UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: cowboyhat on May 04, 2016, 04:22:21 pm
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I went to see a physio and he had me doing an exercise that I hadn't heard of before.
His exercise is a static hold at the top of the eccentric position with a lot of weight. Its important that the wrist is cocked or engaged slightly upwards.
I started with a 30 sec hold at 10kgs and worked up to all the weight that fits on the dumbbell at home which is 17kgs, doing 6 reps twice a day. As it gets easier increase the weight, not the time. When I started doing it the elbow angle was 90 degrees but as the injury improved I have opened the angle towards 120 and I now do the exercise at different angles.
With this static hold I saw immediate progress and after about four weeks it was like the tendonitis had been simply turned off.
Here is my blogpost about it which gives more context and a free photo of my wrist!
http://themightychickpea.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/a-treatment-for-elbow-tendonitis.html
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Cool.. Nice one. I notice in your pic that your thumb is wrapped around the bar - whereas for regular elbow eccentrics they recommend having the thumb under the bar. Was this specific - or just how it worked with all the weight etc..?
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What's the eccentric position? Can this be done whilst watching TV?
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Cool.. Nice one. I notice in your pic that your thumb is wrapped around the bar - whereas for regular elbow eccentrics they recommend having the thumb under the bar. Was this specific - or just how it worked with all the weight etc..?
It wasn't specified and he did spend time correcting my form.
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Two words:
Muscle
and
Activation
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That's three :p
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Two words:
Muscle
and
Activation
Please explain this Pete. Is it relevant to treating golfers elbow?
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Always interesting to hear these ideas and experiences.
If I've got this correct, four things have changed compared to the previous unsuccessful treatment: 1. the static hold instead of eccentric, 2. the greatly increased load, 3. the (different?) supplementary exercises for the shoulder, and - possibly - 4. the stage of healing of the problem, meaning it might just have been more ready to get better and perhaps would have done so with any kind of exercise.
Which are the active ingredients do we think?
Assuming there was local pathology, my bet is on the big increase in load. Physios. and patients often underestimate the load needed. How did the load compare with what you were previously doing?
Static loading is potentially more specific to climbing given the way the forearm muscles are working most of the time, so that may also contribute. I can certainly see the thinking behind suggesting this. Not sure if I follow why the wrist needs to be cocked (flexed).
I've suggested previously (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25837.msg487726.html#msg487726) that eccentric exercises may not be appropriate for climbers.
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Physios. and patients often underestimate the load needed. How did the load compare with what you were previously doing?
Static loading is potentially more specific to climbing given the way the forearm muscles are working most of the time, so that may also contribute. I can certainly see the thinking behind suggesting this. Not sure if I follow why the wrist needs to be cocked (flexed).
I've suggested previously (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25837.msg487726.html#msg487726) that eccentric exercises may not be appropriate for climbers.
That is more or less what the physio I went to said. Roughly speaking
'with eccentrics the load isn't enough. The elbow got injured having seventy kilos hanging off it so the weight needs to be a lot to make a difference and pull the tendon fibres back into line.'
I was doing eccentrics with only 4 or 5 kg, so not a lot.
Its a good point about the time between getting the injury and correcting it, it could have been getting better anyway. However in this case I'm sure it was this exercise that made the difference as nothing else in my habits changed.
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Two words:
Muscle
and
Activation
Please explain this Pete. Is it relevant to treating golfers elbow?
DYOR (D.Heel); I can't be arsed explaining it and then reading uninformed comment by people who think they know why a little bit of a rub shouldn't work.
Is it relevant to treating golfers elbow?
IME yes.
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Well thats cleared things up, thanks for your contribution.
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:google:
Or wait for Dave Macleod to discover it.
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Thanks for this,
bit of a niggle in my left elbow myself, so hopefully this will nip it in the bud before it turns serious
What rest times are you using between the 30s holds?
I went to see a physio and he had me doing an exercise that I hadn't heard of before.
His exercise is a static hold at the top of the eccentric position with a lot of weight. Its important that the wrist is cocked or engaged slightly upwards.
I started with a 30 sec hold at 10kgs and worked up to all the weight that fits on the dumbbell at home which is 17kgs, doing 6 reps twice a day. As it gets easier increase the weight, not the time. When I started doing it the elbow angle was 90 degrees but as the injury improved I have opened the angle towards 120 and I now do the exercise at different angles.
With this static hold I saw immediate progress and after about four weeks it was like the tendonitis had been simply turned off.
Here is my blogpost about it which gives more context and a free photo of my wrist!
http://themightychickpea.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/a-treatment-for-elbow-tendonitis.html
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What rest times are you using between the 30s holds?
About three minutes, i've never been that strict with the rest as I tend do it when pottering about or watching telly.
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Thanks
Myself I am a slave to the incessant beep of an interval timer
What rest times are you using between the 30s holds?
About three minutes, i've never been that strict with the rest as I tend do it when pottering about or watching telly.
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I find this stretch really good for my mild golfers / niggle. You feel it stretch when you bring the other shoulder back. Hold for 30-60 secs. I assume it works the shoulder, elbow and forearm...
https://vimeo.com/165560003 (https://vimeo.com/165560003)
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That's unsettling...
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That is interesting, thanks
I have been playing with the same, but with both hands on the wall, so not getting the additional stretch from moving the shoulder back
I find this stretch really good for my mild golfers / niggle. You feel it stretch when you bring the other shoulder back. Hold for 30-60 secs. I assume it works the shoulder, elbow and forearm...
https://vimeo.com/165560003 (https://vimeo.com/165560003)
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That's unsettling...
Yes, the kitchen is looking a bit clean....
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Two words:
Muscle
and
Activation
Please explain this Pete. Is it relevant to treating golfers elbow?
DYOR (D.Heel); I can't be arsed explaining it and then reading uninformed comment by people who think they know why a little bit of a rub shouldn't work.
Is it relevant to treating golfers elbow?
IME yes.
@petejh this sounds intriguing, but google/google scholar are drawing a blank on DYOR, D.Heel and muscle activation for me. I appreciate this is exactly the uninformed comment you can't be arsed reading, but if anyone has got any further from these cryptic clues, I'd be very interested.
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"D heel" "muscle" and "activation" should work. I think DYOR means do your own research, took me quite a few failed searches before that dawned on me . . .
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Interesting. I do normal eccentrics with 12.5kg and find a set of 15-20 no problem, although I do feel mild discomfort at the injury site so I guess it's doing something....
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https://muscleactivation.com/
https://muscleactivation.com/about-us/what-is-mat/
"Muscular flexibility is a derivative of strength. Muscle tightness is secondary to muscle weakness."
Just googled muscle activation. All this seems very relevant to exercises like weighted hangs (fingerboard). The technique seems to improve mobility and flexibility through better contraction. I use the same principles when stretching my legs (hamstrings etc) - on those odd occasions when I'm not too lazy.
Plenty of other reading to be done.
Thanks very much to Cowboy for making the effort to share your experIence, and thanks Tommy for your contributions too (Randall stretch).
+1 :beer2:
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The "Randall Stretch" should actually be called the "Haigh Stretch" as Drew seems to have shown it to Tom in the first place...
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The "Randall Stretch" should actually be called the "Haigh Stretch" as Drew seems to have shown it to Tom in the first place...
It doesn't work anyway. Rename to 'Laying Uncomfortably like Haigh and/or Randall'...?
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The "Randall Stretch" should actually be called the "Haigh Stretch" as Drew seems to have shown it to Tom in the first place...
It doesn't work for me anyway. Rename to 'Laying Uncomfortably like Haigh and/or Randall'...?
Seems to work quite well for me. I usually have to wriggle about for a while until I can feel the stretching in my elbows.
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The "Randall Stretch" should actually be called the "Haigh Stretch" as Drew seems to have shown it to Tom in the first place...
It doesn't work for me anyway. Rename to 'Laying Uncomfortably like Haigh and/or Randall'...?
Seems to work quite well for me. I usually have to wriggle about for a while until I can feel the stretching in my elbows.
You fell right into that one.