UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => shootin' the shit => Topic started by: James Malloch on January 14, 2024, 04:38:51 pm
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Obviously very difficult to do much online, but my dad has been ill for the past 8 weeks.
It started when he had his covid and flu jab together. He got ill and has been rough ever since (jabs may obviously just be a coincidence).
He is 72 and pretty fit but has lost a stone in weight in the last 5 weeks (12.5 to 11.5 stone). He cant stomach food (managed 2 roast potatoes on Christmas Day, but is mainly eating yoghurt/liquids and prunes.
He also gets pain in his side from lying down so he is getting up about 1am and sitting on the sofa as being upright seems to get rid of the pain.
He has had loads of blood tests, chest xray, and most recently an ultrasound checking organs. Everything is coming up fine other than the ultrasound suggested there was a lot more gas in his system than usual.
His GP has said to give it a few weeks to see if it sorts itself out which seems like a crazy plan of action to me when nothing has improved for so long.
He has just started going for a few runs and swing again which feel fine, but his mood is very low and he is clearly in a lot of discomfort.
He is the stoic, won’t phone to complain kind of person.
I don't know all the symptoms but does anything jump our from the pain when lying, complete loss of appetite, feeling sick if trying to eat, pain in side from lying and probably build up of gas?
I think he needs to keep pressing the GP to try and work out what’s up….
I assume anyone would need more information than this, but I thought I’d ask just in case!
Edit- we wondered about sending probiotic tablets to try get his gut health up, in case it is something to do with digestion. But no idea if that’s worth it.
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Obligatory disclaimer that I am not a doctor, but it's ringing possible bells for something like SIBO, maybe? Or IBS, or Crohn's, or any of that bunch of GI tract nasties.
e.g. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth/symptoms-causes/syc-20370168
Has he been seen by a gastroenterologist?
Someone dropping weight that fast and being in pain that's stopping him from sleeping doesn't seem like "give it a few weeks and see if it goes away" territory to me (unless it seems to be getting better on its own, which you don't mention).
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The only thing I would say is that if he's a stoic is it possible that he hasn't explained to the GP the extent or severity? I have older relatives who are dreadful for this.
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As someone who took a while to get something abdominal diagnosed, keep kicking off. Everyone is too busy and the only person you can rely to fight for you is you. Get more things tested etc etc.. Worth remembering diagnosis doesn't mean you will instantly be treated!
Good luck!
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I've been told by hospital doctors to bring my other half along to hospital appointments before. I've asked friends who are doctors why that is. They've told me that, more often than not, it is the partner who provides vital information when they are taking a history. And it is the partner who is in a state of mind to then better understand what the doctor is saying.
A GP has to first get a handle as to what is going on before ever getting to the stage of having such hospital appointments. I don't know how normal it is to take someone else with you to a GP appointment, but my guess is that the GP would welcome it for just the same reasons as with hospital doctors (I'm happy to be corrected).
My n=1 personal experience is that it can be crucial to be very persistent to get a diagnosis.
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Based on my recent experience, sounds like it could possibly be https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gastroparesis/ which is what the doctors think I have.
I was given metaclopraminde for it, which seems to help, but still no appetite. Push for as much tests as you can get; there is the possibility it could be something nasty..
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I've been told by hospital doctors to bring my other half along to hospital appointments before. I've asked friends who are doctors why that is. They've told me that, more often than not, it is the partner who provides vital information when they are taking a history. And it is the partner who is in a state of mind to then better understand what the doctor is saying.
I have various friends with chronic medical conditions (which often took a while to get a correct diagnosis) who also recommend bringing a partner/friend/relative along to appointments, for a different reason -- unfortunately, certain doctors may be prone to dismiss symptoms which are hard to measure (like pain or loss of appetite) if they don't fit into an obvious diagnosis, and just write them off as stress or hypochondria or aging or whatever.
For a few, if you persist in having something they can't easily diagnose and fix, that's a wilful challenge to their authority, and pushing for more testing can be a quick way to get labelled as a Problem Patient.
Having someone who is not the patient along to reiterate the problem and keep pushing can be a way to get around that.
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I’m not at all anti-vax but vaccine injury definitely seems to be a thing that leads to long covid type symptoms (which is why I’ve heard of it). Your dad’s symptoms don’t sound like typical long covid/vaccine injury though so perhaps it’s just a coincidence?
My experience is that yes, you will have to push doctors for a diagnosis even when it seems quite serious and life-affecting, and some of them can be quite unpleasant in the process. Remember, a doctor isn’t just for treating ill health, but also for perpetuating existing systems of social inequality and hierarchy!
Anyhow, rant over, someone accompanying your dad would probably be a very good idea.
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I'm only repeating what others have said, but having twice been the partner of someone struggling to get a diagnosis and then eventually hearing bad news, I can't over emphasise the importance of someone being there with your dad at any meeting with a doctor, whenever possible.
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Remember, a doctor isn’t just for treating ill health, but also for perpetuating existing systems of social inequality and hierarchy!
what?
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Remember, a doctor isn’t just for treating ill health, but also for perpetuating existing systems of social inequality and hierarchy!
what?
General poorer outcomes for women, ethnic minorities, lower income people. Diseases which mostly affect women get much worse treatment (I know, I have one!). Women’s pain getting taken less seriously or symptoms being psychologised rather than treated. Sometimes presenting a doctor with a thing they don’t understand is dangerous for the patient, as it upsets the authority and hence social standing of the doctor.
If this sounds weird or extreme then you are lucky, bask in it.
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I’m not disagreeing with your poorer outcomes statement, but to summary that as:
“Doctors are there to perpetuate inequality”
Is perhaps a bit of a leap?
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All this stuff is well known and shown in research; if they were entirely about evidence and patient health then they’d take it on board, surely? See also the sorry history of post viral illness, which is also not particularly evidence based, and pits patient outcomes against medical preference.
It’s worth highlighting the difference between their intention (which isn’t this) and their overall role (which might be, and perhaps because of incentives whose setting is outside the purview of individual doctors).
Anyhow, this is derailing James’ original and urgent question.
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I'm sure lots of us know doctors in a personal capacity. The idea that the vast majority don't take poorer outcomes seriously is really wrong. (edited to be less confrontational!) I know you've had a different experience Sean and I fully respect that but I dont think it's fair to tar all with the same brush. Agree it's derailing the thread but I thought that was important to say.
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There are plenty of people who would say exactly the same about the police as SM says about doctors. But this forum is probably less likely to be used by people of a similar social class and outlook to police officers, and more likely to be sceptical of police work (whilst agreeing that many individual police officers are dedicated to their jobs.) “People like us” is a powerful blinder.
I’m not tarring all with the same brush, but in my view and experience poor behaviour is way more common than you’d expect. It’s also a bit more than personal behaviour, institutional norms surely play a role and also general political and social settings are important. Note also that I made a distinction between individual intention and social role.
I would obviously have written exactly what you wrote a few years ago, but now I wouldn’t. White, healthy(ish), middle class, educated men have traditionally in our societies been the slowest to pick up on systemic injustice. Intellectually we all know this, but the prospect of very poor treatment from the people tasked with our care is scary, and it’s easy to retreat to comfort zones. This is not just personal experience but very widely shared amongst some patient groups. We just don’t tell others that often because it’s not worth our effort. (You don’t believe us anyhow! :tumble:) But… UKB is a pretty respectful forum so it’s all cool.
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The police comparison did actually occur to me as I was writing the post, and I take the point. I think I would write the same sentence about police; I think the vast majority of police are decent people who take their responsibilities seriously. I would also say that, broadly speaking, there are more problems with the police force in the UK (specifically the Met, really) than there are with the medical profession. Maybe this is unconscious bias, I don't know.
In both examples structural /institutional issues are the real problem rather than individuals. Bad actors are enabled by poor systems. At root, a lot of these issues are caused by decades of underfunding. Obviously that's not an excuse in the slightest for poor behaviour experienced by anyone at the hands of police or doctors.
I dont actually think we disagree all that much re social injustice and I understand why your tone is perhaps sharper than mine would be given your experience. I just see first hand how hard doctors work and the shit they have to deal with so thought I would reply. :)
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Fwiw two close relatives had cancer and survived thanks to the skills of their doctors, so I’m pretty grateful for them in that respect. I also visited a covid ward (not as a patient) in 2020 so saw how professional the staff there were under intense pressure and real risk to themselves.
My own view is that underfunding is very serious but that these issues existed way before 2010, and in other much better funded healthcare systems.
Taking the police as an example, I’m sure the officers in the Rochdale child abuse scandal took their duties towards the victims of crime extremely seriously. But if you read the Casey report it shows that those officers simply did not consider the girls in the case as victims. By excluding them from the “circle of victims” the police officers could act professionally and treat the girls terribly with no dissonance on their part. Obviously this is wrong to those of us on the outside, but it went on for a long time so it perhaps wasn’t as clear to those caught up in it (apart from the pesky local women’s group mentioned in the report, but we were talking about entrenched hierarchies).
I think some doctors want the best for their patients whilst simultaneously excluding some people from the circle of patients. Minimising pain or psychologising physical illness effectively do just this, allowing the doctor to treat “real” patients and ignore others quite easily. The new NICE guidelines on ME quite clearly tell doctors that some of their patients may have previously experienced disbelief and prejudice (their exact words, not mine) from healthcare professionals. Think about that for a moment - prejudice against someone with a disease. It’s as logical as prejudice over skin colour. But if you pretend the disease doesn’t exist you can exclude a difficult case from being a patient and go back to treating real patients like the good person one surely is. And no one’s authority is thrown into question or doubt.
As for prevalence, I am not confident to say whether these issues are more or less than in the police, or even how one would go about measuring this.
Also - sorry James.
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I think some doctors want the best for their patients whilst simultaneously excluding some people from the circle of patients. Minimising pain or psychologising physical illness effectively do just this, allowing the doctor to treat “real” patients and ignore others quite easily.
I can only imagine how tough it must be to be suffering from a severe illness that falls outside what the medical profession adequately comprehends. I realise that in many such cases, the disease has no more psychological component than do typical well-understood diseases.
However, perhaps the most stigmatised patients, who are most in need of more solidarity, are those who are incapacitated by actual psychosomatic disease. In some such cases, they are as severely ill as people with extreme physical or "classic" mental illness. This was brought home to me by this Radio interview with someone in that field of medicine https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000112j (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000112j)
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General poorer outcomes for women, ethnic minorities, lower income people.
All this stuff is well known and shown in research; if they were entirely about evidence and patient health then they’d take it on board, surely?
Like you say, this is a huge problem. I heard about an initiative to try and improve GI cancer outcomes in South Yorkshire. Apparently less privileged people go to the doctors far less often. They attend pharmacies at least as often as privileged people though. The initiative was to analyse sales by pharmacists to alert when someone was buying over-the-counter medicines in a pattern that indicated they might have GI cancer. The pharmacist could then speak to the patient about it.
The GI cancer specialist doctor who set this up and who was talking about it seemed to view the whole situation as being an issue for the medical profession to sort itself out over. Issues such as what discouraged less privileged people from accessing their rightful healthcare provision seemed to be a central consideration for him at least.
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Thank you for all of the advice, and it’s been interesting reading the tangential stuff too!
I’ve sent on some things to him over the last few days and will give him a call later too. I was about to message my step-mum and she got in there first.
She managed to persuade him to book into the GP sooner and has managed to get an urgent (within 2 weeks) referral for a gastrointestinal specialist appointment.
A lot of things in here seem to have been along those lines, so hopefully it’s something they can diagnose quickly and he can get back to full health!
Thanks again for all of the responses, and hopefully I can update with a positive outcome soon!
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Hi James.
I'm an anaesthetic/intensive care doctor, so not at all a specialist in this area, and also in ICU we tend to see the worst-case scenarios rather than more common outcomes/presentations, so my view on things may be somewhat skewed.
It sounds like you and your step-mum have taken some really sensible steps in persuading him to push for further investigations, and I do think that the 2-week referral is appropriate at this stage.
For what it's worth, 8 weeks is not that long in terms of your body's recovery from a nasty bout of anything... Depending on the nature of his initial illness it may have been reasonable for the GP to give it a bit longer to see if it settled. (For example, after severe gastroenteritis it is not uncommon to get a degree of malabsorption for a few weeks which can give similar symptoms to what your dad has had.) Having said that, 8-12 weeks is definitely a bit of a turning point for symptoms being defined as "chronic" (ie longer lasting), and it's harder to put continued weight loss down to something that happened a couple of months ago.
I don't wish to alarm you, and the combination of symptoms your dad has could be due to any of a very long list of diseases, but the reason he's been referred within a 2-week window is because some of his symptoms can be signs of cancer. In fact - and this is for everyone else - given that one in three of us will get cancer at some point in our lives, if anyone over 60 develops new/unusual symptoms which last more than 4-6 weeks, cancer will almost often be somewhere near the top of the list of possibilities. I've just turned 40 and am increasingly considering myself as an "older adult" from this point of view, not least because my cousin recently got diagnosed (and successfully treated) with kidney cancer after a single episode of blood in his urine, having never in his life had that before, and being fit as a fiddle.
Cancer is a scary word, but that shouldn't prevent us from talking about it and raising awareness, because awareness genuinely saves lives.
I really hope your dad gets the answers and treatment he needs. Good luck and well done for advocating for him.
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She managed to persuade him to book into the GP sooner and has managed to get an urgent (within 2 weeks) referral for a gastrointestinal specialist appointment.
Brilliant, that's great to hear! Hopefully he gets a diagnosis soon and it's something easily fixable -- and if not, I hope it's at least something manageable.
I've got a friend who's had ulcerative colitis (one of the cluster of GI nasties like IBS and Crohn's and so forth) for many years, and it's not a bundle of laughs to have, but it can be treated and managed and he can get on with his life fine.
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Hi James.
I'm an anaesthetic/intensive care doctor, so not at all a specialist in this area, and also in ICU we tend to see the worst-case scenarios rather than more common outcomes/presentations, so my view on things may be somewhat skewed.
It sounds like you and your step-mum have taken some really sensible steps in persuading him to push for further investigations, and I do think that the 2-week referral is appropriate at this stage.
For what it's worth, 8 weeks is not that long in terms of your body's recovery from a nasty bout of anything... Depending on the nature of his initial illness it may have been reasonable for the GP to give it a bit longer to see if it settled. (For example, after severe gastroenteritis it is not uncommon to get a degree of malabsorption for a few weeks which can give similar symptoms to what your dad has had.) Having said that, 8-12 weeks is definitely a bit of a turning point for symptoms being defined as "chronic" (ie longer lasting), and it's harder to put continued weight loss down to something that happened a couple of months ago.
I don't wish to alarm you, and the combination of symptoms your dad has could be due to any of a very long list of diseases, but the reason he's been referred within a 2-week window is because some of his symptoms can be signs of cancer. In fact - and this is for everyone else - given that one in three of us will get cancer at some point in our lives, if anyone over 60 develops new/unusual symptoms which last more than 4-6 weeks, cancer will almost often be somewhere near the top of the list of possibilities. I've just turned 40 and am increasingly considering myself as an "older adult" from this point of view, not least because my cousin recently got diagnosed (and successfully treated) with kidney cancer after a single episode of blood in his urine, having never in his life had that before, and being fit as a fiddle.
Cancer is a scary word, but that shouldn't prevent us from talking about it and raising awareness, because awareness genuinely saves lives.
I really hope your dad gets the answers and treatment he needs. Good luck and well done for advocating for him.
Thanks for the post, Pete.
My dad mentioned it was a cancer referral after i posted, i hadn’t thought about that as an option before then (I’m a massive optimist and probably a bit head in the sand). You’re right that it’s good to talk about it though - and it was useful reading your post for more context.
Just had a good cry and I’ll call him tomorrow. Hopefully it’s nothing that serious…
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I don't wish to alarm you, and the combination of symptoms your dad has could be due to any of a very long list of diseases, but the reason he's been referred within a 2-week window is because some of his symptoms can be signs of cancer. In fact - and this is for everyone else - given that one in three of us will get cancer at some point in our lives, if anyone over 60 develops new/unusual symptoms which last more than 4-6 weeks, cancer will almost often be somewhere near the top of the list of possibilities. I've just turned 40 and am increasingly considering myself as an "older adult" from this point of view, not least because my cousin recently got diagnosed (and successfully treated) with kidney cancer after a single episode of blood in his urine, having never in his life had that before, and being fit as a fiddle.
Cancer is a scary word, but that shouldn't prevent us from talking about it and raising awareness, because awareness genuinely saves lives.
A timely post. As per the "one for the runners" post a while back about my sudden weight loss, looks like it might not be the gastroparesis the doc initially though. Had a CT scan which has shown a small lesion on my pancreas. Awaiting further appointments to see what the next steps are. Can confirm the advocacy bit - I had to push for the scan and if my brother hadn't died of cancer in his GI system I might not have got one. Anything unusual - get yourself checked. And do your poo on a stick test when it arrives. I'm nearly 55.
Anyone with any knowledge on what to expect, be great to hear.
(Apologies for the hijack James, but it is kind of relevant, good your dad is getting the attention he needs).
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I hope this comes back with less worrying results.
Good luck both.
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I don't wish to alarm you, and the combination of symptoms your dad has could be due to any of a very long list of diseases, but the reason he's been referred within a 2-week window is because some of his symptoms can be signs of cancer. In fact - and this is for everyone else - given that one in three of us will get cancer at some point in our lives, if anyone over 60 develops new/unusual symptoms which last more than 4-6 weeks, cancer will almost often be somewhere near the top of the list of possibilities. I've just turned 40 and am increasingly considering myself as an "older adult" from this point of view, not least because my cousin recently got diagnosed (and successfully treated) with kidney cancer after a single episode of blood in his urine, having never in his life had that before, and being fit as a fiddle.
Cancer is a scary word, but that shouldn't prevent us from talking about it and raising awareness, because awareness genuinely saves lives.
A timely post. As per the "one for the runners" post a while back about my sudden weight loss, looks like it might not be the gastroparesis the doc initially though. Had a CT scan which has shown a small lesion on my pancreas. Awaiting further appointments to see what the next steps are. Can confirm the advocacy bit - I had to push for the scan and if my brother hadn't died of cancer in his GI system I might not have got one. Anything unusual - get yourself checked. And do your poo on a stick test when it arrives. I'm nearly 55.
Anyone with any knowledge on what to expect, be great to hear.
(Apologies for the hijack James, but it is kind of relevant, good your dad is getting the attention he needs).
Hope all the results are favourable, Chris.
And hijack away - it would be good for me to read as well as I’m going over worst case scenarios in my head without any knowledge of what actually happens.
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Remember, a doctor isn’t just for treating ill health, but also for perpetuating existing systems of social inequality and hierarchy!
what?
General poorer outcomes for women, ethnic minorities, lower income people. Diseases which mostly affect women get much worse treatment (I know, I have one!). Women’s pain getting taken less seriously or symptoms being psychologised rather than treated. Sometimes presenting a doctor with a thing they don’t understand is dangerous for the patient, as it upsets the authority and hence social standing of the doctor.
If this sounds weird or extreme then you are lucky, bask in it.
Whilst it is true that medical and social care has inherent biases in it, that is more a reflection of wider society than it is a reflection of the efforts of medical professionals, many of whom actively work against those biases. I think saying doctors are there to perpetuate those biases is rather misguided. Doctors are often trying to correct those biases. I worked in the area of healthcare feedback and development so I saw both some pretty awful and also some pretty incredible outcomes of patient experience but almost every NHS Trust I ever dealt with were all aware of the biases and trying to do something about them.
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Another tangent. I was reflecting this thread perfectly demonstrates what an amazing cross section of people use this forum, and how open and supportive they are. On the climbing community as a whole I wonder if the same rings true about climbers as a whole, and whether it always will?
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Have you ever been on UKC or the Supertopo forum? Agree the support on here is great.
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I’m perfectly happy to discuss long covid on here, on UKC it’s usually not worth the effort.
Also, James - good luck with your dad’s care. My mum had cancer and obviously at the time it was very distressing but she made a full recovery and had many good years after her treatment.
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Have you ever been on UKC or the Supertopo forum? Agree the support on here is great.
If you remember, I used to be pretty active on UKC back when you were, it was ok back then, but I wouldn't touch it now. Maybe that's the changing face of UK climbing. It does feel most people on here are older school.
My only experience of US climbing culture is through Widefetish.com. also old school, but definitely more self focused
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I remember. It was a fun and new experience.
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Had a CT scan which has shown a small lesion on my pancreas. Awaiting further appointments to see what the next steps are.
Update if anyone is interested. Consultant sent a letter saying it's just a small cyst / IPMN and no cause for concern. Which is obviously a relief, and good news as it's not serious, but something is still up with my digestive system and I don't know what.
Hope your dad is doing OK James.
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Great to hear Chris.
Hope you manage to bottom out (sorry couldn't resist) the gut issues
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Had all the jokes already! Next step is back to doc I guess. In spite of eating as usual by weight is still dropping. Not as fast as it was, but still falling off.
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Great to hear the spooky CT pancreas thing turned out OK.
And best wishes with sorting your gut out.
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Thanks
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Had a CT scan which has shown a small lesion on my pancreas. Awaiting further appointments to see what the next steps are.
Update if anyone is interested. Consultant sent a letter saying it's just a small cyst / IPMN and no cause for concern. Which is obviously a relief, and good news as it's not serious, but something is still up with my digestive system and I don't know what.
Hope your dad is doing OK James.
Hope that you get your issues sorted, Chris. But good to know that something has been ruled out at least!
My dad is still losing weight, but saw a Gastroenterologist a week or so ago. He then had a CT scan on Monday and has an Endoscopy tomorrow. Hopefully the CT results will come back next week and tomorrow’s should be instant.
The gastroenterologist also noticed he had bad Thrush, which when serious enough can apparently have similar symptoms to what he has been having. He is being treated for that and after 4 days of having a bad reaction to the medication, he had a pain free night. So maybe that’s something…
Hopefully everything will be more clear in the coming week. Or at least some things may be ruled out…
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Sounds potentially positive at least.
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Sounds potentially positive at least.
Hope was shattered today by a stage 4 pancreatic cancer diagnosis. Thanks for all of the advice on this thread. It’s weird how a load strangers can be so important for support! Time to go and spend some time with my dad…
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Oh fuck. I'm so, so sorry.
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Shit that’s bad. I hope you can get some quality time with your dad.
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Time to go and spend some time with my dad…
That's such an inspiring response from you. Best wishes through it all.
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All the very best James.
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Time to go and spend some time with my dad…
That's such an inspiring response from you. Best wishes through it all.
It seems like the only thing to do now. Nothing that’s happened can be changed, and it is up to him to decide on a treatment plan that he’s happy with.
He never expected to be a dad, and now he’s got an 8 week old granddaughter. So it’s important for him to spend more time with her, get to know her, and maybe (if he wants) try to work out how he can be a part of her future (maybe write some future birthday cards, get lots of photos, find out what he was looking forward to and make sure we fulfil those - I’m sure he’d have take her to a Blackburn game, for example).
And also for me to get to know more about him and his life. I’m sure there’s loads of stories that I’ve never heard.
All of this stuff seems like the most important stuff in the world now. Just try to help him, and me, find some peace and closure.
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All the best, James. Hope you're ok.
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Time to go and spend some time with my dad…
Yes, go be there for him, and for yourself.
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Really sorry to hear that James. All the best, look after yourself.
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Oh James, I don't really know what to write, I'm just so sorry for you. Despite the massive cliche, what you say is absolutely right, make the very most of your time together.
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Very sorry to read this James.
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Really sorry to hear this James.
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Gutted to hear this, James. It sounds like you've already got a good grasp of the priorities going forward. If you need any help making sense of any medical advice you guys get in the weeks/months ahead, feel free to DM me.
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So sorry to read this James.
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Gutted to hear this, James. It sounds like you've already got a good grasp of the priorities going forward. If you need any help making sense of any medical advice you guys get in the weeks/months ahead, feel free to DM me.
Thanks, Pete. And everyone else. Still doesn’t seem real.
Biopsies are next week to work out what chemo could help, then the Oncologist to discuss options. I guess by that point there will be a better idea of how things are looking.
I’ve only had some texts with him as he’s not up for any calls or visitors yet. So not sure what he already knows yet. But hopefully he’ll be home from hospital today and i can go across soon.
It seems crass to say it now, but I’m definitely going to need advice on inheritance though, if anyone can recommend someone to speak to. It worries me a lot as, due to all sorts of history/reasons, I will get all of his assets (which isnt loads) including the house, but my step mum can live there as long as she wants. It feels like it could get very messy if I essentially become an indefinite landlord and I’ve no idea what the implications would be. It is something i would really like to get to grips with whilst there is time to discuss things and even make changes if needed.
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Hi James, that doesn't sound too dissimilar to my grandads situation. When he died last year, he and his partner had agreed that whoever survived the other would continue living in the house. If it's potentially useful I can ask my dad how it was set up and the practicalities of it legally speaking and see if there's anything useful for you there. Drop me a DM if so.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's crass at all. It's important; the less stress you have the better and it's worth discussing it with your dad and step mum.
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It seems crass to say it now, but I’m definitely going to need advice on inheritance though,
It’s not crass, it’s responsible. I’ve been an executor, getting advice is the right thing to do. A solicitor will have an initial chat with you before any chargeable work. I wish you well.
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My wife’s mum died just before Christmas, she had been diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer in July and chose not to have treatment other than pain relief.One of things we should have sorted out was power of attorney as her mum wanted to pay for her funeral before she died. However when she wrote a check for this the bank wouldn’t except the it because the signature was so shaky. She was in hospital at the time.
My wife and one of her cousins were executors for her mums estate but in reality my wife has done it all. It’s just come through that everything is sorted so now she can give everyone what they have been willed and now sell her mums house.
I would talk to your dad about getting the McMillan nurses involved as the nurse who supported my MiL was fantastic. My MiL was admitted to a local community hospital and told she would end her days there as they did palliative care however she rallied but was unable to be cared for home so had to go in to a care home at £1010 a week and pay for this out of her assets.
Within a week the McMillan nurse sorted out the funding and she was no longer self funding.
This might be a bit rambling but I hope there are things you can use.
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I would recommend everyone with elderly parents to at least consider getting power of attorney. Sometimes things can go downhill and it makes life very much easier.
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James, I'm so sorry for you.
I would recommend that everyone with dependents / long term partners gets power of attorney. There are 2 different ones, for (i) health and welfare and (ii) property and financial affairs.
Note: being married does not (as I understand it) confer that. My wife's a doctor and at the start of covid we did power of attorney for each other (in our 30s) as doctors otherwise would not necessarily take our opinions into consideration if the other were in a coma for example.
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Really sorry to hear this news even though I have never met you personally. I had similar news about my own father nearly 10 years ago now (cancer that presented as a sudden brain tumour). Living at home and helping to care for him (and emotionally supporting my mum) it was a difficult time however I am so glad that I got those 11 months with him.
All I would say is take care of yourself and those around you as well as your dad. I very nearly messed up some relationships (one with my now wife) due to the situation.
Also Macmillan nurses are definitely worth contacting, also I would recommend doing it sooner rather than later, we put it off for too long (probably due to it all making it feel too real) and it would have been much better if we had involved them sooner.
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Fuck. Once again. cancer is a bitch. So sorry to hear this James. Make the most of your time with him.
Plus, after biopsies etc confirming what we suspected, my father in law starts RT for throat cancer next week. From what I've read, it looks like he is in for a bumpy ride. Non-smoker, looks like the cancer started from the site of a botched tonsil removal in his youth.
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Thanks again for the replies and advice. He is still processing things so I haven’t managed to speak to him yet (other than the odd text), which is hard, but I am sure I will get to soon…
He has been referred to MacMillan by the hospital and they will take up that support.
Sorry to hear that as well Chris. Fucking cancer.
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Hey James, I’ve just seen this thread and just want to add how sorry I am to read all of this. It sounds like a real shock given how well he was. It sounds like you have the best approach in a terrible situation.
I’d echo what everyone else has said about having conversations/making arrangements early. What you are trying to do is understand everyone’s wishes and what they want to happen. In this country we are often reluctant to have conversations about wishes at the time of serious illness, or at the end of life, and you can end up regretting those missed conversations. Having them before can add some comfort from knowing you’ve respected what your loved one wanted.
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We ended up having a chat last night, which was really nice. It was just like our normal talks, but just with some cancer and inheritance chat thrown in. It was so normal that neither of us shed a tear, though I am sure they will come when we see each other in person.
It was nice to remember that he is just the same person that he was when we spoke a few days before the diagnosis. In my mind I’d already gone to the end of life stage, which is actually the main reason why he is reluctant to tell people until he has his biopsies and results back. He feels like himself still and doesn’t want people to project an image on to him or treat him any differently.
Whilst he hates the timing of it he is, and has always thought like this, glad it is something like this rather than a long drawn out battle with dementia or similar, which he has watched parents and siblings go through and struggle with.
He has also been using the weekend to sort out finances etc (which he is incredibly on top of anyway) so my step mum knows what everything costs, and he is putting money aside for her to supplement any pension income to help her. So they are talking about that, and including me, which is a big load off my mind.
Maybe a bit details overload but it’s really helped me chatting to him - I even enjoyed eating for the first time in a few days after feeling like I could throw up at any point. Thanks again for all the messages on here too.
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My dad just phoned me with a question about Inheritance Taxes and asked me to look into it… He is in full ducks in a row mode at the moment.
He thinks his estate wouldn’t be subject to IHT. Main residence is < £175k and Other Assets (pension and cash) are < £325k which look to be the thresholds.
Once he knows a bit more, he would like to start transferring some money to people whilst he still has control of it. It would make him feel better knowing part of it is sorted.
There is a £3000 annual gift allowance. If you go over that and die within 7 years, tax can be due. He is unsure whether it would be taxed in his case.
Say he sent me a cash gift now, which was over £3000. Then he died but the remaining estate value, plus the gift value, was still under the £325k threshold. Would any tax be due on the gift, or is it non-taxable?
Before I try and scour the web or ask a solicitor, I thought I may as well ask here.
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Not a solicitor or accountant, but have looked into this to a moderate degree.
I think there's be no IHT.
1) The gift would be liable for IHT but gets calculated on the total estate. So if under no IHT.
https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/death-and-bereavement/gifts-and-exemptions-from-inheritance-tax
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-inheritance-tax-due-on-gifts
2) Defined contribution pension would be IHT free
https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension-death-benefits
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I would recommend googling Martin Lewis on this James, I learned a lot recently watching/reading his stuff. From a quick read I also think tk is correct but I may well be wrong.
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Not a solicitor or accountant, but have looked into this to a moderate degree.
I think there's be no IHT.
1) The gift would be liable for IHT but gets calculated on the total estate. So if under no IHT.
https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/death-and-bereavement/gifts-and-exemptions-from-inheritance-tax
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-inheritance-tax-due-on-gifts
2) Defined contribution pension would be IHT free
https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension-death-benefits
Thank you - I’d found the money helper website, but hadn’t noticed this part on the gov.uk one before:
Gifts use up the £325,000 tax free allowance first. Any unused threshold left after this can be used by the estate of the person who died.
I hadn’t known about the defined Contribution pension being tax free either. Also it sounds like, pending prognosis (if expectancy is < 12 months), he may be eligible to withdraw his full DC pension tax free if he wanted to.
I think my step mum can inherit half of his Additional State Pension too from what I’ve read which will be a welcome boost for her I’m sure. This, with her state pension and PIP, should mean she is more than fine which is a big relief for us all.
I’ll look through MSE too, it’s always a really useful source of information.
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He should be able to take his whole pot tax free if he has that prognosis, he'd need to provide signed correspondence from a Doctor confirming so and then it'd be reviewed by the Scheme Trustees, and it is Scheme Dependent, but it is possible. It isn't automatic though so he'd need to get in touch ASAP to start the process
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He should be able to take his whole pot tax free if he has that prognosis, he'd need to provide signed correspondence from a Doctor confirming so and then it'd be reviewed by the Scheme Trustees, and it is Scheme Dependent, but it is possible. It isn't automatic though so he'd need to get in touch ASAP to start the process
Cheers - he doesn’t actually have a prognosis yet, that should come later this month. Though looking at online one-year survival rates are very low. Fucking cancer.
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One item of advice if you decide to go down the treatment path. This was 5 years ago (so others may have more recent knowledge). I was advised to be prepared to travel a long way for the first treatment. Once you've had the first treatment you're in the system and they commit to the scheduling of the remaining course. We took my Dad a long way for his first but after that he was able to get the remainder more locally. Best of luck with everything.
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Wrong thread.
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Had a really nice time with Dad on Saturday. Obviously there was some sad chat, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen him smile as much as when he had his granddaughter on his lap for a while.
Luckily she was on top form and I got to see what a natural he was! It is sad to know it won’t last forever, but hopefully we can do plenty more of the same!
Despite everything, it was possibly one of the nicest times I’ve had there.