UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Luke Owens on January 30, 2017, 03:39:51 pm
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I've been training a lot over the last month and seen some gains in finger strength. It was suggested by a friend that I should have a light week to avoid injury and let myself adapt to the training I've been doing.
I couldn't find a thread about this so I was wondering what others do? How much should I ease off the training and for how long until I get back into it? Just a week?
For example I've been doing a lot of fingerboarding do I still do hangs or just stop for a week? Similary I've been AnCapping for a few weeks, do I keep this up due to adaption times being long?
Also, what's the science behind having a light week after a heavy few weeks? Is this supercompensation?
Cheers
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From reading a couple of things last night I'm thinking this bigger training load followed by extra rest is actually over reaching?
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I do this. I find it's great for allowing the body to rest and repair and keep niggles at bay.
I don't do any fingerboarding / campusing that week. Keep the same number of climbing sessions but reduce the volume & difficultly. I also try to go for a couple of jogs and stretch so I don't tighten up.
Not sure of the physiological benefit but always perform well on training sets / outdoors the week after.
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I try and have a rest week after about 5 weeks training. Mainly because most training information and books that I have read suggest that its important to let your body recover if you're training hard. During the week I don't do any finger or upper body exercise just light stretching and mobility stuff.
I do generally feel at my strongest second session immediately after my rest week.
Its also really useful for planning in non climbing & family things.
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Are adaption times long with 'Ancap' (where's that coming from)? This isn't a case of misinterpreting the old tables starting period this can be worked for?
The old Binney presentations go through over reaching quite well (waves) I seem to remember (Shark has them on here somewhere).
The BM boys used to advocate blocks of targeted finger work (~4 weeks at a time).
I think most importantly, you know yourself. How are you feeling / performing?
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Both with Lattice and my Spanish coach, I have an easier week every ~4 weeks where I approximately halve the overall load.
I find it really helps to avoid burnout, cash in on gains, get some time on rock etc etc.
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Cheers guys, I struggle to rest and usaully fall victim to over doing it and getting ill, I'm not very good at assesing when I've over done it. Last time I did too much I strained a couple of A2's. This time I've stoped after 5 weeks of hard (for me) training.
Are adaption times long with 'Ancap' (where's that coming from)? This isn't a case of misinterpreting the old tables starting period this can be worked for?
Sorry, maybe I didn't explain myself properly. I've only been doing AnCap for 3 weeks, the adaption time for AnCap is ~16 weeks. With a light week being restful I was thinking how AnCap would fit in as it's pretty intense and takes a couple of days to recover from kinda defeating the object of an easier week?
I've done alright so far, a 7 days since I last did hangs and 2 full days rest.
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That adaption time is the time before gains stop/slow down rather than a minimum requirement before it's worthwhile, which seems to have confused people in the past.
Re AnCap, you could just do a half session?
I wouldn't not do the hard stuff, including hangs, just do less of it, and of course you don't have to miss out the same thing every time.
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Weightlifters call it an "unloading" week I think. Steve Bechtel also waxes quite lyrical about the benefits of a "week 4" iirc (And it sound like you've had 5 weeks on ...).
By analogy with the weightlifting one could theoretically do less load and less volume, but still do the full complement of exercises, so the body remembers them.
But at my punter level I find just doing light enjoyable climbing plus some gentle aerobic exercise is the way forward for me if I'm feeling that trashed. The mental energy and appetitive for training I regain seem more than worth it.
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Cheers guys
That adaption time is the time before gains stop/slow down rather than a minimum requirement before it's worthwhile, which seems to have confused people in the past.
Re AnCap, you could just do a half session?
I wouldn't not do the hard stuff, including hangs, just do less of it, and of course you don't have to miss out the same thing every time.
Yeah, I figured out awhile ago about the adaption time is the time before you plateau and that any amount of weeks doing it is beneficial. I guess my original question should of been along the lines of will reducing/dropping AnCap for a week by a bad idea.
How would you do half an AnCap session?
Cheers
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I've read running coaches training plans that have 3 wks of increasing mileage per week by 10%, then a week at 75% i.e. an easier wk. The main reason being to allow adaptation and avoid injury.
Anyway, you can't train at your max in a session if you're knackered. Clearly getting that balance is what it's all about, but I wouldn't stress a light week (I'm having one this wk, due to illness, for example). The following week you'll be fresher and able to train harder.
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I usually do one week of just board climbing after three weeks of complete training (climbing specific training and weights, or sprints, or boxing bag or rings or whatever).
It's usually dedicated to redpointing projects, an outcome that not always happens.
The climbing-only weeks is lower in volume but keeps intensity high because it involves redpointing at the limit.
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How would you do half an AnCap session?
When I first started doing these as footless campussing sessions I couldn't keep up with the likes of Stu and would have to break it up into blocks; I'd essentially do half the blocks.
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Weightlifters call it an "unloading" week I think.
And also "deloading"
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Anyway, you can't train at your max in a session if you're knackered.
I've often wondered how training when tired effects gains.
For example; If you do a deadhang workout one day then another deadhang workout the following day is this likely to be more or less beneficial than just doing one workout and resting enough to recover fully?
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Grab a copy of this, covers that sort of thing and much more...
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I guess my original question should of been along the lines of will reducing/dropping AnCap for a week by a bad idea.
Probably not it you think of the time it takes to detrain rather than adapt:
Steve Betchel again
the residual training effect of different qualities is as follows:
Aerobic Endurance: 30 days
Maximum Strength: 30 days
Anaerobic Endurance: 15 days
Power Endurance: 12 days
Maximum Power or Speed: 5 days
How would you do half an AnCap session?
For me a full session is 3 sets of 4 so I could just go with 6 reps straight out and would be struggling without the break between sets, equally go with a harder circuit or less rest.
Got me wondering actually whether it would work doing more of your strength and power work in that first week while you're fresh then tapering it back? So, if you intended to do 6 sessions (3 bouldering, 3 FB) over 3 weeks, you'd do 3 sessions in week 1, 2 in week 2 and 1 in week 3, obviously switching round the energy system work to oppose.
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Anyway, you can't train at your max in a session if you're knackered.
I've often wondered how training when tired effects gains.
For example; If you do a deadhang workout one day then another deadhang workout the following day is this likely to be more or less beneficial than just doing one workout and resting enough to recover fully?
Isn't that the whole point of 'non-linear' periodization i.e. you can train different 'things' and energy systems day after day, but if you try and train the same thing you'd have to take loads of rest days, days that are effectively wasted as you could be training something else?
Here's a simple analogy for those training for ultra marathons (obvs they're training endurance). Maybe an on-sight sport climber's base training phase wouldn't look too dissimilar?
M - Easy run / AeroCap
T - Long mid-week with hills / Max Hangs + AeroCap
W - Recovery run / Low intensity AeroCap (ARC)
T - Speed / AnCap
F - Rest
S - Hills / Max Hangs & strength work
S - Long run / AeroCap
Soz probably :off:!
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I've been training a lot over the last month and seen some gains in finger strength. It was suggested by a friend that I should have a light week to avoid injury and let myself adapt to the training I've been doing.
I couldn't find a thread about this so I was wondering what others do? How much should I ease off the training and for how long until I get back into it? Just a week?
For example I've been doing a lot of fingerboarding do I still do hangs or just stop for a week? Similary I've been AnCapping for a few weeks, do I keep this up due to adaption times being long?
Also, what's the science behind having a light week after a heavy few weeks? Is this supercompensation?
Cheers
To me, there's 3 things to take into consideration. Or 3 play-offs perhaps.
1. Are you rested
2. Are you adapted
3. Are you losing gains (de-training)
For me, and what I use in my methodology is
1. Constantly go after the aim of having "adapted" climbers and not necessarily "rested" climbers. There's a big difference.
2. When you put your training into a focused block try and do just a touch of maintenance of the stuff you've previously created adaptations in. Often just once a week can be enough
3. Only look to feel "rested" on occasional days in your taper and nearly all the time in what's traditionally termed "transition" period, which is basically resting your body and mind after a long training cycle of 6-12-18 months etc etc.
Hope that helps
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Anyway, you can't train at your max in a session if you're knackered.
I've often wondered how training when tired effects gains.
For example; If you do a deadhang workout one day then another deadhang workout the following day is this likely to be more or less beneficial than just doing one workout and resting enough to recover fully?
as to the question of back to back "dead hangs" which i'll call "max hangs" (could be you meant other kinds of fingerboard sessions, but few people use "dead hangs" as a term, because you don't hang like a dead anything, but fully engaged).
if you are progressing (weight or time) from one session to the next: you are seeing gains.
most people need at least 48 hours, often 72 hours to super compensate.
if you are not progressing from one session to the next, you either don't have the right intensity, or you haven't given your body time enough to get stronger.
it took me years to get the volume down and intensity up as well as the rest days, to actually get stronger. i always just did more, to climb more.
Isn't that the whole point of 'non-linear' periodization i.e. you can train different 'things' and energy systems day after day, but if you try and train the same thing you'd have to take loads of rest days, days that are effectively wasted as you could be training something else?
Here's a simple analogy for those training for ultra marathons (obvs they're training endurance). Maybe an on-sight sport climber's base training phase wouldn't look too dissimilar?
M - Easy run / AeroCap
T - Long mid-week with hills / Max Hangs + AeroCap
W - Recovery run / Low intensity AeroCap (ARC)
T - Speed / AnCap
F - Rest
S - Hills / Max Hangs & strength work
S - Long run / AeroCap
Soz probably :off:!
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Out of interest:
After a light / deload / unload / reload week, how does everyone ease back in? Repeat the week before the rest? Continue progression?
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Usually a light fingerboard session (lower intensity) and then just some moderate bouldering. Tend to find the day after that feel stronger than before the rest so end up gunning it on some hard boulders/projects