UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => get involved: access, environment, BMC => Topic started by: teestub on March 11, 2021, 07:08:39 pm
-
What has broken on Voyager?
-
What has broken on Voyager?
The pinch on the lip for the left hand that most people roll over to from the flat crimp. There used to be crystals for every finger that you could hook your skin on to, the middle two crystals have now gone, so the hold is still there, it's just quite a lot worse.
-
Cheers, crazy how much difference such a small change can make on the grit.
-
To my knowledge nobody has done the crux move since, and I would speculate that the easiest way now will be by a different sequence, closer to what Ben did on the first ascent. I think there is a reasonable chance that it is now 8C from a sit...
Do you know if Ben used his harder beta when he did the sit, or just on the stand and then revised the beta for the sit? I.e. was his sit beta potentially (BGfBB) 8C.
-
https://vimeo.com/34832130
-
:popcorn:
8C for Ben then
-
Are we talking about the hand shuffle/clock move he does to get his left on the flat crimp (0:30-0:34)? If so, I think he did the FA of Voyager by the normal sequence but used the hand shuffle on the FA of Voyager Sit.
-
I don't think the original sequence is much harder - in fact it is easier for me doing it that way... that was before the hold broke though. I've had a good look at all the holds since break (off a rope) and they were all getting pretty hammered, the little crimpy flake (hold you jump to on stand start) was flexing a touch, the broken hold has lost the 2 best bits so is almost 50% worse, the hold round right on the face was really hammered... It's had a touch of reinforcement since then so hopefully it'll be stable from now on.
-
Just a thought; am I right that much of the damage is from the super wet Autumn / early Winter 2019? As opposed to gradual deterioration over a long time through simple overuse?
Worth emphasising if the former, the dangers of climbing on fragile grit that has only just dried out after a prolonged wet spell.
-
Just a thought; am I right that much of the damage is from the super wet Autumn / early Winter 2019? As opposed to gradual deterioration over a long time through simple overuse?
Worth emphasising if the former, the dangers of climbing on fragile grit that has only just dried out after a prolonged wet spell.
I wonder how much if any of the damage is from people climbing Sphinx. Standing on crystally handholds is way worse then pulling on them for erosion. Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
-
Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
I don't know what the right answer is but it'd be a shame if people couldn't climb the sphinx any more. It's hardly a shit problem.
-
Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
:o :popcorn:
-
Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
:o :popcorn:
Can people also stop climbing Something Stupid pls?
-
Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
:o :popcorn:
And Demon Wall...
-
Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
Fuck. That.
-
I’ve never seen anyone on The Sphinx. It’s not even got one log from 2020 on UKC. Probably seen half a dozen folk on Voyager and I’ve seen it caked in chalk when it’s been damp. I think it’s a stretch to suggest it’s been broken by boot rubber.
-
Just a thought; am I right that much of the damage is from the super wet Autumn / early Winter 2019? As opposed to gradual deterioration over a long time through simple overuse?
Worth emphasising if the former, the dangers of climbing on fragile grit that has only just dried out after a prolonged wet spell.
I wonder how much if any of the damage is from people climbing Sphinx. Standing on crystally handholds is way worse then pulling on them for erosion. Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
I know for a fact that the hand hold broke from someone (I'm not naming any names as I think that's a bit unfair) standing on it doing the sphynx but its definitely not their fault and I'm in agreement with Duma regarding stopping people from doing another climb just because you stand on the hand holds of another.
-
Did you break it Haydn!? :chair:
-
Did you break it Haydn!? :chair:
No, but if it was me I would say as its not a crime to break holds (unless through carelessness like climbing in the damp) its just the nature of gritstone crystals that it will eventually break.
-
I’ve never seen anyone on The Sphinx. It’s not even got one log from 2020 on UKC. Probably seen half a dozen folk on Voyager and I’ve seen it caked in chalk when it’s been damp. I think it’s a stretch to suggest it’s been broken by boot rubber.
Sounds like people need to stop climbing Voyager.
-
I’ve never seen anyone on The Sphinx.
Me neither and it's one of the routes I always look to see if anyone's climbing whenever I'm at the crag with a camera. From that completely neutral perspective I reckon it needs more ascents.
-
I’ve never seen anyone on The Sphinx. It’s not even got one log from 2020 on UKC. Probably seen half a dozen folk on Voyager and I’ve seen it caked in chalk when it’s been damp. I think it’s a stretch to suggest it’s been broken by boot rubber.
Sounds like people need to stop climbing Voyager.
I'm happy to not climb Voyager for the good of everyone. You're welcome.
-
Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
Fuck. That.
I assumed Bonjoy had tongue quite firmly wedged in cheek when writing the above? But if not I’d agree Duma.
-
So people should, or perhaps shouldn't, be avoiding something they've always avoided, to avoid damaging holds on something else, which is both not an issue because people have always avoided it, but also an issue because that's actually how the holds were damaged.
Okay, got it :yes:
-
It’s an extra reason to avoid it.
-
Isn't Voyager just a shit sequence for the Sphinx?
I remember climbing the Sphinx years ago and not thinking much of it. There's loads better at the grade a stone's throw away. I would be happy to voluntarily not climb a (IMO) so-so 7A+, at a venue where there's loads of *** at that grade, in order to preserve what's left of one of the best hard things on grit — at a grade I'll never climb. Probably easy for me to say as an occasional visiting climber. I fully understand why others might really want to climb the Sphinx, and that's fair enough.
I think Bonjoy makes a good point. Especially as climbing's popularity balloons. Grit is a unique, limited and fragile resource.
-
Let me put it another way. I wouldn't reclimb the Sphinx as it might damage Voyager (unless I could avoid standing on the handholds). I don't think a ban as such is the way forward, but a notice in the description to anyone considering an ascent, so they're aware of the possible damage it could cause, might be useful. In the same way various things have had comments regards not standing on key handhold pebbles.
-
I've never done the Sphinx. I'm happy to keep it that way in order to help preserve Voyager, even though I have no intention of trying Voyager... I wouldn't begrudge those who choose to climb The Sphinx anyway, if they really want to, but like Bonjoy think it's fine to advocate that people consider the consequences. Those who really want to do it can do it, for those who aren't that fussed about doing/repeating it then knowing that it was damaging another problem might make them think twice about climbing on it (e.g. me), which is fine.
-
Bit of a weird one but it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore.
:o :popcorn:
And Demon Wall...
I think anything vaguely fragile on that part of the 'cliff was fucked by hobnailers eons ago :)
How worn is the start of WoH from people doing it as boulder problem though? It was looking a bit tatty the last time I was there about 12 plus years ago.
-
How about people stop climbing Voyager to help preserve the Sphinx? It survived years without anything breaking but since people have been brushing the footholds loads it's now suffering damage... Why does Voyage take precedence over Sphinx? Voyager is a skin wrecking problem just dangling off your fingers, essentially a beastmaker workout but on really unpleasant holds *
* I've tried it in the past and I'll be trying it again...
-
Is there a way of climbing The Sphinx without stepping on any of the hand holds of Voyager?
It reminds me of when I did Whitefinger at Whitehouses, teestub reminded me politely that I really ought not to stand on the crimp when topping out, as it's potentially fragile. I didn't need to stand on it to top out, so it makes total sense that the best thing is to avoid it, even if it was marginally harder that way. Of course that's all a bit moot now :'(
-
Why does Voyage take precedence over Sphinx?
To answer a rhetorical question -because it’s a more important test piece and because of the greater investment emotional buy in, time and energy by climbers - Caminati wintering out in Sheffield etc
-
It reminds me of when I did Whitefinger at Whitehouses, teestub reminded me politely that I really ought not to stand on the crimp when topping out, as it's potentially fragile. I didn't need to stand on it to top out, so it makes total sense that the best thing is to avoid it, even if it was marginally harder that way. Of course that's all a bit moot now :'(
when I did Corporal Khan I had every intention of not standing on that crimp, until I reached the lip absolutely gassed and without hesitation declared "I'm using the crimp!" and put as much foot weight on it as possible...
I panicked, I am sorry.
-
Why does Voyage take precedence over Sphinx?
To answer a rhetorical question -because it’s a more important test piece and because of the greater investment emotional buy in, time and energy by climbers - Caminati wintering out in Sheffield etc
That’s absolute bullshit! Whilst it might be your view which you are entitled to( I don’t necessarily disagree) telling people what they can and can’t climb, and deciding what is more important is bollocks.
-
It reminds me of when I did Whitefinger at Whitehouses, teestub reminded me politely that I really ought not to stand on the crimp when topping out, as it's potentially fragile. I didn't need to stand on it to top out, so it makes total sense that the best thing is to avoid it, even if it was marginally harder that way. Of course that's all a bit moot now :'(
when I did Corporal Khan I had every intention of not standing on that crimp, until I reached the lip absolutely gassed and without hesitation declared "I'm using the crimp!" and put as much foot weight on it as possible...
I panicked, I am sorry.
Ben and I had watched a video of Warbs calmly figuring out a way to top out Dead Babies without standing on the pebbles and resolved to do the same. When we got there our eyes were on stalks and, my god, did we weight those pebbles.
Which reminds me of when Ben did The Prize, Warbs asked him to stop before topping out and brush the top break for him. Ben just said "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm quite scared" and selfishly rolled over the top.
We can't all be Dave Warburton.
-
As someone who will never climb voyager but could probably climb the sphinx, I kind of agree with Shark's post. 7A+ are ten a penny.
-
How about people stop climbing Voyager to help preserve the Sphinx? It survived years without anything breaking but since people have been brushing the footholds loads it's now suffering damage... Why does Voyage take precedence over Sphinx? Voyager is a skin wrecking problem just dangling off your fingers, essentially a beastmaker workout but on really unpleasant holds *
* I've tried it in the past and I'll be trying it again...
Whilst I take your broad point, there are a few obvious flaws/questions here:
1) No-one's experience of climbing the Sphinx appears to have been impacted by people trying Voyager, whereas the reverse has happened. (This relies on my assumption that the crystal crumbling has not notably altered the difficulty or quality of the Sphinx - correct me if that's not true)
2) Are you sure that it's survived years without anything breaking? Or is it just that no-one noticed the subtle changes for much of the time due to Voyager not yet existing or changes not affecting the Voyager holds?
deciding what is more important is bollocks.
Shark's wording has some bits I'm not sure I agree in (there's an implication that difficulty per-se makes importance), but there is a valid point there - imagine a peak with 1,000 *** 7A+s and 1 *** 8B. It would, make a lot of sense to try to preserve the 8B by not climbing one of the 7A+s - doing so makes a huge difference to some people's experiences whilst leaving the experiences of others virtually unaffected. The reverse would also be true - if you've got shit loads of 8Bs to go at it would be a pity to ruin a classic 7A+ by lapping the 8B version and breaking it.
-
How about people stop climbing Voyager to help preserve the Sphinx? It survived years without anything breaking but since people have been brushing the footholds loads it's now suffering damage... Why does Voyage take precedence over Sphinx? Voyager is a skin wrecking problem just dangling off your fingers, essentially a beastmaker workout but on really unpleasant holds *
* I've tried it in the past and I'll be trying it again...
Whilst I take your broad point, there are a few obvious flaws/questions here:
1) No-one's experience of climbing the Sphinx appears to have been impacted by people trying Voyager, whereas the reverse has happened. (This relies on my assumption that the crystal crumbling has not notably altered the difficulty or quality of the Sphinx - correct me if that's not true)
Doesn't this assume that the hand/footholds have crumbled because of traffic from the Sphinx? Ben seems to suggest the damage has been done by increased traffic, not all of it in good conditions, on Voyager.
-
We can all agree that telling people to be extra-careful climbing problems that might damage another "more important" problem is a sensible thing tho... Including only going on it in bone dry conditions, treadingly lightly, avoiding the other problem's handholds wherever possible, etc.
-
telling people what they can and can’t climb
I didn’t
-
Whilst I get all the arguments for and against this, my real problem is with telling people what they should or shouldn’t be doing. If you wanna avoid standing on a pebble do so good for you. I’d probably avoid it if possible. As bonjoy said there’s a lot to be said for making people aware in the guidebook etc.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, don’t be telling people that x problem is better/more important than y problem and therefore takes precedence.
You do your thing and let people make up their own mind about what is the right thing to do. There’s an awful lot of assuming the moral high ground these days and telling people what they should be doing!
Sorry rant over,this is aimed at no one in particular. I think I just hate rules.
-
telling people what they can and can’t climb
I didn’t
No you didn’t, I assumed by implying that voyager took precedence you were saying people shouldn’t climb Sphinx. If that’s not what you meant I’m sorry.
-
Doesn't this assume that the hand/footholds have crumbled because of traffic from the Sphinx? Ben seems to suggest the damage has been done by increased traffic, not all of it in good conditions, on Voyager.
See:
I know for a fact that the hand hold broke from someone (I'm not naming any names as I think that's a bit unfair) standing on it doing the sphynx
I assume Ben was using a rhetorical device to make the point that this could cut both ways.
-
Whilst I get all the arguments for and against this, my real problem is with telling people what they should or shouldn’t be doing. If you wanna avoid standing on a pebble do so good for you. I’d probably avoid it if possible. As bonjoy said there’s a lot to be said for making people aware in the guidebook etc.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, don’t be telling people that x problem is better/more important than y problem and therefore takes precedence.
You do your thing and let people make up their own mind about what is the right thing to do. There’s an awful lot of assuming the moral high ground these days and telling people what they should be doing!
Sorry rant over,this is aimed at no one in particular. I think I just hate rules.
Do you mean like not climbing on wet rock, drying stuff with buckets of chalk, leaving tick marks etc.
-
Leaving aside the inherent irony of the entire post/position... Your approach, applied more broadly, would mean you shouldn't advocate for a position on bolting, abseiling down classics in big muddy boots on a busy Saturday, littering (not to mention speeding, murder etc. etc.) [edit - gav beat me to it]
You do your thing and let people make up their own mind about what is the right thing to do. There’s an awful lot of assuming the moral high ground these days and telling people what they should be doing!
Surely if you have a strong view on something from a moral standpoint, you have a moral obligation to articulate the reason for that that view to others in an attempt to stop them doing the morally "bad" thing. Anything else would be somewhat internally inconsistent.
Anyway, it sounds like we agree broadly on saying that it makes sense to make people aware that there are reasons why you might choose to forego doing the Sphinx out of altruism
-
Which reminds me of when Ben did The Prize, Warbs asked him to stop before topping out and brush the top break for him. Ben just said "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm quite scared" and selfishly rolled over the top.
He had good reason to be scared; when James was cleaning it on a rope he ripped off a massive hold from that top bit :lol:
:offtopic:
-
Whilst I get all the arguments for and against this, my real problem is with telling people what they should or shouldn’t be doing. If you wanna avoid standing on a pebble do so good for you. I’d probably avoid it if possible. As bonjoy said there’s a lot to be said for making people aware in the guidebook etc.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, don’t be telling people that x problem is better/more important than y problem and therefore takes precedence.
You do your thing and let people make up their own mind about what is the right thing to do. There’s an awful lot of assuming the moral high ground these days and telling people what they should be doing!
Sorry rant over,this is aimed at no one in particular. I think I just hate rules.
Do you mean like not climbing on wet rock, drying stuff with buckets of chalk, leaving tick marks etc.
No not really, I was meaning more in the outside world. These are good points though, it’s more with the general tone. The above are all great examples which we have all probably been guilty of breaking to some degree or other over the years, what was acceptable 10yrs ago often isn’t now. I think everyone changes their views to move with the times. It’s more the way people are very happy (even take pleasure)in pointing out others mistakes these days. I just prefer a more subtle approach I suppose. Or maybe I just hate being told what to do or think.
If someone politely told me I shouldn’t be climbing a problem because it had been superseded by another problem because it was better and more important I would probably impolitely tell them to go away.
-
Leaving aside the inherent irony of the entire post/position... Your approach, applied more broadly, would mean you shouldn't advocate for a position on bolting, abseiling down classics in big muddy boots on a busy Saturday, littering (not to mention speeding, murder etc. etc.) [edit - gav beat me to it]
Murder and speeding are definitely wrong is voyager definitely better/more important than Sphinx? It’s more where the right or wrong isn’t quite so black and white. Gavs examples are like speeding( definitely wrong)
-
I agree NY, the problem with any argument / debate that starts with assuming the moral high ground is that it places anyone who disagrees in an uncomfortable bind. To openly disagree leaves them being experienced as bad and to keep shut on the subject leaves them feeling bad. So the reaction is take your opinion and stick it.
-
If I saw someone climbing on rock that I thought wasn’t dry enough I would have a word, I wouldn’t then come on here and post some pictures and talk about what morons they were. If people want to do that fine (it does get the message out there) I just don’t really agree with that approach.
Does that make sense? I’m definitely not condoning murder or tick marks.....
-
No you didn’t, I assumed by implying that voyager took precedence you were saying people shouldn’t climb Sphinx. If that’s not what you meant I’m sorry.
Voyager has more status as a significant testpiece. I think we can all agree on that? That it confers it with greater precedence seems blindingly obvious to me. Whether that precedence is sufficient to dissuade people from climbing it or not depends on their viewpoint primarily of how much they want to do Sphinx and how much they care for current and future Voyager aspirants.
. :devangel:
-
No you didn’t, I assumed by implying that voyager took precedence you were saying people shouldn’t climb Sphinx. If that’s not what you meant I’m sorry.
Voyager has more status as a significant testpiece. I think we can all agree on that? That it confers it with greater precedence seems blindingly obvious to me. Whether that precedence is sufficient to dissuade people from climbing it or not depends on their viewpoint primarily of how much they want to do Sphinx and how much they care for current and future Voyager aspirants.
. :devangel:
So are you telling people they shouldn’t climb the Sphinx or not? Is that your reason for not climbing it (fair enough)
Is it the reason why joe bloggs shouldn’t climb it (not fair enough in my view)
-
Just chip the crystals off and turn a finger-mangling 8B into a lovely 8C. The 8C climbers will be delighted that the hardest problem on grit is actually good and the 8B punters can shuffle off back to the Tor or Earth Quarry where they belong. Win win.
-
Is that your reason for not climbing it (fair enough)
Surely all anyone's doing on here is saying this and giving their reasons, and then inviting others to make up their own minds?
-
It’s more where the right or wrong isn’t quite so black and white.
Who gets to say? For starters, I'd say hold damage is far more "wrong" than tickmarks since it's difficult to undo. Bear in mind there are plenty out there who don't believe in moral absolutes too. It was really a critique of your broader point anyway.
I agree NY, the problem with any argument / debate that starts with assuming the moral high ground is that it places anyone who disagrees in an uncomfortable bind. To openly disagree leaves them being experienced as bad and to keep shut on the subject leaves them feeling bad. So the reaction is take your opinion and stick it.
I'm sure we're all happy to reframe the debate as "would it be worthwhile most people avoiding climbing the Sphinx, unless it really matters to them" rather than "it's perhaps worth people not climbing the Sphinx anymore", if that helps.
So are you telling people they shouldn’t climb the Sphinx or not? Is that your reason for not climbing it (fair enough)
Is it the reason why joe bloggs shouldn’t climb it (not fair enough in my view)
Maybe I'm mischaracterizing Simon's position, but I'd assume that he'd say broadly what others have suggested - Joe Bloggs should add the consideration that his ascent might damage Voyager to his decision making, and then decide whether he wants to climb the Sphinx. There is a good reason why he might choose not to, if he's not that fussed about doing it vs just going and doing something else (I fall into this camp, as others have said they do). Maybe you can have a punt at arguing why Joe Bloggs shouldn't dry things with lots of chalk, use tickmarks or climb on damp rock without trying yourself in some knots over how those arguments might also apply to this scenario, albeit in a slightly modified form (it will all involve some level of impacting on other people's "fun" in a way that's not considered "necessary" - i.e. will the level of enjoyment you get out of it justify the potential impact to other people's levels of enjoyment)
-
Is that your reason for not climbing it (fair enough)
Surely all anyone's doing on here is saying this and giving their reasons, and then inviting others to make up their own minds?
Is it? If so then fair enough.
-
It’s more where the right or wrong isn’t quite so black and white.
Who gets to say? For starters, I'd say hold damage is far more "wrong" than tickmarks since it's difficult to undo. Bear in mind there are plenty out there who don't believe in moral absolutes too. It was really a critique of your broader point anyway.
What broader point?
My only real point is that I don’t think it’s ok to tell people not to climb certain problems to protect others. I expressed an opinion that I dislike the way people are keen to tell everyone what they should or should not be doing! That’s all either I’m getting confused or you are reading way too much into it.
-
So are you telling people they shouldn’t climb the Sphinx or not? Is that your reason for not climbing it (fair enough)
Is it the reason why joe bloggs shouldn’t climb it (not fair enough in my view)
I’m not. My personal reason for not climbing is that it is too high and scary. There’s a difference between saying someone shouldn’t and someone can’t. (Lockdown rules vs guidance have made us all more aware of that sort of distinction recently)
Saying that Voyager has more precedence is not the same as telling people not to climb Sphinx.
It would be good if a Sphinx aspirant knows and factor in that they run the risk of damaging a more important problem but the decision is there’s to make in a situation like this in terms of our climbing ethics.
It’s not any individuals place to lay down the law. It might be that widespread consensus forms that it is best practice not to climb it but even that’s is still guidance rather than a rule.
-
What broader point?
The part of my post that you quoted was a response to your broader point on people "telling" each other what they should/shouldn't do (actually it's all just been suggestions anyway):
my real problem is with telling people what they should or shouldn’t be doing.
You do your thing and let people make up their own mind about what is the right thing to do. There’s an awful lot of assuming the moral high ground these days and telling people what they should be doing!
I was saying that posting this was inherently ironic (i.e. telling people that they shouldn't be telling people what to do), and that it leads to a position where you can't strongly advocate against anything (be that not climbing damp rock, tickmarks, bolting, abseiling down classics in big muddy boots on a busy Saturday, littering etc.). Fundamentally it strikes me that you're probably fine with telling people what they should/shouldn't be doing when you agree (ticks, damp rock) but not when you don't. Which is fine, but internally inconsistent with your claimed dislike of people telling each other what they should/shouldn't be doing. You said you just don't like this when it's not black and white, but given that you're deciding what's black and white, it all starts to fall apart a bit...
p.s. I probably agree with you more than you think about people telling others what they "should" be doing, on the whole. One of my pet hates has always been people saying others climbed for the "right" or "wrong" reasons, which seems absurd to me. Who cares what motivates you - if it motivates you then great. Obviously when things impact on other people than it gets more nuanced...
-
My original point was posed as a question. I probably wont reclimb Sphinx, but if I hadn't already and I really wanted to I'd probably look at the holds and make a judgment. It's possible that all the fragile bits have all come off now and the holds are now stable (wet hold caveats apply), or could be made so with a couple of drops of superglue. Impossible to say without looking.
I'd be really gutted if I damaged Voyager though. Not because hard equals better, rather because climbs at this grade on grit are super rare (as per abarro's post) and small changes make a big difference.
-
As no one has any enforcement power it makes no difference whether you say shouldn’t, can’t or “would prefer it if you didn’t”.
On the wider point of whether Voyager is of greater value to the Sphinx then I’d say it is. They are probably (certainly to a non climber) aesthetically similar it’s just that 8bs are rarer than 7a+ and society values rarity even though to an individual like me the Sphinx has more utility as it is a climb I could use.
-
Shark we agree!
Barrows oh the irony indeed! To be fair I very rarely tell anyone not to do anything, it’s usually the other way round, hence my dislike of it.
It’s a bit of a catch 22, saying anything it makes me a hypocrite but there you go, I probably am. Just out of interest do you think it’s ok to tell people not to climb x because y takes precedence( yeah I get no one is actually saying that, but that did seem to be the implication) anyway I’m gonna get back in my box I’ll be back out in a couple months when the boredom strikes again.
-
Another classic yet slightly different example is everybody going bat shit about climbing wet grit yet when there was a film made about the wideboyz climbing the staffordshire nose in record time wet conditions, I don't remember anyone batting an eyelid. Not that I gave a shit, but I do remember thinking wtf when some punter came under fire for scrambling up a chimney at crook rise on a bmc day out.
-
Shark we agree!
Thank god for that!
anyway I’m gonna get back in my box I’ll be back out in a couple months when the boredom strikes again.
:lol:
-
This has always crossed my mind when I've thought about the sphinx. It has been on my radar for things to do for years but never got round to it so far. I've always thought that it would be a pity to destroy voyager by standing on the holds.
-
Just out of interest do you think it’s ok to tell people not to climb x because y takes precedence( yeah I get no one is actually saying that, but that did seem to be the implication)
Hmm... I think it depends on the context.
99% of the time no, I don't think you should tell someone not to climb X because Y is better/more important/harder. E.g. if you're on rainshadow it doesn't mean you should get to queue-jump the people on raindogs, or that people should stop climbing raindogs to reduce the queues on rainshadow. But, we should all try to not screw each other over, e.g. you might agree that the person on rainshadow would go first, run up to the roof quickly, pull the rope through and then work on the roof while the other person then works the bottom of raindogs.
The only thing here is that doing the Sphinx might impact on people's ability to try Voyager in the future, not just in the present... In a hypothetical scenario where there was a 10% chance that each ascent of the Sphinx would irreversibly break Voyager and a 0% chance that climbing Voyager would break the the same hold, I think it would be fair enough to think/say that people "shouldn't" climb it. Obviously that's not how it really is, but I can definitely create scenarios where I think it's ok to say someone shouldn't climb X in order to preserve Y
-
You know, back In the good ole days there were so few of us, and everyone knew everyone else.
That meant we could just do whatever the fuck we liked and if someone objected it could all be sorted out with a punch up in the heights, or as Gav knows to his cost, the broadie.
These days that’s been replaced by people expressing mild disapproval on the internet. It’s so stifling. How i long for those simpler days.
-
Bored again, kids are in bed! Take me back to the punch up days to be honest. Despite what people might claim is or isn’t the case, In my experience people are much more forthcoming with their views and criticism of others online.
Back on topic,for me it’s not about voyager and the Sphinx.The grades are irrelevant as is quality or popularity,it’s about not telling other people what they should think or what they should do.
-
Not bored of the irony I see ;)
-
Apparently not! It’s a good job your here to keep pointing it out. :boxing:
-
Just to check, do Derbyshire Police have the automatic power to issue fines for climbing The Sphinx, or it is a matter of police discretion?
-
Just to check, do Derbyshire Police have the automatic power to issue fines for climbing The Sphinx, or it is a matter of police discretion?
Skull cracking, arrest and incarceration take place based on an individual officers assessment of bad footwork.
-
How i long for those simpler days.
I'm sure you could get someone to punch you in the broadie if you tried hard enough Stu.
-
What happened to the topic split with this vid posted?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PsnxDQvQpw
-
Here: https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,31180.msg633087/topicseen.html#msg633087
-
So to summarise..
By the accepted norms of 'quality' in bouldering, Voyager is an excellent 2-star problem, flawed slightly by it relying on the delicate footholds of the neighbouring problem for hands.
The search for the holy grail of a 3-star grit 8b remains?
The end.
-
The search for the holy grail of a 3-star grit 8b remains?
Have you not been to Yorkshire?
-
Is there an 8B link up in dwr yet?
-
It would never get 8B even if there was.
-
Which one takes priority over the other isn't an issue to me.
What it highlights is more damage to the rock and once the rock is open, more damage can easily follow.
This isn't a new issue with grit but seems more and more in discussion.
The message about not climbing on damp or wet grit/sandstone doesn't seem to be sinking in. I don't know who the culprits are but as more and more climb outside for the 1st and often travelling a long way. Is it a case of "we have driven for 3 hours, I'm not going home. Let's just climb"
I've seen lots of posts online explaining why not to do it, the people doing it surely have seen it talked about. They are choosing to ignore this unwritten/not so unwritten rule.
-
I’ve lost track of the number of times recently I’ve thought there is a need for more transfer from indoors to outdoors courses. Some operators provide them but overall I don’t think the need is being met. With coaching and good training facilities it is no longer true that the first forays outside are going to be on F5+ / V diff either.
-
Pretty sure the opposite is true. People starting climbing outdoors will be happy to start at the bottom, but regular wall users who are bouldering or doing routes in the mid 7s will often think they should be able to do the same outdoors.
-
Pretty sure the opposite is true.
The opposite to what?
-
Sorry, unclear, not wanting to start on V.diff / F5+
-
Totally agree, I think entry level standards (or expectations, at least) outdoors have shot up because people can get so strong indoors first.