11

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by Johnny Brown on Today at 03:59:50 pm »

As I said earlier, it feels 6a. If it was really easy to climb up the bottom, and there was a better rest, but without impacting the landing, I could see it being E2. If you traversed in from the left for example, which is about 5b, I think you’d be into borderline E2. So you do get something for the start being 7a.

12

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by Fultonius on Today at 03:33:05 pm »

7B+/E4 5c (or whatever the fucking top half of fucking WSS is as I have no fucking idea...) would convey things much better for the soloist.

However, I'd maybe argue by the sounds of things, that the top alone is maybe only E3? So F7B+/E35c?

Can someone now please go out and find a new boulder/micro route and call it:

Weathering the Bell Curve? And grade it E4 Jellyfish? 

13

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by Johnny Brown on Today at 03:25:59 pm »

A tech grade of 7a is entirely and completely meaningless, so I have the same problem with something being graded E4 7a as I do with  something being graded E4 Jellyfish.

 

This has made my day.

Otherwise, the thing to remember with trad grades for micro-routes/ highballs, is that BOULDER PROBLEMS DON’T GET E GRADES. So if the main difficulty on a micro route is a boulder problem, it has very little bearing on the overall grade. Reasons to put WSS up to E5 would not so much bear on the boulder problem, it would be if there was no jugs, no rest, no easy opportunity to traverse off, or more likely a worse landing. Look at The Art of White Hat Wearing for example, which is shorter than WSS and slightly easier, but got E5 because the landing is worse. And if you think I’m mental, remember when the landing was improved, some people lamented the loss of a once proud E5!

14

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by Fultonius on Today at 03:21:21 pm »

Font6B into existing top of WSS: E3 6a
Font6C into existing top of WSS: E3 6b
Font7A into existing top of WSS: E3 6b/c
Font7B into existing top of WSS: E4 6c


It really is that simple.

Case dismissed, your honour....

15

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by cheque on Today at 03:13:12 pm »

Worth keeping in mind that the last guidebook to list WSS with only a trad grade was published in 1991. There’s only ever been one guide that mentions E4 in its description of it since the adoption of bouldering grades and that came out 19 years ago.

16

news / Re: significant repeats

« Last post by Nemo on Today at 03:03:57 pm »

With sport routes and boulders, typically significant downgrades only happen when people find better beta.
The vast majority of people (at least those who travel to at least some extent) climbing at that level tend to roughly agree about grades when they've used the same beta (with obvious exceptions for height dependent stuff etc).

With UK trad routes people can climb exactly the same sequence and yet come up with a completely different grade as they are using a completely different grading system.  That's not sensible.  Sure sponsors, public opinion, beta and all the rest of it are always going to play a part, but sorting out what the numbers are actually meant to represent is a pre requisite to even bothering trying to assign something a number.

17

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by andy moles on Today at 03:03:40 pm »

something being graded E4 Jellyfish.

Sounds about right for some routes on the Orme.

18

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by Somebody's Fool on Today at 02:58:31 pm »

Isn’t there an element to this of preserving something local and interesting by applying a British grade to a grit highball?

I mean you could argue the average Frenchman’s car is much better now it’s a VW or an Audi. But wasn’t France much more interesting when everyone was going round in their Renault 4s?

I don’t think making everything the same the world over necessarily enhances our experience of it.

19

news / Re: significant repeats

« Last post by northern yob on Today at 02:57:11 pm »

The reason why Egrades don’t work at the top end is because they are rarely applied objectively/properly, those at the top end have to contend with their ego’s, public opinion, sponsors etc etc  this is the case with all grades not just E grades! Sport climbs and boulders aren’t immune to downgrades/upgrades and people certainly don’t agree on them all. E grades give lots of info…. Sometimes I agree sometimes I don’t! Sport grades give less info… sometimes I agree sometimes I don’t. It’s all the same whatever the system.

20

chuffing / Re: Does E4 for WSS make sense?

« Last post by Will Hunt on Today at 02:49:41 pm »

This discussion belong on UKC.

LOCK N' LOG. And let us never speak of this again.