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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: webbo on May 21, 2021, 12:31:06 pm

Title: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: webbo on May 21, 2021, 12:31:06 pm
Jorg Verhoeven has soloed Total Brutal 8b+

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPGmTwDh3B8/?utm_medium=copy_link

He might say highball in that post, but it just isn't. It's a solo, and a pretty mind-boggling one given the traffic running underneath from about half height.

The comment by his father puts a somewhat disturbing slant on it.
Title: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: RobK on May 21, 2021, 12:45:21 pm
I must say, this doesn't really sit right with me. When you solo/highball you take on the risk to yourself, fair enough. But if he'd dropped that with oncoming traffic he immediately puts others at risk. Hope he's alright given the nature of the caption.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: T_B on May 21, 2021, 12:58:10 pm
The thing is he’s not going to fall off, so the cars are irrelevant. Or at least that’s what’s likely in his mind to solo it in the first place.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: andy popp on May 21, 2021, 01:06:43 pm
The thing is he’s not going to fall off, so the cars are irrelevant. Or at least that’s what’s likely in his mind to solo it in the first place.

You would very much hope that was in his mind, as it should be in the mind of anyone else starting a solo. Judging from his comment, however, you have to wonder on this occasion.

It does make me uncomfortable too, but I wonder how different it is from soloing at a busy crag where a fall has the potential to traumatise - and injure - others?
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: teestub on May 21, 2021, 01:12:41 pm
The comment by his father puts a somewhat disturbing slant on it.

This totally, it’s amazing how many people are just commenting ‘sick send bro’ or whatever, when this looks very much like a public cry for help.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: webbo on May 21, 2021, 01:13:51 pm
The comment from his father which now seems to have been removed  talked of the ascent being a  controlled suicide attempt.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: jwi on May 21, 2021, 01:19:26 pm
That was very disturbing. As I understand the crag is banned for safety issues? At least on a crag, any normal climber pay some form of attention on what is happening above, on the road no driver can be expected to be prepared for large mammals falling down on the windshield.

I will for now assume that all the encouraging messages on insta writing how awesome the ascent was were posted by bots.

Quote from: ramonverhoevensnl.lv
As Jorgs father I say to all 'friends' who express admiration in any way, please realize this looks to me more to a controlled suicide attempt. This is not the way sports climbing should be. I hope everybody realizes, Jorg needs support and listening ears, not admiration.This kinds of escapades is NOT a solution to the problems he is having right now. Please be there in real time for him. Sadly as a parent I am to far away and have no ways to be there to support him.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: T_B on May 21, 2021, 01:22:16 pm
Is his Dad a climber?

I suppose if you did fall on a car there’s a good chance they’re going to crash and be seriously hurt/killed.

Anyway I hope this very public cry for help gets him the support he needs.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Bradders on May 21, 2021, 01:40:20 pm
The thing is he’s not going to fall off, so the cars are irrelevant. Or at least that’s what’s likely in his mind to solo it in the first place.

That maybe what was going through his mind, but there's a big difference between thinking you're not going to fall and what might actually happen in practice, especially on such difficult climbing.

I thought it especially bizarre that he must have had someone else there filming it, based on the camera movement? In which case there was someone there helping / enabling it, which is particularly irresponsible if so.

Anyway, very glad he didn't fall off. Here's hoping he gets some help before he does something rash again.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: jwi on May 21, 2021, 01:56:28 pm

I thought it especially bizarre that he must have had someone else there filming it, based on the camera movement? In which case there was someone there helping / enabling it, which is particularly irresponsible if so.


I don't think so, it is easy to film in high resolution and then pan in post.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Kingy on May 21, 2021, 01:59:13 pm
I hope Jorg is OK. Looks like he is on his own to me and panned the tripod footage on a package after the event.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Bradders on May 21, 2021, 02:17:36 pm

I thought it especially bizarre that he must have had someone else there filming it, based on the camera movement? In which case there was someone there helping / enabling it, which is particularly irresponsible if so.


I don't think so, it is easy to film in high resolution and then pan in post.

Ah yes I think you're right, for some reason it didn't look like a post added panning shot on first viewing.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: cheque on May 21, 2021, 02:30:18 pm
It is shot from two angles though but they could both be set up on tripods of course. The pans are definitely a cropped section being moved within a bigger static frame.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: andy popp on May 21, 2021, 03:34:17 pm
I suppose if you did fall on a car there’s a good chance they’re going to crash and be seriously hurt/killed.

Yes. I know someone widowed when their spouse hit a deer that then came through the windscreen.

For me, soloing was always a total joyful thing, but for others it does seem to be driven by demons. It's very unsettling and disturbing to see this played out so publicly.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: remus on May 21, 2021, 04:03:25 pm
I agree it's somewhat unsettling to see it playing it out a public setting, but then Im not sure that's strictly worse than keeping it bottled up (being coy with friends and family about what you're doing etc.)

On the solo itself, It didn't look excessively risky to me. The rock looked good, he had it pretty dialed and it's well within his ability. It looks like a pretty amazing line, and very committing to boot. I can understand why soloing something like that would appeal.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Will Hunt on May 21, 2021, 08:36:22 pm
The comment by his father puts a somewhat disturbing slant on it.

This totally, it’s amazing how many people are just commenting ‘sick send bro’ or whatever, when this looks very much like a public cry for help.

Exactly this. What an absolute fucking hole Instagram is. Were people and climbers always this vapid?
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: dunnyg on May 21, 2021, 08:44:37 pm
yes
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Teaboy on May 21, 2021, 08:49:16 pm
I was
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: HaeMeS on May 21, 2021, 11:09:14 pm
Don’t know the details but apparently he's in good hands now.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: ducko on May 22, 2021, 12:07:38 am
Jorg Verhoeven has soloed Total Brutal 8b+

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPGmTwDh3B8/?utm_medium=copy_link

He might say highball in that post, but it just isn't. It's a solo, and a pretty mind-boggling one given the traffic running underneath from about half height.

Selfish, irresponsible helmet.
Hope the dude gets helps but putting others in potential risk isn’t on.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Bradders on May 22, 2021, 04:15:49 pm
Further developments with Jorg Verhoeven:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPLWNKCh1SL/?utm_medium=copy_link
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Wellsy on May 22, 2021, 05:52:55 pm
Seems clear that he's mentally in a bad place and needs support

I think everyone can agree that his solo was very irresponsible and that a lot of people on Instagram that post on climbing vids did not really think about that or are bots.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Fiend on May 22, 2021, 07:01:47 pm
Awww you didn't use my suggested title....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWoDVtAfXf8

I think the general topic could be a very interesting one. I'm sure there are quite a few people who have engaged in risky / challenging / obsessive climbing for unhealthy and possibly self-destructive reasons. I know I did in my youth, not very seriously nor dangerously but definitely pushing myself out of desperation and being guided by the stick not the carrot....
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: webbo on May 22, 2021, 08:07:33 pm
Didn’t the guy who did the first free ascent of Genesis in Elderado canyon write an article about a solo ascent of the Naked Edge after he split with his girlfriend and he’s ambivalent about the consequences.
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: Bradders on May 22, 2021, 09:22:05 pm
Pretty sure Honnold said similar in his autobiography, along the lines of there were a few times where he did it because he simply didn't care what happened either way.

Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: teestub on May 22, 2021, 10:39:59 pm
Caldwell’s too I think, think it was a solo of the Rostrum when he wasn’t in a great place
Title: Re: Topic split: Issues re Jorg Verhoeven solo of Total Brutal
Post by: andy popp on May 23, 2021, 04:29:37 am
Didn’t the guy who did the first free ascent of Genesis in Elderado canyon

Jim Collins - yes, I remember that, though I don't think there was a whole article. Collins went on to become the author of books such as Built to Last and From Good to Great, some of the most successful business advice/strategy books of all time; the latter has sold 2.5 millions copies accordng to Wiki. I wonder how his emphasis on profitability, growth, and longevity are viewed today, now that many young entrepreneurs are taught to have an exit plan in place before the company is even founded. Still climbs, I believe.
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