UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => bouldering => new problems => Topic started by: Bradders on October 03, 2022, 05:58:40 pm
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I managed to see off my project at Ilkley this afternoon. I've mentioned this a few times on here so thought I should post up about it.
It's essentially a low left start to Bernie the Bolt, linking the problem Awkward Classic straight into the bulk of BtB. The climbing is superb, very sustained and varied, with a burly 6 move intro on undercuts followed immediately by a shouldery 4 move sequence on gastons and high feet, with the crux being very near the top, albeit you finish with a lovely few easier moves on good holds at a good height. I know it's a link up but it's a great highball line in my opinion, climbing the faint groove beneath the obvious flakes at which BtB and Three More Reps converge. Genuine 3 stars.
I know BtB has been done from a sitter before, at least by Jon Freeman, and although he said he can't remember what he did he reckoned it didn't add too much to BtB, so I believe he'll have gone from the obvious right hand sitter on two big undercuts (I.e. where Classic Calf starts).
Does anyone know if this version has been done before? Although I can find no reference to it anywhere, and have asked around a fair bit, it could easily have been done back in the day by JD in-between bicep curls whilst on his circuit.
If it hasn't, and tbh even if it has really, it needs a name so I'd like to propose "The Golden Shot", I.e. the game show which featured the phrase "Bernie, the Bolt please!".
Grade wise I think it might be 8A but it's hard to know. I had 5 sessions in February and was getting near the top, but didn't have the shoulders for the crux. I then picked up a wrist injury which put me back quite a bit, but once that was fixed I've spent the last 3 months training for it specifically, and having made some nice gains I managed to get it done quickly now (for me.... 2nd go, 2nd session this season).
Fun bit of trivia, assuming the UKC grade of 7C for BtB is correct (which I think it is personally) it was one of the very first in the UK when it was done by Rob Gawthorpe in c. 1985, obviously pre-pads. Pretty impressive given how high the crux is!
I've been dead keen on the Calf this year, it offers some fantastic climbing. Yes you have to put up with tourists staring at you, and I arrived once to find a full primary school year group stood under it shouting at goodness knows what, but these things are perfectly tolerable for such an immense boulder. Deserves more attention if you ask me.
Lastly, why on earth is it known as the back of the Calf? It's clearly the front!
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Nice dude! :bow:
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Fun bit of trivia, assuming the UKC grade of 7C for BtB is correct (which I think it is personally) it was one of the very first in the UK when it was done by Rob Gawthorpe in c. 1985, obviously pre-pads. Pretty impressive given how high the crux is!
And Rob also did Walk on By (7C+) in 1980.
Congrats on the send, of course.
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Lastly, why on earth is it known as the back of the Calf? It's clearly the front!
Named when bouldering was a mere subset of climbing and no-one did it exclusively I imagine. It’s the back when you’re looking at it from the crag.
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Let's see the video then!
Well done again, can't wait to try this thing soon, or perhaps go right up Cindy instead of left!
On the regular BtB sitter, I'm surprised he said it didn't add much. I've not put it all together yet so I'm speculating, but unless I had a duff sequence, the sit moves are around 7A to where they join the juggy flake and I'd expect that to add a grade on, or at least go from low to high in the grade. More importantly it does add quality. As you say, it's a highly underrated boulder!
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Nice one Bradders.
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I think the name predates bouldering;
https://www.visitbradford.com/things-to-do/cow-and-calf-rocks-p1622581
https://megalithix.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/cow-calf-rocks-ilkley-moor/
I think they have been a popular tourist attraction since Victorian Times.
Good effort btw, sounds burly and undergraded.
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I think the name predates bouldering;
He’s talking about why the steep side is referred to as the back, not why it’s called the Calf.
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I think the name predates bouldering;
He’s talking about why the steep side is referred to as the back, not why it’s called the Calf.
Indeed. Although I had no idea there was once a Bull too!
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I think the name predates bouldering;
He’s talking about why the steep side is referred to as the back, not why it’s called the Calf.
Ah Ok. guess it's all relative, if the calf is facing the cow.
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Although I had no idea there was once a Bull too!
Me neither, lost to the quarriers. Although they did give back with the whole quarry.
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Cheers all!
Two things I meant to mention and forgot.
Firstly the rock quality is brilliant. Bullet hard grit. I love this kind of gritstone. No scrittle at all.
Second it's not an eliminate. Although it starts in the same place as the low start to Three More Reps it's just a case of one going slightly left and up, the other going slightly right and up.
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Second it's not an eliminate. Although it starts in the same place ...
I was going to suggest you watch out for the inevitable debate on whether climbing an 8A from the start holds of a 7B+ makes it necessarily eliminate but no need to worry - it's not in Yarncliffe woods
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Nice work, sounds nails.
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Let's see the video then!
+1
Nice one Bradders, although I am annoyed that I might end up having to consider to do that top out again ;D
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Good work, Nick.
Second it's not an eliminate.
One question. Is Awkward Classic an eliminate? Looking at it in Cameron-Duff, would you want to use hold 11 or would that make things harder? I'm not really familiar with this wall.
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Cheers. Yeah good question. For me using hold 11 would add 1 or 2 tricky / powerful moves (basically the crux of Almost Pleasant), so I didn't use it. It's still hard, but more direct and fewer moves, to use a different sequence to avoid it.
You may need to if you have less reach though, not sure, it's a fairly decent span from 13 to 17. This will mean nothing to anyone without a copy of the ACD guide :lol:
I think this is also why for me it feels so independent to Three More Reps; I.e. if you go to 11 then you are immediately into position to go up Three More Reps, so going rightwards from there into BtB might feel a bit more contrived.
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Good effort Nick! I'll be up for some more Calf action after Christmas when I've remembered how to boulder. Have you done all the straight ups now?
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Good effort Nick! I'll be up for some more Calf action after Christmas when I've remembered how to boulder. Have you done all the straight ups now?
I'm keen for everything on the Calf if you need a few more pads throwing down.
While we're on topic, has the direct finish to Cindy Crawford been attempted before? If there are any holds up there, I'd be interested in giving it a try.
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Good effort Nick! I'll be up for some more Calf action after Christmas when I've remembered how to boulder. Have you done all the straight ups now?
I've not done Cindy. Would like to though, will probably go back with Liam soon. And maybe link Awkward Classic into Cindy too which might be exciting!
I just don't think there are any holds through the middle that would allow you to top out at the apex of the face. Certainly none that I can see from the ground anyway. Tbh even if there were, by the time you got that high the ground also drops away, so the fall gets exponentially bigger!!
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This will mean nothing to anyone without a copy of the ACD guide
I reached for mine, then realised...
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OT, but a pal of mine recently found a mint copy of the Steve Rhodes OTE guide on a charity table in Otley Sainsbury's. It was given to "Tim" by his mum and dad in 1994. Stubbs? Palmer? Lowe? Shillito? Or some unknown Tim... Intriguing.
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Clifford? Sat on their shelf for 20 years, and he's not rushing back!
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Let's see the video then!
+1
Nice one Bradders, although I am annoyed that I might end up having to consider to do that top out again ;D
https://vimeo.com/756954386
This will mean nothing to anyone without a copy of the ACD guide
I reached for mine, then realised...
Haha, thank you again, you certainly helped invigorate my Calf psyche this year!
I'm going to do an updated topo for it, as it's all a bit of a mess on UKC and it doesn't seem fair to have the info only available in a very old guide that just a handful of people have access to.
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I'm going to do an updated topo for it, as it's all a bit of a mess on UKC and it doesn't seem fair to have the info only available in a very old guide that just a handful of people have access to.
Keen for this. Given the age of it, it might even be possible to scan the existing one.
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Definitely keen for an updated Topo. I only live 10 minuets away now so as soon as the weather's better keen to check it out.
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Prime example, I noticed this had been put on yesterday with Chris suggesting it was new, when it's basically problem 22 from the ACD guide just maybe from a move lower... :-\
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ilkley_cow_and_calf-547/coppingers_calves-670097
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This and the climbing style is all looking alarmingly "Limestone climbing on grit" :spank:
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This and the climbing style is all looking alarmingly "Limestone climbing on grit" :spank:
For the better ;)
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Prime example, I noticed this had been put on yesterday with Chris suggesting it was new, when it's basically problem 22 from the ACD guide just maybe from a move lower... :-\
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ilkley_cow_and_calf-547/coppingers_calves-670097
I'd be interested in an up to date topo too, as I also projected this back in May thinking it was an FA :wall:
It sounds like it was the same problem https://youtube.com/shorts/Uzo-B4O9sAY?feature=share
I work in Ilkley so often go after work or at lunch if anyone ever wants a spot
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Prime example, I noticed this had been put on yesterday with Chris suggesting it was new, when it's basically problem 22 from the ACD guide just maybe from a move lower... :-\
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ilkley_cow_and_calf-547/coppingers_calves-670097
I'd be interested in an up to date topo too, as I also projected this back in May thinking it was an FA :wall:
It sounds like it was the same problem https://youtube.com/shorts/Uzo-B4O9sAY?feature=share
I work in Ilkley so often go after work or at lunch if anyone ever wants a spot
I knew it rang a bell, I was there one day when you were trying it! Actually looks really good. But yeah, basically an amalgam of problems 22 and 24 detailed in the ACD guide.
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Prime example, I noticed this had been put on yesterday with Chris suggesting it was new, when it's basically problem 22 from the ACD guide just maybe from a move lower... :-\
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ilkley_cow_and_calf-547/coppingers_calves-670097
I'd be interested in an up to date topo too, as I also projected this back in May thinking it was an FA :wall:
It sounds like it was the same problem https://youtube.com/shorts/Uzo-B4O9sAY?feature=share
I work in Ilkley so often go after work or at lunch if anyone ever wants a spot
I knew it rang a bell, I was there one day when you were trying it! Actually looks really good. But yeah, basically an amalgam of problems 22 and 24 detailed in the ACD guide.
Yeah I remember you doing well on your project. Good job getting it done, it looks great!
On that day I did a different problem that started from a crouch with RH on the arete, LH on a sloping crimp side pull which had some nice moves rolling over into the finish of classic calf at around 7B ish.
Great place for training on some nice eliminates!
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I'm going to do an updated topo for it, as it's all a bit of a mess on UKC and it doesn't seem fair to have the info only available in a very old guide that just a handful of people have access to.
Keen for this. Given the age of it, it might even be possible to scan the existing one.
I wonder if UKC would let you upload a picture/scan of the eliminate topo, since it's their site and guide anyway, that could be a good start.
If you did make an updated topo Bradders, I'm just wondering whether there'd actually be any difference compared to the original one? Apart from obviously using Font grades over Vs :)
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Some of the descriptions are pretty vague and confusing I think, so would look to improve on those.
And some of the holds described don't seem to exist anymore!
But yes it's more about trying to make it more widely available.
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Off topic, but are there any videos of the mid-height traverse (F7B+/ f8a)? There is a section of that I have never figured out [the moves to gain the big jug in the middle] and it would be an ideal project for me.
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Never seen a video of it Moose. The only way I've found to do it is to go up to holds 31 and 40, then back down to the juggy flake. Would love to know if there's an alternative, other than doing the crux of Pikachu Challenge and then go up. Either way seems a bit hard for 7B+.
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Not sure if anybody else gets the benefit of dunnyg's logbook comments but here they are:
BETA From LH on jug and RH on almost pleasant jug, left heel up, slap into undercut (RH), go again to good UC, turn heel to toe, stand up, ear intermediate if you want for LH, or just match. Move RH to dishy sidepull, kick RF out as far as possible, get lh to grim flake, RF high out right, RH to crimp up and right, move RF up on to jug and toe in, pop to sidepull 'jug'. Crimp this hard, left hand up to the crimp rh was just on, drop rf down to little foot hold below jug, right of sidepull jug, drop rh into jug. Match jug, rh port hole, side pull, (do stuff with feet) lh porthole side undercut, rh out to crimp short of the arete, left foot into one of the classic calf pockets, pop for jug arete, step lf through onto awks crimp, rf arete smear, match into jug, from here, it is steady, but you are pumped off your tree. Not sure what the finish should be to rock out onto slab, might actually go slightly up rather than down the groove? Could finish up gnome.
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Better than a video that.
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I don't actually believe it's your beta since the text actually appears to make sense, you illiterate Faxian oaf.
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Thanks for that - I've never succeeded in finding or using those high holds (ACD 31 & 40) - my previous attempts have always revolved around trying to use that rounded pinch that's at the same height as the jug. I'll have to come with a step-ladder for a good look.
Personally, I've always found the climbing in Ilkley to be hideous - painful holds and polished smears for feet. I've lived there for 10 years but hardly ever climbed there - reserved for incidences of car breakdown and pandemics (if possible, I prefer 3 hours of driving to a grotty limestone venue). But if you need extra pads and (cursory) spotting let me know - I would love to see it through less jaundiced eyes.
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Prime example, I noticed this had been put on yesterday with Chris suggesting it was new, when it's basically problem 22 from the ACD guide just maybe from a move lower... :-\
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ilkley_cow_and_calf-547/coppingers_calves-670097
Somehow they become more inspiring when named. TravisDean's video shows it's actually a quality problem, so I don't mind if this and any other good ones get named retrospectively. Of course, FA details should be respected.
I'd be interested in an up to date topo too, as I also projected this back in May thinking it was an FA :wall:
It sounds like it was the same problem https://youtube.com/shorts/Uzo-B4O9sAY?feature=share
I work in Ilkley so often go after work or at lunch if anyone ever wants a spot
I briefly looked at this the other day and thought it could finish up Cindy Crawford or Bernie the Bolt. Where you go right for the last move to finish on the arete, it would go slightly left and up to the juggy flakey thing, then you're into the highball problems. It doesn't appear to eliminate and would add quality to the original lines. Aiming to give it a try on Sunday!
Bradders mentioned that Bernie had already been done from a right hand sit at 7C+. If it was from the same starting point then i'd expect that grade is very conservative!
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Prime example, I noticed this had been put on yesterday with Chris suggesting it was new, when it's basically problem 22 from the ACD guide just maybe from a move lower... :-\
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ilkley_cow_and_calf-547/coppingers_calves-670097
Somehow they become more inspiring when named. TravisDean's video shows it's actually a quality problem, so I don't mind if this and any other good ones get named retrospectively. Of course, FA details should be respected.
I do agree with that, there's something much more interesting about it when it's not just "Problem X".
I'd be interested in an up to date topo too, as I also projected this back in May thinking it was an FA :wall:
It sounds like it was the same problem https://youtube.com/shorts/Uzo-B4O9sAY?feature=share
I work in Ilkley so often go after work or at lunch if anyone ever wants a spot
I briefly looked at this the other day and thought it could finish up Cindy Crawford or Bernie the Bolt. Where you go right for the last move to finish on the arete, it would go slightly left and up to the juggy flakey thing, then you're into the highball problems. It doesn't appear to eliminate and would add quality to the original lines. Aiming to give it a try on Sunday!
Bradders mentioned that Bernie had already been done from a right hand sit at 7C+. If it was from the same starting point then i'd expect that grade is very conservative!
I'm 99% sure Jon will have done the easiest non-eliminate from the two big undercuts as per Problem 16.
That's exactly what Problem 24 does anyway, and then yeah you're in the starting position for Bernie and Cindy. The Calf is basically Yorkshire's Bowderstone with lots of potential for hard eliminate/traverse style links into the highball finishes.
I'll be there this afternoon anyway if people are keen?
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Think I'm gonna check out another crag today but maybe keen for Ilkley tomorrow? Would be nice to get lots of pads under Cindy. I can bring 4
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Ah I can't tomorrow but I think that's when Liam's going. I have 7 in the car currently if that's tempting for today :lol:
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I'm keen for today bit Charlotte wants to go elsewhere as we went on wednesday already!
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Very impressive second ascent (I assume) of The Golden Shot by George Newham this afternoon. He's really rather good at rock climbing.
I managed to do The Calf Traverse but couldn't figure out any way for the middle bit other than that described by dunny, I.e. go up then drop back down to the juggy flake. Never seen 7B+ like this in my opinion, 7C all day long. Maybe it's easier if you have some sort of sport fitness. Key for me was not bothering to rest on the jugs and just blasting on to the end.
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Did it today! Really good problem that adds quality to BtB, was going to try this start into Cindy but after doing the top out from the stand I felt too sick at the thought of doing the top again! :sick:
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Awesome, glad it's getting good reviews.
I'm wondering if I was a bit ambitious with the grade. I initially thought it was 7B into 7C with no rest, which using the grade calculation would put it at (8+9+4)/2=10.5 or V10 / V11 and right on the grade boundary. And then rounded up due to the sustained nature and crux at the top.
But maybe it's more like 7A+ into 7B+ so actually 7C+?
I dunno. I certainly had an experience on it akin to other 8As I've done but maybe that's because it's not my best style especially at the top. I'm definitely worrying about it too much anyway, the quality is the most important thing.
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Felt similar to other 7C highballs I've done like Cornelius. Grade break down for me was 7A/+ into 7B.
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Blimey, that hurts a bit!
Guess we'll see what others think. It was harder for me than Frank or Sweet Dreams Sit anyway, took me literally 5x more sessions than both of those! And it adds quite a bit to BtB which itself is 7B+/7C depending on who you ask...so... :-\
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#thoughts&prayers4bradderz
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Felt similar to other 7C highballs I've done like Cornelius. Grade break down for me was 7A/+ into 7B.
Who let this person into wharfedale?
Blimey, that hurts a bit!
Guess we'll see what others think. It was harder for me than Frank or Sweet Dreams Sit anyway, took me literally 5x more sessions than both of those! And it adds quite a bit to BtB which itself is 7B+/7C depending on who you ask...so... :-\
If anyone has any interest in links at Ilkley I did sweet dreams to the break after the crux, then went left into the top of crimson tear. makes for a more sustained bit climbing, maybe still not 8a though
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It was harder for me than Frank or Sweet Dreams Sit anyway, took me literally 5x more sessions than both of those! And it adds quite a bit to BtB which itself is 7B+/7C depending on who you ask...so... :-\
I hope you're not taking 8A for Frank :ohmy:
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I hope you're not taking 8A for Frank :ohmy:
It was harder for me than Frank
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Who let this person into wharfedale?
:lol:
George's ukc note suggests he lanked the bottom bit and I think Haydn is fairly tall as well? Might explain the disparity.
Off topic but why is Frank so overgraded by common consensus (haven't done it so hearsay)? Did people find a new sequence or something?
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If anyone has any interest in links at Ilkley I did sweet dreams to the break after the crux, then went left into the top of crimson tear. makes for a more sustained bit climbing, maybe still not 8a though
Did you have a look at trying to join Crimson Tear as soon as possible from Sweet Dreams? I remember thinking it looked like it would be a hard bit of climbing, but unfortunately very eliminate.
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Off topic but why is Frank so overgraded by common consensus (haven't done it so hearsay)? Did people find a new sequence or something?
I think initially people didn't put their heel on the big right hand ramp, they do now so it is about 7c ish
Did you have a look at trying to join Crimson Tear as soon as possible from Sweet Dreams? I remember thinking it looked like it would be a hard bit of climbing, but unfortunately very eliminate.
I think it could be climbed in a non eliminate way but would be full on grim, very hard and involve a dyno
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George's ukc note suggests he lanked the bottom bit and I think Haydn is fairly tall as well? Might explain the disparity.
Pity poor Bradders, notable short-arse that he is!
/s
I think it could be climbed in a non eliminate way but would be full on grim, very hard and involve a dyno
Dynoing off the ground to the Crimson Tear pocket is probably my worst rock climbing experience. Fuck doing it off anything else! The top move of that problem is nice but surely can't add any difficulty to Sweet Dreams Sit, unless traversing over to it is difficult?
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Off topic but why is Frank so overgraded by common consensus (haven't done it so hearsay)? Did people find a new sequence or something?
It's very span dependent. If you have enough reach you can pull on and go straight to the slot with your right hand, whereas if you can't reach you have to do what looks like a pretty nails couple of moves to shift your left hand along the undercut rail so you can then reach the slot. Not really one of those you can assign a single grade to.
Still a hard couple of moves if you can make the reach but not 8A.
George's ukc note suggests he lanked the bottom bit and I think Haydn is fairly tall as well? Might explain the disparity.
Pity poor Bradders, notable short-arse that he is!
/s
Haha, I'm just long limbed. I've certainly nothing on George, even Liam couldn't make the reach skipping the undercut moves and he has a good few inches in height on me!
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Who let this person into wharfedale?
:lol:
George's ukc note suggests he lanked the bottom bit and I think Haydn is fairly tall as well? Might explain the disparity.
Haydn used the same beta as Nick I believe, no lanking required
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Dynoing off the ground to the Crimson Tear pocket is probably my worst rock climbing experience. Fuck doing it off anything else! The top move of that problem is nice but surely can't add any difficulty to Sweet Dreams Sit, unless traversing over to it is difficult?
Um it is a bit pumpy, makes it a bit trickier I think. I don't think it adds loads but maybe 7a+ or so after sweet dreams (7c ha ha?)
Feel free to go and do it and give some feedback Will, I did it early summer so it isn't particularly hard
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Dynoing off the ground to the Crimson Tear pocket is probably my worst rock climbing experience. Fuck doing it off anything else! The top move of that problem is nice but surely can't add any difficulty to Sweet Dreams Sit, unless traversing over to it is difficult?
Um it is a bit pumpy, makes it a bit trickier I think. I don't think it adds loads but maybe 7a+ or so after sweet dreams (7c ha ha?)
Feel free to go and do it and give some feedback Will, I did it early summer so it isn't particularly hard
That would require me to do Sweet Dreams Sit, which I have not succeeded in pulling off the ground on :lol:
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In the subject of Ilkley things. Where the hell does the Pikachu challenge go. I did the left to right trav yesterday but ended up going high via the same sequence as on the golden shot and then reversing BtB
Traversing lower looks insanely hard
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In the subject of Ilkley things. Where the hell does the Pikachu challenge go. I did the left to right trav yesterday but ended up going high via the same sequence as on the golden shot and then reversing BtB
Traversing lower looks insanely hard
Pikachu Challenge is at 15:45 here:
https://vimeo.com/457488835
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It's on the Cameron duff, and Crux for me is pretty soon after the jugs, moving into and off a shit left hand pinch. Doesn't look miles easier after though to be fair.
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Yeah that pinch is absolutely heinous. Gaz Parry flashing it is so impressive knowing the moves. Although the way he takes the hold makes me wonder whether it might have broken, it just looks so much better than it is now!
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Does GP do it right in the vid? I remember there being some grumbling at the time of the vid release that he goes to high in the last section or something.
This is the beat.
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I thought the super low version was Dave Buchanan's Greasy Leopard. Can't see what the difference would be between the two of Pikachu went any lower!
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Good effort on your addition Bradders. Looks very cool in the video there. Quality moves. I've not done anything on that face yet.
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Cheers! Well worth a visit.