UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: rlovatt on July 11, 2007, 08:16:52 am
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I can ladder no prblem on the smallest rungs on a campus board, but I can't do any large moves such as 1-4-7 even on the larger rungs, what would I need to improve this?
thanks
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Keep doing larger moves - seriously. Not much help, but it really is that simple. start by doing 1-3-5-7-9 then 1-4-6-9 which is the stepping stone to the getting the strength/learning the movement required for 1-4-7. Worked for me anyway.
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I thought this was a thread about emulating Albert Camus. Shame ::)
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larger moves on big rungs or small rungs?
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if you can (as you say) do it on the smaller ones then do it on them. It doesnt matter, the point is to build up to 1-4-7 incrementally. If you can comfortably do 1-2-3 then try 1-3-4 or even 1-2-4. When you can do that try 1-3-5.
Alternatively, sack 1-4-7, its so last decade. 1-5-9 is where its at these days. Dont bother with any intermediary steps, just get straight on with that. On monos.
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Get a Bachar ladder.
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I thought this was a thread about emulating Albert Camus.
That would be absurd. Almost a paradox in fact.
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The legendary Aintree venue? ;)
(http://www.johndavies.org/pic-070105-aintree-4.jpg)
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I was attempting to be slightly more cerebral and make a link to Tom's post about Camus.
However, finding a photo of the Paradox is a good find Rich and always worth posting. Or did you take that photo yourself to remind you of good times?
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There's only one Paradox and that's in Caernarfon, mate!
A Bachar ladder is good advice.
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Its obviously your puny arms that you need to work on
Can you do 15 pull ups
thought not
get involved
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
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well yes i can but 15 pull ups, which is the range of endurance.
It might be my punny arms that are the problem but having the ability to 15 pulls up is not going to help
maybe 3 heavily weighted pull ups
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maybe dylan was suggesting you might need a basic level of strength before this even matters...
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There's only one Paradox and that's in Caernarfon, mate!
Isn't there also only one in Brighton too?
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maybe dylan was suggesting you might need a basic level of strength before this even matters...
Bingo
I infered that you had weak arms (or back) as you can't do 1-4-7.
As it happens it sounds like you locking strength is what is letting you down. How long can you lock off at:
your chin (full lock)
90 Degrees
120 Degrees
?
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i can lock off indefinetly full lock.. and very briefly at the other 2 angles.
so being able to lock of is defiently needed to campus large moves? how would you go about improving on this?
on the smallest rungs and the large rung i can pull trough to rung 4 or 5 and latch it, but pulling through i can only reach say the next rung or two up.
thanks for your help
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i can lock off indefinetly full lock..
Arnold!
Surely if you can do this then campussing is irrelevant. Pull up - lock off - reach.... Is this one of Huffy's other accounts?
I do think that a FAQ thread would be good, linked to all simpson, gresham, morstad articles - look for your answer here first kind of thing. Some of the training posts on here of late have been very rocktalk-esque.
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i'm talking on a bar though, but not on campus rungs
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i can lock off indefinetly full lock.. and very briefly at the other 2 angles.
You can lock off indefinitely at full lock on one arm? That's awesome.
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HERO
Do you look like this by any chance:
(http://www.girondatalks.com/portals/86/arnold-schwarzenegger-vince-gironda.jpg)
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full locks performances could be disappointing, because in the full locked position, the body also finds mechanical locks that help keeping the position, just like the thumb catch on the fingers in a full crimped position.
i think the 90° locks are much more important for building a good strength.
in campusing coordination must go along with brute power. to get through you have to get a high rung, pull it down while you push the lower one, and go up. you may try to get to one rung, and, leaving the lower hand in place, pull up as a kind of asymmetrical pull up. this i think will help.
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well not indefinetly but well over a minute on a bar, but like i say i can't lock off at nay of the other angles
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great thnanks for the advice
how would you train 90 degree lock offs?
weighted pull ups or one arm slow lower offs?
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Assisted 90 degree lock off are probably favourite, ie using a pulley with weights hanging from the bar or a theraband attached to the bar in your free hand.
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great i'll give em a bash!
thanks for the advice
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Hello rlovatt
When you say you can lock-off indefinitely do you mean an underhand grip or overhand grip ?.
The former is much easier and less specific for climbing. The latter is something that I can do for a nano-second on a bar - but Im working on it.
Best, Simon
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both
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If you can lock off indefinitely at full lock I imagine you have tiny biceps. If you have huge sculpted guns the angle at which you can lock off is changed (because of the man boulder in your way), thus decreasing efficiency. I myself have perfectly formed cannons... Law and Order. 8)
What?.....
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If you are able to, put a couple of 'half rungs' on your board. one and a half and six and a half means you can do incremental moves. the jump from 1-4-6 to 1-4-7 is huge, but 1.5-4-7 and 1-4-6.5 makes life easier. You could also try a small weight belt (2kg) on the moves you can comfortably do.
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I think any aspiring campusser should take a look at this by Nige:
On the subject of campus technique, here is my take. Campussing is a party piece trick that is of little direct use to climbing. Case in point - Irish was lapping 1-5-8 at a time when his hardest problem on the 50 board was one 7c (and probably Schoolboy, so 7b+. Its hardly Basic Ben is it?). Me and Doyle were climbing at the same level, but our best was 1-4-5! (Then Si went into the stratosphere, but that's another story. About eggs). Obviously the climbing technique element is low, but also, it doesn’t necessarily equate to climbing strength as you might expect. Cos the holds are so big! (yes even the little rungs – c.f. holds on Uncle Crimpy Guts). However it is fucking good fun, so here are my tips for the top…..
There are two equally important elements to campussing - strength and technique. To illustrate, Danny Cattell can do a one-arm on an edge, and did 1-5-8 by doing just that (100% strength, 0% technique). Conversely, Ben Pritchard pissed 1-4-7 and nearly did 1-5-8 on the same day he failed in a protracted siege on Hard Banisters due to his immaculate campussing technique. To improve at it then both should be worked.
Strength: This is fairly obvious. Keep working towards the elusive one-arm on an edge (OK, not you Keith). If you can do this you’re sound. Because then you just one-arm the rung of your choice. Easy. If you can’t do this (everyone except Keith) then it is useful to add a workout for the triceps, pecs, and lats. These are all crucial to the “pushing” involved in good campus technique. Ben, with the amount of rings you do, you shouldn’t be lacking here!
N.B. For 1-5-anything hopefuls make sure you are working on the extremities of the one-arm, i.e. pulling from full (or very close to full) extension, to your chin above the bar. Don’t just copy Simpson doing his 30 degree R.O.M. “one-arms” on Doyle’s video. Its impressive but it won’t help! If (hypothetically) you were forced to choose you should ditch this bit in favour of extremity work anyway, as this middle portion is where you have the most mechanical advantage, so its easier.
N.B. No.2. For arm strength I recommend staying around 1-2 reps. Certainly no more than 3. The amount of people I see doing 5 reps with about 20kg counterweight on a pulley makes me weep. This is no more than a very offset two arm pull/up, usually incorporating an element of mantelling the assisting arm in the last few reps! You’re far better off doing one solitary slow controlled negative through the full range of motion than this nonsense.
Technique: This is for you Dobster! I won’t go into the slap from 1-4 or 1-5, that’s obvious. It’s the next part that’s tricky. You need to co-ordinate a pulling from your leading arm with a pushing from your trailing arm. The best way to practice this is to do it slowly, i.e. get 1-4/5 and pull/push upwards until your lead arm is locked to your shoulder. You should be using your pushing arm a lot in this motion. Watch Jerry bachar laddering on The Real Thing for a visual. Now, this is most useful from a push/pull at the same time co-ordination point of view, but things are slightly different when you’re actually campussing dynamically…..
……The reason for this is because of the twist. When practicing the movement static your body tends to stay open and close to the board, and your leading arm levers upwards parallel to the board (as if you were doing a straight lat pull down). You shouldn’t be campussing like this. Many do and do very well but they are all overpowering it (like young Mr Cattell). To get the highest up the board, and lets face it that’s what its all about, you should be twisting.
The difference here is that you need to leave space between yourself and the board to allow your torso on the trailing arm side to twist inwards. To visualise this, lock an imaginary rung level with your left arm pit, sit with square shoulders, and extend your right arm above your head. This is your reach if you stay open. In fact its generally worse than this since many people begin slapping up to 7/8/9 when the shoulder of their slapping arm is still lower than that of the leading arm! Now, in the same position, twist you torso from right to left and your right shoulder will rise upwards, thus gaining you a good few inches reach. This is the position you should be aiming to release from.
To allow space for your torso to twist inwards, you need to pull up a different way. Put simply, you need to lever your lead arm upwards perpendicular to the board rather than parallel. To illustrate, if you looked side-on at this technique your body would describe a curve moving out from the board then back in, rather than staying flat to the board throughout the motion.
The reason I think that most people don’t do this (and I don’t think you do Dobs) is that most can reach 1-4-7 easily enough with bad technique (i.e. shoulders level or worse), and have practiced by doing 1-3-6 which is nigh on impossible to do with a twist!
Other tips: Don’t pause or settle or re-adjust halfway. Do everything as one motion.
If you hit a plateau (i.e. 1-4-6 and 1-3-6 easy, aim of 1-4-7) which goes on for a while, stop campussing and do two weeks of basic strength work. Done properly this should see you right.
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I read this last week, then was lucky enough be able to discuss it first hand with my new training guru Nige at the Tor on Saturday.
Last night I put the campus beta to the test. Form book torn up, goalposts moved.
I always suspected I had the strength, but no technique to speak of. Specifically we are only talking about 147 here. I have done it once or twice leading left arm but leading right arm I could barely do 146. So yesterday evening I did 147 five or six times leading both arms. The first time I tried on my left, (stronger side), I got so much height I shot past seven and almost didn't catch it. As for leading right arm, I hit it several times WITH EASE. For me this is unprecedented.
I think the main difference was concentrating on making sure I had pushed down far enough, then twisting, for my slapping arm shoulder to be higher than the leading arm shoulder. Anyway it worked.
Read what Nige said.
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Nice one Char! :great: Now you've figured it out you can lap 147 at will and attract any lady of your choosing. It works in the school anyway, Dobbin was all over me last week. He's got strong fingers.
Its good to see that the technqiue element can be conveyed in an article. I can't understand why it hasn't been done before, I reckon its the area where the majority of people could make the most gains for the least effort. After all we have Gresham teaching us how to flag every issue of Climber.
Any other requests for training articles? Do you want to know the secret of the anal lock?
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This is all interesting. Granted that this improvement in campus technique allows you to campus "better" (if that is your goal in itself), but does this improvement in technique give you benefits for training? If char has improved that much in 1 session (good effort BTW!!) then its clearly not cos he's got miraculously stronger overnight. What i'm saying is does improving training technique allow you to get stronger, or just nudge the goalposts slightly? Does better campus technique allow you to get stronger as a result of your campussing rather than putting the same ammount of effort into campusing with wack tech?
Just to be clear, i'm not trying to be down on you guys, i'm trying to light a fire under you. get you to do some flip-in flip-out shit. :thumbsup:
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On the technique point, I try and campus with less technique, rather than more. I'm campussing to get stronger, not for the day I find a 15 degree overhanging crag with first joint edges every 90cm and a local ethic against using your feet.
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Agreed Ru. To improve now I will definitely have to get stronger, then hopefully I can go back to my old no technique method and still crush it anyway.
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Dave, the point is, as I said in my post on Dob's blog, to get as high up the board as possible. So yes, the goal is to campus better. I'm sure a lot of people will question this but hey if you're gonna campus you might as well do it well right? (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance anyone. Adam?). The difference in training effect between good and wack technique will be negligible, although with good technique you'll work your pushing muscles more.
I don't think you should be thinking of campussing as training anyway. As I said on Dob's blog, its a party trick. I honestly don't think you can get (much) stronger by simply campussing. Hence why I recommend that if you're at a plateau you should do 2 weeks "basic" training (one arms, deadhangs, presses, etc.) to improve. However I do think it provides a fun way to quantify your strength gains, and maybe throw some extra contact strength into the bargain. Ru, I reckon there are more effective ways to get stronger than campussing; by campussing with less technique I think you are just trying to quantify your gains (i.e. done 159, then 159 static, then 159 without pushing etc.) which you have made through other training methods.
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As I said on Dob's blog, its a party trick.
Personally I think the magic thumb trick is better.
(http://mclc.osu.edu/rc/pubs/angel/images/magic2.jpg)
If i had a campus board at my disposal (and some day god help me I will do) i'd be hoping for some kind of power and/or contact strength gains. For contact strangth are we best talking about plyometrics etc rather than laddering then? Talk me some wisdom.
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Man this shit's gone and gotten real complicated.
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For contact strength I would recommend foot off bouldering on small holds over campussing. The reason is that campussing relies more on locking strength than contact strength, and the holds are too big anyway. If you wanted to train it on a campus board I would recommend jumping (from standing) and catching a campus rung with one (bent) arm, or two arms but with weight or on two fingers or something. This will provide more isolation.
This is not to say that campussing won't increase your contact strength - it will, just not as well as the above. Which is what you asked...
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The reason is that campussing relies more on locking strength than contact strength,
You've obviously not seen my appauling lockoff strength. bearing in mind i can barely lock off on jugs!
other than that, cheers for the beyda.
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I think the problem with campus boards is that people use them like a bouldering wall, with the intention of doing harder/bigger campus moves rather than using them as a training tool. I think, with some limitations, that they are an excellent tool for gaining endurance and strength, but I rarely use a campus board to campus in the traditional 1-5-9 sense anymore. Recently I've been trying foot-on stuff, 100+ moves.
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I agree, the best function of a campus board is probably for power endurance work.
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Can I just ask Nige, when did you turn into the British Marius Morstad?
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Actually, I'm the Norwegian Neil Gresham.
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You should run courses where you take the planetfear generation out to a fjord and teach them how to suck eggs.
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And then they are thrown into a fjord with their boots tied around their necks
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so Nige footless problems for contact strength sounds good andy mroe beta on this ? how many problems how many moves for each problem? i also propose that we rename you nigarious.
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I also propose spelling lessons for myself :agree:
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very happy about tonite session.
after long long time of inactivity i really enjoyed jumping from rung to rung.
i did five sets of this:
- 2 max pull ups on one rung (with g/f pulling me down as the overweight)
- then 147 left hand
- 2 more max pull ups
- then 147 right hand
rest seven minutes.
before, i managed again 158, and i did the math: with the closer rungs we use here (20cm) it would be like doing 1 4,5 7,5 i think with a british board.
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nice! You definitely need to come over and get on the infamous school campus board before it get's shut down. I think your 1-5-8 is like a 1-4.5-7.25! ha ha. I have sent you a PM.
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Actually, I'm the Norwegian Neil Gresham.
Wunderbar! How are Flex and Hold?
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sometimes things are very strange...
look what ive found in the recesses of moonclimbign.com on sale:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1021/1367406289_2796be26c6.jpg?v=0)
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Nibz, understanding one half of one percent of English humour would certainly crush you to atoms. Give it up, pal.
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Which rung size (edge) is the norm for benchmark campussing?
Also... do you consider full crimp to be immoral?
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if you plan on getting ridiculous full crimp contact strength then full crimp. does it matter what anyone else thinks if it's working. talking crazy training techniques here not steroid induced mutanicity. the potential for injury is much greater but then again... there are lots of ways to train. unfortunately i'm not good at any :(
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if you plan on getting ridiculous full crimp contact strength then full crimp.
Nah it hurts just thinking about it...
Of course it matters what other people think, what possible other motivation could there be?
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It doesn't its fine. I can't see how the injury potential is any worse than half crimp?
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remember that comes from a man who has no body mass index
Of course it matters what other people think, what possible other motivation could there be?
to see your enemies flee before you, and hear the lamentation of the women
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Never hurt myself full-crimping, only open-handed. Et je sui un weakling.
Anyone out there specifically trained their pinkie and ring, with a view to more savage full-crimping, in time?
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Pinky in sling is pretty good. It would make sense to do more of this for better full hand strength. Try the ring and pinky in 2 finger pockets. Nails!
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Try the ring and pinky in 2 finger pockets. Nails!
I wouldn't! thats why Dense is nursing a finger injury
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Dense weighs a ton...
But seriously, heard some shizz from a man at the wall about Garth Oz training his pink/ring for ages. Made him the beast he is today. Bull?
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ned is the reason for all that ails me at the moment. i just wanted to be like him, but ginger dye costs more than normal and the assistant said i had nowhere to put it anyway. :furious:
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Its good to see that the technqiue element can be conveyed in an article. I can't understand why it hasn't been done before, I reckon its the area where the majority of people could make the most gains for the least effort. After all we have Gresham teaching us how to flag every issue of Climber.
😂😂 14 years on and Gresh is still doing the same (albeit via Instagram)
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How useful is campusing?
I.e. should I start doing it
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Depends on how much you value your elbows in my experience.
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Can't stand the pointy twats