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the shizzle => shootin' the shit => the log pile => Topic started by: Three Nine on July 10, 2013, 10:28:08 am
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If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom :sick:.
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If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom :sick:.
That's pretty low, even by your "standards"
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If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom :sick:.
That's pretty low, even by your "standards"
:lol: no doubt you've got one in every colour, so you can show how caring you are every day of the week
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From my Karma change description
get fucked you sanctimonious little prick
I assume that you are still trolling, otherwise you really ought to speak to me in person the next time I'm unfortunate enough to be in approximately the same vicinity as you
Lots of people on here know John pretty well and have done for a large number of years, that's why i assumed that you were just trolling rather than being just plain offensive, now I'm not so sure
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The smite was tit for tat; I just can't rise above it.
My post said that I think CAC is totally lame. You disagree. Ok.
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The smite was tit for tat; I just can't rise above it.
My post said that I think CAC is totally lame. You disagree. Ok.
Your use of language is slightly more colourful than tit-for-tat, but anyway
I still think you're just trolling, this is nothing to do with a difference of opinion.
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Oh well. My objection to CAC is that it serves as a vehicle for the promotion of people's self-righteousness, increasing their 'ethical capital' perhaps, in a similar way to celebrities doing charity work in a conspicuous way. The fact that it generates x amount of ££ for cancer research or whatever (which may or may not be a good use of peoples' money) doesn't make up for this in my opinion. You may feel that it does Rodma.
For what its worth, I am not alone in holding this opinion. I even received a text of general agreement from a ukb forum hero after my initial post (don't worry i shan't name names).
I hope my karma smite didn't upset you; i'm sure you'll cope with it as I did with yours.
Edit: dunno if that apostrophe is right
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I hope my karma smite didn't upset you; i'm sure you'll cope with it as I did with yours.
I don't care about the smite, just the language
my opinions of John are exceptionally high, so I don't really mind if it allows people to feel self righteous.
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Three Nine, reckon you've got this one wrong. I've and nearly everyone I know in real life have been affected by cancer. As you get older and have kids of your own I think mortality comes into sharper focus, but I also think my ability to empathise with other's suffering and be impressed by their subsequent bravery has increased massively. People contribute to cancer charities for all sort of reasons, I doubt self righteousness rates highly on that list of reasons (it doesn't for myself, family and friends). By all means you can have a difference of opinion on any subject, but where it is on an emotive and very personal situation that has affected and still affects a lot of us very closely the nice thing to do would be tactful in your criticism and consider the time, place and tone. Rich
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I think I made a distinction between giving to a charity and buying a t-shirt which advertises your giving. Whether or not giving to a particular charitable organization is a good thing or not is a different issue.
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buying a t-shirt which advertises your giving shows your support to his charity
This was John's vision
I'm sure you are right that there will be a proportion of people that have done this for the reasons that you suggest, but i reckon for the most part, people have good intentions
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Well there we disagree.
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Ah well...
The right thing for the wrong reasons?
Is, never the less, the right thing.
Time to hope you never have to walk a mile in that man's Mochasins...
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We differ there also.
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I agree with old man mat. If someone buys the shirt to show off how thoughtful they are... They have still paid their money and are still good avertising for the cause...
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...they're still a dick though...
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Not saying they aren't... Bu as far as the charity is concerned they have paid...
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Publicity is so obviously good for so many reasons!
Who cares if someone wants to gag when they see a tshirt being worn.
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Publicity is so obviously good for so many reasons!
Who cares if someone wants to gag when they see a tshirt being worn.
😄
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Kind of agree with both sides of the debate. Seems a bit of a bandwagon but at least it is raising money for a good cause. I'd rather just donate to Marie Curie and not wear the t shirt given the choice.
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Kind of agree with both sides of the debate. Seems a bit of a bandwagon but at least it is raising money for a good cause. I'd rather just donate to Marie Curie and not wear the t shirt given the choice.
But I think the point is that the vast majority of people wearing t-shirts would never donate to a charity, not out of any selfish-ness but just because it doesn't cross their minds.
The fact that it generates x amount of ££ for cancer research or whatever (which may or may not be a good use of peoples' money)
hmmm in what possible context is giving money to cancer research not a good use of their disposable income?
I (I imagine like alot of others) started climbing because it was rather niche and this mass t-shirt wearing is not my bag and I do not own a "CAC" t-shirt, but I think people saying "everyone who wears one is a dickhead" are frankly arseholes for a number of reasons:
1. As previously stated by many others the majority of people are doing this out of a genuine generosity of spirit
2. to say they are just doing it out of a desire to gain the moral high ground in an effort to gain the alternative culture high ground is hypocritical in the extreme
3. The guy who started the charity obviously holds it very close to his heart and is terminally ill so to denigrate what may be his most lasting mark upon this earth for it not being in keeping with what your view of climbing culture should be seems savagely cruel.
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I agree with Rich here.
Personally I would feel a bit uncomfortable about wearing a T-shirt like that. My charitable donations are my own business and I wouldn't like to broadcast them. Also the term Climbers Against Cancer straight away made me feel a bit uncomfortable and my initial reaction was: "well no one is going to be for cancer!".
Obviously attempting to increase donations to support research into cancer is good. It is just my personal opinion that I don't like the T-Shirts and the name but you can't please everyone and it is clearly a well intentioned and good idea.
Cheers Dave
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...they're still a dick though...
Careful here. I think if we put our hands on our hearts, everyone has done the 'right' thing for the 'wrong' reasons. Even three nine . . . . .
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Careful here.
Sorry i think my post was a bit of a knee-jerk because in my opinion 39 was getting in the neck because apparently t-shirts about cancer are a taboo subject.
i think Davo sums up my feelings pretty well.
hmmm in what possible context is giving money to cancer research not a good use of their disposable income?
Large charities spend lots of money on wages and administration, sometimes in ways that people don't agree with. Although, from what I can tell, John is donating directly to research labs he's selected so this isn't a risk here.
The word "cancer" goes a long way in securing grants for researchers. In my experience many grants/paper working on a cancer theme are a long way off what you'd probably recognise as cancer research (again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing).
"Leave it to charity" is the approach of government to many things, cancer research being one. Some would argue that we shouldn't need to donate so much to cancer research (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2000/jan/05/futureofthenhs.health1?INTCMP=SRCH)
I don't necessarily agree with these points. I'm just trying to point out that it's not black and white.
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I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this. There are lowlifes, and then there are lowlifes. And then there is you. You utterly pathetic excuse for a climber. Show some respect for the work John has dedicated the rest of his time to growing. Totally selfless.
If you don't like it, just keep quiet, yeah....?
Oh and smite away, i couldn't give two shits.
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I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this.
Though it doesn't alter the validity of your other comments, it probably should be noted that this thread was split off from Shauna's blogpile thread, not actually "started" as such.
It doesn't show that its a split thread, which in the case of this thread, is a bad thing as it makes it look like three five nine has started this off his own steam. So whilst i don't agree with him, i take back what i said about you, the thread splitting has made you look unnecessarily wanker'ish!
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Careful here.
Sorry i think my post was a bit of a knee-jerk because in my opinion 39 was getting in the neck because apparently t-shirts about cancer are a taboo subject.
i think Davo sums up my feelings pretty well.
hmmm in what possible context is giving money to cancer research not a good use of their disposable income?
Large charities spend lots of money on wages and administration, sometimes in ways that people don't agree with. Although, from what I can tell, John is donating directly to research labs he's selected so this isn't a risk here.
The word "cancer" goes a long way in securing grants for researchers. In my experience many grants/paper working on a cancer theme are a long way off what you'd probably recognise as cancer research (again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing).
"Leave it to charity" is the approach of government to many things, cancer research being one. Some would argue that we shouldn't need to donate so much to cancer research (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2000/jan/05/futureofthenhs.health1?INTCMP=SRCH)
I don't necessarily agree with these points. I'm just trying to point out that it's not black and white.
Agreed James. I am aware that having certain key words in your grant proposal can seriously up your chances of getting a grant. Everyone plays that game, to a greater or lesser extent. I also agree that a lot of 'cancer' research has only very slight clinical benefits if any at all. I'd even go as far as saying that I think some other charities are more important in my opinion that cancer research charities. But I think criticising anyone for giving money to a charity even if it is for the feeling of self satisfaction or showing off, you are getting very close to a hypocritical stance. Indeed many charities almost rely on the guilt relieving feel good factor of giving to raise money. Some of the comments on here were rapidly approaching a 'holier than thou' point. Sorry to pick on yours. Jamie
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Perhaps this part of the thread could be discarded rather than split, unless anyone still feels like biting or shouting or being angry
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I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this. There are lowlifes, and then there are lowlifes. And then there is you. You utterly pathetic excuse for a climber. Show some respect for the work John has dedicated the rest of his time to growing. Totally selfless.
If you don't like it, just keep quiet, yeah....?
Oh and smite away, i couldn't give two shits.
I say, steady on
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I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this. There are lowlifes, and then there are lowlifes. And then there is you. You utterly pathetic excuse for a climber. Show some respect for the work John has dedicated the rest of his time to growing. Totally selfless.
If you don't like it, just keep quiet, yeah....?
Oh and smite away, i couldn't give two shits.
I say, steady on
Mark, you may not care what people think about you, but show some respect for what John is doing. Yeah?
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At the risk of throwing another log on the pile...
I've donated to CAC via. supporting a friend's bike ride and previously supported other charities both financially and with my time. I think what John's done is great because it's raised a large amount of money; almost none of this would otherwise have been spontaneously donated imo. Like Tim says, people mainly just don't think about charity. John is managing the donations in a very sensible way to maximise impact, considering the somewhat murky actions of some high profile "charities" he can rightfully be proud of this.
Now, I'll never own a CAC t-shirt because I feel similarly to other posters about broadcasting my "good deeds" and would rather continue to support directly when I feel able. But if it is a bandwagon or whatever else you want to use to dismiss it, why does it matter? It's raised a huge amount that's going direct to a cause that touches almost all of us. I don't think it can be legitimately viewed as anything other than positive.
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Three Nine is, I believe, making a philosophical point.
Personally, I find life's little hillocks have ironed out my righteous zeal and dulled my appetite for philosophy.
Perhaps it would surprise many to know that I don't have a CAC shirt.
I choose to support research in my own way and, even more, "end of life" care.
However, John is worthy of respect. A great deal of respect.
I wonder though, Three Nine, if you had realised; that you too displayed the same righteousness, the same zeal (merely inverted), when you chose to voice your thoughts?
You have a valid point, to some degree...
But, I seem to recall something my Grandmother always used to say..
Something about Babies, bath water and not throwing them out together.
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I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this.
Though it doesn't alter the validity of your other comments, it probably should be noted that this thread was split off from Shauna's blogpile thread, not actually "started" as such.
It doesn't show that its a split thread, which in the case of this thread, is a bad thing as it makes it look like three five nine has started this off his own steam. So whilst i don't agree with him, i take back what i said about you, the thread splitting has made you look unnecessarily wanker'ish!
+1 Should be clearer that this is a split thread, as the context changes the nature dramatically in my opinion.
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I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this.
Though it doesn't alter the validity of your other comments, it probably should be noted that this thread was split off from Shauna's blogpile thread, not actually "started" as such.
Mods, you should add something at the top of the thread to make the context of 39's remark clear, it's contentious enough as it is.
edit, luke beat me to it
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If it's meant as a philosophical point then he's no Socrates.
You could always go around wearing a t-shirt with 'Mark Tomlinson Is Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer' written front and back - so you can really display that people shouldn't make a display. No doubt someone would want to join you on that particular bandwagon ride - perhaps they could then wear 'Joe Blogs Is For Climbers Who Are Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer'.
Might not fit on a fucking wristband though.
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If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom :sick:.
As i class myself as a good friend of John's (sharing rooms with him on comps and known him for 8-9yrs now), i think what john has done is great. how many of you can say on your death bed that you've left this kind of legacy?
Ok you dont like the tshirts (also available are hoodies, iron badges and potentially boxer shorts etc; visit www.climbersagainstcancer.org (http://www.climbersagainstcancer.org) to get yours today!), don't slag them off, it's just not cricket.
but if you feel people wearing the same (or similar) attire for charity sickening definately don't go to any Race for Life (http://raceforlife.cancerresearchuk.org/index.html?gclid=CK29sYXwprgCFQ_LtAodP0UAlQ) events near you very soon.
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If it's meant as a philosophical point then he's no Socrates.
You could always go around wearing a t-shirt with 'Mark Tomlinson Is Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer' written front and back - so you can really display that people shouldn't make a display. No doubt someone would want to join you on that particular bandwagon ride - perhaps they could then wear 'Joe Blogs Is For Climbers Who Are Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer'.
Might not fit on a fucking wristband though.
Pete wins the thread :clap2:
If they start making vests I will be seriously tempted, there's some pretty strong colours there. Then again maybe I will just download the poster of the pooch and donate a bit seperately - http://www.climbersagainstcancer.org/wp-content/uploads/CAC-POSTER-1.pdf (http://www.climbersagainstcancer.org/wp-content/uploads/CAC-POSTER-1.pdf) - how the hell was there any debate about her being a DFB, her eyes are lovely.
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maybe I will just download the poster of the pooch and donate a bit seperately - http://www.spermbank.org.uk/sperm-banks-in-the-uk/glasgow-sperm-bank.html (http://www.spermbank.org.uk/sperm-banks-in-the-uk/glasgow-sperm-bank.html)
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Very good :P
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There are many charities out there, some people will be drawn to certain causes whilst finding others totally abhorrent. I personally have issues with Help for Heroes, wrist bands, car stickers and all - but that does not mean I would go into an Army Mess and say so as I respect other people's freedom to give (or not) their money in the way they see fit.
Possibly slightly controversial on here to suggest that people have a right to choose without being abused for it but I'm an idealist and an optimist. As long as it doesn't harm you (and I can see no way in which someone wearing a t-shirt would) then show some maturity and respect for personal choice, never mind the work that the individual charities do.
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Personally I think the CAC shirts are a refreshing change. I'm sick of seeing climbers wearing pro-cancer gear, like those bloody "I love melonomas" and "leukemia rules" shirts.
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There are many charities out there, some people will be drawn to certain causes whilst finding others totally abhorrent. I personally have issues with Help for Heroes, wrist bands, car stickers and all - but that does not mean I would go into an Army Mess and say so as I respect other people's freedom to give (or not) their money in the way they see fit.
Possibly slightly controversial on here to suggest that people have a right to choose without being abused for it but I'm an idealist and an optimist. As long as it doesn't harm you (and I can see no way in which someone wearing a t-shirt would) then show some maturity and respect for personal choice, never mind the work that the individual charities do.
Devils advocate, but re right to choose, how do you think a finalist at the bbc's who wished to donate their disposable income to a different cause would have felt at the athletes presentation? (fb pics so might not show up)
(https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=547767621950259&set=a.547767568616931.1073741885.447413945318961&type=1&theater)
(https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=547767681950253&set=a.547767568616931.1073741885.447413945318961&type=1&theater)
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Devils advocate, but re right to choose, how do you think a finalist at the bbc's who wished to donate their disposable income to a different cause would have felt at the athletes presentation? (fb pics so might not show up)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q77/s720x720/969149_547767621950259_713710484_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/1005292_547767681950253_1046806786_n.jpg)
Need to use the image address rather than the address (right-click "Copy Image Address" or similar) rather than the farcebook page on which they appear.
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I think the problem is that the CAC "brand" is getting a bit rammed down the throat of all those that consume climbing media.
* I respect Shauna et. al. for their athletic achievements, to put it mildly.
* I respect Shauna et. al. as people
* I respect John as a human being who I've never met, who I know is no saint
* I couldn't give a fuck about the CAC charity
* Having the CAC concept rammed down my throat everytime I try to read about my sport pisses me off
* The "if you're against CAC, your for cancer, and that means you're a cunt" storyline pisses me off
I'm just bored of it. I just don't care enough to accept the saturation of my eyeballs. I'd say I'm sorry for that opinion, but I'd be lying. I've passed my acceptance point.
On a similar note, I recently cancelled a monthly recurring charitable donation because the fuckers rang me EVERY SINGLE DAY to try to get it increased and you can't block blocked calls on an iphone. I also hate chuggers, even though I'm for children, for animals, against cancer, etc., I do NOT want my bank details taking on the street in my lunch ten minutes thank you fucking very fucking much you enraging cunts, and I resent the fact that I must restrain myself from beating you into a disk only a few millimeters thick on the pavement using only my bare hands and my anger because I do understand that you don't give a fuck enough either but you're being paid a pittance to mug people on the street for their bank details.
But anyway. We all have a point where we stop caring because it's intruding on the business of not having cancer. Either because of the eyeball saturation, or because you find the quantity of "I don't like cancer" t-shirt wearer showing off unbearable, or because you spot that it transitions into "I don't give a fuck about cancer but I do want the T-shirt that fits in", or whatever.
This is an individual point. If you have cancer, you probably don't pass it so soon, and I have sympathy with that position.
There is absolutely no point at which it is acceptable to tell someone they are out of order, a reprobate, or anything else unfortunate just because they don't want to be advertised at quite so much.
This is a very long way of saying that oOf all the abuse that gets levelled on this form, Adam Lincoln I think yours to three nine, as much of a pecker as he can be, is the worst.
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* The "if you're against CAC, your for cancer, and that means you're a cunt" storyline pisses me off
Bit of an overstatement, but I'm not sure how anyone can be "against" CAC*, the whole concept is as ludicrous as the post that sparked this off. Either you support it, or you're just dis-interested - and if it's the latter, fair enough, just ignore it, and get back to the real issues like kneebars and pre-clipping bolts (not sarcasm, I'd rather discuss that myself and I don't even own a kneepad). As for it being rammed down the throat, it is pretty easy to ignore in the wider context of climbing media (which I do as I'm more interested in climbing)
*although, I suppose, if someone is genuinely "against" i.e. hostile to, disapproving of, etc a charity trying to help people who are terminally ill, then yes of course you're a cunt and you just have to accept that.
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I'm ambivalent to the CAC campaign - Personally I dont think its reached saturation point, but each to their own and I can see why some folk might get annoyed with it. research into Cancer is a good cause, and if people want to support it by buying a T shirt and supporting the CAC campaign fair enough - personally I donate to cancer research and am happy not having a T shirt... I prefer not to wear my donation on my sleeve so to speak.. So I dont think theres anything wrong with liking or disliking the campaign.
On a similar note, I recently cancelled a monthly recurring charitable donation because the fuckers rang me EVERY SINGLE DAY to try to get it increased and you can't block blocked calls on an iphone. I also hate chuggers, even though I'm for children, for animals, against cancer, etc., I do NOT want my bank details taking on the street in my lunch ten minutes thank you fucking very fucking much you enraging cunts, and I resent the fact that I must restrain myself from beating you into a disk only a few millimeters thick on the pavement using only my bare hands and my anger because I do understand that you don't give a fuck enough either but you're being paid a pittance to mug people on the street for their bank details.
This I agree with (aside from the beating people into discs part ;) ) Chuggers are a right nuisance as well as people knocking on my door who get a polite but stern rebuttal...
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*although, I suppose, if someone is genuinely "against" i.e. hostile to, disapproving of, etc a charity trying to help people who are terminally ill, then yes of course you're a cunt and you just have to accept that.
No, I don't accept that. The end does not justify the means. You're being simplistic.
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Must admit I have a bit of a problem with statements like:
If you don’t know about CAC then I am disappointed in you! Go find out and buy yourself a t-shirt. If you do know about CAC and you don’t own a t-shirt then you should do something about that!
I realise Shauna is just being nice and supporting a cause but it helps the whole thing seem similar to the wearing of poppies. When something is made out to be more compulsory than optional then I immediately go the other way. I give money to poppy sellers but I wont wear one.
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I think that different subjects need different ways of expressing our thoughts.
It's a matter or respect.
There's the meaning and there's the sense. If I say that I want to vomit seeing a CAC t-shirt, the meaning is clear, but the sense is not, and it gives room to misunderstandings and general bias, which, given the delicate subject, is not a very good way to express oneself.
If one is so sure about his view - especially if unpopular - as to tell it to everyone, the less he/she could do is to be very specific and very clear; unless trolling, the more delicate is the subject, the bigger clarity effort is required.
My 2 Euros.
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I give money to poppy sellers but I wont wear one.
I'm with you on that one - compulsory charity in schools gets under my skin too - especially when it's made competitive (deliberately or not) does nothing to help those who have less feel they can match up against those who have more.
For what it's worth I have a CAC t-shirt but rarely wear it out, CAC is a little close to "Cack" for me...
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Fuck CAC, what about all this MOON shit that gets rammed down my throat every fucking time I go out climbing. I'm sure Lund is equally fucked off with all the PRANA crap at his local yoga class and Fiend must constantly fight back the rage while queing in his local McDonalds at the sight of all those people wearing clothes, fuckers, why are we obliged to wear clothes? Hey, WHY THE FUCK SHOULD WE!! I AM SO FUCKING ANGRY...
Luckily I have bigger things to worry about, like whether I need a shit or will just a piss suffice?
Jasper you blood-sucking daywalker how dare you not wear a poppy, you cunt.
I think maybe just a piss...
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Must admit I have a bit of a problem with statements like:
If you don’t know about CAC then I am disappointed in you! Go find out and buy yourself a t-shirt. If you do know about CAC and you don’t own a t-shirt then you should do something about that!
I don't. I skimmed past that - en route to trying to get a larger picture of the women's podium trio to open - and it barely registered, I know what CAC is and if I didn't a 3 letter acronym is easy enough for me to remember if I wanted to find out. This is what I don't get, people talking about something that is so easily ignorable as if it is a really offensive means, I dunno like saying something wants to make you vomit or telling someone to get fucked. If it's not interesting then just let it wash over you....surely...
Edit: I realise that I have posted far too much on something that doesn't interest me, bleh. Sorry I am not a charity evangelist, just anti pointless hostility when there are so many more interesting things to rant about.
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Lund - you say you're bored of 'it', bored of what - logos everywhere? If anything I'd say seeing a bunch of climbers standing on a podium or whatever wearing CAC tees is a very welcome change from seeing those same climbers wearing what they normally wear in virtually every single photo ever aired of them in public - their sponsors' logos. Now that is something I do feel is rammed down the throats of all of us - companies pushing their brand and climbers desperate to push their name; via often unremarkable/sometimes remarkable achievements.
I don't at all feel like I've had CAC or anything else rammed down my throat and I'm pretty aware of and read plenty of climbing-related stories. I don't feel the 'need' to donate to CAC - I choose to donate to something out of my own voltion and there's obviously plenty of people in the world having plenty of horrible things happening to them every day - climbers getting cancer is one of a hundred million things to rage against and try to alleviate in some tiny way.
If people feel like they're supposed to conform to certain stereotypes when they encounter something like CAC then I suggest - if you strongly disagree with the concept - that having the conviction to politely but firmly ignore or refute it is superior to making a hamfisted display of slagging-off what is obviously essentially a harmless, well-intentioned idea; especially given what else out there there is that you could be slagging off instead.
That said, I agree with Jasper that as something gets closer to becoming unquestioning convention I'm likely to question it more. But some people need to get some perspective here - if it isn't CAC being pushed then it's Prana/Adidas/Five Ten/Wild Country/over-caffeinated sugary drink company or Audi - or whichever other combo of selling crap and pushing image it is that climbers and companies choose to align themselves with.
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Must admit I have a bit of a problem with statements like:
If you don’t know about CAC then I am disappointed in you! Go find out and buy yourself a t-shirt. If you do know about CAC and you don’t own a t-shirt then you should do something about that!
I realise Shauna is just being nice and supporting a cause but it helps the whole thing seem similar to the wearing of poppies. When something is made out to be more compulsory than optional then I immediately go the other way. I give money to poppy sellers but I wont wear one.
Shauna is involved in the charity, so it is unsurprising that she is promoting it.
It's definitely not compulsory to buy a tee or a sticker or whatever, the amount of coverage that CAC is getting just shows how successful the campaign has been so far.
However, I do know what you mean and i am a fellow non-poppy wearer, but contributor.
i have bought a CAC tshirt and i have worn it a bit, but certainly don't feel the need to be seen in it to the exclusivity of all other available clothing options (it's too hot for shirts on at the moment anyway)
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Must admit I have a bit of a problem with statements like:
If you don’t know about CAC then I am disappointed in you! Go find out and buy yourself a t-shirt. If you do know about CAC and you don’t own a t-shirt then you should do something about that!
I realise Shauna is just being nice and supporting a cause but it helps the whole thing seem similar to the wearing of poppies. When something is made out to be more compulsory than optional then I immediately go the other way. I give money to poppy sellers but I wont wear one.
I agree. Except I wear a poppy, but I don't ever feel that this is compulsory.
At work we have a charity dress down day which I do not contribute to. All the money to the charity comes from the staff, there is no contribution from the company so I feel that it is hypocritical of my employer to expect a contribution out of our wages when they do not have the good grace to match it. If they did this I would see it as a good idea and probably join in, whether or not I thought the charity was the best one to give my money too or not.
P.S. Lund - Nice rant
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But some people need to get some perspective here - if it isn't CAC being pushed then it's Prana/Adidas/Five Ten/Wild Country/over-caffeinated sugary drink company or Audi - or whichever other combo of selling crap and pushing image it is that climbers and companies choose to align themselves with
Key point here Pete, is that nobody gets fuckloads of abuse for not liking Audi. You get me?
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Fuck CAC, what about all this MOON shit that gets rammed down my throat every fucking time I go out climbing. I'm sure Lund is equally fucked off with all the PRANA crap at his local yoga class and Fiend must constantly fight back the rage while queing in his local McDonalds at the sight of all those people wearing clothes, fuckers, why are we obliged to wear clothes? Hey, WHY THE FUCK SHOULD WE!! I AM SO FUCKING ANGRY...
Luckily I have bigger things to worry about, like whether I need a shit or will just a piss suffice?
Jasper you blood-sucking daywalker how dare you not wear a poppy, you cunt.
I think maybe just a piss...
You're just annoyed that they don't do CAC shirts in children's sizes, thus you can't join in and get one.
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Fiend is annoyed they don't do one in orange camo. Come to think of it that really would make me want to vomit. :sick:
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But some people need to get some perspective here - if it isn't CAC being pushed then it's Prana/Adidas/Five Ten/Wild Country/over-caffeinated sugary drink company or Audi - or whichever other combo of selling crap and pushing image it is that climbers and companies choose to align themselves with
Key point here Pete, is that nobody gets fuckloads of abuse for not liking Audi. You get me?
I agree that there is a massive difference between the two.
Adam retracted his statement (once the thread splitting was made clear) and I merely smited for trolling, not for differing opinion and i haven't seen much evidence of anyone getting fuckloads of abuse for putting their reasoned opinions across, but maybe I am missing something.
Are people having virtual punchups over on faceache or by personal message? i hope not.
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But some people need to get some perspective here - if it isn't CAC being pushed then it's Prana/Adidas/Five Ten/Wild Country/over-caffeinated sugary drink company or Audi - or whichever other combo of selling crap and pushing image it is that climbers and companies choose to align themselves with
Key point here Pete, is that nobody gets fuckloads of abuse for not liking Audi. You get me?
No, not really. Nobody's giving three nine 'fuckloads of abuse'?
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Someone above mentioned that UKBers were generally undergunned when it came to non-climbing discussion. I think this thread itself goes some way to showing that interesting reasoned debate can take place here.
Personally, I'm in the camp who think that the charity is doing good work and is worthy of a great deal of respect but who would prefer not to wear a t-shirt. In fact I more than likely would choose not to donate to CAC. Before you reach for the Punter button, that is not because I've instead chosen to wear a Climbers Against Climbers Against Cancer wristband, but because me and the missus already give to MacMillan.
Cancer is fucking shit, to put it lightly. When I hear that somebody I care about has cancer or has died from cancer, then it's devastating. People seem to be snatched away by it when they are far too young. However, cancer is but one of many afflictions that can affect people: lack of access to clean drinking water is another; as is Alzheimers. Donations to cancer research and support charities are a super way to spend your disposable income if you choose, but it does tend to gobble up people's charitable giving to the detriment of other worthy causes.
If anybody would like to sponsor me for a three day bike ride from Morecambe to Scarborough in early September then please feel free to PM me and I'll send you the link. The charity is WaterAid.
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As an aside, when I saw the podium pictures from the BBCs my first thought was "There are some CAC supporters" as opposed to "There are some strong young wads". Not necessarily a bad thing if all the competitors had chosen to use their position in the comp to support the charity. To play devil's advocate, could there have been one (or more?!) amongst them who fall into the same "camp" as I and others - the supporters who would choose not to wear the T-shirt - who felt pressured to wear it in the photo op lest he be labelled The Climber Who Is For Cancer?
I'm sure that isn't the case, but then you only have to look at the upheavals every November when someone dares to step in front of a television camera without (wittingly or unwittingly) a poppy displayed on the lapel. I'm sure climbers are better than that though.
(I'm not sure if this is really relevant to the debate)
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As an aside, when I saw the podium pictures from the BBCs my first thought was "There are some CAC supporters" as opposed to "There are some strong young wads". Not necessarily a bad thing if all the competitors had chosen to use their position in the comp to support the charity. To play devil's advocate, could there have been one (or more?!) amongst them who fall into the same "camp" as I and others - the supporters who would choose not to wear the T-shirt - who felt pressured to wear it in the photo op lest he be labelled The Climber Who Is For Cancer?
I'm sure that isn't the case, but then you only have to look at the upheavals every November when someone dares to step in front of a television camera without (wittingly or unwittingly) a poppy displayed on the lapel. I'm sure climbers are better than that though.
(I'm not sure if this is really relevant to the debate)
I think it might have felt awkward to choose to not wear the t-shirt when the guy dying of cancer was there right in front of them, having judged in the comp despite the fact that he is dying. Respect to him and everything he is doing right now; you might not like the t-shirts but just remember that when you see the top comp climbers wearing the t-shirts it is less about them jumping on the bandwagon and more about the fact that someone they know pretty well is trying to do something he sees as important and good in the short time he has left.
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As an aside, when I saw the podium pictures from the BBCs my first thought was "There are some CAC supporters" as opposed to "There are some strong young wads". Not necessarily a bad thing if all the competitors had chosen to use their position in the comp to support the charity. To play devil's advocate, could there have been one (or more?!) amongst them who fall into the same "camp" as I and others - the supporters who would choose not to wear the T-shirt - who felt pressured to wear it in the photo op lest he be labelled The Climber Who Is For Cancer?
I'm sure that isn't the case, but then you only have to look at the upheavals every November when someone dares to step in front of a television camera without (wittingly or unwittingly) a poppy displayed on the lapel. I'm sure climbers are better than that though.
(I'm not sure if this is really relevant to the debate)
I think it might have felt awkward to choose to not wear the t-shirt when the guy dying of cancer was there right in front of them, having judged in the comp despite the fact that he is dying. Respect to him and everything he is doing right now; you might not like the t-shirts but just remember that when you see the top comp climbers wearing the t-shirts it is less about them jumping on the bandwagon and more about the fact that someone they know pretty well is trying to do something he sees as important and good in the short time he has left.
And that might be the truest thing said so far...
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I haven't read this all through, but good that people are making points on both sides. Just yesterday I was having mods pm me threatening a ban (which is fine, whatever), but seems that maybe it was something people were interested in discussing; its meant to be a forum after all.
Adam and all the other cross people: no I don't have to be all respectful of this chap - I can say I don't like his t-shirts and that they piss me off. If that means I get banned from a forum, i'm sure i'll cope (and no doubt you will too). For the record i've never given anything to a cancer charity and I don't imagine I ever will. Perhaps this makes me pure evil, but I don't want to give the impression that I do lots of secret giving that I just don't want to advertise.
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I'm fine with that personally. You're entitled to your view and I support your right to air it. I actually think the debate is a good thing ( I lost someone very close to me to cancer so I'm far from ignorant of the issues), but your approach might be better leavened with tact.
No taboo, don't soften your stance _ I think you have a valid point- but do try to articulate it with sensitivity when dealing with sensitive issues.
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no I don't have to be all respectful of this chap
How can any human being say that? :o You don't respect his strength, and the stuff he is doing in order that maybe one day, others will benefit?
Funny how in real life you wouldn't say boo too a goose! Hope you develop some nasty terminal disease. Thats my personal opinion, and others may say its harsh, and even bullying, but i mean it from the bottom of my heart.
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You do seem to know a lot about me Adam, though I don't believe we've ever met. Rest assured I don't say 'boo' to passing geese very often, and I certainly hope i'm not too rude to people, but I generally say what I think about stuff - i'd certainly say that I didn't care about CAC and the t-shirts piss me off in 'real life', whatever that is. You seem to have a ton of sand in your vagina, but we don't have to be chums so that's ok.
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ok that post made it sound like I think im a good and reasonable person - i'm certainly not that, but whatever. Bored of this now, as bored as I am of CAC t-shirts. Not going to post again on this topic, hate away!
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ok that post made it sound like I think im a good and reasonable person - i'm certainly not that,
Oh you rebel you. You really want to dispel the image you portray in real life don't you! You could never be taken seriously with those glasses though. That the last i am going to say on the matter too. This is making me angry. When you have lost loved ones to cancer, you may appreciate my anger towards you.
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As an aside, when I saw the podium pictures from the BBCs my first thought was "There are some CAC supporters" as opposed to "There are some strong young wads". Not necessarily a bad thing if all the competitors had chosen to use their position in the comp to support the charity. To play devil's advocate, could there have been one (or more?!) amongst them who fall into the same "camp" as I and others - the supporters who would choose not to wear the T-shirt - who felt pressured to wear it in the photo op lest he be labelled The Climber Who Is For Cancer?
I'm sure that isn't the case, but then you only have to look at the upheavals every November when someone dares to step in front of a television camera without (wittingly or unwittingly) a poppy displayed on the lapel. I'm sure climbers are better than that though.
(I'm not sure if this is really relevant to the debate)
I think it might have felt awkward to choose to not wear the t-shirt when the guy dying of cancer was there right in front of them, having judged in the comp despite the fact that he is dying. Respect to him and everything he is doing right now; you might not like the t-shirts but just remember that when you see the top comp climbers wearing the t-shirts it is less about them jumping on the bandwagon and more about the fact that someone they know pretty well is trying to do something he sees as important and good in the short time he has left.
Pardon me, that's not what I meant. I've never met John but I have the greatest respect for what he's doing. I've no doubt the climbers all personally wanted to wear the tees. And I certainly don't dislike the tees, I just wouldn't choose to wear one (regardless of whether I gave to the charity or not).
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Hope you develop some nasty terminal disease. Thats my personal opinion, and others may say its harsh, and even bullying, but i mean it from the bottom of my heart.
Classy, Adam. you may have been affected by cancer, as have many of us, and 39 may lack tact, but wishing terminal disease on someone? for not respecting someone you do? for not sharing your veiws and your priorities? I'd try looking at rich d's or OMM's eloquent replies. what you've said above is considerably worse than anything 39 has said on this thread.
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Hope you develop some nasty terminal disease. Thats my personal opinion, and others may say its harsh, and even bullying, but i mean it from the bottom of my heart.
Classy, Adam. you may have been affected by cancer, as have many of us, and 39 may lack tact, but wishing terminal disease on someone? for not respecting someone you do? for not sharing your veiws and your priorities? I'd try looking at rich d's or OMM's eloquent replies. what you've said above is considerably worse than anything 39 has said on this thread.
I stand by what i said. Punter away. I really don't care.
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Wishing someone dies horribly for expressing an opinion is at best childish and stupid and at worst extremely offensive. Adam, you're not doing yourself or your argument any favours whatsoever.
There are many people on this thread who have been personally affected by cancer, myself included. Debate is one thing, hoping for a nasty death of someone is another.
No need.
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I'm another of the middle ground holders and so don't have that much of an opinion on cac itself, but the whole idea of needing to respect someone is interesting... do we need to respects Armstrong too?
Also, for a forum that touts itself as being far removed from ukc, threatening to ban 39 for starting a debate that is by no means one sided seems strange...
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Wishing someone dies horribly for expressing an opinion is at best childish and stupid and at worst extremely offensive. Adam, you're not doing yourself or your argument any favours whatsoever.
There are many people on this thread who have been personally affected by cancer, myself included. Debate is one thing, hoping for a nasty death of someone is another.
No need.
I respect your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree then. I wont be looking at this thread again, its not good for my blood pressure.
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Um, Adam?
He's not going to listen.
He doesn't have to, as he would be quick to point out.
History is replete with examples of ideological cant overcoming any semblance of common sense.
I'd like to think he was trolling, but I suspect it might be an example of the above.
Trust me, his lack of empathy, makes me grind my teeth; his desire to thrust that into the faces of others?
Well, that may one day be something he comes to regret. Few people maintain such beliefs into old age, black and white run together with age.
You should not let his opinion bother you.
I, on the other hand, sympathise and understand all those affected by this disease. And any other terminal illness. Or loss and Bereavement.
Those things are not ideas or beliefs, they are harsh realities, not idle contemplations from the arm chair.
John is facing death.
We all do, but his is coming sooner than expected and he can see how close it is. I have now known many such people. His response, is exceptional. Many can barely draw the curtains or leave their beds.
What then, Three Nine, is worthy of respect?
1-5-9 on a campus board?
Running faster than a few other people?
No?
John has earned the respect of many, that he has incurred your animosity is irrelevant.
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do we need to respects Armstrong too?
The guy was the first human to walk on the moon. What more do you want?
:shrug:
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What have we become?
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Fucking hell, just been told about this thread and have to say I am shocked by some of the posts.
For the record I am a trustee of CAC so have had very long talks with John about why it was set up. And it may surprise you that it has fuck all to do with raising money. CAC has raised approximately £100k in six months, which is fucking amazing, but as both John and me know it is pissing in the wind compared with the amount of money raised by Cancer Research UK etc. John's vision is to raise AWARENESS because that can save more lives, maybe if John himself had been screened earlier he might be on a different path now and his hope is that the campaign can save others merely being making them aware of the risks they might face in later life. And lets face it blokes are particularly shit at getting screened.
(BTW it is of course concievable that the money raised by CAC could have an effect especially as it is being donated directly to research facilities rather than fund raising organisations. Who knows, the 15,000 Aussie dollars donated last week might just help fund some researcher who makes a break through)
I am in Chamonix for the European Champs and it is heart warming to see the number of people of ALL ages wearing CAC shirts because I am sure that at least a good number of them will think/realise that cancer messes with most of us one way or the other and that if they get screened or they advise other to be screened then lives can be saved or significantly prolonged.
So for those of you who said they don't like to advertise their good works, well maybe think again.
And for the tit who said seeing the CAC logo makes them vom, well each to their own. I don't wish terminal diseases on you but I do hope that flocks of pigeons follow you around and crap on you constantly.
(Bit pissed here in Chamonix and it's now 1.30am but felt I had to respond)
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Fuck me. I don't particularly like the way TK Maxx and chavs in general are punting Paul's Boutique stuff, but I just accept it, even if it is a ripoff of a Beastie Boys album title in spite of Adam Yauch dying of salivary gland cancer at the age of 47... and every twitterati and their friend lamented his passing...
So, here we have a strong, positive guy, John Ellison, with a terminal cancer, he's going to die - be dead, gone - as Matt and Graeme have said, could just give up and not open the curtains, yet he's doing something here that most of us will never achieve in our lifetimes outside of what we have to do to make a crust at work - and some people are bitching about t shirts? Maybe the same people who wear 'Surfers Against Sewage' t shirts, donate to the bolt fund, bitch about bird bans on crags, really want their right to roam and love the CRoW act and would lament its demise..... If it was 'Climber Against Bolting on Stanage' or 'No Debolting on the Great Orme' everyone would be balls out for it, so why this tirade FFS? What about going to prison if you trespassed on Kinder or even, were put to death for being homosexual?
There's more to worry about - and being afflicted or affected by cancer is a pretty fucking big one, and in my humble opinion, being 'pissed off' by a t shirt is fucking pathetic in the greater context, when people are going about with their arses hanging out of drainpipe jeans and vests are subject to discussion in case they're wack (no offence tomtom), and people are dying far too soon.
My best and oldest friend died of lymphoma 2 years ago - he was a lovely man, 2 months older than me and very fit, active, didn't abuse fags or alcohol, and was like a beacon in the fog - I always knew he was there and could spend time with him and always feel happy and grounded, no matter how I was doing, he was also the guy I did all my early climbing with and even times when my arrogance outdid my abilities, a day on VSs with him would set me right. We did a carpentry course together and talked about going back to the mountains when I had less work on. I could trust him, implicitly, and then one day, he told me he was ill.... less than a year later, he was dead...... gone. Final. I think about him every single day, and wish I'd had one last chat....
So.... some people on this thread, just have a think, about your best mate, your rock.... I didn't wear a CAC t shirt but I've just bought one, and I'll wear it with pride. If you don't like it, I'd love you to come and have a chat with me to discuss the matter.
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Can someone else pls reiterate that they haven't got a t-shirt but of course they donate.
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Just yesterday I was having mods pm me threatening a ban
Adam and all the other cross people: no I don't have to be all respectful of this chap
Two things:
1) what happens in PM stays in PM.
2) you don't HAVE TO, you should naturally be respectful of him. Dislike and respect can go together.
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Hmmm...
I wonder?
http://www.theonion.com/articles/insurance-company-gets-fucked-over-by-another-canc,33101/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Status:2:Default (http://www.theonion.com/articles/insurance-company-gets-fucked-over-by-another-canc,33101/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Status:2:Default)
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I knew nothing of CAC until this thread caught my attention
no such thing as bad publicity, eh?
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A terminally ill man has the motivational resolve of an entire continent and this is how he gets to see his efforts played out.
The matter doesn't need debate; the cause needs funds to contribute towards the advancement of scientific gains and that's all I see to the matter. Quite why a load of chin stroking bollocks here exists is utterly fucking beyond me. It really is.
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apart from this thread, twitter and facebook, is there anywhere else that I should mention my anonymous donation?
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You could take out a banner ad on UKC
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You could take out a banner ad on UKC
what's "UKC" ?
is this another thing that I should be donating to and not wearing a t-shirt?
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A terminally ill man has the motivational resolve of an entire continent and this is how he gets to see his efforts played out.
I expect he really couldn't care; I'm sure he has a lot more on his mind than a couple of utterly inconsequential naysayers.
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Word Chris.
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Some of the posts on here make my blood boil.
CAC is about raising awareness. if one person goes and gets a check up and has a cancer that is caught early then it is all worthwhile. This was something that didn't happen for John it was too late, hence his terminal diagnosis.
I went and had a check, which I would never have done without CAC and John's situation.
Sure the money raised is small compared with what is required but you have to start somewhere, but it is being distributed to research around the world and someone somewhere might just find a cure which will benefit millions of people, and year on year it will grow.
John isn't doing this to promote himself, he would be more than happy to swop positions with anyone who wants to have his cancer, and take his treatment and fade into the background, but that unfortunately can't happen. He has to take the treatment and does so with a smile and all the time trying to raise awareness of this disease that affect's so many of us and is killing him.
To those out there that think this is some ego trip, then first you haven't got a clue about what John is going through or know John, or Shauna who has supported John from the start. And second if you think wearing a CAC T shirt is a statement trying to make out you are some kind of charity giving saint, well its a lot better than some fashion or football brand stamped across your chest.
The CAC brand is global, there are thousands of people happy to support it and that is a testament to its founder John Ellison who is putting the remaining days of his life into raising awareness of this awful disease. I like many in the climbing world are fully behind John and his vision and I will be very unhappy went he can't continue to share it with us.
To those critics I hope that cancer doesn't affect you but if it does then you might wish you had been a little bit more supportive of a great initiative rather than post bullshit.
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If awareness is the goal then maybe a slogan a bit more specific might be good, like something to remind people to "get checked out", or pointing out what exact types of cancer often go undiagnosed in the early stages, or which types suffer from stigma attached to getting yourself checked etc. But then I'm sure if the shirts just said "CHECK YOUR BOLLOCKS/TITS (DELETE AS APPLICABLE)" then nobody would buy them as a fashion/lifestyle statement so its a tough call.
As it stands the t-shirt didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, i.e. I already know cancer exists, and I'd already assumed that all climbers being human beings would be "against" it. But maybe it is helping awareness for some people, I don't know.
For this reason I must admit generally I think we'd be better off donating to cancer research charities rather than buying awareness products. Whether £x would have a more beneficial effect spent on research or awareness is up for debate.
I also appreciate that to anyone who knows John this will probably be taken as a massive slur on the campaign, a personal insult, and render me about as popular as an Alex Megos problem name.
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For this reason I must admit generally I think we'd be better off donating to cancer research charities rather than buying awareness products. Whether £x would have a more beneficial effect spent on research or awareness is up for debate.
Reading what people have posted might help. The money raised is being donated directly to cancer research facilities not to charities that employ lots of people.
The equation is quite simple. Costs of the shirts are approx 20-25% of the sale price and this is roughly how much the big charities cost to run so you are effectively donating the same amount AND raising awareness.
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I'm sure there's plenty of research you could be donating to that don't have 25% overheads. For example wherever the CAC money goes to, whats to stop people donating directly to them and they get 25-33.3% more cash?
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If awareness is the goal then maybe a slogan a bit more specific might be good, like something to remind people to "get checked out", or pointing out what exact types of cancer often go undiagnosed in the early stages, or which types suffer from stigma attached to getting yourself checked etc. But then I'm sure if the shirts just said "CHECK YOUR BOLLOCKS/TITS (DELETE AS APPLICABLE)" then nobody would buy them as a fashion/lifestyle statement so its a tough call.
I have to agree with Dave here.
When earlier on in the thread the topic of 'awareness' was raised I had a look around the CAC website and came to similar conclusions. Call me stupid but I didn't overly recognize it (the shirts) as raising awareness of Cancer (I topped out on one of the best routes of my life to a text that my Gran had died of Cancer that day so my awareness is fairly high).
It (the shirts) and the various sponsored events I've seen people take part in appeared to me like fund-raising (which is no bad thing). However, if awareness is the main goal wouldn't getting a load (the same load) of blokes that spend a fair amount of time training (shirts off) to man up and get checked be more productive?
I remember hearing on the radio a few years ago that there was a guy walking around Sheffield dressed as a giant testicle as his brother had died earlier that year from testicular cancer. An extreme tactic but that made me think more about getting checked myself than seeing a t-shirt.
Hopefully none of the above will be seen as Three Nine style hating on CAC. :worms:
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If awareness is the goal then maybe a slogan a bit more specific might be good, like something to remind people to "get checked out", or pointing out what exact types of cancer often go undiagnosed in the early stages, or which types suffer from stigma attached to getting yourself checked etc. But then I'm sure if the shirts just said "CHECK YOUR BOLLOCKS/TITS (DELETE AS APPLICABLE)" then nobody would buy them as a fashion/lifestyle statement so its a tough call.
I have to agree with Dave here.
When earlier on in the thread the topic of 'awareness' was raised I had a look around the CAC website and came to similar conclusions. Call me stupid but I didn't overly recognize it (the shirts) as raising awareness of Cancer (I topped out on one of the best routes of my life to a text that my Gran had died of Cancer that day so my awareness is fairly high).
It (the shirts) and the various sponsored events I've seen people take part in appeared to me like fund-raising (which is no bad thing). However, if awareness is the main goal wouldn't getting a load (the same load) of blokes that spend a fair amount of time training (shirts off) to man up and get checked be more productive?
+1. CAC has obviously done very well as fund raising, but the only place I've seen raising awareness mentioned as the goal is on this thread.
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+1. CAC has obviously done very well as fund raising, but the only place I've seen raising awareness mentioned as the goal is on this thread.
Well done Paul, you have completely missed the point. John (and to a much lesser extent me) has realised that the best PR campaigns don't actually spell out what the campaign is about.
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Well done Paul, you have completely missed the point.
That was pretty much my point and I'm clearly not alone (unless I'm really confused).
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Finally got around to buying a couple of CAC t-shirts...
I could say that it's because one of my immediate family survived cancer in the past (which they did), or because a friend's father just had a bowel cancer operation (which he did), or because they're a nice selection of colours (which they are), or because they're a decent price (which they are, especially compared to some outdoor make t-shirts in Tiso that were reduced from £32 to err £25, fuck that), or because I needed some new t-shirts (which I did), or because it's an easy way to be a little bit charitable whilst getting something for yourself (which it is).
But, no....
It's because Three Nine is a knob. That's why I got them.
Also because Lund was a bit of a dome about the calendar too. I didn't want a calendar but I still might have a "wank for cancer", just in case.
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I smoke, drink too much, eat a meat and fat rich diet, take little exercise and so on.
So when climbers for cancer kicks off I want a fucking big slice of the donations, it will subsidise some cigars booze and foie gras.
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Could I interest you in a waffer thin mint sir?
I'd buy a Check Your Bollocks (or equivalent ) T shirt (especially if it had a cool CAC logo underneath). I also think T shirts etc do raise awareness if people are aware enough to explain what the charity is about when others ask 'whats that then?'. Then again, I use UKC, and dont even hate chuggers: mild annoyance or occasionally pity is my usual response.