UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: andy popp on May 28, 2019, 01:08:40 am
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Steve McClure climbed the headwall project at Nesscliffe today, extensively tried by Nick, Ed Booth, others and most notably, Caff. E10/8c apparently.
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That's a very understated headline for the FA of one of the Uk's hardest trad routes, I suggest you never get a job as a clickbait headline writer. McClure what a consistent wad!
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I suggest you never get a job as a clickbait headline writer.
Britain’s most dangerous climb? Rock superman DESTROYS other climbers with this one weird trick. What he did at 8m will AMAZE you!
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Fantastic stuff.
For those who might have missed it:
https://www.facebook.com/dmmclimbing/videos/2306874796191937
One of the most inspiring things I've seen recently.
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Asked Steve how it went
was super close on lead, looked even closer than Caff's fall from the top except somehow I managed to stay on. Think I was more scared than him. He's used to falls like that. Whereas I'm just a boring sport climber.
Pics and full write by Keith Sharples to follow
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For those who might have missed it:
https://www.facebook.com/dmmclimbing/videos/2306874796191937
One of the most inspiring things I've seen recently.
I’m curious as to what you find inspiring, is it the commitment above rubbish gear?
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Mostly that, plus having confidence in the good lower gear despite being miles above it, plus a large chunk of it being Nesscliffe in general.
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Asked Steve how it went
Whereas I'm just a boring sport climber.
Who’s flashed E8 and climbed E11 and other E9s -10.
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Hmm. Caff's next new route name could be interesting after this. :popcorn:
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FWIW, those top runners are just bird beak things that I gather are only there to keep the rope from going behind your leg. They're not supposed to hold any real weight.
I think I saw some comments from Caff on Facebook asking that Steve leave this alone until he'd had a bit more time on it. A sarcastic comment about it being easier to parachute in once the holds and sequences are worked out as well. Can anyone find these? Will there be beef? Is there any shit to stir? What's the goss?
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I think I saw some comments from Caff on Facebook asking that Steve leave this alone until he'd had a bit more time on it. A sarcastic comment about it being easier to parachute in once the holds and sequences are worked out as well. Can anyone find these?
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcClureClimber/photos/a.308196242676559/1360460144116825/?type=3&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARDIgpDZCEqVt75LaoOIePdT-9KiIhoZo0gLu6qDOMeXOLeOYFKZOwrCtMaFneFLHk6GwPq2KZb3T4C1jyR_dZ780Fz43LTo5ZVGyeRWYjpiVTrixx3QF0G0zufhGMUr7W6pFXCttzUiCQz5gQR1OVeXDCHXpBoHuIcQepo3LsIXTPRjKbyRRqsnmmtoWHoy8nn_yAkFB5ARLAVgyN7CkfpxqVzdcVhveDFskRCfyCxxNJpADXj7QGQurz7OP133_f9j7OKcQv74yatI_xADYQGo_iQbQ9261ylP_tMsNNKwNzAfsoRHXXQ143_5A5hFdGF0SEyGyvLvcCO8JMniM0RHzw&__tn__=-R
:jab: :popcorn:
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Hmm. Caff's next new route name could be interesting after this. :popcorn:
A lesson about not posting on social media attempts of new trad routes until he'd sealed the deal?
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I think I saw some comments from Caff on Facebook asking that Steve leave this alone until he'd had a bit more time on it. A sarcastic comment about it being easier to parachute in once the holds and sequences are worked out as well. Can anyone find these? Will there be beef? Is there any shit to stir? What's the goss?
It was an open project as Nick Dixon was encouraging Caff and Steve to get on it. Even so Steve got in touch with Caff to clear things and Caff texted something to the effect of that if he hadn't sent it by the end of the week (last week) then it was fair game as he was sick of trying it in crap conditions.
Sorry
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https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcClureClimber/
Steve's posted re the route on FB
if you scroll down there's the comments you're talking about on an earlier post.
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It might be an interesting name because Caff likes provocative route names, and this feels like another of those events in the fine tradition of the route that got away. Black Sunday for example, on Esk. Great little tale behind it.
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www.facebook.com/SteveMcClureClimber
The Nesscliffe Headwall project goes down. A fluke window of opportunity taken. I'd convinced myself it would be OK, running it way out there on the top wall. After all, the maths looks acceptable; gear at about 12m, potential fall from 18m. But on lead it was all just a little harder and that final stretch was horrifyingly close. Just about recovered today and got my heart back in the right place after it ended up in my mouth.
GreatNess Wall. E10 7a, or something like that, but total three star.
Thanks to Ed and Adam Booth for the catch and Nick Dixon for the inspiration.
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I suggest you never get a job as a clickbait headline writer.
Britain’s most dangerous climb? Rock superman DESTROYS other climbers with this one weird trick. What he did at 8m will AMAZE you!
You're hired!
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I think I saw some comments from Caff on Facebook asking that Steve leave this alone until he'd had a bit more time on it. A sarcastic comment about it being easier to parachute in once the holds and sequences are worked out as well. Can anyone find these? Will there be beef? Is there any shit to stir? What's the goss?
It was an open project as Nick Dixon was encouraging Caff and Steve to get on it. Even so Steve got in touch with Caff to clear things and Caff texted something to the effect of that if he hadn't sent it by the end of the week (last week) then it was fair game as he was sick of trying it in crap conditions.
Sorry
Very disappointing.
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Excellent news. Good name.
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Good name.
Not least as the crag actually lies in the parish of Great Ness (not nearby Little Ness).
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Keith's exhaustive write up (https://www.climber.co.uk/news/latest-news/steve-mcclure-talks-about-his-first-ascent-of-the-nesscliffe-headwall-project.html?fbclid=IwAR2ZdR2BvRZFS08zvG1YnLUqG9vbG3tvo1NUOFk_g1QNWyvP_5iWxnfwJ3M)
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Not exhaustive enough to explain where on Nesscliffe it actually is though. Can anyone tell me which routes it’s between please?
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Direct finish to Bird Brain (which traverses rightwards into the top of Tombola). Good video of Nick Dixon on the top section here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0NLFikB0J2o
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Go for it cheque!
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😂 😂
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Good stuff, glad Caff had willingly opened it up and there's no drama.
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If you refer to my Twitter and Insta (social media plug) pic comments you will see a bit of beef. :jab:
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Go for it cheque!
;D Driving down now.
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If you refer to my Twitter and Insta (social media plug) pic comments you will see a bit of beef. :jab:
That’s going to have taken the shine off the ascent for Steve no doubt.
Given that Steve had cleared it with him it’s especially unwarranted.
Think he should apologise
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Never mind the feelings of ownership of projects, that's normal.
What I want to know, and having wanted to know for a long time, how come England's best climber is fifty years old?
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Never mind the feelings of ownership of projects, that's normal.
What I want to know, and having wanted to know for a long time, how come England's best climber is fifty years old?
I'd love to see him try and keep up with the young bucks on a Rocklands trip.
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Never mind the feelings of ownership of projects, that's normal.
What I want to know, and having wanted to know for a long time, how come England's best climber is fifty years old?
Tenacity and an ‘engineers brain’.
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Are we sure this isn’t just some banter from Caff?
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If you refer to my Twitter and Insta (social media plug) pic comments you will see a bit of beef. :jab:
That’s going to have taken the shine off the ascent for Steve no doubt.
Given that Steve had cleared it with him it’s especially unwarranted.
Think he should apologise
Surely everything that Caff writes on social media should be taken as tongue in cheek?
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I wouldn’t necessarily say everything but in this instance if he did indeed give Steve the go ahead then maybe he’s just bantering? I’d like to think it’s just a joke anyway.
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Never mind the feelings of ownership of projects, that's normal.
What I want to know, and having wanted to know for a long time, how come England's best climber is fifty years old?
Incredibly strong fingers and no body weight.
Not on twatter or instawank so dunno what's going on. Hope it's all peaceful.
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Looks like it's getting juicy...
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Not on twatter or instawank so dunno what's going on. Hope it's all peaceful.
You don't need an account on either to read public posts.
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CONFIRMED BEEF!
Doylo has played a blinder here. He must be raking in the followers since his picture is hosting the spat.
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To be honest this wants splitting to a different thread about when is it ok to try a project somebody else is already trying and leave this thread to discuss the route and Steve's impressive accent
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Leaning towards Caff here but sounds like a good thread in the offing as its an interesting topic.
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A split would be good. I don't read twuntter nor instacrap except when people link me to pictures of cute cattos and doggos on the latter.
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To be honest this wants splitting to a different thread about when is it ok to try a project somebody else is already trying and leave this thread to discuss the route and Steve's impressive accent
Climbing history without any beef wouldn't be half as interesting
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I can sympathise with both here. If it's a well known project that Nick has pointed both people at then it can hardly be a closed project. But if Caff has put in the work to unlock a sequence on tiny sandstone crimps, then that's worth something significant. But an idle browse of social media shows photos (@marc_langley) of him top roping the route with the holds chalked - which is plain daft. Maybe that's because Caff can just assume that nobody else good enough is interested or will stay away, or maybe it's because photographers can't keep their stuff back in this age of instant gratification. Why not release the photos once the deed is done? There will be lots of "well known projects" out there that are within the grasp of plenty of good climbers (anybody think Jim Pope couldn't have walked up this?) - it's creating a buzz around them that actually gets them done. Had there been media silence around this then I don't doubt that Caff would have got there first.
He's definitely right about the name though. Awful awful name for one of England's hardest trad routes.
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Steve's impressive accent
Looking forward to McClure doing a risque stand up turn at the next BMC AGM where he impersonates various different nationalities. :clap2:
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I can sympathise with both here. If it's a well known project that Nick has pointed both people at then it can hardly be a closed project.
You're right, it can't. But Caff is claiming he specifically asked Steve to give him a little more time, a request that was ignored. Of course, people are free to do as they wish, but I've always believed such requests should be respected and honoured, at least for a reasonable period of time.
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I can sympathise with both here. If it's a well known project that Nick has pointed both people at then it can hardly be a closed project.
You're right, it can't. But Caff is claiming he specifically asked Steve to give him a little more time, a request that was ignored. Of course, people are free to do as they wish, but I've always believed such requests should be respected and honoured, at least for a reasonable period of time.
Steve's side of the story is that he asked and Caff said something about "if its not done by the end of the week". I'm not sure if that was before dropping the finishing hold? I guess that getting that close could really renew the psyche for the route.
Maybe Caff didn't feel it was right to block access to someone else, but then there's no place to then go slagging when someone does step in.
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But Caff is claiming he specifically asked Steve to give him a little more time, a request that was ignored.
Mentioned in a reply https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx2SoJRjx4g/
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I can sympathise with both here. If it's a well known project that Nick has pointed both people at then it can hardly be a closed project.
You're right, it can't. But Caff is claiming he specifically asked Steve to give him a little more time, a request that was ignored. Of course, people are free to do as they wish, but I've always believed such requests should be respected and honoured, at least for a reasonable period of time.
Steve's side of the story is that he asked and Caff said something about "if its not done by the end of the week". I'm not sure if that was before dropping the finishing hold? I guess that getting that close could really renew the psyche for the route.
Maybe Caff didn't feel it was right to block access to someone else, but then there's no place to then go slagging when someone does step in.
Just to be clear, I'm not judging the ins and outs of these particular events - I'm in no position to. Rather, it was meant to be a general statement of principles. I know others think differently and that anything goes.
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Yeah, at the end of the day, it's a real shame that two bona fide legends have fallen out, whatever the in's and out's of it all. I blame that shit Doyle but then again the copter pastiche was pretty hilarious.
I've just realised that by posting this, I have probably joined the ranks of the Cyberwankers, dammit.
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But Caff is claiming he specifically asked Steve to give him a little more time, a request that was ignored.
Mentioned in a reply https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx2SoJRjx4g/
The Endarkenment. McClure can climb 'em, Caff can name 'em.
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Joined?? I thought you were part of their high command??
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Yeah, at the end of the day, it's a real shame that two bona fide legends have fallen out, whatever the in's and out's of it all. I blame that shit Doyle but then again the copter pastiche was pretty hilarious.
I've just realised that by posting this, I have probably joined the ranks of the Cyberwankers, dammit.
Can’t blame me pal when I posted the pic it had been reported that there was no bad blood and Caff wasn’t too miffed and had given the OK. :P pic was just a bit of fun , and it’s all gone belly up since .
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CONFIRMED BEEF!
Doylo has played a blinder here. He must be raking in the followers since his picture is hosting the spat.
I’ll get rid of them again next week by posting a few baby pics.
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That makes it even funnier in a way - confluence of the spheres or something? Good work on the pic, funny as sin.
Dunc - the only high command I'm familiar with is asking for the sound system to be turned up ;D
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But Caff is claiming he specifically asked Steve to give him a little more time, a request that was ignored.
Mentioned in a reply https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx2SoJRjx4g/
Yes - Caff asked that Steve leave it for him till the end of the week which he did
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CONFIRMED BEEF!
Doylo has played a blinder here. He must be raking in the followers since his picture is hosting the spat.
I’ll get rid of them again next week by posting a few baby pics.
Dudno Monkey man montage please. With a couple of Gaskins In for good measure 👍😃
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Just had a chat with Dave Thomas in my garage. Strange old week....
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for those of us not on instatwat, could someone post the link to photo in question please?
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https://www.instagram.com/p/ByAyftDD25x/
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That's a very understated headline for the FA of one of the Uk's hardest trad routes,
The longer this goes on, the prouder I am of my thread title.
In reality, its all turning into a bit of a shame. But in another reality, its also probably nothing compared to the bitterness of some of the rivalries in the past.
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Exactly. My housemate just read the Peak Rock extract about ‘Ninth Life’, with Jerry and Woodward.
“Moffat was so incensed that he pinched such a plumb line that he never spoke to him again”
Then there are Dawes’ accusations against Fawcett for chipping that Millstone Route (Scritto’s was it?)
In retrospect these actions and confrontations add flavour to the history of climbing. It just seems quite vulgar when it’s happening live online, rather than through word of mouth or magazines after the fact.
Barrows nicked a first ascent from me twice. He still doesn’t know what I did in retaliation...
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thanks andy, fomo mitigated
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Someone should try and put online "No Big Cigar," the Crags article about the race for the first free ascent of Castellan. Literally espionage and car chases.
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from Caff on Instagram: I've reread our comms Steve and I have been a twat. You were just being pushy and I thought I would have more time between work. I had put some fucking time and energy into that fucking route though
Maybe that puts the matter to bed.
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Thanks ferret.
Caff contacted me. He is genuinely very upset but wants to put a line under this episode now to move on - but will no doubt be sore about for some time to come.
Please bear the above in mind and be sensitive re further posts. Thank you.
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I want to know how’s woodFT got his revenge on Barrows....
Did he not notice the taste? :)
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Pissed on his kneepad. Barrows thought it actually improved the smell.
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I've just realised that by posting this, I have probably joined the ranks of the Cyberwankers, dammit.
Etiam Cybermasturbans, Semper Cybermasturbans
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Fair play to Caff, can imagine its gutting to have been so close but be pipped to the post even if he hadn’t been clear/pushy enough himself. But gracious of him nonetheless.
Hope he returns to do the 2nd ascent!
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In retrospect these actions and confrontations add flavour to the history of climbing. It just seems quite vulgar when it’s happening live online, rather than through word of mouth or magazines after the fact.
Exactly, this is the sort of “controversy” “characters” “passion” “irreverence” etc. that are supposed to only have existed in the good old days. ::)
Ironic that it’s kicked off on Instagram given that’s routinely cited as the reason for this sort of thing’s supposed death- climbing must be one of very few aspects of modern life that are considered to have been made less acrimonious by social media.
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Fair play to Caff, can imagine its gutting to have been so close but be pipped to the post even if he hadn’t been clear/pushy enough himself. But gracious of him nonetheless.
Tough being a shortarse. SteMac just lanked it.
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Etiam Cybermasturbans, Semper Cybermasturbans
Sorry beast, it's semel/semper.
:geek:
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Bow to your better knowledge. I did 2 lessons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8
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:lol:
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As Stubbs pointed out.
http://www.jamesmchaffie.com/caffs-blog/the-ambassador-e8-7a
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haha
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Haha so clearly a case of the pot calling the kettle black here.
Hope he returns to do the 2nd ascent!
This is it though; if he wants to do it (which he clearly does) he should go and get it done!!!
Easy to say when sat on the sidelines but at the end of the day it's a bit of rock against which you personally challenge yourself, not something anyone can claim any sort of ownership over or an activity within which you can ever reasonably compare yourself to others. It really doesn't matter if you're first, second or hundredth; if it's a challenge you enjoy then just get on it and stop worrying about everything else.
Disclaimer: I do not always practice what I preach here, and definitely haven't done so in the past! Trying to though...
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With that Ambassador thing, it does seem like Callum had given up or at least stopped trying it. Which, again, makes it quite a different situation.
Obviously nobody can stop anybody from trying anything but there can still be an honour code which is loosely followed out of respect for the efforts of others.
It sounds a bit like Caff, for all his lack of self-promotion, can't help but chat to his mates about his various projects. If word hadn't got out that he was trying that Milestone Buttress arete thing then Callum most likely wouldn't have regained interest in it. And Callum could hardly have expected such an obvious project to sit in plain sight attracting no interest for long.
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Obviously nobody can stop anybody from trying anything but there can still be an honour code which is loosely followed out of respect for the efforts of others.
If you've put the time in to clean and find and work out sequences (and maybe bolt) a project then fair enough. If it's a fairly obvious gap on a well known crag that several others have tried... I suspect Nick told everyone he saw at the crag about this line (I'm one of them) and was happy to give the beta for sequences and gear. I don't really see anything in this "honour" other than preserving someone else's ego.
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With that Ambassador thing, it does seem like Callum had given up or at least stopped trying it. Which, again, makes it quite a different situation.
Obviously nobody can stop anybody from trying anything but there can still be an honour code which is loosely followed out of respect for the efforts of others.
It sounds a bit like Caff, for all his lack of self-promotion, can't help but chat to his mates about his various projects. If word hadn't got out that he was trying that Milestone Buttress arete thing then Callum most likely wouldn't have regained interest in it. And Callum could hardly have expected such an obvious project to sit in plain sight attracting no interest for long.
I think the key point is
Just before setting off for a lead go I received a txt off Calum saying it would be nice if I gave him a week to attempt it before trying it.
Which seems similar, intentionally or otherwise.
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Thanks Caff for the route-name inspiration you plonker :lol:
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,30085.msg585411/topicseen.html#new
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Video now online:
https://www.facebook.com/SteveMcClureClimber/videos/2554079601282472/?v=2554079601282472
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From Caffbook:
"And I'm not into project ownership. But when you take a bad fall off the very top of a project and ask someone who hasn't been on it to let you polish it off and get ignored I see it as fairly shitty. And I see no difference between sport and trad projects when you've invested more money and evergy into doing a route than most sport projects, it certainly didn't appear anyone was trying it until I'd opened up the crux sequence, put wood hardener on the holds and got close on my 3rd visit before winter set in in 2017. Chodes"
Which seems to be different to:
From earlier in this thread:
It was an open project as Nick Dixon was encouraging Caff and Steve to get on it. Even so Steve got in touch with Caff to clear things and Caff texted something to the effect of that if he hadn't sent it by the end of the week (last week) then it was fair game as he was sick of trying it in crap conditions.
From Nick Dixon in Keith's article:
Caff started work on the project about 18 months ago and I could see he was way stronger than me on it. I have taken pleasure in this and whilst continuing to try it myself I have tried to support Caff in his ascent too. Caff and I had quite different sequences on it and he came really really close to a send about three weeks ago taking a massive lob. I spoke to Steve about the project about a year ago and I think Caff had spoken to him about it more recently encouraging him to have a go.
Was anyone else seriously trying for a lead before Caff?? (Sounds like Nick at least wasn't)
Was Steve trying it on lead before Caff's big attempt??
Was Caff's request to leave it for a week as exact and specific as that??
It isn't clear and without knowing the truth, it's hard to know what to feel, a pity as they're two extremely respect-worthy climbers.
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I still think there's a lot to be said for not posting videos of your project on social media. They create a buzz around it and bring it to the front of people's minds. And if the sequences are there, laid out for all to see, and it's clearly a safe fall, then you're just asking for Britain's pre-eminent sport climber to come along and nick it.
What was it that old timer said? "We didn't want to do these routes, we just wanted to nick 'em off other people".
Sorry, I'll stop being a cyber wanker now.
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Sorry, I'll stop being a cyber wanker now.
I doubt it
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Sorry, I'll stop being a cyber wanker for now.
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I still think there's a lot to be said for not posting videos of your project on social media.
Or on the Daily Mail website!
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Dark side of media spraying.
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I still think there's a lot to be said for not posting videos of your project on social media.
Isn't that what professionals are asked to do for a living?