vote 7b+ (having a couple of brief sessions on it and failing does not warrant upgrading it :boohoo: It just needs some good old-fashioned graft)
Breakfast: soft 7a. Maybe I should go and do it again but it felt hard to me.
Sidetrack: no more than 7a, just a bit conditions dependent.
I think Hemline and Piss should have their grades reversed ie Hemline up to 7b and Piss down to 7a+. I shall refrain from commenting on Shit until I have done it.
Please keep the Nose at 7a, I treasure the memory of my first 7a flash :'(
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i think LIARD is easier than 6c. Depends if you french to the lip or not but still very straight forwards. Id even go so far as to suggest 6b. There are certainly harder 6a+ in the forest.
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I'd agree with that, but I still find as a short inflexible bastard that LIARD is quite tricky . . . . actually that's bollocks it's just powerfull and now I'm weak I find it tricky.
Anyone tried le lancer at L'elephant from the ground?
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i think LIARD is easier than 6c. Depends if you french to the lip or not but still very straight forwards. Id even go so far as to suggest 6b. There are certainly harder 6a+ in the forest.
Please don't downgrade LIARD. I was despondent enough getting shutdown on it at 6c.
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Anyone tried le lancer at L'elephant from the ground?
yes
(and of course I couldn't do it)
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ignore CLM. He was obviously feeling light the day he did LIARD and heavy the day he did a 6a+ in font. Have you got rocks in your head? 6a+ in font only feels hard when you do not know how to do it
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is a problem you can manage when you rock up in piss wet, muddy adidas sambas that youve mountain biked there in worthy of 6c? Anyway, this is a grading debate. Who said anything about talking sense? What does remergence get? Its easier than that.
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is a problem you can manage when you rock up in piss wet, muddy adidas sambas that youve mountain biked there in worthy of 6c? Anyway, this is a grading debate. Who said anything about talking sense? What does remergence get? Its easier than that.
anybody climbing in piss wet muddy trainers is pretty disrespectful, what about the guy who turned up 30 minutes after you left to do his proj only to find out it was covered in mud? also anybody climbing on grit or sandstone please keep your feet clean, dirty shoes cause erosion.
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ill claim the innocence of youth. It was back in the 90s pre mats and that. It was E4 6c then.
And the fact i was being a nob doesnt affect my opinion on grades.
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zippys is a far better problem.
This is tripe. Are we discussing stars or just grade?
General view so far: It seems like we're heading for some serious expansion of the 7b+ grade - all the 7cs seem to be coming down, plus several 7bs going up. The socio-demographic significance of 7b+ as representing the punter/hero transition has been discussed here before, so I won't go into that, but one thing is clear to me: since the last guide people have got better. Cofe for instance, has done Brad Pit. There are other examples. In summary, I think we need to make a bit more space for what I propose calling 'the easier 7cs' rather than just expanding 7b+ to accomodate all the proud problems that punters are suddenly wobbling up.
For starters, I now consider WSS 7c. It was considered hard/ borderline before, since the pebble loss the easiest sequence is no longer viable - therefore 7c.
And another thing - why is jonjon offering 'an opinion'? Surely he will just take a red pen to the final manuscript and lay down the truth?
:agree:
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is a problem you can manage when you rock up in piss wet, muddy adidas sambas that youve mountain biked there in worthy of 6c?
Depends on whether it's done footless, really.
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What does remergence get? Its easier than that.
No it's not.
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oh yes it is!
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... it's behind you. Er sorry, I mean Oh no it's not!
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everyone can safely ignore any opinion clm has about grades
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i don't know he's normally on the money, what about that piece of shit crack whore he put up in wilton. old school 6c was it jim, by far the hardest problem he'd ever done?
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Has that even seen a repeat?
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Crack Horse? In Brownstones, at 7a+ and still unrepeated?
The legend that is CLM :bow:
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I'll rephrase my question - has anybody bothered to repeat it?
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A few other thoughts.
What does remergence get? Its easier than that.
No it's not.
Remergence is solid 6b, i reckon. The arete to the left is tougher. Maybe deserves a plus.
Someone earlier mentioned 7ball. I agree this is tough for 6c, but probably not 7a.
Satin is a soft 7a, but not sure it should be downgraded. You still need pretty strong fingers.
Tiger (on the tank) is seriously hard for 6a. Probably a 6b at least.
The groove on the useful block (without the crack) is ridiculously hard for 5+. Feels like a 6c.
Breakfast and trackside are definitely 7as. They are knacky, so that is why some people find them easier. If you don't have the feel, they can spit you off endlessly.
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Nemo, I keep meaning to have a look but the "terriers chewing on your fingers" description puts me off a bit!
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Remergence is solid 6b, i reckon. The arete to the left is tougher. Maybe deserves a plus.
Someone earlier mentioned 7ball. I agree this is tough for 6c, but probably not 7a.
I think Remergence nudges into 6b+. 7ball definitely isn't any harder than 6c in my book.
Anyway, do you fancy the Cave on Tuesday Jim?
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shit, forgot clm had done 2 new probs! meant his prob in wilton 2(?). doubt crack whores been repeated cos its a bag of wank
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Wow, what a guy. What's the Wilton 2 prob? Common/Local/can'trememberwhichwasdecided Knowledge? Crack Whore looks like a good line but sounds like it's not great.
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shit, forgot clm had done 2 new probs! meant his prob in wilton 2(?). doubt crack whores been repeated cos its a bag of wank
Pah! Liard still easier than remergence. 2 lee! You are ignoring my obscure sw scitland glut.
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i think LIARD is easier than 6c. Depends if you french to the lip or not but still very straight forwards. Id even go so far as to suggest 6b. There are certainly harder 6a+ in the forest.
I've done it in wellies. Not 6c.
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What does remergence get? Its easier than that.
No it's not.
Way easier.
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Remergence - 6b, shit problem
LIARD - 6c, great problem
:wave:
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[/quote]
The groove on the useful block (without the crack) is ridiculously hard for 5+.
[/quote]
:agree: ...... I was going well on slabs last year , managed the 6a on the Lone Boulder and the 6b on the right hand end of the little slab next to remergence , but I couldn't even get started on this little sod .....
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i think LIARD is easier than 6c. Depends if you french to the lip or not but still very straight forwards. Id even go so far as to suggest 6b. There are certainly harder 6a+ in the forest.
I've done it in wellies. Not 6c.
BOOM! :lol:
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Sick at Higgar feels very difficult for 5+. Can we have at least 6a please
Cheque's in the post
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Tiger (on the tank) is seriously hard for 6a. Probably a 6b at least.
Heartily agree with this, even if it's a one-move-wonder I've still found many 6c-7as with far easier crux moves than this.
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Sick at Higgar feels very difficult for 5+. Can we have at least 6a please
:agree:
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Tiger (on the tank) is seriously hard for 6a. Probably a 6b at least.
Heartily agree with this, even if it's a one-move-wonder I've still found many 6c-7as with far easier crux moves than this.
I didn't realise that it was in at 6a; that's just crazy talk.
One move probs are always hard to grade, but if I was... oh.... fuck the analysis - I'll give you £50 to bump it up to 6b+
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I'll donate £100 if it gets removed from the list. Shit problem.
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Tiger (on the tank) is seriously hard for 6a. Probably a 6b at least.
The groove on the useful block (without the crack) is ridiculously hard for 5+.
Sick at Higgar feels very difficult for 5+. Can we have at least 6a please
Useful - thanks. I'm taking note.
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Agree with upgrades for both Tiger and Sick. Even if that's upgrading them to 7a.
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From the point of view of someone who's spent way too much time on Churnet 6's;
-The little groove (problem 10 in the old guide) right of the undercut and sloper problems at Wright's Rock is never 5+, maybe I'm using a completely duff sequence but it felt around 6b (and miles harder than the 6a just right of it)
-Jill the Traverse is way too hard for 6b unless you can lank past the crux, 6b+ or even 6c in my book
-Problem 2 at Gentleman's Rock (the problem furthest left starting from a low ledge and finishing on jugs) should be 6b rather than 6c
-The central part of the Virgin Wall Traverse is probably too easy for 6b+, especially compared to some of the other traverses of a similar difficulty in the area
-Each of the sit starts at Cottage Rocks (the 6a and the 6b) should go up half a grade also imo.
Hope this helps/hasn't bored you to death Ru...
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what about full power, soft on the g etc?
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Useful - thanks. I'm taking note.
Good, I'm glad it is helpful info.
I thought of a couple other problems that have potentially errant grades. When i started out i did't think there were many 6as to aim for. There where however, several very hard 5+s, which in hindsight are probably worthy of upgrades. Cleo's arete, the arete between the quarries at burbage south and sick (mentioned already by someone) are three toughies.
A couple very easy problems for the grade are, roof goof (not 6b, maybe 6a/+). The 6c wall left of the 7ball at burbage south is very easy for the grade (sorry can't remember the number in the guide, it is also left of jason's mantel). 6b right of razor roof is soft i reckon.
Hope that helps. If not, please disregard.
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Just to give another view, I thought Tiger was ridiculously easy for 6A. Pull on with two good crimps and reach for a jug? :shrug:
It certainly wouldn't get anything more in Font.
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Just to give another view, I thought Tiger was ridiculously easy for 6A. Pull on with two good crimps and reach for a jug? :shrug:
It certainly wouldn't get anything more in Font.
I guess the problem is the crimps are good, but the feet are pretty small. I think because it is a one mover and essentially all about finger strength there will always be a spread of opinions. Also I've done much easier problems in font with higher grades, so swings and roundabouts i guess.
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Now you mention 7ball, it's not really 6c is it? Always had my arse handed to me on a plate every time I've tried it.
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What does the Fin at Gib Tor get, 6c sandbag?
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I take it some of you guys got some good crack this christmas :shrug:
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Tiger isn't hard- the crux is committing to the pain of catching that bastard crystally edge thing.
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So it's bog standard 6c then i take it! thought i heard somewhere it might be 7a, us punters need all the help we can get.
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Tiger is nowhere near 7a. 6b maybe.
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Oooops bare with, talking about The Fin, Gib Tor, wish i hadn't asked now :-[
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Oh! I did the Fin one summer a long time ago when 6c was about my limit for one session - felt about fair, maybe 6c+?
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Just to give another view, I thought Tiger was ridiculously easy for 6A. Pull on with two good crimps and reach for a jug? :shrug:
You are a crimp hero who can boulder significantly harder than 6A (like 5 or 6 full grades or something), so your opinion on the grade of crimpy problems that are so far below your level will be like Sloper trying to give an opinion on how much better KFC is compared to Burger King; or me trying to differentiate between 4 and 4+.
I find doing Tiger first go just as hard as doing The Green Traverse (no heels obviously) first go. In fact, to give it a local comparison, I find it to be the same difficulty as Attitude Inspector.
No wonder I don't write guide books.
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From the point of view of someone who's spent way too much time on Churnet 6's;
-The little groove (problem 10 in the old guide) right of the undercut and sloper problems at Wright's Rock is never 5+, maybe I'm using a completely duff sequence but it felt around 6b (and miles harder than the 6a just right of it)
Agree
-Jill the Traverse is way too hard for 6b unless you can lank past the crux, 6b+ or even 6c in my book
Harder than 6b even if you can lank past it, 6c would be fair
-Problem 2 at Gentleman's Rock (the problem furthest left starting from a low ledge and finishing on jugs) should be 6b rather than 6c
Rekon 6C if you do moon jumper version off this (to the rail using the flake) 6b to the brake.
-The central part of the Virgin Wall Traverse is probably too easy for 6b+, especially compared to some of the other traverses of a similar difficulty in the area
No idea not done
-Each of the sit starts at Cottage Rocks (the 6a and the 6b) should go up half a grade also imo.
These seemed fine as they where to me.
Others for the area would be Bizarre 7b or 7b+ would be closer to the grade. High Speed Imp Act is 7a imo Fingers the same.
Also like to say that I agree with coments about the fin at Gib being more like 7a found it tough compared to other things around there.
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On High Speed Imp Act, this was only my second '7a' and I wouldnt give it more than 6c+ (if anything it felt more lie 6c - I almost flashed it). Couldnt believe it gets 7a+ (I think?)
Is Jill the traverse the one at Gentleman's, or is that a different one? The long traverse at Gentleman's was hard for the grade, cruxy.
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**H Top (the standing start to Danny's Problem on the business boulder, IIRC) is surely damn hard for 7a....
:shrug:
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On High Speed Imp Act, this was only my second '7a' and I wouldnt give it more than 6c+ (if anything it felt more lie 6c - I almost flashed it). Couldnt believe it gets 7a+ (I think?)
Is Jill the traverse the one at Gentleman's, or is that a different one? The long traverse at Gentleman's was hard for the grade, cruxy.
Yeah it's the long left to right traverse at gentleman's. With regards to HSIA can't really see how it could be 6c/+ especially compared to the 6c nose problem to the right of it, seems to be a world of difference between the two to me (bear in mind I'm short, haven't managed either and can't dyno for shit though so apply mounds of salt liberally to all of the above).
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Think soft 7a is fair for high speed theres plenty of softer 7a's about most of which have already been mentioned. Being short would make high speed quite a bit harder as its big moves between good holds.
Oh as mentioned by someone else the pink wall eliminate at roaches upper tier (right of joes arete) is no more than 6c imo too.
Anyone else think that minstral start on calcutta buttress is nails for the 6a it gets? might have missed something with it but it felt more like 6b+
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**h top has never seen 7a, its at least 7b
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Just to give another view, I thought Tiger was ridiculously easy for 6A. Pull on with two good crimps and reach for a jug? :shrug:
You are a crimp hero who can boulder significantly harder than 6A (like 5 or 6 full grades or something), so your opinion on the grade of crimpy problems that are so far below your level will be like Sloper trying to give an opinion on how much better KFC is compared to Burger King; or me trying to differentiate between 4 and 4+.
I find doing Tiger first go just as hard as doing The Green Traverse (no heels obviously) first go. In fact, to give it a local comparison, I find it to be the same difficulty as Attitude Inspector.
No wonder I don't write guide books.
As a crimp nobody with fingers like soggy noodles I can definitely say that on the few times I've been on this ( after being encouraged by the good Mr Sharpe of this parish who told me it 'was a peice of piss ' and then ably demonstrated how to do it :bow: ) it feels fucking desperate .....
Plus I'm probably one of the few members of this forum who CAN tell the difference between a 4 and a 4+ and the vagaries in the guidebooks for problems around those grades are considerable ......
Cleo's Arete is hard for 5+ , but I don't think it warrants 6a ( it only took me two sessions to sort it out , compared to the four I spent on pebble arete ) and strangely I don't find it as hard as the arete on the sheep ( ? ) which gets a 5 ( I don't think I'm the only person who finds this particular problem tricky ) ......
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**h top has never seen 7a, its at least 7b
:agree:
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"Gibbering right" at Gib Tor is hard for 6C+ and a good problem. I rekn it should get 7A.
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"Gibbering right" at Gib Tor is hard for 6C+ and a good problem. I rekn it should get 7A.
I agree with this.
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I dont... Theres nothing wrong with any of the grades at Gib Torr.
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**h top has never seen 7a, its at least 7b
agreed
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Tiger is nowhere near 7a. 6b maybe.
:agree: 6b+ absolute tops.
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At last something I feel qualified to talk about. As a weak punter tiger feels much harder than 6a, I'd say top end 6b/6b+
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here's a punters opinion on a few punter problems that no one else is bothered about.
Tiger 6b/6b+. its hard.
remergance and hanging rib both 6b
strawberries 6b+ or maybe even 6c :jaw:
all stuff at secret garden gets a point added on because they are all bloody hard. :P
roof 2 at over owler tor. 6c? felt hard for a v4 and looks like a hold has broken off?
NTBTA 6c.
the smeary one at burbage south without the crack 6a/6a+
the v4 next to west arete at burbage west 6c for anyone under 7ft. :P
sorry for bringing up problems that no one really cares about :P
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I'd resisted until now...............but hey ho:
Terrace - 7b+ seems fair as it's only a touch harder than Zaff's
Arete@Remergance - This is closer to 6c than 6b. Much harder than Remergance
Blind date - Standard 7b+. Use a heel if you are small
Blind Fig - 7c. Did I see this in the 7+8's as soft? Check the YYFY starting post by Jim for grade slip
WSS - Didn't do this when the pebble was on but 7b+ seems fair for this style. Easy to repeat so hard to grade. Sit start adds a bit ;)
Early Doors is easier that Gorilla
Brass Monkey's - 7c if you are short. 7a if you dab like Cowboyhat :whistle:
Press 7b+
Strawberries shouldn't be in the guide as it's log and easy
BenP just said that all we do is downgrade stuff in the Peak as there are no new problems to climb and this is what people do to express themselves. I kinda agree. I also think that grit is hard to grade as problems are easy to repeat. I can't think of anything on grit that I've done that I couldn't re-climb again in a couple of goes or at worst a session, that couldn't be said for granite/Font/Cave etc
Oh and can someone please name a new route 'Soft 10 mins'. Thank you
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Strawberries is easy for limestone lovers and hard for grit-stoners... generally.
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Arete@Remergance - This is closer to 6c than 6b. Much harder than Remergance
Hmm I know a lot of people think the arete is harder than then mantle...
speaking for me 'tis the other way round, but then I suck at mantles...
Early Doors is easier that Gorilla
Gorilla is more thuggy, Early doors is more technical/techniquey - I found the current grades about right but then thuggy suits me better than technical/techniquey
BenP just said that all we do is downgrade stuff in the Peak as there are no new problems to climb and this is what people do to express themselves. I kinda agree.
:agree:
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Arete@Remergance - This is closer to 6c than 6b. Much harder than Remergance
Hmm I know a lot of people think the arete is harder than then mantle...
speaking for me 'tis the other way round, but then I suck at mantles...
mantle?
do you mean rock over. people only find this hard because they do nothing with their trailing leg
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mantle?
do you mean rock over. people only find this hard because they do nothing with their trailing leg
Mantle onto the slab...
Rock over onto the slab...
whatever you call it's not something I excel at, too much limestone and plastic and not enough grit I suspect...
On another point I do find from a personal point of view there's a big fistful of "if I can do it it can't be such and such a grade" involved in this sort of discussion.
This is especially true when coming back to a rock type/area after a long break, maybe due to living in the south ( :'() or due to the rock being out of season, during which the person in question has got stronger/more skilled on plastic/other rock types etc leading to the idea that the grades must be soft.
I have this problem when grading at the wall I set at, I never grade anything harder than 7a+ (actually I graded something 7b last week but will probably fold and write it up as 7a+) because I have a block that anything I can could possibly be harder than that despite the fact that I've climbed 7b+ on a number of rock types and on plastic (naturally those problems must have been soft).
Whether or not this is a reaction against the young turks that go around spraying about all the inflated grades they think they've climbed and the "less decent" local walls that seem to happy put up "ego grades" to keep the punters happy I don't know....
This has probably drifted a little off topic but its what has been bouncing around my head whislt reading this thread...
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What about Brad Pit, surely this isn't 7c+?
Same with Ben's Roof; yeah, the old way was 7c+ but the knee beta means a lot of people could now eliminate the hardest bit (like i did).
I'd be happy to take 7c for both. I don't really understand why these aren't being down-graded and other things are; surely these are stand-out discrepancies as they are well known, classic problems?
I also think WSS should be 7c now but more debateable.
Agree with Kudos upgrade (original way is nails!)
Agree with Terrace 7c
The Storm felt like 7b+ for me unless you were to use a toe (7c) Giza felt similar to the storm (but i didn't do it)
I think Blind Date could be hard 7b but blind fig defo 7c and super-conditionsey.
Out of interest, what's Columns (Roaches, Tetris Block) going in at, 7c+?
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Do you not think that Ben's Roof might be a bit harder if you can't reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the knee bar still in? Most people can't reach that.
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some long-shinned twats can't even get the knee bar in.
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Long shins has to rank as one of my favourite excuses. Are you sure it's not just poor ankle flexibility?
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I've got longer shins than The Sausage I'll have you know. We measured them. It was a real 'Brokeback' experience.
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Ooh... never head the long shins
excuse reason, excellent - another justifrication for when I get burnt off by short arses normal sized people ;D
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Do you not think that Ben's Roof might be a bit harder if you can't reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the knee bar still in? Most people can't reach that.
Given that I can reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the kneebar still in I'd assume that most people can reach that. I say this as one of the shorter members of the UKB midget collective.
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I think there's more than one kneebar to be had on bens - pretty sure some shorties have done it with multiple kneebars.
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For a few of the problems I can remember doing in the peak;
Blazin 48's 8a
Walk on by 7c+
Terrace 7c (felt hard for me and wouldnt argue with 7c+ but thats grades for you)
Brad pitt 7c
submergence (matching) 7c
WSS 7b+ ( even without the pebble, people find this hard only because they have no technique ;) )
Giza 7b (flashed this the same day after doing the terrace, Percy trying to sand bag me on that one)
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Do you not think that Ben's Roof might be a bit harder if you can't reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the knee bar still in? Most people can't reach that.
Given that I can reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the kneebar still in I'd assume that most people can reach that. I say this as one of the shorter members of the UKB midget collective.
That's strange. I spent a fair bit of time there last summer while a mate projected it, and the only people who I saw who were able to do that were tall. I can't, and my mate, who has a slighty larger reach than me couldn't.
I think there's more than one kneebar to be had on bens - pretty sure some shorties have done it with multiple kneebars.
The second kneebar is really marginal and poor compared to the main one. I'm not really sure if it's worth the effort for the weight it takes as it's hard to place correctly and pretty painful too. Kanye and Emma sacked it off pretty quickly.
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maybe their shins are too long/short.
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I definitely got it with the kneebar still in, although I am prepared to accept that I'm odd. A friend of a similar size could also get the hold but found it impossible to release the kneebar without swing off so instead utilised some bicycle type footwork shenanigans. I'd say reaching the hold was OK but taking out the kneebar was the hard bit (still easier than Powerband though...)
I am definitely a stump, 5'6" on a tall day. Dunno how long my shins are though...
In fact I met you down at the Tor didn't I? Probably summer 2009 I'd guess??
Ah the joys of grading.
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I certainly can't get it with the kneebar in place. Didn't the real shorties who used the kneebar get soe filthy non undercut to remove the knee and then get the LH hold?
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Curtailing the swing after using the kneebar is by far the crux of the problem when done that way, really body tensiony and quite tiring, i.e. you can get to the move fully fresh, get out of the kneebar and then just fade like fuck on the next move, even if you can do that move a dozen times on the trot in isolation. Pretty satisfying when it works though.
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I certainly can't get it with the kneebar in place. Didn't the real shorties who used the kneebar get soe filthy non undercut to remove the knee and then get the LH hold?
You use the filthy non undercut to place the second knee bar if you use it (another reason not to, as that undercut is grim). If you don't use the second kneebar you can use a nicer hold to get into the bicycle for the move to the sidepull slotty thing.
A big issue when trying to reach and use the slotty sidepull off the kneebar is arm angle. The smaller you are the less vertical your arms are when releasing the kneebar and the more violent and tensiony curtailing the swing out is.
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I am definitely a proper shorty.
I definitely got the left hand slot/sidepull/crimp thing with the kneebar still in (I only used one kneebar). I might have used a toe hook or something to get the kneebar out, can't really remember, but taking it out was the hard bit (harder for the short ;)). Honestly once I'd worked out a sequence reaching the slot with the kneebar in was pretty steady. Maybe I was using a different kneebar to everyone else :shrug:
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I am definitely a proper shorty
sex change recently?
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I guess that move may have fitted me quite well.
After I got the incut thing with my left i stabbed a foot up on to the big pinch before swinging feet onto the sidewall. Once I got that move sorted i knew i could do it reliably, provided i didn't fall off the start! I guess this is the reason i think the knee beta makes it much easier, because it increases your percentage on getting through the crux and it's just a matter of holding it together after that.
I'm not saying i found it easy, just no harder than powerband. Also, when i tried staminahumps subsequently that problem felt a LOT harder.
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The Storm felt like 7b+ for me unless you were to use a toe (7c)
:greed: :greed: :greed: :greed:
I'll take that ;D
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I'll take that ;D
and party? (http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/yk9c6qvg/TakeThatTakeThatParty.jpg)
I think when I did the storm I said 7a+. Probably a bit harsh in retrospect.
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Just a tad!
I think the issue with problems like the storm is that it does feel easy when you do it because of the kind of climbing. You can't really snatch between good holds and get away with it because the holds are actually pretty toss. It felt fairly straightforward when I did it but that's ignoring the 3/4 (5,6,7....) sessions I'd had on it before where I couldn't hold the holds, get my foot up, rock over etc.
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I am definitely a proper shorty
sex change recently?
:)Damn Dave and his funky jive talk...
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Just a tad!
I think the issue with problems like the storm on gritsone is that it they does feel easy when you do it them because of the kind of climbing. You can't really snatch between good holds and get away with it because the holds are actually pretty toss. It felt fairly straightforward when I did it but that's ignoring the 3/4 (5,6,7....) sessions I'd had on it before where I couldn't hold the holds, get my foot up, rock over etc.
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The UKB midget collective.
Didn't I hear that you guys are on tour this year with Carter USM and Ned's Atomic Dustbin ...?
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Just a tad!
I think the issue with problems like the storm on gritsone is that it they does feel easy when you do it them because of the kind of climbing. You can't really snatch between good holds and get away with it because the holds are actually pretty toss. It felt fairly straightforward when I did it but that's ignoring the 3/4 (5,6,7....) sessions I'd had on it before where I couldn't hold the holds, get my foot up, rock over etc.
Let's change it simply to Re: issue: Downgrade Peak Limsestone/Cash for grades :-\
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I can reach the undercut crimp on Ben's Roof easily from the knee bar, but couldn't do it that way because the release was too hard - IMO, even if you're 6ft 2 it's easier to use the 'shorties' way and get it after taking out the knee.
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The left hand chicken head at on Ten Inch Zombies at eatswood has snapped off seems a lot harder now, didn't do it so can't suggest a grade. Thought i'd mention it as it seems to be a pretty recent change and could effect the guide.
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What about Brad Pit, surely this isn't 7c+?
Same with Ben's Roof; yeah, the old way was 7c+ but the knee beta means a lot of people could now eliminate the hardest bit (like i did).
I'd be happy to take 7c for both. I don't really understand why these aren't being down-graded and other things are; surely these are stand-out discrepancies as they are well known, classic problems?
I also think WSS should be 7c now but more debateable.
Anybody who thinks Ben's roof is the same the grade as WSS should have their opinion automatically disregarded...
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The left hand chicken head at on Ten Inch Zombies at eatswood has snapped off seems a lot harder now, didn't do it so can't suggest a grade. Thought i'd mention it as it seems to be a pretty recent change and could effect the guide.
Some chump must have used it as a foothold. That or the phantom eatswood chipper again. Random chicken heads and flakes have come off over the years, often not holds, which would suggest it might be the work of local youths or the farmer. Either way, grrrr! It'll be at the least a grade harder now I'd have thought. Is there anything left of it, or is there nothing left to pull on?
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Nothing left worth much really. Was trying it using the right hand slopey chicken and a left hand in a slopey crease just left of it then up to more nothingness which leaves you quite far right of the good hold in the face. You will have to go and see if you can make something work on it
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Anybody else think The Rose and the Self-employed Businessman should be more than 7a+? Maybe I'm just weak or shit, but I can't touch it!
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Anybody else think The Rose and the Self-employed Businessman should be more than 7a+? Maybe I'm just weak or shit, but I can't touch it!
Maybe MC Hammer?
MC Hammer - U Can't Touch This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo#)
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which bit are you struggling with? I reckon the moves through the undercut are easier for the short, the better footholds are in just the right place.
Harder than Full Green for me but the GT section plays to my strengths, easier than Hampers Hang but I have no stamina.
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which bit are you struggling with? I reckon the moves through the undercut are easier for the short, the better footholds are in just the right place.
I thought it might be a midget-morpho issue. I can't do the move off the undercut, and I can't even attempt the moves afger that. I find the traverse of the slopey shelf hard emough!
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not read the whole thread.
trackside arete-6c/6c+ surely not 7a-actually feels easier than strawberries to me
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Probably all obvious beta but the move off the undercut is done facing left with a drop right knee, the next is just a big press and when traversing the shelf don't match the final hold but make the move up off one of the little crimps out right. Pretty conditiony as well I think.
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which bit are you struggling with? I reckon the moves through the undercut are easier for the short, the better footholds are in just the right place.
I thought it might be a midget-morpho issue. I can't do the move off the undercut, and I can't even attempt the moves afger that. I find the traverse of the slopey shelf hard emough!
The move off the undercut is OK if you use the right footholds. Are you egyptianing? and the knowledge on traversing the slopey ramp is the slap up left early. Don't traverse all the way to the end of the ramp before going up. The crux is coming through on the diagonal rail after the undercut, which is more balance than anything. Get your left foot right across and hang as low as you can whilst floating across to the good crimp.
Oops, sorry Nai, I've just mostly repeated you there.
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Does that apply to those of 6' or over?
What is the right foot Egyptianing on?
Sorry for hijacking your thread Cofe. Trying to swing it slightly back onto course, does anybody else agree? It sounds like not.
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Does that apply to those of 6' or over?
That knowledge definitely works for the tall too. I can't see how it's going to be any easier for the short really. The fact that the undercut is high should make it harder.
What is the right foot Egyptianing on?
The one I'm talking about is quite low. More of a slight back step that a full on eqyptian. It's in the vicinity of the crimps on Jerry's. Just right of the top crimp maybe?
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What is the right foot Egyptianing on?
The one I'm talking about is quite low. More of a slight back step that a full on eqyptian. It's in the vicinity of the crimps on Jerry's. Just right of the top crimp maybe?
I think RF here is on the pinch on jerrys.
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Do you mean the sidepull dave? I didn't use any pinches on Jerry's. There are a few options for your right foot but most people use a higher hold than that. I use the top of the feature that the sidepull is on (I've just looked at a picture to refresh my memory), some people prefer slightly higher again.
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Do you mean the sidepull dave?
yeah, probably.
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rose is no harder than 7a+
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can dick williams go back up to 7b+ now please, couldn't do it today, felt hard (although only had 2 hours sleep)
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not read the whole thread.
trackside arete-6c/6c+ surely not 7a-actually feels easier than strawberries to me
I'm sure you reckoned font 5 last time you mentioned it to me :whistle:
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At Curabar, whats the score with the little hanging arete on the downhill end of the featured slab just before the Gorilla Warfare bear pit? The SS gets 7a in the old guide, but the SS seemed impossible (i.e we couldnt get close apart from pulling on), Stand is piss, but there was a squatting start (two opposing edges and a high left foot) that made a really nice problem.. felt about 6b-6c ish... :shrug:
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That sitter is about 7a/+, just got a disproportionally hard first move.
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That sitter is about 7a/+, just got a disproportionally hard first move.
OK - is it just a pull on and a long snatch up with the RH? (can't believe I spelt Curbar wrong!)
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Yeh that snatch from sitting isnt too bad, but the full traverse is tricky in a few sections!
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I've missed all this thread. Damn. I would even have agreed with some of you.
Badger - 7a/+.
born slappy - 7a+/b
the sitter to the hanging arete at doxy's pool - 7b
moontan - 7b
Hamper's Hang - 7b - this is a stupidly long problem, two grades extra for needing stamina please. I know lots of 7c'ers who have failed.
triptych - not a 7
hurry on sundown sitter - unless you have big feet, using the not-a-chockstone isn't dabby. anyway, I just copied JB.
the undercut at wright's - 6a? - only 7a if you use the undercut instead of just reaching through off the pocket
nigel's problem at secret garden (the one using two poor slopey crimps to gain the flake) - 6b+ if you heel-toe, only 7a+ if you are using a whack sequence
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Hamper's Hang - 7b - this is a stupidly long problem, two grades extra for needing stamina please. I know lots of 7c'ers who have failed.
it's just too long for bouldering grades to be useful
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the undercut at wright's - 6a? - only 7a if you use the undercut instead of just reaching through off the pocket
:o Really? i haven't done it either way but so far the undercut method feels more doable, surely not 6a unless I am missing something? :-\
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My two pence on a few problems:
Little richard 7a+, harder than early doors
The Sheep 7a, harder than trackside
Tiger 6b, definetly not 6a
Dish Grab and black hole start at calcutta buttress 6b and 7a respectively (upgraded in recent bmc guide for no apparent reason)
Moon Jumper, jill the traverse and the two finger pocket problem, all at gent's rock, all 6b+
Toms original at stoney, 6c/+
Kudos easy way 7b, dunno about the other methods
Millers tale ss 6c
If mrlh is stayin at 7a then the one that starts for the 7b and finishes up the flake should probably be 7a+
Hemline is not 7b whoever said that earlier in the thread :)
Agree with chris05 the undercut is just not 6a, unless u use a ladder
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that hanging prow near zorev - 7a+, i guess 7b+ was a misprint?
the 7b+ elim on the classic arete problem - 7a+/7b with the heel
undercuts to crimp problem at raven tor - 7b
all sit down - 7b
my apple - 7a+
fuji heavy industries - 7a/+ with egyptian
bin laden's cave - 7a
sidepull wall, roaches - 7a
classic arete problem, b.south - 6c+/7a
Entrance Slab, b.south - 6c
basher's problem rh - 7a
dirty bitch - 6c
attitude inspector - 6c
the undercut - I think the trick was to use left in pocket and make a dynamic cross through. felt like I'd been cheated out of a problem as it was so much easier that way.
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can little gem at burbage south get an upgrade, its nails
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the undercut - I think the trick was to use left in pocket and make a dynamic cross through. felt like I'd been cheated out of a problem as it was so much easier that way.
Really? It may just be a complete lack of dynamic technique on my part but I've only ever got close to this using the undercuts. Surely it can't be that much easier?
Edit: Oops, just read chris05's post, yeah what he said
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the undercut - I think the trick was to use left in pocket and make a dynamic cross through. felt like I'd been cheated out of a problem as it was so much easier that way.
Really? It may just be a complete lack of dynamic technique on my part but I've only ever got close to this using the undercuts. Surely it can't be that much easier?
Edit: Oops, just read chris05's post, yeah what he said
you tried left in pocket, high foot and twist body to go over the top with right?
Wait, maybe it was right in pocket, left hand gaston undercut hold, then pull through with right?
Either way, it was miles easier than using the undercut.
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Yes to the first one, no to the second, although I've gotta say the idea of gastoning the undercut sounds very unlikely :shrug:
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yeah ignore that, I've just looked at a pic and that doesn't look right. Also, I checked my records and I definitely did it "without the undercut". was years ago, so I can't remember the exact beta, sorry.
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i too have done it with out the undercut and at the time it felt ok.however on another visit i couldn't touch it.
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Left in the pod crimping under the undercut then roll over with right. Probably about 6c ish using the undercut felt hard 7a but at least it is climbing it as the name suggests you should, not that that should matter when grading
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Just got back from an excellent day at Gardoms and thought I'd say that Bin Laden's Cave, though very good, probably doesn't deserve the 7a+ it gets in the current guide.
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Re undercut at wrights: never used an undercut.crimp pocket with left,feet on nubbins.big slap up with right.prob about 6c
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From the point of view of someone who's spent way too much time on Churnet 6's;
-The little groove (problem 10 in the old guide) right of the undercut and sloper problems at Wright's Rock is never 5+, maybe I'm using a completely duff sequence but it felt around 6b (and miles harder than the 6a just right of it)
-Jill the Traverse is way too hard for 6b unless you can lank past the crux, 6b+ or even 6c in my book
I agree with the groove problem, a little to hard for 5+, 6a+ maybe. I 've always found Jill the traverse harder than the right end traverse so 6c gets my vote.
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Jallo! Here are two problems you should deffinately include:
1) "Kissing the pig" at Curbar. It traverses the lip of the overhang opposite Ben's wall and weighs in at an almighty font 5 - It's good :)
2) "Ridikulus" goes up to the break of the Boggart traverses left and reverses Boggart left hand. Font 6cish methinks. It's less good than t'uther problem but deserves a mention and it might stop people from treating the Boggart like a route.
Also Hamper's mantel and Broken wing aren't 7a.
Cheers darl. :kiss2:
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Just got back from an excellent day at Gardoms and thought I'd say that Bin Laden's Cave, though very good, probably doesn't deserve the 7a+ it gets in the current guide.
perfik cons though matey :)
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perfik cons though matey :)
An interesting point, what condition does a given grade relate to? If something is very conditions dependant, is the given grade for a problem, average conditions, or perfect nick? Surely the latter?
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It gets graded for the conditions it gets done in. So for an extreme example, Monumental armblaster gets its grade for when it's clean and dry because that's when it gets climbed, not for the 95% of the time it's wet and covered in seaweed when no-one goes near it. A less extreme example is the Ace - it's 8b in good conditions because no-one ever climbs it in bad conditions.
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except jerry of course
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Ok, last chance kids. We're finishing stuff off now, so get your final opinions/bribes in...
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God I'm going to regret typing this but:
Niks Wall maybe up to 8A+?
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/06/article-0-0081482500000258-241_224x360.jpg)
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God I'm going to regret typing this but:
Niks Wall maybe up to 8A+?
One step ahead of you sunshine.
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Fuck it, why not call it 8b and be done with it.
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if its not to late. trackside 6c and strawberries 6c :goodidea:
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please tell me wss is 7c
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please tell me wss is 7c
It's always been 7b+
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7C- ??
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The sitter gets 7C doesn't it...
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please tell me wss is 7c
It's always been 7b+
Until the pebble snapped off and it got harder...
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please tell me wss is 7c
It's always been 7b+
Until the pebble snapped off and it got harder...
Ok lets have a soft 7c addition to the guide ;)
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Ok lets have a soft 7c addition to the guide ;)
Isn't that 'The Storm'? Or is that going in at 7b+?
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please tell me wss is 7c
It's always been 7b+
Until the pebble snapped off and it got harder...
Ok lets have a soft 7c addition to the guide ;)
Yes lets! Of course that will mean folk can't tick it in the new guide until they've done it sans pebble...
Isn't that 'The Storm'? Or is that going in at 7b+?
Yep, down to 7b+.
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wasn't storm 7b+ in the last one?
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wasn't storm 7b+ in the last one?
Affirmative
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Columns 7c - Awesome problem but with the right sequence it is actually surprisingly not that hard. V5 into English 6c+/7a, into v6. Great problem with a good balance between power and technical moves.
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English 6c+, is that a grade?
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English 6c+, is that a grade?
Its like a V6 into a Font 6b into French E1.
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Columns 7c - Awesome problem but with the right sequence it is actually surprisingly not that hard. V5 into English 6c+/7a, into v6. Great problem with a good balance between power and technical moves.
So that's route 7c then? Or E6?
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The combination makes perfect sense to me! Ha ha.
Basically there are 6 relatively easy moves, into a hard cr single crux move, into a relatively easy 6 moves.
So basically it doesn't deserve 8a/7c+ for length (its not power endurance), or for its difficulty (there are 7b+ problems with UK 7a moves), so 7c. Which is still hard.
Does anyone fancy commenting on the boulder problem, rather than my strange use of grading systems?
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:no:
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Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but anyone else think the Undercut Dyno at the Roaches is hard for 7a?
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Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but anyone else think the Undercut Dyno at the Roaches is hard for 7a?
Sure. To me it feels min 7b. I don't think any of my 7b+ ish mates have climbed it. All locals too. Three of them have climbed Tetris! And no they are not ALL of short stature.
Having said that I also find stretch and mantel about 7a+!
Time for some last minute upgrades Ru? Add to it Higginsons now back to 7c since hold breakage, the Fink SS 7b+/7c
But I guess we are British so we only ever downgrade.
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I think that Columns is a country mile harder than Tetris, Higginson's Arm, or Fink SS.
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I think Columns is fair at E6. Or in new money, 7c+.
If you've stumbled across an easier sequence than all the ones I've seen, then fair enough. But the crux move (IMO pulling up when the lip is matched to get your foot up) is fucking desperate and way harder than anything on Tetris.
EDIT: What Andy said.
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But I guess we are British so we only ever downgrade.
plenty of things are getting upgrades too.
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I thought hard 7A was about right for the Roaches Undercut dyno (I don't recall flashing any 7B dynos so maybe 7A+ at a push) but maybe it was a high power flukey day.
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If Froggy Dick is 7b then Undercut Dyno is at least a grade easier, so I'd say middlin to hard 7a.
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Tetris is staying at bottom end 7c, and Columns as 7c+, undercut dyno at 7a.
I used to think Tetris was about the same difficulty as Columns (although I've not actually finished Columns off after dropping off before pulling onto the slab), but I've now realised that I was doing Tetris a stupid way. Easy 7c and 7c+ don't seem wrong to me.
I think at this stage we're looking for obvious grading errors rather than endlessly tweaking the grades of the 50 most popular problems. Especially bottom end stuff that might have been a couple of grades out such as that little 5+ wall at Rowtor that's about 6b.
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ok, well speaking of that, if your Rowtor 5+ is your old prob 18, then I failed to make any impression at all on problem 16, the crimpy flake at 6a.
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I think that Columns is a country mile harder than Tetris, Higginson's Arm, or Fink SS.
Fair do's.
I agree it is harder than Tetris , but not much to me. I have only climbed one other 7c+, many years ago and so others are definitely better judges of the grade.
My guess is that taller climbers can use the low foot hold on the right face and struggle to match and get established after the crux due to longer legs. Those a little shorter (sub 6 foot) can't easily use the low foothold and so come round the corner with heal and toe hook (vital for me), then its not so hard to get established with a crafty high left knee! Might explain Ru's earlier view that it was 7b+. Not a big issue. It's a decent problem and is worth a good look. It's nice and easy to work it in sections too.
Have you repeated Higginsons since the key hold breakage (the one under the roof is now about 1/3 of the size? It's still climbable, but a fair bit harder.
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Might explain Ru's earlier view that it was 7b+.
I never thought it was 7b+, just not much between it and Tetris.
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I'm in for an upgrade on Undercut Dyno. I reckon 7B. Did Froggy Dick and Kanguru city in about twenty minutes and i'm 5'8. Undercut dyno is harder for me!
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Undercut dyno is no way 7b. Its easier than buckstone. Maybe 7a+ at an absolute max.
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Tetris is staying at bottom end 7c, and Columns as 7c+, undercut dyno at 7a.
:clap2:
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Might explain Ru's earlier view that it was 7b+.
I never thought it was 7b+, just not much between it and Tetris.
Sorry Ru. I mis-remembered the following
"For me it felt easier than tetris (ie, 7c/V9 ish), as you avoid the cut loose swinging round the corner. Certainly it's stacks easier than the inertia reel trav (low V12/8a+, perhaps even just 8a)."
I guess in the end I have simply found a problem that suits me.
I think discussion on a forum like this is the best way to come to a better consensus on grades.
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Sorry Ru. I mis-remembered the following
"For me it felt easier than tetris (ie, 7c/V9 ish), as you avoid the cut loose swinging round the corner. Certainly it's stacks easier than the inertia reel trav (low V12/8a+, perhaps even just 8a)."
Yeah, I did Tetris a daft way originally with a cut loose from a high toe hook, which I thought was pretty hard. I also used to err on the side of the downgrade, but I've chilled on that front a bit since then...
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Undercut dyno is no way 7b. Its easier than buckstone. Maybe 7a+ at an absolute max.
That's the problem with grading dynos. It's the opposite for me in that I find the Buckstone way easier than the undercut dyno.
For what it's worth I think the Undercut dyno is definitely harder than the other 7a dynos in the peak like Crash 'n' Gurn, Attitude Inspector and the pocket dyno thing on the trackside boulder.
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That's the problem with grading dynos. It's the opposite for me in that I find the Buckstone way easier than the undercut dyno.
For what it's worth I think the Undercut dyno is definitely harder than the other 7a dynos in the peak like Crash 'n' Gurn, Attitude Inspector and the pocket dyno thing on the trackside boulder.
I find the undercut dyno to be exactly the same as the other mentioned, except the Buckstone which I still can't do! As you say... that's the problem with grading dynos.
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Maybe it's just my lanky legs then, but I thought the Undercut Dyno was pretty hard for the grade- much harder than any of the Stoney 7a leaps, or indeed any 7a leaps in Bleau :shrug:
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I spent half an hour on the undercut dyno and failed. By comparison I find the Buckstone dyno quite easy. Perhaps I was having a bad day, but I've never failed on any other peak 7a dynos. My vote is for an upgrade.
If we are looking at bleau comparisons, Vin Rouge is an undercut to jug dyno, and at 7a+ it's at least two grades easer than the roaches dyno.
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are we really discussing the grades of dyno's? :worms:
Binary would work better.
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Have you repeated Higginsons since the key hold breakage (the one under the roof is now about 1/3 of the size? It's still climbable, but a fair bit harder.
Yes, I did it in November.
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The left hand chicken head at on Ten Inch Zombies at eatswood has snapped off seems a lot harder now, didn't do it so can't suggest a grade. Thought i'd mention it as it seems to be a pretty recent change and could effect the guide.
This got a few re-ascents yesterday. I’d guess at it being a grade harder than it was, so now soft 7a+ rather than soft 7a. For my money the new sequence is more pleasant than the original, with tik-takking on sloper crimps instead of yarding on a sharp chicken’s beak.
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All dynos should get 7b didnt think there much difference between undercut, buckstone, vin rouge, or smash.
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This got a few re-ascents yesterday. I’d guess at it being a grade harder than it was, so now soft 7a+ rather than soft 7a. For my money the new sequence is more pleasant than the original, with tik-takking on sloper crimps instead of yarding on a sharp chicken’s beak.
I'm glad it still goes at a similar grade - I always liked that problem.
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I'm really looking forward to this new guide - sounds like there'll be plenty of new spots to visit...
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just a thought but does anybody else agree the left hand hold on the joker seems to be getting better and better. not good enough that i can do it like but it is certainly less conditions dependent and seems highly crimpable without careful slopey finger arrangement.
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just a thought but does anybody else agree the left hand hold on the joker seems to be getting better and better.
Yes.
Anecdotally as its based on years old recollections, but it seems much more positive. Obviously this could be due to many things (maybe my fingers feel stronger?) but I would be prepared to stand up and say it feels much more positive than it used to. This despite the fact I have never done it and only ever pulled on a couple of times, but I have been going to Stanage for many years and usually have a fondle of the holds from the block. Like I say, I can't demonstrate it, but that is my opinion.
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just a thought but does anybody else agree the left hand hold on the joker seems to be getting better and better. not good enough that i can do it like but it is certainly less conditions dependent and seems highly crimpable without careful slopey finger arrangement.
I felt this last Friday and I'm certain its improved significantly where your left hand index finger (mine at least) rests. I couldn't pull on given my left hamstring (ish) is absolutely ruined but this has got to have made things easier.
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If Froggy Dick is 7b then Undercut Dyno is at least a grade easier, so I'd say middlin to hard 7a.
i agree
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Is there a rough idea of when this guide may be in print? I'm torn between dishing out for the current one or continuing to try the same three problems every time I visit the Peak until the new one comes out.
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We'll be at print in the next two weeks, with the book out about 9-10 weeks after that.
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I'm torn between dishing out for the current one...
I'm impressed anyone still has any in stock!
As Cofe has just said (I may've read between the lines a little), just wait and get the new one (with new improved grades).
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Nice one. that was the answer I was hoping for, thanks.
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Not worth starting a new thread so sticking it here.
I did Seranata start today at Stanage left and I'm fairly sure it's not 5+ without frenching it. It's my kind of move and it felt more akin to The Tiger in so extra reach/height may make it more amenable.
I realise it's a nothing problem out of the popular areas.
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I agree. I've done easier 6Bs
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so, The Sheep is going to get 7A in the next guide, yeah?