UKBouldering.com
places to visit => uk and eire => Topic started by: matt463 on June 19, 2022, 11:11:39 am
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Looking for some suggestions on some great secluded scottish beaches. Planning a trip in the autumn. Mainly as just a family holiday but if there happened to be some excellent boulders there too it would be ideal. Does anyone have any knowledge?
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Sandwood Bay. Never actually done the bouldering but the beach is beautiful.
Shiegra?
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Looking for some suggestions on some great secluded scottish beaches. Planning a trip in the autumn. Mainly as just a family holiday but if there happened to be some excellent boulders there too it would be ideal. Does anyone have any knowledge?
It's quite a large place :) so give us a clue....North, South, East or the other one? Highlands? Islands?
All these places have pros & cons.
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Loads of fun coastal bouldering in Scotland, of the ones I have visited...
Primrose bay is great with kids. Lovely sandy beach and some fun bouldering.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD814tODlgy/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Also Cummingston is just down the coast with loads more good problems and great rock pooling.
Both these venues are generally midge free being on the east coast.
Down South in Dumfries Thirlstane is good with kids and has some fun bouldering in a lovely and unique sandstone cave.
Garheaugh is also nice however a rocky beach.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg_AzQAh_Qv/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
In the far North Shiegra has a lovely beach at the campsite. The bouldering though is not exactly easily accessible with a v diff downclimb and crossing house sized blocs above some big drops. It is a stunning spot though with some amazing blocs.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEH0gdIjfiK/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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Looking for some suggestions on some great secluded scottish beaches. Planning a trip in the autumn. Mainly as just a family holiday but if there happened to be some excellent boulders there too it would be ideal. Does anyone have any knowledge?
It's quite a large place :) so give us a clue....North, South, East or the other one? Highlands? Islands?
All these places have pros & cons.
No preference at this stage to be honest. Interested in finding a great spot and happy to drive as far as needed.
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Loads of fun coastal bouldering in Scotland, of the ones I have visited...
Primrose bay is great with kids. Lovely sandy beach and some fun bouldering.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD814tODlgy/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Also Cummingston is just down the coast with loads more good problems and great rock pooling.
Both these venues are generally midge free being on the east coast.
Down South in Dumfries Thirlstane is good with kids and has some fun bouldering in a lovely and unique sandstone cave.
Garheaugh is also nice however a rocky beach.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg_AzQAh_Qv/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
In the far North Shiegra has a lovely beach at the campsite. The bouldering though is not exactly easily accessible with a v diff downclimb and crossing house sized blocs above some big drops. It is a stunning spot though with some amazing blocs.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEH0gdIjfiK/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
These are some great suggestions! Thanks!
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Also I should mention that the campsite at Hopeman was ace. Right on the beach. Cool little beach bar restaurant and walking distance to both Primrose bay and Cummingston.
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Maybe consider Mull. Some lovely beaches and a variety of different venues and rock types.Loch Buie is special.
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Can't believe I forgot about Mull. Probably because it was pre kids and seems a lifetime ago! Loch Buie was an ace little spot and I remember the beach being nice (need to watch out for the free roaming Highland cattle though!)
Also the campsite at Fidden Farm is amazing with loads of granite outcrops (make sure you have good skin!) close by including Kintra and Erriad. Also the beach has that stunning white sand and clear waters that make the Scottish West coast so special.
Another spot I forgot to mention is Ardmair beach. Fun sandstone roof right next to the road and a massive stoney beach that gets deep really quick so good for swimming. It is an ideal spot for a quick stop if travelling North on the road from Ullapool.
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Ardmair is ok, Mrs S and her pals swim there a couple of times a week but maybe stretches the defenition of 'secluded'!
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This thread has got Fiend written all over it
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Achmelvich beach, near Lochinver, has some decent bouldering up to about 6c. Primarily though it's a stunning beach in a beautiful area.
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Thanks for the suggestions. One of the main reasons for needing seclusion is a not very sociable rescue staffy I have. Had previously considered placing a small bit of gear or building an anchor to make sure he can’t chase stuff
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The SMC guide mentions Slaggan on the Rubha Mor peninsula as having good bouldering, but I don't know much about it. Also if you have an unsociable staffy I wouldn't recommend Primrose Bay, there are always people walking into and out of the cave leading to the main bouldering area and it's quite a busy beach.
There is also Roseheaty near Fraserburgh which is more on a rock platform than a beach, but has a lot of easy stuff to do on your own and for kids, and is generally very quiet.
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Ardnamurchan has a couple of options.
The well known wall at Sanna is nice juggy highball diorite, but you will probably see other people.
I found a new spot about a mile up the coast from the same parking, near the trad crag Rubha Carrach. I was only there for a few hours and have recorded the better things I did on UKC https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/rubha_carrach-11544/#photos . Glass Mantel and Glass Arete are excellent. There looked to be another ten or twenty lines to add. Generally it's perfect sandy landings. The rock is solid gabbro, some of it sea worn glassy smooth stuff. Mixture of high and lowballs and traversing. Very secluded, you're unlikely to see anyone else, except maybe kayakers. Views over to the small islands are stunning. Partially tidal, pick a mid to low tide if you want to enjoy the white sand beach.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CeQQ5NajQ0K/?hl=en
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There is also some stiff on the crags and buttresses on and around Polin Beach near Oldshormore. It's always a lot quieter than the main beach.
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Probably because it's slightly further from the car park.
I'm not complaining.
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There is also some stiff on the crags and buttresses on and around Polin Beach near Oldshormore. It's always a lot quieter than the main beach.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ;)
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lol. Like it's ever going to get busy even if you publicise it in every single available place.
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https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/701361447 (https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/701361447)
Plenty other low grade shite vids of the far north on my Vimeo, also check out the map section on UKC around the coastline of that area.
I get a wee cottage up this way once or twice a year for me and the family{4yr old and 4 week old} and it is absolutely perfect IF the weather is good and there is NO midge.
The bouldering/climbing is great, we also swim, snorkel ,walk, surf, and all the rest.
Please support local accommodation, shops, bars, restaurants etc over the NC500 shitshow.
Sheigra honour campsite is now closed to vehicles because of this :(
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Sheigra honour campsite is now closed to vehicles because of this :(
Shit, really? The one past the cemetery? That's really sad if so... In general I've only seen pretty good behaviour when I've stayed. But it doesn't take many incidents to spoil it...
I know this is preaching to choir, but for those visiting these areas it is so worth going the extra mile to be considerate, have a chat with the locals (and drop heavy hints that climbers are a good bunch where suitable ;)). Small acts might make up for the shit show that they see day to day.
I was in Torridon post office recently and the view on boulderers when I asked if they had the guide in stock wasn't all that positive...
On a more positive note, I'd second loch buie. They've got a perfect wee (basic) campsite now, great coffee at the old post office, and well kept loos. Lots of sheep around so mind the dog.
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Sheigra honour campsite is now closed to vehicles because of this :(
I was in Torridon post office recently and the view on boulderers when I asked if they had the guide in stock wasn't all that positive...
Really? That's very odd. The owner,Jo, has always been great in the 18 years we've been going there. She would often text us a boots-on-the-ground forecast including wind direction once we explained the drying principles. A lovely woman, I wonder what's changed? I know she hates bad campervan behaviour of all persuasions. And contrary to what the tourism industry would tell you hates the NC 500 with a vengeance......
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Yup, the farm track is closed at the cemetery which is fine for us day trippers who don't mind a walk to the crags/boulders/beach but it completely buggers the responsible travelling climber staying quietly overnight. Last time i was there and it was open i saw at least 20 campervans on the machair, totally chewed up, fire rings etc.
Quite glad its closed so the delicate habitat can recover a little.
It is well worth investing in litter pickers and doing a proper beach clean if your there and as Alex suggests make it obvious your climbers and gain support from the locals.
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Thanks a bunch for the tips. Would have never anticipated the potential (justified) animosity towards campervan folk too. I think we'll most likely be looking for some sort of site with facilities anyway, but its good to know.
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Sheigra honour campsite is now closed to vehicles because of this :(
Well that's sad and sadly predictable. Chalk another up to inconsiderate vanlifers :(
I was going to suggest to the OP it wouldn't be a great place to bring an unsociable dog but it seems that is all academic now.
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Excellent posts.
I guess to a certain extent this all depends on what sort of bouldering you're after. There are plenty of sandy beaches with relatively undocumented bits of rock that you can entertain yourself and kids on for an hour or two all over Scotland. But if you're after developed and documented and secluded it'll be a shorter list.
If you're after somewhere that its very unlikely you'll see anyone else, then I agree with Chris that this probably rules out Primrose Bay, Cummingston and Ardmair Beach. Possibly Garheugh and Thirlstane too, although that's not an area I know. Saying that, on a quiet day I imagine you could have most Scottish crags to yourself, so who knows...
I visited Larbrax in Galloway last year. Great beach and easily big enough to find seclusion. Fair bit of rock and plenty to explore, although I thought the documented bouldering wasn't that great (the trad routes were great).
Sanna at Ardnamurchan? Although no guarantee of seclusion. Bonjoy's offering round the coast sounds great though.
Arisaig Cave? Although not much for kids.
Sand Bay, north of Applecross village fits the bill for beach and bouldering, but you're in proper NC500 territory there so maybe not seclusion.
I'll keep thinking...
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Dumfries and Galloway is always a quiet bit of Scotland. Just doesn't attract that many tourists. Maybe doesn't quite have the appeal of the highlands, but I think it is really nice. Excellent mountain biking too.
I'd be very surprised if you met any else at Garheugh. Some good bouldering there and a nice (but pebbly beach).
At the Thirlstane you'll probably see other walkers but I would doubt climbers. Beach is big and sandy, and nice bouldering.
I've never been to Sandyhills, but that would probably fit the bill too. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/sandyhills-9050/
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Yea to be honest the dog is 100% mellow around anything other than other dogs. But he has a cool dog backpack that I load him into when in busy spots (the pointing and staring from passers by never gets old when carrying a 30kg+ staffie in a backpack).
Also, I'm perfectly happy visiting a place with undocumented bits of rock.
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I've never been to Sandyhills, but that would probably fit the bill too. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/sandyhills-9050/
Sandyhills beach is one of the most popular in D&G, complete with pat parking area. You could probably get some seclusion id you walked a wee bit though. I think Garheugh or even Thirlstane you would be unlikely to have anyone else there on a weekday. I did think of Sand Bay too, but never actually been myself.
Sad about honesty campsite at Sheigra, but not unexpected. is the field next to the toilets at Oldshoremore still treated as an ad-hoc campsite? I've not been in years.
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Not sure about Oldshoremore but there has been a significant amount of No Overnight Parking signs recently all around the NW.
I believe that it is possible to overnight and encouraged at the old pier in Kinlochbervie.
Low cost and toilets/ water.
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Realise I've not been since NC 500, not sure I'd want to.
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Autumn, winter and early spring are still good.
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Autumn for surf, had some cracking sessions at Oldshoremore.
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Yea to be honest the dog is 100% mellow around anything other than other dogs. But he has a cool dog backpack that I load him into when in busy spots (the pointing and staring from passers by never gets old when carrying a 30kg+ staffie in a backpack).
I do think we need visual proof of this....
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Thirlstane is great but there are always people walking dogs around there. I was there today and there was 4 other climbers. That's pretty unusual though.
Garheugh is also excellent bouldering and almost always much quieter.
Sandyhills always has people out walking dogs as well
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Last summer we stayed in the campsite at Durness. Lovely spot, nice campsite, and great beaches all around. There has been some nice bouldering developed at Rispond (just east of Durness) in the last couple of years. And you can get from there to a number of good climbing areas already mentioned very easily (Sheigra and the surrounding areas)
The Ross of Mull is an amazing spot too. Fidden Farm is the campsite, which I believe is great (think I was 4 when we last went there). There is some climbing around there too (Fionphort and some other areas not very well documented) but I believe the rock is ROUGH. Bonjoy did some cool looking things on an erratic block around there, but I can't remember where. Have wanted to make a trip for a while.
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https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/local/traigh-a-mhill-argyll-and-bute
Not far south east of Knockvologan which is mentioned in the Scottish bouldering guide.
There is typical Mull granite there but the best bouldering is on a dark fine grained rock which looks like metamorphosed sandstone, possibly psammite.
I'd really like to go back and do some more there.
The bouldering is mostly non tidal.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEomH77jCs0/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
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https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/701361447 (https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/701361447)
Sheigra honour campsite is now closed to vehicles because of this :(
Ah, man. Of all the once-wonderful places fucked by the NC500, this makes me sadder than most.
Achmelvich last summer broke my heart too.
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https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/701361447 (https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/701361447)
Sheigra honour campsite is now closed to vehicles because of this :(
Ah, man. Of all the once-wonderful places fucked by the NC500, this makes me sadder than most.
Achmelvich last summer broke my heart too.
John Muir Trust who own and run Sandwood Estate including Sheigra Honour campsite must have thought long and hard about this decision, its not like they are some irate local crofter or absentee landlord only in it for the tax relieve. Shows how bad things must have gone.
NC500 sucks, interestingly as the years pass i hear less and less support for it but little is done to stop/hinder or avert its impact.
Maybe the only way at the moment is just to close everything of value off to the uneducated masses?
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NC500 sucks, interestingly as the years pass i hear less and less support for it but little is done to stop/hinder or avert its impact.
Genie's out of the bottle, but closures would be far worse. We're all the uneducated masses. The only positive way forward I can see is the development of better facilities to cope with the traffic.
Sometimes I console myself that it's nothing new, old Lake District residents must remember when it was quieter there too. But then that's been a sheep farm beyond living memory, there's something more tragic about secluded machair beaches.
We are too many!
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It actually seems a bit quieter this year. Don't know if it's fuel prices or it's been a victim of its own "success".
I have overhead some tourists moaning how busy it is!
There are still quiet places and seasons but have to agree with Andy, it's heartbreaking.
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Depressing. Got fond memories of amazing surf and climbing trips up that way in pre-kids era, and planning to start going back more often now the kids are old enough to really appreciate it all and get involved, but not sure i want to now.
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It actually seems a bit quieter this year. Don't know if it's fuel prices or it's been a victim of its own "success".
I have overhead some tourists moaning how busy it is!
There are still quiet places and seasons but have to agree with Andy, it's heartbreaking.
Shite weather on the west coast this season too?
I'm all too aware when I moan about how busy it is that I'm a tourist too, just one that feels I have a more meaningful connection to these places than queuing in a white goods cavalcade to 'do' the sights.
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Sure, the weather has been guff and I suppose the schools haven't broken up yet....
It wasn't a dig at you re.moaning tourists remark by the way! I just reread my post and it might seem like that. We're all tourists somewhere, I'm pretty hopeful that most folk on this site are aware of their impact.
TheLandWept website is depressing viewing.
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Maybe with overseas travel now pretty much unrestricted for the first summer in 3 years, people are opting for their usual sunspots.
I'd like to think so too andy, going there with a specific goal to do something, rather than driving it in as little time as possible and "ticking " the sights. I was on the NC 500 facebook group for a while, but it was too depressing.
Fortunately the NE 250 seems to have failed to attract the same level of interest.
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It wasn't a dig at you re.moaning tourists remark by the way! I just reread my post and it might seem like that. We're all tourists somewhere, I'm pretty hopeful that most folk on this site are aware of their impact.
Don't worry, I didn't take it as such! Just aware that the irony of it applies somewhat to me too.
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NC500 sucks, interestingly as the years pass i hear less and less support for it but little is done to stop/hinder or avert its impact.
Genie's out of the bottle, but closures would be far worse. We're all the uneducated masses. The only positive way forward I can see is the development of better facilities to cope with the traffic.
Sometimes I console myself that it's nothing new, old Lake District residents must remember when it was quieter there too. But then that's been a sheep farm beyond living memory, there's something more tragic about secluded machair beaches.
We are too many!
I agree to a large extent, but...
Historically speaking the highlands are kind of 'artificially' under inhabited and quiet due to the clearances. You only have to observe the huge quantity of abandoned crofts in truly remote areas all over the place to wonder how things would be if this had never happened. Presumably many of these crofts would now be villages, there would be many more roads and tourist numbers would be huge. If it weren't for a brutal historic act of mass theft and cruelty things would probably be so much worse.
Maybe I have a different perspective on crowded, coming from living on the edge of the peak district. Mostly on the west coast I see pockets of crowding around campsites, towns, popular roadside instragramy photo locations, and very easily accessible beaches, but it's generally quiet to the point of empty within 10-30 mins walk of these places, and lets face it most of Scotland is a lot further than 10-30 mins walk from a tourist hotspot.
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In my couple of trips around Torridon the last few years, which were in spring and autumn, I didn't see what all the fuss was about regarding overcrowing/busyness etc. It was still quieter than any non scottish national park would be 80% of the time and solitude was all but guaranteed if one walked for 5 minutes.
I do get that it will have changed from how it used to be but my honest perception was it wasn't that bad.
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Spring and autumn are usually much quieter.
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Historically speaking the highlands are kind of 'artificially' under inhabited and quiet due to the clearances.
I would have thought that the clearances happened too long ago to have any influence on the current human geography of the region, if anything it may have even led to an increase in development on the coastal fringes that are part of the NC 500 route as a lot of the displaced people were moved to marginal coastal crofts. The influences of industrialisation and general decline in rural population across the UK, decline in fishing (especially herring) and world wars possibly all played a significant part. Who knows, we can but speculate.
Yes, the crowding is nothing like the popular tourist centres in the English NPs, but it's the relatively sudden increase in popularity caused by the promotion of the NC500 and the restrictions on international holidays that have increased pressure on the region, and the physical geography of the area makes infrastructure improvements complicated and costly.
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Obviously it's all speculation. As you say there are other causes of depopulation in rural areas e.g. potato famine in Ireland. To my eye though the shear quantity of abandoned ruins suggest that even if there had been decline due to other factors a significant number of places would have survived and gone on to seed rural population centres and infrastructure. I can't think of anywhere else with quite as many abandoned rural dwellings, here or abroad.
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I didn't see what all the fuss was about regarding overcrowing/busyness etc.
Shifting baseline syndrome perhaps? If you come from England you're probably used to there being hundreds of people everywhere! I'm always shocked how busy places like the Peak are (and how trashed the popular venues are). Being a grumpy old fart I remember the days when you'd never see another soul at Torridon, now that would be rare. So long as everyone looks after the place and is respectful it's grand, but it's inevitable that with more people comes more arseholes.
And as SA Chris said, it's not that tourism and busyness are bad per se, its the speed at which it has occurred and the lack of planning to accomodate or mitigate for it.
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Yeah we were in Torridon/Applecross last May half term and it didn’t seem busy to me. But my base line is the Peak District and the Lakes!
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I am less concerned about small numbers of climbers/boulderers visiting as they tend to have a reasonable idea of how to behave in terms of impact on specific areas.
I do have an issue with massive campervans, convoys of sports cars and Bikes jamming up single track roads across the Highlands, using/spoiling areas and facilities not designed for those numbers.
Highland Council recently made a statement announcing that they could no longer repair or attend to the road network, remembering that it is the largest council area in Scotland with a labyrinth of rural roads with the smallest budget.
How about we tax some of the Billionaire Estate owners specifically to fix/improve the infrastructure in the Highlands....Oh No we cant because we don't actually know who owns most of Scotland.
I Don't buy the "its not that busy" argument as it doesn't address the underlying issues or make it right.
There are great examples of responsible controlled tourism around the world that we could with a bit of thought and agreement implement so that future generations can experience the awe inspiring wildness of our fab wee part of the world.
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Think its definitely a shifting baseline thing. I take your point re planning and mitigation but I do also think the NC500 has proved more popular than anyone thought, alongside the covid enforced imperative to holiday at home. Infrastructure always lags behind development; just look at housing example; houses get built, then schools and roads get improved to suit the new traffic levels. I would agree this isnt ideal but my point is more that its not unique.
How about we tax some of the Billionaire Estate owners specifically to fix/improve the infrastructure in the Highlands....Oh No we cant because we don't actually know who owns most of Scotland.
I Don't buy the "its not that busy" argument as it doesn't address the underlying issues or make it right.
I would be totally on board with this, both in England and Scotland, but its pie in the sky stuff as things stand (we don't know who owns England either). I guess my point is that compared to the effects of tourism on the Peak I actually think the highlands is pretty low priority, the numbers involved are an order of magnitude different. Yeah, it doesn't make it right, but a lot of the criticism of the NC500 I see (not on here, more on the FB group) smacks to me, as an outsider, more of locals being upset they don't have it to themselves anymore than anything else. The same attitude was on display in the english National Parks during the last few years of covid.
That said, if I could turn the clock back I wouldn't go ahead with the NC500 either! I just think these things are probably viewed very differently by Highlands residents than by those visiting, as is inevitable. The Lakes is probably the closest thing to a corollary in England; small roads with too much traffic, poor nfrastructure etc, but as a frequent visitor there, outside of honeypots I think things are broadly ok there too. I'm sure the Lakes locals would profoundly disagree but I don't see theres a lot that can be done beyond making massive roads?
I live in Manchester and the roads are shite here too, getting anywhere at rush hour takes forever and public transport is dross. This affects more people every day than overcrowding in the Highlands or Lakes in the summer; to play devils advocate, what should be the priority? Ultimately the problem is too many people and short of a China style one child policy I don't see too many solutions.
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Most locals are also aggreived by the NC500 as it doesn't contribute much money to the local economy. Most money goes into Inshes Tesco or large hospitality groups that are buying up establishments all over the route. Add in to that aggresive tax avoidance, and no extra money is generated for Highland Council to maintain single track roads, empty overflowing bins, clean toilets and showers blocked up by people emptying chemical bogs into them, cleaning up dumped tents, and fighting fires caused by people having uncontrolled wild campfires despite the Highlands once again being very dry this year. A tourist tax would help to alleviate this, but it's hard to implement for those staying in campervans.
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I Don't buy the "its not that busy" argument as it doesn't address the underlying issues or make it right.
Is there an argument being made that it's not too busy? I'm only saying 'busy' is massively relative/subjective, very location specific, and inevitably coloured by people's previous experience/expectation of numbers. Couldn't agree more though that places will feel subjectively busier and more pressured where facilities are inadequate.
I think part of the increased popularity of Scotland is also related to people wishing to holiday in the UK instead of flying abroad, in an effort to reduce their personal carbon footprint. Which inevitably imposes a cost (and some benefits) on the areas seeing more visitors, but is I expect something most people would see as a net positive for society and the environment.
Also what spidermonkey90 said.
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We're all straying off topic now. matt 463, don't let our ramblings put you off, if you come in late Autumn, based on a good forecast, once the midgies have subsided you will have a fantastic time.
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Here's some Scottish beach bouldering that probably won't be busy... https://scottishbloc.com/2022/06/22/st-andrews-bouldering/
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The most popular tourist town in Scotland? Sure the beach might be quiet, but you still need to find somewhere to park. Looks like a nice wee spot though. Reminds me, there are a few tidal blocks beneath Pittenweem i found, but never climbed.
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The most popular tourist town in Scotland? Sure the beach might be quiet, but you still need to find somewhere to park. Looks like a nice wee spot though. Reminds me, there are a few tidal blocks beneath Pittenweem i found, but never climbed.
Well said we are way off topic.
St Andrew's "World class" bouldering, Really?
Pittenweem's a shitehole of a town much like the rest of the East Neuk, don't go there.
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Historically speaking the highlands are kind of 'artificially' under inhabited and quiet due to the clearances. You only have to observe the huge quantity of abandoned crofts in truly remote areas all over the place to wonder how things would be if this had never happened. Presumably many of these crofts would now be villages, there would be many more roads and tourist numbers would be huge. If it weren't for a brutal historic act of mass theft and cruelty things would probably be so much worse.
Maybe I have a different perspective on crowded, coming from living on the edge of the peak district. Mostly on the west coast I see pockets of crowding around campsites, towns, popular roadside instragramy photo locations, and very easily accessible beaches, but it's generally quiet to the point of empty within 10-30 mins walk of these places, and lets face it most of Scotland is a lot further than 10-30 mins walk from a tourist hotspot.
Sorry to indulge the :off: but...
It's probably true that the Highlands would be more densely populated if not for the Clearances (though as pointed out it's hard to say to what extent given other historical and geographical contingencies), but irrespective of root causes, is it wrong to have a preference for an experience of seclusion to crowds? Is the perpetual traffic jam that is how I usually experience England in some way preferable because it's a more just or 'natural' way of things? Yes it could be worse, but I'm not sure bearing in mind the Clearances while sitting behind a motorhome trundling along at 20 on a singletrack makes me feel any happier about it!
You are right of course, that it's not hard to get away from the crowds. They're just a pain in the arse.
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...is it wrong to have a preference for an experience of seclusion to crowds? Is the perpetual traffic jam that is how I usually experience England in some way preferable because it's a more just or 'natural' way of things? Yes it could be worse, but I'm not sure bearing in mind the Clearances while sitting behind a motorhome trundling along at 20 on a singletrack makes me feel any happier about it!
Nobody (on here) prefers it busy.
The point regards the clearances is that, given there nothing you/we can do to change numbers (except stay at home and reduce the crowd by one), it might be a source of blood pressure lowering perspective, to contemplate, while stuck behind #NC500wanker, that things would likely be much worse were it not for some evil bastards back in the day.
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Here's some Scottish beach bouldering that probably won't be busy... https://scottishbloc.com/2022/06/22/st-andrews-bouldering/
Nope, it looks like they have been forgotten since I climbed the very same problems 20 years ago
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that things would likely be much worse were it not for some evil bastards back in the day.
It would also look profoundly different. The clearances were enacted to enable a different type of land management (to make money), including things like developing large scale sheep farming and hunting/shooting/fishing preserves. A previous comment discussed the 'spoiling of the machair', but whenever I go to Sheigra there are always sheep grazing: all this land is (in a sense) already 'spoiled'.
That aside, I was indeed shocked last Summer. I've spent part of every year since I was born in the North West, and it was absolute carnage last year. I like Bonjoy's left-learning optimism that this related to carbon footprint: I think difficulties with flights to the Costa del Sol was the real culprit. And so I do think this will ease. Perhaps not to what it was before, but ease nonetheless. Once the 'fad' people have done it once, are they really going to do it again?
And Sheigra typically avoided the majority of this traffic because its not on the NC500. I've always noticed the drop in traffic when turning off from Rhiconich. So I expect things will turn back to normal. If vehicles are banned, can we still park at the cemetery and walk in with our kit to camp? Or is the campsite closed fully?
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Once the 'fad' people have done it once, are they really going to do it again?
I sometimes think this about the Three Peaks Challenge: hasn't everyone who wants to do the fucking thing done it by now?! But they keep coming... :shrug:
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that things would likely be much worse were it not for some evil bastards back in the day.
It would also look profoundly different. The clearances were enacted to enable a different type of land management (to make money), including things like developing large scale sheep farming and hunting/shooting/fishing preserves. A previous comment discussed the 'spoiling of the machair', but whenever I go to Sheigra there are always sheep grazing: all this land is (in a sense) already 'spoiled'.
That aside, I was indeed shocked last Summer. I've spent part of every year since I was born in the North West, and it was absolute carnage last year. I like Bonjoy's left-learning optimism that this related to carbon footprint: I think difficulties with flights to the Costa del Sol was the real culprit. And so I do think this will ease. Perhaps not to what it was before, but ease nonetheless. Once the 'fad' people have done it once, are they really going to do it again?
And Sheigra typically avoided the majority of this traffic because its not on the NC500. I've always noticed the drop in traffic when turning off from Rhiconich. So I expect things will turn back to normal. If vehicles are banned, can we still park at the cemetery and walk in with our kit to camp? Or is the campsite closed fully?
:???:
I'm certainly not suggesting the clearances were a good thing for people or the land. Just that the Highlands would be more populated and more tourist friendly, therefore busy, if not for them.
I'm also not saying that busyness is a result of carbon contiousness. Just noting that it is a contributory factor. It's certainly a factor in the frequency of my visits to Scotland, various people I know, and visitors I've met while there. And no I'm not claiming that's a representative, typical, or significant sample of visitors. Nor suggesting this accounts for a significant number of the NC500 goons but who knows, maybe it is a factor even for the heaving masses.
I can't see the NC500 effect wearing off. It's become firmly lodged in the public contiousness. Lots of people do the same holiday over and over again. I don't think it's reached viral popularity. More obviously, it's the most beautiful bit of our island, and people want to go there when they realise this. It's pretty crazy it's taken so long for the general populace to notice.
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St Andrew's "World class" bouldering, Really?
Pittenweem's a shitehole of a town much like the rest of the East Neuk, don't go there.
I think that's tongue in cheek. And we just stopped in Pittenween for a short break one Easter. Agree East Neuk is not the most exciting area, unless you like golf. I don't.
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St Andrew's "World class" bouldering, Really?
Pittenweem's a shitehole of a town much like the rest of the East Neuk, don't go there.
I think that's tongue in cheek. And we just stopped in Pittenween for a short break one Easter. Agree East Neuk is not the most exciting area, unless you like golf. I don't.
Aye but having spent time on that coast i can assure anyone the climbing will be ok at best, I grew up in the East Neuk{Cellardyke} so i am aware of its flaws{i was joking...kind of about Pittenweem} It does have some interesting history and the Sea kayaking is good. Isle of May is worth a visit.
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I actually ran the section of the path past Buddo Rock to see how shit it really was. It makes even some parts of the Moray Coast seem solid.
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St Andrew's "World class" bouldering, Really?
Pittenweem's a shitehole of a town much like the rest of the East Neuk, don't go there.
I think that's tongue in cheek. And we just stopped in Pittenween for a short break one Easter. Agree East Neuk is not the most exciting area, unless you like golf. I don't.
Is East Neuk as funny/rude in SA as it is in NL Chris? ;D
Spent way to many days of my life in Methil over the last few years. Glad to have that behind me now.
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Don't know, it means hit, defeat or "nail" in Afrikaans depending on context?
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Still off topic, but it's one close to my heart as a Highlands resident: another victim of recent busyness/popularity/twattishness is the farmer blocking the usual Reiff parking spot with old machinery. It's still possible to park sensibly not too far away but you can't help but feel unwelcome, having parked in the old spot with no issues for the preceding 15 years.
The clearances discussion is an interesting one. If these 'remote' areas had remained peopled would they now have infrastructure that could support such popularity? Who can say. How does it compare to similar places without the clearance history? Norway perhaps? I suspect more recent politics and economics might have bigger impacts.
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Were there clearances throughout Scotland? If not, surely the rural population of those unaffected could give an indication?
Saw unaware of the actions of the farmer, seems a bit nasty.
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Re. Reiff parking, it seems the farmers got fed up with large numbers parking and sometimes blocking the gate, camping when asked not to etc. There's a discussion about it in the comments under this FB photo, including input from one of the farmers.
http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02KFS1A2XrKw2viPKRpJqXcVb6o5Js5s2SNh3Bnqtiww6ZPA7PiohePQVeLKxKG11bl&id=100238796980942&__tn__=%2AW-R
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The clearances discussion is an interesting one. If these 'remote' areas had remained peopled would they now have infrastructure that could support such popularity? Who can say. How does it compare to similar places without the clearance history? Norway perhaps? I suspect more recent politics and economics might have bigger impacts.
This would be interesting, I think it’s hard to make comparisons with anywhere else in GB due to other NP’s and beauty spots (SW for example) either being close to large urban areas, or having been industrialised via mining and fishing. NW highlands really is a uniquely remote spot for our country, and I now feel privileged to have experienced Torridon and Skye before the NC500.
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I was going to say the Southern Uplands could be seen as similar to the highlands, but were not subjected to Clearances, but google says it's not true, just less well known, and not viewed in the same way, and clearly more complex. Fascinating reading.
https://radicalindydg.wordpress.com/2015/11/27/the-scottish-clearances-part-one/
http://greengalloway.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-scottish-clearances-part-seven.html
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The books I've read state quite clearly that the current low populations in the Highlands and Islands absolutely are a direct result of the clearances. Sure, there would have been a steady stream of depopulation like the rest of rural Britain, but that is merely a modifier to the surviving population centres rather than the driver of empty landscapes.
Also interesting to follow the second home debate in the H&I compared to Wales, where the Welsh issue strikes me as less acute and significant but far more prominent politically.
Agree with Jon, a big driver of visitor numbers is carbon footprint reduction. As this continues to grow (and the Scottish climate continues to warm) this will only continue. So we need to plan for the future and visitor numbers being much higher still. The viability of remote working is also driving net positive immigration - this will increase too. It is vital people see these areas as they are - currently underpopulated due to forceful eviction and resettlement - rather than nice quiet areas to bottle in aspic for a drive-by peepshow.
Likewise another big driver is the democratisation of information via the internet. When I first went to Barra it was because I'd buy photo books while peers went to travel agents, who sold them flights. Now everybody gets images unbidden direct to their pockets which illustrate how nice Britain is. One extample is viral instas, another is this thread. Covid gave that process a boost but it was well under way before and will continue beyond.
For the OP, I really like Fidden, Barra and Harris. I haven't bouldered much in Scotland but if you like quiet and freedom to roam it's worth noting that long ferry rides are an enduring gatekeeper.
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Re. Reiff parking, it seems the farmers got fed up with large numbers parking and sometimes blocking the gate, camping when asked not to etc. There's a discussion about it in the comments under this FB photo, including input from one of the farmers.
http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02KFS1A2XrKw2viPKRpJqXcVb6o5Js5s2SNh3Bnqtiww6ZPA7PiohePQVeLKxKG11bl&id=100238796980942&__tn__=%2AW-R
It's a shame some of the climbers' comments there, while pretty reasonable, aren't a little more cap-in-hand. It is true that blocking off that area for parking literally just moves the problem down the road, but realistically it may succeed in putting off quite a few motorhomes and campers.