UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: SA Chris on October 17, 2013, 02:07:14 pm
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Any tips on how to get more (without resorting to drugs?)
Ever since putting up with 2 babies awake at all hours in the last couple of years my sleep patterns have been fucked (well they weren't great before!)
I usually go to bed about 11 and am awake by just after 5, and that's me for the night on a good night. If I got to bed earlier, I'm usually awake earlier and toss and turn, and if I'm lucky get an another half hour or so, annoyingly usually drifting off just as the human alarm clocks go off about 6:30.
I do all the stuff I'm supposed to; no telly an hour before going to sleep (although this is sometimes only 30-45 mins), no telly in room, room coool and dark, warm shower before bed, but cool down before getting into bed, then read until I doze off. I don't have anythign to drink before bed, or else I need to get up for a piss. I eat reasonably well, and get as much fresh air and exercise as I can (but nothing in 2 hours before bed), but anything longer than a 6 hour stretch seems to elude me. As soion as I'm awake my brain starts and won't shut down.
Advice? Or you reckon that's jjsut the way it is for me as I approach middle age? I'm usually OK with it, but sometimes just nod off early afternoon (or annoyingly on the bus home the other night, resulting in a long walk).
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If, as you say, when you first wake up then your brain starts working and you can't get back asleep, I think it's probably something mentally stressful rather than something physical that you can control with better lifestyle or habits.
What do you think?
Just an idea, but I know many like this.
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Any tips on how to get more (without resorting to drugs?)
Ever since putting up with 2 babies awake at all hours in the last couple of years my sleep patterns have been fucked (well they weren't great before!)
I usually go to bed about 11 and am awake by just after 5, and that's me for the night on a good night. If I got to bed earlier, I'm usually awake earlier and toss and turn, and if I'm lucky get an another half hour or so, annoyingly usually drifting off just as the human alarm clocks go off about 6:30.
I do all the stuff I'm supposed to; no telly an hour before going to sleep (although this is sometimes only 30-45 mins), no telly in room, room coool and dark, warm shower before bed, but cool down before getting into bed, then read until I doze off. I don't have anythign to drink before bed, or else I need to get up for a piss. I eat reasonably well, and get as much fresh air and exercise as I can (but nothing in 2 hours before bed), but anything longer than a 6 hour stretch seems to elude me. As soion as I'm awake my brain starts and won't shut down.
Advice? Or you reckon that's jjsut the way it is for me as I approach middle age? I'm usually OK with it, but sometimes just nod off early afternoon (or annoyingly on the bus home the other night, resulting in a long walk).
You might find it's worth focussing even more on more natural light cycles. I actually use my laptop in bed all the time, but I have f.lux which adjusts the tone of the screen throughout the day, and I have a screen dimmer to drastically dim it at night.
Anyway, my point was, decreasing lighting for half an hour before bed can be helpful, as can using a light-alarm clock. You can buy all in one gadgets to do all this though they're not cheap if you want a decent one.
I also find bedtime sci-fi/fantasy reading helps me switch off, and do it in the dark with inverted colours on a tablet (dimmed white writing on a black background).
But I'm basically agreed with the above person. It seems like you're doing a lot of the right physical stuff, so perhaps you need to approach it more as a mental ailment. Meditation, stilling exercises etc have helped me with this (else I would have had a breakdown during my PGCE I think). These days the escapism of reading is normally enough - though I frequently dream of work and some meditation might well help.
If meditation is tough for you, perhaps start off by doing some yoga and focussing on precision, breathing and a stilling at the end of it.
I'm aware you may have tried all of this already
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Chris, that sounds incredibly similar to my sleep pattern - I'm pretty happy if its 5am when I wake. If I'm right about that, then the problem is not getting to sleep but staying asleep late enough in the morning, so doing everything right in the evening isn't the issue. Mine has undoubtedly got worse with middle age - as its meant to - but I've always been an early riser, even as a teenager. It also got much worse during an especially traumatic period in my life - it settled back down from that but probably never quite returned to 'normal'.
But most importantly, I've also come to realize that actually I'm fine on the sleep I get. And that means I stress about it much less.
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Also, regarding drugs, you could always start off with a baseline of chamomile tea and then try some valerian / herbal nytol / nytol / scrip meds to kick-start you into a better cycle. But the further you go along that list, the more addictive it becomes.
I've had scrip meds for sleep before now, to deal with SSRI withdrawal. Considering the extenuating circumstances, I can't really comment on their negative effects but I was told that if you get hooked the withdrawal is similar to heroin.
They should prob ban chamomile infusions as a gateway drug. :coffee:
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I think it's probably something mentally stressful rather than something physical that you can control with better lifestyle or habits.
I admit sometimes it's work related stress that keeps me awake, but often it's not mental stress, just my brain going "hey I'm rested and up for whatever, how about this??" and I start thinking about good things; how to get a photo of a certain landscape in a certain way, how to do a boulder problem in a new way, what to do with part of the garden, a fun thing to do with the kids etc etc. And it won't shut down.
I expect Andy is right, and I've got the sleep I need, and should just start my day earlier. Trouble is I don't think I get enough sleep, and often towards the end of the day get lethargic, and struggle to make decisions, stay awake in meetings etc. Trouble is that afternoon powernaps are frowned upon here! Plus I wouldn't be popular if I got up and woke up my dearest or the kids knocking about the house in the early hours.
I make a point of using anything electronic before bed; laptop, tablet, phone or kindle, as I personally think any lit screen can affect sleep patterns, and tend to stick to printed stuff.
I've tried assorted hot drinks; camomille, horlicks etc before bed, but I still wake the same time or earlier needing to piss. Herbal remedies seem to have little effect, and as I said I'm loathe to try anything stronger. As far as caffeine goes, i have a strong coffee about 9 am, and a cup of tea about 3pm, but nothing else.
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Chris, that sounds incredibly similar to my sleep pattern - I'm pretty happy if its 5am when I wake. If I'm right about that, then the problem is not getting to sleep but staying asleep late enough in the morning, so doing everything right in the evening isn't the issue. Mine has undoubtedly got worse with middle age - as its meant to - but I've always been an early riser, even as a teenager. It also got much worse during an especially traumatic period in my life - it settled back down from that but probably never quite returned to 'normal'.
But most importantly, I've also come to realize that actually I'm fine on the sleep I get. And that means I stress about it much less.
+1 (ish)
I rarely get more than 6 or 7 hours sleep, and I think I have "slept through" once or twice a year...
Having said that, no booze seems to help, and I play a patience game on my phone often before going to bed - it lulls my brain into repetitive boredom :)
MrsTT on the other hand will carry on doing her walrus imitations next to me for 12 hours on a stretch if not woken (lucky cow). I used to think there was something wrong with me - now I just get up and do something useful/interesting if I wake up early...
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I had to cut out bed reading altogether. There are only two things I do in my bed. Sleep and >>>. I found that when I would read in bed, I had a difficult time with sleep. When I read in bed, my brain seems to get wired to function in bed, and I would wake up out of dreams at random points throughout the night. Since I quit reading in bed, I don't seem to have that same issue. I also meditate for about 5 minutes when I get in bad, generally trying to consciously grasp and let go of my mental to do list, including work, family, and personal to-dos. I find it both relaxes me as i have a handle on what needs to be done, so there's no nagging feeling of something to do, and also helps me start the next day in the right state of mind.
That said, some people function exceptionally well off short sleep. Can you powernap at lunch?
The main factors were - I think - a general absence of anything to worry about (the stressmaker-in-chief - my wife - was the other side of a large ocean for two months) plus climbing most days, so usually pretty tired.
That sounds remarkable familiar.....
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Wives and children are really not coming out well on this thread
*note to self*
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Wives and children are really not coming out well on this thread
*note to self*
Too true.... Still wouldn't trade em though :)
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I do circuits at Almscliff in my mind - that helps me doze off!
I start at the warm up slab, then three swings, up flying arete. Then wander up to Underhand, faff the first few moves, then get it third go... then wander up to DWR area and zzzzz........
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Advice? Or you reckon that's jjsut the way it is for me as I approach middle age? I'm usually OK with it, but sometimes just nod off early afternoon (or annoyingly on the bus home the other night, resulting in a long walk).
But most importantly, I've also come to realize that actually I'm fine on the sleep I get. And that means I stress about it much less.
I second what Andy says Chris........ It's unlikely your sleep pattern will ever return to something that you can regard as normal , so it's best to just go with what you've got .........
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There is a recent fad for theories saying that we should sleep for a while, get up for a bit, in the tiny hours and then sleep for a while again.
You could try that. Go watch pr0n quietly while the missus is sleeping?
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I've played with a couple of apps on my phone "Sleepbot" and "sleep as android" - there are of course, iOS equivalents.
You turn em on as you go to bed, and leave your phone just next to your pillow. They use the motion sensors and microphone to record your sleep patterns and then give a load of diagnostic blurb (graphs and stuff).
I used them for a few nights and it was interesting. The sound recording bit was mainly just shuffling though Mrs T was not impressed with me moaning 'Mina, Mina' at 3 am.
Seriously though, it gives a reasonably good picture of whats going on. Showed that nights after a bit of red wine were more disturbed than not etc. Piss stops were usually around the same time each night etc.
Definitely worth a few nights to get a picture of whats going on with your sleep patterns.
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:kiss2:
There is a recent fad for theories saying that we should sleep for a while, get up for a bit, in the tiny hours and then sleep for a while again.
You could try that. Go watch pr0n quietly while the missus is sleeping?
I fall asleep quite quickly and usually get woken up by the alarm or kids in the morning, but will often be awake around 1 or 2 for an hour or so and now don't let this worry me. I survive quite well on much less sleep than my wife (we're all different). My only problem is that I'll often eat cack food when I wake up, this doesn't affect me going back to sleep but it does make me fatter
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I had an enlightenment this year - I've had the last 9 years of disturbed sleep due to kids etc. but was finding that even during the night I was waking repetitively every couple of hours. I'd also been suffering with chronic sinusitis for ages too, constantly bunged up and partially deaf most of the time which sometimes meant I breathed through the mouth during the night and can't have been helping - but it didn't change sleep on clear nights. It was also really ruining my days, constantly blowing my nose, clearing my ears and getting jaw ache as a result, unable to taste food etc. I'd eventually decided it was due to my ears rather than sinuses themselves so was looking for solutions to eustachian tube dysfunction... but always rejected the earplug idea as I was afraid of sleeping through noise I 'needed' to hear like kids, alarm etc
However, the c*nt next door (for many many reasons he is one of those) got a chiming clock, attached to the party wall, so the half hourly chimes were resonating through the whole house - so after a couple of nights I reached for the plugs.
Not only did I fall asleep immediately and stay asleep, I never had a problem waking up, heard the kids when they did wake up and felt a whole lot better almost immediately. Got the noise abated with help from the council, but have continued to use earlpugs and really sleep well now.
The really good thing was that after 2 nights, the sinusitis had almost gone. It still comes back to a small extent occasionally, but I can tell my ears have been opened, and it's massively improved. Life changing.
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SA Chris.. SorRy if I'm wrong... But have you posted on the yoga thread??
Get up early if u wake, do some basic breathing centring, and some static poses... The chaos of the house erupts soon after, and u all have your day..
For me.. That ( selfish) personal time means less bad tempered, more balanced and productive days....
Result, with chamomile tea, = easier to sleep at night. Really works....
AND
U are not stressed thinkng about sleep when going to bed...
Because you have your daily yoga / meditation to look forward to in the morning.
As an aside, i need way less sleep than I did in my 30s..
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24444634 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24444634)
That's pure infotainment but there's shitloads of research out there on sleep, yet it's still rather hard to find any decent advice. You're all saying you need less sleep. I'm sleeping fairly similar amounts to you - unlike the other half who'd happily sleep til mid-day - yet all the SCIENCE I hear seems to say get more sleep or else.
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These days I rarely get an unbroken nights sleep even though I have little to cause a distubance in the night other than the occasional cat jumping on the bed. I go to bed about 10 most nights and get up at 5.30 without needing an alarm clock to wake me up.
I have to get up for a piss at least once in the night and often wake up around half three for 10 mins, although on waking I feel I need more sleep if I don't need to get up I rarely go back to sleep.
I belive the idea of waking up refreshed after a good nights sleep is an urban myth and as you get older its about as likely to happen as finding the Holy grail at the bottom of the garden.
Having said all this my other half sleeps as TomTom decribes his missus doing.
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...though Mrs T was not impressed with me moaning 'Mina, Mina' at 3 am.
Who's Mina then? :lol:
Another vote for Underground's suggestion of earplugs - I started wearing eyeshade+plugs when I was working nights and have carried on the habit even though I'm back to a day job. I now find that if I leave them out my sleep is far more disturbed, even by little things like Ms Bubbs getting up for a piss or loud applause on an otherwise quiet TV downstairs.
I think the amount of sleep required can be quite crucual day to day and it's important to find your sweet spot rather than try to stick to a prescribed amount. If I have <6 then I'm knackered by the next evening. 6 to 6.5 and I'm ok though not perfect but if I get 7 in then I feel just fine.
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Some good advice here. To complicate matters though, I've got moderate tinnitus (which probably doesn't help in the first place!) and earplugs make it a lot worse.
The yoga in the morning is good, even better would be a morning bouldering session (indoors once the woody is done, or getting some crisp early morning sun at the closest bouldering, 10 mins walk away) trouble is running the risk of waking the rest of the family in doing so.
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I forgot to mention tinnitus Chris, I have it too and it was also one of the reasons I rejected plugs for years, but I find now that I still fall asleep and stay asleep much better. Worth a try, I've got some great ones if you want a set posting up?
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What type do you use? I've tried the disposable foam ones (too uncomfortable) and got some Doc's Proplugs I bought for surfing but never used for sleeping.
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Are your kids that noise sensitive that they'll wakeup at 05:30 if you get up? I thought kids hated getting up?
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I got one of those foam mattresses recently. It's well comfy and feels like I'm floating, I don't move around in the night anymore and sleep much better. I had my fucked back operated on which got rid of the sciatic pain around the same time as I got the mattress so it's also gonna be that...
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Earplugs. I used them for a couple of years and ended up with repeatedly blocked ears. For me they tend to just ram the wax down the ear and eventually it hardens and blocks... This has caused me all sorts of grief over a couple of years - and now the ol lug holes have come to some sort of normal balance again... Different folks have different ears/rates of wax production etc... blah blah..
As an Australian colleague once said to me (you need the accent) his doctor told him: Greg, the smallest thing you should put in your ear is your elbow....
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Are your kids that noise sensitive that they'll wakeup at 05:30 if you get up? I thought kids hated getting up?
Early hours are when they sleep lightest. ATM We get between 6:30 & 7 if we are lucky, but they would wake up earlier if there's any noise. Don't confuse little kids with teenagers or school kids!
We've got a memory foam mattress already, bliss.
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If you've ever found you sleep better when it's raining you may have realized a good option for dealing with noise, is more of it -- specifically white noise.
rainymood.com is one source or when the weather is warmer you can try a fan.
works whether the noise is from an external source, or from a brain that won't shut up :chair:
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:jaw:
What type do you use? I've tried the disposable foam ones (too uncomfortable) and got some Doc's Proplugs I bought for surfing but never used for sleeping.
they are a very soft mouldable foam one called Moldex 7800 'Spark plugs'. They are loads better than the big yellow ones and really comfortable, create a good seal and don't hurt my ears or protrude and get knocked out by the pillow
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If you've ever found you sleep better when it's raining you may have realized a good option for dealing with noise, is more of it -- specifically white noise.
rainymood.com is one source or when the weather is warmer you can try a fan.
works whether the noise is from an external source, or from a brain that won't shut up :chair:
I now love this website.
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The old gits next door (sorry they annoy me) listen to their TV loud until c.11 pm, if I want to go to bed I can hear it droning away even upstairs.. so I have a fan/air purifier that generates enough white noise/dull noise that blanks it out..
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Good article here on stimulus control therapy for insomnia, hard work but along with good sleep hygiene this is a great option to improve your sleep:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/200905/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-insomnia-part-2-stimulus-control (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/200905/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-insomnia-part-2-stimulus-control)
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To be fair, CBT is probably good for insomnia. Last time I read a book on it I was out like a light ;)
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:jaw:What type do you use? I've tried the disposable foam ones (too uncomfortable) and got some Doc's Proplugs I bought for surfing but never used for sleeping.
they are a very soft mouldable foam one called Moldex 7800 'Spark plugs'. They are loads better than the big yellow ones and really comfortable, create a good seal and don't hurt my ears or protrude and get knocked out by the pillow
the dropping jaw is there because it takes a while to load on the phone and gets pressed as I start typing... not intentional...
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Good article here on stimulus control therapy for insomnia, hard work but along with good sleep hygiene this is a great option to improve your sleep:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/200905/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-insomnia-part-2-stimulus-control (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/200905/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-insomnia-part-2-stimulus-control)
Six hours sleep a night is certainly not insomnia, it's easily within the parameters of what most people would regard as perfectly normal ......... And waking up an hour before your kids is something to revel in, you can finally finish reading yesterday's newspaper without fear of interruption, you can fantasise about finally getting fit enough to climb that problem that you've been wanting to tick for years, you can work out how to make reindeers out of dyson vacuum cleaners, the list is endless ........ What I'm saying is embrace this time and stop worrying about how it's come about, you'll get used it after a while ......... And all the mattresses and earplugs and soothing background noises are not going to make any difference, except to your bank balance which will give you one more thing to worry about and thus keep you awake even more .......... And as CBT only helps you to fall asleep, something you don't seem to have a problem with, then that not's going to do much good either ...... You could of course try smoking a big fat bifter stuffed to the gunnels with White Widow ( the insomniacs skunk of choice) because, trust me, that is the only way you're going to get more than six hours kip a night ......
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:agree:
To an extent... And yes, as u get older it's common to sleep less every night, and have a nap once in while during the day.. Some of best sporting / working achievements have been after a nap.. Including between runs down a mountain on a bike and bouldering in recent years.
I fully subscribe to the getting up and doing something with the time as above.. For me it's yoga.. For u it could reading, fettling in the shed.. Whatever.. But welcome each morning.. Whatever the time it is when u rise.
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The old gits next door (sorry they annoy me) listen to their TV loud until c.11 pm, if I want to go to bed I can hear it droning away even upstairs.. so I have a fan/air purifier that generates enough white noise/dull noise that blanks it out..
+1 on white noise. I know it's a waste of power, but I sometimes have a fan on just blowing at the wall next to the bed and the drone gets me to sleep really effectively. On the plus side it was a sleep timer so I can set it to run for an hour and then turn itself off.
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Master the art of the silent wank over the side of the bed?
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Master the art of the silent wank over the side of the bed?
:lol: master the one inch punch!
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Laser lite ear plugs are awesome, yellow and purple ones, and olive oil in the ears occasionally seems to help stop wax issues, as wax can more easily self clean out of your ear, with your elbow..... (yes i've had to have ears syringed, fun).
Also what sam said about old style human sleep patterns, go to bed early, if you wake up get up and do something, then back for a second stint. Helps me to have a notepad to scribble stuff down for work etc, so you can then forget it and zzzzzzzzzzz.
good luck
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I can still hear the alarm ok, it just cuts out distractions from elsewhere in the house.
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The old gits next door (sorry they annoy me) listen to their TV loud until c.11 pm, if I want to go to bed I can hear it droning away even upstairs.. so I have a fan/air purifier that generates enough white noise/dull noise that blanks it out..
+1 on white noise. I know it's a waste of power, but I sometimes have a fan on just blowing at the wall next to the bed and the drone gets me to sleep really effectively. On the plus side it was a sleep timer so I can set it to run for an hour and then turn itself off.
I love the sound of extractor fans, find myself serenely drifting off, only to be suddenly awoken once it goes off after its time on!
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White noise - great for parents of fretful newborns - maybe harking back to your infanthood andy.
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I used to have terrible problems sleeping, particularly drifting off - I would lie awake for ages thinking about stuff or worrying or getting stressed about the noise the neighbours were making and how it was going to keep me awake.
What made a huge difference for me was doing more yoga in general but also doing yoga style relaxation / self hypnosis / meditation when I went to bed, it seems to get me through that overthinking stage that I struggled with previously. I also always sleep with ear plugs in now too which makes a massive difference, I've never got on with any of the foam or silicone ones but I love the wax ones and the difference they make is amazing.
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Christ isnt modern living utter shite.... trying to smother out the noise and disturbance from all around us..
Depressing :(
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(http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo275/xxwiseman/gethighoq2.gif)
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Ear plugs are the shizzle. I use 'em every night and have no problems hearing my alarm. Having grown up in the middle of nowhere I've got freaking bat ears when it comes to noise.
These are the daddies, as previously suggested
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pairs-Howard-Leight-Laser-Plugs/dp/B0007XJOLG/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1383325335&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pairs-Howard-Leight-Laser-Plugs/dp/B0007XJOLG/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1383325335&sr=1-1) or you could go with the max ones if you've got big ear canals! Make sure you lube 'em up with vaz and you're good to go!
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Yep, never have a problem hearing the alarm, unless I was up amazingly late / very pissed up before I went to bed. I also have 2 cats and 2 nippers who ensure it's never a problem anyway.
PS. Those Moldex plugs I use, I got 40 pair for 3 nicker from ebay...
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To resurrect and old thread, sleeping a bit better than I was, but I've noticed I sleep badly after strenuous exercise, specifically fairly intense bouldering sessions down the wall. I'm normally there 7- 9 / 9:30 or so, home by 10, then unwind a bit before bed at 11, asleep until 4, then struggle for the rest of the night. Does anyone else get this? I would have thought that it would be the opposite.
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It's normal to be wired after strength excercise in the late evening or early night.
When I train late I can't sleep early.
It's due to increased level of hormones and general activation of the CNS.
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I often have bad nights after a tough bouldering session - ESPECIALLY when its an evening session. When I wake up it often feels like dehydration (ie a hangover) however hard I try to re-hydrate after. Not so bad if I climb in the morning..
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I find that doing a set of stretches before bed helps me sleep after a hard session. Supposedly it helps relaxs the muscles and let get to a comfortable sleeping position faster.
Also helps on those flexy boulder problems
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Foam roller helped me sleep when I was climbing/training lots..
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A bit of the old :shag: should see you right.
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A bit of the old :shag: should see you right.
Or
:boxing: :clown:
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Not just me then!
Supposedly it helps relaxs the muscles and let get to a comfortable sleeping position faster.
Should try that good call.
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A bit of the old :shag: should see you right.
To paraphrase, I'm usually too fucked to fuck even.
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With a toddler and having never been a great sleeper I feel your pain. Dodgy sinuses too. My only chance to get to a wall is 9.00 at night or Sunday when it opens. I don't sleep well at all after an evening session but that is unfortunately tough. I try to do the following each night in an attempt to get 6 hours minimum solid kip...
Light warm up skip etc 10 min
Yoga Ashtanga 20 min
Trigger point roller and ball (get at the bad knots) 10 min
Static stretches 10 min
Sinus rinse saline from spout pot 5 min
Counted breath concentration meditation 5 min
Cammomile tea and a slug of valerian in water in bed with book
With said little person, a 12 hour work day, poorly father and a house renovation its either that hour or a bottle of Scotch and 10 Marlboro...
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Was just searching the archives to see if anything had been posted about sleep quality following intense training.
I’ve always had a similar issue to those described above, feeling wired etc post hard bouldering. Wednesday night had a good board session for about an hour, stopped feeing strong but certainly intense. Stayed up a bit later than planned, about 2300 and then up around 0615. Actually found going to sleep fine but then felt like I was hungover when I woke up despite plenty of fluid intake. To be honest a double espresso and a shower sorted it out mostly, but wonder if anyone else has other solutions?
I think I shall try some of the relaxation techniques described above and see about more hours of sleep if possible. Have others found that volume of sleep effects perceived recovery much?
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I get a similar problem sometimes, feeling dehydrated. I am also currently taking drugs that seem to massively dehydrate me which may exacerbate the problem. I'm going to try and consciously drink more during sessions and see if it makes any difference.
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Was just searching the archives to see if anything had been posted about sleep quality following intense training.
I’ve always had a similar issue to those described above, feeling wired etc post hard bouldering. Wednesday night had a good board session for about an hour, stopped feeing strong but certainly intense. Stayed up a bit later than planned, about 2300 and then up around 0615.
Did you eat anything after session?
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I went to pub after session.
One pint water, one Heineken 0.0%, some chicken breast with mash and a sort of creamy tarragon sauce. Also probably too much white bait, the batter of which made me feel a bit weird and probs could have done without.... Camomile tea before bed!
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Yep, all sounds a bit much late at night!
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Ha, didn’t really think about it but yeah perhaps less food with a similar training volume and an extra hours sleep, with some relaxation stuff before could be ideal.
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Bit of a tangent but food/sleep related.
We’ve just moved to eating before putting out toddler to bed (stuffing our faces at 6:30-7) instead of after he had gone to sleep. 8:30-9:30 (quote often after 9) and both of us are sleeping better. Shovelling food in when starving then collapsing in bed an hour later didn’t seem to work well for us...
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Same here. Although I have to be quite disciplined to not stuff my face again at 9.
My problem at the moment is, getting to sleep by 10,then being woken up at about 4.30 by little one wanting to feed, and I then just can't get back to sleep. It's like I've had just enough sleep that I can't nod off easily, but not enough to feel rested the next day.
Any advice from the collective?
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Master the art of the silent wank over the side of the bed?
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Same here. Although I have to be quite disciplined to not stuff my face again at 9.
My problem at the moment is, getting to sleep by 10,then being woken up at about 4.30 by little one wanting to feed, and I then just can't get back to sleep. It's like I've had just enough sleep that I can't nod off easily, but not enough to feel rested the next day.
Any advice from the collective?
This is exactly what happened to my better half after child #1 (made worse by fact I can drop off no problem), and she's had over 5 years of crap sleep as a result.
For me, I use pretty standard relaxation techniques - focus on breathing, count back from 100 (in your head of course!)...I've heard counting back from 100, but subtracting 3 each time is a good one on the basis that your brain needs to be engaged enough not to fret about not sleeping, but not so engaged that you wake up.
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I've heard counting back from 100, but subtracting 3 each time is a good one on the basis that your brain needs to be engaged enough not to fret about not sleeping, but not so engaged that you wake up.
I do this (in French, regardez moi) and for each number ice the number onto a cupcake. Around a 95% success rate, even if waking in the middle of the night.
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Screw sleep, that just sounds like an excuse to eat 100 cupcakes every night :P
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Yeah, do you bake the cupcakes each night in preparation? :)
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Master the art of the silent wank over the side of the bed?
I...ice the number onto a cupcake. Around a 95% success rate, even if waking in the middle of the night.
Are these posts related?
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Screw sleep, that just sounds like an excuse to eat 100 cupcakes every night :P
Only 33 I'm afraid
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I would reply with some advice but no one can put it better than matthew walker - he wrote a book called 'Why We Sleep' which I think you'd find informative, scary and hopefully helpful.
Bon chance.
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10-20mg of Diazepam and a small glass of wine 2 hours before you plan to go to sleep. For someone who has struggled with depression and OCD-related mental health problems linking to disturbed sleep for years, this has helped my climbing and weightlifting recovery to no end, let alone day to day performance. I've never had so many productive sessions at the gym over the past 2 months, even if diet is not quite on point. Amo dormire :yawn:
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Benzodiazepines for chronic insomnia is definitely a bad idea for most people for sure.
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Benzodiazepines for chronic insomnia is definitely a bad idea for most people for sure.
I agree, but for acute periods where low mental stability (anxiety) is a precursor I wouldn't *not* recommend them. Ofc they are not a long term solution and benzo withdrawal is a killer, but so are weeks of disturbed sleep
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Yeah. I think anyone using them short term needs to be well aware of what they are getting into. For anxiety, as you say, they are a very bad idea and are likely to make matters a lot worse. For chronic insomnia the issue is the ongoing game plan, so what will stop developing an addiction? 20mg of diazepam is a pretty big dose for most benzo naive people, but that just reflects who easy it is to become tolerant.
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Now, call me a square, but I'd probably consult a GP before taking diazepam rather than a bouldering message board.
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Agreed, hopefully that goes without saying! GPs are probably prescribing them less now given the massive problems over prescription has led to.
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I have reasonable success with the “imaginary world” technique.
For me, I prefer to begin by imagining a stream. Detail is important. The way the water tumbles over the pebbles, the glint of sunlight on the surface, the sound as it flows, the fish, marking time in the current, the colours of the pebbles, the shadow of the reeds hanging over the bank.
Grow it.
The Dragonflies, buzzing across the surface and alighting on the Willows, that weep down to kiss the glittering surface. The tufted heads of the long grass, swaying in the breeze. The Cornflowers, poking through, to brighten the meadow. The butterflies, flitting from bloom to bloom, vying with the softly murmuring Bees to sup the nectar.
The shadow of a cloud, drifting over grass and water. The sudden breath of warm wind, that shakes the trees, in the forest beyond the meadow and sends a Lark, singing into the hazy afternoon sky....
And so on.
Usually, by the time I’m looking down from the Aerie of the Golden Eagle, high on the mountain above the forest, that fades to the meadow, that brushes the stream; my alarm is jarring me awake.
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The single best technique I've found for a good nights sleep is transcendental meditation. You don't do it just before sleep but that the regular practice just improves your sleep. It has a significant effects on stress levels which can be a large contributory factor to insomnia, lots of research has been done.
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I've heard counting back from 100, but subtracting 3 each time is a good one on the basis that your brain needs to be engaged enough not to fret about not sleeping, but not so engaged that you wake up.
Listening to "In Our Time" in podcast form hits this spot for me. Reliably interesting enough that my brain doesn't start running in circles about other stuff, but in a very calm soothing BBC way that is entirely devoid of tension. At some point I notice I've started drifting off, wake up just enough to press "stop" and remove my earbuds, then go back to sleep.
Then as a bonus I know a lot more about Icelandic sagas or the Bronze Age Collapse or the Year Without A Summer.
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I have reasonable success with the “imaginary world” technique.
For me, I prefer to begin by imagining a stream. Detail is important. The way the water tumbles over the pebbles, the glint of sunlight on the surface, the sound as it flows, the fish, marking time in the current, the colours of the pebbles, the shadow of the reeds hanging over the bank.
Grow it.
The Dragonflies, buzzing across the surface and alighting on the Willows, that weep down to kiss the glittering surface. The tufted heads of the long grass, swaying in the breeze. The Cornflowers, poking through, to brighten the meadow. The butterflies, flitting from bloom to bloom, vying with the softly murmuring Bees to sup the nectar.
The shadow of a cloud, drifting over grass and water. The sudden breath of warm wind, that shakes the trees, in the forest beyond the meadow and sends a Lark, singing into the hazy afternoon sky....
And so on.
Usually, by the time I’m looking down from the Aerie of the Golden Eagle, high on the mountain above the forest, that fades to the meadow, that brushes the stream; my alarm is jarring me awake.
That sounds awesome! Much better than imagining the moves on whatever project I'm trying which is what my brain goes to. I'm not sure if that is helpful or the opposite.
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Having s small child has not improved the amount or quality of sleep I have. But it has made getting to sleep really easy.
Other ‘tricks’ I use which help my slightly aspergergys brain are playing solitaire in my phone (I know / screen time etc... but I find it calming) where I’m in 5 digits of gams played now...
and a strange kind of 3D visualisation method where I mentally trace where the pipe work for the central heating goes/might go through the house (for example) and in a similar way I’ve also done a virtual circuit of Almscliff.
Like 3T said I think both require some thinking but not too much.
Anyway, I find programming relaxing so I must be weird 😂
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I used to have a real problem with middle of the night insomnia but now sleep soundly throughout the night even when I have to get up to pee in the small hours.
I leave my phone downstairs and have an alarm clock with hands that's batter powered but completely silent.
No electronics in the bedroom at all other than a Kindle - I leave the phone charging downstairs at night.
A peppermint tea most nights before bed.
When in bed I read for a bit and normally drop off naturally.
But when I don't I've developed a technique focusing on the breath - following each in-breath deeply into the abdomen. At the same time, I gently wiggle my fingers and toes which seems to draw my attention to the body and away from the mind, or touch the tip of my thumbs to the tips of my ring fingers. Sometimes (bear with me here!) focussing on my third eye or brow chakra and allowing the dreams or visualisations similar to what Matt describes to coagulate can bring a really restful sleep.
During stressy times, Valerian, St Johns Wort and Lemon Balm really help. There's a product called Melissa Dream that's been really effective not only for sleep but reducing anxiety during the day when life and work is all a bit much.
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Other stuff that helps for me:
f.lux (or equivalent filter) on all electronics
a "Get Off The Fucking Internet" curfew in the evening -- when I'm tired past a certain point, my ability to Get Off The Fucking Internet and go to bed instead of spending hours clicking on things that I know are going to annoy me vanishes, so I try to forestall this
progressive relaxation (of the "working through every body part one by one" body scan type)
a decent eye mask
occasional melatonin if stuff's got really off-track
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...even when I have to get up to pee in the small hours.
Bloody hell - since my youngest turned 2 and is sleeping a bit more reliably now, the above is often my only barrier to a decent night's sleep!
Is this just an age thing? Think I've had to get up for a slash pretty much every night since my mid 30s.
Anyone got any tips beside "go for a massive piss before bedtime" to prevent having to be disturbed in the middle of the night?
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Other stuff that helps for me:
f.lux (or equivalent filter) on all electronics
Is there any evidence that blue light filters are effective? Last time I looked in to it, there didn't seem to be any evidence that screens actually emit sufficient blue light to affect sleep.
There seemed to be plenty of evidence that blue light is bad but I couldn't find anything that quantified how much is needed to negatively affect sleep. I saw some claims that the amount of blue light from screens is just a drop in the ocean. These claims weren't backed up by sources either though.
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...even when I have to get up to pee in the small hours.
Bloody hell - since my youngest turned 2 and is sleeping a bit more reliably now, the above is often my only barrier to a decent night's sleep!
Is this just an age thing? Think I've had to get up for a slash pretty much every night since my mid 30s.
Anyone got any tips beside "go for a massive piss before bedtime" to prevent having to be disturbed in the middle of the night?
Don't drink anything after 8pm. And try a pill of pygeum (500mg)..
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Interestingly, this i very close to the topic of my PhD (in progress).
The top advice I see floating around seem to include having proper black-out curtains, and a very good mattress. A few things I have come across suggest that managing the temperature of the bedroom (keeping it cool) is also quite good for helping regulate your sleep.
Unfortunately, the root cause of bad sleeping patterns can be linked to so many factors such as blood-sugar or stimulant intake, and very commonly, environmental noise.
The sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems have a stress response that occurs when you hear some stimulus that your amygdala does or doesn't recognise as having an emotional reaction i.e. if you hear new, potentially threatening or unpleasant noises, you can cause a stress response which includes a release of adrenalin and other substances that increase your heart rate, body temperature, blood pressure etc. Your auditory system remains active in your sleep, and this is one of the mechanisms designed to keep you alive if something attacks you in your sleep. Unfortunately, your brain is really good at adapting to this kind of stress response, if you keep getting the same stimulus but you aren't forced to act on it to get away from it. This habituation changes the chemistry of your brain so that you might not be as roused or stressed by the noise, but your average heart rate and blood pressure stays high. It can also inhibit memory and cognitive development, and lead to hypertension and heart disease among other things. I haven't read much on recovery from this habituation, so I cannot say how well the brain changes to a more responsive state to the stress stimulus i.e. the noise.
Do you live in a noisy place?
I know this might be an unpopular opinion, but having your own bed might also help (as opposed to sharing with the wife).
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Good thread. I recognise the stress response to noise described in the post above - if I am drifting off to sleep and hear a sharp noise I often feel a little jolt, like an electric shock almost.
One observation is that thinking about climbing, reading climbing guidebooks etc is an absolute no for me if I want to go to sleep. I find it stimulating and it definitely wakes me up.
Regarding getting up needing to urinate, in my household the maxim is 'tea means wee'. After 9pm won't drink any tea as always find it results in needing to get up in the night.
Having said that with a 14 month year old I've slept about 7 nights through in 14 months. Last night I had 4 hours broken sleep. I hope being a terrible sleeper now means he won't continue on that path forever!
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Sadly they will end up sleeping through, but after having kids I never have. I maybe sleep through the night once every two weeks or so now.
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My experience too - on the odd occasion I get a night away with work / a night off monitor duty I struggle to sleep past 6am anyway. I've found I'm better at taking advantage of any chance of a quick 10/15 min nap - so far favourites are on the Park and Ride bus into town, after dropping kids at nursery / preschool in the morning and before I have to log on when working from home, and Saturday mid-afternoon if I'm looking after the kids - stick the TV on and sneak a quick 40 winks.
Incidentally I got some of the Lemon Balm stuff Ben recommended above and personally think it helped in terms of feeling a bit less agitated when I was a bit stressy last weekend.
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Here is a somewhat weird, but also surprisingly common, phenomenon that I get and am curious to see if anyone else experiences. It’s more sleep than dream related, but the dream thread is where this has come up before: https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6086.msg683376.html#msg683376
As I’m falling asleep I get a range of parasomnias with variable frequency depending on what I’ve been doing. For example I very often get a hypnagogic jerk or two as I’m about to drop off, the magnitude of which depends on how much/how intense I’ve been exercising. I’m sure these will be pretty familiar to lots of people, but certainly climbers engaged in intense training. If I’ve been doing a hard board session it can be pretty impressive, enough to wake up my wife. Normal enough.
The other thing I get is sleep paralysis. The first time I remember this happening for sure was 2016/2017. I was working a night shift (common association) and was asleep on a mattress on the floor of an office. I became aware of myself lying on the mattress and then I became aware of the door opening and someone coming in. I was lying on my side and tried to turn around to see who it was. At that point I realised I couldn’t move at all. I felt totally conscious but completely unable to move. I felt the other person as a presence but they said nothing. I did have some insight into sleep disorders and parasomnias, so once I realised I couldn’t move I assumed that this must be sleep paralysis. I assumed the presence I felt was a hallucination which was confirmed once I regained muscular control and fully woke I up to find myself alone. My main concern was if someone genuinely had been trying to get hold of me, how long would it have taken me to be able to answer? Probably not long.
This sort of experience has happened a few times again, often associated with night shifts, either during, if I’m lucky enough to get some sleep, or after. They occur with or without the hallucinations of a presence in the room.
Sleep paralysis isn’t the same as dreams of ‘walking through treacle’ etc, which I sometimes get, and it isn’t the same as lucid dreaming, which I haven’t experienced. It seems to be a phenomenon when a state of REM sleep co-exists with wakefulness. Normally during REM sleep there is an atonic state, the paralysis, but this ends before you wake so you never are aware of this. This atonia helps to avoid acting out dreams. I did used to do this as a child, sleep walking, getting dressed in my sleep, moving things around, talking to people, sometimes about dreams I was having. Never had any recall of this.
Anyhow, along side the hypnogogic jerks, I’ve recently developed a new symptom which I believe is in a similar vein to the sleep paralysis, but occurring on falling asleep, as opposed to waking up and hence manifesting slightly differently. As I’m dropping off to sleep I now regularly have a sensation like I can’t breath or I’m being suffocated or have a constriction around my chest. I wake up, gasp a bit, take a few deep breaths just to prove I can and continued to try and fall asleep. It does a seem to be worsened if my head is too flexed on a pillow, and again the sudden violent gasps for air wake up my wife occasionally and she is very wtf about the whole thing. There is no associated panic or anxiety, which can occur.
As an aside, I don’t think this is obstructive sleep apnoea. It’s not unheard of in my BMI range (21.8 ), however it only happens as I’m falling asleep, not on waking and according to my wife I don’t have episodes through that the night once I fall asleep.
Sleep is one of my perennial issues, usually difficulty falling asleep, and though I’m not worried by these parasomnias per se, I do wonder if they are a feature of otherwise poor sleep or poor sleep habits, and perhaps if I sorted out my sleep they would become less frequent. Obviously some things are within my gift to change, but others aren’t; night shits, kids etc. I do however have a month and a half coming up without any night shifts and I want to try and kick start some healthier sleeping patterns as best as possible.
Things I’ll keep doing - meditation, yoga, camomile tea, quiet white noise.
Things I’ll aim to get better at - strict restriction of screens in bed (was good at this, habit slipped a bit)
Things I’ll aim to add I’m not good at - consistent sleep time, wake time. Restrict evening screen time. Shifting exercise early in the day as much as possible (tricky given other commitments).
Anything I’ve missed? Anybody else had similar experiences and tried anything to improve? Like I say as a feature of life they aren’t particularly concerning, but I definitely feel my sleep quality could improve!
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Sleep Paralysis can be terrifying.
I've not had an episode for 15+ years but used to suffer regularly, especially if I tried to catch a sneaky 'power nap' mid afternoon.
As an aside there is some interesting art work on the subject, esp. from the Victorian era.
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Oh wow some of those pictures are pretty intense.
Interestingly that fits with the disturbed sleep patterns theory. Looking forward to experimenting with a regular pattern to see what happens!
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I used to have sleep paralysis as a child but at the age where everything you described was just labeled as nightmares. I only realised many years later because it stopped by maybe 10-12 years old. I would regularly wake in the night but be unable to move. If I was facing towards the wall I would often have the feeling someone was standing behind me, but couldn't turn to look.
Facing into the room was much more bizarre and specific. I had a large shelf system on the other side of the room (250*50cm or so) and I would wake in the night to see a woman lying on the shelf staring at me. She was always dressed in a black dress with white lace sections around the neck and sleeves. The odd thing was initially it really freaked me out but I remember at some point having the realisation that she just looked confused rather than scary. We would just stare at each other for a while and then I'd fall asleep again. Very odd.
I also lucid dream occasionally and keep meaning to experiment with the techniques to make it happen more often. For me the lucid dream tends to happen if I get 'stuck' trying to complete a task in the dream (such as crossing a busy road) and then think 'this is ridiculous' which somehow snaps the dream state. I'll then often spend a little time exploring a bizarre dream world and can usually fly at least a little, before it slips away and I either wake up or get back into the dream.
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Years ago, my dad thought he experienced something like that. He was sitting in front of a fire and got up to walk off. He felt as though he was immobilised with his feet stuck to the floor. He tried to summon all of his will to snap out of what he thought was some weird sleep aberration. But he pulled his feet out of his shoes. All that had happened was that the soles of the shoes had melted from the fire heat and had stuck to the carpet!
He cut the shoes off the soles but couldn't get the soles off the carpet. The had the carpet with the soles stuck to it for years.
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Has anyone experienced 'sound' while in the grip of sleep paralysis?
My episodes were always accompanied by a steadily rising crescendo of something like a drill that vibrated in the back of my head until the pitch became unbearable, together with the palpable weight of the shadowy presence weighing me down.An attempt to scream would produce nothing but silence and then I'd wake.... absolutely terrifying.
As I said, I've not had an episode in ages but even describing long ago events and pointing monk of funk in the general direction of the images to be found online has unsettled me.
Sweet dreams, UKB.....
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I get occasional sleep paralysis. I can remember having it since I was a teenager. I may have had it as a child as well but I don't remember.
It usually happens when waking after a bad dream so the adrenaline is already pumping and I'm already in a state of heightened anxiety.
I am much more likely to get it if I am staying somewhere unfamiliar like a hotel, and I'm more likely to get it during periods where I am sleeping badly or when I'm stressed.
I will be unable to move. It feels like I cannot breathe, as if someone is sitting on my chest, with their hands around my throat. It usually feels like there is someone else in the room, often "they" will be at the edge of my field of vision. This will probably be something vaguely human shaped like a jacket or dressing gown hanging up but because I cannot look directly at it or focus on it, it looks like a person.
After what feels like a long time, I will slowly gain movement. This will begin by being able to move my eyes, but initially only tiny, slow movements, and it takes huge effort. After what seems like a few minutes, I will be able to move my eyes normally. Then, I will regain the ability to blink. Only then do I begin to feel like I can breathe again. Then finally, comes movement of my limbs, starting with very slight movement in my fingers and toes.
Now that I know it is sleep paralysis, and know that it will be over shortly, I can relax after the initial shock and just accept it for what it is.
I don't know if there is a confirmed genetic element to it(?) but both of my sisters and my grandmother have/had it with identical symptoms to me.
My grandmother used to tell us stories about the ghost that tried to strangle her in her sleep in the 1940s when my grandparents rented a house in which the previous tenant had died. They only stayed in that house for 2 days before moving out. The ghost then caught up with her a decade later when they were staying at a holiday cottage.
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I also sometimes get hypnogogic jerks, usually in the form of a violent kick of one or both legs. Thankfully, they tend to be straight up into the air so they don't connect with anyone or anything.
I managed to tweak my hamstring once with a hypnogogic jerk.
I can also lucid dream, although I don't do it very often anymore.
When I was a student, I had a housemate who wanted to learn to lucid dream because he thought it would allow him to use his sleeping time for studying, giving him more free time when he was awake.
Hearing him regularly talking about the techniques that he used to trigger lucid dreams meant that I began to recognise them during my dreams.
The techniques he used:
- Keeping a dream log. Anytime he woke up, he would immediately jot down any details he could remember from the dream he just had. Often, he would find in the morning that he had made notes in his dream log, even though he couldn't remember waking up. I never kept a log.
- Learning to recognise the telltale signs that you are dreaming such as: lack of colour, electrical appliances that do not work, clocks without hands, geographical anomalies, seeing a long lost acquaintance, or seeing people out of their usual context
- Confirming that he was dreaming. His method for doing this was to reach into his pocket to pull out an ice cream. If he was dreaming, he would be successful. I never bothered with this step.
- Fighting the brain's natural instinct to force you to wake up once you have realised you are dreaming. My method for doing this was to grab hold of the nearest object and to squeeze onto it with all of my strength. I think the theory behind this was that the sense of touch is the last one to go after a dream ends. Things would go dark, and sounds would become more distant until I couldn't hear anything, but as long as I didn't let go, I could bring myself back into the dream.
Once I was more used to it, I didn't need to do the grabbing technique, my mind learned to accept that it was dreaming and that that was ok.
Once I had learned not to wake up, I could control my dreams and fly, or decide that there would be a beautiful beach on the other side of that closed door, or I could walk through walls (I discovered that my brain thinks the inside of walls are extremely cold). It was comforting to know that I could recognise a bad dream, and could then control the situation to turn it into something more pleasant.
I've heard some people use a technique where they deliberately induce sleep paralysis as a window into lucid dreaming. I have never been able to control anything during sleep paralysis, it always ends with me waking up. And I would never voluntarily go through sleep paralysis, it is not at all pleasant.
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I used to have sleep paralysis as a child but at the age where everything you described was just labeled as nightmares. I only realised many years later because it stopped by maybe 10-12 years old. I would regularly wake in the night but be unable to move. If I was facing towards the wall I would often have the feeling someone was standing behind me, but couldn't turn to look.
Facing into the room was much more bizarre and specific. I had a large shelf system on the other side of the room (250*50cm or so) and I would wake in the night to see a woman lying on the shelf staring at me. She was always dressed in a black dress with white lace sections around the neck and sleeves. The odd thing was initially it really freaked me out but I remember at some point having the realisation that she just looked confused rather than scary. We would just stare at each other for a while and then I'd fall asleep again. Very odd.
Exactly this.
When I was 8 or 9 years old I had the same thing, except I was always facing into the room, back against the wall.
For a few weeks, every night without fail, there was an old woman hovering outside my bedroom window (we were first floor and at this time I had no curtains in my room). She was slightly translucent, shimmering slightly, speaking very softly and the words would get muffled down to silence with the peak of each beating of my heart. She always looked troubled. I'd end up absolutely screaming my head off once I'd fully awoken each night.
My overriding memories of it are of my dad screaming and shaking me trying dragging me back into my bedroom, turning my head to face the window and trying to force me to open my eyes to prove they're was nothing there. I guess that's what several weeks of interrupted sleep does to a middle aged man.
I eventually (just as MischaHY did) came to the conclusion this person meant me no harm. On occasion I've seen a very mild ghost story on TV that's set my the hair on the back of my neck on end because of the sound effect they've used, or the shimmering apparition, or combo of the two.
These days I generally get absolutely wild dreams when I have a fever, which I look at as a wee silver lining, something to look forward to accompany the night sweats
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Incredible stories all round. It’s so bizarre how stereotyped the experiences seem to be and also how similar the stories are across generations. These ideas of ‘sleep demons’ or the ‘night hag’ are new to me and I had no idea that the term ‘night mare’ used to specifically refer to sleep paralysis. Amazing that stories with such similar imagery can be found dating back hundreds of years, yet re-occur in people who have never heard these stories before. These images also seem to occur in a similar way across different cultures. I wonder how much these sorts of experiences might have influenced myths or ghost stories. The idea you might just assume that a ghost really is trying to strangle you in your sleep and that image of the old lady in the black with the white lace are particularly chilling!
Personally I’ve never had the visual hallucinations, I’m aware of the presence, but I never see it. I don’t hear it either as far as I remember, I just know that it’s there and that whatever I do I can’t turn to see it. It doesn’t bother me, given that I was an adult the first time it happened, and knew about sleep paralysis, but certainly I don’t get any sense that the presence is benevolent. I can see how terrifying it would be to a child, or adult experiencing this without insight.
In answer to sdm’s question, my reading around seems to suggest that, yes, there is a genetic component to this, but also it’s probably a lot more common than I realised.
Also, that story about the shoes melted into the carpet is excellent.
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I love reading this type of stuff as I find it amazing... The way I sleep is I get into bed decide now is the time to sleep and then am getting woken by my alarm. In between nothing usually unless I get disturbed by the kids and even then I might vaguely hear something is going on and then just go back to sleep. It is like I just lose 5-8 hours of my existence. I don't remember ever dreaming.
I have needed to shake the wife from sleep paralysis though (pretty obvious when it is occurring with the noises she makes), she says it helps as she feels trapped and likes to get out of the situation.
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that image of the old lady in the black with the white lace
Bizarrely something I’m very clear on is that it wasn’t an old woman. I would suggest 30-40s with a worried expression and a very intense stare.
Maybe she’s also experiencing sleep paralysis somewhere and we’re just vibing with each other. Not sure why she’s on the shelf though.
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For years I have had incredibly violent dreams on occasion but last night I dreamed that Fiend and I were playing warhammer under some random grit crag and all the dice kept rolling down the hill so that was much nicer
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I love reading this type of stuff as I find it amazing... The way I sleep is I get into bed decide now is the time to sleep and then am getting woken by my alarm. In between nothing usually unless I get disturbed by the kids and even then I might vaguely hear something is going on and then just go back to sleep. It is like I just lose 5-8 hours of my existence. I don't remember ever dreaming.
I have needed to shake the wife from sleep paralysis though (pretty obvious when it is occurring with the noises she makes), she says it helps as she feels trapped and likes to get out of the situation.
My partner has so far battled a wall of giant reds spiders (while stamping on my slumbering body), yanked the bed clothes off to chase “escaped hamsters”, pushed her foot through a duvet cover trying to “apply the brakes before hitting a lorry”, clambered over me to get to the windows (which she threw wide open) to “let the swam of bees out” and sworn blind that the walls were moving/closing in; to name but a few of the past 12 years nighttime adventures…