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the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Nibile on March 02, 2012, 09:10:44 am

Title: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 02, 2012, 09:10:44 am
Ok, as you may have read I got really psyched for deadlifting as of late, especially to fight boredom, summer temps and the likes.
It's considered the most complete exercise and also the one that induces the highest production of testosterone: all the power oriented exercises like one armers could have a positive spin off with higher levels of testosterone, no?
Moreover, Big Malc used to do it.
So, as a complete novice, I googled a bit and found this website
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-deadlift-with-proper-technique/ (http://stronglifts.com/how-to-deadlift-with-proper-technique/)
I really want to make sure I lift correctly, so is the lifting technique described there right?
And also, could it be beneficial for bouldering?
I know FD lifts, who else? Paul B has in the past. Opinions? Lower back problems or issues? Is it easy to bulk up and gain muscle and weight?
My idea is doing two gym sessions a week: a normal weights session, and a short, intense lifting session.
What do you think?
Is there some Science?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 02, 2012, 11:09:28 am
This is the vid I use to drill in the proper technique which I followed carefully due to back problems and had no problems

Mark Rippetoe: Deadlift Set-Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA#)

When I was doing deadlifts and clean and jerk I gained muscle around my abdomenal area but also lost subcutaneous fat . My back got stronger and I can use my feet much better on overhanging rock. It also helps standing up when using undercuts. I didnt do it that much for that long and got close to 2x bodyweight and felt that the crossover from further gains would be minimal. Job done.   
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 02, 2012, 11:15:01 am
yes, 2xbodyweight is my goal, with the idea of staying constant on that level without more stressing.
the idea of a 130 kg in front of my feet...
is it right to start driving the weight pushing from the heels?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 02, 2012, 11:22:02 am
yes, 2xbodyweight is my goal, with the idea of staying constant on that level without more stressing.
the idea of a 130 kg in front of my feet...
is it right to start driving the weight pushing from the heels?

In the vid Rippetoe is keen to get the feet properly centralised under the bar so I'm guessing he thinks equal weight distribution is important - I never felt I was pushing from the heels. Best to do it in bare feet or socks but you probably know that. It feels great to do it. I can see how it would get addictive.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 02, 2012, 01:05:01 pm
My tuppenceworth

I like to do it with the weight slightly forwards towards the ball of the foot, since it loads the calf that way for maximum benefit. Pretty easy to keep the heels off the ground when using reasonably heavy weights.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on March 02, 2012, 03:09:15 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels.  Learning a good squat and wall squat technique will help
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on March 02, 2012, 03:31:11 pm
The stronglifts site has some good info (and not just on deadlifts)

Drive through the heels definitely, not on the balls of your feet. You need to keep the bar close to you all the way up, not let it drift forward, practically drag it up the shins. When locked out don't hyperextend (lean back) like I see so many doing wrong in the gym. Other main advice is make sure the back doesn't round when lifting, keep head up and back flat.

2x bodyweight is a good target for starters. Take it easy get form correct, gradually increase weight each week. I tend to keep reps low after a decent warm up, when going heavy just do single reps. Not sure what grip you plan to use but most find a staggered grip easier than both hands over the bar. I do this myself and switch which hand is over and under so not causing any imbalance.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Yossarian on March 02, 2012, 03:41:57 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels.  Learning a good squat and wall squat technique will help

Ben - did you have decent technique before your Gym Jones thing?

I really want to start beasting the squats and deadlifts like Mr Nib, but every time I give them another go I end up wondering what the fuck is wrong with my body, because I am entirely incapable.  I vaguely remember a gym assessment ages ago during which the bloke said my hips were far too inflexible.

I might have to bite the bullet and go and see a trainer. 

Argh, much prefer my Molester Burnham garage weights setup to any gym...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 02, 2012, 04:02:16 pm
Gonna stop off at the gym after hitting the crag for an hour after work today and have a bash at some deadlifts.  :weakbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 02, 2012, 04:05:14 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels

What is the reason for this?

Genuine question, not trolling. Being as i have always just kinda experimented, am always open to changing how i train.

I gave up on "good" technique for deadlifts and clean & Jerk etc after my crap experience on the team and went back to doing the exercises with "bad" technique. I can't lift as much using my preferred methods, but I feel the benefits far more.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on March 02, 2012, 04:34:01 pm
I'd like to give deadlifting a go too, some time when I sort out access to (= decide I'm willing to pay for) a gym with decent free weights. My office gym only has machines and a few dbs.

Here's kettlebell guru Pavel Tsatsouline's description (http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2011/03/17/pavel-deadlift-program/) of his dad's programme for lifting 2x bodyweight at age 74.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on March 02, 2012, 04:54:28 pm
I really want to start beasting the squats and deadlifts like Mr Nib, but every time I give them another go I end up wondering what the fuck is wrong with my body, because I am entirely incapable.  I vaguely remember a gym assessment ages ago during which the bloke said my hips were far too inflexible.

I might have to bite the bullet and go and see a trainer. 

Problem is sometimes trainers offer poor advice.

You can work on you hip flexability. Cossack squats and Goblet squats should help, great moves as warm ups and mobility for deadlifts and squats.



 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on March 02, 2012, 05:00:33 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels

What is the reason for this?

Genuine question, not trolling. Being as i have always just kinda experimented, am always open to changing how i train.

You are levering the bar off the floor using the hips, so pushing down on the heels at the same time. You'd be off balance if weight forward and probably not doing your knees any favours either.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Yossarian on March 02, 2012, 05:04:42 pm

You can work on you hip flexability. Cossack squats and Goblet squats should help, great moves as warm ups and mobility for deadlifts and squats.

DeFrancosGym.com - Cossack Squats with 80lbs. of chain! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuB056L2Fas#ws)

Great advice, ta!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 02, 2012, 05:27:49 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels

What is the reason for this?

Genuine question, not trolling. Being as i have always just kinda experimented, am always open to changing how i train.

You are levering the bar off the floor using the hips, so pushing down on the heels at the same time. You'd be off balance if weight forward and probably not doing your knees any favours either.

Weirdly, I like the feeling of teetering around whilst lifting, sometimes i even try to stand up on tippytoes at the end of each lift 

Okay, i fully understand why weight on the heels know, but i still wont do it that way.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 03, 2012, 08:25:39 pm
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on March 03, 2012, 08:53:26 pm
Gremlin - try a under/over grip. One hand facing out t'other facing in and also clamp you thumb over your pointing and index finger to form a solid lock around the fingers.

Rodma - Just curious, but what weight are you lifting when you're going off your toes or balls of feet for DL compared to your Bodyweight?.  When I'm close to my Max effort, the weight dictates the posture of the skeleton rather than anything I choose to do.  The Oly lifts especially are totally unforgiving of anything but pure posture and technique which is what makes them so addictive, particularly to climber/gymnasts who get a buzz from technique more than power.  Its hard to describe the thrill of knowing you've executed a really great Snatch or C&J at your Max effort, but it's very close to pulling off a perfect boulder problem.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Serpico on March 03, 2012, 11:09:53 pm
Just my personal view, but if you're lifting to supplement your climbing stick with an overhand grip - once you get into mixed grip you can lift heavier, but you start building asymmetry.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 04, 2012, 09:35:02 am
Rodma - Just curious, but what weight are you lifting when you're going off your toes or balls of feet for DL compared to your Bodyweight?.  When I'm close to my Max effort, the weight dictates the posture of the skeleton rather than anything I choose to do.  The Oly lifts especially are totally unforgiving of anything but pure posture and technique which is what makes them so addictive, particularly to climber/gymnasts who get a buzz from technique more than power.  Its hard to describe the thrill of knowing you've executed a really great Snatch or C&J at your Max effort, but it's very close to pulling off a perfect boulder problem.

Off the balls of my feet only about 1.5 times bodyweight but for 8-10 reps.

flat feet had built up to 2.5 bodyweight for 3 shaky reps, but as i have mentioned before, this did not benefit my climbing as much as the lighter weight with "bad" form.

I also used to do snatch and C&J properly and similarly to above have reverted to my own technique. I don't like the combo of pull hard, let your legs collapse under you and then stand back up again. I prefer pull hard the whole way, more like as if i was bouldering hard. There is a big difference in height of lift (in the clean for example) when getting the bar to your chest (easily half a metre), if you execute perfect technique, rather than what I do. When bouldering i certainly don't pull exceptionally hard to half way through a move, let my legs drop out from under me, stamp my feet and stand back up again to reach the next hold.

I'm not saying that doing what you are doing will not be beneficial for you and others, it is just not beneficial for me.  :weakbench: I am really short, so really extending during the exercises makes a big diference, I need to be strong at full extension, not bunched up, or scissor kicked out.

I can  understand why you would get a buzz out of perfect execution near your limit 8) it is a rare sensation.

Just my personal view, but if you're lifting to supplement your climbing stick with an overhand grip - once you get into mixed grip you can lift heavier, but you start building asymmetry.

 :agree:

I have always stuck with overhand grip too.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 04, 2012, 09:44:31 am
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!

If this is a limiting factor (and if I carried on in would have been for me) you can build up grip strength doing heavy finger curls with a heavyish barbell or dumbell.

Doing this may also be a useful supplement to more orthodox isometric finger training  :worms:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 04, 2012, 11:28:39 am
Finger curls?  :shrug:

Just Googled this and got a lot of hairdresser type shit!  :wank:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 04, 2012, 01:45:53 pm
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!

If this is a limiting factor (and if I carried on in would have been for me) you can build up grip strength doing heavy finger curls with a heavyish barbell or dumbell.

Doing this may also be a useful supplement to more orthodox isometric finger training  :worms:

wrist straps are only a few quid.
im a fan of the mixed grip as im not doing deadlifts for grip.not going too heavy is better as i can imagine its an easy excersise to do some big damage.
being tall i find deadlifts a bit awkward,but they are getting a car lift style machine at the gym.ive managed 180kg but i felt like my arms stretched as im not used to them.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 04, 2012, 01:57:47 pm
Finger curls?  :shrug:

Just Googled this and got a lot of hairdresser type shit!  :wank:

try harder
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 05, 2012, 07:21:37 pm
did a bit of deadlifting tonight,did 180 for a few reps and the lad who i was doing them with upped the weight to 220.i couldnt even get it off the ground  :weakbench: felt good doing them,you can just get the feeling they are doing you real good.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 05, 2012, 07:56:43 pm
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!
it seems a lot for a beginner. how tall are you and how much do you weigh?
if you don't mind answering, obviously.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 05, 2012, 08:22:57 pm
Finger curls?  :shrug:

Just Googled this and got a lot of hairdresser type shit!  :wank:

try harder

How's this:

(http://www.cyberpump.com/albums/album53/aab.jpg)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 05, 2012, 08:29:13 pm
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!
it seems a lot for a beginner. how tall are you and how much do you weigh?
if you don't mind answering, obviously.

I'm about 79kg and 5' 10" but to be honest I have to admit to a mis-spent youth as a body builder so I know my way around a gym (Was 20 years ago tho  :whistle:).
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Dr T on March 05, 2012, 10:53:32 pm
This tread has got me interested - seems to be working for my dodgy back (had a L5-S1 discectomy a few years back)
Trouble is I'm straight up to just under body weight and run out of weight - I've done some searching but wondered if anyone here has a lead on some cheap plate weights.....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 05, 2012, 11:16:36 pm

I've done some searching but wondered if anyone here has a lead on some cheap plate weights.....

Unless you get lucky on ebay Decathlon is as cheap as anywhere
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Dr T on March 06, 2012, 07:43:00 am
Hadn't thought of them - always forget they exist in the uk.....
cheers
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 06, 2012, 08:51:46 am
We got luck at the community recycling centre (the dump) and pulled some 10kg discs out of the metal recycling skip which was a pretty big yyfy, maybe worth checking out (thought about checking the local scrappy). Car boot sales are an almost dead cert for cheap secondhand iron discs  :smart:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: erm, sam on March 06, 2012, 10:00:33 pm
Inspired by this thread and having a bar but no weights I constructed the below contraption. I only put 15kg of rocks in each tub but it appeared to work, just about. I am Mr Weakback so I think it'll be a good starting point.

My main concern was to get in done before my wife noticed what I was doing and said something disparaging..

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/6960016009_ee6d140efc.jpg)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: JamesR on March 06, 2012, 10:37:04 pm
Here is a good guide on dead lifting, with video and all that....

http://www.dieselcrew.com/how-to-deadlift-deadlifting-techniques (http://www.dieselcrew.com/how-to-deadlift-deadlifting-techniques)

My tip would be start really light and build good technique before going heavy, play the long game.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 07, 2012, 10:42:04 am
Inspired by this thread and having a bar but no weights I constructed the below contraption. I only put 15kg of rocks in each tub but it appeared to work, just about. I am Mr Weakback so I think it'll be a good starting point.

My main concern was to get in done before my wife noticed what I was doing and said something disparaging..

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/6960016009_ee6d140efc.jpg)

Effort. But looks unstable and unbalanced. I am also Mr ex-Weakbeak. Probably better to do bodyweight exercises. Pistols and dishes (lying down and holding legs out straight just above the floor) are my favourites for legs and core and you can do them pretty much anywhere anytime. Won't work you in quite the same way as deadlifting does. 

Pistol squat - bodyweight leg exercise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLBAbqEZIeU#)

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: erm, sam on March 07, 2012, 04:08:13 pm
Yes definatly a tad unstable. with a little more rope work I think it would be doable for lower weights though. I shall hopefully be borrowing some weights from the same person I borrowed the bar from, so it is only a temporary measure. And to my suprise my back feels fine today!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: robertostallioni on March 07, 2012, 04:15:50 pm
just borrow more rocks and buckets from the person you borrowed the string from.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 07, 2012, 04:50:39 pm
it seems that I started the thread, yet I'm only one who hasn't started deadlifing...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 07, 2012, 05:39:07 pm
it seems that I started the thread, yet I'm only one who hasn't started deadlifing...

If it makes you feel anybetter, I've only tried it once so far!  :)

Gonna' have another go on Friday after work. Will stay at 120kg max though. No point in pushing too hard and buggering myself up. Plan to take Serpico's advice and stick with the over-hand grip to try to increase climbing grip strength tho'.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Stubbs on March 09, 2012, 08:46:18 am
After always thinking that I had a bit of a weak lower back, I had a crack at some of this picking stuff up after a bouldering session last night.  I started with just the bar and worked up to 5 reps @ 1.5 BW.

I guess my question is am I likely to see any climbing benefits doing a period of deadlifting?  This little test run would seem to show that my lower back isn't a weak point, and my time could be better spent elsewhere?

It's definitely a lot of fun though - I can see why people get really into it!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 09, 2012, 09:11:06 am
I guess my question is am I likely to see any climbing benefits doing a period of deadlifting?  This little test run would seem to show that my lower back isn't a weak point, and my time could be better spent elsewhere?

This really is the big prob with any sort of training. What addresses one persons weaknesses is unlikely to work for everyone else.

The good thing with weights however, is even if you find it quite easy, is that it is a simple way to do a lot of work in a short period of time. Even when I have done exercises that did not address any specific physical weakness, it did improve my ability to perform several hard moves in a row (enough for a boulder problem anyway)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: saltbeef on March 09, 2012, 09:20:30 am
After always thinking that I had a bit of a weak lower back, I had a crack at some of this picking stuff up after a bouldering session last night.  I started with just the bar and worked up to 5 reps @ 1.5 BW.

I guess my question is am I likely to see any climbing benefits doing a period of deadlifting?  This little test run would seem to show that my lower back isn't a weak point, and my time could be better spent elsewhere?

It's definitely a lot of fun though - I can see why people get really into it!

i did exactly the same thing on sunday, but was too lazy to post it!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Stubbs on March 09, 2012, 09:23:03 am
Deadlifting: it's the new weightvest!

Cheers Rodma, no there's a gym at the wall there's no excuse not to do a session once a week or so and see what the results are like.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on March 09, 2012, 11:49:41 am
Rather than establish any specific link with climbing improvement (although Serps and Shark will both attest to improved undercutting and body tension) these things are more about work capacity, strength, overall physical preparedness and injury proofing. 

The 10 or 12 tonne challenge is good. (10 x 10 x (100kg or 120kg)) with perfect form done for time with no short strokes.  Prepare for Buttock DOMS though :-)

I've not put any weight on since lifting so I wouldn't worry about that.  When I was doing a session or two week my fat% shot down dramatically.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 09, 2012, 12:37:14 pm
I'm quite sure that body tension and ability to bear high training volumes and intensity will benefit. It's a bit like training to be more prepared to train. And moreover, if a problem spits you off, you can rip the plywood from the wall or tilt the boulder upside down.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on March 09, 2012, 01:00:59 pm
The other advantage/ theory is that training major muscle groups gives a hormonal training effect that potentially transfers to other muscle groups that are under training stimuli (upper arms, forearms, tendons etc, all good for climbing!)

The only deadlifting I've ever done was a month or so ago, after which I went straight to the works for a session on the motherboard, expecting to feel really tired.

In fact it was the opposite, my core felt fully engaged and I probably had one of the best sessions on there ever due to my feet staying put on the small footholds. Basically climbing feels easy compared to power lifting and makes me think non of us are trying hard enough when climbing!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 09, 2012, 01:05:00 pm
The other advantage/ theory is that training major muscle groups gives a hormonal training effect that potentially transfers to other muscle groups that are under training stimuli (upper arms, forearms, tendons etc, all good for climbing!)

The only deadlifting I've ever done was a month or so ago, after which I went straight to the works for a session on the motherboard, expecting to feel really tired.

In fact it was the opposite, my core felt fully engaged and I probably had one of the best sessions on there ever due to my feet staying put on the small footholds. Basically climbing feels easy compared to power lifting and makes me think non of us are trying hard enough when climbing!!!
Yes, many studies demonstrate this. I especially read one about two groups, one just doing bicep curls and one doing bicep curls AND squat. Guess in which one each athlete had had bigger bicep gains?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: jwi on March 09, 2012, 01:38:26 pm
Guess in which one each athlete had had bigger bicep gains?
Those who ate more food?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: slackline on March 09, 2012, 02:01:51 pm
 :lol:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 09, 2012, 02:02:27 pm
In fact it was the opposite, my core felt fully engaged and I probably had one of the best sessions on there ever due to my feet staying put on the small footholds. Basically climbing feels easy compared to power lifting and makes me think non of us are trying hard enough when climbing!!!

I felt really strong (as good as I've ever felt) last night at the wall after doing dead lifts on Wed night (3 x 50kg as a warm up and to "lock in" good technique/posture and then 3 x 130kg).

Didn't last very long tho'.  :-\
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 09, 2012, 02:04:25 pm
Guess in which one each athlete had had bigger bicep gains?
Those who ate more food?
nope, those grew bigger bellies.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 09, 2012, 02:28:55 pm
Deadlifting: it's the new weightvest!

Cheers Rodma, no there's a gym at the wall there's no excuse not to do a session once a week or so and see what the results are like.

This has actually reminded me that my best comp result was after a prolonged period of lifting. I flashed problem one, failed outright on 2 and 3 and then manged problems 4, 5 and 6 on 3rd 4th and 4th attempts respectively. I finished one place above little dave who had manged 3 tops in 3 attempts and one place below Stew who had 4 tops in 5 attempts (IIRC). Funny how the brits tended to bunch together like that. Anyhoo the point I was trying to make was that my recovery was great due to the weights, since I did no such interval training at the wall ever and my route-reading crap.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 09, 2012, 02:39:48 pm
well, jwi's joke about the food made me think.
of course, with the same training volume and intensity, the group who eat more will grow more. even more so if the group which exercises more eats more.
but, could food make the difference in the opposite way?
i.e. the group which just does biceps eat more than the other group, and therefore grows more?
I think that with small muscles, like biceps, food can't make all that difference. but maybe if the group which also squats doesn't get enough food, surely will wear muscle tissue down due to a lack of nutrients.
I know this is a bit off topic, but what do you think?
more precisely, those who deadlift regularly or at cycles, have experienced a higher need of food? how many put up weight by just deadlifting?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 09, 2012, 07:31:32 pm
a warning to everyone,dont go getting too keen on lifting weights,its very addictive.as soon as you see results you will do more.thats what happened to me.
im alot stronger than ive ever been but also the heaviest.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on March 09, 2012, 07:46:42 pm
I lost weight... I think it depends on the lifts and rep/set structure.  Stuck to the full body Olympic lifts, Deadlifts and Squats.  Got stronger and dropped weight (but I am a bit of a fatty)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Paul B on March 09, 2012, 11:54:37 pm
as soon as you see results you will do more.

Thats the thing isn't it, after climbing for what seems like ages the gains you get in something new seem so rapid. Its more-ish. There's also something about Deadlifting that plays well to any ego lurking within; the lump of weight you're attempting to move is (for a change) sizeable.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mr__j5 on March 10, 2012, 10:25:19 am
I'm not quite sure of the exact sport science, but exercises such as deadlifting lead to an increase in metabolic rate that lasts for much longer than the exercise itself.

Therefore, if you can avoid eating extra, lifting weights should help burn the fat. However, it might just cause you to feel more hungry and as a result stuff more food into your face than necessary and thus gain weight.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 10, 2012, 10:37:49 am
I'm not quite sure of the exact sport science, but exercises such as deadlifting lead to an increase in metabolic rate that lasts for much longer than the exercise itself.

Therefore, if you can avoid eating extra, lifting weights should help burn the fat. However, it might just cause you to feel more hungry and as a result stuff more food into your face than necessary and thus gain weight.

You also tend to lose weight in the area you are exercising so when doing this work I lost the most sub-cutaneous fat in the abdomenal area. You would think that it was because that it is to do with proximity of the energy source but apparently the effect has something to do with the heat generated in the exercised area stimulating the breakdown of the fat. I was told there are studies being conducted into breaking down fat by direct appliaction of heat. All second hand stuff from John's Mum.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Paul B on March 10, 2012, 11:43:28 am
Localised fat loss is a myth (http://www.personaltrainertoday.com/localized-fat-loss-the-myth-that-sells) (or I believe it to be, can you show otherwise?).

You'll be losing fat all over the place (not necessarily in the order you store it either). You're also likely to gain muscle in the area you're targetting i.e. you're now bulging stomach muscles will be pushing through the chub giving the extra appearance of fat loss in this area.

BTW Shark, there are machines at the gym that shake and they'll make whatever you do on them better. fact.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 10, 2012, 12:30:04 pm
I lost weight... I think it depends on the lifts and rep/set structure.  Stuck to the full body Olympic lifts, Deadlifts and Squats.  Got stronger and dropped weight (but I am a bit of a fatty)

yeah ben,i always try do between 8 - 12 reps.which isnt best for pure strength. i do 1 - 3's also.good to mix it up a bit now and then.deadlifts on monday again :2thumbsup:

paul,i know what you mean.it always seem even more when you convert in from kgs into lbs for extra ego boost or workout how much you lifted during whole workout
i am on a site where you enter you whole workout and it tells you p.b's and how much you lifted.it got a bit of a pain filling it in every day though
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 10, 2012, 02:23:08 pm
it seems to me that there are several factors all going in the same direction: bigger testosterone production, better muscular quality, heat produced locally, etc.
I think that all these may contribute to fat loss. there is also something I read about the amount of calories consumed by the body AFTER the workout.
IIRC, high intensity-short duration sports were the ones with the highest post activity calory consumption.

anyway, the fact is this: I am getting more and more psyched for deadlifting. I still haven't started, but I am really struggling in waiting. I want to wait because I know that now I can still climb on my board with satisfaction, or fingerboard, but when the really warm weather will come, I will really need a change, and then I'll hit the gym.
this is great.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 10, 2012, 02:45:05 pm
IIRC, high intensity-short duration sports were the ones with the highest post activity calory consumption.
high intensity intervals, to be precise. from 10 to 30 seconds, according to "Racing Weight", by Matt Fitzgerald.
anyway, my weight has been constant in the last years, and I have never ever paid too much attention to my diet, neither I changed it in order to lose fat; given this, I have noticed sensible fat loss, in the last years, only in two cases: after coming back of 10 days long surf trips, surfing 5-6 hours everyday; and after going to the gym to do weights.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Dr T on March 13, 2012, 06:29:27 pm
wandered into the middle of a rugby boy's weights session today looking for extra weight

warmed up on 60kg
then 100kg
then thought "sod it" and went up to 130kg then did 3 reps at 140kg before finishing off with a few more at 130kg

was fun and pretty pleasing for a first proper go
(btw I weigh 80kg so it's not quite 2xBW yet - but that's something for the future)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 13, 2012, 08:14:43 pm
i didnt bother doing any yesterday as the big 2 lads were doing 300kg deadlifts.i just did extra t bar rows which are just as good.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on March 14, 2012, 08:33:18 am
What is a rep of a deadlift? Do you let the bar touch the floor? Do you let go between reps?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 14, 2012, 10:01:19 am
Has anyone got any definitive proof that deadlifting actually helps their climbing and if so what type of climbing does it help?
Bouldering, Sport/trad, or both?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Serpico on March 14, 2012, 10:19:57 am
I was talking to Big Sam about deadlifting and he raised a point I hadn't considered; the (physical) size of the plates I was using. Lifting at home with Decathlon plates I was starting with the bar much nearer the ground than I would be using the same weight with Olympic plates.
Linky (http://www.gustrength.com/eric-troy:how-to-deadlift-with-standard-plates)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on March 14, 2012, 04:17:00 pm
wandered into the middle of a rugby boy's weights session today looking for extra weight

warmed up on 60kg
then 100kg
then thought "sod it" and went up to 130kg then did 3 reps at 140kg before finishing off with a few more at 130kg

was fun and pretty pleasing for a first proper go
(btw I weigh 80kg so it's not quite 2xBW yet - but that's something for the future)

You'll piss it - no probs if you're doing three reps at 140.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Dr T on March 14, 2012, 08:59:48 pm
Has anyone got any definitive proof that deadlifting actually helps their climbing and if so what type of climbing does it help?
Bouldering, Sport/trad, or both?

after my lifting session a couple of days ago I went down the wall

kept my feet on for what had always been a pop move before (boulder problem)

sample size of 1 but 100% correlation :-)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on March 14, 2012, 09:55:04 pm
Has anyone got any definitive proof that deadlifting actually helps their climbing and if so what type of climbing does it help?
Bouldering, Sport/trad, or both?

after my lifting session a couple of days ago I went down the wall

kept my feet on for what had always been a pop move before (boulder problem)

sample size of 1 but 100% correlation :-)
:agree:
Worked for me
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 15, 2012, 04:50:30 pm
first of all: I'm really impressed by the lifters here!!! strong bunch, I have to work hard if I want to catch up!!!
anyway, sooner or later I'll start deadlifting as well. as said, my idea is to go to the gym twice per week. one session doing weights, one session lifting.
the weights session would be the usual, climbing oriented, with focus on power, big weights and low reps.
that is:
- lat machine, wide grip
- lat machine, one armed
- pull up bar, one armers
- pulley
- shoulder raises
- tricep extension (cables)
- bicep curl

what about the deadlifting session?
I was thinking about a genereal warm up, then some easy squat and then a specific warm up lifting from bodyweight and checking form.
5 reps sets?
10 kg increases?
then moving down to 3 reps with higher loads?

opinions and suggestions?
thanks.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Pebblespanker on March 15, 2012, 05:10:19 pm
Nibs from my very rusty memory of my youth it sounds good to me. I used to be well into my lifting when aged 14-20, and I always used to warm up in a similar fashion start light say 60kg, for 10 reps and concentrate on form and technique, then did a pyramid heading towards my 1RM. Other climbing beneficial lifting related one you might want to try is a calf raise which is excellent for one leg push up type moves, does tend to build big calves unless careful - I still have vestiges of mine lol. No idea if what I could do was good or not but visiting a body builders gm always tended to leave me feeling like a punter compared to those beasts lol  :-[

180kg calf raises, 300+kg leg press, and dead lift around 150kg with a body weight of 65-70kg - dead lift always suffered as holding the bar was problematic due to weak grip! Not something that will be a problem for you!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 15, 2012, 08:04:17 pm
nibs if you are going for power,dont fuck around with isolation excersises.
overhead presses
squats
deadlifts
t bar rows
bench presses
maybe a few wide grip lat pull downs,
they are all you will need.you'll soon get strong :strongbench: :strongbench: :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 16, 2012, 06:20:55 am
Thanks guys!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 17, 2012, 06:36:20 pm
Has anyone got any definitive proof that deadlifting actually helps their climbing and if so what type of climbing does it help?
Bouldering, Sport/trad, or both?

after my lifting session a couple of days ago I went down the wall

kept my feet on for what had always been a pop move before (boulder problem)

sample size of 1 but 100% correlation :-)

Ok, so what do we reccon'; low weight high reps or high reps low weight or a combination there-of?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Seb on March 17, 2012, 09:38:25 pm
What is a rep of a deadlift? Do you let the bar touch the floor? Do you let go between reps?

Its got to be totally resting on the ground between reps. It should basically be the same as the first rep every time.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 18, 2012, 08:40:54 am
Gremlin, I will go at 5 reps for the warm ups, then 3, then 1 when close to my max.
Ps. For having not started yet, I have a pretty good plan... :-[ talk is cheap indeed!  :guilty:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 19, 2012, 07:06:41 pm
i did some tonight,started at 60,100,140,180 then went for a 200.it didnt happen.felt like my stomach was going to burst as i couldnt be arsed to walk to other end of gym to get a belt.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gremlin on March 19, 2012, 08:03:39 pm
Imppresive! Be careful tho. When I was younger I gave myself an Hiatus Hernia doing too heavy a weight. This is where the stomach muscle splits and the intestines push up under the skin of the stomach!  :ohmy:
Title: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on March 29, 2012, 10:55:30 pm
Right never tried this before (never been into weights much).
Dug out my old weights from Ma and Pa's shed this eve (annoyingly all in Lbs).
Tried to deadlift my BW (77kg).
3sets of 10.
Was surprisingly easy.
I can't get much more on this bar (it's a set I used to use for shoulder press and curls, not power lifting).
Am I going to get much benefit from simply doing a few reps per week at this weight?
Considering, I can also clean and jerk it and manage 3x10 reps Mill press at the same weight?

Does feel good though, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on March 30, 2012, 12:01:55 am
Try 3 sets of 12 if you looking for body tension for routes(endurance). 

Another idea, probably a bad one, that I had was to try them one legged.  Alot of the strength is generated out of the hamstring, so using one leg would put all the focus on the one leg.  This also seemed to me to be more specific to climbing as generating body tension out of one leg is common. 

I'm confident the likelihood of injury increases by an order of magnitude though. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 30, 2012, 09:13:40 am
Try 3 sets of 12 if you looking for body tension for routes(endurance). 

Another idea, probably a bad one, that I had was to try them one legged.  Alot of the strength is generated out of the hamstring, so using one leg would put all the focus on the one leg.  This also seemed to me to be more specific to climbing as generating body tension out of one leg is common. 

I'm confident the likelihood of injury increases by an order of magnitude though.

I would be wary of doing deadlifts as an endurance exercise as form could be compromised leading to back injuries. Doing them one legged sounds interesting - like an advanced form of pistol squats.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 30, 2012, 11:51:59 am
Have done a bit of 1-legged, but had to use very light weight. It puts an impressive amount of load through the hamstring, even if you just "mime" the exercise with no weight.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on March 30, 2012, 03:47:21 pm
Have done a bit of 1-legged, but had to use very light weight. It puts an impressive amount of load through the hamstring, even if you just "mime" the exercise with no weight.

It makes alot of sense.  If you can to 1x bodyweight on two legs, then just body weight on one is the same effort. plus all the stabilazation effort.  Maybe I'll add this to my body weight only regime..... 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on March 30, 2012, 04:08:59 pm
Doing them 1 legged is a good move for hamstrings, as a romanian or stiff legged deadlift, using a dumbbell in each hand rather than a barbell would be easier, but you can't go that heavy this way, more of a higher rep exercise.
 
There is also an interesting move called a 'suitcase deadlift' which is basically a one arm deadlift picking up a dumbbell or barbell at your side, great for core and can go fairly heavy.

But neither of these are as good for pulling power and strength as a conventional floor deadlift, so I'd just stick with them IMO.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 30, 2012, 04:19:44 pm
If you can to 1x bodyweight on two legs, then just body weight on one is the same effort.
shouldn't it be 2xbodyweight on two legs = bodyweight on one?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on March 30, 2012, 04:28:00 pm
If you can to 1x bodyweight on two legs, then just body weight on one is the same effort.
shouldn't it be 2xbodyweight on two legs = bodyweight on one?
That was written poorly, and is confusing.

When I see 2x body weight I think of lifting a bar/weights that weighs 2x their body. 

For example, my deadlift max is about 355lbs (160kgish), and I weigh about 175-180lbs(80-82kgs).  So I can do 2x bodyweight.  The reason is that you're not actually lifting a large portion of your bodyweight.  Your legs are standing on the ground and not being moved during the lift.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Beegsyboy on April 01, 2012, 04:27:50 pm
Quick question: Whats the thinking on dropping/lowering? I can lower fine on my warm ups, keeping good form. But on my proper lifts have taken to dropping the bar as it feels tweaky trying to lower in control.
Sorry if this question is obvious??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on April 01, 2012, 05:20:01 pm
Quick question: Whats the thinking on dropping/lowering? I can lower fine on my warm ups, keeping good form. But on my proper lifts have taken to dropping the bar as it feels tweaky trying to lower in control.
Sorry if this question is obvious??

put less weight on
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on April 02, 2012, 12:25:36 pm
I lower the bar at the same tempo as lifting it, dropping the bar is only half a rep and would probably get me kicked out of the gym!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 02, 2012, 12:29:48 pm
From what I've read, one should reverse the same technique of the lift. Feels tricky though, especially to keep the back straight.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on April 02, 2012, 10:19:35 pm
If you are able to lower the bar you're miles off your 1RM.  Dropping is the only option when near your max lift.  Obviously this is difficult in gyms where it's frowned upon so doing 3-5 reps lowering the bar is a good alternative.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on April 02, 2012, 11:02:43 pm
If you are able to lower the bar you're miles off your 1RM.  Dropping is the only option when near your max lift. 

 :-\ I've never dropped it but I'm certain this hasn't held me back after all I would have to drop it if there was no alternative.

Generally the negative action is usually easier no ? The reverse part of a pull-up is easier which is why people can do harder (controlled) negatives ie with one arm.   
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on April 02, 2012, 11:09:45 pm
If you are able to lower the bar you're miles off your 1RM.  Dropping is the only option when near your max lift. 

 :-\ I've never dropped it but I'm certain this hasn't held me back after all I would have to drop it if there was no alternative. The negative action is usually easier no ? The reverse part of a pull-up is easier which is why people can do harder negatives ie with one arm.

Yes and no.  For power lifters maxing out their 1 round max, it's a fairly explosive lift off the ground using your legs.  It's much harder to use that leg power going down.

For most general blokes, I wouldn't recommend using that explosive leg power as it takes VERY good coordination/technique to not hurt yourself.  As such, most of us probably aren't really hitting our true 1RM. 

That said, if you're doing it for climbing training then control and doing the negatives is equally important, and in response to the original question.  Are you lifting to get lift heavier weights or to get better at climbing?  If the latter, then I'd say drop the weight and stay controlled through the whole motion.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Duma on April 02, 2012, 11:47:09 pm
If the latter, then I'd say drop the weight and stay controlled through the whole motion.
Assume that in this case, and for clarity given the rest of the discussion, drop=reduce?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: hamsforlegs on April 03, 2012, 12:10:09 am
You can't lower the bar after a true 1RM; that's why the negative is not required in powerlifting/strongman comps.

Imagine finding a tiny campus edge that you can only just manage to hang. After a few sessions of hanging it, you somehow manage to pull slowly up into a locked position. Abs are locked, you're staring at your fingers, shaking like a drunk on the pub steps at 9am, and hoping like hell that a tendon doesn't explode. At the top of the pull, you just know that if you try to reverse you'll be icing your pulleys for weeks.

The deadlift is similar. There is so much fine control required to avoid exploding/collapsing/herniating that a heavy lift is one way only. Once you get your system in 'balance' (you are probably saying 'uuunnnghhggaaahhhh!') at the top of the lift, there is no way you could break the position safely.

I think the ability to train max power with minimal reps could really handy for climbers, but learning to do it safely is probably too much of a distraction and a risk if you're training enough to climb hard. I'd agree with the points/concliusions above. Lower weights and the bar unless you know how and why you want to train heavier.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on April 03, 2012, 01:28:54 am
If the latter, then I'd say drop the weight and stay controlled through the whole motion.
Assume that in this case, and for clarity given the rest of the discussion, drop=reduce?

Correct. Sorry about the wording.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on April 03, 2012, 05:21:27 pm
If you are able to lower the bar you're miles off your 1RM.  Dropping is the only option when near your max lift.

Depends on the individual, I've always controlled the negative when doing them, so as my 1RM has increased then so has my ability to lower the same weight. It's my grip that's stopping me going heavier at the moment (as I don't use straps), failing lifting off the floor.





Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on April 03, 2012, 05:31:41 pm
that's why the negative is not required in powerlifting/strongman comps.

It is one of the rules in Powerlifting comps, bar must be lowered to the floor in control with both hands. Could be different in certain strongman events though.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: hamsforlegs on April 03, 2012, 05:37:57 pm
that's why the negative is not required in powerlifting/strongman comps.

It is one of the rules in Powerlifting comps, bar must be lowered to the floor in control with both hands. Could be different in certain strongman events though.

Apologies; slap duly self-administered for inaccuracy and poor fact-checking.

I would definitely struggle to lower my heaviest lifts (although I do lower the vast majority of my lifts when training), and have never hit the point where grip is the weak link. Guess I should try harder on both counts...


Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 12, 2012, 07:44:10 pm
so I finally did my first deadlifting session.
in the morning I had fingerboarded, and given that I have trained almost every day in the last weeks, today I fancied something different, so I went to the gym.
I had great fun but took it far too seriously as usual, and perhaps also a bit too far.
tried to adjust position in the first sets, but I think my hips were too low, and my legs were not  feeling good. I also have to say that the weights are not the official ones, and being only 10 kilos they are pretty small, so the bar was very close to the ground.
as soon as I switched to 20 kilos weights and I kept my hips higer, everything felt better.
I found that with higher hips I can have my back more straight, but of course I couldn't check in the mirror.
now I feel really worked, especially my lower back, so I was wondering if I did it properly.
anyway for sure it's a great workout. more to come for sure, but I can't see me doing more than one lifting session per week. probably for now one every two weeks is fine.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: lagerstarfish on April 12, 2012, 07:49:16 pm
I was wondering if I did it properly.

No

you have failed to post the maximum amount you lifted and say how that amount relates to your body weight

 :spank:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 12, 2012, 07:54:19 pm
 ;D fair enough.
I did one lift with 110 kg, weight 65. so it's 1,7 my bodyweight, I think.
deadlifting is a bit scary.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: lagerstarfish on April 12, 2012, 10:20:40 pm
you have done it properly now  :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 14, 2012, 09:26:45 am
I have watched a few vids, and I think that I could have done the lifts starting with my hips too high.
when I tried to start with lower hips, my belly seemed to explode and nothing seemed right in my legs and groin. with high hips, I did all the lifts first go and it seemed to me that my back was much straighter.
I found it much easier to drive the weight up by straightening my spine with some help from the legs.
I definitely would like to videotape me but I have had already my share of weird glances in the gym the other night, don't want to seem a moron.
maybe a demonstrative video at home.
any advice?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on April 16, 2012, 04:04:31 pm
There are two different deadlifts you can do: Straight leg deadlift(romanian), or bent leg deadlifts. 

Straight leg deadlifts are just like they sound.  You keep the legs straight, bend over and pick up the weight using almost all your lower back. 

Bent leg deadlifts start with the legs bent to almost a full squat and the back straight but leaned over to about a 45 degree angle.  You start the lift out of the legs and finish by extending the back to an upright position. 

They target different muscles, so which one you do is mostly personal preference.  Many people will say the romanian deadlifts are more likely to hurt your back.  I haven't found that to be the case.  I generally do a mix of the two over a training cycle.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Seb on April 16, 2012, 04:22:07 pm
Had my first deadlift sesson in years a few days ago. Crazy bum and lower back DOMS today. Managed 120Kg but thats only 1.6* body weight so not that great. Its hard to tell if mu lower back is set correctly, does any one have any tips on that?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: b3n99 on April 16, 2012, 04:29:09 pm
Following this thread it seems like deadlifting has been taken onto many peoples training plans (so there must be somethign right with it) but i can't help to think there must be much more directly related and more easily transferable training methods for climbing. Am i wrong or is deadlifting just for the challenge?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on April 16, 2012, 04:50:25 pm
Following this thread it seems like deadlifting has been taken onto many peoples training plans (so there must be somethign right with it) but i can't help to think there must be much more directly related and more easily transferable training methods for climbing. Am i wrong or is deadlifting just for the challenge?

The deadlift action is all about transmiting power through the core and legs and most transferable to climbing for moves where  you stand up with difficuly on a move especially if using an undercut and on overhanging rock. Most will have a weak link in this chain and deadlifting is a very efficient/aggressive way to shock/stimulate the system. So yes, the short answer is that it is just for the challenge   ;D
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on April 16, 2012, 04:52:10 pm
Its hard to tell if mu lower back is set correctly, does any one have any tips on that?

This is the video I refer to:

Mark Rippetoe: Deadlift Set-Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA#)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on April 16, 2012, 05:09:02 pm
Following this thread it seems like deadlifting has been taken onto many peoples training plans (so there must be somethign right with it) but i can't help to think there must be much more directly related and more easily transferable training methods for climbing. Am i wrong or is deadlifting just for the challenge?

By golly you're right, you ought to patent some form of say,.......board that you could hang off to target your grip; you'd probably want to hang off it with just your fingers. I doubt it will catch on though  :P
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 16, 2012, 05:45:17 pm
Following this thread it seems like deadlifting has been taken onto many peoples training plans (so there must be somethign right with it) but i can't help to think there must be much more directly related and more easily transferable training methods for climbing. Am i wrong or is deadlifting just for the challenge?
of course it's a challenge in itself, but like fingerboarding or one armers.
it's power.
I think (am sure) that all the climbers who lift also train more specifically on boards, walls, fingerboards and the like. deadlifting is a plus, works your core and whole body power, while also stimulating a lot testosterone secretion, so that all the other training can benefit from that.

edit: it's also very good to change the training and shock your body avoiding adaptation.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 16, 2012, 05:47:24 pm
regarding hips height, I also was wondering if I were doing romanian. my legs weren't straight though. I could have been somewhere in the middle.
will try an videotape me next time.
Shark, thanks for the video. I knew it already but it's always good to have a reminder.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: b3n99 on April 16, 2012, 05:55:52 pm
OK i see how that works, definitely interesting to attack a weakness in such a different way. Seems like a lot of training possibilities used up on a small area of weakness to me but this is probably as I have no experience of how gains can transfer. Interested to see how people find it through a phase of this.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on April 16, 2012, 06:25:14 pm
Seems like a lot of training possibilities used up on a small area of weakness to me but this is probably as I have no experience of how gains can transfer. Interested to see how people find it through a phase of this.

If it is a small area of weakness for you, then the rewards would be smaller for you. Deadlifting helped me a lot, but my lower back was a lot weaker than i thought. fingerboarding and campussing helped me a lot, but I couldn't one-arm a small edge.

Lots of climbers mistakingly think they have strong fingers and/or shoulders but cannot one-arm a small edge, yet their inability to do this doesn't get rid of their belief. For instance, I have almost always been able to do a front lever (well, for the last 15 years anyway), so therefore i must have a strong core. When the physio told me otherwise, I just laughed at them, they haven't seen me climb after all. My core is genuinely as weak as weak could be, but it took trying some simple pilates exercises (which overweight, out of shape women could do with relative ease compared to me) to make me realise the truth.

Deadlifting may not be for everyone and I'm not necessarily advocating its use in place of other training, or for everyone, but it can pay dividends.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Richie Crouch on April 16, 2012, 10:32:55 pm
Just noticed this thread having been the gym today and had my first attempts at deadlifting!

I have recently attempted two horizontal problems which require a lot of body tension, strong fingers and strong biceps and thought back to Shark talking about deadlifting a long time ago being good for body tension and pressing through your feet?

I'm going to give it a go a couple of times a week for a month and see if it helps with progress alongside some more climbing specific training at the wall on undercuts/crimps in a roof and getting spanned out on small footholds...etc

Wondering what the best routine/progression would be for a tall weakling.

Today's session was a bit of a mix with lots of benching/shoulder press and bicep curls to start with and then the deadlifting after. Should I keep them as seperate sessions or what?

I am 6ft 2 and 70kg wet through. Did sets of 5 reps on 60/80/100 ok but did notice I was very light headed on the 100kg reps and had to sit down after doing each set! Wondering if you can have the belt too tight so it acts like a corset or is this normal for someone with a long body and very weak legs. May have overdone the earlier exercises before beginning the deadlifting as the drop sets on the bicep curls killed!  :-\
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on April 17, 2012, 04:59:05 pm
@nibile - hips should stay higher than the knees, how much the knees bend is different for each individuals leg/arm length, just make sure you keep your head up and back flat.

These links may help if you're not sure which version your doing:

Regular deadlift:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html)

Romanian deadlift:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/RomanianDeadlift.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/RomanianDeadlift.html)

Stiff legged deadlift (similar to Romanian but legs stay straight):

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBStiffLegDeadlift.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBStiffLegDeadlift.html)

and one to try for those who have abnormally long legs and short arms, Sumo deadlift which has a wider stance and you pull the bar between the legs:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBSumoDeadlift.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBSumoDeadlift.html)







Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 17, 2012, 07:15:57 pm
Cheers Dave!!! For sure I was doing Romanian. I thought that Romanian was with straight legs.
I felt definitely better doing the Romanian than the normal, which seemed to put under too much effort my knees and groin, and cause a bigger abdominal pressure. Will try to perfect the technique next time instead of trying to add weight.
The problem in the only time I've done it, was that as I entered the gym I thought I have to lift at least 100. Then I wanted to get 130 but got scared. Didn't want to get injured. And still don't want to.
Many thanks.

Ps. Any opinion about normal lift vs Romanian?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: miso soup on April 17, 2012, 07:43:23 pm
I had no idea people did anything other than regular deadlifts.  The last two seem to be basically what it tells you never to do on all those health and safety manual handling posters.  Am I missing a subtle difference, or is the standard advice to not lift with your back just based on most people not having strong backs?  Do people who do both these methods use lower weights when doing Romanians?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 17, 2012, 07:46:34 pm
I think the main problem when lifting in normal life is that you often pick up things from the floor, so from much lower. And that one tends to bend the spine and look down, while the key for deadlifts is straight back and head up.
I think.
Title: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on April 17, 2012, 08:51:17 pm
I had no idea people did anything other than regular deadlifts.  The last two seem to be basically what it tells you never to do on all those health and safety manual handling posters.  Am I missing a subtle difference, or is the standard advice to not lift with your back just based on most people not having strong backs?  Do people who do both these methods use lower weights when doing Romanians?

Speaking as a back martyr...

Stick to the basic.

Until you are very confident in your back strength, at least.

Better doing dorsal raises (with weights, as you progress), to improve the lower back strength.

A herniated disc is for life, not just for Christmas...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on April 17, 2012, 10:59:44 pm
Speaking as a back martyr...

Stick to the basic.

Until you are very confident in your back strength, at least.

Better doing dorsal raises (with weights, as you progress), to improve the lower back strength.

A herniated disc is for life, not just for Christmas...
:agree:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on April 17, 2012, 11:16:47 pm
Romanian deadlifting - the name is so coool and now I know its officially dangerous I want to bust some out even more - an exercise that's so badass its going to break you or make you invincible. Time to break out the Rocky IV video. What are they again ?
Title: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on April 17, 2012, 11:21:25 pm
Uh, Si, you been to Romania lately?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on April 17, 2012, 11:55:49 pm
Uh, Si, you been to Romania lately?

My imaginings are locked on the Cold War - behind the Iron Curtain old skool Olmpic weighlifters with mad scientist coaches beasting them with 24/7 training schedules :whip:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 18, 2012, 06:12:56 am
What are you two trying to do? Getting me even more psyxhed?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Jaspersharpe on April 18, 2012, 09:51:48 am
Uh, Si, you been to Romania lately?

My imaginings are locked on the Cold War - behind the Iron Curtain old skool Olmpic weighlifters with mad scientist coaches beasting them with 24/7 training schedules pumping them full of roids and human growth hormone :whip:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cha1n on April 18, 2012, 06:04:09 pm
Up to now my only 'training' for climbing has been bouldering but I spotted this a while back and put it in my favourites. It may be of use to some people:

http://climb-strong.tumblr.com/ (http://climb-strong.tumblr.com/)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on April 20, 2012, 08:01:50 pm
Uh, Si, you been to Romania lately?

My imaginings are locked on the Cold War - behind the Iron Curtain old skool Olmpic weighlifters with mad scientist coaches beasting them with 24/7 training schedules :whip:

feeding 15 year olds turinabol saying take these vitamins,they will make you strong  :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Krank on April 20, 2012, 10:00:18 pm
Did it work?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on April 25, 2012, 09:59:06 pm
Jesus its quite intense - is it normal to feel a bit dizzy after? The bumpy boys reckoned it might have had something to do with forgetting to breathe for several minutes from the shock..

Also the gym scene takes some getting used to - its a bit much to go from feeling like the fat cnut at the crag to being the 7 stone (I wish..) weakling - I could taste the pity - I'm sure next time they're gonna strap me to the bench and force feed me whey and 'roids
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Dr T on May 02, 2012, 05:47:50 pm
2x body weight - holla  :dance1:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on May 02, 2012, 05:57:40 pm
2x body weight - holla  :dance1:
:2thumbsup:

Jesus its quite intense - is it normal to feel a bit dizzy after? The bumpy boys reckoned it might have had something to do with forgetting to breathe for several minutes from the shock..

Also the gym scene takes some getting used to - its a bit much to go from feeling like the fat cnut at the crag to being the 7 stone (I wish..) weakling - I could taste the pity - I'm sure next time they're gonna strap me to the bench and force feed me whey and 'roids

I'm really glad our local wall has a weights area so that I get to feel like the "fat cnut at the crag" all the time.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on May 05, 2012, 10:02:35 am
I'm really glad our local wall has a weights area
Lucky boy - not many British walls do weights

I thought this was interesting:
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards.html (http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards.html)

Most people here seem to be starting at intermediate and above level, from which you could infer that climbing makes you pretty good at deadlifts, and tempting to extrapolate the reverse that deadlifts help climbing

3 sessions in - feels good and I can nearly stand upright again..
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on May 05, 2012, 12:43:22 pm
for someone who is not a powerlifter,this is impressive
800 Pound Deadlift Without a Problem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI5bCcPQN1k#)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on May 05, 2012, 12:51:25 pm
this is interesting
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html (http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Richie Crouch on May 05, 2012, 01:18:57 pm
Love watching Ronnie! 'lightweight'  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on May 05, 2012, 09:49:32 pm
Love watching Ronnie! 'lightweight'  :strongbench:

when people call a 10 stone climber a beast for something or other,i think of people like this for the meaning of the term
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on May 07, 2012, 10:59:02 am
I did 190 for 1 rep today which I'm chuffed with.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on May 07, 2012, 08:51:55 pm
(http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/bellerophon23/ukb/medal.jpg)

I did 180 last week so will have a challenge to share the title tomorrow!

Which felt better - the 190 or the V3s??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on May 07, 2012, 09:19:07 pm
haha funny
definatly doing the deadlift.
i did 180 a couple of months ago,i hadnt done any for a couple of weeks.i did 180 ok today and thought id try a bit more.
ooh id best keep at them then,cant loose the medal :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on May 11, 2012, 12:05:41 pm
Word you should be doing way more than 190kg!!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Yossarian on June 08, 2012, 09:31:48 am
In preparation for IRON JULY (a six week pre-wedding fitness kick, not an ironing festival) I have been assembling the various instruments of pain in my garage. Chief amongst these is the deadlifting equipment. Had a little play the other day, and was still struggling with the technique. 80kg felt like quite a lot.

However, last night, after a number of glasses of wine, I managed 150kg! And I managed to put it down again too. I then tried 160, but my inner Hulk must've gone back to bed as the barbell stayed firmly on the floor.

Quite encouraging anyway. I do weight more than 90kg at the moment though, so some way to go before I reach the magic 2x.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on June 08, 2012, 05:44:38 pm
and was still struggling with the technique. 80kg felt like quite a lot.

However, last night, after a number of glasses of wine, I managed 150kg! And I managed to put it down again too.

 :2thumbsup:

Just be careful about the wine and lifting.  I've done beer and lifting and the results were disastrous....  Maybe wine is different though. ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Yossarian on June 08, 2012, 06:54:04 pm
Yes, probably not the most sensible approach! I have tried bench pressing in the past slightly the worse for wear and, as I recall, I got stuck under the bar and had to effect my escape via various skin shredding contortions.

Bizarrely though, I found the deadlifting process quite sobering.

When IRON JULY starts I will eschew the wine in favour of chakra-attuned magnetically balanced green-hyper-tea sports juice so will no longer have any excuses for failure.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on June 09, 2012, 11:26:06 am
Quote

Just be careful about the wine and lifting.  I've done beer and lifting and the results were disastrous....  Maybe wine is different though. ;)

not as dangerous as drunken arm wrestles though
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Serpico on June 09, 2012, 11:35:14 am

Just be careful about the wine and lifting.

Unless you're a woman... (http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/3336/1/Affect-Of-Alcohol-On-Women.html)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on June 09, 2012, 12:40:21 pm
Quote

Just be careful about the wine and lifting.  I've done beer and lifting and the results were disastrous....  Maybe wine is different though. ;)

not as dangerous as drunken arm wrestles though

 :agree:

Tore my shoulder up really badly "winning" an arm wrestle with a strong friend. couldn't train at all for about four weeks. Never again :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: pyrosis on June 23, 2012, 05:27:15 am
How do you guys program the deadlift? I have heard that the deadlift is so taxing to the nervous system that one set of five is adequate.

I've been doing them 1-2 times per week, with 1 set of 5 reps as my work set. Preceded by 5 sets of escalating warmups and then one work set. For example, this week was:

warmups
65#x5
95#x5
135#x5
185#x3
225#x2

work set
275#x5

That's only 1.5x BW
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on June 23, 2012, 11:09:37 am
Jesus its quite intense - is it normal to feel a bit dizzy after? The bumpy boys reckoned it might have had something to do with forgetting to breathe for several minutes from the shock..

Tried this yesterday as part of a general weights sessions, 3 x 5 x 80kg, felt pretty dizzy after each one. I'm guessing it's not particularly aerobic on the legs (which would fuck my shit up specifically), so I'm guessing it is just generally intense?? This is quite appealling.

I found the regular technique was easy to get right going up, harder to get right lowering the weight, was hard to keep my butt out and avoid brushing my legs.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Serpico on June 23, 2012, 11:38:03 am
Jesus its quite intense - is it normal to feel a bit dizzy after? The bumpy boys reckoned it might have had something to do with forgetting to breathe for several minutes from the shock..

Tried this yesterday as part of a general weights sessions, 3 x 5 x 80kg, felt pretty dizzy after each one. I'm guessing it's not particularly aerobic on the legs (which would fuck my shit up specifically), so I'm guessing it is just generally intense?? This is quite appealling.

Deadlifting is such an intense, full body contraction that blood pressure goes through the roof during a heavy lift because no blood can flow through occluded arteries. Couple this with 'blocking' which is a breath holding technique to stabilize the core and it's easy to get dizzy. This is one of the reasons it's so important to return the weight to the floor after each lift - so you can de-contract and take a breath.

Quote
I found the regular technique was easy to get right going up, harder to get right lowering the weight, was hard to keep my butt out and avoid brushing my legs.

Many lifters tape their shins because they drag the bar up them, don't avoid brushing your legs with the bar.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on June 23, 2012, 11:52:40 am
How do you guys program the deadlift?

I've done it only twice, so hardly an experienced lifter but last time I did the following and felt good:
5x40 (kg)
5x50
5x60
3x80
3x90
2x100
2x110
1x120
1x130

And yes, it's normal to feel dizzy. I have to sit down after every set.
And yes, it's normal to grate the shins, dragging the bar along them is part of the technique, and it helps pushing the first part from the heels. I think.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on June 23, 2012, 12:18:33 pm
Thanks  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on June 23, 2012, 12:41:49 pm
Still on the matter...
Am I the only one who finds lifting without a belt easier than with the belt?
I don't know, but whenever I've put a belt on, I felt very uncomfortable, my lower belly (below the belt) seemed to explode and I wasn't able to contract my abs.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on June 23, 2012, 08:17:46 pm
i def use a belt over 140 and 180+ i use wrist straps,i mistakingly forgot to put my belt on on a heavy lift and it didnt feel right.dont feel like i can push with legs fully
not done any for a few weeks but will have a dabble on monday again
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on June 23, 2012, 10:13:50 pm
ahah! 180+!!!
not my league!!!
thanks for the advice anyway, maybe I don't wear the belt correctly.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on June 24, 2012, 11:13:36 am
I dont use a belt or straps but my PB is 170 at a BW of 75 so not lifting that heavy relative to my weight.  I'm also short like you Nibs so have never felt the need for a belt, I hear it's different for tall peeps like Mark.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: pyrosis on June 25, 2012, 06:49:46 am
I was inspired to try singles yesterday. At a body weight of 89 kg, pulled 157 kg. Tried for 166 kg but couldn't get it to come up off the floor.  Slightly disappointing performance since I can lift 143 kg for a set of five, thought I would do better with the singles but I suppose that is just the nature of a deadlift.

Oh and I am 188cm tall and I don't use a belt.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on June 25, 2012, 07:03:38 am
I dont use a belt or straps but my PB is 170 at a BW of 75 so not lifting that heavy relative to my weight.
WTF? 2 x BW plus 20 kg, not that heavy?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: pyrosis on June 25, 2012, 08:06:09 pm
WTF? 2 x BW plus 20 kg, not that heavy?

My thoughts exactly. :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on June 26, 2012, 09:15:28 pm
did a few on monday
10 x 60
10 x 100
8 x 140
1 x 180

not bothering to try for a p.b for a few weeks.
dont like doing too much as it leaves me buggered for rest of back workout.i prefer putting more into T bar rows
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Yossarian on June 26, 2012, 09:23:26 pm
I'm still psyching up for Iron July - not tried anything beyond 160kg recently, but have another 70kg due to arrive soon, so I will have the metal (if not the ability) to try to hit some big numbers.

Was searching for some rings progression on here, but couldn't find anything. Anyone got any secret training plans worth checking out?

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on June 26, 2012, 10:05:55 pm
I dont use a belt or straps but my PB is 170 at a BW of 75 so not lifting that heavy relative to my weight.
WTF? 2 x BW plus 20 kg, not that heavy?

Sorry Nibs I wasn't meaning to sound off.   I've been told by several people and read that you shouldn't wear a belt unless you're a powerlifter _and_ when you've exhausted your ability to max out your PB.  If you put your back out it'll be down to poor technique and wearing a belt won't help.

The first time I tried a deadlift I was petrified of injuring my back until I realised its actually brilliant for strengthening the posterior muscle chain.

(I need to lift some weights soon.... not done anything for months...  :()
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on July 04, 2012, 09:55:56 am
Yo. Feedback on technique please:

fiend deadlift on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/45160470)

I feel comfortable lifting at 80, and starting to feel comfortable lifting at 100, but still doesn't feel quite right lowering down. After doing these few, I did try leaning forward a bit more and it felt like I wasn't arching my back too much.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on July 04, 2012, 10:19:05 am
Yo. Feedback on technique please:

fiend deadlift on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/45160470)

Looks fine but what do I know. Socks or barefoot is reckoned to be better. Maybe look up a bit more. I prefer to rest between reps to keep form.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on July 04, 2012, 12:49:18 pm
Seems fine to me. Don't know much though.
I'd say:
- no air shoes. They make for an unstable base. Barefoot is best. And looks good also.
- look up more right from the start, pushing your chest up.
- I try to start driving my hips in, earlier, when my legs are still quite bent. You seem to extend the legs almost completely and then drive hips in. Don't know which is best.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mr__j5 on July 04, 2012, 03:58:52 pm
I have no education on this, but it looks like you are too keen to get the knees back out of the way and are then left with a fairly horizontal back that then takes all the load for the second half of the lift.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on July 04, 2012, 06:13:17 pm
Hi Fiend - try finishing the lift by pulling the shoulders back, it'll feel complete and help with the lower.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on July 04, 2012, 10:21:41 pm
Thanks dudez.

Will do the looking up a bit more and pulling shoulders back. I presume driving the hips in earlier will start pivoting my back earlier, so Nibble and j5 are talking about the same thing? I will try to do that.

Any more tips, FD? Since you and mark s are mr deadlift  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on July 04, 2012, 11:01:50 pm
If nothing is hurting then put another 20 or 30 k on the bar and you'll soon find the right position.

If you pull a bad lift, then drop the weight by the same amount or just grab an empty bar and do the movement and do some clean lifts, then add weight.

Also, do some wall squats with no weight, that's the posture you need.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on July 05, 2012, 06:23:32 am
Thanks dudez.

Will do the looking up a bit more and pulling shoulders back. I presume driving the hips in earlier will start pivoting my back earlier, so Nibble and j5 are talking about the same thing?
I think so.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on July 05, 2012, 08:37:15 am
Thanks beefcakes.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on July 05, 2012, 09:46:17 am
The lift is ok, but when lowering you're bending the knees too early and quickly so the arms swing forward which will put unwanted pressure on the lower back.

This may help-  http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html)





Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Yossarian on July 05, 2012, 09:41:26 pm
Got myself a nice little progression planned to build up to 170 / 180, but after 3x 10x 90kg and a few goes at 130 and 150, I thought fuck it, syked up and tried 170. Bastard thing was completely stuck to the ground... Hmmm.

Did 160 again a couple of times, but could tell that my form was a bit shit, so am going to stick to the original plan for a few weeks and focus on building up to 8 - 10 reps on bigger and bigger loads.

Going for a run afterwards felt a bit weird I must say...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on July 07, 2012, 01:27:48 pm
fiend,like ben says.if you stick more weight on your form will be a bit smoother,the extra weight will force you to lift it better.i will keep my head up at the top just try and bring the shoulders blades together a little.thats good for giving your traps a bit of extra work,and traps are what its all about
try and roll the bar down the shins
keep at and you will find the best way to lift that suits you.
try some T bar rows if they have one.they a good strength builder
good to see climbers doing a real sport rather than messing around on sit down starts  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on July 08, 2012, 07:20:09 pm
Thanks, was putting this stuff into practise the other day, I think I'm getting it a bit better, trying to focus on doing a lot of work with my legs and rolling my shoulders back at the end. I think I'm lowering smoother too.

My back has been a bit achey (muscular, not spinal / tweaky) so I'm keeping it up to 100kg at the mo and working on control.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: lagerstarfish on July 14, 2012, 06:45:10 am
I've been doing a few gentle lifts as part of my ankle rehab

main difficulties have been - getting into a decent starting position due to the limited range of movement (starting with bar 30cm from floor) - and trying to get more of the weight through my heels

managed 150kg yesterday

which might sound reasonable until you realise that this is not much more than 150% BW  :weakbench:

still, it's a great confidence booster and is far more interesting than yet more fucking leg presses
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cheque on July 19, 2012, 12:47:43 pm
I'm getting quite into deadlifting- PB after 3 sessions is 90kg- 1.5xBW.

I do other core training as well but I find deadlifting has hit some real weaknesses as some of the other core I do seems easier now and (more importantly) it's affected my climbing- on steep crimpy stuff my weak fingers are really highlighted! Most noticable is the improvement in my ability to find no-hands rests- I suddenly seem to be able to just 'stand there' and shake both arms out in quite surprising places.

Anyway, I've got most of my weight from Ebay and Gumtree and one guy sold me three 10kg plates so I have an 'odd' one that it seems unlikely I'll find a matching partner for- it's a vinyl one so quite big and wide compared to iron ones. How important is it to have  precise match on both sides of the bar? Can I get away with just getting any old 10kg plate to pair it with?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on July 19, 2012, 01:12:32 pm
I'm getting quite into deadlifting- PB after 3 sessions is 90kg- 1.5xBW.

I do other core training as well but I find deadlifting has hit some real weaknesses as some of the other core I do seems easier now and (more importantly) it's affected my climbing- on steep crimpy stuff my weak fingers are really highlighted! Most noticable is the improvement in my ability to find no-hands rests- I suddenly seem to be able to just 'stand there' and shake both arms out in quite surprising places.

Anyway, I've got most of my weight from Ebay and Gumtree and one guy sold me three 10kg plates so I have an 'odd' one that it seems unlikely I'll find a matching partner for- it's a vinyl one so quite big and wide compared to iron ones. How important is it to have  precise match on both sides of the bar? Can I get away with just getting any old 10kg plate to pair it with?

That's great news. Cant see the diameter of the weight being important provided its the right size hole for your bar though vinyl weights aren't cool. Also to save you buying more weights have you tried pistol squats or Sasquatch's one legged deadlift? Take some footage as it could be comical.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Dr T on July 19, 2012, 08:03:18 pm
For info to those looking for extra weight I just got 60 kg off ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-40-60kg-Weight-Set-4ft-Standard-Barbell-Dumbbell-Bar-Rubber-10kg-Plates-Discs-/270998217631?pt=UK_Strength_Training&var=&hash=item3f18c0a39f) for £79.99 which is pretty cheap with the normal price seeming to be about £2 a kg
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on July 20, 2012, 12:53:15 pm
Not sure if this has been posted before, but I just checked on the york website and their 1" diameter bars are only rated to 125Kg. I had noticed the bar bending quite a lot, but didn't think much of it. It would be a disaster if the bar snapped during a lift, could do all sorts of damage to person, let alone property  :'(

Looks like i need to obtain a grown-up set of weights.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Bubba on July 27, 2012, 08:16:35 pm
Impressive pukelifting skills

sick of deadlifting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tMxoSLWUfk#ws)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on July 30, 2012, 11:24:29 am
Vile, why did I even click on that, should be in the log pile / how weird are some people thread  :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on July 30, 2012, 11:26:07 am
On topic, I'm doing 5x70, 5x80, 5x90 and 5x100 each weights session and my back doesn't feel so tired/achey afterwards which is good. Couple more sessions like that and I'll try a bit heavier. Managed 90kg squats the other day which isn't bad for someone who can't run 10 minutes  :whip:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: lagerstarfish on July 30, 2012, 12:47:33 pm
I watched the 56kg men's Olympic lifting yesterday

little men doing clean and jerk with more weight than I can deadlift

winner did 168kg on his clean and jerk

3 times bodyweight

amazing
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Richie Crouch on August 07, 2012, 07:13:30 am
Had a second session ever yesterday, Managing 3 reps on 120 which felt quite hard and still 20kg short of 2x BW. I've got long sparrow legs so guessing its normal for my hamstrings and the very top of legs to lower arse area to feel worked?

Good to read other people go a bit dizzy too and sit down between sets! Assumed it was the sudden rush of blood to the legs which aren't used to doing anything most of the time!

I'm a bit scared not to use a belt as hoppo Sr used to do a lot of weightlifting and told me to always use one for deadlift? Are there any negatives to using one? Maybe having it too tight increases the feeling of light headedness?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on August 07, 2012, 11:11:39 am
Yes, the hamstrings and glutes get worked hard when deadlfiting.

The light headedness is the rush of blood away from the head, I get that too so I tend just to do single reps when going heavy.

I don't feel the need to use a belt myself, they are more aimed at helping support the lower back / abs / core to assist the lift, which is sort of defeating the purpose of doing them I think.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on September 28, 2012, 10:00:04 pm
Should I try squats if I want to improve my deadlift? Will this make me a better climber? I think not but guys at the gym are saying squats are key for a heavier deadlift... I think they've got little to do with climbing so not really what I want? I've done very little gym work but am finding deadlifting surprisingly easy.

I'm also surprised that the weight is rolling out of my hands... I though climbers had a strong grip!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on September 30, 2012, 09:11:11 pm
Should I try squats if I want to improve my deadlift? Will this make me a better climber? I think not but guys at the gym are saying squats are key for a heavier deadlift... I think they've got little to do with climbing so not really what I want? I've done very little gym work but am finding deadlifting surprisingly easy.

I'm also surprised that the weight is rolling out of my hands... I though climbers had a strong grip!

Your grip will be adequate for climbing and there is no reason for it to be any stronger unless you train it (my limit on deadlift without straps is unsurprisingly around 2x bodyweight)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on September 30, 2012, 10:41:43 pm
Okay cheers (this was 2x bodyweight)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on October 01, 2012, 07:34:03 am
We had a physio student down the wall about ten years ago measuring grip strength and about 90% of those of us tested were within 15% (either over or under) of their own bodyweight. There was the odd exception, like a strong traddy (won't name names without encouragement) who only got about 60% bodyweight, but he crimps everything so not entirely unsurprising.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on October 28, 2012, 05:51:54 pm
Ouch  :o

I decided to start doing some training before the start of the ski season. I haven't actually been in the gym for about a year.

Warmed up and then got on with some front squats and deadlifts. By the second set I was really starting to feel something in my hamstring/glute/groin area complaining. Not a pull - more like having the DOMS, but, instant rather than the day after.

Dropped the weight a bit and did a few more but tried not to push it. 3 days of pain followed! Something deep in my hamstrings, possibly this:  http://www.getbodysmart.com/ap/muscularsystem/thighmuscles/posteriormuscles/semimembranosus/tutorial.html (http://www.getbodysmart.com/ap/muscularsystem/thighmuscles/posteriormuscles/semimembranosus/tutorial.html)

Anyone else had this?

A week later I went back in and swapped to overhead squats and skipped the deadlifts but did some lunges and some 1-arm snatches. A bit of DOMS in the quads and a the hamstrings but not nearly as bad as before.

Is there a way of preventing the hamstring problems? Or just take it easier to begin with?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on October 29, 2012, 04:07:35 pm
easier to begin with.....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: hamsforlegs on October 29, 2012, 06:32:54 pm
Is there a way of preventing the hamstring problems? Or just take it easier to begin with?

Like what Sasquatch says.

That pain could come from squatting if you haven't been in the gym for a bit. Go easy on the squats and/or keep the DLs and squats in separate workouts for a bit and you'll be reet.

Sometimes a few light reps with a good range of motion can help to get the DOMs moving. Sometimes not.

Oh, and remember to warm up a bit.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on October 29, 2012, 07:33:18 pm
Take it easy.
Check your hips mobility and all the posterios muscles stretch.
Ensure the best technique throughout the whole excercise.
I generally do a light but specific warm up with just the barbell, before adding any weight to it.
It's based on 6 reps:
- ground to shins
- ground to hips (calves push up, trapezius contracts)
- ground to overhead
- ground to overhead then squat
It's somewhere on t-nation.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cheque on November 01, 2012, 09:08:47 pm
Just did 2xBW. Fucking yes.   :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on November 01, 2012, 09:17:13 pm
 :dance1:  :2thumbsup:

Well done. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on November 01, 2012, 10:16:16 pm
Just did 2xBW. Fucking yes.   :strongbench:

Nice one Mike.

You can stop now.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on November 01, 2012, 10:26:07 pm
How much do you weigh? 4 plates a side is the big dog!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on November 02, 2012, 06:15:20 am
Yes, well done!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cheque on November 02, 2012, 11:16:50 am
Cheers everyone!  ;D

You can stop now.

Yep, I will do- no interest in weights apart from their benefit to my climbing. I'm focusing on finger strength and lock-off strength now. It was actually the first time I'd done any core for more than a month as I don't feel like it's really a weak point for me any more.

How much do you weigh? 4 plates a side is the big dog!

I weigh 60kg. Did 120 last night. I shudder to think how much 4 plates a side means. 160? I use my own weights in my living room, so going heavier would mean buying more or joining a gym- not keen for either of those!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on November 02, 2012, 11:22:46 am
Fucksake, I did 120 months ago, you skinny fucker, miniscule BW is cheating Well done  :strongbench:.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on November 02, 2012, 12:52:19 pm
My next target would be/is 2,5 x BW with the dream being 3 x BW.
Despite not lifting regularly, since when I started doing snatches, I repeated my previous deadlift PB in each session.
In the last one especially, two weeks ago, I was tempted to step it up a notch but played it safe because I had ten days off for climbing, then.
On the following day I went to the roof and despite temps in the mid 20's I walked up the direct line and nearly did the hard extention. I was bolted to the holds, it felt amazing.
Talk about recruitment.
On the same matter, last Sunday I went to a comp, and after a few hours of bouldering, I managed to do a good number of one armers.
I think that there is a lot that I don't know about how our/my body responds to training stimuli. Recruitment, neural activation, etc.
It would be interesting to experiment a good lifting session before a climbing day to check if it was just a coincidence or can be taken advantage of.
This is just to say that I think that most climbers could benefit from some lifting.
And yes, in a gym crowded with skinny fat cardio freaks in a pool of sweat, and meatheads doing just isolation routines for pecs and biceps, lifting as heavy as one can is really really cool.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on November 02, 2012, 03:43:51 pm
I weigh 60kg. Did 120 last night. I shudder to think how much 4 plates a side means. 160? I use my own weights in my living room, so going heavier would mean buying more or joining a gym- not keen for either of those!

4 plates a side is 160 plus the bar, so 180. That's 3 times bodyweight for you but less than 2.5 times for.
Nibile, what do you find best for front core? Deadlifts are giving me a strong back but steep bouldering recently I found I couldn't hold toe hooks like I used to. Front levers? Cheers!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on November 02, 2012, 03:59:49 pm
Hey Douglas!
Hmm, I don't know... I think I have a rather good core, but I'm terrible at toe hooking... maybe it's the tibialis muscle, and even the shape of the shoes can be crucial. For good toehooking very downturned shoes aren't great in my opinion.
Anyway, here's all the work I do that involves core tension:
- steep bouldering with poor footholds; setting problems on which you either can't do the move, or you swing and fall without good core;
- lock offs, face on, no twisting, with poor footholds;
- front levers and front lever pulls (while fingerboarding);
- deadlifting, snatch, press and some easy overhead squat.
Basically everything I do involves core tension.  :oops:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on November 02, 2012, 04:07:09 pm
Agree with nibs about the tibialis.  Also for toehooking, I think an area of pretty extreme weakness for most people is their hip flexor. 

On a more geneic view, I think there's a pretty big difference between isometric core tension strength, and dynamic core strength.  Many climbers have good core tension in their back, but poor dynamic ability hence why deadlifting helps.  I think the same tends to be true for the abs/obliques as well.  I do halfmoons and weighted ankles to bar to help with this....

Not 100%, but it seems like it makes a difference for me...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on November 02, 2012, 07:57:22 pm
Thanks for the advice, both. Something to think about before I visit the cave again...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cheque on November 02, 2012, 09:59:45 pm
Fucksake, I did 120 months ago, you skinny fucker, miniscule BW is cheating

Keep it to yourself, but I wasn't hungover either.  ;)

4 plates a side is 160 plus the bar, so 180. That's 3 times bodyweight for you but less than 2.5 times for.

A 20kg bar sounds hardcore. Mine must weigh a couple of kilos max and I don't factor it into the weight I'm lifting. Pretty sure my bar wouldn't even support 180kg!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on November 03, 2012, 07:35:40 am

A 20kg bar sounds hardcore. Mine must weigh a couple of kilos max and I don't factor it into the weight I'm lifting. Pretty sure my bar wouldn't even support 180kg!

120 kilos on a crappy bar? Big no no.
Very dangerous.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on November 03, 2012, 08:34:34 am

A 20kg bar sounds hardcore. Mine must weigh a couple of kilos max and I don't factor it into the weight I'm lifting. Pretty sure my bar wouldn't even support 180kg!

120 kilos on a crappy bar? Big no no.
Very dangerous.
:agree:
I posted about this earlier on in the thread. The york spinlock bars are at their max with that kind of load. The consequences of the bar snapping don't bear thinking about
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on November 05, 2012, 07:29:34 pm
120kg x 3 at the gym today (gym bar is 20kg in itself so no worries there). First time in ages so quite pleased with that. Felt HARD tho.  :weakbench: rather than  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on November 05, 2012, 09:42:05 pm
come on fiend,120 is a warm up weight  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on November 05, 2012, 11:23:24 pm
 >:( :P
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on November 06, 2012, 12:09:42 pm
 :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on November 06, 2012, 12:42:55 pm
120kg x 3 at the gym today (gym bar is 20kg in itself so no worries there). First time in ages so quite pleased with that. Felt HARD tho.  :weakbench: rather than  :strongbench:

Fiend, you're going about this all the wrong way - you should not be worrying about weight you lift, but the inspiration that the bar and plates gives you. Stop being such a rampant weight chaser.  :fishing:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on November 06, 2012, 01:20:14 pm
Bellend  :P

Funny enough, part of my motivation to go to the gym and do weights is a prior imagining of, and desire for, what it feels like to use my body in that way, presses and squats especially.

That and avoiding cardio.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on November 06, 2012, 02:00:00 pm
 :lol:

It is quite an addictive feeling moving metal. Especially whole body movements. I quite like the OH squats for that reason.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on November 06, 2012, 02:03:36 pm
You are a bunch of sad weight chasers.
I lift just to feel as part of a beautiful environment. To soak up the beauty.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on November 06, 2012, 03:34:52 pm
you sad twats,i did it for real reasons.to get big arms and make all your t shirts tight.its not about what you lift.your muscles cant read the kgs on weight plates  :P
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on November 06, 2012, 04:41:57 pm
You guys are all wrong.  It's all about impressing the dumb gym birds...... 

Especially as the climbing birds are too smart for me.   ;D
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Serpico on November 06, 2012, 04:52:17 pm
You guys are all wrong.  It's all about impressing the dumb gym birds...... 

Especially as the climbing birds are too smart for me.   ;D

Time for a new thread: DFBWGDL
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on November 06, 2012, 05:31:48 pm
You guys are all wrong.  It's all about impressing the dumb gym birds...... 

Especially as the climbing birds are too smart for me.   ;D

Time for a new thread: DFBWGDL

That seems like a bit of an contradiction in terms
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Serpico on November 06, 2012, 05:37:31 pm
(http://www.muscleprodigy.com/content/articles/home/the-benefits-of-deadlifting-for-women-3070.jpg)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on November 06, 2012, 05:49:31 pm
Ouch!

She's about to DL 160+kg!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on November 06, 2012, 07:50:20 pm
id eat my hat if she dl 180kg def a dfbwgdl though  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on November 06, 2012, 10:55:47 pm
I was lifting 125 the other night and at this weight I switch to a mixed grip because the bar rolls out of a double overhand. However I was told I can tear a bicep lifting the mixed grip and should use straps instead with a double overhand. Is this good advice? Currently I've been lifting without a belt or straps, just because. I'm still a climber who deadlifts, not the other way round. Thanks!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on November 07, 2012, 12:53:05 am
No straps. Straps for are powerlifters and body builders not athletes.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on November 07, 2012, 06:30:54 am
It would be interesting to experiment a good lifting session before a climbing day to check if it was just a coincidence or can be taken advantage of.
I'm keeping up with this experiment, yesterday I was due to train at a friends' Moonboard and so the day before I went to the gym.
I did the usual session, snatch, deadlift, press and left. Really pushed it despite not feeling perfect.
Yesterday on the board I felt good. It was very hot and my skin was terrible, but I managed a 7c+ second go, with an impressive - for me - core. My friend, always too kind with me, texted me later "I wanted to try the 7c+ but the holds are all cracked".
Obviously I can't tell how I would have performed without the lifting session, maybe 8a maybe 7b, but for sure I think it did no harm to the climbing itself.
Unfortunately now I can't lift on Fridays due to my climbing classes, and on Saturdays the gym closes early, so I don't know. It could be a lifting session on a Thursday, Friday Beastmaker at home before the class, Saturday and Sunday climbing.
We'll see.
Keep the fucking faith.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on November 07, 2012, 07:37:38 am
No straps. Straps for are powerlifters and body builders not athletes.
Thanks. Mixed grip or not?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on November 07, 2012, 07:45:37 am
try both,which ever feels best.i only ever did mixed grip.i always used a belt when over 3 plates
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Serpico on November 07, 2012, 08:31:59 am
No straps. Straps for are powerlifters and body builders not athletes.
Thanks. Mixed grip or not?

I'd say not, it'll let you lift more but you start to build asymmetries.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on November 07, 2012, 11:14:07 am
I use a mixed grip when going heavy and alternate which hand is over/under to keep things even. I don't use straps or a belt either.

But there are some that don't like the mixed grip, believing it can result in a teared bicep.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on November 28, 2012, 07:37:22 pm
just watching world strongest man. a bloke just did 11 reps with 350kg  :strongbench: :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on November 28, 2012, 10:37:20 pm
Just watched it too.

We are sooooooooo weak in comparison

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on December 06, 2012, 12:47:00 pm
Can;t fucking deadlift much at the mo as the bar is pressing on my A2 injury and I can't maintain a good grip  FFS  >:(
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on December 06, 2012, 03:18:49 pm
Can;t fucking deadlift much at the mo as the bar is pressing on my A2 injury and I can't maintain a good grip  FFS  >:(


Straps? (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maximuscle-MX-1077-Bar-Wrist-Strap/dp/B000SUMF8C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1354807073&sr=8-2)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on December 06, 2012, 04:11:53 pm
Do I have to? People (both at the gym and on this forum) will think I'm some sort of pro, and then fall about laughing that I can't even lift 2XBW  :'(

(p.s. good idea)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on December 07, 2012, 10:09:53 am
Do I have to? People (both at the gym and on this forum) will think I'm some sort of pro, and then fall about laughing that I can't even lift 2XBW  :'(

(p.s. good idea)

dont worry,they wont think you are a pro saying 2xbw,they deal in kg's  :strongbench:

get some straps,they are useful.also good for lat pull downs and t bar/bent over rows.your grip will start to give before your back muscles and afterall it is your back you are training.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on December 19, 2012, 07:55:32 pm
was going to do some deadlifting today.started back at the gym this week,did legs yesterday and my legs  are crippled.
deadlifting would have needed the A+E afterwards.3 months no lifting and i am  :weakbench: x10
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on December 19, 2012, 08:35:08 pm
Does anyone think there is a relative cap on climbing applicable strength from DL?

I can 3 sets of 5 reps of 2xbw and am pretty much thinking I don't really need to get stronger in this area. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on December 20, 2012, 07:18:59 pm
I would guess that you are about there...? I can 5x5 at 1.7BW and think my body strength is not far off what I need. Depends how hard you are pulling with your hands I guess, Nalle, Malc, Daniel could probably deadlift more because they can transmit more power to the rock through their fingers.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on December 20, 2012, 07:39:26 pm
I would guess that you are about there...? I can 5x5 at 1.7BW and think my body strength is not far off what I need. Depends how hard you are pulling with your hands I guess, Nalle, Malc, Daniel could probably deadlift more because they can transmit more power to the rock through their fingers.

Now I'm confused?  Why would having stronger fingers also lend itself to a stronger DL?  IME, it's the other way around...

That said I would guess they're reasonably strong at DL(%bw) because their BW is so low...  They all weigh like 50-60kg instead of my 80+kg....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on December 20, 2012, 08:41:19 pm
The way I see it is that as your fingers get stronger, your body needs to get stronger to hold the more demanding positions. And as those climbers have very strong fingers, their bodies must be strong as well. It's the rusty car analogy in Performance Rock Climbing. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on December 20, 2012, 09:03:19 pm


That said I would guess they're reasonably strong at DL(%bw) because their BW is so low...  They all weigh like 50-60kg instead of my 80+kg....

yeah, its a lot easier to have a higher power to weight if you weigh the same as a girl
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: nai on January 08, 2013, 12:23:22 pm
This is the vid I use to drill in the proper technique which I followed carefully due to back problems and had no problems

Mark Rippetoe: Deadlift Set-Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA#)


Ok, new to the club. I've read the first and last few pages of this thread. Without reading the remainder right now, is this the accepted technique, pushing off heels, or has anyone posted anything else. I always envisaged my back being a lot more upright but  :shrug: obviously
Cheers
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on January 16, 2013, 12:10:04 pm
Long time lurker/procrastinator on this thread.

Finally got a key cut for the rugby club's (who I've played a couple of games for in the past) weights room, so I plan to head down tonight and get my deadlifting career off the ground (pun intended)!!
Going to start very light and work on proper technique and add weight from there, maybe only adding a plate or two at the end of the session.

I've never done any weightlifting before and have injured my lower back a couple of times (partially herniated disk and partially torn disk on separate occasions, one of which was playing for the aforementioned rugby team), so this is a little risky but at the same time strengthening my lower back and core in general is also my main motivation here.

I'll post up how I get on and am going to be using Shark's video to work form tonight. Oh and I'm 6'6" and 97kg... 2x BW = 194kg?!?!  :ohmy:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on January 16, 2013, 04:11:06 pm
This is the vid I use to drill in the proper technique which I followed carefully due to back problems and had no problems

Mark Rippetoe: Deadlift Set-Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA#)


Ok, new to the club. I've read the first and last few pages of this thread. Without reading the remainder right now, is this the accepted technique, pushing off heels, or has anyone posted anything else. I always envisaged my back being a lot more upright but  :shrug: obviously
Cheers

Yes. Deadlifting is primarily a hinge motion betwen the hips and core, so your back will start off at close to a 45degree angle and move to vertical.
I've never done any weightlifting before and have injured my lower back a couple of times (partially herniated disk and partially torn disk on separate occasions, one of which was playing for the aforementioned rugby team), so this is a little risky but at the same time strengthening my lower back and core in general is also my main motivation here.

I'll post up how I get on and am going to be using Shark's video to work form tonight. Oh and I'm 6'6" and 97kg... 2x BW = 194kg?!?!  :ohmy:
Not really too risky as long as you are very patient and take your time.  I'm no doc, but in general it seems like post injury for most people, getting back into strenuous activity is good for the final stage of the healing process. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on January 16, 2013, 04:15:50 pm

I've never done any weightlifting before and have injured my lower back a couple of times (partially herniated disk and partially torn disk on separate occasions, one of which was playing for the aforementioned rugby team), so this is a little risky but at the same time strengthening my lower back and core in general is also my main motivation here.

I'll post up how I get on and am going to be using Shark's video to work form tonight. Oh and I'm 6'6" and 97kg... 2x BW = 194kg?!?!  :ohmy:
Not really too risky as long as you are very patient and take your time.  I'm no doc, but in general it seems like post injury for most people, getting back into strenuous activity is good for the final stage of the healing process.

Thanks for the reassurance Sasquatch!  :smirk:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: nai on January 16, 2013, 04:41:04 pm
This is the vid I use to drill in the proper technique which I followed carefully due to back problems and had no problems

Mark Rippetoe: Deadlift Set-Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA#)


Ok, new to the club. I've read the first and last few pages of this thread. Without reading the remainder right now, is this the accepted technique, pushing off heels, or has anyone posted anything else. I always envisaged my back being a lot more upright but  :shrug: obviously
Cheers

Yes. Deadlifting is primarily a hinge motion betwen the hips and core, so your back will start off at close to a 45degree angle and move to vertical.
 

Cheers, done about five sessions now and it doesn't feel anything like as bad as expected in that position, I'm also a former prolapsed disc sufferer so really feared I'd pop it straight out first lift.

Taking it slow to get the technique learned and reduce the chance of  injury, up to six lifts of 120% BW, might chuck another 10kg on next time which will be 133%.  Can already feel the difference this and the Turkish Get-Ups are making on "normal" core/abs exercises, so much stronger on them.  Like everyone at this stage, wondering why I waited so long.


Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on January 17, 2013, 09:32:54 am
So, first deadlifting and general weights session last night...

Tried with just the 20 kg bar first and practised the movement with the aim of getting good technique before adding weight.
Technique felt natural so started adding weight, probably quicker than I should have but I got caught up in the buzz!  :look:

Ended up doing;
5 x 20kg
6 x 40kg
10 x 60kg
5 x 60kg
6 x 80kg

80kg felt heavy after everything before it and not even 1 x BW!
Will probably leave it at that for this week and go twice next week, once I've let me back have a few days off.
Back felt fine while doing it and front of quads felt most tired part of me afterwards! 5km run the next morning stretched them oput though.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: yankcranker on January 17, 2013, 01:36:30 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels.  Learning a good squat and wall squat technique will help

any links to a thread/blog write up on your gym jones experience? sounds rad, big fan of twight's...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on January 24, 2013, 10:43:23 am
Second deadlifting session, this time with a bit more structure.
Ended up doing;
5 x 60kg
5 x 60kg
5 x 60kg
5 x 80kg
5 x 80kg

This is as part of a 5x5 program over 3 exercises (which I suppose mean its '3x5x5') - deadlift, bench press and bent over row.
Not climbing much at the moment due to 10 month old being on the scene (which is awesome but not as much time for climbing) with the aim of building core and upper body/arm strength up.

Not big weight at the moment but having had a couple of back injuries I am being cautious... and 80kg feels heavy at the moment!  :-[
Formed dropped a little during one of the sets and I could feel it twinge in my back but its amazing when you do ensure your follow proper form its feels great!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on January 24, 2013, 05:07:07 pm
Well done!!!  Keep at it and it's amazing how the body will adapt and get stronger :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on January 24, 2013, 05:13:36 pm
Thanks Sasquatch!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 24, 2013, 05:17:04 pm
Just in case...
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_600pound_deadlift_textbook (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_600pound_deadlift_textbook)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on January 25, 2013, 10:27:14 am
Just in case...
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_600pound_deadlift_textbook (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_600pound_deadlift_textbook)

Wowzers, all xience has left me blind...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Stenno on January 25, 2013, 10:45:15 am
Any other lanky bastards really struggle with Deadlifts?

I'm giving the big three routine a go (Bench, Squat, Deadlift) and have had no problems at all with bench pressing or squats but I just can't lift with proper deadlift form at all, even with an experienced mate instructing me. Feels painfully cramped with my arms and legs obstructing the movement.

I'm 196cm tall with a positive ape index pretty good flexibillity, is there a height limit for deadlifts being a worthwhile exercise? The benefits sound great reading through this thread but I'm very tempted to substitute for them with Squats and a series of core excercises.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on January 25, 2013, 11:28:59 am
Any other lanky bastards really struggle with Deadlifts?

I'm giving the big three routine a go (Bench, Squat, Deadlift) and have had no problems at all with bench pressing or squats but I just can't lift with proper deadlift form at all, even with an experienced mate instructing me. Feels painfully cramped with my arms and legs obstructing the movement.

I'm 196cm tall with a positive ape index pretty good flexibillity, is there a height limit for deadlifts being a worthwhile exercise? The benefits sound great reading through this thread but I'm very tempted to substitute for them with Squats and a series of core excercises.

I'm 198cm.
It does feel bunched alright and you have to go pretty deep with the hips - i.e. parallel or even below knee level - in order to keep my torso from being parallel to the ground.

I'll take that as the excuse for me not even being able to lift 1xBW at the mo...  :-[ It'll build though and I'm being patient.
Other than that it does feel great though and even with those adjustments the movement of the lift feels great! :weakbench:

Does you experience sound similar Stenno?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 25, 2013, 09:58:15 pm
im 6'-3 and find them a bit awkward but still do them,started back on deadlifts this week after not doing them for a while.enjoy doing them.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 28, 2013, 12:07:29 pm
My A2 tweak has healed enough to grip the bar (need chalk next time), and am back up to 1.6 x BW, will try more...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 31, 2013, 03:11:21 pm
Back to lifting after ages!!!
Iron Saturday on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/58624830)
Iron Saturday on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/58624826)
Iron Saturday on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/58624825)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 31, 2013, 03:39:17 pm
1.7 x BW with a bit of chalk and now I've retweaked my A2 again so will have to ease off FFFFFFSSSS  :spank:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 02, 2013, 01:36:12 pm
1.7 x BW with a bit of chalk and now I've retweaked my A2 again so will have to ease off FFFFFFSSSS  :spank:
Surely you can do something using straps or - even better - hooks! Just to keep it coming, especially for technique.
I'm back to 2xBW this morning. Happy!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 04, 2013, 01:35:18 pm
i couldnt be arsed deadlifting last time i went the gym again.id prefer mixing it up a bit.plus i do squats on leg day so that is pretty much the same.
will try and get motivated for some soon
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Richie Crouch on February 07, 2013, 06:28:06 pm
good article linked on the arnie fan club on faceache today: http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/deadlift-101 (http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/deadlift-101)

Think I'm doing it fairly right now and just need to work towards lifting the same weight with double overhand as I can with an alternate grip. 6kg short of my year goal of 2x body weight but doing it super slowly as I have a big fear of crippling my back!  :-*
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fatboy on February 08, 2013, 12:00:52 pm
Deadlifting update...

Finally broke my 1xBW barrier - YYFY!! (BW = 96kg)
No session last week due to our daughter being sick but I felt good after a week for my body to fully recover.

Did a session of;
60kg x 5
60kg x 5
90kg x 5
90kg x 5
100kg x 5
110kg x 1  :2thumbsup:

I felt like I could have done another few reps at 110kg but as in my previous posts the reason for doing this is to strengthen my back which has been injured a couple of times, so I thought it sensible (read: boring?) to leave it at that!

Felt great afterwards and I have a satisfying dose of DOMS to show for my efforts!  :smirk:

Next goal: 1.5xBW = 145kg  :blink:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: krymson on April 12, 2013, 07:06:33 am
Unlike the squat where both phases are important, the most important part of the deadlift is the actual lift so there's no need to perform on the  lower(negative) phase as you would on most exercises.

So if the gym has good enough padding it may be ok for you to simply drop the bar half way down if it's aggravating, and I've seen people do that.

I would add though that personally i find with good form and a light enough weight(we're climbers, not bodybuilders) that I have no problem doing a controlled lower as well.

If you do have excessive aggravation from just keeping a reasonable weight in control while lowering it to the ground, try reducing the weight, having your form checked, and doing some supplementary exercises for the back(such as good mornings with just the bar, or romanian deadlifts with the bar and a very light weight) to build up a solid base in the lower back and get a feel for the proper biomechanics of these kinds of lifts before resuming the deadlift.

Added benefit of the romanians and good mornings is that since they will engage your lower back more directly and less so the legs(which can build up mass quick), I feel they're actually as good or better for climbing than the deadlift, which is more of a bodybuilding exercise imo.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on April 12, 2013, 10:38:01 am
been lucky enough to get some training/ coaching on deadlift techique recently, and contrary to what most people thought the lowering is just as important as the lifting.

You need to make sure you do a complete reversal of how you lifted it (hinge your hips back), not just drop it fast or just use the lower back to lean forward and lower!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on April 12, 2013, 05:05:04 pm
been lucky enough to get some training/ coaching on deadlift techique recently, and contrary to what most people thought the lowering is just as important as the lifting.

You need to make sure you do a complete reversal of how you lifted it (hinge your hips back), not just drop it fast or just use the lower back to lean forward and lower!!!
I second this.  Lowering is important to any controlled lift.  The only time you don't is on explosive lifts. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: krymson on April 12, 2013, 05:54:41 pm
live and learn!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 27, 2013, 06:31:24 am
I wonder what I've done to my body in the last couple of years.
After a long layoff from the gym - months - yesterday I went back and founf myself quite strong. I FELT stronger than before the layoff, and managed to deadlift 125 kg easily. I mean, very easily, with my PB being 134 so not far away.
I wanted to try and push it a little bit, bit that seemed enough.

I'll have a Moonboard session today, very curious to assess things.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on April 27, 2013, 03:58:36 pm

I'll have a Moonboard session today, very curious to assess things.
Should have been less curious! On the black holds I could't do one single problem!!!
Back to the gym now!!!  :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: ianv on May 03, 2013, 03:34:49 pm
Is there some way of calculating 1 rep max ?

Currently managing 2xBW (125kg) 3x4 reps and seemingly improving everytime I do them. Would be interested in trying a really max load though without the faffing of working it out by trial and error.

Cheers
Ian
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: krymson on May 03, 2013, 05:49:41 pm
here you go http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html (http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html)

btw, unless there is some leg specific problem you are working on, 2xbw is probably at the upper limits of the returns you will get from deadlifting.

The purpose of a compound exercise like the deadlift in terms of climbing would be strengthening the back, conditioning the body and the ability to produce tension through the feet. 1xbw is a good standard, 1.5xbw 1 rep max is not a bad goal, but beyond that, I dont see deadlift strength directly translating to climbing performance, as Nibile has found out.

In fact the negative impact of deadlifts(and squats) is that they build up the leg muscles, which are the heaviest muscle group.

If you have felt the impact of even 1 or 2kg bodyweight on your climbing, you will know what im talking about. and yes it is easy to put on 2kg of leg weight.

2xBW is at the upper limit of what you need imo. go hang on the fingerboard, work core specific exercises, or do antagonists/shoulders/lock off /eccentrics instead, it will be a far more effective use of your limited training time and energy.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: ianv on May 03, 2013, 09:10:04 pm
Cheers for the link   136-140kg  :whip:

I hear what you are saying about the training but as I don't really climb that seriously any more its not a problem   :shrug:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on May 03, 2013, 10:19:21 pm
2xBW is fine as a benchmark for DL.  A bodyweight Snatch and a 1.5 C&J would be the next goals.  Good all round athletic ability.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: ianv on May 03, 2013, 10:56:16 pm
1.5.  C&J :o
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on May 03, 2013, 11:15:04 pm
Yeah....  8)
Title: Re: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Jaspersharpe on May 03, 2013, 11:22:38 pm
Cheers for the link   136-140kg  :whip:

I hear what you are saying about the training but as I don't really climb that seriously any more its not a problem   :shrug:

This is dynamite. "Thinnest man on planet dispels concerns about possibility of big legs". :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: ianv on May 04, 2013, 10:27:03 am
Quote
"Thinnest man on planet dispels concerns about possibility of big legs".

I think its a physical impossibility for me to develop big legs. Loads of riding, a fair bit of weights and they are still skinny as fuck  :(

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on May 08, 2013, 10:15:53 pm
Lifted 180kg tonight. Pretty psyched about that. 76kg bodyweight. Feeling strong on the rock too, burly.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on June 27, 2013, 04:31:46 pm
I have got the mrs into lifting heavy weights after it finally sunk in that pink dumbells and fitness classes do nowt to change your shape.
She has done a week now learning all the moves and likes her deadlifting and squatting.had her doing 40k.
I did some today,not done any heavy for a while now but did 180 OK so thought I'd go for a pb of 210 and failed ,well that's a target now for a month
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Big Dave on June 27, 2013, 05:10:00 pm
Unlucky, went for 210kg myself a month or so back and got bar to mid thigh but no lock out, close but no cigar! Had done 205kg the week before ok , amazing how much difference 5kg makes!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on June 27, 2013, 06:09:46 pm
Fucking beasts!
I didn't do any serious lifting as of late, but I try to go to the gym once every ten days or so, and I basically do one armers and the likes, but I've recently added some snatch high pulls in my routine and they are brutal on the upper body!!!
I found them here http://www.tnation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/high_pull_for_the_power_look (http://www.tnation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/high_pull_for_the_power_look)
Forget the silly title.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rich d on June 27, 2013, 07:28:51 pm
If I could do one armers nibs, I'd go to the gym and do them too!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on August 16, 2013, 06:41:39 pm
So, I haven't lifted metal in AGES!  Maybe more than a year. In the same time I've lost around 6kg (probably 50/50 muscle/fat at a guess).

I'm offshore this week and thought I might want to work on general BURLINESS sin preparation for getting totally chewed up and spat out on the big walls of Yosemite. Started off with some nice easy running and then did circuits incorporating of the following:

Deadlifts: 20 kg x 12 (2 sets) and 30kg x 12 (1 set)
Squats: 20kg x 10 (only ended up doing 2 sets of these)
Medecine ball vertical thow and catch situps.
Dumbell Lateral raises 10kg each side x 10
Dumbell bench press 20kg (iirc) x 12
Bicep Curls (to look buff in camp IV) 15kg x 10

Now, I didn't feel like I was going overly hard at any of these and I'm in pretty good shape just now. (climbing/biking 4 to 5 days a week) but man, I don't have DOMS, I AM DOMS. Shoulders, neck, abs, adductor longus (between hams and groin, from the sqauts), quads, biceps, traps. ALL got DOMS.  The adductors are the worst though - I'm walking like John Wayne....    :weakbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on August 17, 2013, 09:17:12 am
The DOMS are still killing. Could barely squeeze out a turd this morning due to painful abs!

Any tips for improving recovery from the DOMS? Any time I've had them before it usually goes away and then the second gym session doesn't cause too many issues. At this rate I'll not get back in the Gym before I hit the beach (as in demobilise, not Jersey beach).
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: krymson on August 17, 2013, 10:01:32 am
For weight lifters, the sore ache of DOMS is a welcome sign that exercise has been fruitful, muscles have been stimulated and will grow.
I'm sure you know this but it's particularly bad this time because you haven't lifted in a while. If you continue to work out the DOMS will progressively decrease very quickly.

That being said it's still good to minimize DOMS and recovery time. The best antidote is prevention - eating carbs and protein(people recommend something in the neighborhood of 4:1 carbs to protein) in the 30 minutes to an hour after working out is the best time window  -- your body will absorb the nutrients the best and it will improve recovery time and reduce DOMS.

Failing that i think you should just get as much good sleep and nutrition as possible. I dont think there are any shortcuts. Massage can help a bit.

Also while you are probably in too much pain today you should be able to climb(at least route climbing) tomorrow if the muscles aren't aching too bad. My experience is that while climbing uses strength, it generally doesnt stress the muscles the same as weight lifting does so there's no harm and thought it might be a bit achy at first once you get warmed up it's basically like normal.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on August 17, 2013, 10:55:45 am
Ain't no climbing walls on an oilrig!

Lack of Carbs/Protein after probably didn't help. No time to get to the gym before dinner, no food available after dinner. (except ice cream - I wonder if it hits the 4:1 ratio ;-)

Maybe I shoul;d try and get up early  :yawn: and go before breakfast next time. 5:20 alarm will be brutal though...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on August 17, 2013, 11:12:20 am
Nutrition is crucial... There's a window of approximetely 45/75 minutes after the workout, in which nutrients, especially carbs, are stored directly as glycogen in muscles, to become the first source of energy used in the next effort. After that, nutrients are stored "normally", not as muscle glycogen and can eventually become fat.
So, skipping the post session meal is very likey to kill your recovery. I'd do everything to avoid that. Maybe steal some food in the morning to be eaten after lifting?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on August 17, 2013, 12:03:48 pm
All the protein and carbs in the world aint gonna stop you aching after smashing a gym sesh when you've not done it for a while!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on August 17, 2013, 12:10:31 pm
All the protein and carbs in the world aint gonna stop you aching after smashing a gym sesh when you've not done it for a while!

True that!

I was quite surprised how much it hurts after quite light weights, next time I'll need to drop down to 10/15kg squats for my first session - I think I may have quite weak adductors. I might actually put some effort in this autumn got get my legs strong for the ski/winter season. am I correct in thinking I should keep the weights high and reps low (5 or less) if I don't want to gain too myuch bulk? I'm aboput 90% vegeterian these days (the lass is veggie) so I might need to start adding some lean meat/fish in to post session meals. Nom nom.

 I'm not so surprised by the abs - those medecine ball sit ups are quite taxing! 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on August 17, 2013, 12:15:22 pm

[/quote]

next time I'll need to drop down to 10/15kg squats for my first session - I think I may have quite weak adductors.
[/quote]

Negative, if the ache's gone, push on and up the weight, even by a little bit. Go big or go home. simples!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on August 17, 2013, 12:20:03 pm
Sorry, that was poorly worded. What I actually meant was:- the next time I've done f'all for months and decide to hit the gym, I'll need to drop the weights down.

Anyone else do the power snatch :- Coach Burgener On Power Snatch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h4r8tWGAKM#)

I remember them being recommended by some climbing/conditioning pseudo expert in an article a few years ago. He said they're both good for explosive all-body power AND great for targetting some of the scapula/rotator cuff muscles that get underused and weak due to climbing. They also feel great!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on August 17, 2013, 12:22:40 pm
All the protein and carbs in the world aint gonna stop you aching after smashing a gym sesh when you've not done it for a while!
Yes that's true. You'll ache nonetheless, but eating properly your muscles will recover properly, and you'll get stronger.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on August 17, 2013, 12:27:10 pm
I've done a few power snatches, but having good technique without some serious and direct coaching was very hard and I didn't feel safe to go heavy. Plus, they were very dangerous for my knees. When I lift now, I just do snatch pulls. From hanging the bar at mid thighs to pulling it at shoulders height.
They engage less the legs and this is good for me.
Lifting is very very fun.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: krymson on August 18, 2013, 01:40:46 pm
Yes I agree. Been trying Olly lifts recently but the movements aren't easy to learn.
I feel like it's not worth the effort without proper coaching, so sticking with standard lifts for now.

This week I did squats for the first time in a while which had an immediate and significant difference in body tension ability.

I did the squats Tuesday and a very physical undercling with distant feet at the bouldering gym  which was quite strenuous when i tried it  on Monday felt much easier today.

DOMS in the ass-al area for two days after the fact made it clear that glutes and hams (http://[url=http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBSquat.html) were recruited significantly, and in a different way than in deadlifts (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html), which im already strong at.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: pyrosis on September 02, 2013, 02:58:23 pm
120Kg x5 reps last night - felt like my back was going to explode but today it feels fine. Douglas, your DL is very strong so I am curious - how often do you train it? How many sets? And how often do you go for singles? I've been training the DL once per week, 5 warmup sets plus 1 heavy set of 5 - it keeps going up slowly but it's kind of a boring protocol to follow
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on September 02, 2013, 06:35:09 pm
I trained deadlifts on and off last winter doing 3 sessions a week initially, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, then dropped deadlifts on a Wednesday and did a dumbbell session instead because I was getting a tired back. To warm up I do 10 reps at 60 kg, then 5 reps at 80, 100, 120, 130 for a workout at 140kg for example. Working sets are 5 reps with 2 minutes rest, repeated for 5 sets. Our warm ups are similar but I do 5 working sets at my max weight then I up it by 2.5 or 5kg the next session. I train with straps to save my forearms for the fingerboard and I only use a belt when I'm going for a 1RM which is every 4 months or so but I'm obviously really careful about my form.

As well as the deadlifts I do bent over rows,  power cleans and hang cleans which add back strength. I also do pull ups, bench and overhead press to round things out.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: pyrosis on September 03, 2013, 04:08:38 pm
Thanks for the beta! That seems counter to what I have read on the DL - 5x5 is a lot of volume! The literature I have read suggests that this would be too much volume for the back but in this case I think that you have proved that, for you at least, the literature is incorrect. I'm not so sure my low back could handle 5x5 twice per week, but 1x5 once per week might be too little for optimal gains.. hmmm
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on September 03, 2013, 06:10:37 pm
I do a similar warmup and then aim for 2 days of 3sets of 5reps.  (FYI-I'm doing my max sets at about 315lbs, so 143kg).

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on September 03, 2013, 08:29:21 pm
I must have been reading the same documentation as you but I ignored it! I figured I never squat and as deadlifts are always my first lift and my other lifts do suffer, especially power cleans and rows but I'm not too worried, it's ok. I could never sustain that all year but this winter I'll get back into it and repeat the cycle. For me it's a very fine balance between getting the body power but minimising the increased mass because my fingers are not the strongest.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on September 03, 2013, 10:06:12 pm
im the opposite to you,i do squats so dont bother with deadlifts now and they now far off the same move.
deadlifts tired me out for the rest of my back routine and there are better back building exercises i want to do.

got the mrs doing them instead 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on September 08, 2013, 02:54:51 pm
saw a bloke at the gym deadlift 350 yesterday
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: krymson on September 08, 2013, 07:05:45 pm
must be bouldering 8C, according to this thread  :whistle:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: miso soup on October 04, 2013, 12:25:07 pm
442.5kg

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=422810431163429 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=422810431163429)

 :jaw:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on January 14, 2014, 09:59:16 pm
http://www.usawa.com/middle-fingers-deadlift-showdown/ (http://www.usawa.com/middle-fingers-deadlift-showdown/)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Paul B on January 14, 2014, 10:26:10 pm
got the mrs doing them instead

Shameless  :shag:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 15, 2014, 09:32:08 am
World Record Deadlift 1128 pounds- World's Strongest man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWUNjTHHIxY#ws)

Don't like this. The bar bends a hell of a lot with the outer weights still on the ground, so not lifting the full weight until part way through the lift. Why do they do it this way??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on January 15, 2014, 09:48:34 am
World Record Deadlift 1128 pounds- World's Strongest man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWUNjTHHIxY#ws)

Don't like this. The bar bends a hell of a lot with the outer weights still on the ground, so not lifting the full weight until part way through the lift. Why do they do it this way??

For show - why else use tyres rather than metal weights
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on January 15, 2014, 09:51:57 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift)

Seems like the tyre deadlift is a category of its own

Check out the number of muscles worked by a deadlift in one beautiful movement
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 15, 2014, 10:29:44 am
Can't wait to boulder 8c and climb 9a to finally dedicate my time to the weights.
I hate it when climbing gets in the way of getting strong.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 15, 2014, 11:32:01 am
Cheers shark.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on January 15, 2014, 01:08:32 pm
World Record Deadlift 1128 pounds- World's Strongest man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWUNjTHHIxY#ws)

Don't like this. The bar bends a hell of a lot with the outer weights still on the ground, so not lifting the full weight until part way through the lift. Why do they do it this way??

crikey, looks like he could have easily lifted more  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 15, 2014, 02:06:35 pm
Okay this helps:

Quote from: some squeaky nob on YT comments

I despise NEGATIVE FUCKS!

This guy just lifted over HALF A FUCKIN' TON and people are on here saying how it isn't a big deal because it's tires instead of iron. Until one of you naysayers can do what he did and PROVE it...SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO HIT THE GYM YOU JELLIE ASSES!
Well that's cleared up then :sorry:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 23, 2014, 09:10:03 pm
World Strongest Man 2013 Brian Shaw, 442,5kg deadlift for a new WR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TslFGt4lTkE#ws)

more impressive
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: miso soup on January 23, 2014, 10:50:06 pm
So why is that more impressive when it's less weight than the tyre guy?  Someone educate a deadlift noob.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Richie Crouch on January 23, 2014, 11:08:13 pm
Surely it's because all the weight has to move at once with a solid bar lift whereas it flexes a lot on the tyres lift and some tyres lift off the ground earlier... So he is already past getting it moving when all the weight leaves the deck?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on January 24, 2014, 12:47:36 am
Ritchie wins a cookie
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 24, 2014, 07:49:38 am
The second one also starts from lower, so the bar has to cover more space and breaking it from the ground is harder.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: miso soup on January 24, 2014, 05:30:08 pm
Got it, thanks wads.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 24, 2014, 06:10:56 pm
So why is that more impressive when it's less weight than the tyre guy?  Someone educate a deadlift noob.

you taking the piss?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: miso soup on January 24, 2014, 06:24:21 pm
No, just wasn't sure I was correctly understanding the differences between the tyres and the one we posted.  I asked and got an answer.  Now I do.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on January 25, 2014, 12:20:13 am
You'll have to excuse mark he's gotten too big for his climbing boots, quite literally. I hear reports he's not the man he used to be. Has to put on some cut off denims whenever he's feeling a little angry now
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 28, 2014, 12:44:09 pm
Haha cheeky twat.
i just thought it was pretty obvious as to why a proper deadlift was not as impressive as someone who was nearly vertical before the weight was lifted.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 28, 2014, 06:02:31 pm
Did a few today for the second week on trot.did a few reps 20 below my p.b.shall have a go at a new one next week.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on January 29, 2014, 11:44:30 am
you done 200 yet youth??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 29, 2014, 09:11:13 pm
thats my bestest.did 180 ok this week so shall try and beat it in a couple of weeks
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on January 29, 2014, 09:35:00 pm
When you did 200 mark how many reps at 180 could you do? 3?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 30, 2014, 08:51:52 pm
i cant remember how many i could do in a set.i do remember 180 feeling ok so stuck 1/2 a plate a side on and it felt a lot heavy but did it.i used straps on wrists and a belt
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 05, 2014, 07:31:15 am
I can't believe you were once a climber and now are admitting to using wrist traps for deadlifting.  :chair:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 05, 2014, 10:20:23 am
guilty as charged.
i did intend to climb last weekend but was too cold for a potter around.off work today and tomorrow but its raining in leek now,so once the little un has gone to my mums im off to the gym hehe

once the weather gets better i will climb again.until then gym rules the roost.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on February 05, 2014, 09:07:25 pm
Straps make sense as a climber deadlifting...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Stubbs on February 05, 2014, 09:24:25 pm
How come?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 05, 2014, 10:26:13 pm
Because very few climbers won't be able to lift 200kg with their hands
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Stubbs on February 05, 2014, 10:35:18 pm
I'm pretty sure I could point you at a lot of climbers who would struggle to lift 200 kg with their hangs. For the average 60 kg midget would that not require similar grip to hanging off a bar with 140 kg of added weight?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on February 05, 2014, 10:59:34 pm
Average 60kg midgets don't deadlift 200. Deadlifts tire the grip is a way that is not applicable to climbing strength. Therefore it is better to lift with straps and train fingers on a fingerboard. A lot of people on here say don't use straps, but do they even lift. Probably not.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on February 05, 2014, 11:32:34 pm
I don't use straps
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 06, 2014, 12:09:12 am
Neither do i
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 06, 2014, 07:47:05 am
I use them at the heavier end of what i can lift .my grip will go before my back and its my back i want to feel the weight.theres plenty other lifts if do and only deadlifts with straps.my grip hasn't suffered as at work when we are bored we squeeze the scales and i easily beat the other lads.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 06, 2014, 07:53:41 am
Don't worry shaz I don't lift 200kg.

I said neither do I cos I wanted to be as random as falling down
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 06, 2014, 08:52:31 am
haha,bet you could if you tried for a bit,you and ben arnt the usual shape you see climbing.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on February 06, 2014, 08:54:06 am
Certainly not at the moment at any rate.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 06, 2014, 09:24:33 am
I don't know about you FD but I'm taking shaz's remarks as a compliment  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Paul B on February 06, 2014, 11:47:33 am
I don't use straps

Neither do i

but then again I certainly am nowhere near 200kg, that'd be over 3 times my bodyweight!
I use them at the heavier end of what i can lift .my grip will go before my back and its my back i want to feel the weight.theres plenty other lifts if do and only deadlifts with straps.my grip hasn't suffered as at work when we are bored we squeeze the scales and i easily beat the other lads.

Brilliant. The yellow pages dropped off a stack of books for the flat blocks where I live and it made me remember the phonebook tearing incident/thread. I also spent a good few minutes trying to tear one whilst waiting for the lift (yes, lift). Obviously I failed, and they're not even full thickness anymore!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Stubbs on February 06, 2014, 12:00:31 pm
Yeah I bet you're shit at climbing though Paul, if you can't deadlift 200kg or tear a phone book!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 06, 2014, 01:23:14 pm
Who mentioned climbing?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Stubbs on February 06, 2014, 01:32:08 pm
I did, just then.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on February 06, 2014, 02:12:44 pm
I don't know about you FD but I'm taking shaz's remarks as a compliment  ;)

Damn right..   :weakbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: SA Chris on February 06, 2014, 03:00:32 pm
when we are bored we squeeze the scales

Those long winter days must just flit by.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 06, 2014, 04:30:14 pm
it can get competitive lol
we have got to do a fitness test at work now and some had it done on tuesday.it reads body fat % muscle % muscle in each quarter of body etc etc .you get a print out of it at the end
didnt get time to do mine yet but lots of comparing was going on.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on February 11, 2014, 09:08:58 pm
One of my aims for 2014 is to lift 150kg, but not wanting to go to a gym has meant purchasing an Olympic set, since my current spinlock set can't take the load and flexes really badly at anything over 100kg. Don't really want to mess myself (or the property) up with the bar snapping.

Did much web based research and couldn't find 150kg of weight at a price I could afford, so started messaging the bigger eBay sellers and some of the big internet shops to see if they could do me a deal, since the only deals I could find had 7' bars and I needed a 5' bar.

Anyhoo,  long story short,  received my new weights yesterday and am well psyched to at least try for a new pb soon.

The weights I got are really basic cast iron discs, some aren't even painted but have grate blackening on them. They are perfect for what I need though. They worked out way cheaper than from anywhere else and were prepared to do for free. If anyone else on here is after obtaining a cheap set of Olympic weights you should try emailing musclefinesse, they are easy enough to be found online.

:strongbench:



Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 11, 2014, 09:20:25 pm
Beast
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on February 11, 2014, 09:48:44 pm
That was meant to say free delivery, was too late to edit my post.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Richie Crouch on February 12, 2014, 07:31:57 am
Thanks rodma. I had been looking at purchasing an Olympic bar and a decent number of plates quite recently but was put off by the prices (and delivery costs) involved. It will be great for when we hopefully move into a bigger place with a garage/utility room :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 12, 2014, 08:10:04 am
Coupled with the fact that you won't need many plates it'll be even cheaper for you Richie
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on February 12, 2014, 12:53:55 pm
I also tried contacting folk that were selling second hand plates on gumtree, but they wanted £180 for 140kg of discs and £70 for a secondhand 7' bar, reeeeediculous.

Had my first session with the new weights last night and it definitely looks marginally more manly lifting giant discs, at least that's what i told myself as i posed in front of the mirror  ;)

I think I actually get to tick "deadlift 150kg" as complete in my aims for 2014, being as someone has managed to tick "go to font over easter" and i'd expect both of those to be mere formalities  ;D
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: SA Chris on February 12, 2014, 05:51:41 pm
was put off by the prices

Just nip down to Porth Ysgo and pick up a few bits of ironmongery to take home?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on February 12, 2014, 06:45:32 pm
Why not just go to the gym?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 12, 2014, 08:07:24 pm
Cos he doesn't want to?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on February 12, 2014, 08:14:10 pm
Cos he doesn't want to?

If "he" is me then fiend is spot on :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: douglas on February 12, 2014, 08:22:36 pm
Cos he doesn't want to?

If "he" is me then fiend is spot on :)
Okay, fair play
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 12, 2014, 08:34:34 pm
If you're the person that said "I don't want to go to the gym" then it's probably you, aye...

I got a tweaked wrist, I CAN'T EVEN LIFT :(
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on February 12, 2014, 10:12:20 pm
If you're the person that said "I don't want to go to the gym" then it's probably you, aye...

I got a tweaked wrist, I CAN'T EVEN LIFT :(

Hehe I didn't even notice I wrote that.

Bugger on the wrist front,  would straps help or just make for a potentially worse situation?

The old Edinburgh uni gym used to have a machine that isolated the lats in a pecdec style;  you slid your arms up between two pads  that then rested on the outside of your elbow/upper arm and then performed a kind of pseudo lat pull down. Not sure if anywhere has anything like that anymore. It would be good if you could find a way if still hitting the big muscles. Hope you recover soon.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 13, 2014, 09:26:59 pm
is it a nautilus pull-over?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on February 14, 2014, 07:36:16 am
Yes it probably was,  that gym used to have one of every imaginable piece of equipment.  I'd expect it to have been modernised and less impressive now.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: BS on February 17, 2014, 11:19:18 am
Been dead lifting  quite a bit usually after a board session / before a rest day - has anyone had any success doing these before a session on a board or in the morning before an evening session?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 17, 2014, 11:36:49 am
Was going to the Edinburgh Uni gym a couple of years ago. I can't remember any specific machines as I was more focused on trying CV stuff, but it was fucking VAST.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on February 17, 2014, 01:04:43 pm
Been dead lifting  quite a bit usually after a board session / before a rest day - has anyone had any success doing these before a session on a board or in the morning before an evening session?

I used to lift prior to a wall session which resulted in feeling superhumanly strong for about 5mins and then having to stop.

I doubt i could ever lift after climbing, since my grip has been worked too much.

I'm sure a lighter weights session could be incorporated into the same day, the same way some people are able to fingerboard the same day/session, bu I've never had any sussess doing this.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatneck on October 13, 2014, 04:22:23 pm
My new office has a gym. Just had my induction and did some deadlifting...

I now feel like this..

(http://148bcec7bb334341cd98-2fb779bd12ec72d4612275342f2c9187.r31.cf1.rackcdn.com/9f2178a3de3a72a04be357b4b9178865.jpg)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on October 13, 2014, 04:36:09 pm
Please PLEASE tell me that is available on a t-shirt or a vest  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on October 13, 2014, 04:37:08 pm
You feel hairy?

Pleased at being able to pick up weights without having opposable thumbs?

Annoyed with your dentist?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on October 13, 2014, 04:39:54 pm
Please PLEASE tell me that is available on a t-shirt or a vest  :strongbench:

http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/vp/ns/easypath/uploadpicture.aspx?ref=2&page=1&template=62643~s1_372&click=0&back_url=http%253a%252f%252fwww.vistaprint.co.uk%252fgallery.aspx%253fpg%253d191%2526amp%253bpreid%253d296%2526amp%253bxnav%253dMensTshirts_TsrButton&epupstep=3&combo1=15544.120.1.483397%7c483397%7c137%7c0%7c%7c-1%7c%7c%7cs1&combo2=15539.120.1.%7c%7c794%7c0%7c%7c-1%7c%7c%7cs1&uei=94036&ag=true&resetcrop=true&uploadedImageID=924438282&uid=924438282 (http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/vp/ns/easypath/uploadpicture.aspx?ref=2&page=1&template=62643~s1_372&click=0&back_url=http%253a%252f%252fwww.vistaprint.co.uk%252fgallery.aspx%253fpg%253d191%2526amp%253bpreid%253d296%2526amp%253bxnav%253dMensTshirts_TsrButton&epupstep=3&combo1=15544.120.1.483397%7c483397%7c137%7c0%7c%7c-1%7c%7c%7cs1&combo2=15539.120.1.%7c%7c794%7c0%7c%7c-1%7c%7c%7cs1&uei=94036&ag=true&resetcrop=true&uploadedImageID=924438282&uid=924438282)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on October 14, 2014, 01:47:03 pm
I took advantage of the offer of a free session with a personal trainer at the gym the other day. I'd never done any deadlifts before, but was recommended them by the PT on the grounds that they would help my poor (but improving!) hip mobility, and be good for my core and posture, which should help with/counteract climbing.

... and then I stumbled across this thread, which seems to confirm all of that and some! As a total lifting n00b, I have some questions about progression. I'm 6' tall and weigh 76kg, not much of which is fat, if that helps inform anything. In the first session I did 3x8 lifts with 45kg, and had someone continually assessing and correcting my form. I was feeling slightly tired by the end of the last set, but definitely felt like I could lift more, maybe a lot more. However, next day I was BROKEN, with horrendous DOMS, particularly around my inner thighs (gracilis?) and lower back. I went back for another session after about a week and did 3x8 at 60kg, which felt a lot steadier and I didn't hurt anywhere near so badly afterwards.

So, if I aim for another lot 3x8, but maybe bump the weight to 70kg next time, would that seem like a good plan? And just keep progressing that way until the gains come slower? Or are the numbers all wrong? Teach me, oh wise beasts...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatneck on October 14, 2014, 02:58:31 pm
Haven't really got much to offer in terms of advice as I'm also noob...

However, I'd aim stretch yourself a bit more, make like a bear and enjoy the DOMS :)

My first day on the DLs looked like this...

1x5 @ 40kg (looking at form etc)
1x5 @ 60kg
1x3 @ 80kg (just short of body weight)

Then reverse pyramided down.

Second session looked like this...

1x5 @ 40kg
1x5 @ 60kg
1x5 @ 80kg
1x5 @ 100kg
1x3 @ 120kg

Then back down - properly broken now like  :boxing:

Pretty pleased to have lifted 1.4x body weight in my second session. Only problem now is the work gym doesn't have any more 10kg discs and I'm not sure how many 5kg discs I can fit on the bar!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on October 14, 2014, 06:10:24 pm
Just bought myself some weights because I don't really have the time to get to a gym on a regular basis as well as the costs being quite ridiculous.

I have 30kg already from some dumbells I own and I have just ordered 90kg in the shape of 2x25kg and 2x20kg.

That should give me about 130kg when you include the weight of the bar.

I'm about 6'2" and weight roughly 85kg so I will need to buy some more weights before I can do 2x bodyweight but I fear my lack of weights isn't going to be whats holding me back.

I was planning to do the following in a week.

Climb at the wall twice
1 fingerboard session
1 or 2 weights sessions.

What exercises would people recommend I do weights wise to start with? I wan't to strengthen my core and back mainly.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on October 15, 2014, 07:40:24 am
I hope you have an Olympic bar and not a spinlock, since the latter is only rated to about 130kg.

Deadlift, bent over row, good mornings, clean and press.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on October 15, 2014, 10:13:01 am
No I had not!

I didn't realise that standard bars only went up to such a low weight. It doesn't seem like most places advertise that fact.

Thanks for that, I have just cancelled the order before it shipped and ordered some olympic weights.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on November 04, 2014, 10:42:50 am
did some deadlifting for the first time in 6 months yesterday as its not something i do alot of. i started my back routine off with it and feck me i can feel it today.shall try and keep it up and aim for a p.b in 6 or 8 weeks
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on December 16, 2014, 09:49:26 pm
matched my best of 200 today,did a set of 8 at 180 before that lift so next week as long as i get plenty of food in me should have a new p.b.
my mate is going for a 180 bench press on thursday.he has done it before but he was near 16 stone then.he is less than 14 now.he does have arms like most mens legs though
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on December 17, 2014, 07:17:59 pm
Solid gold advice for you my friend, from Charles Staley.
http://www.t-nation.com/training/how-to-murder-the-deadlift (http://www.t-nation.com/training/how-to-murder-the-deadlift)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatneck on December 19, 2014, 09:59:21 am
Solid effort Mr Sharratt...  :bow:

I managed a new PB of 130kg yesterday but feel I can definitely lift more. Problem is I'm out of weights I can add.

Going to probably purchase some but in the mean time should I;

a) Keep working with the weight I've got to the point where it feels easy
b) Concentrate on Clean and Jerk (on which I can just about manage 40kg)
c) Other?
d) All...

Cheers
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatneck on December 19, 2014, 10:15:52 am
Having done a bit of research I imagine by "Other" above I mean stuff like;

Deficit Pulls
Block Pulls
Sumo Pulls
Speed Pulls
Snatch Grip Pulls

Etc

Can anyone recommend/advise?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on December 19, 2014, 11:48:18 am
Deficit and snatch high pulls.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatneck on December 19, 2014, 12:14:43 pm
Thanks Lore...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on December 22, 2014, 01:53:23 pm
keep at it,as long as you are pushing yourself you will get stronger


i wasnt feeling full of energy today as didnt eat much yesterday.
did a few 140 then went for 210 and did it fine, a new p.b

so went for 220,got half way and didnt want to risk it as it was hurting a bit.
chuffed with new pb though
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on December 22, 2014, 09:59:05 pm
I keep toying with the idea of doing some deadlifts but I already weigh in at very close to 14 stone. I don't have much fat about me and I worry that putting on any extra weight will end up being a negative on my climbing.

Any thoughts? Any way to get stronger without putting on the weight?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on December 22, 2014, 10:43:56 pm
My general view on deadlifting for climbing: :lol:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on December 22, 2014, 10:44:24 pm
Control caloric intake, lift heavy (aim for being maxed out at the 3-6rep range) and you won't get heavier. 

On the flip side, do you struggle to keep your feet on and maintain core tension?  If so, then deadlifting is good.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on December 23, 2014, 08:36:50 am
I keep toying with the idea of doing some deadlifts but I already weigh in at very close to 14 stone. I don't have much fat about me and I worry that putting on any extra weight will end up being a negative on my climbing.

Any thoughts? Any way to get stronger without putting on the weight?

you wont put any weight on,unless yuo start eating like a bodybuilder/weightlifter and going to the gym lots.

you will get stronger but as above said,i dont know how it will improve climbing.heavy deadlifting leaves you pretty useless the next day.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on December 23, 2014, 09:55:05 am
I don't think my core is particularly weak but it could certainly be stronger. I'm 6'2" and I can nearly do a front lever which I know is a fair irrelevant exercise in the grand scheme of climbing but its shows a decent level of core strength. My biggest issue is that the guy that sets a lot of the problems at the wall I climb at hates tall people and loves to put stupid cramped compression moves on overhangs and I can't get my damn body in there.

I basically want to make my core and back stronger which I assume some lifts will accomplish better than almost anything else.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on December 23, 2014, 10:54:33 am
I don't think my core is particularly weak but it could certainly be stronger. I'm 6'2" and I can nearly do a front lever which I know is a fair irrelevant exercise in the grand scheme of climbing but its shows a decent level of core strength. My biggest issue is that the guy that sets a lot of the problems at the wall I climb at hates tall people and loves to put stupid cramped compression moves on overhangs and I can't get my damn body in there.

I basically want to make my core and back stronger which I assume some lifts will accomplish better than almost anything else.
Maybe up there in UK things are different, but in gyms here I've always found that if set problems are there to test yourself, climb, have fun, etc.
But to really get some training done, I always needed to set my own problems.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on December 23, 2014, 11:31:39 am
I don't think my core is particularly weak but it could certainly be stronger. I'm 6'2" and I can nearly do a front lever which I know is a fair irrelevant exercise in the grand scheme of climbing but its shows a decent level of core strength. My biggest issue is that the guy that sets a lot of the problems at the wall I climb at hates tall people and loves to put stupid cramped compression moves on overhangs and I can't get my damn body in there.

I basically want to make my core and back stronger which I assume some lifts will accomplish better than almost anything else.

i would just tell him sort his shit problems out and not to take it out on normal sized people just because he is inferior.
problems set for pixies are never going to be nice for everyone else
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: lagerstarfish on December 23, 2014, 11:33:29 am
a strong core is essential for lanking past stumpy sequences
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on December 23, 2014, 11:42:59 am
I don't think my core is particularly weak but it could certainly be stronger. I'm 6'2" and I can nearly do a front lever which I know is a fair irrelevant exercise in the grand scheme of climbing but its shows a decent level of core strength. My biggest issue is that the guy that sets a lot of the problems at the wall I climb at hates tall people and loves to put stupid cramped compression moves on overhangs and I can't get my damn body in there.

I basically want to make my core and back stronger which I assume some lifts will accomplish better than almost anything else.

i would just tell him sort his shit problems out and not to take it out on normal sized people just because he is inferior.
problems set for pixies are never going to be nice for everyone else

Yup. I think he should grow up.

;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on December 23, 2014, 12:27:53 pm
To be fair, he does set some good stuff, he just has a flair for the compact. The sort of move you can't really strength or lank your way through because the holds are so wank. I could just be whinging because I am not strong enough to do them but when other people explain how they get up them its exactly how I assumed but I can't do it. I've got a really sore shoulder today from trying to squeeze into a space I wasn't meant to exist it.

I'm just tall and bitter from hearing too many short 60kg climbers whinge about how hard it is for them when they can't reach a hold and how easy it is when you are tall.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: slackline on December 23, 2014, 12:33:29 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/8qtW9VD.jpg)

(http://betamonkeys.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/tall.png)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on December 23, 2014, 01:41:08 pm
My general view on deadlifting for climbing: :lol:

Not to agree with Alex too much (maybe the time we spent in the DJ booth at the works party at around 5am have created a special bond?) BUT:

In my experience over the last year or so, deadlifting really is of limited use to climbing past a certain level. Having had the pleasure of having some coaching in them, and training them for a while with people like Mawson, Ned, Sam W etc. all of us had a really good basic strength level at deadlifting, smashing in plenty past 2 X bodyweight!

I reckon 2 X bodyweight is a great target but past that don't bother, you're time is much better spent on the core muscles in the mid section and hips (can you do a front lever? If not then time on that sort of core exercise is much better spent!)

Hope this makes sense!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on December 23, 2014, 01:50:49 pm
I can't do a front level but I thought they got much harder to do the taller you are. When I try them I find that i get almost a cramp on the right hand side of my lats about the height of my lower ribs. I also have reasonably meaty legs from years playing hockey so my lower half is heavier than it could be which also makes front levers harder.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Gus on December 23, 2014, 02:12:45 pm
Sounds like a lot of good reasons to get better at them and other leg lifting core exercises rather than working your meaty leg strengths with deadlifts then!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on December 23, 2014, 05:47:05 pm
I reckon 2 X bodyweight is a great target but past that don't bother, you're time is much better spent on the core muscles in the mid section and hips (can you do a front lever? If not then time on that sort of core exercise is much better spent!)
:agree:

a strong core is essential for lanking past stumpy sequences
:2thumbsup: This applies even to shorties......

Check out Dragon Flags and continue working levers.  Oh, and don't forget about destroying your obliques.  They seem to be a real weakness for many climbers, but are essential to low lockoffs.


Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on February 27, 2015, 04:41:37 pm
I've been thinking about joining a weights gym for a while now. I don't think it will help my climbing particularly, it's more because of the importance of general strength training for the older gent - have been reading some of Mark Rippetoe's columns about this. Also because I think a double bodyweight deadlift would be a cool feat.

I haven't done it so far because of cost, and concern about the time I spend on it detracting from climbing. But now I've found a local sports club that is a lot cheaper than a glitzy gym, and the coach is a former weightlifting world champion and olympic silver medallist. Should be cool. Am going to hold off until the Autumn - because of not interfering with climbing in the meantime - but then give it a bash.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 27, 2015, 04:55:29 pm
I'm really loving the fact my local boulder gym has a weights room attached. Today I was doing some very lightly weight Good Mornings (to strengthen my recovering back) and some overhead squats (with just a non-olympic weights bar) for from and hamstring/glute flexibility.

Did 120kg on the leg press machine which felt easy (a surprise). I'm guessing I could do another 30kg quite easily but I didn't want to push it (2 x BW).

Bouldered like shit though...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on February 27, 2015, 05:00:28 pm
If you read any training stuff from the US they quite often talk about adding weights to your sessions. It sounds like its much more common to have a weights area over there than it is in the UK. I don't think I have ever been to a wall that has proper weights.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on February 27, 2015, 05:18:43 pm
we have a weights area at our local wall.

I'd say it's about 50/50 on the gyms I've been to in the US. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 27, 2015, 05:25:46 pm
Went into Irish Si's local gym in San Fran, after staring at the weights facility for some time I looked around the Massive lead climbing area then the bouldering areas. Then we topped it off with a sauna in the changing rooms. A fucking sauna!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on February 27, 2015, 05:36:06 pm
If we had facilities like that in the UK I would never leave. It would be a day activity rather than a few hours.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on February 27, 2015, 05:41:16 pm
Walls in Germany are like the ones in the UK - a few 5kg plates for weighted pullups, at most. As I said, the cost of another membership is  major reason why I've been holding off. But I feel rather limited in what I can achieve at home with a couple of kettlebells.

The last time I had access to a wall with attached gym was when I used to go to the Salford Uni wall. I think you weren't supposed to, the non-student's entrance fee only covered the climbing wall, but I used to "enjoy" blasting out a couple of kilometres post-climbing on the ergometer that was right outside the door.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 27, 2015, 05:54:39 pm
I've got full weights in my climbing gym😄.

They are under utilised.

Those that use them, are rapidly rising up through the local scene though.

They're not top quality, but they are heavy...

Toying with the idea of putting in a bench (unfortunately, this has insurance implications and would need "induction courses" and modification of staff qualifications etc etc).

Unsurprisingly, the more people are seen to use them, the more people decide to use them...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on February 27, 2015, 05:59:21 pm
Those that use them, are rapidly rising up through the local scene though.

Do you mean that the guys using them are getting strong quickly using them?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatdoc on February 27, 2015, 06:02:34 pm
Loving the general  strength inprovements of a few free weights in my garage.

Overall very useful for body conditioning. Just like running, swimming... Whatever floats your boat. Can then train in a more balanced way, this improves my health and climbing.

It's all about balance, and thus not getting fucked up for and by the the main event... My board.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on February 27, 2015, 06:31:44 pm
Am I the only one who thinks that weights, deadlifting, one legged squats, Bulgarian hokey-kokey-whatevers and the like are tinkering around the edges, and that 95% of climbers should worry more about getting the core of their climbing/training right and less about the tinkering?  :shrug:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 27, 2015, 06:35:49 pm

Those that use them, are rapidly rising up through the local scene though.

Do you mean that the guys using them are getting strong quickly using them?

Yes.
They are also showing rapid grade progression outdoors.

They train together and improve together.

Great to watch.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 27, 2015, 06:44:31 pm

Am I the only one who thinks that weights, deadlifting, one legged squats, Bulgarian hokey-kokey-whatevers and the like are tinkering around the edges, and that 95% of climbers should worry more about getting the core of their climbing/training right and less about the tinkering?  :shrug:

That's a tough one.

It's not as if you can't climb, is it Alex, so it's not easy to argue against your position or the results of your training.

On the other hand, having plonked this training facility into a area where nothing similar existed and watching these youngsters blossom so rapidly.
I'd have to lean towards, anecdotally at least, suggesting it has merit.

Weights are of course only a part of it. Steep boards etc are the main tool.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on February 27, 2015, 06:58:34 pm
Am I the only one who thinks that weights, deadlifting, one legged squats, Bulgarian hokey-kokey-whatevers and the like are tinkering around the edges, and that 95% of climbers should worry more about getting the core of their climbing/training right and less about the tinkering?  :shrug:

Its not quite that simple is it. Not all of us have the luxury of going to the climbing wall as much as we would want. Failing that, there is plenty of reason to think that the best way to improve muscular strength is not simply climbing. A lot of coaches now use weights in their training of elite level athletes. We use a fingerboard to directly target our fingers so using weights to target larger muscles is quite obvious.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 27, 2015, 07:16:31 pm
Am I the only one who thinks that weights, deadlifting, one legged squats, Bulgarian hokey-kokey-whatevers and the like are tinkering around the edges, and that 95% of climbers should worry more about getting the core of their climbing/training right and less about the tinkering?  :shrug:

Alex, for those who purely want to get better at climbing I would say you're probably correct - most of the focus should be on climbing, with other climbing specific stuff thrown in (fingerboard, maybe some weights tagged onto the end of sessions). There are loads of overly-strong crap climbers around. People get focussed on these things and forget the basics. Climb climb climb.

However, quite a lot of the folks on here are getting on a bit and (at the ripe old age of 31 going on 32) I, like some of the others, are finding that "just climbing" isn't keeping the rest of the body in good shape for what we want to do. We get injured, we lose structural muscle, we get imbalances. For us, some supplementary weights at the end of a boulder session make a big difference. Also, some of us (certainly me) do a lot of other things than just climbing so having a strong body really help - this forum (while being ostensibly a "bouldering" forum) always has a lot of useful info on getting stronger without getting bugger.

Also - the Pooch and Malc Smith both love deadlifts. Nuff said.  :strongbench:

P.S. You'd probably have climbed 9a+ by now if you deadlifted  :jab:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatdoc on February 27, 2015, 07:18:10 pm
Again, with a large dose of anecdote... And 30 years plus of climbing training injuries if I had my time again I'd stear a middle ground path, and actually get overall rather fit, but of course with a focus on the climbing specific core skill set as described above.

In many more researched sports e.g running and all forms of cycling base weights and improved lactate threshold are considered no brainers.

It's certainly not all about the board. Well, it can be... And after a decade the muscle imbalance, poor flexibility, poor lactate threshold all swirl up into some perverse monster that will slap the shit out of your late 20s body and fuck up progression in your chosen sport and thus you reach the plateau of all plateaus.... Eventually getting disenchanted with the whole damn thing and give up completely... Only to spend 1000s on bikes, 1000s of hours in the NHS bleeding and fractured, to then see the light and re enter the world of bouldering some years later.... Again.. Anecdotal ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on February 27, 2015, 07:36:51 pm
The pooch has never done a deadlift in her life! She may have posed for pictures but that's it. I went to the gym with her for the best part of 2 yrs and all she did was 20 mins on the bike, 10 mins running, and every few wks a few one-armers in front of the guys. No weights, nada.
Alex you're a student, ie you eat less than Paul B, you have time to train or go outside 3 times a day, you drive a shit car, you haven't (or can't have) a woman. In short you can do whatever you want. Others have more commitments thus end up looking good as an aside cos they have to wait for wife, girlfriend, whatever, to finish yoga or Pilates or other such shit so they lift weights and flex in the sauna. When wife's not looking
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on February 27, 2015, 07:45:28 pm
It's not about climbing for me Alex. I'm 53; I don't want to spend the last five years of my life barely able to move because of osteoporosis like my dad did, and I'm not convinced climbing on its own will be enough to save me.

If deadlifting for skeletal health has the side effect of turning me into Malc that would be nice, but it's not the object of the exercise.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 27, 2015, 07:47:17 pm
The pooch has never done a deadlift in her life! She may have posed for pictures but that's it. I went to the gym with her for the best part of 2 yrs and all she did was 20 mins on the bike, 10 mins running, and every few wks a few one-armers in front of the guys. No weights, nada.


Damn, I've been conned  :-[  I must have seen some other strong lass doing weights on a video and got them mixed up.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Whyatt on February 27, 2015, 07:57:49 pm
If you wanna deadlift do it! If your in Sheffield there is a place of London rd called iron athlete £3 entry no sign up membership and it's a top set up
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatdoc on February 27, 2015, 08:20:09 pm
Sounds interesting....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 27, 2015, 08:29:26 pm
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/a87ae2c5145ccaadb4a21ec16599c936.jpg)

The irony of following this thread, between sets...

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Paul B on February 27, 2015, 08:43:06 pm
On the other hand, having plonked this training facility into a area where nothing similar existed and watching these youngsters blossom so rapidly.
I'd have to lean towards, anecdotally at least, suggesting it has merit.

Weights are of course only a part of it. Steep boards etc are the main tool.

They're 'blossoming' because they're getting rapid strength gains from the weights, and that's having some crossover into climbing. I'm with Alex in thinking it isn't the most efficient way of getting applicable gains.

I found weights and supplemental tinkering great fun and at various points due to injury, general lack of psych, or psych towards other things, weights have been fantastic; as a lightweight, deadlifts allow you to pick up what seems to be a large amount, I enjoyed that.

People will no doubt scoff at this, but I'm heavier than I used to be, with more mass (ha!) on the shoulders. This is down to weights and will make it harder to pull on small crimps, of that I'm sure.

If you have access to a decent steep board I think the time could be spent doing better things, walk-downs etc.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 27, 2015, 09:21:16 pm
I think here though it's the combination that's paying off.

Everything in moderation, nothing to extreme.

Too shaky to type properly...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 27, 2015, 09:36:15 pm
I'd love to know what the  "JUST TRAIN CLIMBING AND NOTHING ELSE EVER" camp do when their skin is fucked or their forearms are trashed from previous days training or when they're injured or getting too imbalanced from pure climbing training and thus prone to injury......
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: erm, sam on February 27, 2015, 09:42:16 pm
Extensive amounts of self pleasuring.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on February 27, 2015, 10:12:27 pm

Extensive amounts of self pleasuring.

That's why my hands are shaky :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 27, 2015, 10:45:40 pm
Board training has been around for quite some time now.

It's proven tech, with impressive results.

But, if climbing is the only training for climbing, then where is the next step coming from?

And Fiend is right, even if you have the opportunity to climb all day everyday, your body wouldn't let you.

You'd be a mass of over use injuries, tendonitis and shagged joints.

So deadlifting is probably not the be all and end all of training, but using free weights to address imbalance and to provide an element within a larger strength development programme; should help to prevent injury.

Developing thighs like a T-Rex on 'roids, will be detrimental to your climbing.
But using deadlifts and squats to condition and strengthen your posterior chain (ie, moderate weights and moderate reps), should make injury on the board/climbing less likely and have positive, tangible performance carry over.

And, the ever present danger of slipping and "pinging off" the board during training, makes it a relatively risky activity.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on February 27, 2015, 10:57:44 pm
Relative levels of baseline strength I'd want.

Finger - Infinite
Pull Strength - infinite

Deadlift - 3x2xBW
Squat - 5x1.5BW
Bench Press - 5x1.25xBW
Dips - 5xBW+25%
Pullups - 5xBW+25%
Dragon Flags - 3
Run - 1 mile in 7min
Stairs - 6 flights up and down carrying 100+lbs.

I'm currently pushing my finger and pull strength training as hard as I possibly can, and walking the line for injury.  As much as possible given my time and fingers, I'm climbing what I can.  In the small amount of extra time, I aim to keep the other things up.  At this stage for me, they don't take very much time/effort to keep up.  I think my bench may be low, but it's also probably my lowest priority. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on February 27, 2015, 10:59:42 pm
A lot of coaches now use weights in their training of elite level athletes. We use a fingerboard to directly target our fingers so using weights to target larger muscles is quite obvious.

Elite level athletes are very different to the masses - they have the core of their training/climbing sussed, and for them it's all about the tinkering.. I think I expressed my initial post badly. I'm not dead set against weights etc, I just think that numerous people get very sucked into tinkering with supplemental stuff and that this distracts them from making sure that the core of what they're doing is right, to the overall detriment that their climbing. It's not like I'm actually sure that my view is right either - there's a genuine question in there. I find it interesting that so many people on here love deadlifts.

Fair enough to all those who like this stuff for general health etc, though I'm not sure what lactate threshold has got to do with it fatdoc? There are better ways to sort out local lactate threshold than weights. Foot on campusing with a metronome is a particularly thrilling one ;)


I'd love to know what the  "JUST TRAIN CLIMBING AND NOTHING ELSE EVER" camp do when their skin is fucked or their forearms are trashed from previous days training or when they're injured or getting too imbalanced from pure climbing training and thus prone to injury......
When I'm injured I train around the injury. I've used weights in the past when I've had finger injuries. However, if my forearms are tired from training then picking up a 150kg weight seems like a shit idea for ensuring optimum recovery for the next day. I'm fairly convinced that generally one good bouldering/hangs session is worth a lot more than one weights session and one bouldering/hangs session with that extra fatigue. If a wieghts session in active rest for you then are you Jakob Schubert?

But, if climbing is the only training for climbing, then where is the next step coming from?
More relevant exercises than deadlifiting?

Extensive amounts of self pleasuring.
If your forearms are fresh enough for that then you didn't train hard enough.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on February 27, 2015, 11:05:12 pm
or just do your weights after a training session.  Since it's post session, it doesn't impact your climbing training, and as long as you structure your progression correctly, it shouldn't F-up your recovery. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on February 27, 2015, 11:08:29 pm
Squat - 5x1.5BW
Bench Press - 5x1.25xBW

Stairs - 6 flights up and down carrying 100+lbs.
I'm still unconvinced that these are in any way relevant to climbing. Running up and down stairs with 30kgs on? To get better at rock climbing? All that's gonna do is make me stress fracture my leg again!


The point you make about time is a key one. If I were a full-timer (despite what dense thinks, I do actually have to work sometimes) I would tinker with more of this shit. But still not running up stairs with weights, or much benching, or squats.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: lovethejugs on February 27, 2015, 11:14:11 pm
If you wont to get strong for climbing do a rope and wheel work out its the nuts :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on February 27, 2015, 11:15:35 pm
Squat - 5x1.5BW
Bench Press - 5x1.25xBW

Stairs - 6 flights up and down carrying 100+lbs.
I'm still unconvinced that these are in any way relevant to climbing. Running up and down stairs with 30kgs on? To get better at rock climbing? All that's gonna do is make me stress fracture my leg again!


The point you make about time is a key one. If I were a full-timer (despite what dense thinks, I do actually have to work sometimes) I would tinker with more of this shit. But still not running up stairs with weights, or much benching, or squats.

100% agree that these are no relevent to most people climbing. 

I have a special needs daughter who weighs about 100lbs, and I have to be able to carry her.  Hence the 100lbs on the stairs.  Same basic idea with squats and bench.  These aren't specific to climbing, and I spend about 6-8 weights session per year to maintain this.  The running is just to keep tabs on my overall cardio,

I test each of these sporadically over the coarse of the year and if they're low, then I'll program in a few sessions over 3-4 weeks to get them back to par. 

The other factor is what you're training for - I tend to do loads of development which involves big days of full body workouts where I'd still like to be able to climb.  I take others out and they're so drained after a day of cleaning, they can barely climb at all. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on February 27, 2015, 11:22:59 pm
100% agree that these are no relevent to most people climbing. 

That's good, thought I'd gone mad for a second there. Obviously if you've got other things which need you to be strong for then it's a bit different!

The other factor is what you're training for
For sure. If I were training for big walling I'm sure I'd need to go more general shit like this to prep for the hauling etc.

I'm impressed you can do 5x1.25xBW bench off the couch, or am I just pathetically weak? I think 1x1.25xBW was better than my best when I lifted weights for a year or so back when I was at school.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 27, 2015, 11:27:42 pm
Alex, how did you enter into climbing?

Was it a gradual build up from a young age or a late teen immersion?

I have a vague hypothesis...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on February 28, 2015, 12:29:53 am
100% agree that these are no relevent to most people climbing. 

That's good, thought I'd gone mad for a second there. Obviously if you've got other things which need you to be strong for then it's a bit different!

The other factor is what you're training for
For sure. If I were training for big walling I'm sure I'd need to go more general shit like this to prep for the hauling etc.

I'm impressed you can do 5x1.25xBW bench off the couch, or am I just pathetically weak? I think 1x1.25xBW was better than my best when I lifted weights for a year or so back when I was at school.

I also think the style of climbing makes a differences.  Steep sport vs. vertical crimping, Trad vs. bouldering, grit vs. lime. 

I'm low on bench right now, and it's also my lowest priority so I'm not going to program it for a bit.  I did a test about 2 weeks back and I'm currently at just above BW (and my BW is currently at about 1.1 of where it should be :) )

I should hit my DL goal next week, so I'll do a second session of them at the goal, then drop them in favour of something else.  Probably more pulling accessory stuff as I've finally realized that pull strength is now one of my primary weaknesses (aside from the fat ass - which by the way is from way too much beer and sweets over the holidays-not from lifting.  ).   



Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on February 28, 2015, 07:12:24 am
Stairs - 6 flights up and down carrying 100+lbs.
I'm still unconvinced that these are in any way relevant to climbing.

Some crags have longer approaches than Parisella's. I runwalk up lots of flights of stairs with a heavy rucksack on because I want to be able to get to the starts of rock climbs in the Alps without being completely f*cked before I even start climbing.

(Never down with the heavy weight though, my knees are too precious to me to do that)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2015, 09:25:43 am
@Sasq,
in the poterior chain thread you said that you wouldn't sprint because your legs tend to easily bulk, but what about DL?
They have basically the same pattern, only even more quad dominant, and I've always bulked in the quads more easily that in the hams.
And the running? I know you like and need to be fit, but I remember that when I used to run, many years ago, my legs were the only muscular part of my body - kind of - and I was weak as a kitten on rock and plastic.
Just curious.
P.s. Last sprint session was amazing.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on February 28, 2015, 09:34:34 am
Alex, how did you enter into climbing?

Was it a gradual build up from a young age or a late teen immersion?

Started at 17, was moderately into it for a ~18 months, then got hooked on my gap year. Mainly trad for the first 4 years, then gradually got more and more into sport climbing, bouldering, training...

in the poterior chain thread you said that you wouldn't sprint because your legs tend to easily bulk, but what about DL?
This is my first reaction when everyone talks about deadlifting. I want sparrow legs, not meaty Arnie ones.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2015, 09:47:23 am
Given your body type Alex, you could DL for ages before putting on half a kilo, unless training like a horse on steroids and eating as if here were no tomorrow.
We all have the same concern. In the first pics that I have when I started climbing, my legs were twice their size now. With time I shifted some weight from lower to upper body, but having chicken legs and thick torso is not only terribly ugly, it's also a recipe for imbalances and injuries, when lifting.
I was referring to Sasq because of what he'd said before. I think that DL and running can bulk legs as DL if not more.
As for me, I don't deadlift anymore mainly because I haven't got time to go to the gym, and because whenever I go I get sucked in and want to get to 3xBW which would require a massive effort and probably gaining a few kilos in the process.
But - still on the subject of bulking legs - despite the weights finishers and the sprints (once per week) my weight is constant. Muscular quality has gone through the roof though, you should see my biceps peaks and line and the veins in my traps and delts.
Or maybe you shouldn't.
 :oops: :badidea: :-[
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 28, 2015, 10:28:51 am

Alex, how did you enter into climbing?

Was it a gradual build up from a young age or a late teen immersion?

Started at 17, was moderately into it for a ~18 months, then got hooked on my gap year. Mainly trad for the first 4 years, then gradually got more and more into sport climbing, bouldering, training...

in the poterior chain thread you said that you wouldn't sprint because your legs tend to easily bulk, but what about DL?
This is my first reaction when everyone talks about deadlifting. I want sparrow legs, not meaty Arnie ones.
Thanks Alex.
Were you "sporty" or sedentary and where did your dabbling in weights fit in?

I think, I'm thinking of the weights aspect slightly differently to how others here imagine.

I'm talking about using free weights to strengthen and condition muscle trains, not to increase bulk.
So, higher reps and lower weight.
Building, as it were, body tension.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2015, 10:35:07 am
Higher reps and lower weight is a must-do for mass, unless you're thiniking about 20+ reps with very light weights, to get conditioning, vascularity, etc.
Very low reps (3/5) and max weights do not bulk much. In fact, pure and real strength training is generally overlooked by bodybuilders, and the real power monsters (weightlifters) aren't mass monsters compared to what they lift and compared with BBers.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on February 28, 2015, 10:37:57 am
Was fairly middling at school in terms of sporty vs sedentary. Went through phases of being into mountain biking, running and a phase of general gym stuff during teenage years before getting into climbing, but also phases where I didn't do that much. Actually, the gym phase lasted a couple of years and crossed over into the time when I started climbing. I was never good at most sports - shit at rugby, football etc. Was ok at running, narrowly missed 40min 10k before injuring myself and stopping doing it. Was weak in the gym compared to the 'sporty' kids (those who would be on all the teams). I guess doing that during formative years may have had benefits which have lasted, though we did stuff with shit form (fucked my wrist up the day after my last GCSE due to benching with wrist at wrong angle, fortuitous timing!).
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 28, 2015, 12:51:53 pm

Was fairly middling at school in terms of sporty vs sedentary. Went through phases of being into mountain biking, running and a phase of general gym stuff during teenage years before getting into climbing, but also phases where I didn't do that much. Actually, the gym phase lasted a couple of years and crossed over into the time when I started climbing. I was never good at most sports - shit at rugby, football etc. Was ok at running, narrowly missed 40min 10k before injuring myself and stopping doing it. Was weak in the gym compared to the 'sporty' kids (those who would be on all the teams). I guess doing that during formative years may have had benefits which have lasted, though we did stuff with shit form (fucked my wrist up the day after my last GCSE due to benching with wrist at wrong angle, fortuitous timing!).

Hmmm...

I think (think, don't know) that might be quite a common narrative for climbers.
Had your school placed greater emphasis on Athletics or Gymnastics, over ball sports, things might have been different.
I used to swim (County and TriService) and it was a common theme there too.

Another common lead in to climbing has been hill walking and hiking.

It sounds like your history might have given you and excellent basis (and strong posterior chain) prior to beginning to climb.

Ball sports are the only sport taken seriously by (I'd say) the majority of British schools (if they take any sport seriously).
If you lack "Ball skills" (or "that" kind of coordination) you will be sidelined regardless of your athletic ability.

However.

That is not so true today.

Many younger climbers have little or no sporting background (without wishing to sound like a UKIP spokesman) because the emphasis on sport and PE at school has diminished, as have active leisure pursuits.

They don't have that basis to build on.

So when they discover the nirvana that is climbing, throw themselves into it and proceed to develop asymmetrically, to destruction.

Getting on the board, to develop a posterior chain, is asking for injury if you have none to start with.

The same is, probably, true when returning from a long layoff/injury.
I'd call the board "advanced" training, to be progressed to.

Then, weights allow maintenance of many chains, when other avenues are closed, for whatever reason (skin, finger injury etc).

And Nibs, the problem with the Max Strength type training, is again the risk of injury. Operate near a limit and it's easier to exceed it.
The same becomes true with excessive reps on light weights and you move into an "overuse" situation.

So everything depends on what YOU want to achieve from your training and your history.
Weights don't automatically imply mass increase, neither do they automatically cross over directly to improvement of your climbing.

But, again, I'd hypothesise a sensible course is to take a little of all; think about your imbalances, your weaknesses and leave no joint weak.

(Remember you need those ankles, knees and hips, even if it's just for landing from that highball you just screwed up)....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 28, 2015, 01:28:09 pm
Some crags have longer approaches than Parisella's. I runwalk up lots of flights of stairs with a heavy rucksack on because I want to be able to get to the starts of rock climbs in the Alps without being completely f*cked before I even start climbing.
:yes: Perhaps more pertinently, barras is probably going to find it a lot easier to crush Realisation if trotting up that hill feels like a piece of piss.

Barras, ignoring weights for a mo, what cardio stuff do you do, and what do you do on your rest days / days off training??

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2015, 03:22:44 pm
that highball you just screwed up
You talkin' to me?
I am scared just by getting to the top of my board...
 ;)
What you say about injury risk is correct, for both approaches.
Sadly, once a strength junkie, always a strength junkie.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: abarro81 on February 28, 2015, 03:38:19 pm
Rest days I usually stretch, sometimes a 30min jog. Plus catch up on work, life etc. That usually fills the evening. I try to plan to do long work days on rest days if a long work day is needed.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: jwi on February 28, 2015, 04:35:47 pm
Slightly  :off: ... but for those who's worried that strength training will make you heavy (w/o energy surplus). Can you snatch 138 kg? Do you weigh less than 58 kg? If not: what's your excuse?  :P

138 Snatch - World Record Weightlifting (Halil Mutlu) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ-ke6ouvK4#noexternalembed)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on February 28, 2015, 04:47:29 pm
Can you snatch 138 kg? Do you weigh less than 58 kg? If not: what's your excuse?  :P

Thats pretty heavy for an oompa loompa though. 4'11"!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2015, 06:12:31 pm
Slightly  :off: ... but for those who's worried that strength training will make you heavy (w/o energy surplus). Can you snatch 138 kg? Do you weigh less than 58 kg? If not: what's your excuse?  :P

138 Snatch - World Record Weightlifting (Halil Mutlu) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ-ke6ouvK4#noexternalembed)
That's what I meant.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on February 28, 2015, 08:41:40 pm
@Sasq,
in the posterior chain thread you said that you wouldn't sprint because your legs tend to easily bulk, but what about DL?
They have basically the same pattern, only even more quad dominant, and I've always bulked in the quads more easily that in the hams.
And the running? I know you like and need to be fit, but I remember that when I used to run, many years ago, my legs were the only muscular part of my body - kind of - and I was weak as a kitten on rock and plastic.
Just curious.
P.s. Last sprint session was amazing.
I haven't found any substantial leg bulk from deadlifting, but then I :
1-already have beefy legs - its genetic for me, although they are slowly getting smaller
2-only do two or three sessions a year of 2-4 weeks nowadays, and
3-I'm not aiming to keep increasing once i hit my goal.  If I was trying to keep progressing, then I likely would see bulk gain. 

The same basically goes for running.  I spent my youth playing soccer, running, and swimming, and spent a good 5-7 years as an adult doing distance running, biking and triathlons, so my running/cardio baseline is pretty high.  As an example, until this past week I haven't run since sometime last May.  I went and ran a couple of 30ish minute 4 milers, so that's 7:30ish miles (I wasn't timing it very well), which means I'm in the ballpark for my baseline mile time.  The reason I haven't run since May is a result of this board and researching the impacts of running.  I think knowing yourself and your personal baselines makes a huge difference. 

I have a couple of brothers I climb with regularly.  They are exactly as Matt describes: non-athletic, only ever climbed starting around 12-14yo.  They're both injury prone and one has had both shoulders and hips operated on at 26 years old.  Background makes a difference. 

In regards to high rep/low weight vs. low rep/high weight, lets eliminate the vagueness. In general, the classic understanding, which I've researched in the past, but don't have now, is:
3-5 sets of 3-5 reps at 90-95% 1 round max = max strength build - some bulk
3-5 sets of 6-12 reps at 75-85% 1 round max = max bulk - some strength, some Str endurance
3-5 sets of 12-20 reps at 60-75% 1 round max = Max Str endurance, some strength, minimal bulk.

There's a time and place for each, but the middle one is really only for body builders :)  For functionality the first and third are both good.  I tend to do one session of each per week during my strength cycles. 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 28, 2015, 09:42:03 pm
My routines would fall into the later category, except I'm only doing 2 sets per exercise per week.
So typically,
Mil press 10 x 45kg
Behind neck 10x 45kg
Upright rows 10x 45kg
Squats  10x 45 kg
Deadlifts 10x65kg

But that's just one part of the session. I posted the whole thing elsewhere.
Done twice a week, with the aim of re-conditioning my global strength before heading back to the board around week 8 (I'm also doing a Campus session once per week and a FB session (Max hangs) once a week).

I'm in week five and feeling a hell of a lot better.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 03, 2015, 06:15:17 pm
i think all climbers should do weights,whether it helps to get through the grades or not that irrelevant. it will get rid of those spaghetti arms and flat chests you see at walls and crags
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on March 03, 2015, 06:22:38 pm
i think all climbers should do weights,whether it helps to get through the grades or not that irrelevant. it will get rid of those spaghetti arms and flat chests you see at walls and crags

To be fair those big arms and chests don't maketh the climber.

http://www.beastmaker.co.uk/blogs/news/16977024-biff-beastmaker-international-footless-festival (http://www.beastmaker.co.uk/blogs/news/16977024-biff-beastmaker-international-footless-festival)

I assumed one of the powerhouses would win that but if you've ever seen louis parkinson he is not a monster to look at.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 03, 2015, 07:23:48 pm
but climbing a few grades less if preferable to looking like a 12 year old
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 03, 2015, 08:11:13 pm
Louis has the biggest/broadest shoulder combo I've ever seen on a waif. Pretty tough to replicate
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on March 03, 2015, 08:25:26 pm
Louis has the biggest/broadest shoulder combo I've ever seen on a waif. Pretty tough to replicate

I know right! You look at him and think, nah, hes not going to be a beast. You look a little closer after you have seen him make something look like piss and realise he is actually hench as fuck apart from his arms.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on March 03, 2015, 08:37:12 pm
Why would you assume one of the powerhouses would win? It's pretty obvious a guy who weighs next to nothing would win a footless comp I thought. No offence to anyone but he's about as hench as a paper bag
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 03, 2015, 08:37:31 pm
Haha. Spot on :D
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 16, 2015, 08:40:31 pm
I've been getting the weights psyche back again, since my finger skin is semi-permanently fucked from bouldering a lot in the last 2 months, and I feel the urge to push my body somehow.

Still working towards the elusive 2XBW4LYFEBITCHES (that's 2XBW deadlift not benchpress Mark S). Without having done any proper weights for 2 years, I'm back up to my previous PB of 120kg in a couple of sessions.

Today I warmed up with 10 mins rowing then a few light bicep curls and shoulder presses whilst waiting for a free bar.

Then did:
2 x 5 x 90
2 x 3 x 110
2 x 2 x 120
3 x 1 x 130
1 x 5 x 110 (warm down)

130 feels hard to me. The others I can concentrate on smoothness and good style, 130 is just about getting it off the ground. Unfortunately unlike you skinny shitebags I've got to get to 150 to be 2 x 75 so still quite a way to go. I will keep trying.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on March 17, 2015, 05:07:30 am
I've been getting the weights psyche back again, since my finger skin is semi-permanently fucked from bouldering a lot in the last 2 months, and I feel the urge to push my body somehow.

Still working towards the elusive 2XBW4LYFEBITCHES (that's 2XBW deadlift not benchpress Mark S). Without having done any proper weights for 2 years, I'm back up to my previous PB of 120kg in a couple of sessions.

Today I warmed up with 10 mins rowing then a few light bicep curls and shoulder presses whilst waiting for a free bar.

Then did:
2 x 5 x 90
2 x 3 x 110
2 x 2 x 120
3 x 1 x 130
1 x 5 x 110 (warm down)

130 feels hard to me. The others I can concentrate on smoothness and good style, 130 is just about getting it off the ground. Unfortunately unlike you skinny shitebags I've got to get to 150 to be 2 x 75 so still quite a way to go. I will keep trying.

Work on starting to build a base at 110 or 120 by trying to get up to sets of 5. I've found that I mainly do sets of 5 at 120 or 130 these days, and on the odd occasions that I try for a max (i.e.: 170 or 2XBW) I can ladder up to there relatively easily.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: TheTwig on March 17, 2015, 05:55:50 am
 I deadlift at home where I have an awesome rack, olympic bar and weights set but it's 80kg max +10(?)kg bar, so I can't go any further  :'(

I'm 70kg at around 6ft and I can do 90x5 or something. Maybe it's time to start filling empty paint cans with cement and sticking them on the ends of the bar  :lol: I'm well impressed at anyone that can go past 1.5 bodyweight tbh, it's so fucking hard!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on March 17, 2015, 10:33:43 am

I'm 70kg at around 6ft and I can do 90x5 or something. Maybe it's time to start filling empty paint cans with cement and sticking them on the ends of the bar  :lol: I'm well impressed at anyone that can go past 1.5 bodyweight tbh, it's so fucking hard!

To be fair, you are not heavy at all for your height so I imagine that you will find it hard to get to 2x bodyweight without putting on some more muscle. Being over 6' tall as well won't make it any easier. I reckon you are doing well at the moment.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 17, 2015, 10:40:55 am
I'm 70kg at around 6ft and I can do 90x5 or something. Maybe it's time to start filling empty paint cans with cement and sticking them on the ends of the bar  :lol: BUYING NEW WEIGHTS AND AN OLYMPIC BAR THAT WON'T SNAP IN TWO UNDER THE MONSTROUS LOAD I'M GOING TO PUT ON IT I'm well impressed at anyone that can go past 1.5 bodyweight tbh, it's so fucking hard!
Fixed that for you.
If your bar weighs only 10 kg, it's far too thin to bear 140 kg without serious risk of snapping. If it's an Olympic bar, then it should weigh 20 kg and you've just gained 10 kg to your PB without even trying.  ;)
Deadlifting is already quite tricky, so play as safe as possible. Olympic bar, proper plates, no cement buckets.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on March 17, 2015, 11:19:16 am
Deadlifting is already quite tricky, so play as safe as possible. Olympic bar, proper plates, no cement buckets.

Seconded. Be very careful, especially as the weight increases.

I'm 70kg at around 6ft and I can do 90x5 or something. Maybe it's time to start filling empty paint cans with cement and sticking them on the ends of the bar  :lol: I'm well impressed at anyone that can go past 1.5 bodyweight tbh, it's so fucking hard!

To be fair, you are not heavy at all for your height so I imagine that you will find it hard to get to 2x bodyweight without putting on some more muscle. Being over 6' tall as well won't make it any easier. I reckon you are doing well at the moment.

I'm 6'4" and I found that using stands for the weights (height of approx. 10cm) to get the bar to mid-shin made a huge difference at first, especially in terms of keeping my form good.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 17, 2015, 12:59:39 pm
I'm 70kg at around 6ft and I can do 90x5 or something. Maybe it's time to start filling empty paint cans with cement and sticking them on the ends of the bar  :lol: BUYING NEW WEIGHTS AND AN OLYMPIC BAR THAT WON'T SNAP IN TWO UNDER THE MONSTROUS LOAD I'M GOING TO PUT ON IT I'm well impressed at anyone that can go past 1.5 bodyweight tbh, it's so fucking hard!
Fixed that for you.
If your bar weighs only 10 kg, it's far too thin to bear 140 kg without serious risk of snapping. If it's an Olympic bar, then it should weigh 20 kg and you've just gained 10 kg to your PB without even trying.  ;)
Deadlifting is already quite tricky, so play as safe as possible. Olympic bar, proper plates, no cement buckets.

I have a 10kg Oly bar Nibs. they make them for people like me that don't have much space, so they are only 5ft long, rather than 7ft long, but are rated to way over 200kg. properly made with 50mm diameter ends, with integral bearings etc. I'm still to manage to lift much over 130 however, despite having enough discs in the flat.

those spinlock york bars however are a little risky.



Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 17, 2015, 02:21:01 pm
I didn't know about shorter olympic bars.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 17, 2015, 02:27:22 pm
the_dom, that's exactly what I'm doing. It's only my 3rd session lifting in the last year or so, and I'm slowly upping the lowest weight each time.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mindfull on March 17, 2015, 03:54:27 pm
I'm 70kg at around 6ft and I can do 90x5 or something. Maybe it's time to start filling empty paint cans with cement and sticking them on the ends of the bar  :lol: BUYING NEW WEIGHTS AND AN OLYMPIC BAR THAT WON'T SNAP IN TWO UNDER THE MONSTROUS LOAD I'M GOING TO PUT ON IT I'm well impressed at anyone that can go past 1.5 bodyweight tbh, it's so fucking hard!
Fixed that for you.
If your bar weighs only 10 kg, it's far too thin to bear 140 kg without serious risk of snapping. If it's an Olympic bar, then it should weigh 20 kg and you've just gained 10 kg to your PB without even trying.  ;)
Deadlifting is already quite tricky, so play as safe as possible. Olympic bar, proper plates, no cement buckets.

I have a 10kg Oly bar Nibs. they make them for people like me that don't have much space, so they are only 5ft long, rather than 7ft long, but are rated to way over 200kg. properly made with 50mm diameter ends, with integral bearings etc. I'm still to manage to lift much over 130 however, despite having enough discs in the flat.

those spinlock york bars however are a little risky.

Might be easier to talk about 30mm or 50mm bars, as the plates are also important. There are 30mm adapters for 50mm plates though. Ik know the shorter 50mm bars and indeed they are much stronger than the 30mm bars.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 17, 2015, 03:59:05 pm
30mm are studio weights, 50mm are oly and 25mm are toy weights iirc
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 17, 2015, 06:09:28 pm
if getting hold of heavy weights is a problem.maybe try front squats.its almost the same movement as a deadlift.when you do get back to deadlifts they should feel easier.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muesli on March 18, 2015, 03:25:03 pm
30mm are studio weights, 50mm are oly and 25mm are toy weights iirc


Does the grip diameter stay the same or is that also bigger on an olympic bar ?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mindfull on March 18, 2015, 05:05:38 pm
30mm are studio weights, 50mm are oly and 25mm are toy weights iirc

Front squats are silver. Overhead squats are gold. Olympic lifts is what's it at!  :popcorn:

B.t.w your quote is BS. As even with single hand 25mm maxing out on plates, you 'won't get them curled! Broscience ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 18, 2015, 06:16:23 pm
In a thread about deadlifting my statement stands. In saying that we kept our spinlock set for dumbells :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: SiWitcher on March 18, 2015, 08:51:32 pm
Quote
Does the grip diameter stay the same or is that also bigger on an olympic bar ?

The grip diameter on a proper olympic bar is 28mm for men, and 25mm for women. A dedicated powerlifting bar will be a little fatter eg 29mm+, to reduce the springiness, which would be unhelpful for DLs and squats at heavier weights. There are plenty of cheaper bars around though, billed as olympic bars, with 50mm dia collars, 2200mm length and fatter bar diameters, but which won't be great for C&J or snatch.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muesli on March 18, 2015, 09:48:36 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 19, 2015, 11:32:14 am
Just busted out my deadlift PB - nothing special since it's only 1 x BW but a milestone anyway! Up till now I've only ever done them as knee physio/rehab and therefore instead of going heavier I was told to go wobblier - one leg, then one leg on a wobble board etc.

Also did a 0.7 x BW squat which I'm quite chuffed with as I had a pretty dodgy left knee since the autumn (heel hook, swelling, pain etc.). and my knee felt great.

I'm going to hurt tomorrow probably!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on March 19, 2015, 11:55:05 am
I've been getting the weights psyche back again, since my finger skin is semi-permanently fucked from bouldering a lot in the last 2 months, and I feel the urge to push my body somehow.

Still working towards the elusive 2XBW4LYFEBITCHES (that's 2XBW deadlift not benchpress Mark S). Without having done any proper weights for 2 years, I'm back up to my previous PB of 120kg in a couple of sessions.

Today I warmed up with 10 mins rowing then a few light bicep curls and shoulder presses whilst waiting for a free bar.

Then did:
2 x 5 x 90
2 x 3 x 110
2 x 2 x 120
3 x 1 x 130
1 x 5 x 110 (warm down)

130 feels hard to me. The others I can concentrate on smoothness and good style, 130 is just about getting it off the ground. Unfortunately unlike you skinny shitebags I've got to get to 150 to be 2 x 75 so still quite a way to go. I will keep trying.


Nice post Fiend - the 2XBW thing is something I'd like to tick as well, but as my bodyweight is creeping up this is moving the goalposts on an almost weekly basis!


As a skinny shortarse I'm aiming for 130kg and have got to a 1RM of 100kg so will tweak those weights and see how we go.







Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: TheTwig on March 19, 2015, 03:56:32 pm
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/racsojuno/20150319_1541301.jpg)

There's my somewhat sweet setup. I actually have no idea how much my bars weighs! I use the shorter one for deadlifts etc as you can see it doesn't fit the rack (just stuck it there for comparison).

Thinking about it they must be alot heavier as you say Nibs, I'll get them on the scales at some point!  :lol:

Anyone else have the problem of grazing their shins at the beginning and end of the lifts? Especially when lifting heavy.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 19, 2015, 03:58:29 pm
Nice. Pretty sure the long bar is the 20kg ones they have at the gym I use.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: TheTwig on March 19, 2015, 04:03:25 pm
my 1rep max just went up by 10kg, cheers fiend. Can you work that magic for my crimp now  :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on March 19, 2015, 04:24:15 pm

Anyone else have the problem of grazing their shins at the beginning and end of the lifts? Especially when lifting heavy.


Yup. Routinely remove skin off shins and end up bleeding on the bar.


Everything I had read / seen said I should be raking the bar up and down my shins, so I'd just assumed that meant I was using decent form!

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 19, 2015, 10:33:24 pm
my 1rep max just went up by 10kg, cheers fiend. Can you work that magic for my crimp now  :2thumbsup:
There you go.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 19, 2015, 10:59:19 pm

Anyone else have the problem of grazing their shins at the beginning and end of the lifts? Especially when lifting heavy.


Yup. Routinely remove skin off shins and end up bleeding on the bar.


Everything I had read / seen said I should be raking the bar up and down my shins, so I'd just assumed that meant I was using decent form!
I've always tried to maintain the same form regardless of the weight I'm attempting, but I'm not going for a world record or anything so the bar doesn't come into contact with my legs at all.

Perhaps that's why I'm maxing out at 2.2 times bodyweight. Well, either that or it's a throwback to imperial measurements :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on March 19, 2015, 11:17:07 pm
No shin scraping here either.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 19, 2015, 11:21:07 pm
Shin scraping depends also on technique, hips/ankles flexibility and body proportions ( torso, arms and legs lenghts) that cause different angles at the ankles, knees and hips.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on March 20, 2015, 05:31:39 am
No shin scraping here either.

Likewise, but I don't have amazing hamstring / hip flexibility, which may have something to do with it.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 20, 2015, 06:26:03 pm
5 mins rowing, and no farting around waiting for bars...

1 x 5 x 80
1 x 5 x 100
1 x 5 x 120
1 x 3 x 130
3 x 1 x 140
1 x 5 x 100

120 felt nice and smooth, 130 felt more controlled. Progress! Thanks for the syke guys.

Obviously I should be doing proper climbing training for climbing like barras etc and just doing some incredibly structured aerocap-ancap-timed-interval-deadhang-bore-a-thon, but my skin and soft tissue have been so trashed from each day bouldering that I can't even think about pulling on wood let alone plastic and have had to rest 2 full days after each day out. Plus I'm sure the legwork helped a little bit stomping up a hill with some pads on recently...

P.S. Got the gym staff to check my technique the other week, everything was fine but the guy recommended I should be brushing lightly against my legs to help with thrusting the hips out. Seems to work fine, so I'm brushing shins etc but not scraping.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on March 20, 2015, 06:36:08 pm
140 is pretty solid :)

Any noticable change in tension while climbing?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 20, 2015, 07:19:58 pm
the def runs up my legs when deadlifting

you lads who enjoy doing a bit,id really recommend wrist straps. only a few quid off amazon and they make a big difference at the top end of what you can do.

after all remember you are doing deadlifts mainly for core ,shoulders,legs and mostly back.so grip failing before these is unwanted.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on March 22, 2015, 02:54:24 pm
After a couple of weeks of doing squats instead, I went back to deadlifts the other day. Great session by my standards, best ever in fact  :weakbench:

1 x 5 x 100kg
1 x 5 x 120kg
1 x 5 x 130kg
1 x 5 x 140kg
1 x 4 x 140kg (was going for 5, but form was starting to wane on the 4th rep and I thought better of it)

This makes me believe that a rep at 2xBW is on the cards for me now (77kg -> 155kg to be sure), but I'm intending to just ramp gradually rather than push anything for the sake of numbers (pfft, and I claim to be a boulderer...). I'm definitely noticing some improvements in my climbing. My heel hooking on my left leg has always been shit compared to my right, but was much improved last session at the wall. Also, tried a nasty undercut sitstart that didn't feel within me, but powered through it first go ;D
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 22, 2015, 10:05:26 pm
140 is pretty solid :)

Any noticable change in tension while climbing?
Yeah, I reckon. When I did the Mandala the other week, I'm sure it helped locking my core in and keeping me on the footholds  :yes:

Bon effort benno  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on March 25, 2015, 01:32:30 pm
Erm, what?!

Eddie Hall - 462 KG / 1018.5 Pounds - World Record (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w95Yi9HcQ7s#ws)

Notable mashed right shin, but not left, so that's confuses the "should the bar touch my shins" debate even further...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 25, 2015, 01:47:04 pm
Top climbing physique there, that's what we're all aiming for  :punk:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on March 25, 2015, 01:56:16 pm
Shit, you're right! Someone delete it before Barrows gets in here to gloat...  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rosmat on March 25, 2015, 04:59:07 pm
Top climbing physique there, that's what we're all aiming for  :punk:

You're almost there Matt.  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 25, 2015, 10:37:37 pm
Top climbing physique there, that's what we're all aiming for  :punk:

You're almost there Matt.  ;)
In sure that guy would've lifted more if he was wearing an amazing dayglo/camo/beanie combo
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 26, 2015, 09:09:47 am
It adds 1.5 grades to anyone's bouldering so yeah I reckon 480+ would have gone, then again the tattoos and mini-mohawk might have negated it.



(you cocks)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on March 30, 2015, 01:25:45 pm
you lads who enjoy doing a bit,id really recommend wrist straps. only a few quid off amazon and they make a big difference at the top end of what you can do.

 Word

just tried straps today for the first time and straight off added 10kg to my PB - thanks Mark
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 30, 2015, 04:35:50 pm
good man,keep it up. :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 30, 2015, 07:34:35 pm
Did same session as the other week. Didn't manage the first 140 so had to have a little word with myself and then did 3 x 1, just.

Doesn't feel like my grip is the weak point, how would I know?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 30, 2015, 07:40:19 pm
you'd be surprised how much grip holds you back.for the low price of them.give them a go.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on March 30, 2015, 08:27:45 pm
Yeah I wasn't expecting much difference as grip isn't my weak point, also I thought it might feel a bit like missing the point, seeing as how you'd think grip is important to train for climbing..

However..

-It seems to purify the exercise and allows you focus purely on the pull..
-Went from 5x1x170 last week to 2x1x190 this week just by adding the straps..
-I suspect grip strength from weights transfers to climbing about as well as those spring loaded finger exercises, ie fuck-all

Mark can you use a mixed grip with straps or will it all end up unravelling??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 30, 2015, 09:28:47 pm


Yeah I wasn't expecting much difference as I wrongly believed that grip isn't my weak point

Fixed that for you
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 30, 2015, 10:35:52 pm
But then I might look like a proper gym person instead of an out-of-place climber in silly stockings  :weakbench:

And also will I still get the tick?  :geek:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on March 30, 2015, 10:55:50 pm
Of course you'll still get the tick, but if you don't mention you did it with straps that's a different story  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on March 31, 2015, 12:04:47 am
And if it ain't on video it didn't happen - I'm already preparing some 'driving to the gym' footage..

And also will I still get the tick?  :geek:

It still qualifies as an unequipped lift - for an equipped DL you'll need to try on one of these bad-ass mankinis:

(https://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2011/11-687-02/andy-bolton.jpg)

Hate to murder the cliche but that really is a strong look!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 31, 2015, 08:54:06 am


Mark can you use a mixed grip with straps or will it all end up unravelling??

i always use a mixed grip,right palm away as thats my stronger arm.

gripping a bar is not like crimping etc,straps will allow you to train all the big muscles that the deadlift is used for.
its back day at the gym,not done d/l for a bit so might do a few today.wont try and do a p.b though.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on April 02, 2015, 11:25:46 am
175kgs yesterday morning. 2.05xBW. Psyched.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on April 02, 2015, 11:29:19 am
 :punk: +  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on April 05, 2015, 01:32:49 pm
More and more doing deadlifts at my gym.its not something alot of people do,must be because they are hard work.
Did some today,did enough but didn't try and do any pb's
10x60
10x100
10x140
6x180
2x200

Did them first while still freash
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on April 05, 2015, 03:24:21 pm
Is freash a leek term you big bastard?  :kiss2:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on April 05, 2015, 06:30:26 pm
Is freash a leek term you big bastard?  :kiss2:

Sounds more weegie to me...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on April 05, 2015, 07:27:05 pm
Is freash a leek term you big bastard?  :kiss2:

oh yaeah looks like i stauck an extraa letter ina
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on April 07, 2015, 06:50:50 pm
Daamn you Shaarratt for giving me/us encouragment for deadlifting, I'm never going to climb 9a now...

2XBW

(with wrist-straps as recommended)

(actually 2.06XBW, I weighed in at 77.5kg at the time)

Did 5 mins rowing, then:

1x5x100
1x5x110
1x5x120
straps on
1x3x130
1x1x140
1x1x150
1x1x155
2x1x160
1x1x155
tried 1x1x150, couldn't do it
1x3x120 warm down - tried 1x5x, couldn't do it

So there we go. Goal for the year achieved, I'm off to climb some HVSes with my extra-beefy thighs.

Although on a more relevant note, I did do 3x2 pull-ups with 30kg weight added.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on April 07, 2015, 09:14:11 pm
good effort,you will soon be going the gym and f'ing off the climbing hehe .getting strong is more addictive.

all the best climbs are HVS ,no need to train for those.just get big and strong and do nice little routes ....2 boxes ticked
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on April 07, 2015, 09:20:36 pm
Wise words ;) Might have a visit to Ramshaw HVS cracks this summer
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on April 08, 2015, 06:21:22 am
Daamn you Shaarratt for giving me/us encouragment for deadlifting, I'm never going to climb 9a now...

2XBW

(with wrist-straps as recommended)

(actually 2.06XBW, I weighed in at 77.5kg at the time)

....

So there we go. Goal for the year achieved, I'm off to climb some HVSes with my extra-beefy thighs.

Although on a more relevant note, I did do 3x2 pull-ups with 30kg weight added.

BOOM! Good work!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on April 15, 2015, 12:12:31 pm
I ordered some wrist straps (the cheapest figure of 8 ones off amazon) and they've arrived today! Looking forward to trying them out, particularly as my grip was RUBBISH last time I was in the gym. It felt as though my form was going to shit because I was anxious about dropping the bar more than anything else. It was ungodly hot in there, so conditions were far from optimal  :whatever:

So saying, I'm aiming to get up to the mythical realm of 2BW, which I think should happen pretty soon with the straps and then was intending to just hang around at that weight (155kg) whilst trying to get up to it without the straps. Is there any point in this, do we reckon? I've read in this thread that the grip strength for deadlifts is "not applicable to climbing" but I fail to see how stronger forearms can't help, even if it's not exactly the same hand position. I get the line of argument that says grip shouldn't hold you back from achieving your target, but what if you're already there?

In other news, doing deadlifts, squats and standing dumbbell military press and side and front raises has done more to sort out my shoulder posture in 6 months than stretching alone has done in two years. It's been two whole days now since I've had my right shoulder clunk back into position when rolling my shoulders back. Feels very weird, in a good way  ;D Quite glad I took up the corporate gym membership after all...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on April 15, 2015, 06:37:02 pm
standing dumbbell military press ... has done more to sort out my shoulder posture in 6 months than stretching alone has done in two years.

I'm doing a set that I picked up from a youtube video from one of the Gym Jones types. Ten presses on one side, hold at the top for ten seconds, repeat until done, change sides. I'm nearly through the third set of presses with a 6kg kettlebell

(I actually bought the 6kg kettlebell for my son, but then it turned  to be super useful for things like extra fingerboarding weight, reverse wrist curls etc)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on April 15, 2015, 06:42:30 pm
The grip will tire your forearm out pointlessly, best to leave it for climbing the day after or the day after that. Just stick with the straps now you've made the leap
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on April 16, 2015, 09:21:59 am
Good point, well made.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on April 16, 2015, 09:46:09 am
re: deadlifting in general!


 ;D ;D ;D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaYX-7emO4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaYX-7emO4U)


Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on April 17, 2015, 01:32:54 pm
Is there any point in this, do we reckon?
Yeah, cos it will shut Tris Fox up and stop him waffling on about wrist straps being cheating despite that bloody video of Arnie congratulating the guy doing a world record with straps. Mark do you fancy meeting up at Ramshaw or something next time Tris and I are down in the peak, so you can beat his fat arse with your 140kg pressing arms??


(i.e. no but it's up to you, I might do the same, just for fun)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on April 17, 2015, 10:03:27 pm
Well, that was enlightening. Warmed up and decided to see what I could do as just one rep. 160kg felt... surprisingly OK. I didn't go any further, but there was some leeway still. Who knew my grip was so bad?

Also, YYFY, 2BW FTW OMFG!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on April 17, 2015, 10:15:16 pm
 :punk:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on April 18, 2015, 07:59:45 am
"Who knew my grip was so bad"

Everyone who's used straps before  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on April 19, 2015, 08:09:15 pm
Is there any point in this, do we reckon?
Yeah, cos it will shut Tris Fox up and stop him waffling on about wrist straps being cheating despite that bloody video of Arnie congratulating the guy doing a world record with straps. Mark do you fancy meeting up at Ramshaw or something next time Tris and I are down in the peak, so you can beat his fat arse with your 140kg pressing arms??


(i.e. no but it's up to you, I might do the same, just for fun)

easy  :great:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on April 21, 2015, 07:06:00 pm
Recovering bodybuilder Kris Hampton of Power Company Climbing has an interesting article on Deadlifting for Climbing: Truth or Trend? (http://www.powercompanyclimbing.com/2015/04/deadlifting-for-climbing-truth-or-trend.html)

Quote
Those whose climbing WILL likely benefit from lifting
...
2. The Aging

Count me in then.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: kelvin on April 21, 2015, 08:28:39 pm
... and he also counts me out, as I'm basically a new climber.

*phew
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: benno on April 22, 2015, 09:27:00 am
Good link, Muenchener. I think that's pretty much what I thought about it all already. If it wasn't so much easier for me to get to the gym than the wall, I certainly wouldn't spend as much time there as I do, but despite being 27, I figure I may as well treat myself as "aging" already and try and fix my posture and strength imbalances preemptively. Deadlifting seems to being doing the (part of) trick for me, with the added benefit that I enjoy it. It also feels like it transfers very well to some aspects of climbing, particularly using undercuts on steep climbs.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on September 13, 2015, 07:48:10 pm
First time in the gym for ages yesterday, after a month or two climbing trad as good as I ever have. Struggled to do 1 rep of 130kg after warming up. Hands were a bit sweaty, but even so.

Conclusion: trad is rubbish training for deadlifting. You have been warned.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on September 13, 2015, 09:27:17 pm
But it appears deadlifting has done wonders for your trad  :kiss2:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on September 14, 2015, 08:40:30 am


Conclusion: trad is rubbish. You have been warned.

Fixed that little typo you made.

You're welcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Bubba on September 19, 2015, 08:36:00 pm
http://i.imgur.com/fhDgeyl.gifv
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on September 20, 2015, 09:08:51 am
 :strongbench: very literally!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatneck on September 22, 2015, 09:22:47 am
Beastette!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on September 22, 2015, 10:17:42 am
That's impressive!! :bow:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on September 24, 2015, 01:36:32 pm
That's impressive!! :bow:

So is that!

Are you feeling ok?


Sorry, I feel the world is off kilter when you're nice....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 21, 2016, 10:13:49 am
Quote from: shark
Eve, Wrist complex Bolton complex DB curls DB overhead press Deadlift 1x 147.5 (PB)  :dance1: 1 x 150 (another PB)  :dance1: :dance1: 1x 152.5 almost.  :o  BTW I don't include the weight of the bar - not sure what the etiquette is with this

Good effort sir. Impressive for a skinny cunt who has been wasting far too much time dicking around on The Oak instead of deadlifting. The bars at my gym arw 15 or 20kgs so that's a strong total!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 21, 2016, 10:43:54 am
Quote from: shark
Eve, Wrist complex Bolton complex DB curls DB overhead press Deadlift 1x 147.5 (PB)  :dance1: 1 x 150 (another PB)  :dance1: :dance1: 1x 152.5 almost.  :o  BTW I don't include the weight of the bar - not sure what the etiquette is with this

Good effort sir. Impressive for a skinny cunt who has been wasting far too much time dicking around on The Oak instead of deadlifting. The bars at my gym arw 15 or 20kgs so that's a strong total!

Are we talkin' pounds, or kilos here??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 21, 2016, 03:31:16 pm
Kilos surely, given it's going to 0.5 increments. Pounds will be subdivided into 17½ grommets or bushels or something....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 21, 2016, 04:56:36 pm
Quote from: shark
Eve, Wrist complex Bolton complex DB curls DB overhead press Deadlift 1x 147.5 (PB)  :dance1: 1 x 150 (another PB)  :dance1: :dance1: 1x 152.5 almost.  :o  BTW I don't include the weight of the bar - not sure what the etiquette is with this

Good effort sir. Impressive for a skinny cunt who has been wasting far too much time dicking around on The Oak instead of deadlifting. The bars at my gym arw 15 or 20kgs so that's a strong total!

Are we talkin' pounds, or kilos here??

 :tease:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: jwi on March 22, 2016, 09:45:02 pm
A 190 kg deadlift is quite OK. For a 16 year old girl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrfNlROvlXI

(Ms Winroth does powerlifting on the side, her main focus is football. She plays in the highest division in Sweden. Yes, she's also did 190 kg in competition)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 22, 2016, 09:59:40 pm
Kilos surely, given it's going to 0.5 increments. Pounds will be subdivided into 17½ grommets or bushels or something....

Still not weighed the bar but here's a video of my attempt at 152.5kg with my form collapsing from the off for your amusement

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NCo77ezCjak
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on March 23, 2016, 05:53:45 am
That's so bizarre to me.  I've never once failed if i can get it off the ground :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 23, 2016, 08:59:23 am
Shark, given that you've done your PB and have pulled some serious poundage, may I suggest that you assess your form? You seem to be doing what I was doing too, that is more a Romanian Deadlift. It's fine, but it could be a bit more dangerous.
If you watch the video, you'll see that your hips shoot up before the bar lifts the ground. You have a rounded upper back and that's fine, and your lower back is neutral which is good also.
But then when pulling you find yourself with torso at 90 degrees, legs almost straight and the lower back a little rounded. Also, your neck isn't neutral, you're looking up. If you pause the video, you'll see that your spine makes an S from neck to lower back. This is not good, especially if pulling lots of weight.
I think, from what I've read, that your deadlift (like mine was) is too little legs driven. The angle of the torso should remain constant throughout the first part of the pull, with lower back extending after the bar has cleared the knees. There should be a hips and knee extension at the same time, while you shoot hips up, extend the knees and then pull with just the lower back. I was making the same thing.
I've read that you should keep the neck neutral by trying to make a double chin, so not looking up, and that you should depress the scapulae and  "make a big chest" before and during the pull. The trick is: if a person in front of you can't read what's written on your t-shirt, you're too low.
I would also check the stance width, I can't be sure but your feet seem to be quite close together. This could cause poor hips mobility for the fist part of the pull.

I tell you this just because you seem to be quite psyched and you clearly are quite strong in the DL, so a perfect form could be giving you great results.
HTH
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on March 23, 2016, 10:53:43 am
That's so bizarre to me.  I've never once failed if i can get it off the ground :)

i blame the carpet ;D
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on March 23, 2016, 11:23:09 am
Hi Nibs

I was psyched to get the result but really I just did those two lifts as an afterthought which is what I tend to do about every 3/4 weeks or so.

My form did collapse when I started lifting  but in the starting position I had my feet and head in line with the Mark Rippetoe instructional video that I follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfYez7-h55c
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on March 23, 2016, 11:39:22 am

That's so bizarre to me.  I've never once failed if i can get it off the ground :)

i blame the carpet ;D

Is that in the 'jihad' room where you filmed your infamous Oak monologue?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 23, 2016, 10:48:37 pm
still not completed my target of a 240 deadlift. did 210 the other week and a few good sets at 160. been squating lots so that will be getting me stronger. did 3 x 180 near horizontal today ,think a 200 squat will happen in the next month or two.

last weekend climbed friday ,saturday and sunday and my 4 year old is really into it now,climbs like a hero.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Bubba on July 11, 2016, 01:15:02 pm
New world record - 500kg  :strongbench:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Y4o_BqC0A
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on July 11, 2016, 01:23:02 pm
Legendary. The real thing.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on July 11, 2016, 01:34:34 pm
He didn't look so healthy after that - any thoughts on what happened?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on July 11, 2016, 02:20:29 pm
Maybe just a little spike of high blood pressure due to standing with 500 kg in his hands for an eternity?  :shrug:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: dave on July 11, 2016, 02:27:26 pm
Hang on, his hands are fucking strapped to the bar? Back around.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on July 11, 2016, 02:44:58 pm
Incredible!!! :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rich d on July 11, 2016, 03:11:33 pm
Maybe just a little spike of high blood pressure due to standing with 500 kg in his hands for an eternity?  :shrug:
"Superman Eddie Hall has muscled his way into the history books by deadlifting a world record half a ton - but says it almost killed him.

Blood vessels in his head exploded, causing nose bleeds and he told afterwards how he briefly passed out in front of a packed Leeds Arena."

from: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/watch-strongman-eddie-hall-deadlifts-world-record-half-a-ton-then-passes-out-at-leeds-arena-1-8006470#ixzz4E6pjvajC

What I find most amazing though is that he's 6 foot 3 and looks squat, shows how absolutely massive he is.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mctrials23 on July 11, 2016, 06:12:44 pm
What I find most amazing though is that he's 6 foot 3 and looks squat, shows how absolutely massive he is.

Utter monster. I thought he was about 5'7" at most.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Plattsy on July 11, 2016, 06:51:38 pm
What I find most amazing though is that he's 6 foot 3 and looks squat, shows how absolutely massive he is.

Utter monster. I thought he was about 5'7" at most.
Weighs something like 28st and eats 10,000 calories a day (5,000 to live, 5,000 for training) !!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: nik at work on July 11, 2016, 06:53:57 pm
What I find most amazing though is that he's 6 foot 3 and looks squat, shows how absolutely massive he is.

Utter monster. I thought he was about 5'7" at most.
And he always looks short at world's strongest man, mind bending how big those mutants must be  :o
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: a dense loner on July 11, 2016, 09:20:58 pm
I reckon if you got Megos to ask Eddie Hall what he eats he'd say 54 kilo's
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: fatneck on July 12, 2016, 03:59:11 pm
Absolute monster!!! Crouchy and I went to the World's Strongest Team event last year and he is fooking massive... What a legend!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Falling Down on July 12, 2016, 04:38:53 pm
It monstrous!

(2.75 X BW though... I'm sure Shaz has done better :P)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on July 13, 2016, 09:34:21 pm
It monstrous!

(2.75 X BW though... I'm sure Shaz has done better :P)

hehe
not done deadlifts for a while.want to do a 150 bench this year so concentrating on that.

500 is beyond what i thought he would ever do.
amazing lift
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on July 14, 2016, 11:11:07 pm
Incredible. When he was interviewed about "500 is coming" the other year, I thought it might happen but in like, several years, incrementally. 463 to 500 in a year is outrageous. What a MONSTER.

Better video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrLdKx8nMAg
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rlovatt on July 29, 2016, 08:08:48 am
Deadlifts are fantastic for building all over strength and recruiting every muscle fibre in your body.

Be careful I was also aiming for x2 bodyweight a few years back and put my back out for months.

Trap bars are loads safer and its easier to get your technique right. You'll find you can lift more with them so you'll need to factor that in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzvsIU9FW60
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on August 02, 2016, 04:06:25 pm
Incredible. When he was interviewed about "500 is coming" the other year, I thought it might happen but in like, several years, incrementally. 463 to 500 in a year is outrageous. What a MONSTER.


i know people who have trained with him,strong lads but they say you cant even imagine how easy he moves big weights.
said he was spending 250 a week on food.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on August 03, 2016, 09:27:26 pm
I've on occasion lifted in the neighbouring rack to big Eddie (look at me, look at me :bounce:)
Impressed that he pushes himself to passing out even on working sets (merely 400s) - I also used to think that big lifters like him were basically fat, but close up he's actually ripped - there's v little fat on him; that thing that looks like a beer belly is a rectus abdominis with a bigger body mass than me!
Friendly guy - up for a chat and a laugh..
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: nik at work on August 10, 2016, 07:12:08 pm
My wife has signed us up to a newly opened gym near work so I have now joined the lifting fraternity.
Popped in after work today to see how much heavy I could move and after a bit of a warm up i performed my first five ever deadlifts:
1 @ 60kg
1 @ 80kg
1 @ 100kg
1 @ 120kg
1 @ 130kg

And I now have a few questions/notes. I took off my shoes (I seem to remember that's the right thing to do?) but didn't have any hand strap things or a belt, does that matter? Up to 100kg felt fairly easy. 120kg felt like an effort but pretty steady, 130kg felt hard but not like I was at my total limit. However above 100kg I was have to arch my back to get the movement started, is this a cardinal sin or does everyone have to do this as the weight goes up?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on August 10, 2016, 09:37:44 pm
Sounds like you're doing everything fine so far.

My gym has expressedly told me I can't take off my shoes to deadlift!

My top tips would be:

Start low weight, and get someone to check your form...you need to feel what good feels like so you don't start risking injury as you lift more.

Check out one of the Mark Rippetoe YouTube videos on how to deadlift, there are a few and they are all very useful.

Watch out on the way down in the movement, that's when I at least tend to roll my shoulders forward and round my back a bit.

Sure a few of the other deadlift fraternity will be on soon to offer other probably better wisdom!

Oh, and impressive numbers for a first crack at it too!

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: nik at work on August 10, 2016, 11:02:24 pm
Cheers TTT.
Just worked out that's 2.28 x BW (YYFY?)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on August 10, 2016, 11:07:03 pm
And I now have a few questions/notes. I took off my shoes (I seem to remember that's the right thing to do?) but didn't have any hand strap things or a belt, does that matter? Up to 100kg felt fairly easy. 120kg felt like an effort but pretty steady, 130kg felt hard but not like I was at my total limit. However above 100kg I was have to arch my back to get the movement started, is this a cardinal sin or does everyone have to do this as the weight goes up?

Taking shoes off is right for a few reasons. First of all, you gain an inch or more, and because you are lower to the ground the first part of the lift gets a bit easier. That's why there are rules for the plates' diameter. Then, being barefooted is safer because a cushioned shoe will collapse under load and will make for an unstable base. Your knees and ankles will not like it.
Then, straps and belts are a personal choice. Belts are fare more difficult to be used properly than most people think. Lifting belts are not made to prevent you from arching your back, otherwise they would be thick in front, not in the back. Belts are mostly used to push your belly and abs against them, in order to increase internal pressure and thus have a harder core. It's a difficult thing to learn.
Arching the back is not a cardinal sin, but it's a very dangerous way to lift. A few pros lift with an arched UPPER BACK, but no one ever lifts with an arched lower back. Arching just the upper back is something that just pros can do, the rest of us won't be able to arch the upper back without arching the lower back also, with high loads.
So, the key is flat back. At all costs.
The angle of the spine to the ground is crucial, and an arched back could also mean some hips/ankles mobility issue. The spine should keep that angle throughout the first part of the lift.
Check Rippetoe out.

That's why I stopped deadlifting, even before breaking my knee. The desire to go heavy was far beyond my technical ability, and I didn't have the time to learn it properly.
HTH.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: nik at work on August 10, 2016, 11:14:25 pm
Cheers Nibs. I suspect I have a fundamental lack of hip flexibility and I'd probably be wise to follow your lead and stop rather than snap...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on August 11, 2016, 08:30:25 am
In addition to the Mark Rippetoe recommendations - watched this one last night which I'd never seen before, a very good all round tutorial.


The side angle is very useful in ascertaining what Nibs said about keeping a flat back.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToXDFLXL1uo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToXDFLXL1uo)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on August 11, 2016, 08:40:02 am
Great video indeed. Lifting your chest is the single best advice I've read about lifting anything from the ground. Most effective. I've noticed a big difference.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on August 28, 2016, 06:24:38 pm
i entered a local strongman comp today and one of the events was a timed deadlift. 130kg and a minute to do as many as possible. i won with 23 but bloody hell it nearly finished me. my hamstrings were hurt. i did 18 i think in 30 seconds but i knew i needed to get more than 22. as soon as i had 23 i stopped.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on August 28, 2016, 07:26:53 pm
Sounds like you just won a crossfit event.  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on August 28, 2016, 08:53:38 pm
 :lol: oh no
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: SA Chris on August 29, 2016, 11:19:11 am
Did that win you the whole event?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on August 29, 2016, 09:58:40 pm
Did that win you the whole event?

no,i came second which im happy with. the guy who won was a biggun and strong
i have a vid someone recorded on face book but not sure how to post on here. will try though
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on October 01, 2016, 06:33:57 pm
This has been a hard time coming but finally got 3 x BW last night  ;D

Haven't looked back since switching to sumo in January, but didn't expect to pull it out the bag yesterday, after a long week and man-flu.. I'll put it down to the "beast effect" - always a strong vibe when big Eddie's in the gym:

Props to this thread - would never have thought of DL otherwise..

https://vimeo.com/185146731 (https://vimeo.com/185146731)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on October 01, 2016, 09:15:27 pm
Amazing achievement.

Where did you learn to do it with a bridging stance? It looks harder (and maybe not as beneficial for climbing?)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on October 01, 2016, 10:09:36 pm
Thanks Shark - def a proper LTG achieved; might try to do some climbing now!


This is sumo stance - I avoided it for the first couple of years of lifting cos I though it looked weird, bad for your knees and bad for your feet if you drop the weights on them!

Sumo's also supposed to favour leg strength, and it's my feeling that the reason why so many guys from here have gone in strong with DL is due to years of building strong lats/back, so I thought my chicken legs would suck at sumo..

I did squat-stance for a while ala Ed Coan, then I realised that the majority of lighter powerlifters lift Sumo (inspired by guys like Johnny Candito and Owen Hubbard) so experimented and decided I really liked it - it's much kinder on the back and I was lifting PBs the second time I tried it. It's more technical than conventional DL, with less opportunity to grind through if technique isn't spot on. Also conventional rapidly bulks up your midriff (think of any big lifter!) so you can say goodbye to your waspish climber's waist - sumo generates a more balanced shape..

Crossover to climbing? Weeeeell probably not enough to justify goin for 3BW (maybe effects up to 2.5) - when I first started DL I thought there was a rapid effect on my climbing, making me more static, and oddly allowing me to hang around in roofs endlessly despite only doing low reps..
I totally believe posterior chain exercises are 10 times more useful to climbing than core exercises focussing on abs
Perhaps the most useful effects have been things like maintaining testosterone and energy levels while getting older, and teaching me how to really try hard - I don't believe anything tests your ability to "want" as much as forcing through a max DL!

Sumo vs conventional for climbing - meh I wouldn't have thought there was much in it. Sumo does feel like bridging (it's called "spreading the floor"), however I don't think legs are often the weak part of the chain for climbing - why do you think conventional might be better?

Cheers anyhoo
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on October 01, 2016, 10:20:57 pm
however I don't think legs are often the weak part of the chain for climbing - why do you think conventional might be better?

Thought conventional way would be better training for standing up on holds especially when on undercuts but like you say anything over 2.5 x BW is probably going to have negligible crossover for climbing.

Amazing effort. I'm inspired and will have a go at Sumo when I start dabbling with deadlifting again.   
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Scouse D on October 01, 2016, 10:30:51 pm
Inspired by that. I've been deadlifting for about three months since breaking my ankle last december. Up to 2BW so 168kg but seem to have plateaued. When I try heavy I tend to suffer with burning sensations in lower abs telling me to back off(time for a belt?) Might play with sumo stance, looks interesting.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on October 01, 2016, 10:59:38 pm
Cheers Scouse

I kept putting off getting a good belt until I was "good enough" to feel I was worthy - stupid
As a result I put my back out 3 times in the first year :thumbsdown:

I've now got one of these: http://www.zuluglove.com/new-2016--powerlifting-belt--detonator-lever--jet-zulu-pro-series--xl-86-p.asp (http://www.zuluglove.com/new-2016--powerlifting-belt--detonator-lever--jet-zulu-pro-series--xl-86-p.asp) and haven't had another back problem - it didn't raise my PB but has give me loads of confidence not to back off.

Ab pain is unusual tho - hopefully just muscular, but DL is a great mechanism for getting hernias!
The belt gives you something to push your abs against, so generating core tension..

Don't fear the plateau, work it; I was stuck at 180 for 2yrs, then broke through by: cycling several weeks at 5s then 3s, then 1s, experimenting with technique (accept a weight drop when you do) then ingrain the technique you like. Some swear by accessory exercises (block lifts, RDL, deficits etc) but at our level prob just bulk DL is better, much like bouldering being the best training for climbing up to a point.

For guys new to Sumo I quite like this summary:
https://www.elitefts.com/education/7-step-guide-to-learning-the-sumo-deadlift/ (https://www.elitefts.com/education/7-step-guide-to-learning-the-sumo-deadlift/)

Also vids of Candito, Hubbard, Coan, Jaroslaw, Belyaev, Posdeev (by which time you'll begin to realise just how weak we all are!)

bw
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on October 02, 2016, 11:55:42 am
Nice one Measles, strong. At the risk of being pedant, can I advise you not to lean backwards after the lock off? Just stand tall, chest up, squeeze glutes.
That hyperextension with that load is looking for trouble.

Shark, sumo DL is what is mostly used in powerlifting comps, because the wider stance gets you lower and avoids some mobility and technical issues at the hips and ankles that can make the first part of the pull very hard, especially for clearing the knees.
So it's probably the best stance to pull the hardest.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Scouse D on October 02, 2016, 04:37:09 pm
Burning feeling is just minor strain I think and just needs a couple more days of rest. I think its down to hip mobility issues so sumo could be a good bet
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on October 02, 2016, 11:18:25 pm
Cheers nibs - good point about hyperextension, it is supposed to be a bad thing; every guide to DL advises against it (altho many comp lifters do it anyway to make sure the judges have no doubt the lift has gone up)


Sumo is by definition easier: bar travels less vertical height = bar gains less potential energy = you use less energy to do the lift
However its horses for courses for the biomechanics - it clearly doesn't suit the big guys, after all half a ton went up conventional
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on October 02, 2016, 11:24:52 pm
And nibs, dude I just realised you actually started this thread that's changed my life (never thought of DL before this thread)

You're responsible for 4 yrs worth of pain, frustration, injury, chaffing, embarrassment, expense and the indescribable joy of deadlift PBing

Thanks man
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Duma on November 06, 2016, 09:27:26 pm
https://medium.com/@nntaleb/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577#.n56bvfidq
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on November 06, 2016, 10:27:49 pm
And nibs, dude I just realised you actually started this thread that's changed my life (never thought of DL before this thread)

You're responsible for 4 yrs worth of pain, frustration, injury, chaffing, embarrassment, expense and the indescribable joy of deadlift PBing

Thanks man
Only just seen this!
Cheers, you're welcome!
 :great:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Scouse D on November 07, 2016, 11:07:00 pm
Lost form yesterday going heavy and injured my mcl. Think my foot went too straight and knee collapsed a little inwards, only every so slightly. Little click then pain. Not super painful today but there all the time. gonna be a couple of weeks to get better. Careful folks.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on January 12, 2017, 05:37:53 pm
1st go at deadlifting for a long time and managed 1x200 which i was happy with.
going try and work up to a p.b

also changed my grip from alternate facing to both facing back.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 12, 2017, 11:38:30 pm
Lost form yesterday going heavy and injured my mcl. Think my foot went too straight and knee collapsed a little inwards, only every so slightly. Little click then pain. Not super painful today but there all the time. gonna be a couple of weeks to get better. Careful folks.
Hadn't see this. How is it going now? What shoes were you using?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Scouse D on January 14, 2017, 08:45:37 pm
Still sore but ok. Haven't lifted since. My shoes were definitely too soft, normal trainers so they could well have been the issue
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 15, 2017, 11:01:02 pm
Good to know it's healing.
I haven't lifted in a couple of years now, my left knee doesn't give much confidence. But I'm planning some sort of comeback - although in other form. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 17, 2017, 11:02:13 am
Back in the game thanks to Smelly Fox who also has the psyche. For the first time in 12 fucking years I'm going to the gym with someone who is keen to be there and keen to train. Makes quite a difference from having to motivate myself on my own time after fucking time.

The upshot of all this is that after less than 10 total gym sessions and 4 weights sessions, I've got back to 160kg, but this time without straps (but with alternate hand grip and liquid chalk), and slightly easier than last time. I almost made 170 but couldn't lock it out. Fatboy fox is already on 170, but then he's gotta get 180 for the 2xBW. Anorexic sport climbing weenies we are fucking not.

Going along with this, I'm training slightly better indoors (have been nursing a tweaked wrist all this year so have been pretty restricted), and feeling a bit perkier overall.

Nibble, a question for you: The lifting rack with the handles perpendicular to the double bar set-up.....isn't it a bit weird that the handles are raised up off the centre of the bar?? I thought that rig would be a nice way to avoid grip issues, but I don't fancy missing out on the first few inches of a normal lift.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 17, 2017, 11:58:59 am
Nibble, a question for you: The lifting rack with the handles perpendicular to the double bar set-up.....isn't it a bit weird that the handles are raised up off the centre of the bar?? I thought that rig would be a nice way to avoid grip issues, but I don't fancy missing out on the first few inches of a normal lift.
If you're referring to my marvelous trap-bar, well, being marvelous it features double handles, two are raised (they work wonders for your lower back) and two are normal (level with the bar).
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/267/32740177016_462ac01067_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RT8XYC)trap bar (https://flic.kr/p/RT8XYC) by Nibile (https://www.flickr.com/photos/70381658@N00/), on Flickr

 :smartass: :smartass: :smartass:
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 17, 2017, 12:05:14 pm
As far as avoiding grip issues goes, the neutral position of the wrists helps a lot, but it doesn't specifically help your grip. It's only more natural.
The greatest benefit of the trap bar is that it avoids the most crucial part of a regular deadlift, i.e. passing the knees. Depending on body geometry, this can be very tricky and dangerous for your lower back because you tend to lean forward.
Avoiding this, you're allowed to pull more safely (I can assure you that that bar didn't feel any lighter than a normal bar yesterday...), and most of all, you can pull more fastly. You can also do jump lifts (yes, I am a nutter), and the mighty farmer's walk, which is the Holy Grail of full body work.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 17, 2017, 01:55:37 pm
Cheers....unless I hallucinating or mis-remembering, I'm sure the trap bar at the local gym doesn't have the level grips? Did a quick google and such bars seem to be rare but do exist.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 17, 2017, 02:01:32 pm
Hey you're lucky to have a gym with a trap bar!
I am positive that I may have the only trap bar in my region!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 23, 2017, 06:09:37 pm
165! This may have something or indeed everything to do with watching Pumping Iron recently. Not that I was aiming to get pumped, kept it to 15 reps total (3x120, 3x130, 2x140, 1x150, 1x160, 1x165, 1x160, 3x100), then did a sub-15-total-rep session of bench for antagonist work, then various short sets of +15-25kg weighted pullups, leg raises, and running warmdown. I may have also let out a little squeaky power growl doing the 165...

Question tho. This is at my regular gym (the one with the stupid trap bar without the level grips). At other gyms, where the weights bars are slightly thicker, have a rougher grip, and also the weights rotate very easily, I struggle to do the same weight. How big a difference should the bar type make?? And yeah they're both the same weights....the spinningness is pretty prominent though, that's why I started using a mixed grip.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on February 23, 2017, 09:22:12 pm
This week I returned to the deadlift fold after about a year off.


Around that time I peaked at the mythical 2xBW and used to think nothing of 5 x 100kg sets as part of my ramp up to peak weight. On Weds I did 3 sets of 10 x 50kg and I've been walking round like the tin man ever since!



Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 23, 2017, 11:41:14 pm
The main difference between a normal bar and a trap bar is, obviously, at the knees.
So, depending on your body geometry and proportions, it can make little to great difference. Someone with long legs, long torso and relatively short arms will take great benefits.
25% of bodyweight seems a lot though.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 24, 2017, 08:56:51 am
Another great benefit of the trap bar, that can translate into an "easier" lift, is that it's a flexible tool, that can tailored to various needs. It can be a quads-predominant excercise, a squat variation, or a conventional deadlift.
When I was going for 2xBM with normal bar, due to poor technique I used to feel most of the work done by lower back. I tend to straighten the legs to early and do some sort of Romanian Deadlift. After the first session I thought I my muscles were going to rip my lower back vertebrae out.
Now I don't have to adapt my body to the bar, passing the knees is not an issue and I can concentrate on pulling. I feel my hamstrings and glutes worked and, most importanatly, my upper back.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 24, 2017, 06:31:09 pm
Hey!
Wow, that's a big difference. Not factoring the mental aspect, I'd say that you should refine your conventional deadlift technique, most of all.
Another key could be this: as I said, the trap bar is really flexible, and adapts to your needs when lifting. It could be that you shifted to a more quad predominant position, thus taking advantage of the shorter leverage of your legs. The long torso is a disadvantage.
My 2 cents.
I want to go lifting now.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 25, 2017, 12:35:04 pm
 :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 26, 2017, 10:07:33 pm
For once I managed to recover well enough from my "first gym session in ages" doms of death to actually have a proper trying hard squats session. I was still being careful, but managed 3 reps of 70kg back squats which js actually a personal best... 91% of bodyweight, so still pretty beginner. Also managed a person best bench press of 60kg which is nothing to write home about, but still felt pretty good. If I had access to decent weights without joining a gym (I.e.if TCA Glasgow had some)o's probably do it more often,  it as it is, that'll be me till next offshore trip.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 27, 2017, 12:59:45 pm
Glasgow club bromie. £8 or something to join, £5.50 PAYG. I use Gorbals and Bellahouston. Also fatboy fox and I have started going to Robroyston as it's closer to him. £7 PAYG. All of those have decent free weights. Going tomorrow if you fancy a sesh GETTING HENCH.

I remember E6 onsighter / 8A upwards climber T_B posting about doing 60kg bench on here so you're in good company doing my warm-up bench weight there.




Nibble, any thoughts on the normal bar grip type / rotation issue I was wondering about??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 27, 2017, 01:56:05 pm
Glasgow club bromie. £8 or something to join, £5.50 PAYG. I use Gorbals and Bellahouston. Also fatboy fox and I have started going to Robroyston as it's closer to him. £7 PAYG. All of those have decent free weights. Going tomorrow if you fancy a sesh GETTING HENCH.


Good knowledge. I'll pass tomorrow, but I'll keep it in mind.

Quote
I remember E6 onsighter / 8A upwards climber T_B posting about doing 60kg bench on here so you're in good company doing my warm-up bench weight there.

I warm up with 50% BW too...  :-*
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 27, 2017, 02:16:39 pm
Nibble, any thoughts on the normal bar grip type / rotation issue I was wondering about??
I think I had replied.
Could you please remind me what it was about?

P.S. I'm in the barely-bench-press-my-bodyweight at 65 kg...  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :weakbench: :weakbench: :weakbench: :weakbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 27, 2017, 02:37:00 pm
Question tho. This is at my regular gym (the one with the stupid trap bar without the level grips). At other gyms, where the weights bars are slightly thicker, have a rougher grip, and also the weights rotate very easily, I struggle to do the same weight. How big a difference should the bar type make?? And yeah they're both the same weights....the spinningness is pretty prominent though, that's why I started using a mixed grip.
If this is the question, I think it's the thickness that makes the lifet harder. Also the spinning could create some kind of instability or at least give you that sensation. Small changes with a big butterfly effect.
Be sure that the plates are of the same diameter, also.
On a more techinal plane: if you say that the weights spin a lot, it means that you transmit some kind of spinning force to them in the first part of the lift. I'd guess that you probably slightly pull the bar toward yourself, and this horizontal movement causes the spin.
With a perfect vertical pull the weights shouldn't spin anyway.
Maybe your set-up was slightly different, because of the grip? A thicker bar means some mm lower, and when at the limit it can make a big difference. Like lifting with a little deficit.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 27, 2017, 09:16:18 pm
Nibble, any thoughts on the normal bar grip type / rotation issue I was wondering about??
I think I had replied.
Could you please remind me what it was about?

P.S. I'm in the barely-bench-press-my-bodyweight at 65 kg...  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :weakbench: :weakbench: :weakbench: :weakbench:

keep at it,bench limit goes up really fast
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2017, 08:42:23 am
Cheers Mark! 
Unfortunately, despite having basically turned my house into a gym, I don't have a bench. I could try floor presses though.
Strangely enough, whenever I bench I always get horrible cramps in a small muscle just in my armpits. Must be my set up or the way I push, but they're terrible and happen every fucking time.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Dexter on February 28, 2017, 11:11:19 am
Cheers Mark! 
Unfortunately, despite having basically turned my house into a gym, I don't have a bench. I could try floor presses though.
Strangely enough, whenever I bench I always get horrible cramps in a small muscle just in my armpits. Must be my set up or the way I push, but they're terrible and happen every fucking time.

sounds like you have weak armpits to me. Better get training them
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 28, 2017, 11:23:06 am
I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2017, 11:42:50 am
sounds like you have weak armpits to me. Better get training them
That's what I needed to read!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 28, 2017, 11:44:41 am
I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha
I hope we're talking about deadlifting and not benching.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 28, 2017, 12:47:07 pm
I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha
I hope we're talking about deadlifting and not benching.

Haha yeah ,now that would be impressive. I've done 140 bench but don't do max very often as I've seen pec snaps. Rather just do a 10 x100 set. A lot safer and better for size
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 28, 2017, 01:52:10 pm
I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha
I hope we're talking about deadlifting and not benching.

Haha yeah ,now that would be impressive. I've done 140 bench but don't do max very often as I've seen pec snaps. Rather just do a 10 x100 set. A lot safer and better for size

You do remember we are actually on a climbing forum? Better for size...   :ras:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 28, 2017, 01:54:47 pm
Question tho. This is at my regular gym (the one with the stupid trap bar without the level grips). At other gyms, where the weights bars are slightly thicker, have a rougher grip, and also the weights rotate very easily, I struggle to do the same weight. How big a difference should the bar type make?? And yeah they're both the same weights....the spinningness is pretty prominent though, that's why I started using a mixed grip.
If this is the question, I think it's the thickness that makes the lifet harder. Also the spinning could create some kind of instability or at least give you that sensation. Small changes with a big butterfly effect.
Be sure that the plates are of the same diameter, also.
On a more techinal plane: if you say that the weights spin a lot, it means that you transmit some kind of spinning force to them in the first part of the lift. I'd guess that you probably slightly pull the bar toward yourself, and this horizontal movement causes the spin.
With a perfect vertical pull the weights shouldn't spin anyway.
Maybe your set-up was slightly different, because of the grip? A thicker bar means some mm lower, and when at the limit it can make a big difference. Like lifting with a little deficit.

Cheers beast, that's what I was interested in. Pretty sure the weight diameters and general positions are the same, but I will check my lifting motion when I go down next.

Also YEAH mark s, aren't you supposed to be getting back into climbing?? ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 28, 2017, 03:53:18 pm
calm down the pair of you.
i will still be able to climb, i could never justify doing the things i used to again and i really dont think i could get back to my climbing weight now. even back then the best days out were ticking the classics and they are still there for the taking.
also if closer to my limit i could enjoy them a tad more.

bit like when i had  a subaru, to drive it at a speed when you felt close to the edge. you were going far too quick and if it went wrong you have no back up plan.
on hvs e1 i will have a rope back up plan to get me out of the shit if i fall. that makes sense to me anyway
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 28, 2017, 06:49:09 pm
Just for fun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrds63LDSiQ

Felt good today, was pleased with the finish of the lift. Yeah I know my back bends, quite possibly more than it should, I will be working on that. This was with a spinny bar but not as rough a grip as the other ones. Maybe I was just getting used to it before.

60kg bench felt a bit tiring today, well doing a set of 5 after working up to 80 and back did anyway. Just managed 100kg squat, decent depth but real wobbly. Felt quite smooth on 90 but my squat-fu was lacking after the deadlifting. Will try it first next time. 22kg military press too, another skin of teeth job.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on February 28, 2017, 07:33:53 pm
Just got home and the lass says, out of the blue: "The New Kelvin Hall gym has just opened and they're doing free membership for PAYG" Today's the last day, so signed up!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 28, 2017, 08:19:55 pm
It's an omen from the gods of  :strongbench: !
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 28, 2017, 10:30:10 pm
Just got home and the lass says, out of the blue: "The New Kelvin Hall gym has just opened and they're doing free membership for PAYG" Today's the last day, so signed up!

wait till the muscles start getting bigger,you will be hooked. those pb lifts will start coming soon
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on February 28, 2017, 10:34:28 pm
Just for fun:



60kg bench felt a bit tiring today, well doing a set of 5 after working up to 80 and back did anyway. Just managed 100kg squat, decent depth but real wobbly. Felt quite smooth on 90 but my squat-fu was lacking after the deadlifting. Will try it first next time. 22kg military press too, another skin of teeth job.

try knee straps for squats,they do help. gives a good amount of support. i find you dont need to go silly heavy on squats. i will do 140 max but go past horizontal.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on March 01, 2017, 03:54:35 am
Just for fun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrds63LDSiQ

Felt good today, was pleased with the finish of the lift. Yeah I know my back bends, quite possibly more than it should, I will be working on that.

Good work!  :strongbench:

..but do be careful about keeping a straight back..
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 01, 2017, 08:32:56 am
Strong lift Fiend. I agree on the back flexion.
I'd also take those shoes off. They seem to have a thick and soft sole, two things that you definitely don't need while lifting. Thick sole means that you're higher over the bar, and the softness can be a knee killer.
Far better barefooted.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on March 01, 2017, 11:33:24 am
When I was a member at "The Gym" - another PAYG chain - I wasn't allowed to take my shoes off, they came across and said it wasn't allowed.


I'd read that lifting in Converse was better than in running trainers as even then they've got a thinner / less sponge-y sole.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on March 01, 2017, 12:20:17 pm

I'd read that lifting in Converse was better than in running trainers as even then they've got a thinner / less sponge-y sole.

I use inov8 f-lites, which are excellent in that regard.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 01, 2017, 12:20:44 pm
Yes, absolutely. The high-top Converse model has been a staple for lifters for decades.
Nowadays, with around 80 Euros you can buy a serious pair of lifting shoes.
For any dedicated lifter they are a must.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 01, 2017, 06:54:25 pm
Thanks guys, I will work on the back thing, more inspired to have a better lift than a heavier lift ATM. Did quite well bouldering indoors today too.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 07, 2017, 02:04:34 pm
MARCELLO FERRI 500 KG DEADLIFT!!!
http://youtu.be/bsXbnDboZRQ
I thought I'd seen it all. This guy's channel goes beyond all imaginable levels of disgrace, self-illusion, and lack of reality sense. Gold-fucking-mine.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 07, 2017, 02:39:27 pm
What the whatting what????

That makes the entirety of the "bring out your dabs" thread look like the perfect execution of movement.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 07, 2017, 03:11:08 pm
It's brilliant, isn't it?
The Only person whose lifts end lower than the start!!!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on March 07, 2017, 04:22:49 pm
Lifts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tommytwotone on March 07, 2017, 04:36:02 pm
Well in a fit of optimism I did my normal sets of 50kg deadlifts as part of my workout today, and then for a laugh chucked 80kg on and managed a couple of reps. So chucked 100kg on. Managed 2 singles!


Need to try to stick to my standard workout plan now and not get dragged back into trying to increase my 1RM...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on March 07, 2017, 05:04:28 pm

Need to try to stick to my standard workout plan now and not get dragged back into trying to increase my 1RM...

Why?

Increasing your 1rm (or at least, working your 3 rep max at 3 sets, say) will give you the best strength increase, for the least hypertrophy. Aka, the best of both worlds.

Anything else will be making you heavy!
[emoji12]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: the_dom on March 07, 2017, 06:39:24 pm

Need to try to stick to my standard workout plan now and not get dragged back into trying to increase my 1RM...

Why?

Increasing your 1rm (or at least, working your 3 rep max at 3 sets, say) will give you the best strength increase, for the least hypertrophy. Aka, the best of both worlds.

Anything else will be making you heavy!
[emoji12]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 protocol is a good way of upping your 1RM without ever training it.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 08, 2017, 07:12:05 am
Finally actually put some deadlifting into my session (back offshore again). First few sets I felt like I wasn't keeping my spine flat at the start, then realised, like Fiend, I was wearing shoes with a substantial heel. Next set I went barefoot and it felt much better. Worked up to 90kg for a set of 5 (1.2 x BW).

I read online that the bar should always touch your legs - is this right? Sounds nasty!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 08, 2017, 08:59:24 am
I read online that the bar should always touch your legs - is this right?
No, it's not.
The bar should always travel in a vertical line from ground to finish. Depending on body geometry and proportions, it can be tricky to pass the knees while maintaining this vertical path. Hitting the shins is a classic, it means that you have too much back pull and not enough leg and hips extension. In my case this led to basically doing RDL instead of normal ones. My legs at the moment aren't strong enough. But it should be a smooth combination of hips and knees, it's very very difficult.

As for the arched back, one good clue is to think "chest high".
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 08, 2017, 09:06:46 am
On a side note, I finally bought some straps to be used when lifting.
I hope this will give my forearms some rest, so that I can climb effectively also the day after lifting.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 08, 2017, 09:10:21 pm
straps on good, anything over 120 and i use the
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 09, 2017, 08:39:18 pm
I have just unearthed a major weakness... I am dreadful at dips! I can only manage 5, maybe 6 in a set. Oh well, something to work on!

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Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on March 09, 2017, 09:10:09 pm
I have just unearthed a major weakness... I am dreadful at dips! I can only manage 5, maybe 6 in a set. Oh well, something to work on!

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

You are not alone. This always shocks me when I fitness test people.
Even otherwise strong, fit, climbers struggle with this.
It would only be an issue, in climbing, from an imbalance point of view; unless you struggle with topping out or mantles.

Muscle ups are the answer!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 10, 2017, 09:42:20 pm
Muscle-ups as training for dips??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on March 11, 2017, 10:23:18 am
Sheez!
Did I really need to add [emoji12]?

Or 🤡?

Mind you, if you train up to Muscle-ups; Dips are a doddle...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 11, 2017, 10:59:25 am
In fact, I've just read through the entire first half of this thread and I've realised, that despite always having a feeling/belief/self image that I'm at the stronger end of the "general strength" spectrum for climbers operating at my level, I'm weak as shit!

Previously I'd always put this down to it "being the first session in ages" or whatever, but I've been reading around a number of benchmarks etc. and it just doesn't stack up - my self image is wrong.  :lol:

E.g: Last year I did a Fr7c+ (30 deg overhanging, short and burly) (video if you're bored (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiekZygpM7SAhWmL8AKHUFfD8MQtwIIHzAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2F174742867&usg=AFQjCNFYK_LXdqpM0HEzCVogdd0L477E-A&sig2=s8ufLTy1FBU6T9fQlqw8Lw))

And a F7c, a 7b in a few goes. Etc. Didn't do much in the way of bouldering really.

I've had some gym sessions recently where I've felt rested and reasonably "warmed up" for a session (as in recovered from previous DOMS and feeling ok). BW = 76kg

All I can do (set x reps) is:

Pull-ups (fairly strict, some momentum but not "kipped" - kind of power pull-ups): 3 x 10
Dips: 3 x 5
Bench: 3 reps @ 60kg (pyramid up to there)
Back Squat: 3 x 70kg  (pyramid up to there)
DL: 3 x 100 kg (could not get 110kg off the floor) (pyramid up to there)
Military Press: 5 x 35 kg (didn't try any harder)

I have recently joined the gym 5 mins from our flat, so I'm going to try to add a day or two a week of basic stuff like this to address some weaknesses.


I moment of realisation....
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 11, 2017, 11:42:05 am
Interesting!!

Quote
Pull-ups (fairly strict, some momentum but not "kipped" - kind of power pull-ups): 3 x 10

That does seem astonishingly weak for someone who is climbing well (surely Dumbuck 7c+s are the benchmark of simply being strong??), at 76kg you're not doing it by being an anorexic wee shite either.

Couple of Qs:

Can you give some campus / deadhang benchmarks?? (sneaking suspicion this will reveal all)

I presume your general level of fitness is high (running benchmarks)??

Why do you need to improve the weights at all?? You climb good, somewhere your "climbing strength" must be good, do you really need to deadlift any more*??


(* apart from deadlifting being cool, of course!)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on March 11, 2017, 12:01:08 pm
Also, you might be falling into the Hypertrophy trap, looking at your quoted reps.
Keep the resistance high and the reps low, to improve strength for minimum Hypertrophy.
Calculate your predicted 1RM for a given exercise (Epley is fine for this as long as you test with a resistance which you fail at at less than 10 reps).
Workout a suitable weight in the 80-90% 1RM range and do 3x3's. if you do each exercise once or twice a week and increase the load by ~10% each week, you'll be awesomely strong without being too heavy.


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Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 11, 2017, 12:03:59 pm
Wow, re-reading that was some inconsistent use of grade nomenclature!  All of those were sport routes.


Can you give some campus / deadhang benchmarks?? (sneaking suspicion this will reveal all)

Not right now,no, not done any of that in ages. I'm back onshore on Monday so give me a list of what you want benchmarked and I'll give it a go. I can do 2 handed mono pull-ups no problems on the beastmaker....I know this as I did some for fun last time I was Ratho.
Quote

I presume your general level of fitness is high (running benchmarks)??

I'm pretty shit at running, but that's through particular local endurance issues from never having done any previous running. I guess I could do a 10k in around 50 mins or less. I can go up hills quite quickly.
Quote

Why do you need to improve the weights at all?? You climb good, somewhere your "climbing strength" must be good, do you really need to deadlift any more*??

Oh, I don't really. I just noticed the last few times I've been out winter climbing, or if I'm doing some more burly/thuggy trad it's taking it out of me more than it used to.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 11, 2017, 12:10:39 pm
Also, you might be falling into the Hypertrophy trap, looking at your quoted reps.
Keep the resistance high and the reps low, to improve strength for minimum Hypertrophy.
Calculate your predicted 1RM for a given exercise (Epley is fine for this as long as you test with a resistance which you fail at at less than 10 reps).
Workout a suitable weight in the 80-90% 1RM range and do 3x3's. if you do each exercise once or twice a week and increase the load by ~10% each week, you'll be awesomely strong without being too heavy.


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So weighted pull-ups instead of more reps? I'd been aiming for more reps for more climbing crossover. Just so you don't think I'm plateauing/not improving despite training....that's not the case at all. This is just "where I'm at" after a whopping 6 gym sessions in the last 2 weeks.

For the last 4 years almost all of my exercise has been actual climbing (more recently the bulk of this indoor bouldering). Nothing structured. I'm very much a "dabbler" when it comes to weights, but I'm thinking of doing some more to offset the inevitable decline since i'm coming up 34, and also no because I am longer able to do the volume of exercise I was doing while living in cham (life, availability, weather etc.)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 11, 2017, 04:34:32 pm
I'll say it again: putting up lean mass is hard. With a good diet, i.e. no junk food, you can train at will and you won't put up much at all, unless you go with monster sets of 15+ moves.
I personally found good results by training speed. Instead of adding lots of weight, I now only do explosive movements and it really helps.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 11, 2017, 07:31:01 pm
Speed is a good idea, gonna start mixing that in. Most of my 1RMs are pretty slow.

Went for squats first today to try to get a good session of those. I put a soft medicine ball beneath where my arse would go down to and that seemed to get my thighs a few degrees below horizontal. Worked up to 1x100, then 2x2x100, getting down to touching the ball each time, so I was happy with the form.

Managed 2x45kg overhead press but felt pretty sketchy as my right shoulder is so unstable / prone to impingement, I also concave my back too much. Then did deadlifts after and they felt desperate, only got to 2x140 but was focusing on keeping my back straighter.

Lots of core work and some dips / pull-ups / rows too.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 11, 2017, 07:34:38 pm
Fatonious, we need benchmarks for:

Campussing medium rungs.

Campussing small rungs.

Number of consecutive laps on TCA foot-on campus ladder single rung pulls (1-2-3-etc)

Number of consecutive laps etc etc alternate rung pulls (1-3-5-etc)

Max hang on smallest Beastmaker edges.

Max hangs as above with 5/10/15/20kgs added.

Number of pull-ups on smallest Beastmaker edges.

Max hang on Beastmaker 30' slopers.

Number of pull-ups on Beastmaker 30' slopers.

Max hang for a front lever.

Number of horizontal leg raises.

Number of horizontal leg raises on a campus rung.

Anything else I can think of that would be either likely to injure you or cause an arrest for public indecency.

All numbers must be checked in triplicate, formatted correctly, and presented in a way that will be statistically satisfactory to slackline (LOLOLOL good luck with that OMG).
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 11, 2017, 08:18:18 pm
 :w00t:

I'll sue you if a tendon pops!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on March 11, 2017, 10:57:07 pm
for climbing you really need to watch how much weight you put on. my strength is a massive amount more than when climbing lots

seated o/h 80x8 ,bench 120x6 ,deadlift 130x23 (220 1 rmax), sqaut 140x6, bent over row 100x8

but with that strength can over 3 stone of weight and i know find climbing hard and get pumped very quick. flexabilty is horrendous but thats down to me not stretching i guess.

lifting weights is very addictive as seeing your strength go up and your shape change keeps you doing more.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 12, 2017, 11:52:56 am
6 reps, 8 reps, pffft sounds like crossfit to me. Post some more 1RMs - you might as well top-trump everyone properly  :)

I'm trying to avoid too much addiction and keeping sessions short and reps few.

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 15, 2017, 01:40:39 pm
Mods - maybe split this?

Fatonious, we need benchmarks for:

Campussing medium rungs.

13579

Campussing small rungs.

1234567981011 & 1357

Number of consecutive laps on TCA foot-on campus ladder single rung pulls (1-2-3-etc)

2 sets (from 1 to top, dropping off and starting again) plus a set to 7

Number of consecutive laps etc etc alternate rung pulls (1-3-5-etc)

Just shy of 2 sets

Max hang on smallest Beastmaker edges.

BM2000 small edge - 27 seconds

Max hangs as above with 5/10/15/20kgs added.

10 kg = 14s
15kg = 12s
20kg = 12s
got scared, didn't want to go any heavier


Number of pull-ups on smallest Beastmaker edges.

7 strict

Max hang on Beastmaker 30' slopers.

33 seconds
can't currently hang the 45s. 8 seconds with nessle


Number of pull-ups on Beastmaker 30' slopers.

8 strict

Max hang for a front lever.

Zilch

Number of horizontal leg raises.

12, but stopped due to lower back not feeling to nice

Number of horizontal leg raises on a campus rung.

I think you were just making shit up by this point

Anything else I can think of that would be either likely to injure you or cause an arrest for public indecency.

All numbers must be checked in triplicate, formatted correctly, and presented in a way that will be statistically satisfactory to slackline (LOLOLOL good luck with that OMG).

All done once in one session, so the later stuff might be a bit under.

Also did 2 x pullups +20kg.

And???????? What's the fiendish verdict?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 15, 2017, 02:16:47 pm
Verdict? You didn't get it checked by slackline, so all invalid (actually I haven't seen him for a while, if there's a correlation between those things, well done).

Number of horizontal leg raises on a campus rung.
I think you were just making shit up by this point

Not at all! There's one on the back of the TCA fingerboards, I find it quite satisfying to do the leg-raises off there. Going to guess 10, based on your "rung" performance being at least 80% of your "bar" performance.

Verdict? The entirely bloody obvious, your finger strength and your ability to do arm-based exercises using fingerholds instead of rungs is vastly higher than certain contemporaries who may or may not be stronger at bar / weight based exercises, you may +karma me for predicting that if you like. (P.S. try doing first joint pull-ups on a comfy edge, I bet you get the same as your 3x10 bar pull-ups or very close).

Conclusion (also predicted): don't give a shit about bar / weight based performance in terms of "being stronger" for climbing or indeed anything related to climbing, only do it for fun or to get hench like mark s.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 16, 2017, 11:21:51 pm
Verdict? You didn't get it checked by slackline, so all invalid (actually I haven't seen him for a while, if there's a correlation between those things, well done).

Number of horizontal leg raises on a campus rung.
I think you were just making shit up by this point

Not at all! There's one on the back of the TCA fingerboards, I find it quite satisfying to do the leg-raises off there. Going to guess 10, based on your "rung" performance being at least 80% of your "bar" performance.

Verdict? The entirely bloody obvious, your finger strength and your ability to do arm-based exercises using fingerholds instead of rungs is vastly higher than certain contemporaries who may or may not be stronger at bar / weight based exercises, you may +karma me for predicting that if you like. (P.S. try doing first joint pull-ups on a comfy edge, I bet you get the same as your 3x10 bar pull-ups or very close).

Conclusion (also predicted): don't give a shit about bar / weight based performance in terms of "being stronger" for climbing or indeed anything related to climbing, only do it for fun or to get hench like mark s.

Any thoughts on which of these represents a climbing-related weakness that I should work on?  I'd say my BM bottom rung performance is fairly good for my level?? Is it?

I think my campus & front lever are pretty weak. Now here's the rub - would working on these carry over a lot to actual climbing improvement, or just an improvement at campussing & front levering?

I think I'm going to try to throw in half a hour of stuff like this at the end of my normal session. Maybe some 1 arm bottom rung with assistance to improve my 1-arm ability? 
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 17, 2017, 12:03:03 am
LOL I have no idea, for a 76kg lardarse they all seem very good - and consistent across the board - to me. Maybe the leg raises are a bit low but then you don't get up Dumbuck routes by having a weak core. In short if you find you have weaknesses in your climbing, train them??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fultonius on March 17, 2017, 12:39:49 pm
75.3kg thank you very much. Big turd.

So, no easy gains dammit. I was hoping I could half arsedly flail at some aspect of my climbing for a few weeks and get up to Fr8b...

I keep wondering about blowing some cash on a day's coaching so that I can at least focus my meagre training motivation on something that matters. Or I could just continue punting about as always...

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Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on March 25, 2017, 09:16:18 am
Very good lifting session yesterday, mainly aimed at conditioning, sadly, because as I pulled the first rep I felt I was on fire. Anyway I didn't change my program and went for 68 kg x 10, x 12, x 15 and x 20. Fuckin brilliant.
Everything was made even more pleasing by measuring the plates and discovering that they are smaller than "regular ones", so I've been lifting from a 3 cm deficit basically.
YYFY.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on May 03, 2017, 07:54:56 pm
The fun and games of a 150kg deadlift, when you can't fit enough plates on the bar (which bent alarmingly).
9 reps. (3x3).

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170503/ce61cf0173d8b564575142a641593bbe.jpg)


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Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: rodma on May 04, 2017, 06:35:56 am
The fun and games of a 150kg deadlift, when you can't fit enough plates on the bar (which bent alarmingly).
9 reps. (3x3).

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170503/ce61cf0173d8b564575142a641593bbe.jpg)


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Mentioned much earlier in the thread,  check out the load rating on your thin bar.  Not worth the risk.  The thin York bars can only handle about 125

Good work on the lift though
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on May 04, 2017, 08:15:43 am
It is a SWL 125. But I knew that. I'm a bit cheeky and calculated the actual... ish, with a few assumptions.
Like assuming it was Grade A ms. It's 25mm round bar and I assumed centre of effort for the load etc. Did it on a fag packet, so it must be right...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on May 04, 2017, 09:16:20 am
3xBW is gonna be a bit harder when your BW goes up by 5kg by having half a snapped weight bar permanently embedded in your head  ;)


Was at the gym the other day for general stuff, didn't want to do anything too heavy for me, so instead did 3 x 10 x 100kg fast deadlifts (heeding what people have suggested about explosive power), with dips and leg-raises in between as a rest. That was pretty tiring and my upper back had good doms afterwards.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: skelf on May 04, 2017, 12:09:26 pm
York do a standard "beefy bar" that is rated to 150kg, that my plan once i manage to bend my standard bar. (and it will bend rather than snap).
I recon you have got to have 25 kg + of leeway on rated numbers before things are going to bend.

I thought about going Olympic but i'm using that as a measure of whether i have lost the climbing plot and am now a lifter...

Vinyl plates are the devils work tho !


Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on May 10, 2017, 11:34:50 am
164kg
And overloading the bar without bending it? Put it in the middle.
Iknow it's 2.5 inches higher than it should be and my torn MCL is so heavily strapped I can hardly bend my knees; but when did sense ever ever come into anything I do?

https://flic.kr/p/UtpyVr


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Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on May 10, 2017, 01:41:38 pm
Matt, no offence meant, but I strongly disapprove what you're doing.
Please stop and get a regular Oly bar. Please.
Oh, and go barefoot, those shoes seem to be far too soft.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on May 10, 2017, 02:45:48 pm
Matt, no offence meant, but I strongly disapprove what you're doing.
Please stop and get a regular Oly bar. Please.
Oh, and go barefoot, those shoes seem to be far too soft.

Ahhh, this requires money, of which I have none.
And the shoes are hiking boots, so very stiff, I can't do anything in bare feet anymore; the arthritis in my foot is too bad. I had a pair of Converse I used for lifting, but it's just too painful.

I am old and poor, but unable to accept it...[emoji12]
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Sasquatch on May 10, 2017, 06:20:39 pm
Matt, no offence meant, but I strongly disapprove what you're doing.
Please stop and get a regular Oly bar. Please.
Oh, and go barefoot, those shoes seem to be far too soft.

I second this.  Start a gofundme for a real bar!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on May 16, 2017, 08:09:01 am
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialTestosteroneNation/posts/10154988409926117 (https://www.facebook.com/OfficialTestosteroneNation/posts/10154988409926117)
Maybe a repost but still worth it.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on May 21, 2017, 11:23:04 am
I was thinking of starting to do deadlifts again but with an underhand (supinated) grip as it would be more relevant to the move that is shutting me down on the Oak which finishes in being stretched out on an undercut.

Anything I should be aware of (such as elbows exploding) ?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on May 21, 2017, 12:02:08 pm
Lift faster ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Muenchener on June 20, 2017, 08:30:37 pm
So, multiple reps. Completely put the bar down in between, or just touch & go again?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on June 20, 2017, 08:48:56 pm
So, multiple reps. Completely put the bar down in between, or just touch & go again?
Obviously both.
Resting the bar on the ground eliminates even the slightes stretch reflex from the muscles. Every rep is just like the first rep.
Touch and go - no bouncing - is good for the flow and for max reps PB.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on July 06, 2017, 09:00:14 pm
Psyched by the arrival of the new plates, I managed a very good deadlifting session, after a lot of time.
Ramped up to 128 kg, all lifts first go. Probably a bit too much volume and not enough rest before the last lift. 120 felt easy.
The did 120 x 3 and 108 x 7.
Very happy. Nothing to make Eddie Hall shit his pants, but I'm happy. I would love to hit 3 x BW some day, but it would probably mean sacking every other training for a couple of years. Can't see it happening anytime soon.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on July 06, 2017, 10:58:07 pm
I would love to hit 3 x BW some day, but it would probably mean sacking every other training for a couple of years.
Good lifting nibs

1 hour once a week most weeks for 3 years (from whenever you started the thread!) I was never comfortable with it interfering with other training and tbh can only psyche myself up for that much effort once a week anyway! - however all the other training you do is so intense you might run up against CNS fatigue - I feel totally drained for days after that 1 hour.. Your psyche is way higher than mine tho
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: alx on July 06, 2017, 11:35:56 pm
I was thinking of starting to do deadlifts again but with an underhand (supinated) grip as it would be more relevant to the move that is shutting me down on the Oak which finishes in being stretched out on an undercut.

Anything I should be aware of (such as elbows exploding) ?

Try bicep curls, supine pull ups or planche push ups with your hands at your waist.

It might be a good idea to try and isolate the specific parts of the body to understand what the weakest link in the chain is.  Then match it to a specific exercise, then come back to a compound expertise such as simulating the move once your strength has improved
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on July 07, 2017, 09:26:35 am
Cheers Measles!
I'm quite happy also because I'm lifting with a 3 cm deficit. As you know, it makes a big difference.
I'd say that probably the main problems for me would be lack of time and desire to progress in many other fields (snatch, clean, clean and press, core tension, board climbing, finger strength, finger strength, finger strength), especially finger strength.
Fitting everything in requires a serious planning that I don't think I'm capable of, but let's see... I've been training according to my feeling and psyche for the last five years or so, I don't know if I can go back to having a fixed schedule.
Thanks for the psyche.
It's surely worth trying.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on July 07, 2017, 10:40:01 pm
Love deficits - for peeps who think normal DL just isn't challenging enough!

Anything I should be aware of (such as elbows exploding) ?

Sorry for slow response Shark - double supinated grip is very rare and a bit odd; the obvious danger is biceps tears/ biceps tendon ruptures, as there's a deep temptation to start curling the bar when you're going all out..
However mixed grip is extremely common and if its move specific you could mix it so that you're supinating with the arm thats used for the undercut - I personally think that would have a good crossover effect to the kind of tension you need on a stretched undercut... Still need self discipline not to bend at the supinated elbow; cf in the vid below for the deadlifters it's always the supinated side that blows..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZgxkE-2QAw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZgxkE-2QAw)

Wish I hadn't watched that vid now - need to get it out of my head before next Thursday!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: alx on July 07, 2017, 11:41:16 pm
Dear god why did I watch that before bed. :sick:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on July 09, 2017, 09:25:15 am
Of course I wouldn't worry too much about blowing tendons, as most of these tears are likely related to these guys being allegedly jacked up to the fuckin eyeballs  :blink:

Kanayama, Gen et al. “Ruptured Tendons in Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Users: A Cross-Sectional Cohort Study.” The American journal of sports medicine 43.11 (2015): 2638–2644. PMC. Web. 9 July 2017. And many others..
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: yetix on August 08, 2017, 12:19:03 pm
Looking to include deadlifts in my training in the near future. However, I don't really want to injure myself with poor form, does anyone know of a pt/individual who can assist with mastering good form to begin with?

thanks
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: jshaw on August 08, 2017, 12:33:54 pm
Hi Yetix, saw your post on the other thread about board climbing in manchester. I'm manchester based and have been using the rockover gym for general weightlifting, deadlifting etc. for the last couple of years.

They have an Olympic bar and a good set up for learning to deadlift, happy to meet up and share what I've learnt.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: yetix on August 08, 2017, 01:28:30 pm
hi jshaw I've pm'd you - thanks :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 15, 2018, 10:32:37 am
170kg ! Solely due to wearing a Napalm Death vest.

Incidentally I did my hardest onsight at Ratho the day before, despite it being cold and generally having a sluggish bloaty week due to stomach issues.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: shark on January 15, 2018, 10:36:06 am
170kg ! Solely due to wearing a Napalm Death vest.

Incidentally I did my hardest onsight at Ratho the day before, despite it being cold and generally having a sluggish bloaty week due to stomach issues.

Well done.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 17, 2018, 10:29:06 pm
 :dance1: :strongbench:
Video?
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: lagerstarfish on January 17, 2018, 11:15:26 pm
170kg !

nice one

I too have been lifting 170kg, but this is far less impressive due to my body mass

I recently failed at 2xBM, but didn't injure myself - not sure where the enthusiasm came from that day, but it can stay in the box until I've done more practice

(also managed a 36kg standing shoulder press - yeah, I know right)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 22, 2018, 10:57:32 am
:dance1: :strongbench:
Video?

Dude, it wasn't pretty. My form was shocking, and everything about my expression said "maximum SHART". If I try it again (may not happen), I will try to get a video....

Wish I'd got a video of the purple 7b at Ratho tho. That was pretty exciting.

P.s. Nice one lagers :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 31, 2018, 08:20:03 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTN416dyGCU&feature=youtu.be

Less sharting, different death metal vest, but still bad form. I do focus on good form on lower weights but just push hard on 1RMs. And I only go for it if my body definitely feels good (first 170 was just due to that - session a few days after I stopped at 150 as it felt bad).
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on January 31, 2018, 10:10:46 pm
Good lifting tune - what is it??
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on January 31, 2018, 10:27:06 pm
Belphegor - Conjuring The Dead, from the album of the same name - see the full track in Nnnnnoisy metal thread :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on January 31, 2018, 11:01:00 pm
It's not so bad, it's more of a Romanian than a pure deadlift. There's not much quads activation. It's fine.
On another side, SACK THOSE TRAINERS!
Soft shoes like those are dangerous for your ankles, knees, hips and spine, with over 100 kg on!
Buy lifting shoes if you're into it, or a pair of minimalist shoes (old school All Star), or lift barefoot.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on February 01, 2018, 09:12:25 pm
Like these SABO Russian bad boys:

(http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/bellerophon23/ukb/0F204A29-0331-40B4-8A11-85BDA0C14788_zpsogeigyyl.jpeg)

No belt Fiend?? You must have faith in your back not exploding... I belt up for everything >100kg and never regretted spending £££ on good quality (Zulu detonator)

Good lift  :) ditto lagers, 170 is heavy - now the fireman has “retired” from the gym we need some more peeps to fly the flag

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: teestub on February 01, 2018, 09:17:17 pm
Do you use straps above a certain weight too Measles?

What's the deal with belts? I don't use one, but I'm trying to get a stronger posterior chain for climbing, not lift as much as possible.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on February 01, 2018, 11:40:04 pm
Do you use straps above a certain weight too Measles?

I did briefly use straps, and found maybe a 10kg uplift with them at the time. I stopped because I thought I might compete in powerlifting one day and you can’t use straps for unequipped lifting..
Straps stop grip being the weak point, however with good technique I do think for most climbers grip is not likely to be the weak link.. I use an alternating grip to neutralise roll-out, and allow my fingers to open up a little, rather than overgripping with a full fist; some peeps use the agonising hook grip - I’ve lifted 250 off blocks so confident my grip’s ok, and I suspect open handed strength converts well to bar grip strength for climbers, ie I wouldn’t bother unless you’re convinced your grip lets your DL down.. (also it will reduce the training value for open hand climbing strength)

What's the deal with belts?

Belts protect your back; I had endless problems with back spasm and prob small disc herniations/sciatica when I started lifting. I told myself I wasn’t worthy of a proper belt until I’d lifted 200, using some shitty neoprene back support - just stupid really - belt didn’t give me an uplift, but just bags of confidence to go for it; even with clean technique DL puts an enormous torsional load on your lumbar spine, and the slightest loss of concentration/form can fuck you up..
I’ve said before I thought DL transferred well to climbing post chain strength up to about 2.5BW; beyond that it’s not made any difference, but that’s still plenty of weight to fuck your back with!

I'm trying to get a stronger posterior chain for climbing, not lift as much as possible.

That how it starts... then the disease gets under your skin - everyone wants to lift as much as possible  ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: teestub on February 02, 2018, 08:36:45 am
Thanks man, will wad you when I have posted enough!

Yeah 2.5 is what I’m interested in getting to, although I’m sure that’s what everyone says to start with!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 02, 2018, 09:34:19 am
Nah everyone says 2XBW cos it's a neater equation, only beasts like Measlez go much further....

Straps: When I first used straps I found it added maybe 20kg to my lift. When I first used alternating grip with a bit of chalk i found it added......20kg to my lift. Alternating feels weird at first tho. I find a comfy bar helps quite a bit, girthy with a decent but non-aggressive gnurl (sp).

Quote
No belt Fiend?? You must have faith in your back not exploding...

Hmmm. Maybe. Not sure I like relying on faith. It's a bit like slackline and his feverish faith in the omnipotence of current science.....something could change...

Okay so I have worked up pretty slowly from 60/80kg to 160kg over....4 years maybe?? In that time I have had some mild aches / doms after lifting but no tweaks twinges nor major stiffness etc. So I guess I have worked up to it. As I say I also do keep a much straighter back on lighter lifts and focus on that, and am pretty careful not to push hard if my body doesn't feel good. It's a good question tho, I feel a bit uncomfortable answering "well it's worked fine so far".  Anyone else got any feedback on that??

Nibble I *might* try barefoot just for you, but I don't feel any bad effects from the shoes, and the back thing is more of a concern. About the lift form, when should more quad activation occur?

P.S. Will wad measlez on your behalf mr tub, not that it makes jack shit with new board..........>:(
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 02, 2018, 09:40:53 am
Just looked through this thread to find my timescale, it was 80 > 160 kg in 3 years.

Also found some gems like this:

Quote from: measles 23
Jesus its quite intense - is it normal to feel a bit dizzy after? The bumpy boys reckoned it might have had something to do with forgetting to breathe for several minutes from the shock..

Also the gym scene takes some getting used to - its a bit much to go from feeling like the fat cnut at the crag to being the 7 stone (I wish..) weakling - I could taste the pity - I'm sure next time they're gonna strap me to the bench and force feed me whey and 'roids

Plus the glory days of Mark S doing 180kg lifts and warning us it could be quite addictive.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on February 02, 2018, 08:52:02 pm
Happy memories!

I guess a steady progression like that is much better for your back - I think I lifted 180 after only 3 or 4 sessions, but then every time I lifted it I put my back out so ended up plateauing at 180 for 2 yrs.. only really started progressing when I got a good belt and switched to sumo..

Belt is not just protective; it also provides something to brace your core against.. there are a couple of big lifters who go beltless and call their core their belt, but these are guys with 60 inch waists!

I’ll wad you guys back for:

1. teestub for mentioning posterior chain, for it is the key to the mystery of climbing core strength - 90% of videos and articles on core only talk about anterior abdominal stuff like leg raises and L sits and the like, in the belief that core is about getting your feet back on steep rock. But who the heck can’t lift their legs up from hanging, even if they need some swing??? Core for me is about creating the tension when your feet are back on, and that is posterior chain all the way (fingers and shoulders too s’pose) And what is the kingmaker exercise for posterior chain??  (actually prob skwat but DL does very nicely)

2. fiend for realising that heavy metal + heavy metal = muthafuckin heavy metal squared :punk:

3. Its a DL love-in innit xx
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 03, 2018, 09:21:02 am
Nibble I *might* try barefoot just for you, but I don't feel any bad effects from the shoes, and the back thing is more of a concern. About the lift form, when should more quad activation occur?
Hey beast!
First of all, I'm positive that soft shoes are a big risk. You may not notice the diffecrence because you're too busy not collapsing under the bar, but your feet, ankles, knees, hips and lower back are undergoing lots of micro adjustments and movements because the sole is unstable. Your body has to compensate the instability and that's no good. You don't want to find yourself, in a few years from now, bicep-curling on a Bosu ball, don't you?
Try barefoot (a bit extreme) or with flat and hard soles shoes. Then you'll look up in the sky and you'll say: Forgive me Lord for I doubted Nibile's word.

Then: disclaimer, I can't do it. I can't deadlift properly and I will probably use only the trap bar. Anyway, as many of us, you shoot your hips up before even leaving the ground with the bar. This allows us to clear the knees in an easier way. I've read lots on the deadlift setup and execution angles, and the key is that during the first part of the lift, there should be equal extension at the knees and hips, with the torso (shoulders) going up vertically without changing its setup angle to the ground. Then, after clearing the knees, there should be hip hinge and all posterior chain activation to the lock.
It's as difficult to perform as beautiful to watch.

Finally: belts. I think that lots of people - including myself when I started moving plates around in a gym, aged 15 - misunderstand the aim of belts. I used to think that a belt should provide back support, in order not to round the lower back. I was wrong.
If this were the aim, belts would be slim on the back and stiff and high profiled on the front, to avoid you crouching forward under load.
The aim of belts is to help create core tension via internal pressure. Instead of simply holding the breath and stiffening all core muscles, with a belt the lifter actually pushes his abs out against the belt, to increase internal pressure.
This is why I think that most lifters shoudn't use it, firstly because they don't know how to use it properly, then because they're not even close to creating enough internal pressure on their own, this meaning that they shouldn't train with certain weights.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 03, 2018, 09:32:50 am
I’ll wad you guys back for:

1. teestub for mentioning posterior chain
Sorry guys, couldn't reply earlier.

No, that's not one of the articles that I've read, in any case as OMM said, it makes sense to avoid such a movement pattern in a warm up!
On the matter of specificity, or real world function, my experience is that the kind of core tension required for climbing is far more complex than the one that can be developed with front levers or windscreen wipers or even ab-wheel.
All these excercises train the ability of "pushing" yourself up against gravity, and do not place a serious effort on the legs.
In climbing on very overhanging terrain, this kind of ability - although crucial in terms of pure strength - is not enough, because the specific climbing effort requires that we stay rigid but actually pushing our body down on the footholds, rather than pushing it up against the rock.
So, down to the hips it's mostly the frontal part of the torso that bears the effort, but from the hips down, it's all the posterior chain, from erectors (that are involved in the levers anyway) to the glutes, hamstrings and calves.
I haven't read it all either, but judging by the pics enlightening the muscles (the abs), it could be that it completely overlooks glutes and hamstrings.
I've found out, by training specifically core tension on my board, that staying put on steep terrain with small feet involves tons of pulling with glutes and hamstrings, along with abs.
Abs work only the lower torso, stopping at the pelvis, but then you have your legs that have to stay tight to maintain contact with the footholds. And abs don't move legs.
And the usual demonstrative video. Glutes and hamstrings engage to push the pelvis up after putting the foot on the foothold.
Core training on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/106872789)
8) 8) 8)
 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 03, 2018, 10:34:03 am
Cheers for the further info guys :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 04, 2018, 07:48:29 pm

2. fiend for realising that heavy metal + heavy metal = muthafuckin heavy metal squared :punk:


 ;D I must confess I was listening to hard dnb and gabber at the gym today, but I was wearing a Behemoth vest at least  :punk:

I rewatched your 3BW video (scrolling back through the thread), that is some serious effort put in, nice one.

Nibbles I went for an easy session today, sets 5 x 100, 120, 140 and back again, I was focusing more on a straighter back and driving with the legs, which worked for the lower two weights but 140 is when it starts getting hard for me and I lose form a bit. Will keep working on it. And, *bonus* once I remembered I did the 2nd lot of 140 and down with just socks on, and it felt a little bit better, just felt like I could feel the balance better in my feet. Nothing major but I will keep doing that if only to stop you telling me off when I post a 180 video in 5 years time.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 04, 2018, 08:46:17 pm
 ;D  ;D
I've got new lenses and can read the small lines!
Glad it helped!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: petejh on February 22, 2018, 03:33:54 pm
Can anyone on this thread point me to research that shows a long-term increase in testosterone, or GH / IGF, as a result of heavy lifting?

All I can find are studies that show an acute increase i.e. at time of lifting, 15mins post and up to 60 mins post max. Thereafter a return to baseline levels. And some studies showing a temporary decline for a few days after a heavy lifting sesh.

Nothing I can find points to any increase beyond 60 mins.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on February 23, 2018, 10:22:36 pm
Yeah nibs I prob got that posterior chain shit from you in the first place!

Sorry Pete no idea, sounds like you’ve done more of a literature search than I have...



This:

https://youtu.be/YmtdEmGJvK4 (https://youtu.be/YmtdEmGJvK4)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 24, 2018, 08:51:41 am
Yeah nibs I prob got that posterior chain shit from you in the first place!
;D
Nevermind, I was just being a bit pedantic!
Video is nice.
I can't deadlift at the moment, I'm sticking to power cleans and going heavy on the farmer's walk. Let's see if I can start again next year.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on February 24, 2018, 04:41:11 pm
I can't deadlift at the moment
Lore I get the feeling you’ve spent the last 6 years of this thread slowly circling around the issue, gathering great depths of knowledge, mastering loads of ancillary exercises and just waiting, biding your time until everything is just right, then one day your body will tell you “it is time” and you’ll walk into your nearest gym, lift 250kg off the floor and calmly walk out again!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 25, 2018, 11:18:01 am
 :lol: :lol: :lol:
That would be awesome, but I can't really see it happening! I'd love to work my way up to 3xBW though. With the trap bar I'm currently playing a little bit with setups: when I do Farmer's I lift from blocks, handles at the knees, trying to feel the difference between a regular deadlift stance and a posterior chain focused one. Shins bent, shins vertical. It's cool, I think my quads are still strong, when I go back to deadlifts I must learn to loft off with quands rather than just posterior chain.
At the moment, despite not climbing, all my training is somehow training oriented, so I'm leaving my quads behind, also because they've always been very reactive to training, both in terms of power and mass. I injured my right toe a few weeks back, because of this: I was doing a set of high jumps as a final recruitment before my last power cleans set, did the first couple of jumps and was feeling bouncy, so went to an all out effort in order to touch the ceiling of the garage. Did it, but forgot to land properly and with flat shoes I broke my toe...
It's hard because one one hand I'd love to just concentrate on lifting really heavy, on the other hand I want to climb my board projects and I'm still improving in finger strength, so I'm riding the wave and don't want to drop it.
It's both fun and strange, because I find unexpected improvements on previous unexpected improvements, like, for instance the 1,5 cm edge one arm hangs. Just one year or so ago I could't do them, and I was strong on the board nonetheless, so...
I can't wait to be able to climb "strong" again. Or at least to try hard! I'll probably have the movement skills of a nuclear carrier ship, but I have to start again at some point!
I's fun because it seems that in the last couple of years all my closest (climbing) friends drifted to lifting (work, family, etc.), so instead of booking hotels in Chironico we buy plates on eBay and have lifting sessions instead of board sessions! Very proud none of us bought a bicycle. Well one did, but it's gathering dust after two rides.
Anyway, I miss climbing. A new gym just opened one hour and a half away from Siena, a friend of mine went and told me it's big, nice and full of easy problems, so maybe I can start from there, hoping not to find myself trying one movers on crimps in overhangs after 15 minutes!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 25, 2018, 03:52:54 pm
This is what I'm after at the moment.
https://youtu.be/c26Yo5SuMEU
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 26, 2018, 10:25:01 am
I's fun because it seems that in the last couple of years all my closest (climbing) friends drifted to lifting (work, family, etc.), so instead of booking hotels in Chironico we buy plates on eBay and have lifting sessions instead of board sessions! Very proud none of us bought a bicycle. Well one did, but it's gathering dust after two rides.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Get back on those easy problems tho!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: tomtom on March 12, 2018, 12:38:33 pm
Huuuurgh...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/12/lift-starting-strength-help-body-stay-young-weightlifting

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on March 13, 2018, 09:24:06 am
I think you'll be a pretty strong woman when you finally get on with the weightlifting, tt :)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: yetix on August 14, 2018, 02:08:35 pm
Recent finger injury has meant I've been working on my DL and BP a lot again recently! DL is upto 137.5 (2.15*BW) and feeling super psyched about it! Nice to have to something to work at through the injury!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on August 14, 2018, 03:33:52 pm
Good effort you skinny fucker! Definitely helps with work-around-injury positivity.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: gollum on August 18, 2018, 12:33:38 pm
Managed 172.5 Sumo at 68kilos this week and was really please. Not been deadlifting for big weight for a while but rather have been doing triples and doubles at around 150 both Conventional and Sumo.

Have been doing rack pulls for weight however and have found that that has helped massively on the lock out and can definitely feel my back engaging.

I've never really got on with a belt although I do own one for big sets of deficits and use straps over 160k as not really trying to train my grip with this.


Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: yetix on August 26, 2018, 01:29:26 pm
fingers slowly recovering and DL has been upped to 147.5kg  ;D
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on August 26, 2018, 08:28:29 pm
Managed 172.5 Sumo at 68kilos this week

2.5bw = Very Bon.

The magic balance of big lifting while maintaining a sensible climbing weight.

Sumo all the way for lightweight lifters who don’t want to fuck their back...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 11, 2019, 12:13:13 pm
180.....just about. Didn't fully lock back shoulders but I was fully upright. Had been feeling ropey with my tummy for a couple of days but on Sunday when I went to the gym after a decent brunch I just knew I was on good form. I think I can repeat it and will save the celebrating until the shoulders are locked back.

I'd much rather be deadhanging not deadlifting but my elbows are still fucked. Weights seems okay apart from lifting plates onto squat height bars - I don't do curls and rows ofc tho.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 12, 2019, 09:16:36 am
Last Sunday I tried again a test I read on T Nation, that I have tweaked a bit.
60% of 1RM, 5 reps for 12 EMOM sets.
I could have done better, luckily I didnt try. Full body DOMS.
Beautiful.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: sheavi on February 12, 2019, 09:25:24 am
Not surprised you're aching!  T-nation recommends 70% 1RM and only 1-2 reps.  Good work.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 12, 2019, 10:08:49 am
Cheers Sheavy, the test I tweaked is this one:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-3-squat-and-deadlift-challenges (https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-3-squat-and-deadlift-challenges)
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 12, 2019, 10:51:15 am
Quote
Set a timer for 12 minutes and load the bar with 60% of your 1RM.

Perform as many reps as possible during the 12-minute span, shooting for at least 20 reps. If you don't get 20 good reps, decrease the weight.

Perform each rep as a single, resetting between each rep and pulling with perfect form. This means taking the slack out of the bar, keeping your hips back, your back flat, your chin down, and driving your heels into the earth.

Perform each rep with max speed from the floor – leg drive is key.

Yeah that sounds well easy, I'd say tweaking it by making it 3 times the amount of reps in total would be a better challenge - and much better DOMS :).  I'm gonna stay well clear tho cos "add tons of muscle to your posterior chain"....I don't need any more bulk around my midriff.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on February 12, 2019, 11:51:16 am
Cheers Sheavy sheavi the test I tweaked is this one:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-3-squat-and-deadlift-challenges (https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-3-squat-and-deadlift-challenges)
Sorry.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on February 12, 2019, 03:47:03 pm
Motivation.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtyNp5MHNVe/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=4cw27dbbseqd (https://www.instagram.com/p/BtyNp5MHNVe/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=4cw27dbbseqd)

I’m doing sets of 3 @ 2xBw (170kg) between Lattice circuits.

(OT)
Before become a Lattice assesor, next week. Yea!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: sheavi on February 12, 2019, 07:43:38 pm
Cheers Sheavy sheavi the test I tweaked is this one:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-3-squat-and-deadlift-challenges (https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-3-squat-and-deadlift-challenges)
Sorry.

Ha ha, that's very polite  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: measles23 on February 13, 2019, 10:04:31 pm
180.....just about

Fuck yeah!

180 is the first true heavy lift; it’s like the 7C of lifting..

Then +12.5 per grade after that I reckon  :yes:

Because yes obviously you can grade lifts every bit as realistically as you can grade deadhangs...
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on February 14, 2019, 01:48:25 pm
Thanks beastles23! I'm not really celebrating yet as I don't know how legit it was....I always feel satisfied with the shoulders shrugged back, not sure why I didn't go the extra couple of inches. The fact I could do it at all.....I think I can repeat it and will be more hyped then. It's a funny one as it's quite psychological for me.....I just have an instinct about how my body feels and whether I can go that heavy, and I think it's pretty wise to listen to that.

I had a Misery Index vest on and was listening to rolling drum'n'bass from Break on Commercial Suicide records.

I definitely don't want to get too carried away tho, it's easy to get hyped up with the weights but really it's just passing the time while my elbows heal.

I like ur grading system tho. It's the closest I'll ever get to 7C itself  :lol:

Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: joel182 on March 10, 2019, 04:59:48 pm
475 kg deadlift on a very bendy bar... gotta be worth at least 8C?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RacP3CN0Wkc
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Rob F on March 28, 2020, 12:59:53 pm
Pure motivation...

https://youtu.be/BuzeyFIYMSM
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on May 02, 2020, 09:26:40 am
Edited.
Sorry wrong thread.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: erm, sam on May 02, 2020, 10:53:23 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mng5v3OEzA

For live stream of Thors 501 attempt today
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: moose on May 02, 2020, 01:50:45 pm
A primer for non specialists here:

https://www.theringer.com/sports/2020/5/1/21243727/world-deadlift-record-espn-hafthor-bjornsson-the-mountain (https://www.theringer.com/sports/2020/5/1/21243727/world-deadlift-record-espn-hafthor-bjornsson-the-mountain)

My favourite part, about the stress of Eddie Hall's record breaking lift:

Hall makes the lift without a hitch, but as he rises, so does the pressure inside of his body. His nose fires blood, and to showboat, he holds the weight at the top of the lift for an extra handful of seconds. When Hall comes down, he collapses. Later, he said he was in and out of consciousness for weeks, and that he had trouble remembering his kids’ names.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on May 02, 2020, 05:41:28 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mng5v3OEzA

For live stream of Thors 501 attempt today
Watching it live, I have to say that it's quite thrilling.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: teestub on May 02, 2020, 06:13:01 pm
Did Hafthor just challenge Eddie to a fight?!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: moose on May 02, 2020, 06:36:26 pm
The article I linked mentions Hall taking issue with the conditions of the lift and some social media beef:

It’ll also take place from his gym in Reykjavik, on his own time frame, without any of the other inconveniences that come with open strongman competition. In a way, it’ll feel like a sprinter trying to set a world record by running a 9.57-second 100-meter dash alone at a local track. Hall, who set his record at the World Deadlift Championships competing against a group of other athletes, has taken issue with the circumstances surrounding the lift. He and Bjornsson have developed a YouTube beef.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: mark s on May 28, 2020, 10:50:36 am
Did Hafthor just challenge Eddie to a fight?!

My money on eddie.
I dont have any time for hafor. He comes across as a mard arse and his little team of yes men are a bit too much
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Nibile on May 28, 2020, 01:47:49 pm
Yes.
And then after all he's just a half Thor.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Liamhutch89 on May 28, 2020, 02:00:18 pm
As impressive as these feats are, it is very unhealthy. For starters, the amount of steroids these guys need to be taking is astronomical (their use of steroids really isn't up for debate), as well as extremely high calorie diets and high bodyweight, let alone the stress on the joints from actually lifting!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cheque on April 08, 2021, 07:05:01 pm
Lifted 120kg for the first time since my accident just now. Not quite 2xBW as I’m a few kilos heavier now  but still absolutely psyched!  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on April 08, 2021, 07:56:44 pm
Great stuff cheque  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: dunnyg on April 08, 2021, 08:48:47 pm
Beast! :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Oldmanmatt on April 08, 2021, 08:53:27 pm
 :dance1:

Very cool.

With the tinge of envy that the last time I was 60kg, I was 13 years old (I too am “a few” kilos heavier now).
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Mike Tyson on August 24, 2022, 11:10:25 pm
I've just started with a PT at the gym this month. One day a week to begin with, tonight's was the 3rd session. I think the years of climbing, followed by years of forestry has given me a decent baseline to start with. Terrible inefficiencies in my technique, but managed 145kg tonight. Pretty pleased with that truth be told. Then dropped to 100kg for some rep work. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself, and it's very good to have a decent trainer to help me get started.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Wellsy on August 25, 2022, 03:30:06 pm
I didn't know this thread existed! Great effort Mike that's some serious pulling!

I've done some very light deadlifting on the odd occasion, for knee rehab. Prior to my knee being injured my 1 RM was 155kgs, but not with great form. A couple of days ago I went heavy for the first time in a while and got a 140kg lift, which felt great, and my back was straight as a board, which was very pleasing.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cheque on August 25, 2022, 05:55:01 pm
I didn't know this thread existed!

 ::) You’ll be saying you’ve never read the powerball (https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,7489.0.html) one next.
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: cheque on October 19, 2022, 07:02:19 pm
Did 2xBW today, also a new PB.  :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Fiend on October 19, 2022, 10:50:35 pm
 :strongbench:
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Wellsy on October 19, 2022, 10:56:19 pm
Nice one!
Title: Re: Deadlifting
Post by: Mike Tyson on October 20, 2022, 11:20:13 am
My deadlifting has not gone entirely to plan! Well I was making decent progress after hitting 145kg, dropped weight and doing lots of working sets. But alas, on Sunday my back went pop. Likely a herniated disc, so for now, I’m doing naff all. Was annoying as was 2nd rep in 3rd set at 110kg, all was going so well until then……

Top effort Cheque, strong 💪🏻
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