UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Monolith on June 04, 2007, 01:28:31 pm
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Having some grief with this. I can lock off for a considerable amount of time at 90 degrees and more so in a deeper position. Putting two and two together, it feels as though I should at least be close to initiating a one arm pull from long arm. Alas, I'm not even close. I've got pretty long arms being fairly tall and for time had considered that tall and thin people can't do a one armer until I saw two of my tall hyper-thin comrades do one.
The problem seems to lie in the initial phase of the movement (i.e. deep in the bottom of the lats or wherever it is). What specific positions or movements should I be executing in getting through this trauma-inducing problem? Have been doing locks just off a straight arm on a bar with other hand at the base of a towel on the bar. When will the grief end!?
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Have you tried using your feet, maybe get an egyptian or drop knee in somewhere?
::)
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I don't know what you mwan but if you're doing them from a straight arm hang, then that's what `flicked' means, that you jerk your legs to get yourself over the hard bit at the start using cheating momentum. A lot of other people don't even seem to do them from straight arm and take the tick or waddage.
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I don't know what you mwan but if you're doing them from a straight arm hang, then that's what `flicked' means,
Not necessarily... you can get over this lower part without resorting to tricks such as this.
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Have you used a theraband to take a smidgeon of weight when training them? I find this useful when getting back into it.
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My advice to achieve one armers easily from straight arm is the following;
1. Grow a mullet.
2. Listen to plenty of very good techno.
3. Walk up to a pull up bar, hang straight arm, and then simply start pulling.
Although these steps may be dubious I subjected myself to the following and look what happened;
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/unclesomebody/th_40bfb40c.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/unclesomebody/?action=view¤t=40bfb40c.flv)
;)
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(What's on in the background?)
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look what happened;
I thought by the way that you controlled the negative right to the end that you were going to keep on going. Frankly i'm disapointed. ::)
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Frau Grüberdinkle is lovin' the mix upstairs, the bar's got new fingertape, but the magic isn't working! Fucking mullets!
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look what happened;
I thought by the way that you controlled the negative right to the end that you were going to keep on going. Frankly i'm disapointed. ::)
:-[ Sorry. I couldn't keep going because I've got issues with my digital camera. For some reason I can't get it to record a video clip longer than 10 seconds so all the subsequent one armers would have been wasted because no one could see them, and that's all i care about.
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Anyway with regards to the original topic, Houdini's suggestion sounds like a good 'un however i'd always favour weights and a pulley set up over a theraband, you can actually see how much assistance your getting and hence gauge any progress you make rather than just guessing how far up your holding etc.
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ive always avoided one armers (except casually doing a few on the beach...)
i used to do them from a deadhang and going up frontal, and its very strenuous on the shoulders.
i havent trained them for ages, but i think that some proper gym style musculation will help, as much as using therabands or such things to take some weight off.
and also doing asymmetrical double handed pull ups, shifting your bodyweight completely on one side.
the question is: are they really crucial? is it really useful to do one or two? in terms of power references, yes; in terms of pure climbing usefulness, i thing no.
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the question is: are they really crucial? is it really useful to do one or two? in terms of power references, yes; in terms of pure climbing usefulness, i thing no.
Thats something i've pondered a fair few times (especially when someone pipes up to say dave graham can't do one :shrug: ), for what it's worth I think that one armers are more than just a frame of reference for power (if done in a climbing specific manner), on steep routes and boulder problems the ability to lift your whole bodyweight with one arm is a great advantage as you can obviously pull harder with the assistance of any of the three other potential points of contact. I think a lot of the time people do them as a "look how strong I am" twisting in as much as possible and doing them on the largest of holds known to man, that isn't going to be useful.
Of course all of the above is absoloutely useless on that medium we all love ??? grit....
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i agree with you, paul.
what i was trying to mean is that if youre able to do one armers, youll do much better on routes, even very steep, with one or two foot on. but, between getting strong fingers and doing one armers, i have chosen the first.
that last line isnt very helpful to my theory, given my poor list of hard sends.
whatever.
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I agree fingers are often the weak link...
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I'll try a)a mullet b)a theraband c)harder d)in the company of proper men.
But seriously, thanks for the words.
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I wonder if mullet growth is the key to unlocking left-side 1 armers? :-\
Wednesday Tom... we can make the mullet pact and begin the intensive training!
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I look forward to it bitch. Must remember to nab a theraband too.
I really can't fathom the hideous inconsistencies between finger strength and relative lack of arm strength, it's really quite frustrating. Justice must be done.
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from that statement tom are you implying that you have hideous finger strength? monster!
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Well, he has been trying The Sting of late - so he's either got fingers of steel or no nerve endings.
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:lol:
Funny you should mention that Simon, I was champion Knuckles fighter when I was at school. Objectively speaking though, my fingers are somewhat stronger in comparison to my pathetic sparrow arms (which now seem to be the stumbling block in getting through some problems.)
Shall report my findings from the high octane plan I've drawn up.
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I suppose it comes down to specifics. You don't need to do one armers on routes, you do need to lock off though which is why so many of us can do lock offs, if one armers were a part of climbing then I'm sure more of us could do them. I'd love to be able to do a one-armer but only to show off, however I'm not willing to take the time out of my already intensive training plan to develop this :whistle:
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Was about to add my two penneth worth, and say I find it best if I sit on my arm for half an hour beforehand so it feels like someone else is doing it. I then read the thread title a little more closely.
Good job I did, otherwise I'd have looked like a right wanker.
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if one armers were a part of climbing then I'm sure more of us could do them. I'd love to be able to do a one-armer but only to show off, however I'm not willing to take the time out of my already intensive training plan to develop this :whistle:
I reckon at the top end of bouldering and sport climbing they are, thats why i'd also reckon almost all (if not all, watch dave graham on that amazing little things clip and tell me he's really trying!) top sport climbers and boulderers can do a one armer.
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Give me an example of where you need to hang from one arm, with no other points of contact and no possibility of matching and then having to lock off to gain the next hold. I've yet to come across this. Maybe plenty of topclimbers can do them, but there are also plenty of shit ones who can do them too. I think SF's one armism is significantly more useful, albeit with slightly less training benefit.
Being able to do one of those crucifix moves off of Mision Impossible however, now they are worth training for...
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Don't forget the classic figure of 4. Essential
(if you are a drytooler)
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Don't forget about the unorthodox figure of 4!
(http://ettf.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/yoga.jpg)
Surely anywhere you can use a one armer, you can also use a figure of 4 and save the worry that someone might call you up on doing them 'snatched' (oo-er)
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Well it's bleeding obvious that a one-armer is not a climbing move. Neither is a front-level, a shoulder press, a situp etc. However, does it help climbing to become stronger and more fit?
Doing intra-muscular coordination training and recruitment with the goal of making one paltry one-armer will not help, but stronger lats and biceps sure help. At least on several routes I've tried.
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I've had to do front levers on routes.
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I've had to do front levers on routes.
Well, I certainly hope you held the lever static for more than 2 second. Otherwise I'm forced to give you a point-reduction :lol:
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I think you will find that a one armer is a move on a route. Now i can't do one on a bar but i've done one on the top crack of nectar and if any one can tell me how to do it without i'll make them a paper hat!
I'm not the only one on this either Adam (i'm only 5 foot high) Long also did it the same way, and he can't do one on a bar either. Or so he reckons, but anyone who can throw laps on Brad pit in a yellow files jacket is not to be trusted.
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Give me an example of where you need to hang from one arm, with no other points of contact and no possibility of matching and then having to lock off to gain the next hold. I've yet to come across this. Maybe plenty of topclimbers can do them, but there are also plenty of shit ones who can do them too. I think SF's one armism is significantly more useful, albeit with slightly less training benefit.
Being able to do one of those crucifix moves off of Mision Impossible however, now they are worth training for...
Oh come on this is just your anti training stance shining through. I can't think of one specifically where you have to (I remember uncle finding one in the frankenjura somewhere) but there are plenty of routes with shit foot holds and no possibility of matching, where the ability to one arm will significantly improve your chances of doing the move.
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Completely, wholeheartedly and honestly speaking, I want to do it to show off. Non-climbers find it incredibly impressive, and let's face it, there's plenty of non-climbers around to impress!
The fact that it might give me a wholesome distribution of strength throughout my arm is of little consequence really. ;)
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Completely, wholeheartedly and honestly speaking, I want to do it to show off. Non-climbers find it incredibly impressive, and let's face it, there's plenty of non-climbers around to impress!
Beware the showing off factor remember Andy Brown of Andy Browns wall fame, one finger one armer in the pub after his work mates talked him into it. snapped his tendon. Couple of opps laters, and he's become a fell runner.
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Trust me my friend, I will NEVER EVER show off in the arm department. I'm happy to leave Loose Canon Bradbury and Co. to run that show.
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This is such a simple argument to lay to rest. Specific training to be able to do one arms will not make you a better climber. Getting stronger in general will make you better. Let's just take a look at the climbers in Britain who are operating on atleast a National level (bouldering/sport);
Gaz Parry
Andy Earl
John Gaskins
James Pearson
Richard Simpson
Ryan Pasquill
Tyler Landman
Steve Mclure
Ben Moon
Dave Macleod
(there may be some more operating at 8B/8b+).
Every single one of these people can do a one armer. However, correlation is not causation, every statistician knows this! By this I mean that being able to do a one armer is not why these people are good, it is part of a fundamental level of strength that is required to operate at this level. It is a bi-product of being a strong climber. If you can do a one armer on a campus rung (I expect all of the above can) then you are going to be in a much better position to climb hard things.
However, we all know that climbing is not just about doing repeated one armers. It requires technique, subtle footwork, etc, and all those people listed above ALSO have this. They are all exceptionally skilled climbers. It pisses me off sometimes that people can't see through a climbers strength. The reason that climber is better than you is not because he can do a one armer and you can't, it's because he has a better understanding of momentum, body position, footwork, etc etc.
To get better you need to raise your game in every way. You can't just improve in one sector. If anyone wants to say I am just a strong oaf of a climber then I would happily go climbing on slabs/walls and continue to prove that I am not technically inept. Perhaps people, with their rose tinted glasses, see strength far too readily and not technique. Perhaps they don't know how to look for technique. I see it all the time when I am lucky to climb with people like Nigel, Adam, James, etc. Watch someone like Danny Cattell in the cave. He doesn't just have more strength that you, he has wonderful mastery of movement to go with this strength.
Monolith, doing one armers to show off is perfectly fine and I applaud you for wanting to do it. I know you don't expect to suddenly be climbing loads better the day you do a one armer. But the process of doing it will raise your strength level, and I'm sure along the way you are also increasing your levels in other areas.
So, rant over. I can still do one armers and I can still burn you off on a slab. 8)
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Wise words. I would wad you, but I think it's wrong to be wadded more than once for the same post. Like getting tried twice for the same crime.
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:agree:But in that, you still need to accept that some great climbers can't do them, despite being strong and some fat fitters at Batemans can do them without even realising that they could. I can't do them, never have been able to, but then I've never needed too. I'd like to be able to do them, but only to show-boat.
I do think some people find them easier than others, regardless of how strong or light they are because of their genetics, but I don't want to go down that line.
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Have you ever Had to do a one armer on a slab? I've seen someone do one!
Pob on 3 Blind Mice Awesome stuff!
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:agree:But in that, you still need to accept that some great climbers can't do them, despite being strong and some fat fitters at Batemans
Out of the people currently operating at the top level in each discipline who cannot do a one armer? I do appreciate that some fat biffers and total punters can do them but this misses the point made above that its more than just strength that seperates these people from the best climbers out there.
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You reckon fatty Parry can do a one armer?!?! Only if he's had one arm removed and there's a pork pie tied to the pull-up bar....... ;)
Anyway, what happened to the excuse that ability to do one-armers is related to body size/shape? I've been using that one for years (although I did once manage one solitary one armer in about 2001, and haven't ever felt the need to try again. As I remember, its all about remembering to pull really, really fucking hard.........
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one armes are also an easy way to measure progress.
if you get one without any specific training, just as a spin off result from other routines, youre on the right path.
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Every single one of these people can do a one armer.
Uncle, you state this as gospel fact. Only fact is, you don't actually know if this is true.
The only folk I know who can do true controlled one armers from straight arm are either physical freaks like Ru and Paul B or training fanatics like yourself.
but there are plenty of routes with shit foot holds and no possibility of matching,
Be aware on the rock matching one hand atop another is not 'cheating'. Or on your wrist for that matter. I can't envision a move where this wouldn't be possible.
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I can think of plenty where although your lower hand is not dong much to propel you upwards it would be a hell of a lot less use wrapped around your wrist, dangerous bro's the rockover method for example, Salar (static method), The sissy.
I'd be very surprised if all the people on Uncle's list can't do a one armer, 7 of them definitely can and as no one has ever seen Gaskins (in planet or feeling form) we can only guess as to his capabilities.
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doing one armers on jugs is pointless unless you wanna climb at the cascade in ceuse and lock off every move. To be honest i think one armers are pointless. Every man and his dog should be deadhanging long before they're worrying about doin one armers
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i feel deeply offended, not being considered neither a physical freak nor a training fanatic, and ill provide proof of the above deined qualities as soon as possible. ;D
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Anyway, what happened to the excuse that ability to do one-armers is related to body size/shape? I've been using that one for years
Hear, hear!
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Every single one of these people can do a one armer.
Uncle, you state this as gospel fact. Only fact is, you don't actually know if this is true.
The only folk I know who can do true controlled one armers from straight arm are either physical freaks like Ru and Paul B or training fanatics like yourself.
but there are plenty of routes with shit foot holds and no possibility of matching,
Be aware on the rock matching one hand atop another is not 'cheating'. Or on your wrist for that matter. I can't envision a move where this wouldn't be possible.
:'(
doing one armers on jugs is pointless unless you wanna climb at the cascade in ceuse and lock off every move. To be honest i think one armers are pointless. Every man and his dog should be deadhanging long before they're worrying about doin one armers
From the man who does a one armer on the rockattrocity finishing pocket every time he is in the cave.
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From the man who does a one armer on the rockattrocity finishing pocket every time he is in the cave.
a) thats no jug
b) its bloody pointless, still can't do In Hell, In Life , Halfway House, Crucial Times etc.. etc. etc..
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Keith I'm flattered :-[
Come on, what's all the to-ing and fro-ing about one-armers all about. Its like climbing, whether you can do it well or not, its all about who's having the most fun:
(http://beastskills.com/Jack%20and%20I%20end2.jpg)
And they're loving it!
By the by Adam, I recently did a one arm from full extension. Does that make me a training fanatic? It'd go well with my flawless technique...
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Reading this thread is reminiscent of watching "Clash of the Titans" or "Jason and the Argonauts" etc - any of those films where the mighty gods on mighty Mount Olympus have mighty arguments about the precise extent of their mightiness
... although I suspect the participants in this discussion aren't overweight or wearing togas ::) ;D
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I think you will find I am indeed overweight and wearing a toga, thank you.
I can indeed (normally) do a one armer, but not from a straight locked out position. I've only ever tried doing them from a slight bend. I find that trying them (or locking) on small holds/campus rungs to be better for climbing specific training and on a bar for showing off.
Caveat: I can also do 1-4-7 easily but am still a pretty shit climber. Make of that what you will
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I think you will find I am indeed overweight and wearing a toga, thank you.
You want to look like some sort of freak? Muumuu not good enough for you?
(http://www.toomik.net/helen/blog/images/Homer_muumuu.jpg)
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Every man and his dog should be deadhanging long before they're worrying about doin one armers
now you're talking arnold
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Every man and his dog should be deadhanging long before they're worrying about doin one armers
now you're talking arnold
by deadhanging do you mean auto erotic deviancy i.e.ribboning gone wrong.
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worked for hutchence, well not technically him but everyone else
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as cowboyhat told me last swiss trip, training is all about achieving goals.
Doing a one armer is a good and acheivable goal for everone. all depends how much time and effort you put in.
A full one armer from straight arm is really hard to do.
Nigel and Keith - look at us!
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Yes Jim it is hard although obviously it feels fine when you do it. I found the key to be sorting out the section breaking the lock from a straight arm, which requires a lot of back strength to keep the shoulder in the right place. Benching, overhead presses (military presses I think the're called), and weighted press-ups for three weeks and I had it cracked. I think this is a very important aspect of arm strength which is often neglected in favour of endless sets of 4/5 assissted one arms with too much assistance, i.e. .10kg, which don't do much in terms of strength gains.
Sorry to stop the fun but I thought it might be useful for anyone out there close to a one arm. :shrug:
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I recently did a one arm from full extension. Does that make me a training fanatic?
I found the key to be sorting out the section breaking the lock from a straight arm, which requires a lot of back strength to keep the shoulder in the right place. Benching, overhead presses (military presses I think the're called), and weighted press-ups for three weeks and I had it cracked.
Do you need me to sum that up in a word?
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;D
go on nige.
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I recently did a one arm from full extension. Does that make me a training fanatic?
I found the key to be sorting out the section breaking the lock from a straight arm, which requires a lot of back strength to keep the shoulder in the right place. Benching, overhead presses (military presses I think the're called), and weighted press-ups for three weeks and I had it cracked.
Do you need me to sum that up in a word?
Just because someone trains it does NOT make them a fanatic...
I don't know where yours and AndiT's non training mindset comes from, its obvious from history that its beneficial:
MOFFAT
MOON
SMITH
Now tell me that any of these three couldn't one arm or didn't train? or that the power gained by one arming or training didn't allow them to climb at a higher level? or name someone with better credentials that didn't train?
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there's no excuse for a weak body, big muscles can take more hammer. weak fingers yes, there's a large genetic component to where you start and can go.
my excuse for being weak? i work more than you.
my other excuse, genetically i should go running. i have an extra muscle in my calf that 10% of the population have, and lack a particular forearm muscle that holds the flexor sheath in place . nevermind, i can still do one armers, and front levers.
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I recently did a one arm from full extension. Does that make me a training fanatic?
I found the key to be sorting out the section breaking the lock from a straight arm, which requires a lot of back strength to keep the shoulder in the right place. Benching, overhead presses (military presses I think the're called), and weighted press-ups for three weeks and I had it cracked.
Do you need me to sum that up in a word?
Go on then. Or a mime. Or a top ten chart hit, by you, feat. Chakademus 'n' Pliers.
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I don't know where yours and AndiT's non training mindset comes from, its obvious from history that its beneficial:
MOFFAT
MOON
SMITH
Now tell me that any of these three couldn't one arm or didn't train? or that the power gained by one arming or training didn't allow them to climb at a higher level? or name someone with better credentials that didn't train?
I suppose, after all is said and done, it depends what you're training for. I certainly wouldn't agree that I have a non-training mindset, just a different one to you, which doesn't involve the type of indoor training that you guys do. I still think if I'm not fit I need to go running and get climbing mileage in, and if I'm lacking oomph then I need to boulder and do familiar circuits on local rock; this is still training. The difference being at the end of it all I rate the success of my 'training' in how well my climbing flows, how confident I feel, how well my jams slot in, not whether I'm any closer to a one armer.
Historically there are many climbers who didn't train as such, but of course the power monsters you have listed train very hard and very effectively and I've no doubt were great at doing one armers (I seem to remember Jerry doing 7 before 7 on the big breakfast once), I do doubt however that they trained purely to be able to do them i.e '6 weeks of military back bench rotator cuffs mixed with lateral dorsi syimultion and a pure lentil diet and I was cranking one armers left, right and in the middle'
Like I said before, I'd like to be able to do them, to show off, but nothing else, after all, no amount of one armers wil ever actually get you up a route. Each to their own, I suppose.
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anyone know if dawes could do a one armer? just out of interest..
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Well if he did I daresay it would be flicked allmighty, and therefore would be scorned by those that decree these things.
Can I just point out, as no one else seems to have, that Saltbeef declared himself 'weak' above.
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Mark King from Level 42 can do one just on his thumb.
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Well it is the strongest digit after all.
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i have an extra muscle in my calf that 10% of the population have, and lack a particular forearm muscle that holds the flexor sheath in place .
Freak!!
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Made a pulley system at the weights session yesterday and managed 2 longarms with 12kg on the system. On the left arm, the second rep wan't quite complete. Presumably spend a few weeks on 12kg descending down the spectrum over time to the unassisted point?
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Sounds like a good plan. That's probably the ideal way to progress, its very specific (i.e. its exactly the same exercise, as opposed to say weighted two arm pull-ups), and it sounds like you're keeping the reps low which is best for strength. Work up to doing three reps OK on each arm at 12kg then reduce the weight. Other handy hints:
- Don't overdo it. If you feel tired and can't match your last session then rest. It means that your muscles haven't recovered yet and you will do yourself NO GOOD keep flogging it. Often ignored! But very important.
- At the weak points in the motion (probably at the bottom) feel for where you are straining. A lot of the required strength is in the back and shoulders, and triceps. I felt like my triceps were straining at the bottom, then like I said 3 weeks of pressing exercises and I'd done a proper one arm. Generally, keep your antagonists up to speed.
- Mix it up - what you're doing is ideal but have the odd session of weighted pull-ups and unassisted negatives to keep a bit of spice.
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Nice one, cheers Nigel. It's funny how much joy you derive in the slighest increase in angle of the pull.
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You're all gay
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join us and our long line of tents
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Sounds like Bonjoy's been hacked. But yes, on occasion there's nothing wrong with giving a hearty blowjob to your deserving climbing peer.
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Sounds like Bonjoy's been hacked. But yes, on occasion there's nothing wrong with giving a hearty blowjob to your deserving climbing peer.
Remind me not to venture down to Pex Hill on a dark night
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You won't catch me round those parts all that often these days Dylan. Head towards South Lakes if you're needing any assistance..
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Jim. That's all well and good, but why the tents when there's a bunkhouse costing ten times as much just up the road?
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There will be a invoice for some dried apricots and 7up heading your way if your not carefull SF :greed:
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has anybody got some experience with doing one armed deadhangs (with straight arms)? they sound great for training your fingers with the double load they have to carry compared to the normal deadhangs, but aren't they notorious for causing elbowinjuries or is that only if you do a lot of pull-ups starting out straight(not one-armers off course)? maybe locking off at 90° with some support from the other hand could be a solution but then you're also putting some high stress on your elbow and biceps.
tnx
BD
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A friend of mine recently wrote to Neil Gresham and asked him weather it was benefitial to dead hang with both arms using one finger on each (as it really hurt him!!) Neil wrote back strongly advising against dead hanging like this! Isted he suggested hanging off a single arm but using as many fingers as possible.
He said that within a month of practice it should be possible to hold a one-armed dead hang off a campus board rung.
P.S, I thought id read somewhere that Keenus only used 'climbing' as training for climbing?
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of course deadhanging one-armed puts a lot of load on the arm BD, that's how you get stronger. you don't get stronger by imagining daisies as a lot of books would have you believe.
speaking of which i'm pretty sure you've misquoted or took out of context neil's reply to your mate eddies. if hanging on one-finger is hurting your mate then he's not ready to do it. maybe one finger one hand and two on the other. if you hang on one-finger you're training mono's, if you hang on many you're training many :bounce:
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A friend of mine recently wrote to Neil Gresham and asked him weather it was benefitial to dead hang with both arms using one finger on each (as it really hurt him!!) Neil wrote back strongly advising against dead hanging like this! Isted he suggested hanging off a single arm but using as many fingers as possible.
He said that within a month of practice it should be possible to hold a one-armed dead hang off a campus board rung.
Depends how big the rung is!
Incidently, I can hang one-armed off a one inch rung for 10 - 15 seconds (keeping the arm slightly bent ie. pulling) and I'm pretty weak. I think smaller holds and less time are the way to go.
BTW my one armer training will mostly consist of eating broccoli and being less of a fat bastard! :goodidea:
JBB.