UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: duncan on October 10, 2018, 09:22:45 pm
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Dawn Wall
To get the most important point out of the way first, it does answer the “how do you poo up there” question. It also answers the inquiry posed to Caldwell in the first lines of the film “what makes you want to climb something like Dawn Wall”. Some climbers may be uncomfortable with the answers it provides.
I went with slightly low expectations being over-familiar with the stories and having heard it was a Hollywoodisation of Yosemite history (Sender + BigUp have form with Valley Uprising). It’s clearly targeted at the Netflix audience that made that film a breakout and measured against that aim it is a great success. I really enjoyed it and not just from the obvious joy of seeing Yosemite in a proper cinema.
It’s largely a portrait of Caldwell rather than a climbing film. The first half will be familiar to readers of The Push: his unusual childhood and Father’s idiosyncratic parenting, the fateful trip to Kyrgyzstan (very powerful), marriage to Roden and divorce (both interviewed, treated more even-handedly than in the book), subsequent depression then channeling this into the seemingly Quixotic attempts on the Dawn Wall. The second half focuses on the climb itself and especially Jorgeson’s increasingly despairing efforts to finish ‘the pitch’ until, with perfect timing, he snatches victory from the jaws of defeat. My hands were sweating even though I knew the outcome. The final scene features Caldwell’s two year old son bouldering, completing the narrative arc.
The film is exemplary in how it presents modern rock climbing to a wider audience. Explaining the process of multi-pitch climbing was elegantly done. We got a real sense of the long-term project, the drama in the emotional commitment not the risk-taking. Occasionally, the buttons are pressed a little too blatantly for the taste of an uptight Englishman and there is too much space given to the mass media coverage, an opportunity for some knowing winks to climbers, and the one point where the film allows itself to be distracted from the main story. The ruthless distillation of the tale to its essence has upset some cognoscenti: there is no sense anyone other than Caldwell, Jorgeson and Roden have ever climbed El Cap; no mention of the aid climbers who had passed that way (I can live with that); no acknowledgement of the supporting sherpas and, of course, no mention of Adam Ondra! Historical rigour would have diverted the flow of the story.
The biggest star of all is El Capitan and doesn’t she look glorious on the big screen.
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Great write up on Dawn Wall, agree with a most of it, particularly going in with moderate expectations which probably helped a lot!
Thought John Long’s context sections were really great at distilling the essence of the challenge in a plain English way.
Thought it was great that Rodden got to share some of her side of the story to balance out The Push.
If people want a potted history lesson about Yosemite then luckily there’s another film that does just that!
Agree re: Ondra too, just a small section at the end as per the women’s sport climbing film would have been enough, but I guess that may have dispelled the mythos of the impossible challenge.
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Very much agree re: Dawn Wall. I had quite low expectations and really really enjoyed it. I can see why they obliterated any mention of aid climbing and tactics - they clearly want this to get onto Netflix and going into depth on those issues would detract from the story.
I particularly liked how the difficulty of route finding was so well conveyed. It's obvious to any viewer what the scale of El Cap is, and for it to be inspected on abseil and for it to come down to a 9a traverse on tiny crimps, followed by a huge dyno is just mind blowing. As if THAT is the line of least resistance!
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Found this site which seemed to list future screenings in the UK.
No idea how it works or if its legit etc.. but....
https://uk.demand.film/dawn-wall/
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Does anyone know if free solo is coming to the UK?
Seeing Dawn Wall on a big screen has made me realise Free Solo will probably look really good on a massive screen.
It also transpires that the Odean in Manchester don't check your ticket is you're wearing a scratty down/synthetic jacket. Anyone looking vaguely like a climber was just pointed at the door to the screen and could wander in!
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Found this site which seemed to list future screenings in the UK.
No idea how it works or if its legit etc.. but....
https://uk.demand.film/dawn-wall/
It is legit, it's wear I got my ticket for the Manchester Dawn all showing.
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Does anyone know if free solo is coming to the UK?
Premiere at Kendal Mountain Festival 17 November http://www.mountainfest.co.uk/tickets/buy/780127
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Free solo in cinemas 14th December?
https://freesolofilm.co.uk
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Found this site which seemed to list future screenings in the UK.
No idea how it works or if its legit etc.. but....
https://uk.demand.film/dawn-wall/
It is legit, it's wear I got my ticket for the Manchester Dawn all showing.
It's legit. But you must book your tickets in advance.
I didn't know if I could get out of work in time. I got there in time but only just and didn't have a chance to order tickets. The odeon had no mechanism to allow me to purchase a ticket on the door and there was no signal or WiFi so I couldn't "prebook" on my phone.
I was at the cinema, wanting to pay them money for a screening that was half full but they wouldn't take my money or let me in. :shrug:
So I sacked it off and trained at the near deserted wall instead. I'll just watch it at home for free later on instead.
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Found this site which seemed to list future screenings in the UK.
No idea how it works or if its legit etc.. but....
https://uk.demand.film/dawn-wall/
Sick, just booked some! :2thumbsup:
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What if He Falls? (https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000006186870/what-if-he-falls.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage)
Short making-of discussing the morality of filming Free Solo. Footage of The Phoenix, Excellent Adventure (Rostrum), Freestone (Upper Yosemite Falls), Les Revieras Pourpres (Taghia) and Freerider itself.
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For Free Solo, do they crack straight on with the film? What is approx running time?
It's showing in Aberdeen, but i have a small time window (it starts at 6:15, wife has pilates at 8!)
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Is there a list of showings anywhere?
Edit: yes there is! https://freesolofilm.co.uk/watchincinemas#watch
Can't see where you book tickets though. Presumably through each individual outlet.
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Can't see where you book tickets though. Presumably through each individual outlet.
Seems so, for Leeds Leeds Leeds
https://www.myvue.com/cinema/leeds-the-light/film/free-solo/times
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Run time is 1:37 btw. A bit marginal for me...
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From the description it looks like there might be a Q+A at the start too (assume recorded elsewhere) so that may push the time up some more too.
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What if He Falls? (https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000006186870/what-if-he-falls.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage)
Short making-of discussing the morality of filming Free Solo. Footage of The Phoenix, Excellent Adventure (Rostrum), Freestone (Upper Yosemite Falls), Les Revieras Pourpres (Taghia) and Freerider itself.
I thought that was worth watching. For the first time ever probably, some footage of soloing actually made me feel a bit queasy, and to think about my own soloing.
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Anyone got tickets for this? The UK site was showing screenings on the 11th Dec but it's offline atm and the Bristol screening is not showing on the cinemas website?
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I think this should link to the Bristol showing https://www.myvue.com/cinema/bristol-cribbs-causeway/film/free-solo/times
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Cheers teestub, the website was originally showing a screening at the Watershed cinema too, which is much more convenient for me, but it's not on their site now?
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Ah weird, is that an independent? May be worth giving them a bell, but I guess you’d expect it to be on their calendar by now.
I noticed that it wasn’t on the website for the Hebden Bridge independent last time I checked.
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Yeah it's an indy, they've only just published their calender for Dec and it's not on there. Shame as it'd have been nice to go there rather than a chain in the horrific temple of consumerism that is cribbs causeway...
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Yeah man I fed the same about having to got to The Light in Leeds which is a very similar offering!
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It's on at the Bradford Media Museum, Stubbs.
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It's on at the Bradford Media Museum, Stubbs.
Bought my ticket yesterday :2thumbsup:
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If anyone has a spare ticket for Saturdays screening at Kendall then I’m in the market...
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Someone is selling some on the other channel.
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Well spotted sdm - I’ve pm’d them
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Saw it last night, just as previously described on this channel. Well made for all audiences and I liked the merging of historic pieces and "real-time" ascent. El Cap looked great on the big screen :clap2:
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Anyone know when these will be available for download?
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Saw the premiere of Free Solo in Kendal last night. It is the most moving and inspirational film I’ve ever seen on lots of different levels beside the obvious.
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I don't know if I'd go that far, but it is very, very good.
I think they have managed to make it work for a wide range of audiences, which is a triumph. However, they tip toed around the fact that he's blatantly got ASD, presumably because he's not had a formal diagnosis? It would have been really interesting for this to be explored in more detail and would have taken the film to another level IMO.
His compulsion to do what he does is... disturbing. I admire him for his special ability, but at the same time I feel sad for him. I left feeling lucky that I have more in my life than just climbing.
I wouldn't expect to see anything like that again in my lifetime. Maybe he'll solo something else of a similar standard, but I can't see it being documented/filmed in the same way.
Just incredible.
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However, they tip toed around the fact that he's blatantly got ASD, presumably because he's not had a formal diagnosis? It would have been really interesting for this to be explored in more detail and would have taken the film to another level
You mean handled sensitively.
Yes he’s obviously on the spectrum but I like that the audience can make up their own minds on where on the spectrum and the wider implications and provoking you to explore your own views and even personality with respect to climbing.
His girlfriends attempts to make him more emotionally and socially aware is endearing and his cack handed attempts to try to be so are at times hilarious
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For those that live in that their London there is a showing on the 11th December with a Q&A afterwards with Honnald et al.
http://genesiscinema.co.uk/GenesisCinema.dll/Booking?Booking=TSelectItems.waSelectItemsPrompt.TcsWebMenuItem_0.TcsWebTab_0.TcsPerformance_14592578.TcsSection_4496897 (http://genesiscinema.co.uk/GenesisCinema.dll/Booking?Booking=TSelectItems.waSelectItemsPrompt.TcsWebMenuItem_0.TcsWebTab_0.TcsPerformance_14592578.TcsSection_4496897)
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For those that live in that their London there is a showing on the 11th December with a Q&A afterwards with Honnald et al.
http://genesiscinema.co.uk/GenesisCinema.dll/Booking?Booking=TSelectItems.waSelectItemsPrompt.TcsWebMenuItem_0.TcsWebTab_0.TcsPerformance_14592578.TcsSection_4496897 (http://genesiscinema.co.uk/GenesisCinema.dll/Booking?Booking=TSelectItems.waSelectItemsPrompt.TcsWebMenuItem_0.TcsWebTab_0.TcsPerformance_14592578.TcsSection_4496897)
It seems this is a simultaneous satellite linkup Q&A with other showings. I've booked to go to one in Nottingham and there's a concurrent one in Worksop too. I imagine the strange kickoff time (starts at 6, over by 8:30!) is to accomodate US time.
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I'd suggest "intelligent" rather than "on the spectrum".
I thought it was typically the case that those with aspergers are often very intelligent
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I'd suggest "intelligent" rather than "on the spectrum".
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but to my mind there was an opportunity with this film to educate people about ASD.
Maybe as Shark says the filmmakers were "being sensitive". However, ASD isn't about intelligence or lack of and the world would be a better place if we stopped stigmatising people for "being on the spectrum" and instead tried to understand better what that means for them.
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Dunno. I am not expert. Honnold seems to me remarkably similar to lots of successful people I have met in academia and especially in my previous career, mostly male but not exclusively, who combine a hyper-rational approach to life with perceived insensitivity. My suspicion is that the eagerness to label them as "on the spectrum", "unempathic" or abnormal in some way is born from factors like jealousy or intellectual incomprehension rather than any kind of understanding of clinical psychology. Honnold's foundation is a good example of how people like that can be misunderstood. He appears "cold" to some but actually donates a third of his income and makes a considered objective effort to make the maximum long-term impact from his foundation rather then being blown around by whatever fashionable emotive concern has most recently hit Facebook. Not unlike Bill Gates actually.
Good points.
However, ASD isn't about intelligence or lack of and the world would be a better place if we stopped stigmatising people for "being on the spectrum" and instead tried to understand better what that means for them.
If it is stigmatising to say "on the spectrum" why do you keep referring to it as ASD which stands for Autism Spectrum Disorder
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Cos that's what the medical professionals here in the UK refer to it as. Nowadays Aspergers is described as a part of ASD, which is a more collective term.
I'm not suggesting it's bad to say "on the spectrum" but people do tend to use that phrase in a derogatory way (I know I certainly have in the past).
(I have a child with ASD so I am reasonably informed).
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I think it is useful and everyday way of understanding/categorising some people's personalities. Its not derogatory I think just observational.
(I have a child with ASD so I am reasonably informed).
One of mine may be on the spectrum ;)
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Its not derogatory I think just observational.
Not entirely convinced by that Shark. It’s probably up to the person you’re describing as ‘on the spectrum’ to decide whether they find it derogatory or not. I wonder what Oliver Sacks would say?
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Well the D does stand for disorder. Agree with habrich, it would seem to say more about the priorities of those who devise the terminology.
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I'd suggest "intelligent" rather than "on the spectrum".
I thought it was typically the case that those with aspergers are often very intelligent
Dunno. I am not expert. Honnold seems to me remarkably similar to lots of successful people I have met in academia and especially in my previous career, mostly male but not exclusively, who combine a hyper-rational approach to life with perceived insensitivity. My suspicion is that the eagerness to label them as "on the spectrum", "unempathic" or abnormal in some way is born from factors like jealousy or intellectual incomprehension rather than any kind of understanding of clinical psychology. Honnold's foundation is a good example of how people like that can be misunderstood. He appears "cold" to some but actually donates a third of his income and makes a considered objective effort to make the maximum long-term impact from his foundation rather then being blown around by whatever fashionable emotive concern has most recently hit Facebook. Not unlike Bill Gates actually.
Very well put.
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Its not derogatory I think just observational.
Not entirely convinced by that Shark. It’s probably up to the person you’re describing as ‘on the spectrum’ to decide whether they find it derogatory or not. I wonder what Oliver Sacks would say?
I take it back. It is insensitive. And lazy thinking.
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I'd suggest "intelligent" rather than "on the spectrum".
I thought it was typically the case that those with aspergers are often very intelligent
Not in all cases, those that are high functioning are often very intelligent. You generally don’t hear about those that are struggling to function unless you work in health or social care
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Anyone know when these will be available for download?
Dawn Wall is tomorrow http://www.dawnwall-film.com/buy-now.php
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Cos that's what the medical professionals here in the UK refer to it as. Nowadays Aspergers is described as a part of ASD, which is a more collective term.
I'm not suggesting it's bad to say "on the spectrum" but people do tend to use that phrase in a derogatory way (I know I certainly have in the past).
(I have a child with ASD so I am reasonably informed).
I have one too, and can confirm this. However, in the US Asperger's is still considered a separate condition, whereas in the UK it's regarded as part of the spectrum these days.
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Any ideas about free solo?
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I've not seen the film yet, but working in education I do find the overuse of the terms a bit annoying. It seems like anybody who is a bit quirky and good at remembering facts is labelled, by non experts I hasten to add, as "on the spectrum". It seems to be a bit of a trend thing, along with anyone who likes to be tidy being described as, or describing themselves as, OCD.
I think it's probably fairly insulting to both the person being misdiagnosed, and to people who are "neuro-atypical". (this label seems to be becoming more widely used as it removes the disorder part).
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Agree Ged.
Also, there is the misconception of correlation between something "neuro-atypical" and the use of the word disorder.
I've had many discussions about "Asperger types" in climbing, and
in my own struggles, it was suggested many years ago that I have an assessment for Asperger's - which came back negative.
I'd suggest that Honnold's experiences in relation to "the wall" are far easier for us to relate to than we'd like to recognise. He just finds that environment far more comfortable than the "off the wall" environment of normal (?) life, than (some of ;)) the rest of us.
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I'd suggest "intelligent" rather than "on the spectrum".
I thought it was typically the case that those with aspergers are often very intelligent
Dunno. I am not expert. Honnold seems to me remarkably similar to lots of successful people I have met in academia and especially in my previous career, mostly male but not exclusively, who combine a hyper-rational approach to life with perceived insensitivity. My suspicion is that the eagerness to label them as "on the spectrum", "unempathic" or abnormal in some way is born from factors like jealousy or intellectual incomprehension rather than any kind of understanding of clinical psychology. Honnold's foundation is a good example of how people like that can be misunderstood. He appears "cold" to some but actually donates a third of his income and makes a considered objective effort to make the maximum long-term impact from his foundation rather then being blown around by whatever fashionable emotive concern has most recently hit Facebook. Not unlike Bill Gates actually.
From the little I know from endless research since earlier this year after some things happened, what you're missing with that description of 'intelligence' is that someone with ASD may be very good at thinking logically and understanding systems. But they will have very limited 'emotional intelligence' - they'd find it hard to see the world from another's viewpoint, at understanding emotional reciprocity, to imagine what someone else is feeling, to understand how they are perceived by others. In short all the elements of empathy. It isn't not caring, it's being poor at appropriately displaying that they care in ways that people without ASD understand. In addition various sensory issues and being prone to shutting down when overloaded by sensory stimulus.
'Intelligence' and understanding and reacting appropriately to other people's emotions aren't mutually exclusive. There are plenty of very intelligent people who are also very good at understanding others' emotions. Many of the most successful people have both.
Regards the concept of donating money to causes; donating in a rational thought-through way is an example of logical thinking. It doesn't mean someone understands how to relate day-to-day with empathy with the people closest to them. You could argue the point about what's of most benefit to 'cause xyz' - intelligently focused financial contributions or some personal TLC. Depends on the cause no doubt. That's not directed at Honnold, I have no idea.
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You might be better reading Do all cats have Aspergers by Kate Hoopmann.
A patient who had the diagnosis reckoned it would help most people understand the condition and how it effects you.
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No, but I don't think I wrote that. We were discussing whether Honnold is "on the spectrum". I am happy to defer to your knowledge, but it seems to me that functional smart people with Honnold-like characters are so common that assigning them some kind of pejorative label like "on the spectrum" is both lazy and somewhat offensive, and, perhaps more importantly, unhelpful to kids and adults who are actually in need of professional help for ASD etc.
It might be offensive if they didn't have aspergers. But if they did and bearing in mind it's a spectrum condition that ranges from very mild to very severe- it isn't black and white, then saying they were on the spectrum or that they had many traits in common with ASD shouldn't be offensive or pejorative at all - it's simply acknowledging a developmental fact. However functional you might think someone appears to be, ASD does affect how they interact with people. If they or their partners/family don't think it negatively impacts them then great.
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Another perspective is that people often use the term to describe unusual or ‘unsettling’ behaviour or traits in others. Creating an explicit spurious link between this ‘unsettling’ behaviour and those who may be affected by the diagnosis of ASD. Some quotes from a blog on the subject below.
“Such use and misuse of descriptive labels related to identity have historically been linked with prejudice and discrimination, as they come to represent something more sinister over time,"
‘By using the slang term "on the spectrum" or "autistic" to describe people who have trouble socializing, communicating, or empathizing, we insult people who fit the actual diagnosis — and spread some insidious myths about autism in general.’
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First of all - this thread reminds me why I love most of the people on this forum - intelligent, thoughtful, and reasonable which all seem so hard to find these days...
I have a daughter who is special needs. She has an incredibly rare genetic disorder (around 200 known cases). Seeing and being part of the special needs community, there is a huge range of disorders. For over a decade there was discussion and/or questions from teachers, teachers aides, parents of other special needs children, and other random friends and parents about whether she was autistic. The answer from our end was always no. It didn't fit her.
As the years went on we saw so many kids diagnosed autistic. In my opinion (untrained) many of the diagnosis were because parents wanted a diagnosis, autism has a huge amount of funding, and it's an easy answer to give people. I say that because if we had wanted we could have easily had our daughter labeled that way from medical professionals in order to make sure she got the help she needed. In the 90's, every kid who had issues at school was ADD or ADHD. Now autism "spectrum" is becoming a catchall of a different kind. I think it's bullS^&*, and as Habrich mentioned it has alot to do with money.
I'll also throw this one out there having lived and breathed special needs for nearly 20 years - unless you are trained and have examined the person - EVERYONE should STFU about discussing "on the spectrum" or "maybe autistic" or any other diagnosis. It is rude as f%^& whether it is true or not.
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Good post, albeit rather blue on the spectrum.
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So.... over the last 5 years I have become a Specialist Teacher running a unit to include pupils with communication and interaction difficulties in mainstream education.
Perhaps.,?!I am qualified to comment on some of the a
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Apparently the insect overlords decided that you aren't? Censorship is everywhere :ninja:
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don't leave us hanging...
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Sorry to keep you hanging folks... will edit and re-post ASAP!
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ADHD?
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So.... over the last 5 years I have become a Specialist Teacher running a unit to include pupils with communication and interaction difficulties in mainstream education.
Perhaps.,?!I am qualified to comment on some of the a
or perhaps I'm too 'in it' but maybe feel like I can at least address some of the above from an informed perspective.
So I am actually at school right now and did get dragged away to support a pupil! Then I retyped the post and then lost it all, wasn't sure I could be arsed at that point...
ASC - Autism Spectrum Condition - At present this is the diagnosis in the UK.
ASD- Autism Spectrum Disorder - No longer in use, disorder implies something is wrong.
Asperger's - No longer a diagnosis in the UK. Was used to describe those that are 'higher functioning'. Some people self-identify as Asperger's or Aspi. Asperger was a Nazi Doctor/Scientist.
According to the Autism Education Trust there are 4 key areas of difference:
Interacting - the way they interact, play and develop relationships.
Processing Information - their attention, interests and how they learn.
Sensory Processing - the way they communicate, understand and use language.
Communication - taking in and perceiving sensory information. This may include hyper (high) or hypo (low) sensitivity to the 5 senses, as well as balance and body awareness.
To suggest that someone is 'ASD' or 'on the spectrum' because they have particular interests or a personality type or are socially awkward etc. is simply not on.
Every individual I have worked with is so completely different to others that the only way to truly meet their needs is to understand and know them as an individual. They could be brilliant at verbally communicating or may be completely non-verbal. They could extremely sensitive to noise or seek out very noisy environments. They could be great at playing and interacting with others or may be completely uninterested in interacting with other people. They could have a really strong specialized interest or have a broad/ varied range of interests. The one thing that binds all of the young people I work with is that the world they have to function within can cause huge anxiety, stress and mental health issues.
Phrases like 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' can really frustrate people within the autistic community because they might say something like 'so you're on the spectrum are you...when was the last time you were so crippled by anxiety that you couldn't leave your house?'
I don't diagnose people but I do have knowledge of the process and of the thresholds for a diagnosis in the UK. In my opinion Honnold would not get a diagnosis.
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Interesting, cheers. The report we got for my son after an assessment by local team definitely used ASD. Maybe Scotland is behind the times?
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Yes. It’s a first but I think Devon may actually be ahead of the times for once!
Of course a diagnosis is only useful to help to explain the difficulties someone is having, give access to specialist support services etc. and help to start to understand how to function better. Whether Honnold or anyone is or not is kinda irrelevant assuming they function happily in the world.
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Phrases like 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' can really frustrate people within the autistic community because they might say something like 'so you're on the spectrum are you...when was the last time you were so crippled by anxiety that you couldn't leave your house?'
Thanks for this post Brutus, really useful and a fantastic, important perspective. This particular comment is something I've wondered about semantically. Given that a spectrum extends from zero to one, then the above must be true, so is the term spectrum something that needs changing? In no way defending that abhorrent statement, just wondering about language of classification!
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(Wading in) I think spectrum is a good term in that it makes people realise its not a ‘you’ve got X or you’ve got Y’ type situation - it makes people realise (hopefully) that there are shades of grey in the ‘defninitions’. Though there are probably many shades of grey or multiple spectra.
Of course its bad when the word or term is used pejoratively.... As an academic - most people where I work (myself included) are somewhere on some grade of scale :)
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If there is something I have learnt from the work I do it is that it is near impossible to place people on a sliding scale and that the over arching term ‘autism’ goes nowhere near describing the myriad of neurological differences that exist. If we just take sensory processing as an example the variance of sensitivities and needs from one individual to another,in the small cohort I work with, is massive. Not only is variance between individuals massive but each individuals’ sensory needs and sensitivity can change wildly in different situations/ environments. In diagnosis people are given a series of tests/ questions/ problems/ puzzles that then produce a score. Each person is very different, if you think Dustin Hoffman in Rainman is the only way a person with autism presents you’d be very wrong. Sure there are certain stock things we can all do that are ‘autism friendly’ eg. Use simple literal language, allow time for people to process information, keep things calm and quiet, make sure folk understand what is going to happen next etc. Etc. But I increasingly understand that a person centred and individualised approach is necessary for people who don’t fit into categorised boxes hence the use of ‘spectrum’ I guess. The spectrum is not on one frequency but across a range of frequencies with variance in ‘severity’, a 4 dimensional spectrum if you will.. :-\
Apologies this has very little to do with Honnold :off:
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...a 4 dimensional spectrum if you will.. :-\
See the spectrum wheel thingy just down from the top in this link:
https://happylearners.info/asd.html
My 12 year old daughter has had an autism diagnosis since junior school and appears very 'high functioning', she requires almost zero additional support at school yet there are certain areas where she would be considered much further along the spectrum. I think trying to give (or doubt) an autism diagnosis from simply meeting (or watching) someone is impossible in many cases.
We had many people (who knew us and our daughter well) express similar views to Sasquatch
...In my opinion (untrained) many of the diagnosis were because parents wanted a diagnosis, autism has a huge amount of funding, and it's an easy answer to give people. I say that because if we had wanted we could have easily had our daughter labeled that way from medical professionals in order to make sure she got the help she needed. In the 90's, every kid who had issues at school was ADD or ADHD. Now autism "spectrum" is becoming a catchall of a different kind. I think it's bullS^&*, and as Habrich mentioned it has alot to do with money.
although maybe more along the lines that she was simply a bit of a tricky child. During the period pre and immediately post diagnosis she was struggling with some really serious issues (I won't go into details on a public forum) a few of which only became apparent to us once she had her diagnosis and we discussed things with her a lot.
One of the things that is tricky is that 'high functioning' autistic kids are the ones that are the most hard to diagnose, the ones who most often avoid getting 'spotted' by teachers or parents and the ones who can get labled as having fussy parents i.e. not being autistic. Yet this same group, especially when undiagnosed, suffer from really high rates of self harm, eating disorders and suicide.
Although I have used functioning labels in this post they are really frowned upon by the autistic community as they can minimise the difficulties of autistic people with good language skills and severely underestimate the abilities of, for example, non-verbal autistics.
I think a lot of autistic people hate the comment that 'everybody is a bit on the spectrum'. Although many people deomonstrate some behaviours that could be classified on the spectrum, autism is a specific neurology, and 'a little bit autisitic' is equivalent to saying 'a little bit pregnant'. There is a vocal community of autistic adults and self advocates - I think it is important to listen carefully to what they have to say. For example, my daughter doesn't like it when she is described as having autism, she would say she is autistic - and I think this is pretty common in the autistic community. You wouldn't say a person suffered from gayness or lefthandedness...
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ps really looking forward to going to see the freesolo film, can't wait.
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Nice Post El Mocho, the wheel is a good visual for sure, it's certainly not a linear scale.
The 'classic' is a child that 'masks' their anxiety well at school, doesn't struggle academically and presents no behavioural issues at school. Having put a huge amount of effort into maintaining appearances at school they go home and have the mother of all meltdowns at home in the evening. Parents talk to school, school says there are no problems and start to draw conclusions about the parents.
Love my job and working with people that don't fit norms. However, schools and teachers could do much more to reduce ignorance, teach in a more inclusive manner and create more friendly environments.
Looking forwards to seeing that film also!
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Great post above Mr Mocho.
This is a great piece:
https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-27/edition-10/autism-myth-and-reality
Many behaviours associated with a lack of feeling are actually a way of coping with potentially being overcome through far greater sensitivity.
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Watched the dawn wall. Decent film, although feel like I've seen most of it in short clips over the years before. Probably really good if you haven't read his book and seen lots of the other films.
Amazing footage of pitch 15,wouldve been good to see.more detailed footage of some of the other hard pitches.
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FWIW, I think seeing Dawn Wall on the big screen def was a big part of its impact, much of the footage of el cap just wouldn't be the same on your telly/monitor.
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FWIW, I think seeing Dawn Wall on the big screen def was a big part of its impact, much of the footage of el cap just wouldn't be the same on your telly/monitor.
It’s funny because I think the story translates well to small screen because of the push, I really enjoyed seeing it on the big screen but the major points were in darkness. Headphones are more important than anything else.
Looking forward to seeing the Solo film next week.
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Free Solo, holy shit :o
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Free Solo, holy shit :o
The footage of the boulder problem has to be the best bit of climbing footage I have ever seen. Fucking incredible. And his grin when he gets the jugs at the end...
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Footage is amazing. Shame about the naff music on the ascent.
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Footage is amazing. Shame about the naff music on the ascent.
Yes it lurched into emotive cinema for the masses but was otherwise excellent.
Strange thought at the end; i cant think of another film that is more or less wholly exactly as ive expected it to be.
The conversation on here about autism is out of place to me now. He seems to be a product of his environment. The short backstory bit with school, his mum and dad; that covers it.
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Ditto on much of that. I did think the editing was very good on the first half (which I know bugger all about so feel free to weigh in), several steps above anything I've seen in a climbing film before.
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It did seem to have a load of social attitudes that had escaped from the 1950's.
"Imagine what he could achieve if it wasn't for women holding him back with their desire for soft furnishings and houses."
and if you take a beginner climbing and they lower you off the end of the rope that's your problem not theirs.
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I saw both of these at the cinema.
Don't get me wrong, Free Solo is worth watching, but I thought Dawn Wall was altogether much stronger. It had a clear and continuous narrative and the storytelling was much better. Free Solo feels a bit like some random bits of Alex's family and friends, watching him eat, watching him be a bit odd, watching him buy a fridge, watch him prep on the route a bit - followed by the obviously gripping ascent footage.
I was ready to cringe at the presentation of soloing and risk to a non-climbing audience, and cringe I did, but not as much as I thought I would. I don't understand why anybody would say he definitely has autism of some sort - he seems to be thoughtful, highly rational, an introvert but no more than that. Some of the overheard comments in the packed cinema were disappointing. "He's a robot"; "he's mental", they said. I expected better of climbers. Surely any climber, at whatever level, knows what it's like to take a risk on the rock or to want to solo something? Maybe it's not the same for those who come to the sport through the indoor wall (sorry for cliched characterisation of wall-bred climbers)? He is still fundamentally recognisable as a climber, albeit an exceptional climber in both the sense that he is outstandingly good and also atypical.
The bit where they stick him in an MRI is something I'd be intrigued to know more about. They ascertained that his amygdala is less active than most people's - but is this something that he was born with or is that something that can be trained?
I thought the juxtapositions between him and his girlfriend made for hilarious and uplifting cinema. She seems nice, but dating Alex must be a cross to bear (at times) for anyone.
The interviews with Tommy Caldwell and Peter Croft were fantastic. You very much get the impression that Tommy thinks Alex's early death is inevitable and he's just enjoying the time he has left while it lasts. Pete Croft reveals that he has soloed The Rostrum 50-60 times 8)
Footage of the Boulder Problem is rancid. Horrible horrible horrible. But sooooo goooood.
I googled his girlfriend and was amused to find that she is a "Life and Transition Coach":
Sanni McCandless, CPC, ELI-MP is a transition coach for outdoor-focused individuals who want to create more tailored, intentional lifestyles and find agency in their own lives. In her work, she helps people overcome the doubts and concerns that constantly get in the way of living fearlessly and feeling fulfilled. Sanni challenges clients to communicate more honestly with those around them, stop making fear-based decisions, and achieve goals that have been on the back burner for too long.
Coaching with Sanni is not about receiving advice or getting mentored. It's about establishing where you'd like to be and working with someone to tackle whatever it is that's holding you back.
So she basically teaches people how to sack off their family and friends and become a dirtbag. Packages start from $150 for an initial assessment and hour's conversation, up to $900 for the whole hog. It makes me wonder who Fred Beckey's Life and Transition Coach was.
If you watch it, be sure to put your fingers in your ears before the end credits music plays, lest you throw up on the spot.
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If you watch it, be sure to put your fingers in your ears before the end credits music plays, lest you throw up on the spot.
can confirm, was violently sick.
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I thought the juxtapositions between him and his girlfriend made for hilarious and uplifting cinema. She seems nice, but dating Alex must be a cross to bear (at times) for anyone.
The interviews with Tommy Caldwell and Peter Croft were fantastic. You very much get the impression that Tommy thinks Alex's early death is inevitable and he's just enjoying the time he has left while it lasts. Pete Croft reveals that he has soloed The Rostrum 50-60 times 8)
Footage of the Boulder Problem is rancid. Horrible horrible horrible. But sooooo goooood.
He must be a nightmare to live with. But at least he's honest; if sometimes disarmingly so. In particular where he he flatly says to Sanni's face that he didn't see a relationship as an obligation to maximise lifespan. Both of them must think and evaluate things a lot to work through conversations like that.
How cool was Peter Croft?! I also liked the bit you mention Will. I noticed his eyes flicked towards the camera during the conversation with Honnold; seemed to be an unspoken acknowledgement of the conflict at the heart of the film.
Wild wasn't it. Jimmy Chin looked visibly stressed throughout the entire film. The relief on his topping out must have been immense.
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Thoroughly enjoyed it! Great insight into Alex and thought he came across really well. Loved the ascent footage...
As an aside, it was nice to be at the pictures with some friends and a load of people I vaguely know rather than just with my wife and a load of strangers! Very social experience :)
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Yeah, Peter Croft just keeps getting cooler. There's that bit early on when they list how 'everyone' who has done a lot of soloing has died, but no mention of Croft. Then up he pops and confirms he's done more than all the others put together. Shame he didn't get to mention what he did in the afternoon after setting an El Cap speed record. Not hangboarding! Which reminds me Ned and Dan must be well chuffed at the product placement. Hope you got the wet n' dry on that one lads.
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Hard for me to make a fair comparison between them because I only saw Dawn Wall at home. Both amazing production values but Free Solo seemed to take the edge on that front. Also the higher stakes give Free Solo the extra drama and weight. Couldn’t help thinking Ondra pissed it whilst watching Dawn Wall, even though that has no bearing on the personal story. The Freerider solo is unmatched and incomprehensible to pretty much everyone. Those few minutes on the crux of the Boulder problem must be the most outrageous moment in any sport ever. Bonkers footage that, says it all when it’s hard to watch even though you know he survives. Couldn’t help thinking how crazy fit he must have been, doing that enduro corner at the end after all that. Not like he got a rest belaying someone up like when your partnered up. And doesn’t sound like he chilled on the ledges much. Mad fucker.
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Irresposible of the filmmakers not to show Honnold brushing his tickmarks off I thought. ;)
I’m glad other people noticed the music. I was sat there miserable thinking “God, they’ve really phoned in the music for the best bit and I bet there’s no one else in here who cares”.
That’s literally the only nit I can pick with Free Solo (haven’t seen Dawn Wall yet)- I came out of the cinema wanting to make more films, climb in Yosemite and go soloing, which I’m sure would make Jimmy Chin happy to hear.
I’ve never really had much respect for him due to things like that GQ shoot and cheesy North Face infomercials but I really changed my mind after watching Free Solo- it was so good to see a big US climbing film that wasn’t delivered in the set-up filled, fake, played-for-laughs style of the Sender films. Most of the good things I could say about it appear higher up this thread but I was most impressed by the way they handled the near-impossible task of making it enjoyable for climbers and non-climbers alike.
I can’t imagine the stress involved either. Even without the “I might film my mate dying” element there must have been crazy amounts of National Geographic’s money involved and I can’t imagine that if Honnold had pulled out/ done it without the cameras/ fallen to his doom they would have been cool with not getting it back.
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I would have used that Danger Zone tune from Top Gun for the send.
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There's that bit early on when they list how 'everyone' who has done a lot of soloing has died, but no mention of Croft. Then up he pops and confirms he's done more than all the others put together.
This exactly, it went past almost completely unmentioned that Croft didn’t fit into the earlier hyperbole.
I thought Croft’s words around soloing for the right reasons was one of the most powerful bits in the film, and would have been a massive bit of foreshadowing if we didn’t know there was a happy ending.
I thought the bits with Caldwell also showed him in a light that maybe wasn’t seen in Dawn Wall (and to a lesser extent his book), where all adversity was faced with stoicism. It really was moving to see the love he had for Honnold.
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I would have used that Danger Zone tune from Top Gun for the send.
:D
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I thought Free Solo was one of the better films I’ve seen in a while, not just a good climbing film.
It’s slightly baggy in the middle but only a little and there’s so much narrative interest in there. I loved how it was really a film about what it’s like to know and love someone like Honnold as much as a document of the ascent.
For a climbing film to touch on subjects like the ethics of extreme sports documentaries; the extreme calm of Honnold’s mind; his unusual and uplifting relationship; the tension between happiness and achievement, made it such a rich experience. And of top of that, the final ascent is the most gut wrenching thing I’ve watched in years.
Five stars. Would watch again.
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The bit where they stick him in an MRI is something I'd be intrigued to know more about. They ascertained that his amygdala is less active than most people's - but is this something that he was born with or is that something that can be trained?
Apparently it can be trained. A thinning of the amygdala, and correlating reduction in perceived stress, is one of the consequences of mindful meditation practice.
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Crikey, not sure I’d want a thinned amygdala. I knew meditation had to be bad for you
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The bit where they stick him in an MRI is something I'd be intrigued to know more about.
lmgtfya
http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-strange-brain-of-the-worlds-greatest-solo-climber
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The bit where they stick him in an MRI is something I'd be intrigued to know more about.
lmgtfya
http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-strange-brain-of-the-worlds-greatest-solo-climber
Are you standing in to replace Slackline? Can you put the relevant bits in a quote box and follow it with an exasperated emoji, please?
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Great post above Mr Mocho.
This is a great piece:
https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-27/edition-10/autism-myth-and-reality
Many behaviours associated with a lack of feeling are actually a way of coping with potentially being overcome through far greater sensitivity.
That's a really good article Dave.
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However, they tip toed around the fact that he's blatantly got ASD, presumably because he's not had a formal diagnosis? It would have been really interesting for this to be explored in more detail and would have taken the film to another level IMO.
So, my take on this, speaking as someone who's on the autistic spectrum (I have a piece of paper to say so and everything), used to work with autistic kids and wrote a book in the field (there's my credentials) --
I've certainly wondered about Honnold, and there's a lot of stuff in the film that I find extremely recognizable. Though there's a lot of stuff that can occur with other types of neuroatypicality too -- people with ADHD can have some similar social issues, for example. And there are some indications from research that autistic people may be prone to have over-active amygdalas, if anything. So I'm trying not to jump to conclusions here.
I think there's a lot of it (neuroatypicality) about in the climbing world in general; as a group, we skew weird. And Honnold's clearly got an unusual brain in some ways.
Apparently he has casually dropped a reference to being "somewhere on the autism spectrum":
http://www.dailycamera.com/recreation/ci_31061205/chris-weidner-all-or-nothing-outrageous-simplicity-alex-honnold
But I don't know how seriously that was meant, if it's a label he particularly identifies with or wants to dig into.
Much as I'd like to claim him for the A Team, I'm actually glad the film didn't get into this, because I don't see how it could have been done without coming across as reductive, offering (possible) autism as an explanation of why or how he does what he does.
Which it really isn't. At most, it might be an explanation of why he's socially awkward and blunt and "quirky" in specific ways, but it definitely doesn't confer mystic soloing powers.
Also, the film has to spend enough time trying to explain climbing to non-climbers; imagine if it had to explain autism as well!
And oh god, think of all the clueless and stupid mainstream media reporting by people who know nothing about climbing, then imagine having that but about autism too. I can guarantee you'd have "He's autistic so he can't feel fear!" (I read an article published last year in Outside that claimed that autistic children can't feel pain), "He's autistic so he can't have human connections!" and "Soloing is his special savant power."
(And then I'd implode from repressed homicidal rage. So probably best not.)
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Thanks. Good post.
Like you I think they got the balance right by not following the theme any further - the evident social awkwardness and enough clues were there. Like you say if they had not would it have over complicated and distracted the film but many viewers might have walked away with wrong of X+Y=Z assumptions.
However, one way it may have helped him as a soloist was that Honnold seemingly reacted logically rather than emotionally to Steck’s death. I know that Paul Williams death reined in mine and others soloing - even though the risks were always obvious they are more visceral when someone you know dies - though maybe not for Honnold.
Regarding someone else who has ‘a piece of paper’ (clinical psychiatrist) was reportedly overheard as saying ‘classic case of autism’ just 20 mins into the film.
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The bit where they stick him in an MRI is something I'd be intrigued to know more about.
lmgtfya
http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-strange-brain-of-the-worlds-greatest-solo-climber
Got to add this, having transcribed it for a friend because I think it's so entertaining (and as plausible a scientific interpretation as any) -- this is Honnold on the Power Company Climbing podcast ep 59, being asked about the fMRI and giving his personal take on the state of his amygdala:
"So then the question is, is that like nature or nurture? Like, do I just not have an amygdala -- I mean I do physically have one, but does it not work, or did it stop working because I've like slowly bludgeoned it to death through like years of soloing?"
(Interviewer interjection) "Training --"
"Yeah well I prefer to think of it as stepping on my amygdala and grinding it into dust with the heel of my boot. But, um, no, I bet the reality is sort of half and half, that like, I was probably less sensitive -- you know, I bet my amygdala when I was born was already a little bit shrivelled and a little bit tired and just like not quite as responsive as maybe the average amygdala, and then through ten years of consistently pushing myself as a soloist, um, I think my amygdala just gave up and died."
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However, one way it may have helped him as a soloist was that Honnold seemingly reacted logically rather than emotionally to Steck’s death. I know that Paul Williams death reined in mine and others soloing - even though the risks were always obvious they are more visceral when someone you know dies - though maybe not for Honnold.
Yeah, it definitely comes across that his particularly logical approach to certain things (and his whole personality in general) shapes how he handles soloing.
Regarding someone else who has ‘a piece of paper’ (clinical psychiatrist) was reportedly overheard as saying ‘classic case of autism’ just 20 mins into the film.
Not surprised. Personally, I'm kind of wary of armchair diagnosis on principle (even though at least two people have been able to armchair-diagnose me just on the basis of chatting at the climbing wall) -- but that's partly because it's often so tempting. Especially when it comes to claiming cool people for one's "own" team.
So I'm trying to leave it at saying that there's stuff that some of us will find extremely recognizable.
Semi-tangential -- one thing I liked about the film as a portrait of a soloist (and also if you view it as a portrait of a possibly-autistic person) is how connected it shows Honnold as being, in contrast to the classic Soloist As Lone Wolf Superman thing.
He is introverted and a loner in some ways, he is socially awkward and clearly having to work at learning how to communicate about emotions and handle being in a serious relationship, he's doing this thing which is on one level supremely solitary -- but at the same time, he is connected to all this other people, he's got these friendships with Caldwell and Chin and Croft, for example (all of whom obviously care about him a lot), he's in an intimate relationship and trying to make it work, and you've kind of got the film crew as on-screen representatives of the climbing community he's embedded in, who are all pretty invested in him not dying (and he's personally invested in not dying too, but is additionally conscious of the potential harm to them if they have to watch him die).
I thought that was much more interesting and nuanced than the usual.
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https://youtu.be/qvsBz7hbIj8
Some interesting, and surprising, comments from Honnold, in this interview with Lance Armstrong.
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Some interesting, and surprising, comments from Honnold, in this interview with Lance Armstrong.
[/quote]
Honnold's face when LA talks about having kids and decreased performance ;)
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Off to see Free Solo tomorrow night. It eventually arrived in the backwater that is Edinburgh :icon_welcome:
Canny wait
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showed it twice in Aberdeen, first time i was busy, second time they didn't publicise, now busy for third showing too.
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Now nominated for an Oscar!!
https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/free-solo-nominated-oscar/
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Bit of an odd question but is the Dawn Wall a loud film (in terms of sound track, power screams etc.)?
It's showing in Leeds at The Climbing Lab this Friday but I'm looking after a friends dog for the weekend. They are happy for me to bring a dog into the wall whilst the showing is on but if it's a loud film I don't think it would be fair on him.
He's very well behaved, quiet so no problems with disruption - I'm just worried about the noise...
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There’s lots of swelling music etc, and it was relatively loud in the cinema (not Nolan loud or anything). I’ve not been to the Lab but I’m assuming that they don’t have a full Dolby surround with subwoofers, so I reckon the doggo will be fine.
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subwoofers, so I reckon the doggo will be fine.
lol.
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On the subject Honnold's social awkwardness and fear response, I found this BBC podcast interview very interesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06y7htv
The key bit that stood out for me was that he views "not being scared" as a practicable skill and just... practices. It sounds like a lot of his social awkwardness could be attributed to his family dynamic during his childhood without having to resort to any labels.
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.. he views "not being scared" as a practicable skill and just... practices. It sounds like a lot of his social awkwardness could be attributed to his family dynamic during his childhood without having to resort to any labels.
Totally relate to that. Practicing maintaining function while feeling scared.
There's a difference between "feeling fear" and "behaving scared".
I'd suggest Alex means practicing not behaving scared, and that he has grown accustomed to feeling fear.
There are times when I'm reminded just how much fear I used to feel when soloing, but I was the one determining the outcome (at least hoping to!).
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How ironic the opening quote :
"Part of the mythology that they’ve been teaching you is that you have no power. Power is not brute force and money; power is in your spirit. Power is in your soul. It is what your ancestors, your old people gave you. Power is in the earth; it is in your relationship to the earth.“
And THAT is what our pursuit can help us all understand.
Climbing is one sport in which the yin/yang approaches to problems can beautifully co-exist - wanted to avoid the unnecessary gender reference.
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I got half way through. Seems to me like like a lot of over interpretation and possibly trying to fight battles with the wrong people. Id argue that the millions of normal tourists driving laps round yosemite are more likely to be doing more to destroy and ignore the history/spirit/whatever of the place. Or maybe being a white male cis climber im just a cunt?
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One of my female friends was going on a bit of a rant once, saying that it was a disgrace that the patriarchy had stolen the word "cunt" to use as a swear word, and that it was about time women took the word back. I said that while they were about it, could they take "minge" as well? This did not go down well.
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Why can’t men and women both use the word cunt? Cunt.
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https://www.thewhoresofyore.com/kates-journal/a-nasty-name-for-a-nasty-thing-a-history-of-cunt
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Why can’t men and women both use the word cunt? Cunt.
Prime material for a fresh thread on UKC. Fiend - when you’re un-banned you know what to do :)
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I prefer to use the other four letter C word.
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There’s lots of swelling music etc, and it was relatively loud in the cinema (not Nolan loud or anything). I’ve not been to the Lab but I’m assuming that they don’t have a full Dolby surround with subwoofers, so I reckon the doggo will be fine.
I forgot to reply to this after work, sorry!
But thanks for the response, all went okay except the pooch kept farting....
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Was she in the same cinema as you?
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Saw the premiere of Free Solo in Kendal last night. It is the most moving and inspirational film I’ve ever seen on lots of different levels beside the obvious.
I'm a bit late to the party, and hadn't really had any interest in seeing this (nor the Dawn Wall film). However, last night I ended up at The Palace in Longridge 'being sociable'.
I'd agree with Shark on this one. It has to be the best climbing film I've ever seen by a fair margin. From my reading about it, that isn't what I'd imagined 'the move' pitch to look like.
:o :o :o
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Free Solo won the best documentary Bafta last night. :thumbsup:
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From my reading about it, that isn't what I'd imagined 'the move' pitch to look like.
:o :o :o
For entertainment purposes: Honnold set a replica of the Boulder Problem at Vaux Eas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glwPXPluouc
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Saw the premiere of Free Solo in Kendal last night. It is the most moving and inspirational film I’ve ever seen on lots of different levels beside the obvious.
I'm a bit late to the party, and hadn't really had any interest in seeing this (nor the Dawn Wall film). However, last night I ended up at The Palace in Longridge 'being sociable'.
:o :o :o
I hope you stood for the national anthem Paul! ? :blink:
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I did, with my mug of tea.
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Backtracking to an earlier topic in the discussion -- from an interview with Vasarhelyi and Chin (who's known him for a decade):
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/02/free-solo-risks-falling-oscar-best-documentary-winner-1202044480/
"While Honnold has never been formally diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, the filmmakers suspect he falls there somewhere."
Also, people may appreciate this, in which Honnold enjoys the shit out of terrible terrible Hollywood climbing scenes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qSiEKntQA
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For any Yorkshire peeps, looks like Free Solo is on at the IMAX in Bradford in the coming days.
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...... and in the National Geographic Channel on March 3rd (I think)
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Well that’s a good effort, just won the Oscar too!
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National Geographic channel
March 3rd
2000 hrs
Happily watch the whole thing again!
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Watched Free Solo last night :jaw:
Even though you know he's still (currently) alive, absolutely, nerve-wracking, sweaty-palm, footage.
But more so, a really interesting film about Alex, his mindset, relationships, support network.
Incredible stuff.
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In 20 years climbing films have gone from my treasured worn out VHS copy of Stick It, to something that just won an Oscar. Quite the change. Off topic: I absolutely loved Stick It. Would be amazing if it made it onto the internet at some point. I'd buy it.
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Finally showing at a decent time this weekend in ABZ. So keen to see it.
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In 20 years climbing films have gone from my treasured worn out VHS copy of Stick It, to something that just won an Oscar. Quite the change. Off topic: I absolutely loved Stick It. Would be amazing if it made it onto the internet at some point. I'd buy it.
Seek and ye shall find (no idea if this actually works though)
https://www.slackjaw.co.uk/shop/shop.html#ShopStickIt (https://www.slackjaw.co.uk/shop/shop.html#ShopStickIt)
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DVD, innit. No DVD player :(
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Finally getting to see this on Wednesday at the local indie. Have they got the usual trailers etc beforehand? just trying to figure out timings, to either squeeze in a climbing session either before or after.
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Kind of related: watched "Valley Uprising" for the first time last time and was pretty underwhelmed. It seemed very one dimensional.
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Some good segments and history, but presentation was a bit weak, style overrode quality.
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style overrode quality.
Yep. Warren Harding's mum was good value though.
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Finally getting to see this on Wednesday at the local indie. Have they got the usual trailers etc beforehand? just trying to figure out timings, to either squeeze in a climbing session either before or after.
That's down to the cinema, give them a call. My local indy played their own trailers. The cinema in the next town went straight to the film without trailers.
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Duncan did a great review of it on here just after it came out. (https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6004.msg463589.html#msg463589)
After I watched it with my other half she said “everyone in that film is so proud of how little they’ve contributed to society” :lol: a withering but valid critique of the whole dirtbag/ #vanlife ethos.
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Dawn wall on Netflix now
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Free Solo 7/10, some unsorted random thoughts.
Free Solo must be the first climbing movie I've seen since Jean-Paul Janssen's extraordinary films about Edlinger that has used Foley artists to recreate the sounds of climbing. As it is well known that an iPhone-movie with high-quality sound looks better than anything captured with a real film camera but with cheap mikes, or – worse – sound from location, Free Solo looks incomparable better than almost all previous climbing films. Well planned shots from exposed pitches in Yosemite helps of course, but that's nothing we have not seen before.
The cinematography alone is neither enough to hold my, nor (I suspect) the general audience attention for the duration of the film. Instead the film was held together by the strength of character of the protagonist (Alex) and his sidekick (Tommy – who seems to be the only fully sane person depicted) in this fairly simple rendition of Overcoming the Monster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Basic_Plots#Overcoming_the_Monster). In the end the Monster is indeed defeated, to sweeping music. We are led to believe that this is a good thing – even if the protagonist himself seems to be more worried about failing in front of the camera than falling to his actual death.
The movie is clearly not a documentary about Free Soloing the normal route on El Capitan — but rather about how the protagonist sets out to defeat the mighty Capitan. Before seeing the film, I thought I wanted to see the former film, but judging by how successful the story-telling was and how unsuccessful American film-makers usually are at putting sporting achievement into context I am happy that it was the latter.
All of the climbing footage — of which they must have had tons, considering that they showed just a few seconds of a solo of Rivieres Poupre! — is made to serve the story. Almost all of it works seamlessly, and even if I'm sure that most climbers found it uncomfortably cheesy when Tommy Caldwell pretended to slip off the boulder problem pitch I suspect it was very effective on the general audience to hammer home the point that the crux is difficult and insecure.
How you feel about the film has probably a lot to do with how you feel about free soloing. I am totally fine with free soloing, and it was indeed Janssen's La Vie au bout des doigts that made me want to be a rock climber (at that time there was not a great deal of climbing in Sweden, and none where I lived), and I personally think freesoloing is one of the healthiest things people who need extreme amount of sensory input can do. Some people are not fine with free soloing, and they will not like this movie as it will clearly make more people want to free solo.
As it was for Beowulf, I am sure Alex will face even stronger monsters in the future.
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Thanks for the heads-up. Watched the first hour of it last night: way better than I expected. More interesting & informative TC biopic, less trouser-filling falling off on copperheads.
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I finally saw the Dawn Wall last night. I was surprised by how much it felt like a standard Reel Rock film in comparison to Free Solo. In some ways it felt a bit caught between being a film for normal viewers and a film for climbers- the complexity of the siege story, free/ aid differences etc. made it hard to simplify for the former (makes you realise how much of a once-in-a-lifetime chance the Free Solo creators had and how well they took it) and the need to simplify it all made it suffer a bit for the latter.
If it was done in the usual slapstick Reel Rock style they could have had a field day with the media circus element for example but they obviously held back ‘cos they didn’t want to alienate the Netflix audience.
I enjoyed it though. John Long was born to narrate this kind of thing. :lol:
Free Solo must be the first climbing movie I've seen since Jean-Paul Janssen's extraordinary films about Edlinger that has used Foley artists to recreate the sounds of climbing.
I realise that I’m setting you up for a characteristically pompous confirmation of your highbrow standards here but you can’t have watched many recent major US climbing films. ;)
As it is well known that an iPhone-movie with high-quality sound looks better than anything captured with a real film camera but with cheap mikes, or – worse – sound from location
I’m confused by this. What’s your definition of “sound from location”?
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John Long was born to narrate this kind of thing. :lol:
Yeah, one non-climber friend who watched (and loved) the film was hugely entertained by him.
I had the great joy of springing this photo on her:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/02/18/obituaries/18bridwell-obit2/17bridwell-elcapitan-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
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John Long was born to narrate this kind of thing. :lol:
Yeah, one non-climber friend who watched (and loved) the film was hugely entertained by him.
I had the great joy of springing this photo on her:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/02/18/obituaries/18bridwell-obit2/17bridwell-elcapitan-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
My newly climbing girlfriend loved both movies. Caldwell and Long leaving an impression on her. So we sat and watched Valley Uprising the other day - might be worth getting your friend to watch it 🙂
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I enjoyed it though. John Long was born to narrate this kind of thing. :lol:
Chris Schulte should be next in line
http://www.niallgrimes.com/jam-crack-climbing-podcast/jcpc-006-the-view-from-dead-horse-point
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I realise that I’m setting you up for a characteristically pompous confirmation of your highbrow standards here but you can’t have watched many recent major US climbing films. ;)
Guilty as charged :/ There is only so much hyperbole I can take.
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It is funny how much of a difference the big screen makes. I watched DW on a big screen and FS at home on my laptop with a dodgy stream.
I was blown away by DW, while FS lived maybe 60% up the expectations I had!
The most interesting thing is that comparing the two characters, TC felt as he could be a close friend, and AH like some sort of extraterrestrial creature - difficult to truly relate to. I wonder how much of this impression is due to:
-real life differences between the 2
-my own experiences being closer to one story than the other
-the filmmakers' choices
-the big screen making you feel more involved
?
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In the unlikely event that anyone hasn't seen Free Solo, it's on Channel 4 next week:
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/free-solo