UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: deacon on January 22, 2017, 08:25:33 am
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I've searched through older posts and am still none the wiser (I am a bit dim though) when it comes to after climbing/recovery protein intake.
It's the new year so as I do every new year I've begun to lose some weight and started training again, but have been really struggling with recovery.
I've been having a couple of spoons of Chia Seeds in Greek yoghurt most sessions, or if I haven't had time to sort one out have had an 'ascent' protein shake with milk.
No matter what I google I get conflicting advice.
"Chia is the greatest protein superfood known to man"
"Whey protein is the best"
"Just drink milk"
"Protein powder gives you cancer"
Etc.
Also for climbing, surely we don't need as much as hardcore marathon runners
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You want protein that's easily digestible straight after a workout, whey is best and works out cheapest/g as well compared to eggs, fish, chicken, etc. Plus it's easiest just to swig down.
Discussed fairly recently: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,27471.0.html
If you're losing weight as well you need to up your protein intake to protect against muscle loss:
https://ylmsportscience.com/2014/10/26/nutrition-importance-of-protein-intake-in-managing-weight-loss-in-athletes-by-ylmsportscience/
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if you are struggling with recovery, you may want to add some carbs to your after workout snack/meal.
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This formula is used by some:
0.4g of protein
0.8g of carbs
per Kg of body-weight,
per hour exercised.
It's aimed more at running/swimming/cycling, which use larger muscle groups than climbing.
Ideally within an hour of finishing training.
The Anderson brothers cite a couple of studies that recommend a higher ratio of carbs:protein 4:1, at a slightly lower per Kg of body-weight. Taken within 2 hrs post-training for optimal glycogen replenishment. In their words 'massive glycogen loading (like that done by endurance athletes) isn't required'
For me @ 65Kg that means between a high-side of 26/52 grams of protein/carbs (long endurance session), to the lower Anderson bro's recommendation of 9/36 grams protein/carbs (typical training session of 1-2 hrs).
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Cheers for the replies. Seems as though I'm not too far off the mark as it is.
How about differences in natural foods and powder?
Protein shakes would be a whole lot simpler for me, but are they bad for me/ going to give me cancer/ make me skint.
It seems they come in a wide variety of types and prices all claiming to be the best.
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I use the flavourless/colourless whey option from Myprotein, which has fewer additives than any of the flavoured ones. I find them all too sickly sweet as well. I'd definitely recommend this one if you don't have a desperately sweet tooth. Mixed in with water it just tastes fairly similar to milk. I don't think that anything in it could really be bad for you (their website shows the ingredients list.)
I used rice protein powder for a while but the taste was really grim.
I've always been put massively off Chia and some other options by the kcal from fat in them. I want protein shakes to be max % protein (whey is 80-90%) as possible so that I can be as flexible as possible with the rest of my diet.
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if you don't have a desperately sweet tooth.
You've not met Deacon then?
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Mixed in with water it just tastes fairly similar to milk.
Serious question, if you mix it with milk what's it taste like?
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Milk2
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I'm hoping the answer is single cream.
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Why not just drink milk?
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Milk2
MilkyMilky
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don't believe him, it tastes nothing like milk.
however, after about 10 of them, they start tasting "alright". Up until then you'll wonder why you didn't buy flavoured.
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Another genuine question, I also appear to be dim about this.
Leaving aside the milk/protein powder/single cream decision on protein, what do people do about the carb requirement? Even based on the lower Anderson ratio from PeteJH's post, a three hour session would mean about 140 grams of carbs. I was thinking that would be a sandwich but according to google, I would need about three . . .
(it may be this kind of thinking that has led to my being 75kg in the first place . . .)
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big fuckoff flapjack?
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I would love to think that the answer to my nutritional needs is a flapjack the size of a shoe box every other day. I may stop reading this thread now to preserve that advice.
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What's your priority petekitso?
If weight loss, then eat less. (keep protein up, etc)
If recovery, then eating a bit more is going to be essential. Also sleep and all that stuff.
Personally I'm not sold on the narrow window and I don't believe that climbing burns many calories either so not persuaded by the eat-like-phelps advice that is out there. But if I was someone who habitually under-ate or forgot to eat (apparently such people do exist :o) then it would be helpful to have a reminder to do so.
But as a natural fat knacker I don't need to be reminded to eat and I'll never need to resort to drinking my calories in order to hit my numbers for the day! You have to be your own judge...
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I don't really have any particular priority. I have never really thought about specifically eating after climbing other than occasionally thinking I will have a tuna rather than a cheese sandwich. I have certainly never forgotten to eat . . .
I was reading the thread wondering whether I should give it a go and see if I notice a difference but couldn't work out how I could get the requisite carbs without Phelps style pizza and pasta (which would be impractical on the train home) How people who do observe that guidance get the required carbohydrates? I feel like there must be a carb rich foodgroup that I am missing . . .
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I don't really have any particular priority. I have never really thought about specifically eating after climbing other than occasionally thinking I will have a tuna rather than a cheese sandwich. I have certainly never forgotten to eat . . .
couldn't work out how I could get the requisite carbs without Phelps style pizza and pasta (which would be impractical on the train home)
Try harder! (http://mashable.com/2016/04/26/ordering-pizza-on-a-train/#uMqEKae3suqG) :clown:
How people who do observe that guidance get the required carbohydrates? I feel like there must be a carb rich foodgroup that I am missing . . .
:beer2: :beer2: :beer2: :beer2: :clown:
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...Phelps style pizza and pasta (which would be impractical on the train home)...
If anyone's tempted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw8iljkD1So (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw8iljkD1So)
:sick:
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Eat a tin of rice pudding. Seriously, check out the protein content on the label!
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Mixed in with water it just tastes fairly similar to milk.
Serious question, if you mix it with milk what's it taste like?
Sorry, only just got back to this threas.
Milk^2 would be fairly good description!
And it really does taste like milk.
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Finally a training regimen I can get behind. I will start on the post-climbing pizza, lager and rice pudding and report back when I am floating up 8as in time for the summer
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Another genuine question, I also appear to be dim about this.
Leaving aside the milk/protein powder/single cream decision on protein, what do people do about the carb requirement? Even based on the lower Anderson ratio from PeteJH's post, a three hour session would mean about 140 grams of carbs. I was thinking that would be a sandwich but according to google, I would need about three . . .
(it may be this kind of thinking that has led to my being 75kg in the first place . . .)
''For me @ 65Kg that means between a high-side of 26/52 grams of protein/carbs (long endurance session), to the lower Anderson bro's recommendation of 9/36 grams protein/carbs (typical training session of 1-2 hrs).''
By that I meant I'd try to take roughly 50 grams of carbs (15g protein) following a long endurance sesh.
Or around 35 grams carbs (10g protein) for a typical 1-2 hr sesh of bouldering, moonboard, ancap, whatever.
In reality this is only a snickers bar or two, or a full or half banana, or an amount of chocolate milk, or whatever else sugary snack food is available. Plus a handful of nuts or a salami stick or some other horrid processed crap. As long as muscles are demanding replenishment and are going to use the intake of carbs straight away I don't see the need for anything fancier than simple refined sugars and whatever protein's available.
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...roughly 50 grams of carbs (15g protein) following a long endurance sesh....
Guessing it's a typo and you mean 25g protein in the above snip Pete?
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No I'd go 4:1 carbs/protein as recommended by Andersons.
(In reality I don't obsess over the exact amount, it depends what's available at home or over the nearest counter. It's just a guideline).
The 2:1 ratio with slightly higher amounts of carb/protein per Kg of bodyweight is one recommended for endurance sports.
That's just a post-training snack btw, not a meal. I'd also have a meal later. Though I rarely/never count what goes in that, regards carbs/protein. I just try to eat lots of veg.
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Ah right - so you're not multiplying the carb requirement calculation by hours right PeteJH? Thanks for clarifying
(I knew this pizza advice couldn't last)