UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => power club => Topic started by: shark on October 14, 2018, 06:48:00 pm
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11.1-2 Average 156.3 (0.2lbs up on last week)
M. Noon. Malham with Jerome. Worryingly sunny on drive up but fortunately overcast in Dales. On crag wind. Chilly. Mint! Only Mina, James, Holly Murray + partner, Andy Tappa and John Thornton there. Cons two or three times. Oak Go1 warmup on bottom section felt good Go 2 Climbed thru to executing throw but missed horn Go 2 & 3 fell at undercut by third bolt with foot slippages. Warm up walk to top of cove. Go 4 climbed really well (at last) got horn but not in best place Go 5 climbed well again (felt so good) and had a sudden drain of power as doing throw and although got horn perfectly didn’t grasp it Go 6 got to undercut by third but tired and bad middle finger protested in sidepull above so came off Go 7 tried undercut to top but when got horn elbow protested (has been feeling tweaky for a few weeks) so let go and sticked up to strip it. Good session. Felt great on last goes to be climbing well with minimal adjustments
T.
W. Tor 8.30 am start to beat the heat with Ben S. Whilst walking to base of Indecent I was startled by a loud “whoomp!” sound - assumed it was rock fall but it was a base jumper :o He landed safely near the river. Bit of a shock. Dogged up AM No wind, 6 degrees and rock really cold. Had to keep warming my fingers up but felt mint. By time I got on it for redpoint a diffrent story. Holds on Push Up had condensed so much I couldn't do it despite attempts to dry them. Tried to lead from Revelations belay but fell off after clipping bolt on headwall. Holds just too greasy so sacked it off. In meantime there was an accident on start of Call of Nature with some poor soul decking out who had to be stretchered off and away in an ambulance. Weird day. Decided to run away early whilst still in one piece rather than try Bens which was gopping.
PM Foundry Wave - first time for ages. Did the level 2's on teh steep bit. The middle ones took a bit of effort. Elbow protested a bit on a long crank on the yellow one but seemed to hold up ok
T.
F. PM Met James and Mina on catwalk. Just us there. Weather not as apocalyptic as forecast. Warm air temp but gusty and blowing in. Conditions OK but not mint. Cons to warm up. Several goes from ground but didn’t feel totally on it so I guess I still need two rest days rather than one. Also despite elbow rehab work it still felt sore which was both a distraction and I think preventing me from pulling as hard as I needed to. Current Whites bagged out but learning from past mistakes had a new pair with me in reserve. Didn’t manage any good links on the top either. All very demoralising.
S. AM Physio. Louise fitted me in at short notice. Typically excruciating and have marks to prove it.
S.
Things not going well with this season's Oak campaign. My progress has been disappointing and my elbow niggle has got worse. Have arranged to go back to Malham on weds but if this wet warm weather continues then I might already have had my last session on it for this year. It was good to be climbing well on it in good conditions on Monday and I certainly enjoyed that feeling.
I thought I had prepped for it well having done more volume over the summer and come back to it stronger but it doesn't seem to have made much difference, Perhaps I'm burnt out Ill still keep showing up whilst it is dry and as long as my elbow doesn't get any worse.
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M. Malham with Mina. Back on Bat and Dogs, good session doing links from the kneebars. Had a couple of minor foot sequence changes at the start of the traverse making it smoother and getting through the start faster. Managed to do the top in 2 halves going from the kneebars to matching the bird dish on Rainshadow and from there to the top. Felt like a good break through on consistently linking the first bit.
T. Malham with Mina. Spent the session focusing on getting slick on the Bat route boulder. Happy with all the foot sequence now and swaped to going straight to the jug instead of using the intermediate tooth. Linked it fully from the big sidepull 3 times, twice from pinch and intermediate and a few times from the first undercuts. Feeling solid on it again now, all down to the key karate chop beta to get the top RH well.
W. Went to see some friends in Sheffield, ending up going to The Works. Tired from 2 big days at Malham so just did some of the easy circuit problems, Ironbru and Wasps? But surprised myself by doing 1-4-7 in my current weak endurance shape.
T. Rest!!
F. Malham with Mina and Simon. Had one proper go from the ground, felt close to getting though BR boulder just fumbled top LH, then back to trying headwall links. Got a new highpoint from the knee bars, did the flick out of the bird dish but fell coming into RH shoulder.
S.
S. Malham with Mina. Warm up go went up to try some different beta at the end of the trav end I was falling on Fri, decided to lock up LH first to the sidepulls instead going in to the shoulder. New sequence worked way better on link and managed to get through to the big move on the headwall twice, close of the second go. Awesome to watch Mina get through that move and smash it out.
Another week of a lot of climbing and good scenes at the crag, massive progress on RBAD 2 weeks to try and get it done before we go to the RRG.
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New sequence worked way better on link and managed to get through to the big move on the headwall twice, close of the second go. Awesome to watch Mina get through that move and smash it out.
Worth braving the dodgy weather then! Good news on your breakthrough and Mina getting the tick
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M- Anston with TT and Dolly. Bit hampered by the leg, couldn't do moves that required keeping right foot on at extension or use right heels and I become more and more protective of it and stopped trying too hard.
T - System board, campussing, gymnastic stuff, core.
Probably overdid it after barely doing anything Monday, felt worked, felt good.
w rest
Th - More gymnastic play/practice, Half a Max hangs session then headed for a quicky at Burbage South. Poor choice, in shelter of the wind so a bit smeggy and the two problems I wanted to try, Violence and PMT, were both wet at the bottom.
F - Felt a bit dodgy, LI AeroCap and a bit of core
S rest/feel shite
S - bit better, started a fingerboard session but scores, and energy, were a bit low so sacked it half way through
Yet more gymnastic stuff, managed a Crane balance for over 20s and a handstand for about 2s.
10 mins core
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M - resting broken skin! Went to see the Dawn Wall in the evening; brilliant.
T - Fingerboard and core session. Repeaters went well. Am sort of freestyling with the routine at the moment on an assortment of edges, half crimping, and steering clear of pockets as I find them a bit tweaky. Going to look at add some weight this week, so if anyone has any pointers feel free to provide. Core was savage but worthwhile. Going to try and keep doing it.
W - Rest.
T - Went to the cliff for a brief session after work. Tried Exorcist with the intention of doing the Dolping Belly Slap -> DWR link first and then trying the second half. Surprised myself by getting through to the final move (also the hardest move) just before it rained. Would like to think the link won't take ages, but the full tick might be another matter. No intention of finishing up the short version as I can't touch DWR Left Hand, so will have to be the long version! Great moves moving onto the lip from DBS.
F - rest, then got pissed in the evening.
S - hungover, wet and humid. Glad I didn't try to go climbing.
S - Malham. Good conditions on the dry holds, which was a surprising amount after the Friday/Saturday deluge. Worked the crux of Predator on a toprope. Beta from Al handy for the move up to the dogtooth and got a much better sequence together for the traverse after that. Annoyingly couldn't try the sequence around 'the crisp' as holds were wet. Probably at the point of trying it from the ground just to get fitter on the rest, even though I have no chance of doing it this season unless we have a miraculous dry spell! Great watching Mina shrieking her way up Bats and Dogs; good effort!
Same again this week I think. Sore knuckle getting sore again which is a slight concern but don't want to stop climbing and it seems manageable. No guarantee that rest would fix it anyway based on last physio session.
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I'm really enjoying these Malham hold names that we're being treated to here. The Horn, The Dogtooth, The Bird Dish, The Crisp. I'd love to see an El-Cap style topo for the Catwalk with these monikers taking the place of tired old things like Camp 4, Dolt Tower, Wino Ledge, Glowering Spot etc.
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How about joining in by posting up what you’ve done this past week Will?
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I genuinely considered it for, I think, 1 minute this morning. I have a long list of boulder problems I would like to do/try this winter. However, my diary would basically look the same every week. One evening at the Depot, hopefully one day on the crag at the weekend. This would only highlight the futitility of my "training" - far too little of it to actually see any improvements, more just trying to mark time until such a time as I can try and improve.
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I'm really enjoying these Malham hold names that we're being treated to here. The Horn, The Dogtooth, The Bird Dish, The Crisp. I'd love to see an El-Cap style topo for the Catwalk with these monikers taking the place of tired old things like Camp 4, Dolt Tower, Wino Ledge, Glowering Spot etc.
You may get introduced to some more on future redpoints Will, if your lucky we can talk about 'the loaf'
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I'm really enjoying these Malham hold names that we're being treated to here. The Horn, The Dogtooth, The Bird Dish, The Crisp. I'd love to see an El-Cap style topo for the Catwalk with these monikers taking the place of tired old things like Camp 4, Dolt Tower, Wino Ledge, Glowering Spot etc.
See also: The crescent (raindogs), the tooth (seventh aardvark), and 'the sheffield block' (raindogs). Tbf not sure the latter is in common usage!
If moves are allowed their own nomenclature you could also include the windmill (raindogs) and 'the matrix' (zoolook). Perhaps most of these are just me though...
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I genuinely considered it for, I think, 1 minute this morning. I have a long list of boulder problems I would like to do/try this winter. However, my diary would basically look the same every week. One evening at the Depot, hopefully one day on the crag at the weekend. This would only highlight the futitility of my "training" - far too little of it to actually see any improvements, more just trying to mark time until such a time as I can try and improve.
I thought you had some home training set up Will, does your family schedule not allow for some quick snatched half hours or are you not siked?
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See also: The crescent (raindogs), the tooth (seventh aardvark), and 'the sheffield block' (raindogs). Tbf not sure the latter is in common usage!
Think my favourites are 'the crisp' (predator) or 'the Spock hold' (GBH)
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my diary would basically look the same every week. One evening at the Depot, hopefully one day on the crag at the weekend. This would only highlight the futitility of my "training"
That's why I stopped posting in this thread- my posts were basically just a diary of someone who was doing a bit of climbing and was more focused on other stuff than improving so it felt like there was no point sharing it.
the tooth (seventh aardvark)
:sick:
Rehab Diaries Week Eight
M- Rest. Tired from weekend. As I climbed on the Sunday rather than the Saturday at the weekend I didn't have an interim day to recover but it didn't feel quite as bad as I expected.
T- Gym. 30 minutes of intervals on bike, each a level harder than last week. I was on a recumbent bike this time as all the normal ones were taken (students back I guess)- not sure if this is harder or easier.
W- Rest. Not as sore as expected.
T- Rest.
F- Foundry autobelays. More progress- did my first indoor 6a+ since the accident and 8 complete pitches in total, plus 6 non-complete attempts. This is a huge improvement in session fitness. Also practiced dropping from the top without grabbing the strap. I've noticed that I don't often go for moves I think I won't do (I just drop off, often after pointlessly rechecking that I'm still attached) so my aim for the next session is to go for it no matter what and to trust that my check on the ground was sufficient.
S- Rest. Quite battered from previous day.
S- Rest. Drove my other half to a trail run which, unusually, started at midday. Stayed in the car the whole time due to foul weather. Just as I was putting my waterproofs on to go out and wait at the finish, she appears at the car window, coated in mud and holding the first place woman trophy! :2thumbsup:
Weekend weather, other commitments and no Match of the Day & MotD 2 to keep me up late meant that I rested more than usual this weekend- not ideal but I feel really good this morning, walking around very comfortably and feels like using the stairs at work is another bit closer to normal too. Hopefully more climbing this coming week.
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I genuinely considered it for, I think, 1 minute this morning. I have a long list of boulder problems I would like to do/try this winter. However, my diary would basically look the same every week. One evening at the Depot, hopefully one day on the crag at the weekend. This would only highlight the futitility of my "training" - far too little of it to actually see any improvements, more just trying to mark time until such a time as I can try and improve.
I thought you had some home training set up Will, does your family schedule not allow for some quick snatched half hours or are you not siked?
Fuck it. I'll join in. I haven't been that psyched to try anything of 7B+ or above on the boulders for a while now, but the desire has returned for this winter. There were a few of us having a weekly board session but that was instead of rather than supplementary to the Depot sesh. I don't really want to drop the Depot sesh as it is definitely more fun than the board. I might try to get two sessions in mid-week, but I have to try and balance that against what time I have to work on my guidebook project, for which there is loads of work to do.
Tue: Guidebook
Weds: Guidebook
Thurs: Guidebook
Fri: Depot sesh. Didn't eat properly before going out so felt hungry and low on blood sugar to start. Warmed up and did some purples. Looked around for a yellow that wasn't connies dependent (it was warm). Worked out the start and did it after a few goes. Got flapjack and felt better straight away. Mooched around and chatted to people.
Sat: Guidebook meeting
Sun: Wanted to go to Earl Crag but it was Earl Crag Connies(TM).
That's probably the most guidebook stuff I've managed in a week for an age, so normal service should be resumed this week...
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M: No tag rugby to let gammy knee heal
T: Arch. Good session. Warm-up then small amount of campus board. Onto one-arm max hangs, 7 sec hang with 2.5 min rest. 8 sets: -20kg, -16kg, -14kg, -14kg, -14kg, -14kg, -16kg, -16kg. A couple of sets of Ts, Ys and Is on the rings. Front lever holds, lock-off attempts.
W:
T: Arch. Fun session as fingers were feeling a bit tweaky. Climbed a load of problems including getting close to finishing off a hard white. Moonboard re-doing some of the problems I set and having a mini-comp with a mate setting a problem each
F:
S: My Birthday! Arch. OK session on boulders, repeated lots and got close on a green (6-8 ). Some board climbing and finished off with weighted pull-ups, worked up to a single rep of +44kg before calling it. :alky:
S: :sick:
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Tue: Guidebook
Weds: Guidebook
Thurs: Guidebook
Sat: Guidebook meeting
I presume this is a Yorks guide Will?
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There will be some Yorkshire stuff in it, yes.
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Power Club
Mon - monday session: BM 10"x6 (actually 5). Quite satisfied especially about mid2, index and ring monos and back2. Weights, tricep planks, clean and press, lock offs.
Tue - rest. Forearms exploding.
Wed - power clean 70% (56 kg) 5x6 very well. Pull ups 6x5. Lock offs 10/10 x6. Tricep planks, weights.
Thu - rest.
Fri - weights, lock offs, tricep planks 5x5; various loaded carries.
Sat - rest.
Sun - static/dynamic pull ups 5x5. Full thruster 5x5. Clean and press 5x5. Dumbbell complex, abs. Hard.
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Many happy returns Ross
I stopped posting because most of my climbing was at the crag that we don’t talk about anymore and i wasn’t really progressing anyway. Like cheque says if it’s just a diary of going climbing it’s not really worth sharing. But I’ve got into a bit of a hole that I want to get out of so I’ll start posting here again.
M-kettlebells, 24kgs. Max hangs up to +32kgs on small holds
T-10k run
W-works pinkles and max hangs up to +40kgs on small holds but only for 8s
T-9k run, works half arsed session. Couldn’t do the easyproblems on the mini mother. Maybe board the day after max hangs not a good idea
F-kettlebells, introducing the 32kg bell to the routine for 1/5 swing sets.
S-9k run, max hangs up to +32kgs on smallholds. Was utterly wasted though and failed the last set at this weight. Kettlebells 2/5 with 32kg
S-kettlebells 2/5 w/32kgs.
Max hangs are going nowhere. Not sure if I should carry on with them really. The aim had been to get finger strength back to standard and go crush. But for reasons I can’t work out I’m not getting back to standard at all and am finding the hangs very difficult. I wish I knew why...or rather I wish I knew what bit of all the randomness worked before.
Goals
Do my whole kettlebell routine with 32kgs at bodyweight of <64kgs. That’s 100 swings and 10 Turkish Get Ups in 16 minutes.
Get running fitness back and a reasonable time at Percy Pud.
Climb something off my wishlist this year. Top grit wishes are Piss (still!!!) Kidneystone and Soft on the G. But also Nicotine Stain, Conan and NTBTA. Anything on there would be grand.
Weight
67.5
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Climb something off my wishlist this year. Top grit wishes are Piss (still!!!) Kidneystone and Soft on the G. But also Nicotine Stain, Conan and NTBTA. Anything on there would be grand.
Sack off the Kettlebells then and get yourself on the Foundry Wave. There's a really good set of 6c - 7b fairly basic campussy problems on there at the mo that should get your guns blazing.
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Kidneystone and SOTG are about core and compression more than anything, certainly for the shorter climber anyway.
I stopped posting because most of my climbing was at the crag that we don’t talk about anymore and i wasn’t really progressing anyway. Like cheque says if it’s just a diary of going climbing it’s not really worth sharing.
Post whatever you want, unless everyone states goals it's got little context anyway. Not going so well at Griffs then? (images of the rest of PC recoiling at the word Griffs akin to the knights who say Ni)
Max hangs are going nowhere. Not sure if I should carry on with them really. The aim had been to get finger strength back to standard and go crush. But for reasons I can’t work out I’m not getting back to standard at all and am finding the hangs very difficult. I wish I knew why...or rather I wish I knew what bit of all the randomness worked before.
After years of being stale I've recently made gains by mixing up max hangs with short repeaters, which has aslo worked in the past. Basically day 1 I've been doing 10s hangs, day2 5 rep repeaters then take a couple of days before repeating. Also doing a lot more conditioning work, I'm not convinced it's always my fingers that are the weak link so trying to improve shoulder and general overall conditioning .
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I stopped posting because ....i wasn’t really progressing anyway.
The reason I started Fit Club then Power Club was primarily as a prompt to consistently keep at the training and the trying which means posting in the good times and the bad
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Kidneystone and SOTG are about core and compression more than anything, certainly for the shorter climber anyway.
They're about your ability to climb I would say. Doing exercises far removed from actual climbing (i.e. Kettle Bells) is not a way to dig yourself out of a performance hole IMO.
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I stopped posting because ....i wasn’t really progressing anyway.
The reason I started Fit Club then Power Club was primarily as a prompt to consistently keep at the training and the trying which means posting in the good times and the bad
Indeed - like Murph (I think) I was a bit put off posting last week by some negative posts..
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I don't normally post on here, but I'm curious.
Murph - what are "smallholds"? That's a lot of kettlebell swings and fingerboarding, and not much climbing. If you are +40kg on the beast maker 2000 small crimps, it's not finger strength stopping you from climbing your gardoms projects. Perhaps you just need more time on the projects?
To get out of your strength rut, try replacing the max hangs with one set of anderson hangs a week for a little while. Buy a lamp and go out in the evening and try your projects, or hit the wave on grim evenings...
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Kidneystone and SOTG are about core and compression more than anything, certainly for the shorter climber anyway.
They're about your ability to climb I would say. Doing exercises far removed from actual climbing (i.e. Kettle Bells) is not a way to dig yourself out of a performance hole IMO.
certain climbs do expose weaknesses for certain morphologies, if you're short you find yourself very stretched on Kidneystone and releasing the heel-toe is a killer for me, keep thinking I could do it with better core strength. I agree it seems to be a lot of KBs and not much climbing (or rest this week) and who couldn't benefit from a beasting off the Wave.
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The best gains I’ve had in recent years has been to give up all that extraneous shite otherwise known as training and go climbing when I feel like it / have the time. Either trad, sport or bouldering on my home board all with the intention to push myself a little bit. Fun, rewarding, less time consuming and not pissing in the wind with repeaters and yoga.
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Murph is the bloke wot done Advanced Training isn't he? I'm pretty sure I've said this in ages past, but if you're strong enough to pull 7C on limestone, and you're adding that much weight to any holds that can be described as "small", then strength is not your problem. Your ticklist is made up of 7Bs, and things like NTBTA should be on your warm up circuit. If you're struggling with these problems on grit then something is wrong and it is not your finger strength. You're training plan looks like a textbook example of what Dave McLeod describes in his training book where the strong beast fails to progress and incorrectly attributes this to a lack of strength, and thus pursues ever diminishing gains on the fingerboard.
Go and do some climbing. Dare I even say, go and do lots of climbing that will specifically punish poor technique and which you can't just brutalise your way up. If limestone is what you're good at then maybe lay off board climbing and seek out slabs and aretes at 7A and below and do as many as you can. Just imagine your feet are little helicopters.
I'd idly assumed that kettlebell routines had been shown to actually have some benefit to climbing, given that they seem to crop up on here all the time. Is this the case? They seem to be highly inspecific.
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Thanks guys! Trouble with putting your imperfect routine under the microscope is it looks very imperfect indeed.
Tom - the kettlebell routine is fun. It's recommended by some climbing coaches etc to build up a bit of basic strengh and I think that doing it has genuinely helped my weak shoulders. Certainly I've not had a shoulder injury in a year touch wood. Is it actually as good as the 20 minute routine of external rotations with a 1/2kg weight? I don't know. But it must be better than the 1/2kg weight routine I wasn't doing!
Important context though is the kb routine absolutely is not at the expense of having a good session at the wall or crag - it's 20 minutes I can do at home whenever. Fits in around full time job and childcare. Appreciate the way it's written here in isolation it's easy to think its a shit use of time, but it's enjoyable in itself and has an opportunity cost of not much.
Hi Stu - it's the small crimps on the BM1k (which are the same/smaller than the small crimps on the 2k). Yeah fingerstrength isn't a massive weakness but I know that it should be a lot better than it is. I was easily hanging 40kgs earlier this year, and even managed 48kgs for 8.5s at bw of 65kgs when I was going well in Feb. That's the frustration here. I thought I could win that standard back fairly easily but it's just not coming.
I haven't been on Kidney, SOTG or Piss for a couple of years. NTBTA and Conan I haven't ever tried. They are just things on the wishlist that I would like to get done! Ovine was the thing I stuck four sessions into and came away with nothing but whiplash. Then found that I couldn't do the easy things on pinches any more. This was after ticking AT which was a bit weird.
Agree that i should change up that fingerboard routine as it's not working (anderson or Nai's suggestion) and I'll limit it to twice a week max. I think it could be that I just haven't been letting fingers recover properly or something. Foundry wave - it's finding the time. It's out of my way and the extra travel time and stuff. I know that sounds pretty feeble. I will go take a look though but don't know when. Failing that I might get myself back on the 6s at the works at least - should put a good solid wall session in once a week. This hasn't happened for months.
As rubbish as my routine is, there is context for some of these choices and the kettlebells, just like the running, isn't done just to get better at climbing. A version of this randomness did get me up something half decent this year so I am sort of reluctant to throw it all in the bin just yet. That's probably really irrational! Spinning a few plates at once is probably an avoidance tactic in itself - like, if I ditched the kbs and running and then didn't get some magical tick it would be a gamble that didn't pay off. Whereas as it is I quite enjoy those things in themselves.
Hi Will - just seen your reply, yes I am that bloke wot done Advance Training. Yeah NTBTA isn't something I've sieged. It's something that I would quite like to climb is all. But it is high and scary. I am terrible at heights. It's why I boulder. I know this is the sort of thing that isn't very cool to admit around here but I am really really shit at climbing. Totally the 9 out of 10 applies to me. I don't know what the practical cure is though really. A few weeks back I was at plantation with a rope trying to climb Paradise Wall HS. I was 7 foot off the deck terrified beyond belief that I was going to have a horrible accident if not there than a bit higher up. I genuinely promised myself that I wouldn't ever do anything as stupid as trad climb again. The day before I had retro flashed a 7B and a few weeks before that had ticked AT. My bouldering grades and trad grades make no sense whatsoever.
Alright, that's probably enough over sharing. I'll try to climb more and get those things on my list done. And I'll limit the fingerboard or a bit. Thanks everyone for your help.
(oh, but if someone does have the knowledge about how to go from here to Tsunami let's talk! I would gladly give everything else up for that)
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Bravo for getting that out. Have a wad point.
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Murph, if you're into "climbing stuff", I strongly advise you against the Mindless Pursuit of Strength, to which I've devoted my entire sport career, especially in climbing.
Set your priorities straight and feed the wolf that you want to grow.
Strength is Strength, not climbing.
Climbing is one of the most complex disciplines, if not the most, imaginable. It requires a perfect blend of strength, power, technique, equilibrium, conditions, good skin, good mindset, good atmosphere, good tools, not to mention the various intricacies of finger strength, pulling and pushing strength, body tension, flexibility, etc. A blend that is specific for every type of rock and climb!
Don't waste your time comparing your 1RM to what you climb - especially on grit!
Go climb and enjoy yourself, the ticks will come.
As a side note, in any case you will never be as strong as I am, so why trying?
:P
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With regards to heights, if you're scared by highballs, don't do them.
You don't have to prove anything to anyone, especially to yourself.
I was and am scared by heights as well and I don't care.
I flashed NTBTA ages ago, got a bit higher up, got scared and downclimbed it. Was I happy? Yes, and I still am.
My sponsors - that I never had - never complained.
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Climbing is one of the most complex disciplines, if not the most, imaginable. It requires a perfect blend of strength, power, technique, equilibrium, conditions, good skin, good mindset, good atmosphere, good tools, not to mention the various intricacies of finger strength, pulling and pushing strength, body tension, flexibility, etc. A blend that is specific for every type of rock and climb!
I like that. Makes the sport sound way cooler! An Australian guidebook describes trad climbing as 'a fusion of gymnastics, chess and russian roulette' which was also quite apt I thought.
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(oh, but if someone does have the knowledge about how to go from here to Tsunami let's talk! I would gladly give everything else up for that)
I guess work out what your weakness/es are and address them. It's not going to be finger strength. If you can't do Pinches Wall problems you can't blame that on technique so do you have some flaw in shoulders or core strength? Not sure f this relevant but I found it an interesting read, I think I'm a Person 4, or possibly a 2. I'm trying the systems board approach outlined in parts 1&2 to try and strengthen hips and shoulders, seems to be a weakness for me, have atendency to twist my hip in, more so on the right side.
https://joshuatreebouldering.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/a-followup-part-3-efficiency/
https://joshuatreebouldering.wordpress.com/2014/09/06/system-training-part-1/
https://joshuatreebouldering.wordpress.com/2014/09/08/system-training-part-2/
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If you can't do Pinches Wall problems you can't blame that on technique so do you have some flaw in shoulders or core strength?
I think transferring enough weight onto those super polished footholds to be able to use the poorer holds on pinches wall does actually require quite a lot of technique.
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Fair enough, keep being shit as an option
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Two weeks worth for me:
M: Anston - did a new link up on Apprentice Wall - The Wookie (7A+). Well chuffed - took much longer than it should have - some micro beta swung it in the end.
W: Anston again with Dolly (I think).
Fri: Depot
M: Anston with Nai and Dolly.
Fri: Crap weather, Depot. Liking the purple circuit there very much atm. Some great problems.
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Thanks guys!
Nibs - made me laugh. Why try indeed?
Nai - interesting link that. I’m going to try to work out what it all means. Ordered the kettles book and still waiting on it. I’m hoping it contains the secret that’s been eluding.
Pinches is quite stiff though, isn’t it? Jumping off of really poor footholds. I will lap Bovine then be unable to do anything above #5 or something on pinches. Which ones can you do Nai?
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Wow Nai that first article is awesome. I don’t claim to understand all of it, though I’m fairly sure I am Person 6, but....just wow. Climbing is very complicated!
I need a coach. That stuff is going to be hard to diagnose let alone implement corrective action.
Thanks again for pointing.
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Thanks guys!
Nibs - made me laugh. Why try indeed?
I'm glad I made you laugh, that was the aim of the line. But the rest is serious!
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Thanks guys! Trouble with putting your imperfect routine under the microscope is it looks very imperfect indeed.
Hi Will - just seen your reply, yes I am that bloke wot done Advance Training.... but I am really really shit at climbing.
Alright, that's probably enough over sharing. I'll try to climb more and get those things on my list done. And I'll limit the fingerboard or a bit. Thanks everyone for your help.
You sound like the anti-me. I perhaps overachieve relative to my "metrics" (just ask Lattice!), likely as I can spend lots of weekends on my chosen projects (routes at Malham and Kilnsey). Also, working my strengths has worked for me: max hang sessions (Lopez protocol) to strengthen already strong fingers, to subvert rather than address my weaknesses.
But, I would prefer to be in your position. With an engine like yours, you probably just need a small change in attitude / momentum to go on a campaign of crushing: the power is within you... perhaps you are a pre-Sky Chris Froome... just a marginal gain from supremacy! It would be very unfair if it didn't come good. By comparison, I feel like a chancer - an extended period of failure would be my just-desserts for being weak and undeserving!
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Wasn’t planning to post due to afore-mentioned reticence about posting m’eh weeks, but can’t pass up opportunity to take pish out of Nick’s training woes :smirk:
my weak shoulders
1. Please stop talking cock about your shoulders - I know a specialist told you, so it must be true, but basically Murph is buff with shirt-filling deltoids :wub:; Advanced training crux is a solid 7C gaston lock - weak shoulders don’t lap it statically about 40 times (then falling off a 6A finish).
2. The kettlebells ain’t ever going to get you up a bit of rock, but I won’t diss them as they are (moderately poor) training for deadlift so all good! Possibly could make a case for dynamic post chain strength, esp in fluid comp style indoor climbing.. However you’re as short as me, and your core is solid, so moving on...
3. Most/all your finger boarding is open handed non? Maybe some open crimp for a change, tho I agree with others it’s not your weak link.
4. Tsunami vs mid grade grit - fuck sake make your mind up, cos them’s two very different bags of balls to be training for! I’ll tell you the answer Tsunami obviously cos it’s quality and now grit lime season is about to start it’ll be a good winter project - I’ll join you whenever Griff’s is wet.. Sorry did I just say Griff’s?? I’ll say it again Griff’s Griff’s Griff’s it’s the dog’s knackers and worth talking about as seems to rack up the greatest concentration of hardness east of Parisella’s (20 x 8th grade probs/links on peakbouldering).
And yes the slopers on ovine are already grippy (when they’re not wet).
And Griff’s is unapologetically awesomely lowball now that no-one bothers topping mint sauce any more :lol:
5. Always down the works, never on the board... Don’t you remember the hierarchy of training transference?? :slap:
M- nul
T- GRIFF’s: lapped grippy ovine to warm-up; worked mutton bustin despite wet holds - did first (crux) move about 5 times, figured great shorty’s foot beta for third move to sloper - the second move feels steady with good body position but struggled to find it on link so no joy..
W- nul
T- GRIFF’s with Dom and Matt but undryable so didn’t pull on - was going to Moonboard but got puncture on way home..
F- nul
S- nul
S- Stoke AW decent session; flashed V7, climbed another couple of V7s and repeated the orange on the kid’s wall that no-one else seems to be able to do..
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I've missed all the PC regulars, welcome back - I hope you stay... :bounce:
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On the topic of meh weeks...
I managed one lunchtime trip to the gym all week, where I got my shoulder stabilisation / strength stuff done, and a bit of deadhanging.
Fortunately Will has already summed up the my approach / rate of return on training.
This would only highlight the futitility of my "training" - far too little of it to actually see any improvements, more just trying to mark time until such a time as I can try and improve.
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For me climbing is like following a shit football team. You spend many hours watching dross with the occasional glimmer or moment of hope - but every now and then* it can all come together and be a wonderful experience.
*timescale 1 week to 20 years ;)
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You are both too kind. Moose I would like to believe you are onto something. That article Nai linked was really profound - it said someone who is strong but crap has a hard time getting good because they have to unlearn their bad habits (“engrams”) and re learn. Like that time Yoda said to Luke “you must unlearn what you have learned”. Learning can be hard enough but unlearning is tough! Not sure if it’s really as fundamental as that but it could be.
A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to have a coaching session with monkey boy. He pointed me to the wall and asked me how I would climb a certain problem. I pointed to the holds and said what I would do. This is pretty standard stuff. I was so wrong. Not only the wrong bit of my foot (apparently you are supposed to stand on your toes, not the inside pad) but I was also pointing to the wrong hold. Which was nowhere near the right hold. And that was just pulling on! This kind of thing happens all the time. Sometimes I feel like that kid in The Royal Tenenbaums who Bill Murray is studying - the one who can’t copy shapes anything like he’s supposed to. I think this movement dyslexia is why I tend to go out and repeat the same things or only climb things I’ve seen videos of. Learning new moves is disproportionately difficult and when I go to a new problem I have to learn it all again.
That resonate with anyone or does it tend to just be the execution?
Matt thanks for that dude. You flatter me. And yes I still have the hierarchy of training. It is on my wall. Last week at the works I was on the baby board but couldn’t get up it at all.
Apologies to PCers who have no interest in this, but I really do appreciate the support and advice and I am at a crossroads as far as climbing goes. Was thinking of giving it up and taking up lifting but sort of know I should stick with.
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Good analogy TomTom - you have to be there for the defeats to enjoy the once in a lifetime victory.
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1. Please stop talking cock about your shoulders - I know a specialist told you, so it must be true, but basically Murph is buff with shirt-filling deltoids :wub:; Advanced training crux is a solid 7C gaston lock - weak shoulders don’t lap it statically about 40 times (then falling off a 6A finish).
Shoulders move in many directions, because your strong in one doesn't mean there's not a weakness in others. Any weakness is likley to be in the supporting muscles, rather than the Delts, perhaps caused by poor form, etc.
4. I’ll join you whenever Griff’s is wet..
Griffs doesn't stay dry over winter does it?
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'Wasn’t planning to post due to afore-mentioned reticence about posting m’eh weeks, but can’t pass up opportunity to take pish out of Nick’s training woes'
Please can I join in and take the p as well ?, although i don't post cos I don't train! but I do enjoy the weekly power club soap (Beastenders?..)
Nick, most seem to be saying climb more which is pretty much wot me and T have said to you for years. Your finger strength and core are so good that you should be able to get up some proper hard stuff on the grit and lime, but just keeping on the same fingerboard routine seems like a dead end maybe, and unnecessary.
So I'll stick my 2p in and offer some short term advice as well:
1. Ditch the KB's or just bring them to the crag and I can use them for tying up the dog.
2. Ditch the weights or like u say just once a week or so. If you cant do HS on grit I'm not sure you should be allowed to put
a harness on anyway :)
3. As lovely as your delts are, put the shirt back on, and do a solid month on the Murple/red? problems at the
Works if time- poor for getting outside(not the easier circuits other than for some volume), would have thought that would
help give you some good
'movement/flow/technique for grit and force you to try stuff you are not so good on. Or come out with me for some low
7's grit action..
Keep at it!!
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A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to have a coaching session with monkey boy. He pointed me to the wall and asked me how I would climb a certain problem. I pointed to the holds and said what I would do. This is pretty standard stuff. I was so wrong. Not only the wrong bit of my foot (apparently you are supposed to stand on your toes, not the inside pad) but I was also pointing to the wrong hold. Which was nowhere near the right hold. And that was just pulling on! This kind of thing happens all the time. Sometimes I feel like that kid in The Royal Tenenbaums who Bill Murray is studying - the one who can’t copy shapes anything like he’s supposed to. I think this movement dyslexia is why I tend to go out and repeat the same things or only climb things I’ve seen videos of. Learning new moves is disproportionately difficult and when I go to a new problem I have to learn it all again.
That resonate with anyone or does it tend to just be the execution?
I see climbing movement like a toolkit or a language, the more climbing you do of different styles, the more diverse your toolkit, or the more fluent your language will be. Confidence in your move vocabulary will allow you to chose that right sequence for you, which will vary according to your height/reach/flexibility etc. With enough time climbing you should be able to go up to a new problem and visualise a few different methods that might work, which will then need paring down by actually trying them.
I think the best recipe for improving this really is time on rock, particularly more technical rock types such as grit/font/sandstone, climbing volume below your limit, including whatever styles you would usually avoid. It sounds like time may be a limiting factor for you, which would stop this being a viable option. There does seem to be several coaches offering movement based coaching these days, I've heard really good things about Suzan Dudink in Newcastle, but there must be a Sheffield based equivalent? If you could get some movement drills to do so that your time at the wall is spent in conscious practice of improving identified areas of weakness, then this may help?
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I was going to add something like that but knowhere near as well, another great analogy.
I was also wondering whether John Kettle's book might be a place to start? Anyone who's read it care to share whether it's helping them? tomtom?
i'd guess Tim Cunnington, peakprofitness would be the Sheffield movement guy, you can get a free intro session with him before commiting to giving him your cash and he'll even confirm whether you have weak shoulders or not.
Pinches is quite stiff though, isn’t it?. Which ones can you do Nai?
Never tried any other than the easy ones on big holds when warming up. If I know I'm going to the Tor I'll warm up at home first, only ever warm up there if there's a change of plan
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I think this movement dyslexia is why I tend to go out and repeat the same things or only climb things I’ve seen videos of. Learning new moves is disproportionately difficult and when I go to a new problem I have to learn it all again.
There's only one way around this that I know of, and it's to do a load of climbing, on new problems, on as many styles as possible, relentlessly and consistently. New problems, new crags, new rock types, new indoor walls, different setters at the same wall etc...
With that in mind any "training hierarchy" for you should surely be
1. Get out if at all possible
2. If you can't, then get to a wall (and climb, not hang)
3. If you can't (e.g. have 45min only) then train at home
As everyone's said, if you need to hang because it's all you've got time for at home then try mixing up the routine.
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the weekly power club soap (Beastenders?..)
:clap2:
Don't take all this the wrong way, Murph. Nobody's slagging you here, it's just that the "mistakes" you're making are so obvious that even know-nothings like myself can weigh in. Secretly, we're all incredibly jealous as well. If someone told me that the biggest difference I could make to my climbing was to get out on the grit as much as possible and tick my way through some easy classics I would weep tears of joy.
It sounds like the big challenge for you will be to find the time to get out and actually get the climbing in. I gather you have at least one kid? Is there any way you can work out a routine with your partner so that you have a childcare-free evening or day at the weekend? Now is not really the time for it, but if you can get out on the grit on a summer's evening you can climb till it gets dark and you can still get a good session in even if you leave the house once the sprog's in bed.
Now. What you were saying about being scared of heights and getting spooked on a HS. Don't let anybody tell you that these things are not learned skills. Whatever height you're comfortable at above pads now, it can be pushed higher, but the only way to do it is to have a go, take the falls, and learn how to fall/jump off well. Obviously if you don't want to do this then fine, but it sounds like you are inspired by climbing's more aesthetic challenges and for some of these you are going to have to venture beyond your current comfort zone. The same goes for technique and figuring out sequences - it's all learnable if you try. Don't use "movement dyslexia" (regardless of whether this is a real thing that you may or may not have) as an excuse to not get better.
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1. Get out if at all possible
2. If you can't, then get to a wall (and climb, not hang)
3. If you can't (e.g. have 45min only) then train at home
I think I'll print this on cards to have ready as hand outs.
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Don't take all this the wrong way, Murph. Nobody's slagging you here, it's just that the "mistakes" you're making are so obvious that even know-nothings like myself can weigh in. Secretly, we're all incredibly jealous as well. If someone told me that the biggest difference I could make to my climbing was to get out on the grit as much as possible and tick my way through some easy classics I would weep tears of joy.
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Absolutely, there's some really good advice here I think as well as the banter.. The height/trad stuff is mainly just familiarity, as you're comfortable falling off at a reasonable height on steep bouldering.
I think a lot of folk (me included) would weep tears of joy if they could hang ++50% bodyweight off the BM crimps...
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Apologies to PCers who have no interest in this
What are you talking about Murph? This is gold.
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Thanks for all the strong advice dudes. Appreciate the effort. None of it taken The wrong way. To be honest it’s a bit humbling that people would be so willing to offer advice.
Thanks everyone telling me to actually go out climbing. Of course. Should stop making excuses about short passes and stuff.
Those pinkles-and-fingerboard routines need to go in the bin.
Huw - tying your dog to a kb is a great idea! Would love to get out with you for grit volume.
Alex - your three point summary for success is brilliant. Thank you.
Nai - you’ve complicated the simplicity of that plan a bit there though. The Joshua article with the person types warns against strong climber (uncomfortable to think of myself like that) as having the yoda problem. Crap climbing with strength is not learning good climbing.
Coaching or at the least taking the effort to learn seems pretty essential.
I think a lot of folk (me included) would weep tears of joy if they could hang ++50% bodyweight off the BM crimps...
Dude, if I can offer some advice back, just get on the fingerboard! ;D
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What Barrows said.
Get out and try and do lots of different problems on different rocks/walls. I don’t think its movement dyslexia - more needing to expand the movement vocabulary :)
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Bringing things back on topic....
Griffs doesn't stay dry over winter does it?
I don't know if it normally does but the FA of King of Lambs (http://peakbouldering.info/areas/5-central-limestone/crags/109-blackwell-dale/boulders/534-griff-s-buttress/problems/6299-king-of-lambs#.W8dd3GhKjb0) was Dec 21st 2014 apparently....
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Nai - you’ve complicated the simplicity of that plan a bit there though. The Joshua article with the person types warns against strong climber (uncomfortable to think of myself like that) as having the yoda problem. Crap climbing with strength is not learning good climbing.
Just ignore me, listen to Alex.
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Nai - you’ve complicated the simplicity of that plan a bit there though. The Joshua article with the person types warns against strong climber (uncomfortable to think of myself like that) as having the yoda problem. Crap climbing with strength is not learning good climbing.
I think the key here is it's the variety that's important. The 100kg beastmaker hangs and the 32kg kettlebell snatches are going to make zero difference on crescent arete (for example). Time on rock will allow you to learn to effectively use the strength you have, you may be able to 'strong' your way through occasional moves, but that's totally fine set against a background of climbing volume where you're learning a lot of the time.
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Max hangs are going nowhere. Not sure if I should carry on with them really. The aim had been to get finger strength back to standard and go crush. But for reasons I can’t work out I’m not getting back to standard at all and am finding the hangs very difficult. I wish I knew why...or rather I wish I knew what bit of all the randomness worked before.
Could be conditions related (cooler and less humid earlier in the year? Could geek-out and get a hygrometer and thermometer to track conditions). Any change in the amount (and quality) of rest / sleep between sessions? May indicate that you need to change up your fingerboard sessions for a bit to get a different stimulus. It sounds like the 3 max hangs sessions are all the same - is there any variety in grip?
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I genuinely promised myself that I wouldn't ever do anything as stupid as trad climb again.
I haven't followed most of this discussion as I don't use kettlebells and don't know (nor want to know) what "Griffs" is, but this is a great quote and cracked me up :)
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Thanks everyone telling me to actually go out climbing. Of course. Should stop making excuses about short passes and stuff.
Hey, any interest in sharing mat-hauling and spotting duties on Conan, Nicotine Stain and maybe NTBTA?
I can also offer pathetically easy trad if you decide to break your promise, and will not judge you for your love of kettlebells.
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Glad it brought a smile Fiend. I have given up climbing many times since you took me to ladybower quarry that time.
Slab - happy to. There must be others on here who’d be up for NTBTA? I’d want a lot of pads! I like to do my climbing unsociable early or late tho...pm me?
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PM-ed you. Fervent agreement on the number of mats I'd want on NTBTA, in the somehat unlikely event of my ever getting past the start ...
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Hard bit of ntbta is first couple of moves. Rest is on big holds etc...
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Hard bit of ntbta is first couple of moves. Rest is on big holds etc...
Bit of a stretch at the top. You probably didn’t notice...
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Hard bit of ntbta is first couple of moves. Rest is on big holds etc...
Bit of a stretch at the top. You probably didn’t notice...
Sorry - can’t hear you from up here! 😃
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Hard bit of ntbta is first couple of moves. Rest is on big holds etc...
Bit of a stretch at the top. You probably didn’t notice...top out though
:P
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Hard bit of ntbta is first couple of moves. Rest is on big holds etc...
So I've heard, but my friends will tell you that I have an amazing ability to fall off stuff it shouldn't be possible to fall off ...
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Glad it brought a smile Fiend. I have given up climbing many times since you took me to ladybower quarry that time.
Dafuck?? Did that actually happen? I remember going for a look with someone and possibly climbing a VS or maybe an E1 over on the right? Was that you?
If so, sorry for putting you off trad for life ;)
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Haha yep that was me about 15 years ago :wave:. We went to rivelin quarry, higgar and ladybower in the damp. Then to the foundry for an actual climb. The day long passes when passes weren’t even a thing. Back then with all the time in the world VS was my limit. Still is
NTBTA. The top out is stiff for VS apparently. I’ll put a thread up here when it looks like it’s on and try to get all the pads in one place.
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LOL. Well I never. I did go back to Rivelin Quarries and do a few great routes there. Still never did Paddington. Maybe this winter....
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Glad it brought a smile Fiend. I have given up climbing many times since you took me to ladybower quarry that time.
Slab - happy to. There must be others on here who’d be up for NTBTA? I’d want a lot of pads! I like to do my climbing unsociable early or late tho...pm me?
RE: NTBTA. Beta from about 50 secs.
As for pads...just get one and shift it along. That's what we did back in't day!
https://vimeo.com/79375288 (https://vimeo.com/79375288)
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I'm sure NTBTA was given HVS 5c? in the Stanage guide when I first did it. Or am I totally making that up and thinking of something else? not got old guide to look.. was that the 1984 ish guide?
Think was enough grass then instead of pads.....
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It was E2 6a in the red guide, so probably classic HVS 5c bollox in the older guide, in the same vein as every other HVS 5b/c micro-route on grit that are always far more dangerous than E2 5b slabs with good gear at half-height.
It took me 3 or 4 visits to psyche myself up to do it as a solo rather than a highball....
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I'm sure NTBTA was given HVS 5c? in the Stanage guide when I first did it. Or am I totally making that up and thinking of something else? not got old guide to look.. was that the 1984 ish guide?
It’s HVS 5c in the ‘83 guide, E2 6a in the ‘89 & ‘02 guides & V4 (6b) in the current one.