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the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Nibile on March 12, 2021, 02:38:19 pm
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In order to finally climb my board project I've gone back to some PE training, but I need some advice.
The project is 30 moves long in a 53 degrees board.
It takes roughly a couple of minutes, can't climb faster because the holds and fooholds need lots of precision.
The moves in themselves aren't too hard: I can do each single move on its own even when quite boxed, but there are no rests.
There are three blocks of 10 moves, progressively harder.
Last June, after lockdown training, I fell two holds from the top: I was boxed and openhanding everything, relying on friction.
I can't go back to that kind of training because now I have very little time (climbing 12 moves problems with 5" pause on every move).
Now I can climb each 10 moves block and the first 18/19 moves.
So, I started doing foot on campusing, with a 1/1 work/rest ratio. 30" blocks. I started from 5 sets, in a few weeks I got to 15 sets.
Now then: I believe I need to improve the ratio, going to maybe 30/20 work/rest, and so on.
But my question is another: is the 30" blocks duration a wise choice or should I change it, using for instance 45" or even 1'?
Cheers.
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The kind of power endurance training you are doing is what I'd normally do in a peak phase - i.e high intensity, work to failure etc.
The 1:1 work/rest ratio is fine for aerobic type stuff in a base phase where volume is high and intensity is low. For a peak phase I'd want closer to 1:2.
However, a guiding principle for peak phase PE is to try and make it specific. So I'd usually do a large base of easier, higher volume work followed by a peak phase which is more-or-less specific to my goals.
By specific I mean duration on the wall, angle and style.
So why not add weight to your foot on campus and make it so that a ~2min circuit is tough. Then do reps of a ~2min circuit with longer rest time (~4 mins) between reps. Make your pacing similar to the board project. Tune the weight so failure is reached after 5-6 reps, and increase the weight as fitness improves.
Carry on until the weight plateaus.
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Stu cheers, much appreciated.
So, I understand that I'm mixing things up... as usual.
I think I should add a few more info: I have limited training tools. The foot on campusing is on the board, so 53 degrees, big foothold, good first joint incut rungs.
The board project is the easiest circuit I could set on the board.
I can't set a 2' circuit that I can do, let alone with weights...
I don't know if I can do 2' foot on campusing at the moment.
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For this kind of thing I'd prob just do it on the proj if it's on your board:
Section 1 - Rest - Section 2 - Rest - Section 3
Start with rest times long enough that you can do all 3 sections... gradually decrease rest until it gets to zero!
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Cheers Alex, that sounds good. I'll give it a serious go.
As for my original question, what do you think?
I ask this because not always I have time to properly climb on the board, so I have to sack it and do foot on campusing (often I don't even have time to warm up).
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Given your target, I'd consider changing structure slightly for those sessions. It doesn't seem worth adding more blocks - you're already at 15 x 30" = 7' 30" for something that's only 2' or so long. Of course there are good reasons to train "over distance", but I'm with Stu on making the PE work somewhat specific where possible.
e.g. if you can't do the 2 min suggested by Stu, what about:
4 x 30s with short rest in between (e.g. start with 30s, then reduce this time)
- rest 4-6 minutes -
repeat
- rest 4-6 minutes -
repeat...
Do this for your more pumpy PE sessions, then do my earlier suggestions for the more short/powerful PE sessions and come at the target from both directions...
Of course there are a million ways to approach it, like your first suggestion. I've often taken blocks of 45-60" of foot-on-campus and cut the rest between them each session, and seen good results. But then I'm usually training for something a lot longer than 2 min of climbing! If you're going to take that route I would be tempted to move up from 30" to longer intervals e.g. 1' with 1' to 1' 30" rest and then start cutting the time down on those
But don't listen too hard to me, all I do nowadays is intervals massaging anti-inflammatories into my fingers!
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Cheers, much appreciated.
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But don't listen too hard to me, all I do nowadays is intervals massaging anti-inflammatories into my fingers!
Sorry to hear about that.
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This is worth adding to your library.
https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/50104760/The_effect_of_training_volume_and_intens20161104-15881-1rrnfnm.pdf?1478277767=&response-content-disposition=attachment%3B+filename%3DThe_effect_of_training_volume_and_intens.pdf&Expires=1615629088&Signature=OkWIQvwU79EyOUZe9k4~AkufFMqdVjz7Mm6KAMG2awtVQ-FvXXJybfyPNk8aruRsuMG3SgsqQmHu4kvX04RmE39fvZglKNhbsB6unsYGUirBVQJdJov~7jZwcSgRIO-WMJpVLGFfl9s65VJgnaTjMtnA5zjIeioCr5CAQtcAQ11P1s5am-2tPdG4llHyWMSXSc0UpCRMZK0VMNzvQuH02-JDDkF4av91bh2nrbZ~rLOkIE1GSteSm5z39yNSG-WUkQa8VdA-gXw8V9tXxAOhncVzumQ4MU733B5D1xVW-DLcSrqAfXLF~0b22qzvRPO9iRt~YI46BrCASMCBt5YD9A__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA (https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/50104760/The_effect_of_training_volume_and_intens20161104-15881-1rrnfnm.pdf?1478277767=&response-content-disposition=attachment%3B+filename%3DThe_effect_of_training_volume_and_intens.pdf&Expires=1615629088&Signature=OkWIQvwU79EyOUZe9k4~AkufFMqdVjz7Mm6KAMG2awtVQ-FvXXJybfyPNk8aruRsuMG3SgsqQmHu4kvX04RmE39fvZglKNhbsB6unsYGUirBVQJdJov~7jZwcSgRIO-WMJpVLGFfl9s65VJgnaTjMtnA5zjIeioCr5CAQtcAQ11P1s5am-2tPdG4llHyWMSXSc0UpCRMZK0VMNzvQuH02-JDDkF4av91bh2nrbZ~rLOkIE1GSteSm5z39yNSG-WUkQa8VdA-gXw8V9tXxAOhncVzumQ4MU733B5D1xVW-DLcSrqAfXLF~0b22qzvRPO9iRt~YI46BrCASMCBt5YD9A__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA)
Nothing earth shattering, but nicely illustrates the difference between “E” and “P” training; so you can see how “PE” would sit along the spectrum in between.
I’m thinking people, perhaps, need to be more specific about their goals, when determining a PE program. Because there’s a big difference between banging out a longish/highball/multimove boulder and a 20 mtr sport pitch.
So training/rest ratios should move with desired outcomes.
Perhaps we should start splitting it into Pe, pE and PE...
(I’m kidding).
Actually, thinking about it...
My upper and lower case training split was tongue in cheek.
However, we tend to think about “PE” training as if it exists in isolation of “H” (Hypertrophy) but it doesn’t. So you actually get PEH.
At the extremes of Strength training and Endurance training, Hypertrophy isn’t much of an issue. The moment you move into a PE phase, Hypertrophy is going to be occurring. Wouldn’t it seem wise, to plan this phase around the described peaks and troughs in the likes of Insulin Growth factor?
I’m not asserting here, I’m asking.
Partly because I was reading this the other day:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brad-Schoenfeld/publication/321296945_The_role_of_hormones_in_muscle_hypertrophy/links/5a1ad2daa6fdcc50adec77a9/The-role-of-hormones-in-muscle-hypertrophy.pdf?origin=publication_detail (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brad-Schoenfeld/publication/321296945_The_role_of_hormones_in_muscle_hypertrophy/links/5a1ad2daa6fdcc50adec77a9/The-role-of-hormones-in-muscle-hypertrophy.pdf?origin=publication_detail)
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As an aside.
Signing up here, for those who haven’t heard of it, gets you some interesting links in your inbox.
https://www.academia.edu/ (https://www.academia.edu/)
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Perhaps we should start splitting it into Pe, pE and PE...
(I’m kidding).
Don't be kidding! I used to use just that when talking about different parts of the PE spectrum. Spanish and French often use "short resistance", "long resistance" respectively (not sure if they have a middle one). Now I usually call Pe an pow and pE longer aero pow with PE being the shorter aero pow.. which is actually probably less useful and descriptive than my old approach in many ways!
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Don’t get me started on the names climbers have given to different types of training. Some of the least useful terminology ever.
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Spanish and French often use "short resistance", "long resistance" respectively (not sure if they have a middle one).
Tres bloc > Bloc > Resi courte > Resi > Resi longue > Conti > Conti de merde > Conti de bordel de merde
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But don't listen too hard to me, all I do nowadays is intervals massaging anti-inflammatories into my fingers!
This just popped up on my insta feed and made me think of your post, Alex.
(https://i.ibb.co/DMPZW0y/B06-E301-B-57-F7-4-A4-B-8-C6-E-E4-F1-C86-AD10-D.jpg)
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As an aside.
Signing up here, for those who haven’t heard of it, gets you some interesting links in your inbox.
https://www.academia.edu/ (https://www.academia.edu/)
Longtime member, really useful. But I have to read 130 papers...
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Spanish and French often use "short resistance", "long resistance" respectively (not sure if they have a middle one).
Tres bloc > Bloc > Resi courte > Resi > Resi longue > Conti > Conti de merde > Conti de bordel de merde
While we're on the topic, sometimes I see "gross resi" e.g. "gross resi de biceps" which always grabs my eye as my kinda thing! Does this mean the same as resi longue or is it more like saying it's really/particularly resistant (in the biceps)?
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Spanish and French often use "short resistance", "long resistance" respectively (not sure if they have a middle one).
Tres bloc > Bloc > Resi courte > Resi > Resi longue > Conti > Conti de merde > Conti de bordel de merde
While we're on the topic, sometimes I see "gross resi" e.g. "gross resi de biceps" which always grabs my eye as my kinda thing! Does this mean the same as resi longue or is it more like saying it's really/particularly resistant (in the biceps)?
It's the latter. The biceps should perhaps not be taken literally, but colour me surprised if there were a bunch of small holds on the route.
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OK, so this is both an update for all you guys who have lost sleep over my project progess, and a self reminder.
PE is going fine, despite having very little time to dedicate to it. Sessions keep coming but volume is very low.
So, I've chosen to work on 3' target for the project.
On the system I am now able to do 30"x6 with just 5" rests in between goes, and it's good.
Still on the system 1'x3 with 20" rests in between goes.
It's quite clear that the longer the work, the harder is for me to recover, because the 30" routine feels better than the 1' one.
On the circuit I can do it in two halves, from start to move 20/21, then 1' rest then to the top.
Let's see how we move on from here.
I've also realized a lot of past errors: years ago I was able to stay on the system for over 3' regularly, but still had no chance on the project. I understand now that on the system the foothold is big and incut, and I could therefore shake out, while on the project I can't.
Now I'm doing my PE without shaking out, to mimic at best the real thing.
I'll keep going like this, reducing rests between goes on both routines and training on the circuit as currently. At some point rests should disappear and I should climb the project, for my first 9a.