UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Duncan campbell on January 18, 2016, 12:57:00 pm
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Dear UKB training/crushing/typing experts,
Looking for a bit of advice that admittedly I should have asked Tom Randall when he had his Q&A on Friday but I didn't think about it then and was also out when he was on...
I am currently suffering from a massive drop in performance which I am finding a little bit stressful/disheartening. Only a few months ago I was potentially at my strongest ever bouldering-wise and that came after my best ever year in terms of tradding and sport-climbing. My performance started to drop come early december and it has steadily declined since. Now, I just don't feel the same power/ability/something and Im unsure how to get it back!
I rested for a week before xmas (may have done a few pressups and situps + went on a run with me old man xmas day) and then went out to spain for a climbing holiday where I mainly had fun but despite having not tied in for a few months previous to the trip and climbing badly early on, within a few days I had matched my previous best onsight and by then end had onsighted another at the grade. (as it was a short trip I climbed 6 days on - though these weren't necessarily massive days)
I guess I should maybe explain a little about my lifestyle to maybe get a better answer...
I work Mon-Fri 7am-5pm so wake up at 6am and get home at 6pm and am outside for large amounts of the day. (I started this job around the beginning of october)
I usually take monday evening off as a full rest evening.
Then I typically go to the wall tues,weds,thurs for a few hours 6:30/7 to around 10. I mainly boulder but occasionally do a bit on the circuit board to retain a bit of fitness. occasionally do some pressups/situps/stretching etc at some point too
I then go home, smash in some dinner and go to bed at 11.
recently have been going to the works yoga on tuesday or thurs every other week
friday night I dont climb but often go to the pub for a few.
Sat/sunday is spent climbing (in recent months this has been more fucking indoor climbing. having been able to get out recently im totally useless on rock, which is probably partly due to drop in form partly because ive barely climbed on the grit this winter so havent got the knack.
Only other thing I can think of that may have something to do with it is general relationship shambles that began just as my performance started dropping off... though in the past this hasn't had an effect...
I imagine everyone will say rest - the problem is in recent years I have started to get really really bored of miling around the house + find exercise helps me sleep/feel happy. I love running but hate it on roads in the dark. Also part of me worries that rest wont help.
also how much rest/what exercise I can do until I can climb again would be valuable knowledge... considering doing some movement stuff potentially and/or try and figure out vague training plan.
I fully subscribe to the whole "peak + Trough" performance thing and I can deal with this trough if it doesnt affect my trad and sport climbing. Would still be good to hear what the UKB gurus have to say... if anything.
Thanks in advance!
Dunc
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Overtraining/ not enough rest. Sounds like you rarely get 8 hours of sleep and only have monday night off! Considering that you started a new full time job in october and started your "decline" around december i would be inclined to say that you're asking too much from your body. It's amazing how much of a long term effect too much stress and not enough sleep can have!
I would also mention that your mid week "training" (you don't use this word!) seems pretty hap- hazard. Is going to the wall for close to 4 hours and doing "a bit of bouldering and a bit on the circuit board" the most efficient use of your limited time and energy? I had some issues with long term fatigue early last year, and as a result started experimenting with shorter (2hrs max) regimented sessions and a lot more rest. 6 months down the line i am considerably stronger and fitter! I've been using a slightly modified version of the red program (link below) with some aerocap thrown in for good measure. The cycle of 3/1 training/rest weeks works really well for me.
http://www.stevemaischtraining.com/workout-structure-global.html
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I rested for a week before xmas (may have done a few pressups and situps + went on a run with me old man xmas day) and then went out to spain for a climbing holiday where I mainly had fun but despite having not tied in for a few months previous to the trip and climbing badly early on, within a few days I had matched my previous best onsight and by then end had onsighted another at the grade. (as it was a short trip I climbed 6 days on - though these weren't necessarily massive days)
Tell me about it. After a similar week in Chulilla I'm struggling a week later to stay awake let alone climb. My plan is just to fingerboard, do some weights and pull ups till I feel strong enough to climb at a half decent level. Treat it as the end of a cycle. You've clearly dug yourself into a hole. Maybe take a week off before even starting to build back up again. Be guided by how you feel rather than than prescribed rest. You hear horror stories about super active types ending up with ME. It sucks to start at the bottom of the ladder again. Play the long game. Keep the faith. At least it is winter
Looking back at my diary in Nov 2013 I had 8 full days rest after an intensive week at Kalymnos. It then took nearly three weeks to get back to a decent standard.
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Sounds like you have just dug yourself into a hole basically. If you are climbing as much as you are then you simply can't perform well the whole time. You would need to use a few of the days as very light recovery workouts in order to resist burnout.
I thought the general principle is that when you train, you did a recovery hole. If you finish fresh then that hole is small and you will recover to your baseline quickly. If you keep beating yourself day after day you will dig that hole deeper and deeper and never recover fully. Basically 2 steps backwards, 1 step forwards. Eventually you will see a serious drop in performance. Its quite easy to mistake that as a sign to train harder instead of needing to rest more.
Basically I would take the best part of a week off at least. Like almost complete rest.
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So you had your best trip ever by the sounds of it, then you've been poor for a few weeks? Sounds standard to me, I often have that. And whilst it may be a sign of overreaching (doubt you're really overtrained) it may just be a dip that you have to keep plugging away through..
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In a year's time it'll seem like an insignificant dip in an otherwise upwards general trend. Or you'll never climb again. Whichever, it doesn't do to force mental energy for too long if it's in short supply.
Do something different for a week, two weeks, a month. Go hillwalking the snow's down. You don't forget how to climb and gains already made return more quickly than achieving new levels.
And consider yourself lucky not to be injured (are you injured?). From someone who's just had his first bouldering sesh last weekend following 5 months of injury (inc. the last 8 weeks with zero climbing). Now I'm psyched for the upcurve again.
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If you peaked before, you should be in the transition phase now? Isn't that normal?
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Mate, you need to get better at sitting around doing fuck all and relaxing/recovering. I know I make it look easy, but chilling is a skill you learn the same as anything else by practice, practice and more practice. ;)
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Hey Duncan
I would agree with what other folk have said, you need to rest more. How about taking weds off as well as monday? That's what I did for years (and still do mostly) cos I'm mostly beasted after a hard session on tues and like to train when fresh on the thurs session. 2 hard sessions in the week will mean that you're primed for the weekend's cranking. You'll be fresher mentally as well as physically when you rock up to the wall. When I go to the wall 3 days on the trot, by the 3rd day, I'm feeling a bit jaded at best and it can be like flogging a dead horse.
Re your perceived drop in form, I reckon this is an illusion as your body is just overworked at the minute, you need to get that box fresh feeling back when setting off on a hard send or indoor project where you're feeling strong and confident before you even set off.
When I came back from Suirana, I had a few sessions on the fingerboard that were pretty woeful but guess what, I bounced back pretty quick, i was just knackered from having pushed it on hols with little/ no rest.
Keep the faith hombre!
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It sounds like long term overtraining; if so reducing the training load for a few weeks until you were recovered enough to start slowly increasing it would be effective. It's not uncommon at all in people after they've been pushing themsleves hard for a long time, and it is partly about recovering mentally as well as physically, simply changing how you exercise would be unlikely to help.
- looking through a couple of books I have, training for the new alpinism (which tends to be the clearest) gives this list of signs you're overtraining (as well as poor performance):
progressivley going to bed later and less hours sleeping
loss of enthusiasm
irritability
persistent low mood
weight loss
If you wanted to search more this sometimes get's called cental fatigue syndrome or burnout if it continues to worsen.
On a positive note, learning how to recognise and deal with overtraining now will allow you keep progressing and deal with similiar problems again in the future. Sorry if all that's done is muddy the water, I'm not the best person to explain this; but I have experienced several times after climbing trips and exam periods :-(
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I limit myself to two hours at the wall Dunc. And Like tmr I'm strongest I've been in a while. Getting dinner a bit earlier and to bed a bit earlier because I get back from wall around 9 rather than 10 helped a lot for me.
If I don't eat enough or sleep enough then I struggle. Similarly, after a intense trip I often need to take it easy for a bit.
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If you're going to the works yoga i'll presume you're going to the works most of the other days? You're there mostly between 3-3.5 hours after a 10 hour day at work outside, I'll also presume you're mostly doing circuits for this time (substitute circuits for routes at foundry or whatever). Your body's spending the day fighting off the cold outside, it's freezing out there for those of you that work in offices, then you're asking it to do 3 hours at least of other work. You're just doing too much. Maybe spend a day or two during the week down the wall or like has been mentioned cut down the time there drastically, and mix up what you've been doing so you don't know you're performing shit. i.e. if you don't campus start a bit of a routine once a week where you spend a couple of hours just campussing with long rests in-between.
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Long term overtraining having had best onsight trip ever 3 weeks ago?? Whoever said that is fuckin crackers.
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By long term over training I meant that it was the length of time (months) without a period to recuperate, instead of a shorter time over training e.g. like doing strength exercises so often that they don't have the opportunity to recover and supercompensation doesn't occur.
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He had a week off before Christmas though - that's less than a month ago. Realistically it's likely just a little dip after a little peak. Hitting it too hard straight after a trip can often burn you out a bit. We're talking more like slightly overreached than long term over trained.
Duncan - have a few weeks where you take it easy and do less than normal
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Sounds like you expect to be permanently turbocharged. Get more rest I'd say. Have a break, then spend a few weeks building up again. I took 10 weeks off in the autumn, climbed my hardest indoor problem to date this evening- decrease the quantity and focus on quality a bit more.
A sign of proper overtraining is elevated resting heart rate btw. I doubt you're really overtrained, just a bit tired.
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How much of a dip?
After a huge personal goal was achieved I dropped by a full French number grade and was exhausted for a month...
I also reckon the back to back days at the gym is bed. 2-3 days rest has helped me. I now do a week with 4 climbing days then a week with 3. It has helped my injuries out
Ps you climb a lot better than me, just wanted to give some thoughts
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Sounds like you expect to be permanently turbocharged. Get more rest I'd say. Have a break, then spend a few weeks building up again. I took 10 weeks off in the autumn, climbed my hardest indoor problem to date this evening- decrease the quantity and focus on quality a bit more.
A sign of proper overtraining is elevated resting heart rate btw. I doubt you're really overtrained, just a bit tired.
A lower than usual resting heart rate can also be an indication of overtraining.
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Bloody hell. .... I'm in awe of your appetite for training / climbing. I've started finger-boarding in the last few months but for the 6/7 years before that, the only exercise of any description I've done is weekend climbing sessions (plus holidays).... performing noticeably worse Sunday compared to Saturday. That said,I still progress in my meagre way and anything much more and I get elbow niggles. Over training strikes me as very likely indeed given your schedule..
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Correct me if I am wrong but you are going to the wall for 3 hours Tuesday, Wednesday AND Thursday - EVERY WEEK!?
I'm amazed you aren't more messed up than you already are, let alone the long days at work etc etc etc.
Seriously I would try resting a bit more. And I don't mean just have a complete day off, I mean try and have a complete month where you scale things back a bit in general and see how your body responds, then gradually dial up the intensity. Worst case scenario, you train a little less hard, best case scenario you start listening to your body and carry on crushing!
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Thanks all for your replies - definitely a lot of interesting stuff to consider - especially that steve Maisch training schedule!
I'm going to take it a bit easier for the next few weeks and see how things go... I never really thought i had a particularly massive appetite for trainging/climbing potentially because of living with Rob Greenwood who never seems to need any rest (though he does sleep more than me - soft bastard!) however having now moved into the flipping champ AKA michaela tracy's house she sleeps even more!! I had listened to barrows & ondra's training beta podcasts and was worried when barrows said he got loads of sleep but then ondra said he got similar to me so felt better.
The cold temps at work I think are something to do with it - im a skinny little runt as it is so the cold affects me quite a lot...
Im not 100% sure how much I've dipped but on the previous good form in November I did a a 7B and a load of 7As and 7A+ on the Works Comp wall, ticked more than i usually would of whites and murples plus all the wasps - prob 6B+-7A+. it feels like now maybe 6C is my max but but due to a lack of resets I haven't really tested how well im going on fresh problems - will maybe try this at the foundry tonight though might do some easy routes instead...
Its gonna be really tough reducing my amount of exercise - in recent years ive begun to struggle to sit around and do nothing... it helps me sleep and defo helps with my internal mood.
I may also look at my diet - whilst im not unhealthy and not fat or anything i do have a bit of a sweet tooth and this cold weather definitely causes me to eat more calorific foods (some days all i can think about after being outside is eating chips/pie/pizza/etc) although i eat prob manage the eat around 5 bits of fruit and veg a day everyday.
thanks again for all your replies I will try and post up how I get on so it useful for others (myself) in future!!
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Tip - don't judge your performance on indoor grades. They are bollocks at the best of times.
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Completely agree with Dave, one of the reasons I suggested something like campussing for an evening. A change if nothing else.
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Tip - don't judge your performance on indoor grades. They are bollocks at the best of times.
Indeed - and inconsistent bollocks too. One setters 7A+ is anothers 6C..
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Jeez, how much sleep do you want?
The big thing that jumps out at me is eating late, after training. I used to do this when I was young. I reckon it's way, way better to get fueled up before you train. Then 'smash in' a protein shake before bed time. I also eat and drink whilst I'm training, something I've started doing in the last 6 months. I recover quickly (also cos I do short 2hr max sessions, which I'm always bannging on about).
I'm an old git now but if I did't eat my evening meal till just before bed time I'd be absolutely knackered the next day.
Also, stop eating loads of sugar, cut out bread and pasta and reduce your caffeine intake.
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Let me be quite frank.
Matching your best ever onsight after taking time off in december, whilst on a trip in which you climb 6 days on, cannot be squared with a dip in performance.
It sounds to me like your bouldering has dropped a little, and you're tired and worn out from work and everything else. I think your physical level is probably fine, your activity level and training are probably fine but you're a bit too worn out from life to really put in max effort.
When I'm stressed at work I can get personal bests on endurance feats but simply can't bring myself to try hard enough for top-end bouldering. Don't worry about it. Carry on as normal*. when life gets a bit less hectic or stressful your bouldering level will bounce right back.
*Advice on more sleep and better diet options are worth considering.
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Stu talks sense and people saying that training 3 days midweek is extreme are wimps.. Though your job sounds tiring as fuck!
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Hes training 3 days in a row midweek for 3 hours plus, going to the pub friday night and then climbing indoors again saturday and sunday. Thats coupled with probably not eating enough before training in the week as he is having dinner late at night. Hes then not getting enough sleep at the same time.
So hes climbing a lot, not resting much, not eating that well and not getting enough sleep. That coupled with a stressful job can't be a good thing. Overtraining isn't something that can be defined exactly as it differs hugely between people.
The volume of training he is doing is quite high no? Even if that volume was better spread over the week and he was eating at a good time and not stressed out and got plenty of sleep that would be quite a lot of climbing. It doesn't sound like he is doing mainly endurance stuff either.
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More interesting responses... i defo dont measure myself against indoor grades usually but recently its pretty much all I have (I am not going well on the grit either right now) but i know how my body feels and it just doesnt feel as strong as it did before. but it could so easily be a bit of a trough - ive just never had that slow decline feeling... its usually more a quick drop off for a week or two before going back up.
T_B I never complained about the amount of sleep! ;) ive always eaten quite late and so does my dad but ill look into eating before - only issue is time for that really - by the time ive cooked and eaten i wont have much time at the wall? also interesting chat about cutting down on sugar and pasta/bread - would be a tricky one for me but potentially a good call. I consume very little caffeine and can go weeks without having any without much trouble...
Stu and Barrows are probably right but Im keen to make my evening sessions more efficient though so think Ill look into that.
Once the evenings get lighter I'll start running out in the peak again so the strain on my body will drop. also hopefully wont have to climb indoors at the weekends too much in future either!
all interesting stuff to learn about!
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The volume of training he is doing is quite high no?
No.
He's not doing too much - because he just peaked. You can't peak if you do too much. You don't peak. You get worse.
You could argue that what he needs to do now is take a couple of weeks off to get his mind fresh, get some psyche back, re-evaluate his goals, and come back roaring, training even harder, focussing on his weaknesses with a laser like focus - so that he peaks again, rather than plateaus (by following the same program he has so far).
So many sub-elite athletes worry about overtraining. It's a rare phenomenon.
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Its not that uncommon and almost every trainer will tell you that the most important thing to do is rest enough when you are training. If you train once a week for 2 hours then you can't ramp that up to 5 days a week suddenly and not get the symptoms of overtraining. Overtraining is relative to what your body is capable of. An elite sport climber might be able to train 6 days a week and perform well every session but the average sport climber can't. Overtraining isn't just a physical issue either.
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You are both right because you are using the term differently.
'Proper' overtraining is rare and serious. Overdoing it is quite common and whilst not as serious, not a great idea either. Managing rest better is in different degree the solution to both.
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Duncan for me in these cases it's useful to have some tests to assess my shape.
finger boarding is one where I see if my performance gets worse.
Even better I have some boulder problems and circuits of middle difficulty which I know well. And I know how I should feel climbing them when in good shape.
If I still can do them quite easily it's a lack of motivation. It happens after trips or reaching some goal.
If I struggle to climb them I need to rest.
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This is why it's nice to use overreaching to differentiate from overtraining. Pushing hard for a few weeks is not overtraining!
P.s. its not that high a vol of training, its more q high volume of working!
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I may have missed it but not sure what age you are? I trained and climbed that sort of weekly frequency when I was younger and it felt fine; now it would likely finish me off. As others have said though look for variety in your training too and don't get too pulled in on the grades.
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This is why it's nice to use overreaching to differentiate from overtraining. Pushing hard for a few weeks is not overtraining!
P.s. its not that high a vol of training, its more q high volume of working!
Yes, probably quite right!
I'm with Stu and Barrows here, various points above.
It's fair to say however, that many people train too much, through fear of not training enough.
Training is about increasing your capacity to do work, and at any point, that capacity is finite.
On your recent climbing trip, it sounds as though you were rested and relaxed. Although you climbed for six days, it was fun, and you were able to peak. I.e. you weren't spreading yourself too thinly.
That's the point at which I'd have celebrated with extra beer, cake or curry. In fact, I'll wad you a point for preparing for your successful trip well :-)
The problem with "peaks" is often we don't see them as that, and want to view them as the new benchmark. As such, we try to keep hold of them; we're trying to avoid the emotional impact of the drop off that follows. That is a defensive approach which encourages fear of failure and a lack of a more enthusiastic approach to new and more positive goals.
I thought this post was a very good point:
Duncan for me in these cases it's useful to have some tests to assess my shape.
finger boarding is one where I see if my performance gets worse.
Even better I have some boulder problems and circuits of middle difficulty which I know well. And I know how I should feel climbing them when in good shape.
If I still can do them quite easily it's a lack of motivation. It happens after trips or reaching some goal.
If I struggle to climb them I need to rest.
..allowing for a degree of objectivity, to assess where you're really at.
A suggestion I'd make - it's something I often find very hard to do, given that exercise seems as important to me as it is you - rather than ripping up everything you're doing to begin with, just try taking three days off - maybe some light recovery stuff or an easy jog; plan to crush at the weekend (maybe not so much booze on the Friday night ;-) ). Just try it as a short term experiment.
I often find that a bit anxiety provoking, because it means letting go of my disappointment about a recent drop in form, but you probably need to assess your apparent form in the context of the amount of work you are doing. The shift in emphasis is away from organising your training around where you've been, but towards where you want to go.
Good luck !
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The problem with "peaks" is often we don't see them as that, and want to view them as the new benchmark. As such, we try to keep hold of them; we're trying to avoid the emotional impact of the drop off that follows. That is a defensive approach which encourages fear of failure and a lack of a more enthusiastic approach to new and more positive goals.
This.
And people. Overtraining is highly unlikely. I doubt Duncan would be able to get out of bed and get to work every day of the week if that's the case. Maybe overreaching, but that would surprise me as well, as most peoples “4 hours in the gym” seems to mostly consist of hanging around while doing very little climbing.
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To the OP - at the Works are you doing the same type of circuits/problems each visit? If I go to the wall three days on the bounce - I can firstly only manage 1-2 hours each time. Second, I vary what I do - e.g. day 1 loads of big holds large overhangs - big moves - works shoulders and core. Day 2 - crimpy vertical problems - work the fingers and Day 3 something different etc...
Isnt there also the adage of train until you just drop off your best - then stop. Many folk then have a cup of tea and get back on it 20-30 min later.. never sure if this helps you get better or not?
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I'm quite surprised at the reactions saying stu and barrows are on the money. I think people are missing the point that doing a hard outside job 10 hours a day in the middle of winter is in no way good for anything to do with constant training.
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It stands to reason the job isn't helping. What do you want him to do? Quit the job cos he's dropped a bouldering grade? You're Dave McLeod and I claim my £10.
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Slightly off-topic, mind if I ask what your job is Duncan?
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I don't want him to do anything other than what I've suggested. You and Alex have said in a not very round about way to man up he's not over exerting himself at all it's hard to over exert yourself no one does it. I'll not say over reach. I'm saying he'll be fucked, so don't worry about it and don't do too much.
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I think we're saying the same thing; his life is leaving him fucked and he won't climb as well. Don't worry about it.
It doesn't mean he has to exercise less, it just means he's the next Paul Reeve.
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The poor guy! :tease:
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I've seen many people have a delayed response to the fatigue of working/ training.
Once seen many people train too much, out of fear of not doing enough as others have said in this thread .
The hardest thing to handle though ( and to work out if this is the case) is if that dip in performance is not a dip, but just a return to your actual level, or the dip you should expect following an unsustainable unplanned peak. By unplanned I mean that you inadvertently created a peak, rather than intentionally riding that rollercoaster.
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Given all the varied opinions you've received on here I would pose the same question on the bike radar forum. Write both sets of answers down put them all in a hat, pick one out then go for it. :worms:
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Stu talks sense and people saying that training 3 days midweek is extreme are wimps.. Though your job sounds tiring as fuck!
I can't wait until you get one of those 'real' job things. You'll be amazed by what you just don't have time/energy for anymore.
Over-reached / Over-trained, does it really matter which here? The action in both is to do less (in varying degrees) until things are headed the correct direction?
Duncan - surely there's something else you like doing (or should be doing) other than climbing that can (temporarily) fill the void?
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One thing which I don't think anyone else has mentioned, is not to compare your own progression with that of those around you, and certainly not Rob or Michaela! You have a different background to them both in terms of what level of training they've been exposed to previously, plus their current training sessions are far more focussed and targeted, as opposed to "doing some circuits, and a few laps on the circuit board". I can't remember the last time I saw Rob at the Works when he was just doing a circuit.
Create your own self-assessment sheet, and use that as your yardstick, not Rob permanently-psyched Greenwood, or Michaela the-machine Tracey.
And never pay any attention to indoor grades. Outdoor grades are bad enough, but indoors are a lottery.
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Thanks for all the further replies everyone!
I ended up having a short 2 hour session at the foundry last night and think I felt a little better but only climbed new problems so can't tell for sure - my fingers certainly felt more up to speed. It did mean however I was home in good time and ate at a reasonable hour before then getting to bed early with lights out at 10:30
However, I am going to take the next three days off and do some life admin!
In answer to the various questions:
I'm 25, if I go to the works/foundry/wherever I tend to just go round trying to climb the hardest problems/routes I can I rarely try anything for an extended period in each night but will return to it at more sessions. I dont really vary hold type angle session to session as I just try various things within each session. basically very haphazard but also fun (until you stop improving)
I sort of feel that instead of peaking and then going back to my usual level that I peaked and am dropping below usual level. But my usual level was based on a less intensive working week - even though I used to build climbing walls which although was really hard physical work it was far from full-time and the rest of my time was spent either at home/climbing or walking around a nice warm hospital pushing beds around. before that I dossed around writing drivel for the other channel. plus i have only been below my usual level for maybe a month max - (this only applies to bouldering as obvs I matched my previous peak on my recent holiday) I probably just need to be more patient. I guess im just wanting to pre-empt this in case it is a trend and it affects my trad for the year!
Im now an environmental compliance officer (a whatnow?) for a wood recycling plant. Basically I walk around for much of the day sampling/taking readings/making sure the site isn't violating any regs. its rarely strenuous but I do a lot of walking and its just off the woodhead pass so up on the moors and flipping cold - today is the warmest its been in a while at 3 degrees! some of my time is spent in my office writing things up (going on UKB) - currently this is only heated by an electric convection heater so its not that warm in here.
Going forward Im going to try and make my evenings more efficient/effective/structured and probably have more weeks where I only climb tues/thurs. I reckon Ive sort of hit a peak from just climbing tons - E5 and 7c seem reasonable for this so maybe now I do actually have to at least be a little more structured...
Drew you make a good point there! I wasn't so much measuring progression against them as that would be ludicrous but they do both manage to climb a lot so maybe i didnt think i was doing too much...
will let y'all know how it goes!
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You're only at the stage of dipping your toe in the waters of climbing angst. Wait until you start seriously projecting 8s and training for trips. You'll know you're fucked when you start seeking clarification on ukb about rest times for Ancap.
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Or how deep beastmaker pockets are.
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Going forward Im going to try and make my evenings more efficient/effective/structured and probably have more weeks where I only climb tues/thurs. I reckon Ive sort of hit a peak from just climbing tons - E5 and 7c seem reasonable for this so maybe now I do actually have to at least be a little more structured...
25 was about the age I plateaued out climbing at the E5 and 7b level. It was a painful experience at the time and I thought that was it in terms of grade improvement. The incremental gains from here on in are nothing like as exciting as jumping from one grade to the next and can feel like a grind at times until you re-calibrate our expectations. Nowadays an improvement of 2 extra seconds on a deadhang is exciting. I used to hate structured training. Its why I started Fit Club on UKC to force myself into better training habits. Find out what works for you.
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You're only at the stage of dipping your toe in the waters of climbing angst. Wait until you start seriously projecting 8s and training for trips. You'll know you're fucked when you start seeking clarification on ukb about rest times for Ancap.
I've seeked out clarification of this on here before and I don't even climb in the 8's... there's no hope for me!
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Going forward Im going to try and make my evenings more efficient/effective/structured and probably have more weeks where I only climb tues/thurs. I reckon Ive sort of hit a peak from just climbing tons - E5 and 7c seem reasonable for this so maybe now I do actually have to at least be a little more structured...
25 was about the age I plateaued out climbing at the E5 and 7b level. It was a painful experience at the time and I thought that was it in terms of grade improvement. The incremental gains from here on in are nothing like as exciting as jumping from one grade to the next and can feel like a grind at times until you re-calibrate our expectations. Nowadays an improvement of 2 extra seconds on a deadhang is exciting. I used to hate structured training. Its why I started Fit Club on UKC to force myself into better training habits. Find out what works for you.
Yeah but that was 40 years ago and what with advances in training knowledge, a 25-year old nowadays is just getting started.
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Yeah but that was 40 years ago and what with advances in training knowledge, a 25-year old nowadays is just getting started.
40 !
(http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/Smileys/default/old_man_SMILEY.gif)
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35?
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Or how deep beastmaker pockets are.
Not even close, that wasn't angst. That was light diversion from thinking about how injured I am. I can't wait for days when I'll be able to worry about having to accurate assess my fingerboard performance!
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Bump!
https://www.t-nation.com/training/what-overtraining-is-and-isnt (https://www.t-nation.com/training/what-overtraining-is-and-isnt)
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Bump!
https://www.t-nation.com/training/what-overtraining-is-and-isnt (https://www.t-nation.com/training/what-overtraining-is-and-isnt)
at the wall i certainly see several individual's who are never recovering between sessions and are constantly trying to have a hard session, but instead just maintain a level of both ability and fatigue. whilst this goes against the definition of overtraining (in that link) in the purely sports science sense of the word, it still makes sense in that the individual is training too much/inefficintly and i can't think of any other concise description for that other than "over training"
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Under-resting? Badly planned training? Lack of variation? Stupidity?
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Bump!
https://www.t-nation.com/training/what-overtraining-is-and-isnt (https://www.t-nation.com/training/what-overtraining-is-and-isnt)
Been there done that, I think, in my grad student days when I was trying to pursue both climbing and martial arts. (Later I got a job and released it had to be one or the other, as recently discussed on another thread). I was going to karate training most evenings, going to the wall on evenings when I wasn’t doing karate, and doing circuit training or weights most lunchtimes. I wasn’t great at either climbing or karate, but I was gratifyingly lean and muscly. :lol:
… and, after a few months, had no appetite, wasn't sleeping well and generally felt washed out and listless. It took several weeks of resting / severely dialed back training to recover.
Interesting experience. You don’t have to be a super advanced elite athlete for it to happe to you. I wasn’t. In fact, if you persist in that state it probably guarantees that you won’t be. I was a penniless student and iirc vegetarian at the time too, so I wouldn’t entirely rule out protein / amino acid deficiencies having played a supporting role, but the main factor was just pushing it much too hard for a sustained period of time.
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Under-resting? Badly planned training? Lack of variation? Stupidity?
Pulling too hard too frequently :)
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